Stephen Roy

2, Ernest Mentesana filmed police officers recovering a rifle from the roof of the TSBD, it has no sling, and no scope. A secretary who overhears the officers talking about the discovery tells reporter Theyer Waldo that a rifle was indeed found on the roof. Yet no official record of this event exists. WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS RIFLE. Let me take a stab at Devil's Advocate on this one: The reason we think that the film shows "the assassin's rifle" is because of Rudy Bretz's graphic on the image. What if Bretz was wrong? What if it is the officer's own shotgun? As there is no offical record of a rifle being found on the roof, could the officers have mistaken the location where the MC was found? Could the secretary have misheard it?

REPLY: With all due respect to Larry, a good researcher and a good guy, it has been no secret for a long time that Beckham was acquainted with Martin and Banister in 1961. Beckham said as much in his 1968 grand jury testimony. (And Banister indicated an acquaintence with him in his 1963 testimony at Ferrie's EAL hearing.) But Beckham's 1968 testimony UNDER OATH and under danger of a perjury rap is dramatically different than what he says today, not under oath or legal danger. One of the two accounts must be a lie. And Beckham does seem to lie on occasion. If Gus Russo's account is accurate, that Beckham lied to him about composing a classic song, then admitted his lie, this would indicate an inclination to lie to puff up his own importance. I don't agree that it is clear that Beckham had a relationship with Oswald. The people in the ITM films have not been identified, and I don't see enough resemblance with Beckham to make a definitive ID. That leaves us with Beckham's identification of himself in the films. IF his 1968 testimony is true, and his current account (and the reasons for the discrepancy between the 1968 and current accounts) are not true, then his identification of himself in the ITM film is suspect. I can't swear that it's NOT him, but I am not convinced that it is an undisputed fact. And this IS an issue, as Beckham plays a substantial role in the book. Many of us in this field have seen people peripherally connected to this case (and some not), who have seen the Stone film, read the books, seen the notoriety that sometimes comes to claimants, come forward with exaggerated claims. It happens, and we need to use a fine filter to insure that we are not diverted in wrong directions. I suggest that interested persons go to History Matters and read Beckham's 1968 Grand Jury testimony. His current explanation, that he lied in 1968 because he was fearful, may be true. But it may not.

When I was a kid, JFK was the Senator from my state, and my dad had me shake hands with him at a Veterans parade or some such thing. I remember a sense of hope, new ideas like Peace orps, physical fitness, space program. A change from the greyness of the older generation's Ike. On 11/22, I was in Miss Flangheddy's math class at West Junior High. For no apparent reason, we were sent back to our homerooms, where a PA announcement came of the shooting. About 40 minutes later came the death announcement and we were sent home. Another vivid memory was a TV commercial running at that time for Narragansett lager beer. A Castro-like figure is giving a speech, and an assassin runs up and shoots him. The announcer yells "Catch that assassin and ask him what he thinks about Naragansett lager beer!" You can bet THAT commercial never ran again. On Sunday, I had just left Mass and was at Webby's store. There was a TV behind the counter tuned to WBZ, the NBC affiliate, and somebody said "Here he comes". You all know what happened next. That murder made me wonder if this had been a plot. I remember saving all the local newspapers, including the Thursday announcement of the trip. I remember seeing a few b/w Zapruder frames a week or two later in the Boston Record newspaper.

Forgive me for popping in here, but this topic/thread just seems so polarized. Is there no middle ground? Does one have to loathe or love Garrison? Could he have been sincere? Could he have unearthed some interesting material? Could he have made mistakes?

John, did you say earlier that the Cram study was on-line? I'd sure like to see it. The whole Golytsin/Nosenko molehunt thing is fascinating, but so is the way it was dribbled out over a dozen or so years. SR

"Another source was Clare Petty, a woman who worked for Angleton. The CIA discovered this and she received a warning and came close to being fired. Interestingly, Petty later speculated that Angleton was a KGB agent. This was based on the harm that Angleton’s beliefs had on both the American and British intelligence agencies." Clare Edward Petty was a man. He has appeared in several documentaries and his photo is in a couple of books.

Several of these are pretty funny, but I really feel for Larry Hancock. Maybe we can help you with the car, buddy, but not the other part...

Don: What was the relationship between the CIA and the FRD/CRC after the invasion? Was the group still a "player" in anti-Castro operations? Among other things, I am trying to sort out the activities of David Ferrie. In November 1960, Tony Varona of the FRD sent Sergio Arcacha Smith to New Orleans as delegate. A short time later, Ferrie volunteered for the group. Prior to the Bay of Pigs, he was regarded as a "gringo" Norte Americano, but after the invasion, he was quite close to Arcacha and very involved in leading that chapter of the FRD/CRC, up until shortly after his morals arests in August 1961, when he was ostracized. Arcacha was dumped shortly afterward. IF a volunteer came to a local chapter of the FRD, would CIA know about it? Or would he be one of many hangers-on who didn't appear on CIA radar? The scant CIA record indicates that they knew almost nothing about him, but I find that hard to believe. Any ideas? What about the Russo notion of RFK closely guiding the anti-Castro groups after the invasion? Haven't read the book yet, but I plan to get it. Thanks.

Bill: Your writings are one of the sources of the account that Guy Banister served in Naval Intelligence in WWII. Do you have a source on that? All of the bios of Banister have him as SAC in Butte and Oakland City during the war.

True. The timing of Ferrie's death was very striking, but there is some controversy as to the means of death. My main objection was the notion that Ferrie was about to be called as a witness in the Shaw trial which, as you note, was two years later! Nor is there any evidence that Ferrie was about to re-called for questioning, as popular legend has it. A member of Garrison's staff said recently that Garrison had decided to "let Ferrie stew in his own juices" for a while. Ferrie had been frantically trying to arrange a meeting with Garrison, contacting the latter's old friend Pershing Oliver Gervais for that purpose. Sciambra and Ivon had gone to Ferrie's apartment just 4 days before his death but found the interview unproductive. Sometimes in this case, one overzealous writer or source will make an erroneous statement, and it is picked up by other writers as fact, and it becomes part of popular legend.

Stories were leaked during the Jim Garrison investigation that he was a paedophile. This is of course the worse thing that anyone could be called. It just shows that he must have been getting very close to the truth. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> With all due respect, no, it doesn't. I am very familiar with unpublished aspects of the allegations. The situation involved a prominent New Orleans family, who declined to press charges. Unless you believe the family fabricated the charges for some nefarious force, the charges had nothing to do with his probe. The notion that persons having issues with Garrison means that Garrison was "getting close to the truth" is illogical. There can be other reasons why people felt that way. Garrison's case should be judged on its own merits.

DOesn't ring any bells. But it is interesting how you took the hand out and ssemingly rotated it. What program are you using?

I'm not 1000% sure on the date, but here's my rationale: There are at least 2 other shots out there from the same day. They appear to be surveillance, made without Ferrie's knowledge, and they match very closely the surveillance shots made by Life when they were working with Garrison, which would be late 66-early 67. The Life shots were made at Lakefront, and these appear to be Lakefront. Funny that you mention the hat. That is another reason I date this later. I heard from a friend of Ferrie's that that particular hat was a holiday gift to Ferrie in about 1965, so I reasoned that pix of him in that hat must be later. But the friend who told me this has occasionally been wrong on details. I look forward to seeing the 1963 images at some point.

I'm pretty familiar with both, but I don't think it is either of the two you mention.

Alas, I don't recognize him. That appears to be one of a series taken surreptitiously in late 66-early 67 at Lakefront, in the "office" of Ferrie's flight school, the airport coffee shop! Considering that time frame, it does not look like Max Gonzales or Jimmy Johnson. It MIGHT be Les Templeton, a flight student who also worked at the airport. I had planned to take prints of a few of your pix, including recent ones with Ferrie's Stinson that appear to show CAP-type boys, and show them around on interviews in New Orleans in hopes of IDing those in the pictures, and I'd be inclined to bring this one as well. My trip for THIS WEEK has been cancelled, as the homes I intended to visit are under water. As soon as NO is back to its old form, I will do so and try to identify a few of these people. Some great pix, BTW. I don't know how you do it!

Alan: The Barnes-Mulholland story originated with John Corporan at WDSU-TV, who mentioned the then-developing Ferrie story to Mulholland. By the time it got to Barnes, it was garbled. I have an account of this in my Ferrie book. As interesting as Broshears' account was, I spoke with him and do not consider him a good source. And he was not Ferrie's roomate at any time. Peter Dale Scott mentioned Ferrie as patsy. There may be something to it. FWIW< I don't think the evidence regarding Ferrie is very solid. There are lots of little dribs and drabs, but I don't see him at the center of the conspiracy. But others disagree.

The rifles were: 4 1903 Model Springfield rifles, serials 319961, 1371173, 367239, 803168 2 .22 calibre rifles 1 English rifle, serial 7/47 AB 5633 1 flare gun, serial 3971 1 .38 calibre revolver 1 sword a quantity of ammunition Ferrie said the firearms were purchased at Crescent Gun Shop in 1959 for the New Orleans Cadet Rifle Club. He said the flare gun was given to him by the CAP in Cleveland. One of the devices mentioned may have been a Morse Code key with an amplifier and power supply. Ferrie said he needed this to maintain proficiency in MC as a pilot, and he apparently taught it to some of his CAP boys. One of those boys does recall Ferrie having posession of a set of field telephones and using them in CAP and "IMSU" work. What was the source of the list you posted?

I have to agree here, Tim. I was very much a supporter of Garrison's case at the time, and admired him greatly. When his files began to become available, I saw his case in a different light. By the time his autobiography was published, I could see some discrepancies between his files and his writings. I presume he was writing from memory, and he made a few mistakes. And in a few cases, one can be misled. For example, how strong the case was against Shaw at the time of his arrest. Over the next few years, even more Garrison files became available. Then came "JFK", based largely on Garrison's book but with other material added and certain dramatic liberties taken. It is a stunning film and still one of my favorites. Nevertheless, I caution researchers not to consider the film evidence. There is a lot of Garrison's original stuff there, but the film does not precisely follow the evidence. And I even urge caution with Garrison's book. I recommend checking other sources. I still admire Garrison, and I think his intentions were good. He truly believed that he had solved the case, but as another writer put it, I'm not sure he found "the " conspiracy.

I found these in an old book, a children's book, as it were. This shows the FBI leadership as it was in 1963. Some are familiar, but there's a few rarities here, such as Alan Belmont, Alex Rosen, Courtney Evans, James Gale. First half: Second half:

The discussion was between Ferrie and ADA John Volz, not Garrison, and it took place in late 1966, not 1963. From the transcript: FERRIE: I had some business for Gill to take care of. VOLZ: What business was this with Gill? FERRIE: One of his cases in Federal Court. Marion James Johnson was on appeal. I forgot whether I was to ask him for money for a transcript or what. VOLZ: Where did you go first?... FERRIE: We wanted to go ice skating then hunting. We were going to hunt geese south of Beaumont, in that area, to be more specific... VOLZ: You were going hunting? Di you take any weapons? FERRIE: Yes. VOLZ: What kind? FERRIE: Shotguns. VOLZ: How many? FERRIE: I assume offhand a weapon apiece... VOLZ: What made you decide to go to Vinton? FERRIE: Sooner or later I was going to have to go there for Gill. This was two birds with one stone. VOLZ: What did you do in Vinton? FERRIE: Talked to Marion James Johnson...Once again, if I could get the record I could tell you so. Don't forget this was three years ago...When we left Galveston we decided to go look for the geese. I remembered I boarded a ferry across the channel down along the south shore. We did, in fact, get to where the geese were and there were thousands, but you couldn't approach them. They were a wise bunch of birds. VOLZ: Did you kill any geese? FERRIE: No.

This and another thread cover a lot of ground, but let me make a stab at a few items. I've been researching Ferrie for a long time and have interviewed many people associated with him for a biography. It will contain a lot of new information and understanding. I need to hold a few things close to the vest due to agreements with other people, but I can offer a few insights here. I think it is very likely that Ferrie was in New Orleans on 11/22/63 up until about 9:15pm. I spoke with a person who was at his home the previous night and in the morning and had breakfast with him. As far as I know, the few available pictures taken at Federal court that day (by a newspaper that closely guards its archives) do not show Ferrie. In a strange and threatening conversation, a member of the defense did confirm that Ferrie was in court that day. As you know, there are conflicting accounts of his location in the early afternoon. He apprently attended a "victory party" at the Royal Orleans Hotel. He picked up Beaubouef at school at around 4:30pm and drove back to his apartment where he watched the news accounts with several people, including Layton Martens and John Johnson (I have spoken with most of these people). At 6:30 Ferrie and Beaubouef picked up Coffey and phoned Chuck Rolland in Houston. (Some have laughed at the ice skating account. Ferrie had recently acquired about $8500. from Gill and Eastern Air Lines and wanted to invest in a business with Beaubouef - the two did eventually invest about 10k in a service station. Another researcher tipped me to a contact Ferrie may have had with another ice rink proprietor, and it appears that he did discuss a franchise to open a rink in New Orleans, where there were no ice rinks.) As told to me, the trip had several purposes: The most important was to obtain a document from a man in Vinton who was, indeed, scheduled to go on trial shortly. The second was to talk to the Houston man about the franchise. A third was to try to chill out Coffey, who had recently been arrested. The rest was just vacation stuff. (One of the boys thinks Ferrie confused a recent hunting trip with this trip.) At about 7pm, they arrived at a restaurant in Kenner, where Ferrie spoke with another pilot who gave him a weather update. (There had been a thunderstorm earlier.) At about 9:15 they left for Houston. This all seems pretty solid. There are a few who simply dismiss Ferrie's friends as all a bunch of liars, but I don't get that impression. They were very candid with all manner of embarrasing stuff. The three did go to Winterland Rink from 3:30-5:30pm the next day. All 3 donned skates, but Ferrie was hopeless and gave up, BEFORE Chuck Rolland arrived. Somebody mentioned Ferrie's plane, a Stinson Voyager 150. He himself noted in 1961 that it had been vandalized, and others confirm that it was never airworthy again. However, Ferrie always had ACCESS to planes. Someone mentioned Ferrie's 1963 log book. A 1961 log book was found in his effects, but there were none for any other years. But FAA correspondence indicates that there was a 1966 log book in existence in early 1967. I have not been able to determine what became of it. For a number of reasons, I don't buy the Rogers account. I'll provide chapter and verse for these things in my book, but I recognize that there are some who do not agree.

A couple of quick thoughts: If you don't have them, get John Davis's Mafia Kingfish and David Sceim's Contract on America, as well as Blakey's book. I used to be heavily into the mob theory, but have softened in recent years. Nevertheless MANY people I have interviewed for my Ferrie biography have Marcello stories. Clearly, Ferrie was close to the Marcello group, at least 1963-1967. Some stories are minor, like Ferrie lending a red T-Bird to a patron at his gas station while repairing his car. The patron later found that the car belonged to one of the Marcello brothers. Some are more substantial: Ferrie brought a friend a package apparently containing tapes and papers, in case something happened to him. He later retrieved it unopened. The friend understood it to be material relating to Marcello. And a businessman told Ferrie about an investment and Ferrie showed up with 50k. Is this from your Italian friends? Yes. Well, I don't want it. Lots of interesting stuff, so you never know.