Thomas Graves

Sandy, Have you seen this? http://www.jfk-online.com/billings1.html You might want to press "ctrl" & "F" on each page and then typing the word "spanish" or "mexican" or "hispanic" (lol) or something like that in the little drop-down "search box" in the upper right-hand corner. -- Tommy

"Dear James" Oh, I see. Ok, well, as regards your professor, it looks to as though he was paid to say what he did. Or had a pistol pressed against his brainy little skull, or maybe was taking a little LSD with Wavy Gravy at the time. Question: What about "Harvey's" recorded voice in the "debate" he had with Bringuier at the radio station? Here's the verbatim transcript. http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0329b.htm And that recording Ernst Titovets made of him, fooling around, laughing, and talking with a phony British accent? In those two recordings, Oswald speaks better English, grammatically-speaking, syntactically-speaking, and vocabulary-wise, than most Americans! Not bad for a boy whose "mother tongue" was Hungarian, who then learned Russian, and who then learned English, huh? -- Tommy

"Dear James" Do you think Hungarian-speaking "Harvey" was old enough to have already mastered Russian when he and his parents moved to the U.S.? At what age do you think he mastered Russian, a language very different from Hungarian? -- Tommy

"Dear James," Here's the full text of the partially-obscured letter you posted, with the spelling mistakes corrected by me. "Dear Senator Tower; My name is Lee Harvey Oswald, 22, of Fort Worth up till October 1959, when I came to the Soviet Union for a residential stay. I too(k) a residential document for a non-Soviet person for a time in the USSR. The American Embassy in Moscow is familiar with my case. Since July 20(,)1960 I have unsuccessfully applied for a Soviet exit visa to leave this country. [T]he Soviets refuse to permit me and my Soviet wife (who applied to the U.S. Embassy Moscow, July 8, 1960(,) for immigration status to the U.S.A.) to leave the Soviet Union. I am a citizen of the United States of America (passport No. 1733242, 1959) and I beseech you, Senator Tower, to rise (sic; should be "raise") the question of holding by the Soviet Union of a citizen of the US, against his will and expressed desires." And here's another one that had immediately preceded it: "Dear Sirs: I am writing in regard to a letter which I sent to the Embassy on November 1, in which I asked: 'Does the American Embassy feel that(,) in light of the fact that my temporary Soviet document for residence in the Soviet Union expires on January 5, 1962, that the deprivation of an exit visa after this date and therefore the foreseeable holding of me against my expressed desires is unlawful?' I would like a written reply to this question before the expiration date of January 4, 1962(,) in order to have a basis for my refusal to give my permission for the legal extension on (British English(?), or an attempt at such(?) this document." My Analysis: Other than Oswald's obvious typo ("took" ; a "highly-cultured-sounding" British expression, here) and his questionable use of the definite article - noun "the - deprivation" (the gerund form "their depriving me" would have been better - but, hey!, very few Americans know how to use a gerund phrase) and his obvious mistake in using the past-tense "rise" instead of present-tense "raise"), I would have to say that his syntax, grammar, and vocabulary are excellent, especially for someone who dropped out of school in (or was it after?) the 10th grade, and that your Yale Professor is, therefore, blowing smoke out of his Ivy League you-know-what. Note: Among other things, "A Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English" wouldn't have used the indefinite articles "a" and "an", nor the definite article "the", as perfectly as Oswald did in these two letters. -- Tommy PS But why take it from me? Heck, I only scored in the top 98- percentile in "verbal intelligence" on the SAT, and taught English in a Slavic-language country (the Czech Republic) for seven years.

Sandy, So I guess MY experience (teaching English in the Czech Republic for seven years; interacting with the Hungarian Toth brothers in high school - after they'd been in the U.S. for nine years or so, having moved to the U.S. when they were six and eight years of age) counts for nothing, huh? -- Tommy How old do you figure "Harvey" was when his parents brought him to the U.S.? Old enough to have already mastered Russian?

[...] Bumped

"Dear James' For me, it's a lot easier to accept the possibility that some Intelligence agency created "Harvey's" and "Lee's" retroactive childhood cover stories after "Harvey" had joined the Marines, than the idea that the CIA (or whomever) chose two boys (when they were about eight years old) to participate in a long-term "doppelganger project," somehow knowing beforehand that they would grow up looking sufficiently-alike so as to be able to fool people who had dealt with "Lee" before the assassination (or whatever black op was going to be used for) into believing they'd dealt with "Harvey -- the Commie killer of JFK", instead. -- Tommy

GEM # 1 (Let's take them one at a time, shall we?) "The Russian speaking youth, possibly of Hungarian parents, was brought to the U.S. following World War II and given the name HARVEY Oswald." Question: If the mother tongue of "Harvey" (the young boy who eventually joined the Marines, "defected" to the USSR, married Marina, and was killed by Jack Ruby on 11/24/63) was Hungarian (a Turkic language from Central Asia), and he was already speaking Russian (a highly-inflected, Indo-European language) when he came to the U.S., how are we to explain, then, the fact that "Harvey" spoke such grammatically-correct, Hungarian and Russian accent-free English later in life? -- Tommy PS I think I can speak with some authority on this, having taught English for seven years in a country that speaks a Slavic, i.e. Russian-like language, the Czech Republic. And I remember the Hungarian Toth brothers at La Jolla High School back around 1964, who probably came to the U.S. around the time of the 1956 Hungarian Revolt against the U.S.S.R.

I'm bumping Jon Tidd's whole paragraph, again. Hopefully Hargrove won't edit it again to suit his own purposes. -- Tommy

Jon G. Tidd is an inactive forum member and a former Army counter-intelligence officer. His long-term (four year) double-Oswald theory is one that I can almost live with. (lol) -- Tommy

Dear Mike, It would appear that you are in full-on snidely "retaliation mode" for having been shown, by Sandy and I, that you were totally and arrogantly wrong about "Neck Scratcher" being the same person as "Gangly Man" in that Black Ops Radio video on the "David Morales" thread. -- Tommy Suggestion: If my posts really do bother you so much, why don't you simply refuse to read them?

Michael, I thought I told you to not tell anyone. -- Tommy

Bumped again, this time for Michael "Knee Jerk" Walton in the hope he will now understand why I bumped the ancient "Ruby" thread. The first time I bumped it, a couple of hours ago, was for my favorite researcher (who was reading this thread, which was on page 4, at the time), Bill Simpich, in the hope that he might be able to "connect some dots" between the "Hungarian-owned Gold Rail (sic)" bar which Ruby might have visited in San Diego, and the possibility that Oswald's fake name "Hidell" was from the Hungarian words "hidd el". -- Tommy

edited: Robert, Whoever wrote this letter confused (perhaps intentionally) the gay Brass Rail bar (in Hillcrest, a couple of miles north of downtown San Diego) for the straight, no-longer-existing, downtown San Diego Gold Rail Steak House, which was owned by the most feared Mafia hitman on the West Coast, Frank Bompensiero, and "One Eye" Frank Paul Dragna, son of Los Angles mob boss Jack Dragna (an associate of Johnny Roselli). "Syndicate" members wouldn't have met at the gay Brass Rail up in Hillcrest, they would have met at the mafia-owned Gold Rail, which was situated near the luxurious U.S. Grant Hotel in downtown San Diego. Speaking of Bompensiero, the "Gold Rail," the U.S. Grant Hotel, the guy who was trying to muscle in on Bompeniero's jukebox monopoly, and a little story about what was done with a big cucumber in one of the rooms at the U.S. Grant Hotel, there's an interesting FBI document from the late 1950's, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. I guess you'll just have to use your imagination. FWIW, a couple of years ago I knocked on the door of the Brass Rail before it opened one morning (I'm not a patron -- LOL) and asked the manager if it had ever been owned by a couple of Hungarians. The answer was "No." "Bompensiero was proud of the Gold Rail. Actually, if you are to believe the license and the Yellow Pages listing, the “Gold Rail Steak House.” No steak was served. Law said you had to serve food. Bompensiero didn’t serve food." http://www.sandiegor...check-us-grant/ http://en.wikipedia....ank_Bompensiero https://en.wikipedia...iki/Jack_Dragna --Tommy ----------------------------------------------------------------- Robert, San Francisco mafioso Nick de John was murdered in 1947. http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1947/05/10/page/3/article/former-chicago-hoodlum-slain-on-west-coast Regarding your other question, Since RFK was Attorney General and therefore J. Edgar Hoover's boss, I would think that he could have told Hoover to be hard on certain people. PS The coy, story-telling style, the liberal use of quotation marks and hyphens, the exclamation mark, the good vocabulary, the near perfect spelling, the excellent grammar, the proper use of commas, and the generally good punctuation reminds me very much of Gerry Patrick Hemming. I think the letter was an elaborate joke by Hemming (e.g., the Shaw Hotel was a "Negro" hotel in Harlem -- why even mention that he and his "friend" were staying at the "Shaw Hotel" when he recognized Ruby on television ??? ; Hemming has the "writer" come across as being possibly gay himself -- and how else could the "writer" have known about the gay Brass Rail (est. 1960) if he hadn't been there himself "when he was in San Diego in 1961" ???, etc.). I think Hemming wrote this letter not only as a joke, but to also to direct RFK's attention away from the CIA and towards the Mafia, and to send RFK on a couple of "wild goose chases" as well, trying to figure out what the writer meant when he said that RFK and / or Dulles had messed with his mail in San Diego in 1961, talking about threats to the welfare of our people emanating "from near the border," etc. BTW, it's interesting that the "originator" of the document ("CIA") doesn't say where the letter was mailed from. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=73129#relPageId=1&tab=page --Tommy More on Frank Bompensiero: http://www.allanrmay.com/Frank_Bompensiero.html bumped HUNGARIANS?

And let's not forget the allegedly Hungarian-owned "Gold Rail" gay bar in San Diego where Jack Ruby was allegedly seen. -- Tommy

Sandy, Now THAT's interesting. Thanks. I think this 11/22/63 FBI report is probably the most accurate description of what Lovelady and Shelley really did. In my words: "Upon hearing people screaming after the last shot, Shelley and Lovelady ran across Elm Street Extension as far as the concrete 'Island' to get a better view of the limo as it continued down Elm Street and disappeared through the Triple Underpass. On the said 'Island' they encountered a running, crying, Gloria Calvery, who told them what she'd seen about 45 yards down Elm Street. Shelley immediately left them and ran back across Elm Street Extension and inside the TSBD to call his wife, while Calvery and a dressed-in-white colleague accompanied Lovelady back to the TSBD steps where his partially-eaten lunch and soda pop were still waiting for him, and in the Couch-Darnell clip Calvery was "caught" talking to him there as she continued describing to him what she and her dressed-in-white colleague had seen." -- Tommy

If former Army Counter-Intelligence officer Jon G. Tidd is correct, I wonder when the manipulation of Oswald began? October, 1956? September, 1959? August, 1963? And by whom, of course. -- Tommy bumped

Sandy, Regarding the use of the word "Spanish man" to describe the way someone, who happens to speak that language, looks -- since most of the people who live in Spain are "White" like you and me, and are, therefore, difficult to distinguish from most other people living in European countries or North America, Australia, New Zealand, European Russia, etc, it's obvious to me that the person who said or wrote "Spanish man" should have said "Mexican-looking" or "South American-looking" or "Hispanic-looking," or something like that, instead. Living next to Mexico as I do, I hear people make the same mistake in describing someone from time to time. As regards Morales' height, I believe he was an athletic 5'10" (he had run track and, according to his friend Ruben Carbajal, been a football star in high school). I'll try to look up his documented height and post it here. When I do, please bear in mind that the photographer, Jim Doyle, was only 14 years old at the time, so all of the adults around him were taller than he was, I would imagine. -- Tommy

Chris, Possible teenager John T. "Jack" Martin from Minnesota filmed Oswald while visiting New Orleans on August 9, 1963, the same day that sixteen-year-old Jim Doyle and his eleven-year-old sister shot the very same Oswald leafletting incident at which Oswald, Bringuier, Cruz. and one other anti-Castro Cuban were arrested for disturbing the peace. This August 9 incident is not to be confused with Oswald's leafletting activity in front of the New Orleans Trade Mart on August 16, during which Oswald was assisted by paid worker Charles Steele and an unknown Hispanic-looking guy, and nobody was arrested. Thanks for asking! --Tommy I believe that the scar I've been talking about (which is barely visible on and over Morales' left eye in the upper right photo) is much more visible in the lower left photo. If you look very closely, you can even see it in his high school photo, which leads me to believe it was from an old high school football injury, which sport Morales played, according to his old high school buddy, Ruben Carbajal. --Tommy The reason I think Morales' scar is important is because a Garrison researcher, Life Magazine's Richard Billings, wrote in his notes in 1967: "More on Spanish trace... Giant [Jim Garrison] says the shepherd has a one-inch scar on his left eyebrow. He was also seen by Bringuier and Miguel Cruz at Maison Blanche when Oswald passing out leaflets." Note: The "Maison Blanche" was a large old building where Dean Andrews had his law office on the sixth floor, only two blocks from where Oswald, Bringuier, and Cruz were arrested on August 9 in the 700 block of Canal Street. After the assassination, Andrews said he had seen Oswald passing out leaflets in front of this building, and that Oswald told him it was just a $25 "job" ... "He [the "shepherd"] was wearing a coat and tie and sunglasses... He was taking pictures of Oswald." [emphasis added] http://www.jfk-online.com/billings4.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Billings' notes, he wonders if "Spanish Trace" might have been the dark-complected driver of the "getaway" Rambler station wagon in Dallas. rhereby suggesting that "Spanish Trace / Shepherd" was both dark-complected and Mexican-looking. David Sanchez Morales was half Spanish and half Yaqui Indian, and was so dark-complected that his nickname was "El Indio". The photo below is of Morales and is cropped from a larger photograph taken of him in Chile or Peru in 1966. I have seen the larger photo on the Internet. It shows a 35mm camera hanging in front of Morales' chest. I can't find that larger photo right now, but a least we can see the camera's strap in this one. FWIW, 16-year-old amateur photographer Jim Doyle, who filmed Oswald's arguing with Bringuier on August 9 and being arrested, said that the guy watching Oswald so intently was wearing a grey suit and taking pictures of him with an expensive-looking camera. Here it is. BUMPED It's interesting that 14-year old Jim Doyle's parents, and a married couple who were friends of the family, all said that there were two pro-Castro demonstrators there that day -- Oswald with a yellow or orange "Viva La (sic) Fidel!" sign around his neck, and another guy, who had no sign but did have a pro-Castro placard on a wooden stake, and who was also handing out flyers. If so, why wasn't this second demonstrator arrested along with Oswald, Bringuier, Martinez, and Cruz? Scroll down to page 2. http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Civil Actions/JFK-MLK Appeals Subjects/Pix/Pix 05-09.pdf Scroll down to page 5 for more detail. http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI Records Files/105-82555/105-82555 Section 015/105-15c.pdf

Oh. You're right. But it's all your fault. Because you enlarged it too much. And you made it too dark or something. (And it has been over a year since I last looked at it.) My bad but it's all your fault, Larsen. (lol) -- Tommy

Sandy, Just like the NSA wouldn't let anyone steal bundles of secrets from their job at a NSA sub-contractor, and then move to Russia? Do-Do Does Happen, you know. -- Tommy

Chris, Possible teenager John T. "Jack" Martin from Minnesota filmed Oswald while visiting New Orleans on August 9, 1963, the same day that sixteen-year-old Jim Doyle and his eleven-year-old sister shot the very same Oswald leafletting incident at which Oswald, Bringuier, Cruz. and one other anti-Castro Cuban were arrested for disturbing the peace. This August 9 incident is not to be confused with Oswald's leafletting activity in front of the New Orleans Trade Mart on August 16, during which Oswald was assisted by paid worker Charles Steele and an unknown Hispanic-looking guy, and nobody was arrested. Thanks for asking! --Tommy I believe that the scar I've been talking about (which is barely visible on and over Morales' left eye in the upper right photo) is much more visible in the lower left photo. If you look very closely, you can even see it in his high school photo, which leads me to believe it was from an old high school football injury, which sport Morales played, according to his old high school buddy, Ruben Carbajal. --Tommy The reason I think Morales' scar is important is because a Garrison researcher, Life Magazine's Richard Billings, wrote in his notes in 1967: "More on Spanish trace... Giant [Jim Garrison] says the shepherd has a one-inch scar on his left eyebrow. He was also seen by Bringuier and Miguel Cruz at Maison Blanche when Oswald passing out leaflets." Note: The "Maison Blanche" was a large old building where Dean Andrews had his law office on the sixth floor, only two blocks from where Oswald, Bringuier, and Cruz were arrested on August 9 in the 700 block of Canal Street. After the assassination, Andrews said he had seen Oswald passing out leaflets in front of this building, and that Oswald told him it was just a $25 "job" ... "He [the "shepherd"] was wearing a coat and tie and sunglasses... He was taking pictures of Oswald." [emphasis added] http://www.jfk-online.com/billings4.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Billings' notes, he wonders if "Spanish Trace" might have been the dark-complected driver of the "getaway" Rambler station wagon in Dallas. rhereby suggesting that "Spanish Trace / Shepherd" was both dark-complected and Mexican-looking. David Sanchez Morales was half Spanish and half Yaqui Indian, and was so dark-complected that his nickname was "El Indio". The photo below is of Morales and is cropped from a larger photograph taken of him in Chile or Peru in 1966. I have seen the larger photo on the Internet. It shows a 35mm camera hanging in front of Morales' chest. I can't find that larger photo right now, but a least we can see the camera's strap in this one. FWIW, 16-year-old amateur photographer Jim Doyle, who filmed Oswald's arguing with Bringuier on August 9 and being arrested, said that the guy watching Oswald so intently was wearing a grey suit and taking pictures of him with an expensive-looking camera. Here it is.

Bumped. Because it's been about a year and a half, now. Awwwwwwwughhffuhyvjuyfjvyfjc! I preferred the old forum as far as "quoting" was concerned.

Dude! I'm the guy who discovered the strap about a year ago, mostly by noticing the spectral highlights (even noticeable in your enlargement) on the left couple of inches, and it's slight crunching of his collar / jacket on the right. I know exactly where to look for the strap. LOL -- Tommy

Sandy, Great work. Thanks for enlarging this detail. Just wondering -- Is there any way to adjust the contrast or the hues, or something, so as to make the strap "stand out" from his skin more? Thanks, -- Tommy