Gary Murr

On 12/5/2020 at 4:57 PM, Micah Mileto said:

I am looking for where exactly it says that some witnesses testified to the Warren Commission in the presence of other witnesses (which could have influenced the fidelity of the information provided by the witnesses). Specifically, I want to know if Drs. Humes, Boswell, and Finck testified in eachother's presence.

Micah:

Doctors Robert Shaw and Charles Gregory who, as you are aware, both operated on John Connally, testified back-to-back on the afternoon of April 21, 1964, in Washington before members of the Warren Commission and its staff. However, if you read their testimonies carefully you will see that they were present in the room together as they testified. See 4H113 [Warren Commission Vol 4, page 113]

Gary

Many thanks for all of your work on this project Larry; I, for one, am greatly appreciative and look forward to the remaining parts of this book.

On another note, good luck to yourself, Deb Conway, and everyone participating and/or involved in any way in the virtual conference this week. I am sure it will be a great success!!!

Gary

Another fantastic work, David – impressive and useful. Kudos …

Gary

David Boylan asked:  “Gary, do you know if the Adelaide and the Joanne were the same ship?” And my original response was yes. Further to that…

Hi David:

I have done a quick search of some of my AMWORLD files in an effort to find substantiation of my thought that the AMWORLD/JMWAVE maritime assets “Joanne” and “Adelaida” were one and the same vessel. I am listing below two RIF numbers that I feel give some credence to this theoretical assertion on my part. You can search them on the MFF site in the CIA documents section. The thing to notice is in both instances though the individuals involved in these telephone conversations [all are well known to you – grin] talk about both ships, note where these records are to be filed – last page of each report, bottom left hand corner under “File:” You will find the name “Joanne” but not the name “Adelaida.” I cannot recall, off the top of my head right now, if I ever found communication between these individuals involved in AMWORLD indicating that a “File” under the name of “Adelaida” was ever set up.

Both RIF “Agency” are CIA [files]

RIF: 104-10162-10163

RIF:  104-10241-10060

David:

My short answer to this question is yes, I do believe that the “Joanne” and the “Adelaide” were one and the same. I am away from my research materials at the moment; when I get the chance I will see what I can find in the way of substantiation for this claim.

1 hour ago, David Boylan said:

Gary,

We have not located the original personal letter sent by the COS to Zamka with the specs. But we keep trying!

There were inquiries on AKLs sent to the US Navy during the summer of '63 for use by AMWORLD. 

Gerry Hemming did produce an interesting list of boats used by the CIA for Ops.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=105141&search=AKL#relPageId=119&tab=page

 

Hi David:

Again, no problem and thanks for the information. I am familiar with Hemming’s document, having come across it during my research into AMWORLD. I found some of his claims regarding the maritime assets to be surprisingly accurate. It has been some time since I deeply researched this subject matter, but I still possess the belief that various “mother” ships utilized by Artime and his associates were given multiple names for the same vessel. I know that in the case of the Olga Patricia this suspicion on my part was accurate. They also used to fiddle with the registries of the maritime assets again in an effort to obfuscate their true identity and the purpose for which the vessels were being used. The reason I initially inquired as to the time frame for the as yet discovered 1963 original COS PACY letter to Zamka was to see if it had anything to do with the Olga Patricia. From my perspective “Panama” or Panamanian interests enter into the history of this AKL mother ship offered to Artime. I have a third party copy of a document issued from the notary public office of the Republic of Panama dated August 11, 1964 regarding the transfer of a “mortgage” held on the Olga Patricia by the Inter American Lines, Inc., drawn in favor of the Coconut Grove Bank in Florida. As you are probably aware, the issue of the Olga Patricia as an AMWORLD/Artime maritime asset was first offered in June of 1963. At that time it was acknowledged that the Olga was under charter to an unidentified “AMRUM corporation” but could be purchased for an asking price of $175,000. The creators of the cable outlining this potential deal, JMWAVE, felt that a deal could be reached at a lower selling price, in the range of $125,000 - $150,000. JMWAVE further indicated that if this deal was “done AMRUM Corporation could then sell vessel to corporation set up by AMBIDDY-1. Urge consideration of this proposal.” I believe the corporation that was eventually set up by Artime and associates, Maritime Bam, were involved in these dealings and may have even been involved in the mortgage transfer document of August, 1964. This same deal was put together by a Panamanian lawyer, Ricardo Vallarino Chiara.

My two cents FWIW

Gary

Hi David:

No problem – and congratulations to you and Larry on this work. I hate to be a pest, but would you happen to have a link/reference to “the personal letter COS PACY sent Zamka…” apparently in the months prior to this document dated the day of the assassination? I am curious to see if it dovetails in the summer of 1963, say July – August.

Thanks,

Gary

29 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Hi David- Thanks very much! Seems like an odd time to send a letter about a boat.

Hi Matt:

Can you send me the MFF link [?] that indicates the sending of this letter regarding a boat? I might be able to shed some light on this from material in my AMWORLD file, but I need to see the document first.

Thanks,

Gary Murr

Congratulations, Larry. I look forward to receiving my copy. And you, give up writing – even for a while? Never!!

Gary

3 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Jumping in for Gary,  Stu Wexler has managed to capture John's material and has been doing work getting ready to upload it and make it available.  That is still in progress...but the good news is that it survives and will help preserve John's legacy. 

Thanks for the update Larry – this is indeed great news!  And kudos to Stu for taking on this task. From what little of the overall material John  shared with me, I believe that we are all in for a fantastic cache of exiting document revelations that can only add to the overall research history of the events of not only the JFK assassination but also that of his brother,  RFK.

Gary

Thanks for these resource materials, Bart; I, for one, greatly appreciate your ongoing efforts in supplying us with rare, hard to acquire documents.

Gary

Sandy Larsen said:

“Huh? How does this John Connally quote indicate that the bullet hit him in the front of the chest? The back of the chest has ribs too.

And besides, he suffered a punctured lung and the immediate pain he felt was likely from that and not from the bullet wounds. (IMO based on my own experience with flesh wounds, where pain comes on very slowly, as opposed to organ and joint trauma, where the onset of pain is immediate.)”

You are absolutely correct on this point, Sandy. This is a fact made by the surgeon of record for this particular wound site, Dr. Robert Shaw. As Shaw indicated, one of the “side effects” of the exit wound on the Connally anterior chest wall is that as he attempted to breath his lungs, in particular his right lung, attempt to aspirate/exit out through the opening  created by the exited missile. As Shaw further indicated, this is an extremely painful wound. The fact that Connally unquestionably felt excruciating pain as a result of this exit wound it is not clear indication that this was a wound of “entry.”

I have known, or been aware of David Lifton, for approximately 50 years. My first contact with David stretches all the way back to the late 1960’s – early 1970’s, contact as a result of my work with Fred Newcomb and Perry Adams during the construct of their manuscript, “Murder From Within.” As David well knows, I am respectful of his research, though we might not always agree on theoretical end results. I also, as many here on this Forum may be aware, spent the better part of twenty years studying the Connally wounding process and only the Connally wounding event. Based upon my research into this matter, I must state that to me the concept that John Connally suffered any wounds as a result of an entry wound created by a shot from the “front” of the Presidential limousine is ludicrous. To paraphrase Daniel Patrick Moynihan, anyone is entitled to their own opinions – but not to their own facts.

Gary Murr

“(1) Why Gov Connally later (some years after his Warren Commission testimony) gave an account that he felt as if he were slammed in the chest from the front. Do you think Connally’s memory decayed with time; or is this a situation in which, to quote Josephine Tey, “Truth is the daughter of time”?”

David:

As someone who possesses more than a passing interest in the wounding of John Connally, can you indicate to me/us the source for Connally claiming “that he felt as if he were slammed in the chest from in front.”?

Gary Murr

Hello Joe:

I am affixing a couple of links below; the first is a brief obituary posted on the AARC site following John’s untimely death in 2018. The second is a link to some of John’s essay’s as originally posted on the old JFK Lancer site. If you “Google” search John’s name you will undoubtedly find other materials that he produced. He literally scanned gigabytes of FBI materials from the National Archives in conjunction with his research efforts and essay writing. He also traveled to Los Angeles as part of his ongoing efforts in unraveling the RFK assassination. Fellow forum member, Stu Wexler, and John were long-time friends so he might be someone else to whom you might appeal regarding John and his work.

Gary

https://aarclibrary.org/researcher-john-hunt-jr-1965-2018/

http://www.jfklancer.com/hunt/phantom.htm

The one individual who spent more time at the National Archives examining and scanning enormous amounts of original documentation, in particular the massive JFK assassination “bulky files” generated by members of the FBI lab, and additionally in my opinion the foremost researcher of the RFK assassination, the late and much missed…

 John Hunt.

14 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Gary:

You're saying that they thought Connally was not hit until 280?

And then this was changed because of the necessity of the Single Bullet Fantasy?

 

Hi Jim:

Apologies for not responding sooner to your question, but I did not see it until this morning. In essence what you have deduced as a result of looking at my chapter 18 is correct. I am arguing that as of the date of this the first in a series of lengthy sessions with the Zapruder, January 27, 1964, WC counsels Ball, Belin, Eisenberg and Redlich are of the opinion that Connally may have been wounded in a time span encompassing “frames 56 thru 73”, the Frederick Webb based Z film numbering system. What I believe I have shown in this chapter is that when one couples the Webb numbering system with the Shaneyfelt drawings, and interpret this information in terms of the eventually accepted “official” Shaneyfelt Z film numbering system, one arrives at a WC staff time frame for the potential wounding of John Connally that encompasses Z280 to Z297. At this moment in time, late January, 1964 this hypothesis was, I feel, acceptable to these same members of the WC staff. However, what was unknown to them was a factor forthcoming that would generate, in part, the necessity of the single bullet theory. And that factor was the time necessary to fire consecutive shots from the alleged weapon of the assassination, the 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano found on the sixth floor of the TSBD.

As you are probably aware, marksmen utilized in “speed” testing to operate the manual bolt action of the Carcano generated an accepted time frame of 2.6 seconds [average] between shots, a physical action that did not include the factor of aiming. But putting that aside, when one takes this time frame and equates it to the accepted Z film fps speed one is left with the fact that 47 frames of Zapruder film will “pass” thru the camera before the next shot can be fired [47.58 frames to be precise – 2.6 X 18.3 = 47.58].  If the WC and its staff were to accept the operational factor of an average of 2.6 seconds between shots, which they were willing to do, then what does this mean for the wounding of John Connally as surmised by members of the WC staff in late January of 1964? Quite simply if accepted it would have necessitated a second shooter because; taking the “low” end of the WC staff Connally wounding time span of frame 56/Z280 + 47 frames = Z327; taking the “high” end of the WC staff wounding time span of frame 73/Z297 + 47 frames = Z344. Or put in simpler terms, as of January 27, 1964 members of the WC staff have arrived at a Connally wounding time frame that encompasses Z327 thru Z344 – sheer poison because it is uncontested that JFK is fatally hit at Z313. And whether one accepts a Connally “hit” at Z327 or as late as Z344, neither scenario allows enough frame time to operate the alleged weapon of the assassination to fire the “second” shot that impacted, in the WC staff time frame – i.e. Z327 – Z313 = 14 z frames or Z344 – Z313 = 31Z frames, both falling short of the needed 47Z frames to reload.

Hopefully this makes sense…

Gary

John, David, et al:

The answer to the question surrounding the “shots” and “frame thru” numbering system were explained, in totality, by myself in Chapter 18, Volume 1 of my three volume work on the wounding of John Connally, “Controlling The Past.” I provided this volume and others free of charge via a link on the Ed Forum several years ago. Nonetheless, I am affixing a link below that will open this same chapter 18, as well as the footnotes that go with this same chapter. As you will see, and I repeatedly have argued in the past, the true “original” Zapruder film frame numbering was not constructed by Lyndal Shaneyfelt, but rather a fellow lab employee of his at the FBI, Frederick Webb. This discussion concerning Webb and his input begins on page number 454 of this chapter – you will find the page numbers centered on both the top and bottom of the pages.

This link will remain open for only seven days, so if you are interested download the chapter and notes.

Gary Murr

LINK:     https://we.tl/t-cEjxhTAiqi  

Hi Denis

I acquired copies [and still have] both of the Sharon Tuohy – HSCA cassette’s over a decade ago during my research on my three volume Connally work, “Controlling The Past.” I actually was successful in tracking Sharon down as a result of my listening to the tapes. She was initially hesitant to speak to me regarding the subject matter of her theoretical discovery of a bullet at Parkland Hospital. Indeed she only agreed to answer my emails to her if I guaranteed her anonymity and would not reveal where she was then residing. This was and remains our arrangement, though I must admit I have not exchanged any correspondence with her in over five years, indeed do not know if the e address I have is still viable. FWIW my assessment of the matter is that to a large extent it became a “she said/claimed” vs “she said/claimed” between not only Sharon and Donna Schloss but also Sharon and other members of the Parkland nursing staff in 1963 – 1964. I always intended to get back to this particular snippet of the Connally – single bullet theory, but like so many other good intentions I shelved the idea. Who knows, now that I am retired, maybe I will find some time to take a second look at the materials I have stashed away somewhere on Sharon.

Gary Murr

Congratulations David. As you well know, I have the utmost respect for your ongoing diligence and hard work in continuing to explore areas of this subject matter that must be put  under the microscope. I only wish I had been in Dallas this year to witness your presentation in person.

Gary

Hi Ron:

I believe what you are referencing/inquiring about here was the Senate subcommittee chaired by Senator Thomas J. Dodd. This committee was set up to investigate mail-order gun business and initially held hearings from January to May of 1963. Both firms that Oswald allegedly ordered weapons from were investigated by this Committee. Dodd hired investigators to sample the market in mail-order guns. If you are interested in further exploring this issue see: U. S. Congress, Senate Subcommittee to Investigate Juvenile Delinquency of the Senate Judiciary; Hearings to Study the Interstate Traffic in Mail-Order Firearms. 88^th Congress, 2^nd Session, 1963, in particular p. 3596ff.

Apologies for the stroke through s, David; this always seems to happen to me and I don't know why. Hopefully you can still read what I have written. If not, my private message to you will be arriving shortly.

Gary

Hi David:

I have written about this specific instance of alleged FBI acquisition of MC/FC rifles, alleged "duplicate" of the similarly alleged assassination weapon, in my forthcoming work on the true history of the WCC 6.5mm ammunition. I will send you a private message shortly with what I have discovered concerning the various serial numbers. This issue is rather murky and involves a memorandum originally constructed by Robert Frazier in December of 1963, a memo that eventually carries a Frazier handwritten notation of "Not sent" but a memo that he eventually did send to Ivan Conrad in June of 1964. Part of your inability to potentially discover the serial numbers of rifles acquired by the FBI from Kleins via the Chicago FO is that some of this documentation is in a folder in an FBI bulky serial file that as far as I know is not available anywhere online - i.e. via Mary Ferrell website or others. One specific example is found in 62-109060-8307X, Part 1, Box 109, Folder number 16. As indicated, I will send some of what I have in my manuscript along to you via a private email/message.

Gary Murr

20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Thanks Pat, it was the 1967 show then where Barker appears to have suborned perjury.

Gary,  who were the four blind mice?

Hi James:

The "four blind mice" - Givens, Bonnie Ray Williams, James Jarman, Jr., and Harold Norman.

Gary

FWIW:

I wrote a 200 page chapter on Charles Givens and friends, which can be found in Volume 2 [Forsaken - Tales of Straw-men and Reconstruction]  of my John Connally trilogy, "Controlling The Past" It is Chapter 26 of Volume 2 and is titled, "Disconnected - or Four Blind Mice?"

Gary Murr

This is indeed sad news. I had the pleasure of meeting Ian on two different occasions in Dallas during Lancer Conference appearances. He was most gracious and never failed to respond to any requests for information I made of him over the years. His work on members of the Dallas Police Department was a remains first rate. As a fellow "old guard" researcher he was someone I considered a friend and he will be missed.

RIP Ian.