Jim Root

James At present I am learning more and more about this John Hurt. The information is flowing and I am just starting to digest it as bits and pieces come in. Let me also say that I hit many dead ends in my research and have sometimes jumped the gun in writting only to find a conflicting piece of information that comes from a source closer to Hurt himself. For example I was told that Hurt moved to New York upon retirement from the NSA in August of 1963. I have now learned that he and his wife actually planned to travel in France for a year before settling down in New York. Once source suggests that he died of heart failure in 1966 and had health issues prior to his retirement. This has not been confirmed by my other sources at this time. I want to remind readers that I came upon this person while researching Edwin Walker and Maxwell Taylor. I have no proof that he is the John Hurt that Oswald attempted to contact after the assassination of JFK. His apperance in this forum may just be a coincidence of name and association although the events surrounding my "discovery" of this person makes me feel he MAY be a character of interest in the assassination drama. James, connecting Harrod Miller to this John Hurt and your suggestion of an association between Miller and Max Taylor is just another puzzle piece that I find interesting. With this said, John B. Hurt (of the NSA) is a person that does deserve a place in history and it intrigues me that his name has seemingly been erased from the official records.... One could suggest that perhaps this is because his name could be associated with the "Raleigh Call" and the NSA. I have learned that this John Hurt was the person who translated the first part of the December 6, 1941 Message from the Japanese Foreign Ministry to their Ambassador in Washington (the message that was supposed to lead to a declaration of war before the attack on Pearl Harbor, because we knew the contents of the message we did not allow the declaration to be delivered until after the attack was completed). While he may have played a minor role, in some ways, this was perhaps the beginning of the single most significant event of US History in the 20th Century. He seems to have been an American hero whose work was never declassified during his lifetime. John Bartrum Hurt seems to be a man who served his country without attaining fame, fortune or distinction but whose work did in fact help the United States survive a perilous time in history. Jim Root

Shanet We can in fact associate Harrod Miller with John B. Hurt using a historical picture that places Miller with Friedman's group of crytographers while specifically stating that Hurt is missing from the picture. On the other hand I have learned that in the speeches made at Hurt's retirement from the NSA in August of 1963 it was stated that he had never been to the orient dispite his fluency in Japanese and interest in the history of Japan. Jim Root

Mark I can never pass up an opportunity to imput MAj. Gen. Edwin Walker into a string on this forum. Marshall Sylvester Carter was a classmate of Edwin Walker's at West Point 1927 - 1931. They attended the Accademy the same four years that Maxwell Taylor was a language instructor. This group of cadets seem to have followed the dynamic rise of Taylor into the most powerful positions in the US Military. Coincidence? Jim Root

For those of you looking for Japanese linguist John B. Hurt I have now identified him as John Bartrum Hurt. Retired from the NSA in August 1963. Died at age 62 in 1966. He NOW has his picture in the NSA museum with a few facts associated with his very interesting work attached. It seems he relocted to New York in August 1963 after his retirement from the NSA. I have not been able to place where he was living at the time of his retirement. It is interesting that in November of 1963 Lee Harvey Oswald may have had trouble trying to locate a person by the same name. I continue to search for more infromation about this mans life. Jim Root

Over the last several weeks/months I have successfully located information surrounding Japanese linguist John B. Hurt. I understand full well that he may have no other association to the assassination than the unusual coincidence that his name cooresponds to the name of a person Oswald apparently tried to contact while in custody after the assassination. My best lead was provided by a Historian with the National Security Agency and has led me to some people with a more indepth knowledge of this J B Hurt. What has become interesting is that it seems my emails are being monitored. Each email, when sent, receives this message (the XXXXXXXXXXXX are mine to protect this source from being overloaded with additional inquires): Your message with Subject: Re: XXXXXXXX Genealogy Question could not be delivered to the following recipients: XXXXXXXXXXXX.net Please do not resend your original message. Delivery attempts will continue to be made for 5 day(s). What is interesting is that each time the messages are then delivered after a several day delay and I receive responses to my queries. I now know that this John Hurt continued to work for the NSA until August 1963 when he retired (died 1966, age 62) and relocated to New York. Apart from JFK research would the fact that he was working for the NSA 42 years ago generate interest in watching who was researching this man? Jim Root

James I just received this infromation from an NSA historian reguarding Harrod Miller. Your statement, "Interesting how one can just find there way into a group picture of top secret codebreakers." seems to be confirmed in some ways. On the other hand it does confirm that Miller was in fact with military intelligence. I'm still interested in who the "nobody" was and how he is associated with Maxwell Taylor. Seems the NSA is mum on this one. "Jim: I have almost nothing on Miller. He was a Signal Corps trainee with the Signals Intelligence Service, and had field assignments before the war. Other than that, just a notation that he was a colonel during the war. Sorry I can' be more helpful. Dave JIM ROOT wrote: > > I appreciate the help that you provided while I have been researching John B. Hurt and Friedman's group of WWII era codebreakers. > > Another person working with Friedman's group of cryptographers was Captain Harrod Miller. I know that Miller was involved with Signals Intelligence by 1930 while stationed in Panama and that he joined Friedman's codebreakers by the late 1930's. Beyond that I have found little infromation and I hope that you can help me out once again with as much biographical detail as possible (as well as how he became associated with this group and how long he stayed with the NSA). > > Thank you once again for your time and patients. > > Jim Root > History Teacher

Pat Dimestore psychology perhaps but hey that is what we all are engaging in on this board as we speculate on the mindset of the various personalities that surround the assasination of JFK. The Ruby question is one that I avoided for years while I attempted to develop or rather follow my original hypothisis dealing with the assassination. Originally I felt that if I considered Ruby as a part of a conspiracy from the begining I would be prejudicing my research. It was not until I became convinced that there was some sort of conspiracy that Ruby's actions could be explained. My hypothisis has taken me back, more than thiry years before the assassination, and forward again in the lives of the very few people that I believe were involed in pre assassination antics that led to the assassination of JFK and the coverup of the assassination. Ruby has been a stumbling block in every consistant facet, in my opinion, except where it comes to his religion. If there was a need to eliminate Oswald because of his connection to US intelligence then there was a need for Ruby. There was a need for somebody that could not be traced to US intelligence but could be traced to to other tangible conspirators such as organized crime and the Cubans. In this wasy he would serve the duel purpose of eliminating Oswald and deflecting suspicion from the actual plotters. "Jim, in trying to understand Ruby's obsessive concern that a malevolent force was out to get the Jews, and his worry that his actions had somehow fed into it" One of my former students recently returned from a year of "front line" duty in Iraq. He is a very good friend of my oldest son and we are very close to the family. This nice boy, that I taught in school, was involved in the killing of many enemy combatants. I can imagine Ruby (an honest human being with all his own faults) sitting in a Dallas jail questioning if what he did was right, wondering why he had been chosen (fate or otherwise) to be in the position he was in. This "nice boy" was changed by the events of his life. He has become withdrawn and is a different person.......he is not a little boy any longer. Did the same happen to Ruby after he shot Oswald? It is easy for me to accept that it could. But that is "dimestore psychology." Jim Root

Robert, Tim, John IMO understanding Angleton's position whithin the panaramma of the assassination picture is an essential area of research. Let me briefly sketch out some thoughts on the subject. Angleton became OSS station chief in Italy at a time when the State Department and the military where developing programs for civilian control of occupied territories. John J. McCloy was the leading player for Secretary Stimson (and under whom the OSS was positioned on the flow chart). Maxwell Taylor was also involved as a negotiator with Italian politicians in this program. Angleton was maintained in an intelligence position as the OSS was disbanded by Truman at the end of WWII. John J. McCloy was the person transfroming the WWII OSS into the 1948 NSC and CIA and would be a key player in maintaining Angleton within the organization. Angleton's role in CI during the early years of the Cold War alowed him to have access to the most closely guarded intelligence secrets our country maintained. Angleton was involved in the "mail opening program" that became fully opperational by 1956 and remained a steadfast proponent of the program (LHO's letter to the SWP may have been read by this program in 1956, IMO, subjecting the rest of Oswald's life, from that point on, to careful scrutiny in relationship to Angleton). In light of the above paragraph any CI advantage that could have been gained by the downing of the U-2 on May 1st 1960 (Japanese Communist/Socialist Party infiltration, WS 117 program advancement, failure of the Paris Summit, election of JFK to the presidency, etc.) would tie Angleton and Oswald together. Angleton's refusal to accept Nosenko's "bonifieds" becomes not only understandable but more than reasonable IF Oswald was in fact an unknowing agent that had been tracked and used by Angleton since 1956! Only if Angleton knew this would he be certain that Nosenko's mission from Moscow would clearly be disinformation (this would be true even if Nosenko did not know that his infomation was disinformation). Angleton would be more than justified in believing that there was a conspiracy to assassinate JFK IF in fact Oswald had been/was being used by US intelligence agencies. It would not be resonable to think that James Jesus Angleton would not believe anything else! Imagine for a moment; if Angleton could not figure out who or what group had killed Kennedy.......it might have driven him "nuts." Jim Root

John Can you site the references for this information? Jim Root

Checking the dates add Francis Gary Powers. Jim Root

If you want to know what Allen Dulles, James Angelton, Thomas Karamessines and Richard Helms were up to during the period 1953 – 1965 you can find information in the following 122 page report. But before reading the following information recall that on October 3, 1956, a few weeks before his 17th birthday, Lee Harvey Oswald wrote a letter to the Socialist Party of America based in New York City: Dear Sirs: I am sixteen years of age and would like more information about your youth League, I would like to know if there is a branch in my area, how to join, etc., I am a Marxist, and have been studying socialist principles for well over fifteen months I am very interested in your Y.P.S.L. Sincerely Lee Oswald Three weeks later, Oswald enlisted in the Marines. Final Report Of The Select Committee To Study Governmental Operations with respect to Intelligence Activities United States Senate: April 23, 1976. The report begins with these words: “Between 1940 and 1973, two agencies of the federal government – the CIA and the FBI – covertly and illegally opened and photographed first class letter mail within the United States.” (pg 1) “The CIA conducted four mail opening programs in four cities within the United States for varying lengths of time between 1953 and 1973. New York (1953-1973); San Francisco (four separate occasions, each of one to three weeks duration, between 1969 and 1971); New Orleans (three weeks in 1957) ; and Hawaii (late 1954 – late 1955).” (pg 5) “Director Allen Dulles and Richard Helms, then Chief of Operations in the Plans Directorate, met with the Postmaster General and the Chief Postal Inspector, David Stephens, on May 17, 1954.” (pg 9) “The CIA Staff Take-Over: "More" Mail Opening. -- In November 1955, James Angleton, the Chief of the Counterintelligence (CI) Staff, submitted a proposal to Richard Helms for the further expansion of the New York mail intercept project. Until then, the CIA was only receiving access to a portion of the United States-Soviet Union mail in its New York facility; Angleton recommended that "we gain access to all mail traffic to and from the U.S.S.R. which enters, departs, or transits the United States through the Port of New York." He also suggested that the "raw information acquired be recorded, indexed and analyzed and various components of the Agency furnished items of information which would appear to be helpful to their respective missions." Perhaps most significantly, he recommended a shift in the focus of the project from photographing the mail to opening it.” (pg 9) “This proposal was approved by Helms on December 7, and funds were authorized by the Acting Deputy Director for Plans on March 3, 1956.” (pg 9) “The only written approvals for the project as it subsequently developed during Dulles' tenure appear to be those of Richard Helms and the Acting Deputy Director for Plans. In December 1955, Helms approved the concept as outlined by James Angleton” While it is unclear whether Dulles was ever informed about the laboratory, he was apparently at least made aware of the fact that mail was being opened. In May 1956, he received a memorandum from James Angleton in which Angleton noted that "for some time selected openings have been conducted and the contents examined." (pg 18) “When the first request for formal approval had been submitted to Helms in November 1955, a branch chief of the CI staff suggested to, James Angleton that "in view of the sensitivity of this project, steps should be taken to have this proposed project approved by the Director without recourse to the normal channels for presentation of projects." (pg 19) “Even James Angleton, the project's strongest supporter and, as Chief of the CI Staff, the official most directly responsible for its operation, testified that his understanding of its legality was simply: "That it was illegal." When asked how he could rationalize conducting a program he believed to be illegal, he answered that in his opinion, the project's benefit to the national security outweighed legal considerations.” (pg 38) By 1965 Thomas Karamessines was Richard Helms point man in covering up this project “In 1965, the Long Subcommittee hearings on the use of mail covers and other investigative techniques by federal agencies caused the Agency serious concern about possible Congressional discovery and revelation of the project. It is noted above that in September 1965, as a result of this concern, CIA officials briefly considered informing Postmaster General Gronouski of the project. When this proposal was rejected, presumably because Gronouski had cooperated extensively with the Subcommittee, Thomas Karamessines, then Acting Deputy Director for Plans, "suggested that, in his opinion, the President would be more inclined to go along with the idea of the operation." Karamessines "gave instructions that steps should be taken to arrange to pass through McGeorge Bundy to the President after the Subcommittee has completed its investigation." (pg 30) “Three years later, the Long Subcommittee's investigation was believed to increase the risk of project exposure. An internal CIA memorandum dated April 23, 1965, states: Mr. Karamessines [Assistant Deputy Director for Plans] felt that the dangers inherent in Long's subcommittee activities to the security of the Project's operations in New York should be thoroughly studied in order that a determination can be made as to whether these operations should be partially or fully suspended until the subcommittee's investigations are completed. (pgs 40 & 41) In one document we bring together Allen Dulles, Richard Helms, James Jesus Angelton and Thomas Karamessines. We also show that Oswald’s letter to the Socialist Workers Party would have placed him, at minimum, on a “Watch List” of the CIA and perhaps was opened and read by some of the same people that would be monitoring his movements before the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Was the CIA aware of Oswald as early as 1956? We can not discount the possibility! We have only recently learned that Oswald's movements were being monitored by Richard Helms and Thomas Karamessines in the months preceeding the assassination of JFK. No one has extablished the date when this attention began being directed toward Oswald. While it would seem obvious that a returned defector would be of interest to the CIA, the level to which the information on Oswald was directed suggests more than just a casual interest that began with his return to the US. If Oswald was in fact on a “Watch List” in 1956 it would seem unlikely that he would be given the security clearances necessary to work on the U-2 while in the Marines, unless of course the “agency” had other plans for him. The Watch List: “Letters were selected for opening by two basic methods: (1) on the basis of a list of names known as the "Watch List," and (2) randomly. By one CIA estimate, the "Watch List" accounted for approximately 25% of the total volume of mail that was opened; random selection for 75%.” (pg 11) “The Watch List. -- The Watch List originated in the mid-1950's, at which time it consisted of only ten to twenty names. With the SR Division, the CI Staff, the Office of Security, and the FBI all contributing names to the list it grew rapidly, however: by the end of the project the Watch List totaled about 600 names.” (pg 12) Within a short time, the Watch List had expanded far beyond these relatively narrow and well-defined categories. The names of individuals who were in contact with Watch Listed persons and organizations were frequently added to the list themselves, and, as an August 1961 memorandum points out, a very large percentage of the names on the list were placed there because of "leads which came about through the random selection." (pgs 11 & 12) We find the same names of the same people swirling around this mail opening program as we associated with the assassination of JFK. Coincidence? Jim Root

All When I read "Sabotage at Black Tom" (a historical accout of Germany's secret war in America 1914 -1917 and the case that brought John J. McCloy to the American intelligence community) I was surprized to learn that British Intelligence, in 1900, was tracking every person who entered or exited a British port world wide. Intelligence is the lifeblood of power just as intelligence is the lifeblood of national survival. Americans naiavity in the years 1920 - 1939 in intelligence almost led to the end of democracy and the worldwide triumph of Fascism. I guess we get to pick our poison. Jim Root

Tim While I read with interest many of your posts I find myself having an alternative opinion for two of the ideas you suggest in this string. "Anyone, I think, who argues that LHO was linked to a US intelligence agency, whether CIA or military intelligence, makes the case that exculpates anyone from our side who knew his true role. One does not use one's own agent as a "patsy"." I do argue that Oswald was linked to a US intelligence agency and believe that it is just for that reason that so many agencies and persons lined up to profer for the coverup. How could any US intelligence agency say to the American public that, on one hand, Oswald was one of our agents but, on the other hand, we had nothing to do with the assassination? He becomes the perfect "patsy" that assures a coverup will be supported by the government. I will go one step further and say that I believe that Oswald was what James Angleton discribed in the "the orchid man" article. An "insect" that could spread the pollen necessary to perpetuate the species without actually knowing what they were doing. Oswald, when entering Russia, followed the exact directions for entry (memos of Sept. 4, 1959 and Oct. 9, 1959) provided by the American Abassador in the Helsinki. Those two dates are connected to Oswald's application for his passport (Sept. 4) in Anaheim, CA and his bascktracking travel from France to England then to Finland (Oct. 8 & 9, 1959) suggesting an intelligence connection. The November 4th Hosty note and the newly discovered information that Oswald's movements were monitored by the highest echelons of the CIA prior to the assassination suggest that the selection of the motorcade route, a decission made in Washington not Cuba, put the President in harms way. "The murder of LHO by Ruby makes Ruby the single person that everyone can agree was involved in the conspiracy. Interestingly, there exists some evidence linking Ruby to Communism as well as to Cuba. But Ruby's role can be explained merely by his link to Santo Trafficante, Jr." I agree with the premise stated but can provide an alternative conclusion suggesting "there exists some evidence linking Ruby to" Israeli intelligence. While on the surface a link to Trafficante provides a convincing cover for the propriator of a "strip joint" it is Ruby's Jewish religion that seems to be the one consistant factor in his life. Thirty days of prayer after the death of his father, attendance at Jewish services befor going to the DPD, unidentified men he entered the DPD with, admission that he was acting as an interpeter for the Israeli press, lie detector inconsistancies, desire to go to Washington to tell the "truth" all could point to a connection to Israeli intelligence. One can only imagine the advantages that could be gained by Israeli intelligence if they could silence a "rouge" agent for the US or for both Russia and the US. Both super powers would become indebted to them. (James Jesus Angleton was the CIA laison to Israeli intelligence) Just different thoughts, Jim Root

Charles Do not leave out Thomas Karamessines who had worked in the office of Richard Helms and was monitoring the movements of Oswald in the months before the assassination. Died at his vacation retreat in Canada just before he was scheduled to testify (heart attack I believe). Jim Root

I tend to agree with some of the remarks made by Mark Knight. The association of General Maxwell Taylor with Maj. Gen. Edwin Walker has been researched by myself for years and leads me to suggest that Taylor is a key suspect. Taylor would have the motive (extention of his own power, his war in Vietnam, loss of prestige within the administration, feelings of ingratitude on the part of Kennedy, etc.). Taylor would have had the method (the ability to manipulate the motorcade route, knowledge of Oswald, his work location and his attempted assassination of Walker, as well as access to the "black opps" apparatus). Taylor would have had the ability to plan the type of opperation that could be carried off and covered up (as the leader of the most powerful military force in the world, Taylor would be structurally able to move and place the right people in the right places without question and as part of his normal duties). Taylor would be at the head of his own intelligence organization that would have the ability to manipulate the investigation (military intelligence would limit access to information about Oswald and would leagally destroy that infromation). Taylor would have the experience necessary to plan and execute an assassination coup with confidence in his own ability to succeed, (from World War II, post war Italy, Greece, South America, Central America, Korea and just days before the assassination of Kennedy an assassination in Southeast Asia). It could be argued that Taylor was good at it! Jim Root

Shanet I think you will like this information. If you want to know what Thomas Karamessines and Richard Helms were up to during the period 1953 – 1965 you can find information in the following 122 page report. But before reading the following information recall that on October 3, 1956, a few weeks before his 17th birthday, Lee Harvey Oswald wrote a letter to the Socialist Party of America based in New York City: Dear Sirs: I am sixteen years of age and would like more information about your youth League, I would like to know if there is a branch in my area, how to join, etc., I am a Marxist, and have been studying socialist principles for well over fifteen months I am very interested in your Y.P.S.L. Sincerely Lee Oswald Three weeks later, Oswald enlisted in the Marines. Final Report Of The Select Committee To Study Governmental Operations with respect to Intelligence Activities United States Senate: April 23, 1976. The report begins with these words: “Between 1940 and 1973, two agencies of the federal government – the CIA and the FBII – covertly and illegally opened and photographed first class letter mail within the United States.” (pg 1) “The CIA conducted four mail opening programs in four cities within the United States for varying lengths of time between 1953 and 1973. New York (1953-1973); San Francisco (four separate occasions, each of one to three weeks duration, between 1969 and 1971); New Orleans (three weeks in 1957) ; and Hawaii (late 1954 – late 1955).” (pg 5) “Director Allen Dulles and Richard Helms, then Chief of Operations in the Plans Directorate, met with the Postmaster General and the Chief Postal Inspector, David Stephens, on May 17, 1954.” (pg 9) “The CI Staff Take-Over: "More" Mail Opening. -- In November 1955, James Angleton, the Chief of the Counterintelligence (CI) Staff, submitted a proposal to Richard Helms for the further expansion of the New York mail intercept project. Until then, the CIA was only receiving access to a portion of the United States-Soviet Union mail in its New York facility; Angleton recommended that "we gain access to all mail traffic to and from the U.S.S.R. which enters, departs, or transits the United States through the Port of New York." He also suggested that the "raw information acquired be recorded, indexed and analyzed and various components of the Agency furnished items of information which would appear to be helpful to their respective missions." Perhaps most significantly, he recommended a shift in the focus of the project from photographing the mail to opening it.” (pg 9) “This proposal was approved by Helms on December 7, and funds were authorized by the Acting Deputy Director for Plans on March 3, 1956.” (pg 9) “The only written approvals for the project as it subsequently developed during Dulles' tenure appear to be those of Richard Helms and the Acting Deputy Director for Plans. In December 1955, Helms approved the concept as outlined by James Angleton” While it is unclear whether Dulles was ever informed about the laboratory, he was apparently at least made aware of the fact that mail was being opened. In May 1956, he received a memorandum from James Angleton in which Angleton noted that "for some time selected openings have been conducted and the contents examined." (pg 18) “When the first request for formal approval had been submitted to Helms in November 1955, a branch chief of the CI staff suggested to, James Angleton that "in view of the sensitivity of this project, steps should be taken to have this proposed project approved by the Director without recourse to the normal channels for presentation of projects." (pg 19) “Even James Angleton, the project's strongest supporter and, as Chief of the CI Staff, the official most directly responsible for its operation, testified that his understanding of its legality was simply: "That it was illegal." When asked how he could rationalize conducting a program he believed to be illegal, he answered that in his opinion, the project's benefit to the national security outweighed legal considerations.” (pg 38) By 1965 Thomas Karamessines was Richard Helms point man in covering up this project “In 1965, the Long Subcommittee hearings on the use of mail covers and other investigative techniques by federal agencies caused the Agency serious concern about possible Congressional discovery and revelation of the project. It is noted above that in September 1965, as a result of this concern, CIA officials briefly considered informing Postmaster General Gronouski of the project. When this proposal was rejected, presumably because Gronouski had cooperated extensively with the Subcommittee, Thomas Karamessines, then Acting Deputy Director for Plans, "suggested that, in his opinion, the President would be more inclined to go along with the idea of the operation." Karamessines "gave instructions that steps should be taken to arrange to pass through McGeorge Bundy to the President after the Subcommittee has completed its investigation." (pg 30) “Three years later, the Long Subcommittee's investigation was believed to increase the risk of project exposure. An internal CIA memorandum dated April 23, 1965, states: Mr. Karamessines [Assistant Deputy Director for Plans] felt that the dangers inherent in Long's subcommittee activities to the security of the Project's operations in New York should be thoroughly studied in order that a determination can be made as to whether these operations should be partially or fully suspended until the subcommittee's investigations are completed. (pgs 40 & 41) In one document we bring together Allen Dulles, Richard Helms, James Jesus Angelton and Thomas Karamessines. We also show that Oswald’s letter to the Socialist Workers Party would have placed him, at minimum, on a “Watch List” of the CIA and perhaps was opened and read by some of the same people that would be monitoring his movements before the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Was the CIA aware of Oswald as early as 1956, we must not discount the possibility! If Oswald was in fact on this “Watch List” it would make it unlikely that he would be given the security clearances necessary to work on the U-2 while in the Marines, unless of course the “agency” had other plans for him. The Watch List: “Letters were selected for opening by two basic methods: (1) on the basis of a list of names known as the "Watch List," and (2) randomly. By one CIA estimate, the "Watch List" accounted for approximately 25% of the total volume of mail that was opened; random selection for 75%.” (pg 11) “The Watch List. -- The Watch List originated in the mid-1950's, at which time it consisted of only ten to twenty names. With the SR Division, the CI Staff, the Office of Security, and the FBI all contributing names to the list it grew rapidly, however: by the end of the project the Watch List totaled about 600 names.” (pg 12) Within a short time, the Watch List had expanded far beyond these relatively narrow and well-defined categories. The names of individuals who were in contact with Watch Listed persons and organizations were frequently added to the list themselves, and, as an August 1961 memorandum points out, a very large percentage of the names on the list were placed there because of "leads which came about through the random selection." (pgs 11 & 12) Jim Root

Roger, Pat, John I tend to look at the assassination as potentially two crimes, the actual assassination and, if their was in fact a conspiracy, the flawed investigation. If a person was knowingly involved in suppressing or witholding information that was pertinent to the investigation and did so with intent to mislead the investigators, they would have, in fact, committed a crime. If this same withheld information compromised national security it would also be a crime to make the infromation public. The loyal employees of our nation that are tasked with protecting the national interests would find themselves in a cunnundrum where only the most loyal could be trusted to do the most dishonest deeds. This is where we seem to find Thomas Karasemmines and his trusted associate George Joannides monitoring the movements of Oswald before the assassination and "redirecting" the investigations toward the "company" view after the fact. Were they covering up the fact that the government had an "interest" in Oswald or that Oswald was in fact an "asset" of our intelligence agencies? While I continue to ponder these thoughts, for myself, the association of these two men with Walker at an earlier stage in their careers seems more than just coincidental. While perhaps a little off the subject Karasemmines was also involved with General Fredricks (another close Walker associate) at the time of Fredericks' unsavory departure from the US Military during the Greek Civil War (circa 1953). It seems some peoples loyalty and some peoples integrity could create conflicts when dealing with issues of national security. In that perticular case it seems only one choose to be guided by integrity over national security. I sometimes wonder what choices each of us would make if put to the tests that the cold warriors went through on a daily basis. Jim Root

John In another strange case of coincidence Thomas Karamessines worked with Edwin Walker during the 1948 period of the Greek Civil War. At that time there were about 44 Americans involved in the supply, training, etc. that centered around this period of history that led to the Truman Doctrine. Of course my interest is in the Walker connection! My schedule has been such that my available time for posting has been very limited.......I will attempt to add more to this post as time permits. Jim Root

I thought it might be interesting to hear from the forum about how the National Security Agency fits into your thoughts and theories about the assassination of JFK. Please be brief and specific, naming names if possible and events or operations that you believe might be of interest in this research. As most of you may know my research into the assassination follows trails that go back to pre WWII events and careers so do not be afraid to mention stray facts or coincidences from these early periods. Thanks for your help. Jim Root

Tim I agree that the West Virginia primary may have played an important role in knocking Humphrey out of contention for the Democratic Party's nomination in 1960. Religion, organization and money are the topics most discussed when talking about this pivotal primary. I believe it was the second Tuesday of May, 1960, an interesting historical moment that may have another twist that has been ignored by most historians. The Democratic primary had come down to two players, Humphrey that was pushing a new deal type liberal social agenda and Kennedy, the hawk, that was talking missle gaps, bomber gaps and a presidency that had gone soft on communism. On May 1st Francis Gary Powers was shot down in his U-2 while on a spy mission over the Soviet Union. The Eisenhower administration had been assured that the pilot would not survive such an incident and provided a cover story that the U-2 was a peaceful NASA weather plane that had strayed off course. For the next seven days they stuck with this story until the Soviets produced the living pilot, spy film, incriminating documents and a confession. Eisenhower had to publicly admit that he had lied to the American public. The Paris peace summit then fell apart. Would the election of 1960 have been different if Francis Gary Powers' U-2 had not been downed? Can you imagine if Richard Nixon, Dwight Eisenhower and Nikita Khruschev had had the photo op of the century as they signed a nuclear treaty of some sort and could claim the end of the Cold War? Would a "New Era of Peaceful Coexistance and Progress" be Nixon's campaign slogan? Would Kennedy, the "Hawk" have had a chance if the election had been about peace? Interesting questions: Did Lee Harvey Oswald's defection to Russia lead to the downing of the U-2? Was there a "plot" to elect Kennedy? Did the "Hawks" want to get rid of the Eisenhower group that had become to close to the commies? Did the "Eastern Establishment" wan the election to go to one of their own instead of the poor Western Quaker? Wasn't Allen Dulles a Chatholic as well? Questions to ponder while thinking about a man who would later refer to himself as a patsy after the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Jim Root

Tim I would like to talk with Nelson Delgado, Oswald's Marine Corp buddy. Jim Root

Greg In an earlier post you spoke about John Abt's wife Jessica Smith. In rereading this post you mention that she was on the national board of the AFSC. Just out of curiosity do you know if she was associated with the Biddle family? If so, can you enlighten me as to how or in what ways? The Warren Commission's attempt to suggest that Oswald wanted an ACLU attorney, in my mind, has little basis in fact. It is for this reason that I have tried to look into ways that Jonathan Abt's life crossed paths with some of the other characters associated with the assassination in general and the Commission in particular. There does seem to be some coincidences. What thoughts have gained your attention in this area? Does it seem peculiar to you that Oswald was consistant in wanting Abt the "Smith Act" attorney? As I think about this further, is it another coincidence that Abt just happened to be out of town and unavailable the weekend of the assassination while Oswald attempted to contact him and only him, to act as his attorney? Jim Root

All It has always been my understanding that Oswald was holding out for Abt to act as his attorney. It is interesting to note that when Oswald died, Abt's phone numbers (office and home?) were written on a piect of paper that was found in his pocket. Jim Root

Greg Thanks for bring this subject up again. Over the past several months I have had an opportunity, with the help of this board, to rethink alot of the old information that I have gathered. When I first read the Warren Report, over ten years ago, the Walker story was the major thing that jumped out at me. As I have researched the General I have been surprised about how many other connections I have found while attempting to piece together a consistant case for a conspiracy. The story of Jonathan Abt was, to say the least, a strange piece to this puzzle. Why did the Warren Commission distort the truth about this man? Perhaps because it could, in an indirect way, lead to the truth? Oswald the Socialist, Abt the American Communist. Smith Act, first used against the Socialist then against the Communist. Backyard photgraph, one Socialist magazine and one American Communist publication, two weapons. Was Oswald telling us something? Jim Root

Greg Thank you for bringing this information back into the spotlight. From the number of responses you can assume that the subject of Jonathan Abt does not generate much interest. For myself it is a curiosity worth delving into. The Warren Commision seems to go out of their way to distort the truth about a subject that wood seem insignificant. Why? Is it because Jonathan Abt was a Smith Act Attorney (Oswald repeatedly made reference to Jonathan Abt the Smith Act Attorney)? A little history will show that the Smith Act was enacted in 1940 and is titled for it's primary author, Howard Worth Smith of Virginia. It was first used against members of the Socialist Workers Party (Trotskyites) when James Cannon, the national secretary was imprisoned. The use of the Smith Act was supported by the Communist Party USA because we bacame allied with Russia against the Germans during WWII and the Soviet Communists disliked the Trotskyites. During the 1948 Presidential Campaign the Smith Act was brought back into use by the Truman Admistration in response to the Republican attacks that Truman was soft on the Communists. It is here that we find Abt's apperance as a Smith Act attorney representing members of the American Communist Party. In October of 1949 twelve leaders of the party were arrested, led by Eugene Dennis. After a nine month trial, eleven members were convicted of violating the Smith Act. Another 46 members of the American Communists were proscecuted over the next two years. I will bring back a previous post I had made about Abt and then if some discussion is generated I will suggest a potential connection to this area of research and why the leaders of the Warren Commission worked to conceal this information about Abt from the public. Jim Root