Thomas H. Purvis

"Wait right here! I'm going home and get my dog and bring him back to see if he believes this sh*t" Words reportedly stated by Oscar Wyatt during a corporate meeting held after his takeover of Michigan Wisconsin Pipeline Company. Words were reportedly stated during a "briefing" in which one of the "Mich/Wisc" individuals stated how well Michigan/Wisconsin Pipeline Company was doing financially. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Wyatt http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/ANR-Pipeline-Co-Company-History.html "The Oil Patch's Slickest Takeover Yet," Business Week, April 1, 1985, p. 37. Norman, James R., "Oscar Wyatt Aims at Sitting Duck,"

"These are his words and there is simply no way to prove these claims..." Quite incorrect! CE399 proves absolutely that it, and it alone, is directly responsible for the upper back/lower neck wound incurred by JFK. (Hint) The fact that the deformed base to CE399 measures 4mm X 7mm and the fact that the "punch-type" wound of entry into the back of JFK measures exactly 4mm X 7mm, should provide a clue for even those who are not "smarter than a fifth grader". If Mr Purvis actually means that CE399 did NOT pass thru JFK, but entered him EXACTLY perpendicular, base first, after tumbling thru the air after hitting a limb... I see why he prefers to state that this is the "Magic Bullet" as not only does it enter and leave perfect dimensions that match the pre-flatteneed bullet... but it too disappears. Maybe it's the bullet referred to by Belmont here: If this letter is a proven fake, please say so... thx. And then the Autopsy states it did not hit a bone: Autopsy report: The other missile entered the right superior posterior thorax above the scapula and traversed the soft tissues of the supra-scapular and the supra-clavicular portions of the base of the right side of the neck. This missile produced contusions of the right apical parietal pleura and of the apical portion of the right upper lobe of the lung. The missile contused the strap muscles of the right side of the neck, damaged the trachea and made its exit through the anterior surface of the neck. As far as can be ascertained this missile struck no bony structures in its path through the body. The FBI report may be more in line with Thomas' theory... yet where'd the bullet go? And if a pointed bullet was found on JC's stretcher as having come out of JC's thigh... even more evidence of a 2nd shooter. Sibert/O'Neill report During the latter stages of this autopsy, Dr. HUMES located an opening which appeared to be a bullet hole which was below the shoulders and two inches to the right of the middle line of the spinal column. This opening was probed by Dr. HUMES with the finger, at which time it was determined that the trajectory of the missile entering at this point had entered at a downward position of 45 to 60 degrees. Further probing determined that the distance traveled by this missile was a short distance inasmuch as the end of the opening could be felt with the finger. and from the autopsy again: 2. The second wound presumably of entry is that described above in the upper right posterior thorax. Beneath the skin there is ecchymosis of subcutaneous tissue and musculature. The missile path through the fascia and musculature cannot be easily proved. The wound presumably of exit was that described by Dr. Malcolm Perry of Dallas in the low anterior cervical region. CE399 had no blood, tissue, fibers at all on it... if the bullet entered open end first and left fragments in his chest how is it that the bullet is completely clean? Finally, Mr. Purvis, you state the rifle was ABSOLUTELY fired during the assassination event. The fact that a wound matches a bullet has no direct bearing at all as to whether a rifle was fired that day or not. Or even the fact that bullet matches that rifle... we have no idea how THAT bullet came into being... CE399 is not substantiated by anyone who supposed found it and transported it. Please explain to us novices how THAT rifle was proven to have been fired THAT day... everything I've read says you can only tell if the rifle was NOT fired - if it was cleaned prior to that day and not fired, it would still be clean... if not clean you would have to prove that the rifle was cleaned and not fired prior to that day, and then found residue from firing it. Are you able to do any of this? DJ It would be a complete waste of my time to attempt to explain forensic; ballistic; pathological; and physical fact to anyone who operates on hearsay; half-truth; rumor; innuendo; and an occassional outright lie. As a general rule, those who waste their time chasing mythological creatures (mythological multiple assassins; body kidnappers; wound alteration specialists; bullet planters; and giant conspiratorial concepts which employ virtually every agency of the U.S. Government (+ a few outsiders)) Are most unlikely to either understand the factual evidence and/or accept it when it is demonstrated to them. And no! CE399 IS NOT the "Magic Bullet". It is still with us. A principal concept of "Magic" is the ability to make something disappear. Thomas, Not wanting to engage in a conversation with supporting evidence or science is par for course.... None of what you claim to be forensic, ballistic, pathological or physical fact is supportable. and wandering off into direction unknown in your posts doesn't make you any more convincing... The only reason the "Magic Bullet" CE399 is still with us is becasue it had nothing at all to do with the injuries sustained on 11/22/63 as is with most all the other "evidence". You've got a bullet entering the body, leaving lead fragments yet emerging without a trace of evidence it was in contact with anyone. Nothing on that bullet suggests it ever came close to JFK. And I posted the studies that show how the chemical composition of the bullet fragments can be matched to a variety of bullets... or did you not even both reading something that may disagree with your unsupported opinions? And we thank Mr Knight for clarifying Thomas' CE399 position... the "oswald fired-hit the limb-tumbled thru the air-entered JFK exactly perpedicular so as to cause a 4x7mm entrance wound-and then is found where?" We can agree that all three of us know that CE399 and the SBT are inconsistent. I agree that CE399 did NOT enter JC... but I also say it did not hit anyone else for that matter. Thomas talks of reliability yet forgets the age of the MC, the age of the ammo, and the condition of both when found. He further neglects to address how Oswald even came into possession of the rifle and how the backyard photo shows a different rifle entirely. You don't even bother to address the points made in my post linked here from this thread... you simply choose not to deal with them at all. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16626&view=findpost&p=207565 FMJ bullets do NOT leave dust particles High velocity FMJ bullets do not hit flesh and muscle and simply stop short Post after post you dismiss evidence opposing your opinions as irrelevent... and offer nothing in the way of support... you bring up everything BUT what was discussed... ala the WCR... misdirect and confuse - Tell you what - answer ONE QUESTION - please explain how you can prove THAT rifle was fired THAT day and by Oswald. Thanks All these other questions that you refuse to address have nothing at all to do with it - right? How and when he built the Snipers Nest, reassembled the rifle that couldn't fit in the paper bag in Wesley's car to begin with... that no on saw him enter the building with, remove it from the garage, practice with it, clean it, purchase ammo for it... etc.... that there are no prints on these snipers nest boxes, or on the assembled rifle, clip or hulls. That he was seen on the 2nd floor as late as 12:25 and definitely at 12:15 when he should have already been at the window - not knowing exactly when the limo would pass. That he encouters Baker less than 90 seconds after the shots, in a place consistent with where he was seen 5-10 minutes before. That the rifle did not work as designed since with the chambering of the last bullet the clip should fall out... Alyea's film shows no such thing nor does any testimony mention a clip falling out when Frtiz works the bolt. Nor is there a photo of a clip at the TSBD, or the paper bag for that matter. Thomas - I have no disput with you over your knowledge of rifles and ammo, shooting and/or snipering... but your ignoring posts that offer evidence in opposition to your conclusions speaks volumes... so please just address that one question. and maybe give a little thought to the memo describing a bullet lodged behind JFK's ear while they already had the "other" bullet that hit JFK... thx DJ My appreciation for having provided a prime example as to exactly how little you know in regards to the evidence: 1. The only reason the "Magic Bullet" CE399 is still with us is becasue it had nothing at all to do with the injuries sustained on 11/22/63 as is with most all the other "evidence". Answer: Since CE399 has never disappeared, it has never exibited any qualities of "Magic". In fact, it is merely a plain ole everyday WCC Carcano bullet which is responsible for a given set of wounds. (Hint/again: Magic things are good at the ole disappearing act) 2. Thomas talks of reliability yet forgets the age of the MC, the age of the ammo, and the condition of both when found. Answer: Irrelevant as to the age of the Carcano recovered from the sixth floor, it still "bench-tested" to be as accurate as were the current (1960's) issue U.S. M-14 rifle which also still happens to be the basis for most of the standard issue sniper rifles. As regards the ammunition, it was (and still is) superior quality military grade/standard ammunition in which virtually 100 out of 100 rounds will fire with excellent results. 3. "He further neglects to address how Oswald even came into possession of the rifle and how the backyard photo shows a different rifle entirely." Answer: LHO is holding some version of the Carcano "short rifle". Since I have completely lost my "crystal ball", there exists absolutely no means by which I can define as to whether it is a 6.5mm version (Model 91/38) or whether it is is a Model 38 (7.35mm). As to where he obtained the weapon, one would most assuredly have to know firstly exactly what caliber it actually is. Nevertheless, there exists absolutely ZERO factual proof that it is not/was not the weapon which was recovered on the sixth floor of the TSDB, being the 6.5mm version which was (solely) utilized in the assassination of JFK. (note: of course there also exists absolutely no factual proof that it is the weapon which was utilized to shoot JFK with either) 4. "You've got a bullet entering the body, leaving lead fragments yet emerging without a trace of evidence it was in contact with anyone. Nothing on that bullet suggests it ever came close to JFK." Answer: Had you taken the time and effort to research CE399, then you quite possibly would come to realize exactly how completely inaccurate and non-factual the entirity of that statement is. 5. FMJ bullets do NOT leave dust particles Answer: Incorrect again! It is unknown within the realm of ballistics for an "armor piercing" round to severely fragment upon contact with any portion of the human anatomy. However, FMJ rounds commonly do so, leaving behind tremendous amounts of their inner lead core, after impact bone. Last time I checked, they did not refer to it as "skull bone" for any reason other than it being just that!---BONE! 6. High velocity FMJ bullets do not hit flesh and muscle and simply stop short Answer: First off, for the record, the Carcano, at 2,000 to 2,200 fps does not quite qualify as "high velocity". Although it is very close and falls within the upper range of the "medium" velocity weapons. Lastly, you can rest assured that many, many, many bullets have begun their sojurn towards a target only to ultimately penetrate that target for a short distance as a result of having it's velocity interrupted in flight. 7. Tell you what - answer ONE QUESTION - please explain how you can prove THAT rifle was fired THAT day and by Oswald. Answer: First off, since I was in Athens, Ohio working at the time of the assassination, I have no proof (other than what already exists) as to who assassinated JFK. Merely that all evidence points to LHO as the most probable person. Secondly, the bullets themselves tell a prudent person that they were fired from the assassination weapon.

"These are his words and there is simply no way to prove these claims..." Quite incorrect! CE399 proves absolutely that it, and it alone, is directly responsible for the upper back/lower neck wound incurred by JFK. (Hint) The fact that the deformed base to CE399 measures 4mm X 7mm and the fact that the "punch-type" wound of entry into the back of JFK measures exactly 4mm X 7mm, should provide a clue for even those who are not "smarter than a fifth grader". If Mr Purvis actually means that CE399 did NOT pass thru JFK, but entered him EXACTLY perpendicular, base first, after tumbling thru the air after hitting a limb... I see why he prefers to state that this is the "Magic Bullet" as not only does it enter and leave perfect dimensions that match the pre-flatteneed bullet... but it too disappears. Maybe it's the bullet referred to by Belmont here: If this letter is a proven fake, please say so... thx. And then the Autopsy states it did not hit a bone: Autopsy report: The other missile entered the right superior posterior thorax above the scapula and traversed the soft tissues of the supra-scapular and the supra-clavicular portions of the base of the right side of the neck. This missile produced contusions of the right apical parietal pleura and of the apical portion of the right upper lobe of the lung. The missile contused the strap muscles of the right side of the neck, damaged the trachea and made its exit through the anterior surface of the neck. As far as can be ascertained this missile struck no bony structures in its path through the body. The FBI report may be more in line with Thomas' theory... yet where'd the bullet go? And if a pointed bullet was found on JC's stretcher as having come out of JC's thigh... even more evidence of a 2nd shooter. Sibert/O'Neill report During the latter stages of this autopsy, Dr. HUMES located an opening which appeared to be a bullet hole which was below the shoulders and two inches to the right of the middle line of the spinal column. This opening was probed by Dr. HUMES with the finger, at which time it was determined that the trajectory of the missile entering at this point had entered at a downward position of 45 to 60 degrees. Further probing determined that the distance traveled by this missile was a short distance inasmuch as the end of the opening could be felt with the finger. and from the autopsy again: 2. The second wound presumably of entry is that described above in the upper right posterior thorax. Beneath the skin there is ecchymosis of subcutaneous tissue and musculature. The missile path through the fascia and musculature cannot be easily proved. The wound presumably of exit was that described by Dr. Malcolm Perry of Dallas in the low anterior cervical region. CE399 had no blood, tissue, fibers at all on it... if the bullet entered open end first and left fragments in his chest how is it that the bullet is completely clean? Finally, Mr. Purvis, you state the rifle was ABSOLUTELY fired during the assassination event. The fact that a wound matches a bullet has no direct bearing at all as to whether a rifle was fired that day or not. Or even the fact that bullet matches that rifle... we have no idea how THAT bullet came into being... CE399 is not substantiated by anyone who supposed found it and transported it. Please explain to us novices how THAT rifle was proven to have been fired THAT day... everything I've read says you can only tell if the rifle was NOT fired - if it was cleaned prior to that day and not fired, it would still be clean... if not clean you would have to prove that the rifle was cleaned and not fired prior to that day, and then found residue from firing it. Are you able to do any of this? DJ It would be a complete waste of my time to attempt to explain forensic; ballistic; pathological; and physical fact to anyone who operates on hearsay; half-truth; rumor; innuendo; and an occassional outright lie. As a general rule, those who waste their time chasing mythological creatures (mythological multiple assassins; body kidnappers; wound alteration specialists; bullet planters; and giant conspiratorial concepts which employ virtually every agency of the U.S. Government (+ a few outsiders)) Are most unlikely to either understand the factual evidence and/or accept it when it is demonstrated to them. And no! CE399 IS NOT the "Magic Bullet". It is still with us. A principal concept of "Magic" is the ability to make something disappear.

Sorry Jack, that's not even a matter of opinion. 19 out of 20 who voted Fetzer out of the 9/11 organisation do not agree. I doubt this would have had anything to do with them considering him "the foremost authority..". I strongly believe it was quite the opposite. There's no way to get around that, Fetzer was thrown out. Period. Glenn For once Fetzer is sorta right. Since he found Scholars for Truth and had the rights to the name those who didn't like the way he was doing things decided to pull up stakes and started Scholars for Truth and Justice, a rival group. If it is my understanding that most of the active members joined the exodus, the loony fringe Reynolds, Woods, Tarpley, Madsen stayed or joined. A miniscule number supported Fetzer and who could be surprised by this outcome? Not even within the obscure organisations started by himself with himself in charge does he get support. Instead people are turning their back on him and his methods, which was the point. After having seen how he treats people here, indeed perfectly understandable. Just look in this thread, Mark Knight - a "disinformation agent". Fetzer had no qualms in labeling me "a spy", "an insider", "having stolen secret information" etc, etc. No wonder people stand up against this lunacy. Edit. This is what I was talking about: http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/patriots_question/index.html#fetzer "By the end of about one year, the situation had gotten so dire that some of the members, including Steven Jones, decided they could no longer allow Fetzer to control the website, and decided to take a vote on what to do, since Fetzer refused to remove the offending posts. Eventually, after several weeks involving hundreds of emails attempting to resolve the situation, a poll and subsequent vote was taken of the membership via email. All but ten of the more than two hundred members who participated in the vote voted to leave Fetzer's original group and form a new group. Thirty people, including the ten, voted to join both groups. ( For more information on the split, please see: Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice: FAQ )" The article leaves no doubts as to how they look upon Fetzer, in case anyone thought so. A typical trademark of Fetzer is that not only are others wrong for not agreeing to all of his clownish BS-theories. No, they are disinformants, government agents, insiders, liars or something similar. When hard evidence is presented that goes against him, like for instance court decisions related to the JVB scam, Fetzer's immediately, with his big mouth wide open, deeming it "drivel!!" and worse, because Fetzer does not know what judicially constitutes evidence. Instead. Fetzer who knows absolutely zero of the judicial world, spends three months screaming his throat off, "look at all the evidence that JVB is the real deal". None, of course, which have yet been presented. So it's certainly only to be expected to see him denying that there was a vote where an overwhelming majority voted against him. And it's to be expected that "I don't know what I'm talking about", another trademark Fetzer rant, used hundreds of times in the JVB thread against non-believers, and for years elsewhere in this forum. So of course he wants to dismiss Victoria Ashleys article. On the other hand, Fetzer himself has no hesitations about quoting a certified crackpot like David "reptiles-have-taken-over-the-human-race" Icke. Pretty soon I would expect Fetzer's version to turn this catastrophic vote of deep mistrust into a vote of confidence, positive on his behalf. That's how Fetzer normally handles facts and the truth. My two cats have better judgment than Fetzer and are far more reliable. Neither are they offending anyone as soon as they open their mouth. The simple facts are that Fetzer published a variety of deeply offending, unsubstantiated stuff, was completely and utterly impossible to work with and furthermore, was a public relations disaster. Qualities that Fetzer during the six months I've been a member of this forum has displayed with the utmost enthusiasm on numerous occasions. You don't fool me with your highly immature antics and your BS. EDIT: Oh, I forgot. I would quote Josiah Thompson 365/24/7 over your outlandish crap, no matter what the subject is. JT is a decent man and a researcher, none of which applies to you. Overall!------Clearly one of the most intelligent post to occur in quite an extended period of time. Specifically[b]!----"My two cats have better judgment than Fetzer and are far more reliable. Neither are they offending anyone as soon as they open their mouth."[/b] Wish that I had come up with that one! Tom P.S. Which, says what for those who actually believe much of what he expouses.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_santafe.html

Mark: http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_alpine.html Mr. Penney founded National Ordnance, and in Fall of 1962 separated from National Ordnance, manufacturing the carbines that bear the Alpine name. In November and December 1960, Alpine Sales placed the below retail mail order advertisement in The American Rifleman. The carbines Alpine sold, were the first National Ordnance carbines. The response from these ads sold every National Ordnance carbine in stock Penney estimated approximately 250-300+ Alpine M1 carbines were sold with the receiver drilled and tapped with a scope mounted. The scopes were manufactured by Ordnance Optics, another company owned by Penney. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.boiseshooters.com/index.php?action=printpage;topic=5864.0 He hires Robert Penney to run the gun shop. Bob Penney came up with the new name for the gun shop, Pasadena Firearms. Pasadena Firearms is established before Golden State Arms is incorporated in 1952. As Mr. Gettler’s import business grows, Pasadena Firearms is moved to 1165 E. Colorado Boulevard Pasadena, CA. (Reference: Jim’s interview with Bob Penney) 1952 Golden State Arms incorporates. Tom's note: Golden State was one of the largest dealers in used military surplus and claimed to be the largest. They were one of the first to begin to acquire the used Carcano rifles and offer them for sale. The earliest add which I currently have dates to 1957 and if from a "Mechanix Illustrated" magazine in which the Model 38 Short Rifle (7.35mm caliber) was offered for sale cheap. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Back to: http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_alpine.html There was no way of knowing where the rifle had come from, other than it was a surplus Italian military rifle that had been imported into the United States in quantities exceeding tens of thousands. Ordnance Optics, on the other hand, had been owned by Robert E. Penney Jr. Penney had sold Ordnance Optics to Martin B. Retting in Culver City, CA. However, he was aware the Ordnance Optics scopes had not been sold individually or unmounted. They had all been sold to one of Penney's largest customers, Kleins of Chicago. Klein's sold them only as part of a package deal, mounted on Italian Carcanos Tom's note: Yeah but! What about all those "Ordnance Optics" scopes which you owned and were installing on the "ALPINE" M1 Carbines. And, what about all of those Ordnance Optics scopes you owned back when you were a partner in Golden State Arms which was selling various Carcano rifles by the truckload. And, what about all of those "machine shop" access's which you had working for you which could make and/or stamp just about any name, number, and or serial number one could desire on any weapon. Certainly is a "similarity" between the "CAL." stamp on the ALPINE Carbine and the "CAL." stamp on a Carcano.

"I just want to know if there are any contradictions to the agreed-upon findings." "Contradictions"---absolutely. Unfortunately the great majority have absolutely no factual reliability. There exists absolutely ZERO forensic; ballistic; pathological; and/or physical fact which would demonstrate that the back wound is anything other than a legitimate wound of entry. Plus, there are no witness statements which would indicate otherwise as well. To the contrary, there exists a multitude of FACT which clearly demonstrates that CE399 (and only CE399) is in fact totally responsible for the upper back/lower neck wound incurred by JFK. If (and when) one ceases to listen to the opinions of all (myself inclulded) and then begins to evaluate the factual evidence, the conclusion is actually relatively simple.

"These are his words and there is simply no way to prove these claims..." Quite incorrect! CE399 proves absolutely that it, and it alone, is directly responsible for the upper back/lower neck wound incurred by JFK. (Hint) The fact that the deformed base to CE399 measures 4mm X 7mm and the fact that the "punch-type" wound of entry into the back of JFK measures exactly 4mm X 7mm, should provide a clue for even those who are not "smarter than a fifth grader".

"if my understanding of Mr.Purvis' position on CE399 are basically correct." Actually! It is exactly correct! (Note: see the cone-shaped/flat-based fragment of CE840 for the lead protrusion which squeezed out the base of CE399 and was subsequently sheared as a result of impact with a bone of the vertebral column. TEmptyPockets@aol.com Request that you email me Mark.

"Would a top and to the right alignment of the scope account for wind conditions?" Rifle to target distance was so short that no one would even consider any compensation for "drift" created by the wind. Basically, four items had to be compensated for in the sighting of the cross-hairs of the scope. 1. Short range of target distance. http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/emary.html " A gun can be set up to be zeroed at 100 yards with the proper height front sight. You will probably have difficulty finding Carcano sights tall enough to accomplish this." *However, one does not require a sight that is approximately 2-inches higher (as was the addition of the scope). So, if one added a scope and then ran the "horizontal" crosshair well to the bottom of the sight reticle,then one could easily utilize the scope to compensate for what could not be compensated for with the fixed sights of the Model 91/38 Carcano, and thereby "sight" the weapon for accurate shooting of ranges of 100 yards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosshair 2. Far-left "off center" alignment of actual scope. Which would require one to run the "vertical" line/crosshair well to the right of the scope reticle in order to compensate for the scope "offset" due to left-side mounting. 3. An advantage to the scope being mounted on the left-side of the weapon involves the ability to utilize the scope for "parallax" compensation. The degree of parallax within the sight picture is of course directly related to which eye one utilizes in aiming. This also affects the adjustment of the vertical crosshair in regards to the effects of #2 above. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle_scope#Parallax_compensation 4. "Spot-weld" alignment of cheek onto the stock of the weapon. Which is affected by a number of items, and most specifically being the actual length of one's arms and how they affect placement of the stock/butt of the weapon into the armpit during sighting. ========================================================================================= All in all, a "fixed-sight" weapon would be a poor choice for any attempt at assassination. However, when one adds the scope, which can be utilized to compensate for a variety of sighting errors, to include close range shooting, then it becomes far more understandable as to why the scope would have been necessary for the short-range shooting in Dealey Plaza. http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/emary.html The Carcano rifles are capable of outstanding accuracy. With the exception of a military issue type load in the short carbines they are very pleasant to shoot from a recoil standpoint. Because of the above mentioned sight picture for the Carcano, front sight in the bottom of the rear sight notch, it is very important to have a consistent stock-cheek weld for consistent accuracy. I have with my accuracy marked M38 Short Rifle shot groups under 1” at 100 yards with the norm being 1.5” – 2.0”. The Carcano rifle is a well made rifle that is by no means weak or poorly manufactured. They are reliable and strong rifles that are fun to shoot and offer a tremendous variety of types and markings for the collector. I will admit that they are a rather utilitarian rifle as compared to some others. However, they are probably one of the most efficient, cost effective, user friendly battle rifles produced in their era. The rifle, ammunition combination properly loaded is capable of accuracy that will rival the most accurate of the Mauser chamberings. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So much for the mounds of BS about the "poor" capabilities of the Carcano!

"Would a top and to the right alignment of the scope account for wind conditions?" Rifle to target distance was so short that no one would even consider any compensation for "drift" created by the wind. Basically, four items had to be compensated for in the sighting of the cross-hairs of the scope. 1. Short range of target distance. http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/emary.html " A gun can be set up to be zeroed at 100 yards with the proper height front sight. You will probably have difficulty finding Carcano sights tall enough to accomplish this." *However, one does not require a sight that is approximately 2-inches higher (as was the addition of the scope). So, if one added a scope and then ran the "horizontal" crosshair well to the bottom of the sight reticle,then one could easily utilize the scope to compensate for what could not be compensated for with the fixed sights of the Model 91/38 Carcano, and thereby "sight" the weapon for accurate shooting of ranges of 100 yards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosshair 2. Far-left "off center" alignment of actual scope. Which would require one to run the "vertical" line/crosshair well to the right of the scope reticle in order to compensate for the scope "offset" due to left-side mounting. 3. An advantage to the scope being mounted on the left-side of the weapon involves the ability to utilize the scope for "parallax" compensation. The degree of parallax within the sight picture is of course directly related to which eye one utilizes in aiming. This also affects the adjustment of the vertical crosshair in regards to the effects of #2 above. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle_scope#Parallax_compensation 4. "Spot-weld" alignment of cheek onto the stock of the weapon. Which is affected by a number of items, and most specifically being the actual length of one's arms and how they affect placement of the stock/butt of the weapon into the armpit during sighting. ========================================================================================= All in all, a "fixed-sight" weapon would be a poor choice for any attempt at assassination. However, when one adds the scope, which can be utilized to compensate for a variety of sighting errors, to include close range shooting, then it becomes far more understandable as to why the scope would have been necessary for the short-range shooting in Dealey Plaza.

Your point is well taken, as well as being "almost" true. Nevertheless, the "factual" aspects are being published as we speak. Merely that they have to shovel almost 40-years of BS/manure aside in order to be heard. 1. There was a "lone assassin". 2. The WC is an intentional obfuscation (lie if you will) of the simple facts of the assassination. 3. This, to many, is an "oxymoron"!

"In fact, the particle cloud in JFK's skull contradicts this weapon AND this ammunition..." Only to those who have not taken the time and effort to understand the forensic and ballistic facts as to how and why this full metal jacketed bullet fragmented in the manner in which it did. "When those bullets or fragments were fired, where they come from as evidence and where they come from when/where purchased are still big questions." In event that one is a follower of the all encompassing "planted bullet" theory, then it is most unlikely that any of the factual evidence will ever be believed. However! 1. CE399, to the exclusion of ALL other weapons, was fired from the recovered 6.5mm Model 91/38 Carcano Short Rifle that was found/recovered on the sixth floor of the TSDB. 2. Portions of the copper jacket to the bullet which severely fragmented as a result of the impact to the head of JFK were ballistically matched, to the excludion of ALL other weapons, to the recovered 6.5mm Model 91/38 Carcano Short Rifle that was found/recovered on the sixth floor of the TSDB. 3. The bullet that fragmented as a result of impact to the head of JFK also fractured the front windshield of the Presidential Limousine, as well as, to a high degree of probability, is also responsible for the dent in the windshield molding. Now, for anyone who is of the opinion that there is some logic as to "planting" CE399, when it is not normal for a 6.5mm Carcano bullet to fragment in the manner that the head shot impact did, as Mr. Spock would declare, "this is not logical". Likewise, one would have to assume that persons (unknown) who were at Parkland planting CE399, were also in cahoots with FBI & SS personnel who were busy somewhere along the line planting bullet fragments,which matched the assassination weapon, to be found in the Presidential Limo. The bullets "came from" Western Cartridge Company, and when they were purchased is irrelevant as to the facts that they were fired from the recovered assassination weapon. For all that I know, they may have been won in a poker game, which too would be irrelevant to the fact that these bullets were fired from the recovered assassination weapon and were ABSOLUTELY fired during the actual assassination event. The bullets/fragments have themselves proven this fact! Unless of course one believes in and follows the giant/encompassing "Planted Bullet (& planted fragments as well I might add) BS. P.S. Not that you are likely to believe it either, but if one will follow ALL of the eyewitness statements they will find that sufficient witness testimony exists to document that each of the three shots fired in the assassination sequence were observed to have been fired from the window of the sixth floor of the TSDB.

Actually! It is irresponsible thinking that ultimate becomes "dangerous" and can lead to unsupported as well as erroneous conclusions. The 7.35mm version of the Model 38 Carcano Short Rifle had been for sale through everything up to and including "Mechanix Illustrated" since the late 50's. Thousands of these weapons were sold off cheaply as being excellent hunting weapons. Which no doubt leads to why many of this same make/model/caliber weapon ended up in the Cuban revolution. In fact, this weapon and it's inherent accuracy lead many to believe (erroneously) that the Carcano (whatever make and/or model) was a relatively reliable and accurate weapon. This, the initial sale of the 7.35mm version of the Short Rifle, more or less "opened the door" for the mass sale of the other makes/models to unsuspecting persons who did not know what a "Model 91/24" (long rifle cut down to carbine length) was, as well as how totally inaccurate this weapon also was. As to the "clip", the 7.35mm version and the 6.5mm version utilize the exact same clip. About the only significent difference in the actual weapons is an item that causes confusion when one attempts to "quote" certain aspects. One model was ZEROED for 200 yards, and one was ZEROED for 300 yards.-----I do not even recall which was which at this point. Nevertheless, one could practice with either caliber weapon and could thereafter immediately switch to the other caliber, and in reality never suffer any loss of efficiency as the only difference was the actual bore diameter of the barrel and the chamber size to accept the 7.35 round. From the FBI records, there was a whole lot of target practice shooting of the 7.35mm as well as 6.5mm Carcano that was taking place around Dallas shortly prior to the assassination. There was also some specific 7.35mm ammo box recovered in New Orleans which was cast off as being of no significance due to it having been the wrong caliber. So: 1. The 7.35mm as well as the 6.5mm Carcano Short Rifle is an extremely accurate weapon. 2. The Carcano (in various makes, models, & calibers was utilized during the Cuban/Castro revolution. 3. The weapon was readily available in Cuba. 4. The 7.35mm Italian ammo is quite reliable. 5. WCC produced highly reliable 6.5mm Carcano ammunition. 6. If one acquires one make/model and becomes proficient with it, there is virtually no loss of efficiencey should they ultimately end up with the other make/model. So long as one can count on having the reliable WCC ammo. 7. Cuba had come to "frown" upon one attempting to enter country who was also attempting to "BYOR" (Bring Your Own Rifle). 8. If, one could become proficient with either make/model of the Short Rifle on US soil, this proficiency would hold true for either make/model if they went to Cuba and were handed either version of the Short Rifle. ==================================================================================================================================================== All of which is speculation! However, considering LHO's activities, it appears to have considerable supporting evidence that this was what the "CARCANO" was actually all about. P.S. "there's no paper trail linking that gun to him. Likewise, there's no evidence that Oswald bought, stole, was given, or otherwise obtained any ammunition for a 7.35 mm rifle...same as there is no evidence that he obtained any 6.5mm ammo." When one takes into consideration that the 7.35 model (as well as ammo) was sold from as early as 1959, by various firms from East to West Coast, who knows if ole "A.J.Hidell" did or did not order one of these weapons. That I recall, only "Klein's Sporting Goods" was checked out. And, since one merely signed the order form more or less "promising" that he was who he claimed to be, then Carcano rifles (as well as ammo) could have easily been ordered from any number of other locations. In fact, since Oswald was in fact stationed in California just prior to leaving the service for the Soviet Union, he could have easily purchased one of these weapons directly. Of course, we will never know at this late date unless someone is willing to expend more time and money than even I have expended on this subject matter.

Mark: Run this one up the flagpole. 1. LHO was being "groomed" through the trip to the Soviet Union to insure that he could get into Cuba, whereas Castro was primarily ejecting all but true supporters of his revolution. With the "radar" background, as well as the Russian trip, LHO would normally have had little difficulty (from Castro's government) in getting into Cuba. Especially with a Russian wife. 2. The Carcano was a popular weapon of the Cuban Revolution. (If recalled I once posted a photo which showed revolutionaries in Cuba holding these weapons. These weapons were commonly utilized throughout the Revolution and were readily available in the 6.5mm as well as the 7.35mm versions. 3. Surely you have been to a "BOB" bar! (Bring your own Bottle). During the Cuban Revolution it was much the same, except that it was a "BOR"/Bring your own Rifle, as many of the revolultionaries brought their own weapons and ammunition. With this, even after Castro had full control, there were many weapons (too include Carcano's) that were still available to aspiring individuals who wanted to start another revolution against Castro. 4. The Model 91/38 Carcano provided an ideal "training" weapon stateside, as one could readily find the weapon in the 6.5mm as well as 7.35mm version in Cuba. And, the weapons were, for all practical purposes, exactly the same weapon. So, if one were proficient with one, then they would be able to operate and fire the other with little or no difference in accuracy. 5. Although the WCC Carcano ammo was available, the 7.35mm Carcano ammo (Italian Manufacture) is, and was quite reliable ammunition as well. Therefore, whether one ended up with the 6.5mm version with WCC ammo, or the 7.35mm version with the Italian manufacture ammo, they still had a highly reliable weapon system. 6. Do not completely "discard" all of those stories in regards to individuals who were being paid to smuggle into Cuba some 7.35mm Carcano rifles, as well as all of the shooting which transpired around Dallas with similar ammunition. 7. And, since Castro had pretty well clamped down on anyone coming to visit Cuba, who wanted to bring his own Browning; Remington; Colt; etc; etc., then it was best, if one intended to shoot someone while there, to utilize the weapons at hand. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Lastly, to date, there is absolutely no way in which one can distinguish whether LHO is holding a Model 38 (7.35mm) Short Rifle, or if he is holding a Model 91/38 (6.5mm) Short Rifle. All that can be stated as fact is that JFK was assassinated by a 6.5mm Model 91/38 Short Rifle, which weapon was found on the sixth floor of the TSDB.

Glad to see that you are still out there gathering what bits of information may be relevant. Tom P.S. Elevation of Zapruder's camera vs elevation of lamp post base, play heavily on the "lean" which helps to place the lamp post globe farther to the right in the Z-film.

It is "killer", as in the singular person. And I might add, he was caught, shot to death, and is buried there in Dallas.

Survey "rule of thumb"! 1-degree = 1-foot @ 100 feet. Therefore, approximately 9-degrees is almost 18-feet at approximately 200-feet. Now! Want to take a guess as to the approximate distances from Zapruder's position to the "TWO" seperate "BOND" locations. Which by the way, happen to be seperated by approximately 17.5 feet. Might want to check that lamp-post base alignment with the top of the lamp (globe) alignment, and exactly why it is that the Bond photo's are almost as straight lined as one would get in alignment of the instrument and two range poles. Yet! What does the Z-film show?

What difference does it make how much experience Dr. Perry had with wounds caused by military bullets? The fact remains that the ballistics tests performed for the Warren Commission at Edgewood Arsenal by Dr. Alfred Olivier proved that typical exit wounds created by "Oswald’s" rifle at a distance of 180 feet (approximately the distance from the TSBD to the Presidential limousine at Zapruder frame 224) were 10 to 15 mm; at least twice the size of the wound in Kennedy’s throat. (5H77, 17H846) http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0026b.htm http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0027a.htm http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0032b.htm Might want to pay especially close attention to the last statement.

What difference does it make how much experience Dr. Perry had with wounds caused by military bullets? The fact remains that the ballistics tests performed for the Warren Commission at Edgewood Arsenal by Dr. Alfred Olivier proved that typical exit wounds created by "Oswald’s" rifle at a distance of 180 feet (approximately the distance from the TSBD to the Presidential limousine at Zapruder frame 224) were 10 to 15 mm; at least twice the size of the wound in Kennedy’s throat. (5H77, 17H846) http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0026b.htm http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0027a.htm http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/html/WC_Vol6_0032b.htm

Approximately 9-degrees to the left! Too bad that no one remembers the question! Three names come to mind that may want to find the question. 1. Those who provide quality photo's as a courtesy to researchers. 2. Those who have taken quality photo's and provided them for research. 3. Those who are attempting to make some sense as to the WHY? of potential alteration to the Z-film.

In event that you determine facts based on hearsay; half-truths; innuendo; and plain ole everyday BS, then you will no doubt continue to feed the coffers of those who promote such speculative options as body snatchers and mythological multiple assassins. Anyone who knows anything at all about the evidence is aware of what created the damage to the limousine. Especially considering that this topic has been "discussed to death" here as well as on virtually every other JFK assassination forum. Anyone who knows anything at all would be aware that absolutely ZERO evidence of any strike to the pavement and/or sidewalk was found, anywhere, with the exception of the small mark on the curb which may or may not be related to the Tague injury. This too has been relatively well "beat to death" here and elsewhere. As to the "possible sign hit"! Get real! There is not now nor has there ever been a single iota of evidence related to the possibility of any bullet having struck the road sign. This was "dreamed up" by someone who lacked sufficient intellectual capacity to come up with an alternative, logical, and factual answer as to why the road sign was removed and relocated at a later date. Recognizing that the saying "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up" definitely and difinitively holds true here, this post is primarily for those who like to deal with the factual evidence. Three shots!----------------Three hits! But then again, in recognizing how "simple minded" I actually am, I have to keep this as simple as possible in order to grasp the overall concept.

1. Exactly who all would have been looking upwards six stories high for what would have been an unidentifiable reflection even if seen, when the President of the US as well as the Vice President of the US is driving down the street directly in front of you? 2. There has always been (and no doubt will continue to be) "big bucks" in the illicit gun trade. Does not mean that everyone is a mal-content. Just means that few are opposed to the good ole "Capitalistic" system and the opportunity to make money by whatever means offers the fastest rate of return on investment. As shocking as it may seem, some of the weapons suppliers are not above selling arms and ammunition to opposing groups.------Just good business. PS. Shooting from "out of sight" through a scope is somewhat like attempting to take a photograph of a sunny location while taking the photo from within a shaded area. The closer one gets to the light source, the better the quality of the image seen through the optics.

P.S. Although I have not read the book by Robert Oswald (brother of LHO), Lee, as well as Robert acquired their interest in marksmanship primarily from the older half-brother John Pic. John Pic was on the rifle/marksmanship team at Port Gibson Military Academy. This interest of course carried over into Robert Oswalds USMC service, and LHO now had the relative excellent shooting ability of John Pic, as well as his older brothers USMC service to continue to feed his interest in rifle marksmanship. And, as long ago stated, were it not for extenuating circumstances, LHO would have most probably fired within the "EXPERT" rating of the USMC.