Chris Davidson

Bernice....this is the thread to post the image to...it got moved to page two

in a big hurry since this morning.

Jack

***************

It certainly did...

......Thanks Jack,

Your photo.....

B..

Nice catch Jack,

They're coming out of the woodworks.

Pertaining to Bell's position,

Not sure what to think of that, yet.

I'm hoping other's will join in to scrutinize this.

thanks,

chris

This animation shows the alteration of evidence in the assassination of

John F. Kennedy.

As I had described in my previous topic, there were doubles of Zapruder/Sitzman.

They appear in Bell, Betzner, Bronson and in Wiegman as I have previously pointed out.

The Bell movie gave the alterationists troubles.

I'm pretty sure Bell filmed the 3 people behind the wall, on the steps to the pergola, as well as up on the pedestal at the same time.

This was a big problem.

What did they do to the Bell movie.

They got rid of the people on the pedestal and blurred the 3 people on the stairs.

Don't believe it, watch Bell and notice when the camera jiggling/blurring occcurs.

It happens gradually leading into Z/Sitz walking away from the wall.

If you take a look at the animation, they didn't get the wall lined up and they darkened up the background.

More importantly, the pergola light opening in Bell, is not a light opening at all.

It is a cutout window used to register pieces of film.

Besides being nowhere near the Moorman light openings, watch as the figures on the pedestal fade out and the cutout fades in.

What does the cutout encompass from the Moorman picture.

Notice the notch in the cutout, fits nicely over the Moorman figure.

Old style graphic arts, its what I've done for along time.

cheers

chris

P.S.

Do all the rescaling, resizing, reblurring, re re re you want.

It's not going to help.

Chris...the amazing thing about your find is that it appears that the same

woman with white sleeves on the pedestal in Bronson appears in a different

place in the frame you show. This woman cannot be in both places.

Great work!

Jack

Thanks Jack,

There were people on the pedestal, just wasn't Z/Sitz.

Just to difficult to tell the difference with the photos we had to work with.

chris

P.S.

Included is the original from the Bell movie.

I'm sorry I didn't post that first with the other.

Chris, you are getting poor Jack's hopes up over something that doesn't exist. While I can appreciate your at least recognizing sunspots on a wall as Zapruder and Sitzman are walking away from the pedestal ... I must point out that Bell filmed those same sunspots for quite some time after the assassination even after the crowds had made their way up the walkway. Even the motorcade has long since left the plaza and the regular street traffic is moving down Elm Street.

Many of them later passes Bell made of that same spot are clearer than the image you chose to use so to imply that a woman was standing on the wall. If you guys do not wish to have this forum viewed as one consisting of a bunch of nuts, then try and check your observations out thoroughly by thinking them through before posting them to the forum as factual.

Bill

Bill,

I'm sorry that all you'll ever see is sunspots.

Next you'll tell me that it's not a hat/face in Betzner that I pointed out. Which by the way shows 3 people on the wall. Another coincidence.

It's too bad you have some preconceived notion about what is and isn't the truth.

It's called following the masses.

People can judge for themselves.

Later this afternoon, I'll put together a little collage of my sunspots and the matching photos that go with them.

chris

Chris...the amazing thing about your find is that it appears that the same

woman with white sleeves on the pedestal in Bronson appears in a different

place in the frame you show. This woman cannot be in both places.

Great work!

Jack

Thanks Jack,

There were people on the pedestal, just wasn't Z/Sitz.

Just to difficult to tell the difference with the photos we had to work with.

chris

P.S.

Included is the original from the Bell movie.

I'm sorry I didn't post that first with the other.

Chris,

It`s at this time that I wouldn`t mind talking to you on the phone(remember when I asked you about how many hats you see ?)

"Look at #2 and what's he wearing atop his head."

I`ve seen at least 10 of these (probably more)

Michael,

you can reach me at

chris@3125.us

Then I'll pass on my phone # to you.

Bill,

I'm giving you the story.

The frame is from Groden's version of the Bell movie.

Sitzman and Zapruder appear about 10 frames later walking away from the wall.

They had doubles/standins of them.

Please go back and look at the Betzner from Life magazine that I posted.

The hat and eyes match the hat and eyes of #2 in Bell.

The lady in Bronson who I said is filming with white sleeves and a dark dress is #3 in Bell.

The guy labeled #1 has a vest on.

I believe he is the white shirted guy in Wiegman.

Take a look at that photo, fill in the rest of his shirt area and you could have the vest. Least sure about this guy.

There's never a clear picture of Sitzman/Zapruder on the pedestal, this is why.

It's no coincidence,

It's what was done.

chris

P.S.

There is no exact time sequence for photos/movies after the shooting.

Remember, Bell's film was cut.

But not in this sequence. Z/Sitz are off the wall about 10 frames after the frame I have supplied.

Remember, Zapruder and Sitzman are off the pedestal.

If you want to double check, be my guest.

Look at #2 and what's he wearing atop his head.

I count 3 people.

The old switcharoo was in motion.

cheers

Chris Davidson

They used a combination of these people in the other photos.

Look at the eyes on the hat man #2, they match the Betzner eyes in the photo from Life magazine.

Her dress is black, she has white sleeves, which matches the Bronson I posted.

Don't know who #1 is.

Their in the same spot where ducking man appears in Nix.

Here it is again with some distortion enhancement.

chris

Remember, Zapruder and Sitzman are off the pedestal.

If you want to double check, be my guest.

Look at #2 and what's he wearing atop his head.

I count 3 people.

The old switcharoo was in motion.

cheers

Chris Davidson

I'm sorry,

I should have compared it to another version.

Let's take a look at both.

Oops, my guy moves in the opposite direction as the sunspots do.

I think the sunspots bend in the same manner.

What direction do the sunspots move in Groden's version?

2 different films, same spot moves in opposite directions.

And for those interested, here's another version of our running lady and that incredible arm and sliding sleeve.

Or is it glare from the tire rim.

I'm a little confused.

chris

Hey Joe, get down.

Why?

Nix might get you on film.

Don't worry about it, we'll just say it's lights and shadows.

OK. Keep doing your pushups.

RIGHT

chris

The camera movement has bent the sunspots on the shelter wall between frames. This has given off the illusion of movement. Look to the right of the box in your clip and watch the same thing happen to the illuminated parts of the colonnade.

I'm sorry,

I should have compared it to another version.

Let's take a look at both.

Oops, my guy moves in the opposite direction as the sunspots do.

O.K.

Let's also take a look at a woman in the audience.

She's running so quickly, her arm is falling off.

This is a few frames before my guy Joe ducks for cover. What a coincidence.

chris

Hey Joe, get down.

Why?

Nix might get you on film.

Don't worry about it, we'll just say it's lights and shadows.

OK. Keep doing your pushups.

RIGHT

chris

Yes, I sure do believe this cr--p has been altered.

Please prove what colored dress she is wearing in your supplied Bronson photo. post2

I have asked over and over for Bill to post his quality stuff so there is no doubt about what we are seeing.

I guess what he supplied in post2 is his quality stuff.

chris

It is one thing to believe the films and photos are altered, but making moronic errered observations by way of the poorer quailty images to choose from makes you look incompetent. For instance, what kind of ridiculous statement was that you made about proving what colored dress Sitzman wore in the Bronson slide which shows the woman in deep shadow due to the angle at which she was photographed in relation to the sun? Do you know that you can take a photo of the same person from the same location with two cameras and have their clothing to appear to be different colors just because of the difference in film stock that they used? Let me offer a proof of alteration using your logic ... In sunlight the limo is blue, but in shadow while passing through the underpass it is black ... this must mean the film has been altered! How more silly can one be about it!

Bill could you please post a full frame of the Bronson slide in question? Also I need to clear up a little history about the Bronson slide. IIRC is it correct that the original slide was quite under-exposed? Did someone create a lightened dupelicate slide?

Thanks

Why ask Bill? As far as I know, ALL COPIES OF THE BRONSON SLIDE ORIGINAL WERE MADE BY ME.

Bill has never seen the original. I have. I copied it both in color and b/w. I gave Groden and Gary

Mack good copies of the slide, and I think Gary Shaw also. Reproductions you see in books were

from my copies.

The original Bronson slide was WELL EXPOSED, but had the characteristic blocked up green areas

characteristic of Kodachorme, though I do not remember the slide mount, nor do I remember examining

the original emulsion for the characteristic "etch" of Kodachrome. The color saturation looked more like

Kodachrome than Ektachrome (shadows in green areas are dark, like Kodachrome.)

The exposure was made with a camera with a focal plane shutter (I later confirmed it was a Leica)

at a slow shutter speed, likely one-thirtieth, because the camera was "jiggled" halfway through the

exposure while the shutter curtain was traveling across the focal plane. This resulted in the LEFT HALF

of the slide having NO BLUR (pedestal area), but the right having VERTICAL MOTION BLUR (limo area).

If I had the ability to post images here, I would post a good image of the entire slide, showing the

excellent color quality. Perhaps Chris will post it for me. I sent him a scan from one of my slides.

Chris...it is OK with me if you post the full Bronson slide here. Researchers need something better

to examine than they have seen before. Convert the TIFF I sent you to JPG in order to post it.

Jack

Not a problem,

Bronson photo contributed by Jack White.

thanks

chris

Todays mystery: The assassination occurred on 11/22/63 ... what year was it that Jack started seeing a waltzing Sitzman and how many strokes did he have to get to that point?

The single most shameful and contemptible post I've yet seen on an assassination website.

Paul, what it means is that Jack didn't look at the Bronson slide and start misreading it 30 to 40 years ago. All this started when he went on some sort of 'alteration witch hunt'. I also see that Chris is following suit. What kind of joker looks at Sitzman in deep shadow and says that she is now wearing a different colored dress than what she wore in the Zapruder film before the motorcades arrival? We are consistently seeing a few people who are asking things like why can't we see something in a poor image that we see in a good one ... well dah!!!

Yes, I sure do believe this cr--p has been altered.

Please prove what colored dress she is wearing in your supplied Bronson photo. post2

I have asked over and over for Bill to post his quality stuff so there is no doubt about what we are seeing.

I guess what he supplied in post2 is his quality stuff.

chris

Bill, post 33 is there for everyone to disect.

The aspect ratio has not been changed. All 3 photos are the same size.

Pretty clear to see.

chris

The photos may be cropped to the same size, but the people seen on them are not scaled accordingly.

As I have done in post 33,

I took all 3 photos into photoshop, layered/registered Zapruder, created a animated gif of the layers.

Now, if you would like me to post all 3 individually, that's fine, just request it.

If not, here's a suggestion for those that don't enjoy photo layering.

Take the areas Bill has suggested don't fit and put a finger on the distance between, as the animation plays.

What changes? NOTHING BECAUSE THEIR ALL THE SAME SIZE.

Forget about some silly measuring rule he supplies of ONE photo.

I'm showing 3 photos, one layered exactly over the other, and they fit LIKE A GLOVE.

chris

As usual, I showed what was done, how it was scaled correctly, and overlayed them for others to see.

As usual, you showed nothing.

chris

The hell you say! Your scaling is do goddamned far off that you have different lengths between images between Zapruder's elbows to his shoulders and also from his waist to his shoulders. Now do I need to point out some more obvious flaws or do you wish to admit that you showed us nothing - AS USUAL!

Bill, post 33 is there for everyone to disect.

The aspect ratio has not been changed. All 3 photos are the same size.

Pretty clear to see.

chris

Thank you Chris. Jack explains the glasses/using optical equipment problem well.

So IF he wears glasses while filming and IF he looks down the top of the camera (which this image shows has a couple of inline knobs and a number of clear straight lines) and IF the (apparewnt) coronas centre is the viewfinder: Then pointing the camera at the Limo makes the hat / camera no problem.

John,

Here's both photos with your camera in the same position.

I used my original because it gives separation to the hat and face.

Your positioned camera is nowhere near his face or eyes.

chris

Why you would think I'm trying to deceive other's is beyond me.

Can we proceed now with the hat/face that doesn't fit the body.

chris

Chris, I didn't say that you tried to decieve anyone, but rather you didn't scale your images correctly which is more of a sign of incompetence than deception.

Bill

As usual, I showed what was done, how it was scaled correctly, and overlayed them for others to see.

As usual, you showed nothing.

chris

Furnished by Jack White

chris

Todays mystery: The assassination occurred on 11/22/63 ... what year was it that Jack started seeing a waltzing Sitzman and how many strokes did he have to get to that point?

Bill,

Perhaps this will refresh everyone's memory of what Sitzman was wearing that day.

That lady on the wall isn't Sitzman.

chris

Furnished by Jack White

chris

John,

Provided by Jack White.

B/H 414 Owners manual showing how the camera is held.

chris

Maybe this time we can point out the body features.

Let's see,

1.There's the white arm and shoulder at the camera holding position.

2.The white arm attaches to the TAN hand.

3.And the hand holds the camera up to the face.

Who's filming in this one?

For a sharper image, reduce your viewing size.

chris

John,

I believe I kept one that wasn't descreened. Thought I trashed all those.

Here it is, if interested.

chris

Make no mistake about it Chris,I can see what you are talking about but,I`m just not in a position to be able to help out in this matter.

Michael,

Perhaps now you can see the man's face whose body fits the suit.

Now that looks like a proportionate human being.

What did I do.

I selected that area which I see as a human being, and increased the color intensity. Which is one slide of the mouse in Photoshop. That's it.

chris

Bill,

If that's the case, then all the comparisons supplied with the white shirted man in Wiegman are invalid.

At least the claims where some dunce said he saw a man in a white shirt on the pedestal with Sitzman are invalid.

And I guess that's not light through trees, but a person after all.

No, it is light through the trees - it always was light through the trees.

Yes, you can take photos from different angles and positions and compare. It's called 3Dimensional Registration.

If you could do that, then there would have been no silly post made about a third or fourth person on the pedestal. And yes, one can cross reference photos, but your Zapruder was not scaled correctly vertically.

Bill,

Supplied is the photo from John's original post #6 in this thread. That's what I used.

He then posted it with yellow line measurement's in post #8, also supplied.

The third is what I posted.

There all the same size.

Here is all three for everyone's comparison.

Please download it and put it back together yourselves, if anyone cares.

If you look closely, you can see I cropped off a little of mine on the right side when I used it for the original posted animation.

Thats' cropped not Rescaled, as they are still the same size.

Why you would think I'm trying to deceive other's is beyond me.

Can we proceed now with the hat/face that doesn't fit the body.

chris

Thank's for the date. This is why I wanted to see the unaltered original image used, warts and all. If what looks like a hexagonal corona is the eye piece projecting the light from behind the camera it may be it alters (double exposes?) the B film in that area as Betzner photographs that projection which is more concentrated light as well as that which that light as a consequence may mask.

If, as the photo of Z using his camera indicates, Z looks over the camera when filming, perhaps using the centre join or something on the top of it as a sight, then one needs to look for the camera differently.

Thanks John,

We only have the picture which you provided of Zapruder filming.

Is that to say he wore his glasses when he filmed, not necessarily.

But, I'd like to think that picture is indicative of what he normally would do.

chris

Ok Chris,

Let`s start at the cement wall.Take a look to the far left of the wall,and go up to about the height of Abraham Zapruders knees and lower.If you look closely(to the far left) at what appears to be bushes,or are in fact bushes,one might see up to about 4 images that look similar to men wearing hats.Two of them appear to be of the military or law enforcement type.

Another point of inspection would be to pan to are right & look real close at an image seen in the lower leg of Abraham Zapruder.

Now,before I go any further,and making myself look even more foolish,are you able to see what may look like a Highway Patrolman or a person on the police force that rides a motorcycle,stepping down from one part of the wall to another or another gentleman that appears to be wearing a light color pair of pants,with a belt on,right beside Abe on his right side?

Michael,

Not sure what your getting at.

If it's that we all perceiive things differently, I totally agree.

I created Jesus in the sky from a Wiegman frame, that I thought looked pretty good, which others could see plainly.

Do you actually see these as real?

I'm more concerned with the hat which does not belong to the dark suit.

If someone would like to fill in a face for me with a camera up to it, and sync it with the hat, that would be very helpful.

thanks

chris