Cliff Varnell

2 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

And that batch of pure silliness,

The doctors at the autopsy didn't think the idea was silly; the FBI men at the autopsy didn't think it was silly; the US Army Special Operations Division -- which developed blood soluble paralytics and toxins for the CIA project MKNAOMI -- didn't think it was silly. 

You say discrete objects can occupy the same space at the same time.

You're being the silly one, David.

8 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

I guess this means you're not going to answer my "What do you think happened?" question, huh?

(To be expected, of course.)

 

I don't know what happened.

All I know for a fact is that JFK was shot in the back at T3, the round didn't exit, and no round was found at the autopsy;JFK was hit in the throat from the front, the round didn't exit, and no round was found during the autopsy.

The autopsists speculated JFK was hit with a high tech round that wouldn't show up anywhere during the autopsy.

Maybe that's what happened.

Show us how a big shirt fold wrapped in a big jacket fold occupied the same physical space as the jacket collar.

All you can do is repeat the Big Lies over and over,

Show us or STFU.

Cut to the chase, David. 

Show us how those big honkin' shirt and jacket folds occupied the same physical space as the jacket collar.

Show us how discrete physical objects occupy the same space at the same time.

Show us or STF'nFU.

18 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

When do you plan on defending this bold and incorrect statement of yours?....

"Those measurements were not taken at the time of the autopsy."

Not a single thing you said above about "protocol" proves that the "14cm. from mastoid" measurement wasn't taken at the time of the autopsy.

Try again, Mr. Fantasist. Because your last effort was quite lame.

 

Because at the time of the autopsy there was a pencil chained to the clip board upon which the autopsy face sheet was filled out by James C. Jenkins, under the direction of Thornton Boswell.

Pencil is proper autopsy protocol.

The notations in pen were added later. 

When are you going to show us how you wad multiple inches of shirt and jacket entirely above the base of the neck without pushing up on the jacket collar?

Did JFK's jacket collar and this big lump of clothing occupy the same physical space at the same time?

Show us Von Pein or at long last STFU.

3 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

I haven't the slightest idea why the conspiracy fantasist named Varnell uttered the above crap. Dr. Humes testified as follows to the Warren Commission (emphasis is my own) [at 2 H 361]....

"We ascertained physical measurement at the time of autopsy that this wound was 14 cm. from the tip of the mastoid process and 14 cm. from the acromion."

But I guess Cliff must think the above statement made by Humes was nothing but a lie.

The notations were written on the autopsy face sheet in pen -- a violation of autopsy protocol.

Humes used a cranial landmark for a thoracic wound -- a violation of autopsy protocol.

Humes used 2 moveable landmarks -- a double violation of autopsy protocol.

The more protocol violations the better in Nutter Land.

4 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

ONE hole in the shirt.

ONE hole in the jacket.

ONE hole in JFK's upper back (which we know was 14cm. below the tip of JFK's right mastoid process).

False.  Those measurements were not taken at the time of the autopsy.

Why do you continue to push this fraud?

2 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Once again, we're treated to Cliff's extraordinary X-ray vision. He can SEE that JFK's shirt is not bunched-up at all. Not even a fraction of an inch.

The level of Varnell's arrogance is close to becoming legendary.

 

You claim to "see" the shirt is wadded up multiple inches entirely above the base of the neck even though the jacket collar wasn't elevated at all.

Your hypocrisy is well-established, tho I'd stop short of calling it legendary.

Just now, David Von Pein said:

Don't ya love it when a JFK conspiracy fantasist just makes up things that he cannot possibly know with such "one-eighth of an inch" precision?

 

Don't ya love it when a nutter can't do the math -- 4 and 1/8 minus 4 equals 1/8.

Surely there must be some small children in your neighborhood who can explain this to you, David.

1 minute ago, David Von Pein said:

A JFK conspiracy theorist.

And out with a whimper he goes...

5 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Who cares?

Only people interested in the truth.  Which lets you and Payette off the hook.

Quote

 

We know (and can easily see) that another part of that same jacket WAS definitely "bunched up" on JFK's back.

Of course it was.  The bullet hole in the shirt is 4" below the bottom of the collar.  The hole in the jacket is 4.125" below the bottom of the collar.

The jacket was bunched up 1/8".

Quote

 

What do we call it when someone denies an obvious fact that they can see with their own two eyeballs?

 

A T3 denier.

23 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Don't ya love Cliff Varnell's amazing supernatural ability to be able to see right through JFK's jacket in the Croft picture?

Von Pein has a supernatural inability to see that JFK's jacket collar was in it's normal position in the Croft photo, the lower margin of the jacket collar was just above the base of the neck where Von Pein claims multiple inches of shirt and jacket were all wadded up.

What do we call someone actively promoting an obvious fraud?

Starts with an 'L' and rhymes with 'friar.'

26 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Indeed. Such as this photo below (which is the photo that Cliff loves to hate)....

 

David Von Pein is so cognitively impaired by a severe case of confirmation bias he can't see the shirt fold was elevated above the top of the shirt collar.

Confirmation bias prevents Von Pein from seeing the normal amount of shirt collar above the top of the jacket collar in the Elm St. photos, which means the jacket collar wasn't elevated at all.

David, do you know any small children who could show you how clothing moves?

If so, they can stop you from promoting a fraud.

1 hour ago, Lance Payette said:

And this from someone who prefers to believe in two closely aligned entrance wounds with no exit wounds caused by dissolving bullets fired by shooters at the rear and front.  OK.

No, such was the speculation of the autopsists the night of the autopsy with the body in front of them

The autopsists speculated JFK was struck with a high tech round that wouldn't show up in the autopsy.

Quote

The marker on the shirt moves in Zimmerman’s demonstration.

No, they edited it.  They show Stan sitting down and raising his arm but they don't take the x-ray in the same shot.  They required hundreds of takes, the shirt and jacket kept falling after they pulled them up.

Quote

 

  But in Conspiracy World, of course, the entire demonstration and documentary were – uh-huh – a conspiracy.

It's a fraud.

The same fraud you're pushing.

Maybe you could round up a 5 year old of average intelligence who can explain to you it's not possible to elevate multiple inches of shirt and jacket above the base of the neck without pushing up on the jacket collar.

Quote

There are dozens of photos of JFK’s jacket bunched up around his neck, sometimes to a grotesque degree.

Not on Elm St.  The shirt collar is visible above the top of the jacket collar in all those photos.

Lance Payette can't see this due to cognitive impairment brought on by severe confirmation bias.

At 41:10 the rigged movement of clothing placed the top of the jacket collar above the top of the shirt collar.

Payette is pushing a fraud.

Just now, Lance Payette said:

Here is the video, beginning at about the 39-minute mark of "Beyond the Magic Bullet," that Cliff claimed "did not exist."  Apparently if Cliff disagrees with something, it ceases to exist.

The video does not show any movement of clothing.  There is no video in existence which shows multiple inches of shirt and multiple inches of jacket elevating above the top of the back without pushing up on the jacket collar.

Payette is trying to gaslight us by claiming the video shows things it clearly doesn't show.

Payette remains cognitively impaired, unable to see the visible shirt collar in the Elm St. photos.

So he just makes things up, like Von Pein et al.

Pathetic...

6 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I will now swear off the Emmett Kelly of the JFK case again.

 

Please, no more going around and around with Von Pein.

You don't see me fake-debating these guys.

Pure ridicule is all they deserve.

55 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

You "busted" Chad Zimmerman, did you?  Was he arrested?  And he offered to pay you $10K if you could prove he wasn't full of doo-doo, did he?  (Does that even make sense?  "You're such a genius, Cliff, you've caused me to doubt myself.  I beg you, sir - prove I'm not full of steaming bat guano and I'll pay you $10,000."  Yeah, I guess I could see that happening.)

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.assassination.jfk/latest$20cliff$20challenge|sort:date/alt.assassination.jfk/KMqn57EVz80/y7QNUN3W3pkJ

After claiming on the Beyond the Magic Bullet Show that "Stan" was an exact stand-in for JFK, Chad realized his experiment destroyed the SBT.  He needed to cast doubt on the validity of Stan as a proper stand-in.

Chad Zimmerman, emphasis added:

If Varnell were to go and meet Stan, the JFK stand-in from The Discovery
Channel's 'Beyond the Magic Bullet' episode and returns with the belief that
Stan has the same build as JFK, then I will give Varnell a check for
$10,000.

Tactless? Perhaps. Does it prove my point? Perhaps. Stan was a less than
perfect stand-in for JFK.

But don't take it from me, go ahead and find Stan, Cliff. I look forward to
the public apology for repeatedly claiming otherwise.

34 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

Such a YouTube video certainly did exist.  I watched it myself and posted a link last year. 

That was Chad Zimmerman's fake experiment which did not show any movement of clothing.  

The Big Lie being promoted here is that multiple inches of JFK's tucked in custom-made dress shirt and multiple inches of his suit jacket were elevated entirely above the base of his neck without pushing up on the jacket collar -- which rested in a normal position just above the base of his neck.

Because Lance is cognitively impaired by confirmation bias he can't process the fact that all the Elm St. photos show a normal amount of shirt collar above the top of the jacket collar.

1 hour ago, Lance Payette said:

1.  At least one effort to duplicate what happened is available in a documentary on YouTube, and it did indeed show the shirt and jacket bunching together. 

Pure fiction.  No such YouTube exists. 

I busted Chad Zimmerman faking such a demonstration -- he offered to pay me ten grand if I could prove he wasn't full of sh-t.

17 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

I'm a betting man and I'd fade a bill on "narcissistic personality disorder" to describe both Lance Payette and Donald Trump should they get quality psychiatric examination.

I'd have to lay odds, no doubt.

Looks like Lance Payette and David Von Pein both wear JFK's shirt under their skins.

Fits like a good tailor-made!

Llewelyn Thompson WC testimony:

<quote on>

Mr. SLAWSON: …Ambassador Thompson has been asked to testify today on any contacts he may have had with Lee Harvey Oswald while the Ambassador was in his post with the American Embassy in Moscow and on any knowledge he may have on pertinent Soviet practices or American practices at that time which might relate to the treatment of 1Mr. Oswald. Ambassador Thompson, could you state all of the times and describe them when you heard about Lee Harvey Oswald’s dealings with your Embassy at Moscow while he was in Russia, either in late 1959 or thereafter?

Ambassador THOMPSON Yes; the only recollection I have is that when I returned from a trip to the United States in November 1959, or some time after that, the consul informed me about the case, and said this man had asked to renounce his citizenship. I recall asking him.

Mr. DULLES:  Was that Consul Richard E. Snyder?

Ambassador THOMPSON. Yes; I am almost certain of that. I recall asking him why he didn’t accept the renunciation, and he explained that in cases of this kind he normally waited to make sure the man was serious, and also in order to normally consult the State Department. I believe he told me at that time that the man had not come back again. And I believe that is the only recollection I have of the case at all at the time I was in Moscow.

Mr. SLAWSON: And that includes any other time thereafter, including through 1962?

Ambassador THOMPSON: Yes: of course I read the press and was aware of the case when it came up in the Department. There was some discussion of it. But no knowledge that I think would bear on the case. </q>

Ambassador Thompson could have heard the name Oswald around 3:00pm EST if he’d received a call from the Dallas PD.

That gave US Kremlinologists about two hours to answer the question of Soviet complicity.

And we’re to believe they never called Soviet officials about the matter, or discussed it with each other?

Please…

There is no extant physical evidence found with the body proving conspiracy in the Lincoln assassination.

This is extant physical evidence found with the body proving conspiracy in the JFK assassination.

I'm a betting man and I'd fade a bill on "narcissistic personality disorder" to describe both Lance Payette and Donald Trump should they get quality psychiatric examination.

Lance just has a bigger vocabulary.