Thomas Graves

Dear Michael, Your grasp of the obvious is truly amazing. Question: Do you think the CIA somehow forced Duran and Azcue to collectively describe the Oswald or "Oswald," who may-or-may-not have visited the Cuban Consulate on 9/27/63, in such a way as to perfectly describe KGB officer Nikolai Leonov? -- Tommy

Correctomundo. Seein' as how Philby had been Angleton's mentor, confidant, and drinking partner, it's no wonder Jim was overly suspicious of everything and everybody, but that doesn't negate the high probability that Nosenko was a false defector sent here to contradict everything Golitsyn could be expected by the KGB and GRU to tell the CIA. -- Tommy

Dear Paul, You're right. So? In other words, what makes you think I'm not as perplexed as you are about the assassination? Regardless, I do have the right to follow certain pieces of evidence (the more mysterious the better) wherever it takes me research-wise, to point out things along the way (e.g. the fact that Stella Jacob, Gloria Jean Holt, and Sharon Simmons were mis-labled as "Gloria Calvery, Karan Hicks, and Carol Reed", the fact that drunk-on-11/22/63 Larry Florer really was who he said he was, and the fact that the retired ONI special agent I interviewed 1 ) said, in so many words, that JFK had been killed from the Terminal Annex Building, 2 ) admitted that he had "very probably" investigated LHO at El Toro in 1959, and 3 ) most interestingly, couldn't "for the life of him" remember, when I asked him, where he was when he heard that Kennedy had been shot... .... and I do have the right to speculate about these things, and others, on this Forum, and even to do so, if I so chose, in the general context that, imho, one of mobbed-up KGB boy Vladimir Putin's "useful idiots," Donald Trump, was elected President of the United States of America with the help of ... The KGB Boy Himself, Vladimir Putin. I mean I mean I mean ... What's up with that? Or do you prefer to think that the miraculous ascension of Trump to the presidency is just another "Global Corporate Fascism Plot" by, you know, The Rothchilds, The Illuminati, and ...... George Soros? LOL -- Tommy PS et cetera, et cetera

Dear Paul, A classic case of misinterpretation and / or misrepresentation on your part. It's not your (nearly continually) asking me what my grand "CT" is that makes me think you might be a bit intellectually lazy research-wise, but your occasionally asking me to fully explain research items to you. Just to jog your memory on this ongoing "laziness" issue I have with you (and occasionally with other members, as well), I remember asking you a year or so ago whether or not you ever used google "search" to look things up for yourself, and you said you couldn't because you didn't have a computer, and that you were using a smart phone or some-such-thing, instead. Remember? -- Tommy PS. As regards my Grand Theory, if I have one it's probably a work-in-.progress, subject to revision or compete abandonment at any time, and therefore unworthy, at this point, of being "shared" with anyone, you know, out of concern that it would confuse them unnecessarily, and regardless, possibly cause even more unnecessary cognitive dissonance-based angst and acrimony on this here anti-"National Security State", anti- "Evil, Evil CIA," "Vladimir Putin is a very nice man" etc, etc - oriented Forum. IMHO. Rozumis? (Czech, but ya gotta add a couple of "diacritical marks" to make it right - I'm just too darn lazy to do it.)

Dear Paul, By admitting that Azcue meant "light brown hair" when he said the "dark blond" part of the three words "BLOND, DARK BLOND," you're saying that Azcue's not talking about the guy's overall "complexion," but is describing the guy's hair color as being somewhere between "blond" and "light brown," whether you realize it or not. The fact that even though Azcue, after 15 years, couldn't remember the guy's hair color exactly but *did* still manage to get the word "blond" in there while describing it is telling, IMHO. -- Tommy

It must be a conspiracy. -- Tommy

Dear Paul, OK. Feel better now, Komarad? -- Tommy PS Regarding JJA's "obsessiveness," what year did his mentor, that nice Kim Philby guy, run away (from Lebanon, fwiw) to the USSR? 1963?

Dear Paul, Here's some of Azcue's HSCA testimony: AZCUE. [ ... ] The man who went to the consulate was a man over 30 years of age and very thin, very thin faced. And the individual I saw in the movie [footage of Ruby shooting Oswald] was a young man, considerably younger, and a fuller face. CORNWELL. What color hair did the individual have to the best of your memory who visited the consulate? AZCUE. He was blond, dark blond. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/Hscaascu.htm Question: Do you believe that Duran and Azcue dealt with the same person in the Cuban Consulate? If so, isn't it logical to assume, given Azcue's testimony, above, that when Duran said the person she'd dealt with was "blond," that she meant he had blond hair? Also, Duran is on record as saying the the guy she'd dealt with in the Consulate was "short, about the same height as her." We know that Duran was only 5 ' 3.5" and that Oswald was 5' 9.5", a full six inches taller than Duran. If Duran had met with Oswald in the Cuban Consulate, do you really think she would have said 5' 9.5" Oswald was "about the same height as her"? How about if she'd dealt with someone who was only 2.5 inches taller than her; someone like 5' 6" Nikolai Leonov? -- Tommy

I hope it does't become a meme. I meme. I meme. I meme.

Paul Trejo wrote: "Your question was posed like a "Harvey and Lee" CTer ... " Dear Paul, I'm not a "Harvey and Lee"-er and I know you aren't either, so who's playing word games, now? But it really doesn't matter. You've already admitted that to your knowledge, Sylvia Duran never said that the American guy she'd dealt with in the Cuban Consulate in late 1963 was Lee Harvey Oswald (i.e., the guy Jack Ruby killed on 11/24/63). Thanks. -- Tommy

Necessarily mean, you mean.

The question is: Did he intentionally mislead the CIA? Concomitantly, how could a KGB officer have such a bad memory as he "appeared" to have? -- Tommy

Just checked. Mary Ferrell says he was "born in Latvia in 1939 or 1940. Lived in Germany 1940 - 1945. Came to the U.S. in 1948 or 1949. Spoke four languages." Latvia was invaded and forcefully occupied by Russia in 1940. Vaganov seems to be a Russian name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaganov -- Tommy

Igor Vaganov? -- Tommy

The pot calling the kettle "black".

Dear Paul, All I read was your first sentence and part of your second one. Thanks for admitting that, as far as you know, Sylvia Duran never said the guy at the Cuban Consulate was Lee Harvey Oswald. -- Tommy

What makes you think Golitsyn was a false defector? His conspiracy theories regarding Harold Wilson, the Sino-Soviet split, etc? Even one of Golitsyn's biggest detractors, official MI5 historian Christopher Andrews, says that the intelligence data provided by Golitsyn were reliable. Do you think the KGB (through Department 13) interviewed all American military defectors as a matter of course, as Golitsyn claimed, or do you prefer to believe that they didn't, as Nosenko said? Who, in your opinion, gave the CIA more important, verifiable KGB / GRU secrets, Golitsyn or Nosenko? Which of those two demonstrably lied more to the CIA / FBI? Did Golitsyn's info help the FBI / CIA determine that the high-level KGB officer in charge of penetrating the American Embassy in Moscow, Kovshuk, was secretly on a 10-month mission to Washington, D.C., in 1957 [described by Nosenko as a just a "short, two-week trip in order to re-establish contact with a (relatively unimportant) code machine technician with the code name 'Audrey'"] in order re-establish contact with and get more secrets from Edward Ellis Smith, the former CIA agent whose job (which started right after Popov contacted the CIA in 1953) at the American Embassy in Moscow was to provide and service "dead drops" for Popov, but who had been caught-up in a 1956 KGB "honey trap" operation, "turned" by the KGB, recalled to CIA headquarters, and fired from his CIA position (but not arrested)? As well to "service" a still-unknown and more important KGB agent in the U.S. code named "Jack"? Etc, etc? In short, have you read Tennent H. Bagley's 2007 book, Spy Wars? Here, this is a 2014 summary of sorts. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362 -- Tommy : Or are you into "into" The Evil, Evil Ruskies Theory even more than I am (I rather doubt it), and you believe that Golitsyn and Nosenko were both sent to us by the KGB to us, kinda like a Pro Wrestling Tag Team?

I decided to edit this old post a bit and bump it. -- Tommy

Current poll results: Nosenko was a false defector -- 2 Nosenko was kinda almost a false defector -- 1 Anyone else care to vote?

None of the above if I understand you correctly.

Chris Newton: Are you pulling a "Clark / Trejo" on me (What's your CT, Tommy?), or a "Brancato," (I don't want to research it myself, so tell me everything you know, Tommy, and tell me your CT while you're at it), or is this a test to see how much I know about Nosenko / Golitsyn, ....... .... or ......... do you actually want to learn? The last one is hard for me to believe because I thought you told me in a post on another thread that you've already looked into Nosenko vs Golitsyn quite a bit? -- Tommy

Why?

And per of favorite CIA Agent: Excerpt From: Robert Baer. “See No Evil: The True Story of a Ground Soldier in the CIA's War on Terrorism.” "KGB defector Yuri Nosenko should have served as an example .... " etc etc etc. That would have been Helm's fault, imho. And a jerk by the name of Leonard McCoy.

Chris, Thanks for the input. -- Tommy

Chris, So, how do you vote in my widdle poll? "IDK" ? -- Tommy