Chris Davidson

Trask quote:

A man is running in the street, probably Secret Service Agent Lem Johns who had jumped out of his own vehicle and who now physically vaults over the trunk into Camera Car 2, which is beginning to pull out on the left around Camera Car 1.

Trask: Page 426

Time to count heads.

Cameracar1 starts with 2 men atop the seats as we see earlier.

Wiegman joins which makes 3.

Craven makes 4.

And Atkins is 5.

Where is Lem Johns?

Wiegman says Lem jumped in his car.

Craven says they grabbed at Lem as he jumped in the car.

Trask says Lem jumped into cameracar2.

chris

Tom Craven quote:

I recall Lem Johns running and sort of vaulting from the street over the trunk and us grabbing at him."

Trask: page 375

Tom Craven is getting ready to jump on the trunk and into cameracar 1.

Tom Atkin's is closing in.

chris

James,

That's Tom Atkin's closing in.

You're about one posting ahead of me. Hold on.

thanks

chris

Tom Craven and Tom Atkin's follow Wiegman, who are all running after cameracar 1.

chris

James,

That is Dave Wiegman chasing cameracar 1.

Check my previous post.

chris

Wiegman is done filming.

He now starts chasing cameracar 1.

This footage is from Tom Atkin's or Tom Craven.

chris

Wiegman quote:

When I came back down the hill Lem Johns didn't have a ride and I said, Come on, get in our car. Here it is,' and he jumped in our car.

Trask: page 374

When Wiegman gets to the bottom of the hill he starts filming.

First the Newman's to his left, then turns toward the street as he films cameracar 1 approaching with those 2 men atop the seats. The same guys we see in Couch from my previous post. Then turns and films toward the Chism's up the knoll, and lastly back down toward the street as his film ends.

The following pictures show Wiegman filming and a frame from his film.

chris

Hi Chris,

Who do we gave credit to for the image of Johns?

National Archives II?

Thanks.

johnw

John,

That photo was supplied by Bernice Moore, previously.

I believe it was taken by Cecil Stoughton while Johnson was being sworn in, aboard the plane.

This next photo is from Couch's movie.

Wiegman is near the bottom of the hill. Altgen's is nearby.

Cameracar 1 is approaching, with 2 men atop the seats.

chris

I'm looking for a picture of ASAIC Lem Johns in Dealy Plaza on 11-22-63.

Why he doesn't appear in post-assassination photo's is rather puzzling to me.

To start with, his statement regarding his actions on 11-22-63. Thanks Bernice!

thanks

chris

Bernice,

I believe this shows both within the same photo.

chris

I just viewed most of the assassination films. I noticed something I didn't before and I never heard anyone mention it. And maybe it's the fault of the sunlight, but...

Many people believe there was another film being recorded besides the Zapruder film. Abraham Zapruder was a decoy. What he and Marilyn Sitzman were standing on was a very thin, flimsy section of wall; almost impossible to stand on it, 4 feet from the ground. I don't think you could stand on it with both feet. It would have to be one foot in front of the other. To add to this absurdity, Zapruder nursed a fear of heights. (The last told to me by a certain researcher.) Some Kennedy researchers believe they have seen the "real" film, made for the govt or intel or oil barons' pleasure, more or less. But where is the camera? Supposedly it is filmed at an angle not far from Zapruder. There's a theory that a tripod and cameraman were in the Pergola behind and to Zapruder's left. I have never seen proof of this. What I have seen ---

I went on youtube.com and watched the assassination films again. Except for the Z-film, I hadn't seen them for a long time. I noticed something and it may not amount to anything. In the Towner film, the camera on the South Knoll, opposite of where Zapruder was shows what looks to me to be night lights over -- I don't recall what it's called -- the arcade roof. This is the structure between the Grassy Knoll and the TBSD. These lights showed up on Towner, but on the Bell film, the camera swung over the arcade roof twice. The first time, they just weren't there. The next time, I swear, they were whited out. -- Now I could be wrong.

My thought is maybe one of them held a camera. Otherwise, why are they in Towner and not in Bell? Both films were taken feet away from each other, I could tell. And close in time. I'm sure someone knows more about this.

Another odd thing I noticed in the Hughes film. Frames I've seen show a whiting out via a fake "ledge" that has no reason to be there at the shooter's window. I've noticed another "ledge" on the TSBD in a different film, not any I viewed today. But in youtube's copy of Hughes, this white out doesn't exist.

But the main thing is the whereabouts of the camera. Has anyone seen this? Could it be those "lights"?

Kathy

Hi Kathleen,

Can you provide any photos of the area you're describing?

Here are a couple that might help.

Let us know if my interpretation is wrong.

chris

Bernice,

Thanks for providing Lem John's personal statement.

Quote from Trask's POTP:page 374

I'll start with Wiegman:

"When I came back down the hill Lem Johns didn't have a ride and I said, Come on, get in our car. Here it is,' and he jumped in our car."

That would be cameracar #1.

Provided is Dillard's #25 showing cameracar #1. Lem John's photo above it.

Is Lem Johns in this car?

chris

A few other's.

chris

Good Day.... If you would like to view the 1h 30m documentary, "Beyond 'JFK'; The Question of Conspiracy" (1992), it is now available, in its entirety, free online for you, here....

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?d...34009&hl=en

Best Regards in Research,

Don

Thanks, Don. I was able to download this as an .avi file & view it with non-google media players.

Question, please, for Don, Gil Jesus, or for anyone:

At about 10.51 (min/sec) in Beyond "JFK" there is a very short black & white clip of a (press) bus & squad car going under the triple underpass as seen from a camera shooting from the south side of Elm. This clip seems to be taken from a longer film, one of the films taken immediately after the assassination. This clip appears during the segment of Robert MacNeil describing his actions at Dealey Plaza.

Which film is this clip from? Is there a download source for it on the web?

Thanks!

Miles,

That would be the Jimmy Darnell film. He was a cameraman for WBAP-TV, riding in camera car 3. Was not in the car when he filmed this.

There are 2 segments for a total of 8 seconds.

chris

If it helps.

Mr. Ball.

Didn't you, when you went over to the railroad yard, talk to some yardman?

Mr. Weitzman.

I asked a yardman if he had seen or heard anything during the passing of the President. He said he thought he saw somebody throw something through a bush and that's when I went back over the fence and that's when I found the portion of the skull. I thought it was a firecracker portion; that's what we first were looking for. This was before we knew the President was dead.

Mr. Ball.

Did the yardman tell you where he thought the noise came from?

Mr. Weitzman.

Yes, sir; he pointed out the wall section where there was a bunch of shrubbery and I believe that's to the right where I went over the wall where the steampipe was; that would be going north back toward the jail.

Mr. Ball.

I think that's all. Do you have any desire to read this over and sign it or will you waive signature?

Mr. Weitzman.

I will waive my signature. I don't think the Government is going to alter my statement any.

Source:

Warren Commission Hearings, Vol. VII, p. 105.

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/history/wc_pe...t/Weitzman.html

chris

This topic got accidentally bumped by me mistakenly posting a post belonging to the "CIA stooge.." here.

To make more sense of the post there are images needed.

The post:

Jack "A rifle bullet striking an aluminum pole would penetrate, not "might make a dent"."

(unless it is a glancing strike)

"to fire in that direction negates the entire "sniper nest" theory, since the gunman would have to face a different direction."

Yup, that's it.

Most amusing coincidence.

A look at a DalTex window in Altgens and an (incomplete) analysis of trajectory made me suggest this very thing last year.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...&qpid=73667

John : "the yellow line here is the angle of the sun from this direction as it throws shadows on the building. The tip of the gun (likely silenced (firecracker not so loud bouncing between tsbd and daltex)) camouflaged with wrapping? Gun supported by bipod on sill. Distance gun protruding can be derived using location of tip shadow.Seems like a long barrel. The scope is illuminating left (his left) forehead area. (see film of rifle in corridor as the scope just lines up in one frame, very bright)

Southpaw shooter. Large caucasian man. Dark hair. Professional gear> professional shooter.

One shot deliberately planted in back. Then other shooters take over. As each shooter fires, leaves immediately. The last shot is when the first and second shooter is already leaving. What is escape route from DalTex? Was it ever searched for rifle?

Could the bullet have grazed the lamppost extension? Sound?

If the post is still there, is it the same as then?> ladder, look" "

(image)

John,

The left window in question. Is it open or closed?

The windows to the right both have a white frame(arrows) from which one would push up/down the window.

Where is that white frame in the left window? Whether it's open or closed. Shouldn't we see it?

chris

This topic got accidentally bumped by me mistakenly posting a post belonging to the "CIA stooge.." here.

To make more sense of the post there are images needed.

The post:

Jack "A rifle bullet striking an aluminum pole would penetrate, not "might make a dent"."

(unless it is a glancing strike)

"to fire in that direction negates the entire "sniper nest" theory, since the gunman would have to face a different direction."

Yup, that's it.

Most amusing coincidence.

A look at a DalTex window in Altgens and an (incomplete) analysis of trajectory made me suggest this very thing last year.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...&qpid=73667

John : "the yellow line here is the angle of the sun from this direction as it throws shadows on the building. The tip of the gun (likely silenced (firecracker not so loud bouncing between tsbd and daltex)) camouflaged with wrapping? Gun supported by bipod on sill. Distance gun protruding can be derived using location of tip shadow.Seems like a long barrel. The scope is illuminating left (his left) forehead area. (see film of rifle in corridor as the scope just lines up in one frame, very bright)

Southpaw shooter. Large caucasian man. Dark hair. Professional gear> professional shooter.

One shot deliberately planted in back. Then other shooters take over. As each shooter fires, leaves immediately. The last shot is when the first and second shooter is already leaving. What is escape route from DalTex? Was it ever searched for rifle?

Could the bullet have grazed the lamppost extension? Sound?

If the post is still there, is it the same as then?> ladder, look" "

(image)

Double post

Next one if you will.

chris

When referring to the press coverage and the effect of the major magazine pictorials which were used, does anyone on the forum misunderstand the role and influence which Mr. & Mrs Luce, alone, exerted on the "medias" position?

Is there anyone here that doubts their political, and financial inclinations and the power and influence which they "in fact" brought to bear on this case ? Have you ever asked what effect Life Magazine and the major media had on the INITIAL impressions presented to the world ? And more importantly how those initial impressions stll affect this case?

I can say that I believe that the effect of the media, may have over the years, done more to disguise the truth than did the Warren Commission.

Does anyone believe that there is a "free press"?

What is reported by the media MUST of course be influenced by those who sign their paychecks.....or someone new is waiting and willing to fill their very high priced shoes.

What is reported is controlled by that same power that controls the executive, legislative and judicial branches of the U.S. government.

To those who are now paid to be the "talking heads" to which we tune in daily, "free press" is as ridiculous a theory as "free sex." Neither truly exist.

Without planning, I happened to mention both the subjects of "sex" and Mr. & Mrs Luce in this same thread. For those of you who have not done so, I don't feel that you should be surprised at the partners whom they both chose for their extra-marital sexual affairs.... if you care to so investigate. But I won't spread gossip...even tho it can be referenced !

This truly is a very small and very wierd world in which we live. Six degrees of separation is not an exaggeration !

Charlie Black

Charlie,

They had the local press controlled fairly early, also.

According to Mary Woodward (Reporter), who was on Elm St. and saw Kennedy's head explode.

Some of her interview from "TMWKK".

chris

Hello All

I realize that this WILL seem to be a ridiculous question by many, but due to my lack of experience and understanding of photo interpretation, I would appreciate a reply if even my question is considered a fantasy.

If there were NO Zilm as a refernce or timing point that could be considered, how would it effect your interpretation of the two shooting positions from what these depictions seem to imply ? Could there have been two simultaneous shots considered as if two shooters were firing on direct command ?

I am not attempting to divert this thread into another discussion of Z film authenticity, and I wont. But my question is serious and can be answered regardless of your individual interpretations of the Z film timing and authenticity.

As a result of "these" images which seem to me to portray two differet shooters, would the "absence" of the Z film contribute in one way or another to your conclusions.

Please excuse my genuine lack of filming knowledge,and this may certainly be an ignorant question arising from that; but this IS a sincere question and not an attempt on my part to introduce or promote contradiction !

Charlie Black

Hi Charles,

I didn't use it as a timing reference to the headshot/Z film. If that's the indication I gave, I apologize.

According to the acoustical evidence I've heard, the last 2 shots were approx. 7/10 second apart. Fired on direct command from close but different positions, quite possible.

Shooting position is established by the enhanced photo. imo

When/If they fired from THIS position, unsure at this point.

chris

Robin,

My interpretation may be totally wrong.

You make an interesting point

on why this particular area of the photo

seems to be blemished.

Has someone attempted to draw a veil

over that area?

EBC

That post was made sometime ago, i have had a re-think on the green "blemished area" and i no longer agree with the comment i made regarding it.

If you look at the corrolation between the two annotated photo's above it puts the person with two hands raised way over in the top right hand corner of the wiegman frame, and the one you colorised right down the bottom in the middle, even lower than the Dark complected man in the left hand corner.

I think it is very important to look at both photo's together.

A and E would appear to be O.K.

B might be a problem.

B body fits E head in Altgen's

Inset shows B body below E head in Wiegman.

Validated Time Sync Needed.

chris

Hi Bernice, yes it's the same position as in the Nix frame which you uploaded, which Rick Needham agreed on before much later doing an unexpected 360 degrees about turn to agree with Bills hypothesis. I'm not at home at the moment, so I can't capture the Mark Lane frame which shows Holland at his spot. Maybe Chris could do this and do an analysis of the locations to tie them up or not, and if not, i'll do it on Friday... Chris?

Duncan

Duncan,

From Holland's interview with Lane.

I'll leave the analysis to you.

What Bernice supplied previously appears to be very accurate in terms of distance. imo

I believe there are 3 men in the position you have described. (Moorman Photo Enhanced)

At this point, I assume he is just one of the shooters along that fence.

Did he take the headshot? Don't know, but at the least, he's prepared to shoot.

By the way, the aspect ratio on what I have supplied has not been changed.

I believe the animation clearly shows it's a cop's hat.

Or is it another coincidence that the hat shapes match quite nicely.

chris

Thanks Chris, for the animation.

Duncan

Glad to do it.

The previous animation showed the white hat is the shape of a police hat. imo

Here's one that might be a little more definitive.

Duncan, I believe there are 3 people in your hatman area.

1. He is standing behind the shooter #2. His face is partially obscurred by the rifle. But look at his suit and tie just above the wall.

2. The shooter. Sighting through rifle. His face partially obscurs #1.

3. White hatman. Not sure if he is a shooter or a cop cover for the shooter.

4. The rifle appears to be military. Short gunbutt. Flip-up sight. Reminds me of an assault style rifle. I don't know squat about guns, but that would be my best analogy.

chris

P.S.

Added enlarged and more darkened version for viewing. If too bug, stand back from computer 5-10 ft.

This is my take on the simultaneous head shot theory. It goes back as far as 2003

I have posted many times my belief that a shooter was at the right side of the tree,and that this is the man that Ed Hoffman seen,and not the "Hatman" seen at the left side of the tree. The recent ( to me ) information posted here by Wim re: The Mark Lane interview with Sam Holland, appears to support this theory.

Some say my shooter can not be a shooter as the skyline in their opinion runs through the top of the picket fence.I dispute this vehemently and claim that this skyline is merely a result of degradation in that area of the Moorman polaroid.This same degradation effect can be seen on the front of the fence below this shooter, seperate from shadows caused by I believe pyrecantha trees. I have outlined the shape of the shooter for ease of viewing. The rifle appears to be short in length.

Duncan

Duncan,

Maybe there were multiple hatmen.

If it helps.

chris

chris,

Could you "outline" any possible figures which you point to with the two red arrows? Thx

Miles

Hi Miles,

I hope the animation gives you a better idea of what I initially saw, in regards to the white hat on the right.

On the left is a person with a black hat on. imo

At this point, I can only see the hats and partial faces attached, above the fence.

Duncan, I believe your theory is very promising.

chris

This is my take on the simultaneous head shot theory. It goes back as far as 2003

I have posted many times my belief that a shooter was at the right side of the tree,and that this is the man that Ed Hoffman seen,and not the "Hatman" seen at the left side of the tree. The recent ( to me ) information posted here by Wim re: The Mark Lane interview with Sam Holland, appears to support this theory.

Some say my shooter can not be a shooter as the skyline in their opinion runs through the top of the picket fence.I dispute this vehemently and claim that this skyline is merely a result of degradation in that area of the Moorman polaroid.This same degradation effect can be seen on the front of the fence below this shooter, seperate from shadows caused by I believe pyrecantha trees. I have outlined the shape of the shooter for ease of viewing. The rifle appears to be short in length.

Duncan

Duncan,

Maybe there were multiple hatmen.

If it helps.

chris

Can you separate these two people.

Robin, you are looking at one man - not two people.

Bill

Bill to my eyes it appears to be two separate people, i may be wrong but i don't think so, if that is one shape, it doesnt corrolate to any HUMAN form i have ever seen.

I am not the first to have seen two people in this image.

If you beleive it is only one person, can you outline it more clearly, so i can see what you are looking at. !

This is what is see.

Robin,

You are right on target.

Hope this helps.

There is someone in front of the person with their arms in the air.

I can see a hat. (top arrow)

Left ear/side of face. (side arrow)

Left shoulder/arm. (Red lines).

There is some type of light streak that extends out from his face.(Alteration ?)

The black area underneath that light streak is SUPPOSED to be all of the female african-american's hair. I believe

I'll see if I have any other coverage of that area. Give me a little time.

Outstanding discovery,

chris

P.S.

What you have designated as his right elbow is also correct, and this person is holding something. What that is, appears to be undistinguishable at

this time.