Thomas Graves

So John Kelin wrote in 1995, "It appears this is an area requiring additional research." http://spot.acorn.ne...e/painepix.html That was eighteen years ago. I wonder if anyone ever got around to actually doing it... --Tommy

Does anyone know if Walt Brown was ever able to start a Jay Harrison Research Center? Thanks, --Tommy

Excellent article, Bill. IMHO worthy of a bump. --Tommy Question: Was LCDR Terri Pike a "USN" (active duty) or "USNR" (Reserve) officer? Your article says both USN and USNR. It's my impression that everyone who worked for the ONI was either a civilian or in the Navy Reserve. bumped with a question added

Excellent article, Bill. IMHO worthy of a bump. --Tommy Question: Was LCDR Terri Pike a "USN" (active duty) or "USNR" (Reserve) officer? Your article says both USN and USNR. It's my impression that everyone who worked for the ONI was either a civilian or in the Navy Reserve.

Scott, maybe you find this helpfull http://jfkassassinat...12/defector.htm http://www.jfk-info.com/verb-4.htm Dave Weaver certainly did a good job as far as posting the link references, they are certainly illuminating. I for one have alway's been intrigued with the 'body of information' flowing from Mother Russia since the early day's of my interest in the JFK saga, but especially with the release of Oleg Nechiporenko's book as well as Mailer's. In hindsight, it may appear to some that 'all the usual suspects' were still hanging around offering their 'insight's' [see Priscilla McMillan]. If I were to offer a voice in the wilderness type of admonition, it would be that Hal Verb basically is the only person interested in anything other than 'status quo commentary' when it comes to 'the aforementioned activities in Russia.' It's like reading 'Ruth Paine's Garage,' yes very insightful and worth a look, until you realize that Mrs Paine was requesting info on LHO six years before the assassination. Of course, when such garbage as the above tome becomes material for 'inquirin mind's' you get a basic idea of 'what's wrong with this picture.' (emphasis added by T. Graves)Robert, Where did you read that Ruth Paine was requesting information on Oswald six years before the assassination? That's fascinating! Thanks, --Tommy

Robert Steel was the brother of Margaret Hoover. In the third week of October, Mrs. Hoover found an envelope in her front yard. Inside the envelope was an advertisement. On the back of the advertisement were the words Lee Oswald, Rubenstein, Jack Ruby, and Dallas, Texas. (emphasis added by T. Graves) See the FBI Harris Report of December 2, 1963 pages 6-7. http://www.maryferre...amp;relPageId=7 Steve Thomas Incorrect Information, Steve. I have it from an authoritative source that Robert D. Steel (no third "e") of San Diego, California (for whom we were looking) was not the brother of Margaret Hoover, and that a certain "Robert M. Steele" of Altoona, Pennsylvania was. http://www.pa-roots....6573#msg-436573 --Tommy

[...] Steele: Did clandestine, covert action and technical collection work for counterintelligence programs. Once named on the list of the top 100 "unsung heroes who helped create the future." Multilingual. Perhaps it was with tongue firmly in cheek that in 1992, he formed a company called OSS? (emphasis added by T. Graves) Greg, et al.-- The "Robert D. Steele (Vivas)" who founded a company called "OSS" was born July 16, 1952, making him only 11 years old in November of 1963. http://en.wikipedia....rt_David_Steele --Tommy

Bill, I called the San Diego Public Library's "California Room" today, where they have a bunch of old San Diego telephone books. The nice young woman tried looking up Robert D. Steel at 7960 June Lake Drive for me in both the regular and "criss-cross" 1962 and 1963 phone books. According to the librarian, 7960 June Lake Drive was "under construction" in 1962 and "vacant" in 1963. (I did a little of my own "research" and found some online real estate listing companies which say that that house was built in 1963.) She didn't have anyone by the name of "Robert D. Steel" in San Diego in those phone books, nor did she have a "Robert Steel" living anywhere on June Lake Drive. She did, however, have a "Doris E. Steel" living at 7992 June Lake Drive (which was also built in 1963 according to the internet)... [deleted] --Tommy P.S. Where's Tom Scully when we really need him? LOL

Thanks Stephen, Does that mean I shouldn't believe everything I read that was written by a fellow conspiracy theorist/"researcher"? Darn! LOL --Tommy

There is a relatively easy way to verify who is the "record" owner of real estate. This would require some work (therefore cost) with a New Orleans Title Co. I tend to doubt EHH owned the property. ____________________________ But wouldn't it be very interesting if he did??? Looking forward to updates on this. Just one more CIA tie-in if true. Dawn Dawn, Unfortunately, it looks like John G. was unable to ever verify this with Craig Roberts. Maybe it isn't true after all? --Tommy

Speaking of "the concrete structure along the west side of Houston Street," could that be the "Rip Robertson" and "John Adrian O'Hare" figures standing next to each other in the middle of said structure in the upper right-hand corner of Z-205? Both are wearing hats. The one on the left is in a brown suit, the one on the right is in a dark blue or black suit, and they are watching JFK and Jackie going down Elm Street. Could they have run across Houston Street after the Queen Mary had passed by to get to this excellent vantage point for the upcoming "hit?" http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z205.jpg --Tommy

Well, Josh. Mr. Towner was a former military officer (Lt. Colonel) and probably realized that a man standing at a window on an upper floor of a building on a near hairpin turn part of the president's motorcade route posed a potential risk to the life of the president. Apparently Mr. Towner noticed only this one guy standing at any of the windows (because he only mentioned this one guy). I would think that this one guy standing at an upper floor window would look a lot more suspicious than several people standing at different windows. --Tommy P.S. You ask, "What stood out about this man that it warranted police attention?". I would call it "police inattention" in that it was not reported by the policeman concerned.

Josh, Thanks for posting that. Does she say how long before the assassination that happened? The Towner family was there from about 11 o'clock on. I wonder who that policeman was? http://www.copweb.be...ley Plaza-4.htm --Tommy (edited and bumped)

Josh, Thanks for posting that. I assume this was (at least) a few minutes before the assassination. I wonder who that policeman was? --Tommy

[...] The confrontation ended on October 28, 1962,[7] when Kennedy and United Nations Secretary-General U Thant reached an agreement with Khrushchev. Publicly, the Soviets would dismantle their offensive weapons in Cuba and return them to the Soviet Union, subject to United Nations verification, in exchange for a US public declaration and agreement never to invade Cuba. Secretly, the US agreed that it would dismantle all US-built Jupiter IRBMs deployed in Turkey and Italy. [...] (emphasis added) http://en.wikipedia...._missile_crisis --Tommy

Douglas, Thanks for posting this thought-provoking article. --Tommy Tommy, I agree that the article is thought-provoking, which is why I posted it, but still believe its intent is a calculated attempt to discredit President Kennedy on one of the major achievements of his administration. Douglas, Here's another thought-provoking article which puts Kennedy in a much better light but says that the pulling out of the Soviet missiles from Cuba and the U.S. missiles from Turkey was the result of a "secret compromise." http://www.bostonglo...g3PM/story.html --Tommy

Douglas, Thanks for posting this thought-provoking article. --Tommy

Larry, Could the name in the document that looks to you like "Poreurillo" possibly be "Porretto" instead, as in Joseph Porretto (aka Peretto aka Poretto)? Porretto was a New Orleans mafioso associated with Nofio Pecora. Thanks, --Tommy

Larry, Could the name in the document that looks to you like "Poreurillo" possibly be "Porretto" instead, as in Joseph Porretto (aka Peretto aka Poretto)? He was a New Orleans mafia guy associated with Nofio Pecora... Thanks, --Tommy

Maybe the decrepit old man was E Howard Hunt. He was said to have been a master of disguises... --Tommy

Hi Greg, FWIW, I've always wondered: What was the guy who was standing behind Lovelady looking at? --Tommy

Paul B., I think it's been established that Marina Oswald wrote the "Hunter of Fascists -- Ha Ha" on the back of that photo. I'm too tired to look for my source on that right now. Maybe another forum member will chime in here... --Tommy [...] (1) Marina took one and only one photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald dressed in black and holding his guns and The Militant. That is what she remembers. [...] Paul, I seem to remember Marina's saying that she took two photos of Lee and that he had to advance the film for her between the two exposures. (I do realize that it's probably just my imagination....) --Tommy

Paul B., I think it's been established that Marina Oswald wrote the "Hunter of Fascists -- Ha Ha" on the back of that photo. I'm too tired to look for my source on that right now. Maybe another forum member will chime in here... --Tommy

Tommy, I'm very interested in your research here, and am eager to see your results. Yet I should also point out a fear voiced by Gary Schoener earlier this year, namely, that the FBI, if they chose, might pinpoint some information about one specific person and alter it so that researchers would fly off on wild goose chases. Gary did not say this happened in the case of Jack Martin -- but he did raise the notion. That said -- I am eager to see what your procedure reveals. Best regards, --Paul Trejo Paul, While looking at just the first 14 pages of the HSCA document, I realized that there some original entries on the Minuteman index cards that date from as recently as early and mid 1965. For example: "Smith, R.A. ... Fresno, CA ... 1-1965 received work phase 2 - sending 3." and: "Smith, Russell B. ... Fresno, CA ... July 1965 10.00 gift" http://www.maryferre...29&relPageId=12 and: "(continued) Smith, Russell Bernard ... Fresno, CA ... 2/23/65 - $3 for Jan & Feb dues ..." and: "Zytner, Mark ... Hacienda Heights, CA ... Feb 24, 1965 - Phase 1 $3.00 (dues & TP)" etc. Not to mention lots of dates in 1964, somewhat fewer in 1963, and even a few in 1962. FWIW, --Tommy P.S. Are you going to argue now that, although the info on the cards is as recent as (at least) July, 1965 (thereby making "17-year-old John T. Martin" only 15 years old in 1963), the FBI or somebody must have changed his age on his card? In other words, that his card should say that he was a twenty-five year-old high school student in 1965? I noticed that whoever wrote the cards made a distinction between a member who was a "student" and a member who was a "college student." John T. Martin's card says he was a "student." If John T. Martin was 15 in 1963, he would have been a 20-year old university student when Weisberg and Schoener met him at the University of Minnesota in 1968. As you know, twenty is a typical age for a university student, but not twenty-eight. Not trying to be sarcastic here, but I am sorry that this post raises more questions than answers...

Yes, Tommy, I did see that -- but it only raises more questions - it doesn't settle the question. The biggest problem that Weisberg and Schoener faced, IMHO, is that "John Martin" is an amazingly common name, both in Minnesota and in the USA generally. Whether a Junior or a Senior, there are simply thousands of them. The name is too common for one person to resolve this alone. It would take a committee. (If Weisberg and Schoener were puzzled in 1968...) Although some folks have argued for the possibility, my family's experience with the US military is that they might accept somebody 17 years old with a note from their parents lying about their birthday - but that's the extent of it. They don't accept 15 year old boys. If this boy was 17 in 1965 (we don't know how old those membership cards were) then he was fourteen or fifteen in August, 1963 and it was utterly impossible for him to serve in the Army in Germany in 1960-1961, as a boy of about eleven. Therefore, even with the exact same name, we must recognize that we have the wrong man. Here are our options: (1) The FBI made a mistake (as Gary Schoener thought); (2) The FBI deliberately lied about John Martin, because they knew he was more deeply involved and they protected him. (3) We made a mistaken assumption, i.e. that the cards found in MIssouri were current. Because, if those cards actually represented a Minutemen membership list that was, say, 5 years old, that would make Martin 22 in 1965, and thus 18 in 1961, and we might reasonably say that we have our man. But all this depends on the FBI making a mistake in their dates -- so we are back to (1). By the way, if this 17 year old John Martin was the son (Junior) of an older John Martin, the math suggests that his father would be too old to be the man we seek. Gary Schoener said that John Martin in 1968 was roughly his own age. He was not an older man, old enough to be his father. I think we have to recognize that Harold Weisberg and Gary Schoener missed an opportunity -- and they reflect their entire generation of JFK researchers -- they completely underestimated the importance of investigating ex-General Edwin Walker. Schoener himself said it -- they were so focussed on Lee Harvey Oswald in NOLA, and they scrutinized every face in that film for weeks, thinking that the clue they sought was there, and that Jack Martin wanted them to analyze that scene, that they didn't even make the connection with Walker. Why not just edit that out, they wondered. They could not see the forest for the trees. The key was, IMHO, the connection between Walker and Oswald, there, in a material artifact, this film. The connection was right in front of them. Gary Schoener sees that now - 45 years later. He told me that he would send me a copy of his Jack Martin Film if he ever finds it again within his piles of JFK artifacts. I still haven't seen the film after having contacted Martin Shackleford and broadcasting to this FORUM. Best regards, --Paul Trejo Paul, First of all I'd like to apologize for my post which "...only raises more questions - it doesn't settle the question." One way of determining how old those cards were when they were turned in to the FBI is to "research" some of the other people who were also listed, with their age, on those cards, and by reading their obituary (or whatever), find out when they were born and then do some reverse math to figure out when their card was written. Obviously finding the correct obituary, etc of a person with an-at-least somewhat unusual name is much easier that finding the correct obituary (or whatever) for a "John Smith," for example. I've only just started doing this but I've already found the obituary for someone who is also listed on page 60 of the HSCA report-- a William Henry Halgren who, according to his card, was 42 years old and living in St Paul, Minnesota when his card was written. According to his obituary, he was born on 9/25/21, meaning that he turned 42 on 9/25/63, meaning that William Henry Halgren's card was written between 9/25/63 and 9/25/64. (Scroll all the way down to the "death records" part to see that this William Henry Halgren died on 11/15/2005 at the age of 84 in St Paul, Minnesota.) http://www.locategra...am-H-Halgren-MN Time permitting, I'll "research" some of the other people on these cards who also have (at least somewhat) unusual names. Best regards, --Tommy