Gary Murr
-
Posts
392 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Store
Posts posted by Gary Murr
-
-
Hello Keyvan:
There are no contemporaneous photographs taken of John Connally's various injuries/wound sites. I do have one photograph of Connally pointing out the position of the exit wound to his right distal radius but this was taken some time after his wounding event. I also do not believe there was a need to cut Connally's suit jacket off of him upon his arrival at PMH; do you feel there was some reason as to why this "cutting" should have taken place?Gary
-
Hi Jim
The attached link will take you to the image that becomes CE511, again from the Luke Mooney testimony. As before, you can use the "zoom" feature to view the two cartridges visible in this image, closest to the wall. The third cartridge is not visible in this image because of the position/angle of the camera/cameraman. I do not believe the two cartridges you see in this image have been "moved" - they appear to me to be in the same position as those images taken from the other direction, with the cameraman standing in the corner behind the "snipers" box configuration; count/compare the bricks and note the position/makeup of the floor boards.
Link: https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49744/m1/1/?q=Texas%20School%20Book%20Depository
-
5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:
Just out of curiosity, I went looking for when CE510 and 512 were introduced as evidence
Hi Steve:
These two exhibits were introduced during the March 25, 1964 testimony session of Luke Mooney - 3H286, 3H287.
Gary
-
Hi Steve:
Unfortunately Twyman, and many others, are just wrong on this point about the image in question showing a fully loaded 6.5mm WCC Carcano cartridge along the sixth floor southeast corner window wall, down in one of the spaces between the boards, circled as "A". If one looks at a decent copy of this photograph and enlarges this area it is clear that this is a spent cartridge case, not a loaded cartridge. I am attaching a link below; go to this image from the Texas Portal website, click on it and then use the "zoom" function to expand the image as large as you like; then look at cartridge "A".
Link: https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49604/?q=Texas%20School%20Book%20Depository
FWIW
Gary
-
11 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
Thanks Ron, and now I can finally state the question I wanted to ask.
These pics are in the WC volumes.
The FBI took them fairly early in the proceedings.
If one reads the WC testimony of Wesley and his sister, I do not recall one question based on the obvious contradictions the pics make with her story.
Does anyone else?
The obvious question is why?
But beyond that, this is my complaint with the first generation critics: I don't recall any of them asking about this either. They just accepted the testimony of both. And they proceeded to do what Ray is doing, ask questions about the length of the bag. Instead of the much more serious question: How the heck could Linnie have seen Oswald through the car, the slats, and another car?
Hi Jim:
Just a brief chronology regarding the background on these specific photographs, and to get the subject matter back on track. The impetus for the photo's came about as a result of a lengthy request from the Commission via a letter composed by J. Lee Rankin dated March 4, 1964.[62-109060-2579] The letter begins with Rankin indicating that "In connection with the proposed examination of Buell Wesley Frazier and Linnie Mae Randle by the Commission on March 11, we would like to have the following exhibits available:" Rankin then went on to list eight specific and lengthy requests, numbers 5 and 6 of which dealt specifically with the issue of the Randle residence and its surrounding environs. Hoover [actually the courier service letter was constructed by James Malley, FBI liaison with the Commission] answered Rankin on March 6, 1964, confirming a conversation that the Bureau had with staffer Howard Willens concerning the upcoming testimony sessions of Frazier and Randle at which time Willens was advised that the Commission requests were "very extensive in nature and could possibly require considerable time to obtain the desired information."[62-109060-Unrecorded, but can be found in the same file reference indicated above].
Two days later, March 8, 1964, a two page teletype was issued from the Dallas FO to the attention of the Director regarding the work involved to fulfill the Rankin requests of March 4th.[62-109060-2686] This teletype ends with the following sentence: "Assignment will be completed and available to the Commission by March 16, 1964." This dating is of course five days after Randle and Frazier are scheduled to appear before the Commission. The first question that arises in my mind is if this information regarding the potential date that the exhibits, including the photographs that will be taken of the Randle house, reached the Commission was any effort made to re-schedule the date of the Randle-Frazier testimony sessions? They were scheduled to testify on March 11th [and they did on that date] but the exhibits specifically requested by Rankin were not going to be available until March 16th.
On March 9, 1964, SA Arthur E. Carter of the Bureau's Exhibit's Section took a series of photographs of the Randle residence, the contents of which are described in detail in the FD-302 report prepared by Carter on that same date, March 9th. [Found in Robert Gemberlings massive FO report dated April 15, 1964, pp. 153-154, designated CD897 by the WC]. As you stated, Jim, because of the timing of the completion of the project by members of the FBI Exhibits Bureau, these photographs were not shown to or introduced into evidence during the Randle-Frazier testimony sessions of March 11th but rather during the testimony session of Ruth Paine on March 19th, 20th, 1964.[3Hp1ff] It is apparent that during the March 9th Carter exercise of taking the photographs Linnie Mae Randle was home and "aided" her previous statements of where she was and what she observed on the morning of the assassination by positioning herself at various locations within the house, resulting in the images you originally posted. [Bardwell D. Odum was also present; he filed and FD-302 interview report of his contact with Linnie Mae dated March 9, 1964, in which she corrects the direction from which she observed Oswald approach her house]
FWIW
Gary
-
8 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:
Gary and David.
Could you boil this down for me?
Are you saying that this is an American document, written by and American person, and that the rifle being displayed was a 7.35 caliber and not a 6.5?
I had always thought the rifle came through Interarmco, but this document says it came through Adams? Or it might be one of the tens of thousand floating around on the black market?
Steve Thomas
Hi Steve:
A quick response from me on this query. The alleged rifle of the crimes of November 22, 1963, did not come through Interarmco. Whether C2766 was actually involved in the death of a president is debatable and David has probably spent as much time on this subject matter as anyone. Interarmco "lost" the bidding war for 500,000+ Carcano's, at least the specific bidding war outlined in the SIFAR document. Interarmco did sell both 7.35 and [eventually] 6.5 caliber Carcano's. As I understand the specific report under discussion herein, the "Dispatch" classified as secret was generated out of Rome by the CIA Chief of Station in Rome, based upon information in a report constructed/released on November 28, 1963, a report generated by a party redacted from the document, but a report nonetheless made as a result of a request by then Italian Defense Minister, Guilio Andreotti. Who is directly responsible for the "translation" wired via the CIA is not known, at least by myself.
Gary
-
8 minutes ago, David Josephs said:
I understood these to be from Rome...
You are correct, David. The issue of this report came up during the March 31, 1964 testimony session of Robert Frazier. The FBI had acquired a copy of the report early in their investigation and initially SIFAR did not want the report made "public." Unfortunately I am busy at the moment working in another area of this subject matter, but off the top of my head, if you read the Frazier testimony session you will see Earl Warren's reticence to make this document a part of the Commission's record. Eventually an arrangement is worked out with SIFAR and a copy with "deletions" was made available. In truth, Frazier took a copy of the SIFAR report with him when he met with Melvin Eisenberg for his five hour pre-testimony session prior to his March 31 testimony session. This document was funnelled to the FBI etc via the CIA. You will note that the document is "signed" on the last page by one Daniel M. Presland, an individual as Bill Simpich reveals in State Secret [Chapter 5] was actually one of many pseudonym's used by William Harvey while working at Staff D.
FWIW, I have much more on this entire SIFAR document in my forthcoming book.
Gary
-
Hey Paz:
The SIFAR report on the Carcano is in the Mary Ferrell Foundation files; I am attaching the RIF # below; when the site comes back online you should be able to access this information.
RIF # 104-10019-10008 or conversely put the words "Italian report on the type of rifle used in JFK assassination" in the "search" area of the Foundation site. You can also use "subject" matter words in the Ferrell search engine such as, "weapon-assassin", "Italy" and "Andreotti"
Gary Murr
-
39 minutes ago, David Josephs said:
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10111-10087.pdf
David....
Is "David L Christ" the same as David F Christensen ??
This is a Military notification of Cover Backstop taken out on Sept 27, 1963 requesting cover...
Hi David:
I don't believe David L. Christ and Christensen are the same individuals, though David Christ is an interesting character. He was part of the "STESCALAD" [cryptonym] operation against the Chinese embassy in Havana, September, 1960. I am attaching a few links of interest for you, and A. J. Weberman has an entire Nodule, No. 12, on David Christ in his Coup d'état in America. including photographs. [lengthy link also attached herein]
FWIW - Gary
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP91-00587R000100010065-1.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP09-02295R000100160001-8.pdf
-
Hello Paz:
I look forward to the translation of this article. As a Canadian researcher possessing a long interest in the subject matters generated on this and other forums I can understand/sympathize with the frustration one endures in dealing with Library and Archives, Canada, though this is obviously not a "mind set" unique to this particular institution. I have been attempting to acquire information from Archives Canada concerning William Sucher and the former International Firearms Company, Montreal, Quebec for several years now and still have not obtained everything I have requested. I just yesterday completed a request for records that pertain to the Crown Assets Disposal Corporation circa 1954 to 1962 and have been told that a response could take up to five months! Oh well, carry on!!
Gary Murr
-
Hello Tommy:
No problem - and I did see your reply to Andrej before my offer. No offense to Don Roberdeau and his map , which I am familiar with and is excellent. However, perhaps the information I have, coupled with Don's witness positioning can aid with the end results Andrej [and others] are trying to achieve. As I indicated in my prior response, the measurements I have were taken within two weeks of the assassination event, on site, with the aid of surveyors equipment.
FWIW
-
1 hour ago, Andrej Stancak said:
would it be possible to maybe measure the distance from the spot the two ladies occupied during the shooting (in Z film) and the Depository doorway? We can then estimate their time possibilities they had to reach the doorway better.
Andrej:
If you [or someone] is able to indicate the position of the ladies in question relative to the four "live" oak trees that run along and in front of the Elm Street extension [that runs to the railroad yards] I have some exact measurements of distances from these trees to the front of the TSBD, measurements [with accompanying diagrams] constructed by SA Brent Hughes of the FBI Exhibits Section on December 6, 1963.
-
On 02/02/2018 at 1:28 PM, James DiEugenio said:
The other alternative is its a missed shot. The problem here is that there was no copper found on the curb by the FBI. If you have ever seen the copper coated CE 399 bullets, you will understand how that is impossible to fathom. And the excuses that Posner and Bugliosi have offered in that regard are simply fruity. The former says that the twigs in the tree completely stripped the coating from the bullet, the latter says that the bullet rotated off the street and while rotating the concrete unsheathed the copper coating uniformly.
Hey Jim:
I haven't been able to test the Bugliosi fruit-cake explanation offered for the lack of copper found on the Tague curb mark, but given what I do know about 6.5mm Carcano ammunition manufactured by the Western Cartridge Company, and e-mail exchanges on this subject matter with former employees, this theoretical possibility is nil. On the other hand, a fellow researcher and myself did test the Posner village idiot proposition and found it wanting. I [hopefully] am attaching a link to images of a 6.5mm WCC bullet that was fired through two oak tree "twigs" from a distance of 50 yards, both of which were roughly 2.5" in diameter. As you can see the copper jacket stayed intact, as it most certainly should have. The only after-affect we noted was a very slight "toothpaste" protrusion of lead from the base of this expended cartridge.
http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/GaryWCC/media/WCC branch test.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
FWIW
Gary Murr
-
Thanks, Mervyn; I was aware that the Olga had been "chopped up" - current photographs make that painfully obvious. I was not aware, however, that the Justice Department was involved - very interesting. I will be in touch with you regarding sharing/exchanging information and documentation on the OP. I just have to finish this final editing work first. If there is anything specific you would like to know, just ask.
Gary
-
I thank you for your informative reply, Mervyn - much appreciated. Funny thing, timing is; I just happen to be in the process of the final edit/re-write of the particular segment of "Forgotten" that deals, in part, with the Olga Patricia story. It is a 177 page section titled "The Light We Cannot See" that examines in detail the relationship between the CIA and Sam Cummings of Interarms/Interarmco fame and just how the Agency accumulates and then distributes the machinery of war to those involved in their various clandestine operations. The Olga story is included in this section. It is nice to know that you found my initial work on this subject matter of interest.
Is that you I see in a series of photographs taken with among others MvdV at the Offshore 50, Tattershall Castle get together in London, England, last August [2017]? If so, it looks like everyone had a good time!
Gary
-
8 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said:
I note that Larry Hancock in 'Shadow Warfare' does include a reference to the mv Olga Patricia
Hello Mervyn:
You may be "happy" to know that I include several pages of information on the Olga Patricia in my forthcoming work, "Forgotten." As you are probably aware, this particular vessel was not always called the Olga, my research indicating that it went through at least eight potential names changes over the years. And as you may also be aware, the Olga was listed in a JMWAVE office cable dated June 29, 1963 as a potential "mother ship" maritime asset useful to Manuel Artime in his CIA backed attempt to overthrow the Castro regime. Are you also aware that the Olga still exists, survives to this day, albeit in a somewhat modified form?
FWIW
Gary Murr
-
No problem; as you indicated, all of this material is useful.
Gary
-
And further, Steve, "Cuban Mug book Vol III" has the CIA's 201 file numbers affixed to those on whom they, the CIA, had obviously opened a file.
Gary
-
Hi Steve:
In addition, see the two MF links below; they tie in with your "Cubans sorted by names" but importantly also contain fairly decent mug shots of everyone on these listings.
FWIW
Gary
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=77012&relPageId=2&search="Cuban_mugbook Vol II"
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=77013&relPageId=2&search="Cuban_mugbook Vol III"
-
12 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
Gary,
Did my hometown of Erie Pa surpass you for snow?
There was only 58 inches there today.
Yes it did, James! We only received about 20 inches over Christmas eve and Christmas day. Unfortunately in this instance, and given the wind direction out of the Northwest, Erie was on the wrong side of the lake!!
-
Merry Christmas to all from the frozen northland of Canada - where the temperature was a balmy minus 26 degrees today! Best wishes for the New Year and to all, keep up the good [research] fight!!
-
Welcome to the forum, Zach, and an interesting first posting. Am I to assume, based upon what I see in your avatar, that you are potentially a fellow Canadian?
Gary Murr
-
1 hour ago, John Kowalski said:
Jim:
Who is RCD?
Hello John:
I believe Jim is referring to a fellow Canadian here - Robert Charles Dunne - or as he is known, "RCD." When you get a chance check out some of his postings here on the Ed Forum; I think you will find his writings insightful.
Gary Murr
-
19 hours ago, Michael Clark said:
"Century International Arms is an importer and manufacturer of firearms that is based in the United States. The company was founded in 1961 in St. Albans, Vermont, with offices in Montreal. In 1995 the company headquarters and sales staff moved to Boca Raton, Florida and to Delray Beach, Florida in 2004"
As with a lot of what one finds on Wiki, information such as this should be approached with caution particularly if one seeks historical accuracy. While it is true that Century Arms was "founded" in St. Albans, Vermont, in 1961, the power behind this particular "throne" was William Sucher and Empire Wholesale out of Montreal. As I discovered, James Ouimet, who is referred to as the "President" of Century Arms was actually a figurehead put in place by Sucher and his associates to run Century on their behalf. Sucher had actually established a foothold in this same area years earlier, but got into trouble with the state and the ATAF for violating various arms/armaments statutes and got the boot out of the country. Century was his "back door" re-entry into the U. S. and the lucrative arms market he wished to exploit, which he obviously did with huge success. Members of Sucher's family continue to run Century out of Florida and have for decades.
The oft-repeated story that Sucher started out as a typewriter salesman is contrived, at best. William Sucher was, from the very beginning, involved in the importation and selling of arms and ammunition - the "typewriter"/office equipment business was merely a front, a company he started simultaneously with his first arms/armament company and one that he had registered in his wife's name. In excess of 10,000 pages of my 50,000+ pages I have acquired in my search for the true history of 6.5mm ammunition manufactured by the Western Cartridge Company deals with Empire Wholesale, Century Arms, et al., including all articles of incorporation for all of the companies generated by Sucher and his associates.
FWIW
Gary
John Connally injury photographs
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Gary Murr
remove strike through
David:
Possibly true, but in this instance the fracture to the distal end of Connally's right radius was the least of their worries and if one is inclined to believe John Connally he did not even realize that the fracture to his wrist had occurred until after he come out of surgery. If true, I doubt Connally would have suffered any undue pain as a result of his arm being removed from his suit jacket sleeve. As you are probably aware, the real injury causing considerable pain and concern was obviously the much more serious wound of the chest.
If you are talking about the "they" that got the blood out of Connally's shirt, the "they" in this instance was Nellie Connally. And having personally handled all of the Connally clothing I can confirm for you that she did not get the blood stain out of his shirt. The shirt she hand dipped/soaked in cold water and then dried. The suit components on the other hand were professionally dry cleaned, again at the instructions of Nellie Connally.
Gary