J. Raymond Carroll

Whatever you do, do NOT click on this link! http://www.amazon.com/Harvey-Oswalds-Cold-Assassination-Reinvestigated-ebook/dp/B00IXOA5ZK Good idea Greg: Do not click on Lee Oswald's Cold War because Lee knew NOTHING about the assassination.

So then give John a break and give the ad hominems a break. The Harvey/Lee theory is dead and gone, and ad hominems do nothing to help, except show your want of logic.

Jeese... can't even please you when I AGREE with you... Bugliosi groupie? Wow. That's low. Comparing Charles Manson to John Armstrong... ??? You've lost me son. I think you owe John Armstrong a public apology.

Why am I not surprised at ANOTHER meaningless response from the man DOWN UNDER! And a Bugliosi groupie, to boot!

The H & L theory has all the same hallmarks as the Warren Commission. Started with a predetermined outcome Dissent within is not allowed Alternative explanations are not countenanced Witnesses were prepped Psyop techniques utilized through particular use of language to help prop up and sell their alternative universal realities Hold on Greg, Let's not resort to defamation of character. John Armstrong is just guilty of some very sloppy and TENDENTIOUS research, as are hundreds of others. I don't know who all his followers are or what they may be up to, because I have generally ignored the Harvey/Lee controversy since 1996, and it may be that some of your characterizations are meant to apply to them and not to John himself. But I did get to know John Armstrong himself and I think I am old and experienced enoughto say that John is a person of good moral character and a helluva nice all-round guy. He believes what he says and writes even though, sadly, most of it is misguided. So by all means critique his theory, but please do not try to defame his character.

I saw John Armstrong's first presentation of his Harvey/Lee theory at a Third Decade Conference in Fredonia, in 1996 (Peter Dale Scott was the keynote speaker). I was astonished at the sloppy way Armstrong handled evidence and gave his theory no credence whatsoever. I got to know John a little bit, and found him extremely likable, but I still think his theory is for the birds. So I guess that makes the vote 10-4. That's a big 10-4!

It may interest readers to note that one of the original promoters of the Veciana story has now been exposed as a fraud. HSCA attorney Robert Tannenbaum is NOT the best-selling author he claims to be: http://www.leegoldberg.com/michael_gruber_/

Yes Paul, I have seen no evidence --in Newman's book or elsewhere-- that he knew or suspected that he was being monitored by the CIA. He was well aware of the FBI's interest, and he resented it. In 1962 the FBI interviewed him twice, decided he was harmless, and closed its file. In 1963 Hosty opened a file on Marina and came to the Paine house on two occasions, if I am recalling correctly. Lee was angry and felt that Hosty was harassing his wife, and he wrote the note that Hosty famously destroyed. I must admit that the involvement of ONI is news to me. Could you please elaborate? [Edit} Since posting the above I remembered the interview in New Orleans by FBI agent Quigley, which Newman discusses. According to Officer Martello, the interview was conducted at Lee's request, something I find hard to believe. Apparently he told Quigley that he was passing out the FPCC handbills as "a patriotic duty." I am not familiar with Bill Simpich's thoughts on this issue.

Thank you David. Wilcott's testimony is good for a laugh, especially his claim that Marina was a secret agent. Of course the HSCA did not believe him, and neither did John Newman, who had access to a great deal more of the CIA's secrets than the HSCA did. Newman's book proves beyond doubt that the CIA, namely Angleton's group, was watching Lee very carefully over a long period leading up to the assassination, but when he writes "Oswald was probably involved in CIA operations" he should have added "he was involved without his knowledge." https://books.google.com/books?id=17AtAgAAQBAJ&pg=PR12&lpg=PR12&dq=james+wilcott+hsca+oswald+cia&source=bl&ots=Y20O_fh_TV&sig=pngoZ-pPUWGN56OAcItwvVn3_I8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAmoVChMIgf3O2MKHxgIVSyCsCh0pNwCo#v=onepage&q=james%20wilcott%20hsca%20oswald%20cia&f=false I have earlier stated that Newman's book should have been entitled The CIA Vs. Lee Oswald.

Jefferson Morley recently announced on his JFK Facts site that he would be posting a video of Anthony Veciana's presentation at last year's AARC conference. As some of you know, I believe Lee Oswald knew nothing about the assassination and had nothing to do with any intelligence agency, so it follows that I never believed a word Veciana said. I have always had the highest regard for Jefferson Morley and the extreme caution he normally displays in approaching controversial subjects, so I was surprised that he seemed to be endorsing the latest version of Veciana's bunch of lies. I recently sent this message to Jeff, which is awaiting moderation before he posts it on his site: A word of caution about Anthony Veciana. He testified under oath that Phillips was NOT Bishop. Now he says he lied under oath. Most people will not accept the word of a self-admitted perjurer. I would also suggest that Veciana’s revised story leads to no new evidence, an indication that it is disinformation! Note also that Lee Oswald was in New Orleans at the time when Veciana claims he saw him in Dallas, that Veciana condoned the murder of JFK, according to his own AARC presentation, and that Veciana was convicted on Federal charges of smuggling cocaine. All in all he is not someone the JFK research community should be standing behind, IMHO.

The HSCA (pages 156-7) did find that Jack Ruby had assistance from someone inside the police department when he murdered Lee Oswald. I think that is one HSCA finding that will stand the test of time.

Thank you Vince. Just for the record, I am personally convinced that Lee Oswald knew nothing about the assassination. One of the curious facts in the case is that there was no investigation of the people living with Lee at the rooming-house on Beckley. I believe a few of them may have been transients. It seems he ordinarily left his revolver in his room there, and it would have been a simple matter for one of those roomers to obtain it, fire several rounds, keep the shells and replace the pistol without Lee ever noticing. That would explain how Tippit's killer was able to drop 4 spent revolver shells at the scene, thus tying Lee to the Tippit murder. All this would have been brought out at trial by his defense lawyer, hence the plotters had to murder him before he could speak to an attorney. BTW, let me join the chorus of those who say that your work on the Secret Service is extremely valuable and historic.

Sorry Vince, I am still confused about where you stand. Harry Livingstone wrote in Killing The Truth that "it doesn't matter whether Oswald was innocent or guilty, it doesn't even matter if he was part of the conspiracy." Jim Di Eugenio is a Garrison groupie and, as you know, Garrison accused Lee Oswald, in open court, of carrying a rifle to the TSBD "in furtherance of the plot" to kill Kennedy. I don't know what his latest work is that you refer to, so please specify. I would bet it is another anti-Oswald screed. [Edit] Just for clarification, the word "Patsy" has caused great confusion. Lee Oswald said "they've taken me in because of the fact that I lived in the Soviet Union. I'm just a Patsy." He clearly meant that he was being falsely accused, and knew nothing of any crimes. Garrison, on the other hand, took the word "Patsy" and gave it a whole new meaning. Garrison created a scenario in which Lee Oswald helped plot the assassination and carried a rifle to work in furtherance of the plot. In Garrison's scenario, Oswald agreed to take the fall for the plotters, and that was what he meant by the word "Patsy." Please specify which meaning you attribute to the word "Patsy."

OK Vince, my old friend: After all these years What is your position: Are you an Oswald accuser? If so, do you accuse him of being a conspirator? or do you accuse him of being a lone assassin? Your reply is greatly appreciated.

Hi Vince: I knew Harry fairly well over a number of years. In fact he mentions me in one of his books. My impression is that he was motivated by a strong animosity to David Lifton, and Lifton's (perfectly logical) theory that JFK's body was altered. My problem with Harry is pretty much the same problem I have with the entire research community: In Killing Kennedy he writes, "It doesn't matter whether Oswald was innocent or guilty. It doesn't even matter if he was part of the conspiracy." I see much the same attitude here and everywhere else among JFK researchers. A lack of moral clarity is the reason why the JFK research community has been going nowhere. Lee Oswald was innocent, but nobody cares.

Beware, however. The Texas Connection, by Craig Zirbel, is not much of a book, as I demonstrate in this review: http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48766&relPageId=13&search=%22raymond_carroll%22

Greetings David: I am surprised to read that you do not believe that Prayer Man is Lee Oswald. It corroborates your thesis in Best Evidence. As Sean Murphy posted on that thread, Fritz testified This testimony is supported by Fritz's notes, which records Oswald saying he was "out with Bill Shelley in front." It is not corroborated by the FBI agents only because, I believe, they had not yet arrived when Lee made this statement. The only time he could have been out with Shelley in front was just prior to and when JFK passed the building. Prayer Man's position in the corner of the entrance is not a particularly good vantage point to watch the parade, so it is unlikely that a stranger would choose it as a vantage point. As pointed out on the original Prayer Man thread all 14 of the TSBD employees who were on the steps testified that there were no strangers on the steps, everyone was a TSBD employee. Only one other employee bore a resemblance to Lee Oswald, and BIllie Lovelady is eliminated as a candidate for Prayer Man by films and by his own testimony. The images from the Darnell film may not be the best, but I submit no reasonable person can dispute that Prayer Man does resemble Lee Oswald. Given that resemblance, given the evidence that everyone on the steps was a TSBD employee; given the fact that no other employee except Lee Oswald qualifes as Prayer Man, and given the fundamental rule that the burden of proof is on Lee Oswald's accusers, then I respectfully submit that he told Fritz the literal truth when he said he had lunch out front with Bill Shelley and other employees, and saw all the excitement. If it wasn't Lee Oswald, then who was it? That is the question Lee Oswald's accusers now have to answer. After almost 2 years I have not heard a plausible alternative. You say that if he was there some employee would surely remember. As experiments and our own experience tell us, human memory is highly fallible. As RIchard Hocking pointed out on the Prayer Man thread:

Greetings everyone! I recall reading somewhere -- years ago-- a statement by Henry Wade, made on the weekend of the assassination (and before the intervention of Jack Ruby), to the effect that Lee Oswald would first be brought to trial on the charge of murdering J.D. Tippit. Alfredda Scobey points out that under Texas law the Tippit & JFK cases would have been tried in separate trials. http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n1/v1n1scobey.pdf The Warren Volumes contain press reports and transcripts of TV interviews from that weekend, but I have been unable to find this statement by Wade in the Warren volumes or with a Google search. I will be most grateful if anyone can provide a source for this statement from Henry Wade?

Fortune Favors the Bold I am Proud to say that I am a longtime member of the LONDOND FORUMN hosted by JOHN ALOYISIUS SIMKIN WEARE about to witnessthe Exoneration of PRAYERMAN LEE in STATE COURT IN TEXAS STAY TUNED HER MAJESTY ELIZABETH is still sceptical BUt PHILLIP told me on the QT it is bound to happen SEZ HE

http://kennedy-photos.blogspot.com/2012/06/thumbnails.html

Enough Irish stuff JFK Sang this song At Hyannesport http://kennedy-photos.blogspot.com/ not long before Dallas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-ldVj34Sfo

You Gotta Love British Humor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgjtXXIksu4

Thank you Ray And Seamus for reminding me of EDNA O'BRIAN A Lady From Clare Adored by Seamus And Clare People Galore http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVM-tFAdADg All roads lead to It's a Long Way to Tipperary its a long way to go Goodbye Picalliy Farewell Leicster Square So Pack Up Your Troubles

Why? Is something Wrong with you? Well Goodness Gracious Me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3A7B6qtUpU You May Need A Dose of Spike Milligan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkOAUht3G5o Ya Gotta love British Humor Everything The British say Sounds funny to Me As Famous Seamus Keeps reminding me It's All About Delight I gotta thank Ray Mitchum Like his brother Bob Mitchum brings out the best in Me Logical if you think about it His name is Ray