Myra Bronstein
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Posts posted by Myra Bronstein
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It makes one wonder why this sort of thing does not happen more often. A large group acting in solidarity will always defeat a few individuals. However, the same could be said of human beings. Marx would argue that animals lack the concept of class consciousness. I wonder if this event will change their behaviour in the future. Do you thing the young animal survived? It walked away but it must have suffered terrible injuries.
The tour guide was interviewed on the news and said he didn't see any remains in the next few days/weeks, and he did look for them. So--as incredible as it seems--the calf may have survived.
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Hi Myra,
As I said in my post, the source for this information is from conversations with John Judge about his mothers work in the pentagon.
All the best,
John
Oh gosh, how ever could I have missed the statement that the information is from conversations with John Judge?
Hmm, still missing it. Where exactly in your post did you state that John?
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Alex Jones did an article on Wikipedia censorship for his site a couple of weeks back, which I've linked below. It seems that there is a commited team of Wiki censors who openly target any and all conspiracy related material for immediate deletion, and (in many instances) general leftwing material critical of the Bush administration is removed as well. Even fully backed up, non-speculative, factual recounting of information that differs from their viewpoint is removed. The Jones piece is worth reading as it provides a link to the main page of the key offenders, all of whom openly brag in detail of their efforts and who post 'zany' insult pictures of themselves standing around wearing tinfoil hats - no joke - to ridicule anyone who attempts to address conspiracy related material in an openminded manner on Wikipedia. For what it's worth, Jones posted his article below and announced a campaign to get members to attack, defend, repair and rebut the damage done by the goons in question, and then had his own site hit by a major hack attack a day or so later. Spooky stuff! For my own part the article and links provided by Jones' piece just made me angry. I've engaged in Wiki comments discussions there defending conspiracy related material on 9/11 - the majority of key books on 9/11 conspiracy material have all had their individual pages removed - but the general tone is very hostile and it takes a lot of time and energy.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2...07fightback.htm
Interesting Anthony, thanks for the link.
Here's what he wants people to do:
"Remember - e mail info-en-v@wikimedia.org and complain that the user at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Morton_devonshire is deleting and editing pages against Wikipedia policy and with a clear political bias. Demand that his administration and editing privileges be removed immediately."
Do you know if Alex created the "War Room" yet?
Wiki is indeed a serious problem...
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Myra,
Not long after Freddie Prinze's death, a made-for-t.v. movie about his last days was aired on one of the major networks. I watched it naively, thinking it would have to mention the subject that, according to Mark Lane, completely consumed him at that time. Shockingly enough, no mention of the JFK assassination at all in the movie. Prinze's widow was a consultant to this broadcast, and she had to have known that her husband was thoroughly obsessed with this subject, to the exclusion of all others, in the last year of his life. The fact that she allowed such a piece of sensationalist trash to be aired, with its constant emphasis on his drug abuse, and how that led inevitably to his "suicide," while ignoring the subject that was so important to him, contributed greatly to my growing cynicism about the world.
For those who are interested, Lane told us (myself and another teenage volunteer) that Freddie Prinze had been calling him regularly, and wanted to try and "do something" to get the JFK case reopened. Apparently, his best friend at the time, Tony Orlando, was becoming interested in the subject as well. Prinze had an idea about trying to organize a national telethon to raise funds for a new investigation (this was just prior to Congress establishing the HSCA). He told Lane he was becoming frustrated by the lack of celebrity friends who were interested in the issue. Apparently, only Richard Pryor and Joan Baez had agreed to appear on any such future telethon. It's chilling to consider that, within a few years of this conversation, Prinze would be dead, Orlando would suffer a nervous breakdown and Pryor would nearly freebase himself to death, his life and career never really quite recovering from that. Three out of the token four celebrities who were willing to appear on a telethon to push for a new investigation into the assassination of JFK had terrible things happen to them afterwards. Hmm- I guess we're all familiar with that theme.
One thing that I found very curious, however, about Mark Lane, is the fact that he supposedly told Penn Jones that he didn't remember the JFK connection to Prinze. At least that's what Jones told me in a reply to a letter I sent him, in the early '80s, informing him of the possibly suspicious death of Freddie Prinze. That's one of the questions I'd really like to raise with Mark Lane, if he ever becomes a member here.
Thank you for sharing those details Don.
Very interesting.
It amazes me that when push comes to shove almost no hollywood type bigwig will go out on a limb for a cause no matter how critical. I guess no one wants to get Indigo Girled.
Do you know how long before his death Freddie Prinze was trying to arrange the telethon?
Did Mr. Lane mention what exactly Freddie wanted from him when he called?
Was he calling for information on JFK or to ask for Mr. Lane's support in some way?
Myra
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An example of the latter is Angelo Murgado Kennedy, a Bay of Pigs veteran who claims to have been close to Robert Kennedy. Had Talbot asked any of Murgado's fellow veterans, he would have heard him described as a "persistent xxxx," "a charlatan," and a man with "no credibility"—and these are the printable comments.[4][/indent]
Bohning's citation:
[4] Descriptions supplied to author via e-mail, June 2007. Due to the fractious rivalries still existing within the exile community, none of Murgado’s brigade colleagues were willing to be identified by name. But one was in the same paratroop battalion as Murgado.At least Talbot named his sources.
"The very word, secrecy, is repugnant in a free and open society, and we are as a people, inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings." -- John F Kennedy
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You guys neglected to include the graphic that goes with the article.
The photo offers clear proof that RFK was, in fact, obsessed with getting Castro.
I attached it:
That's a good one Myra.
Castro can't run that fast today -( Beep! Beep! )- and the view of Castro bounding up Hemingway's tower, that he never used, is almost cartoonish. Maybe we can get Dale Myers to do a computer graphics of it.
Now if we knew this would happen in advance, what would be the weapon of choice? Cigar? No. Exploding typewriter? Rabid cat?
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Acme Commie-B-Gone.
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The lions are still in therapy.
There's not enough therapy in the world to help them with that.
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A matter of semantics, the last refuge in a debate.
Nicely said Gary.
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You guys neglected to include the graphic that goes with the article.
The photo offers clear proof that RFK was, in fact, obsessed with getting Castro.
I attached it:
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Really incredible. Love the shot of the "cavalry" coming over the mountain.
Holy cow!
That's jaw-dropping stuff.
Just incredible.
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I've sometimes wondered how various suspects in the JFK assassination could have gotten together in one place, if they ever did, to hatch and help manage a plot. If they all belonged to one organization, such as the ASC, getting together on occasion was no problem.
This is an important point. The American Security Council brought together right-wing multimillionaires, the CIA and senior members of the military. I said yesterday that Patrick Frawley was a candidate for funding the operation. So also was Robert Wood.
Huge point.
John Dolva posted the quote:
"One analyst has said that the ASC is "not just the representative of the military-industrial complex, it is the personification of the military-industrial complex."
I wonder when the analyst said that. Was it circa 1960 when Eisenhower warned against the very military industrial congressional complex he'd nurtured for 8 years?
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I was a teenage volunteer with Mark Lane's organization The Citizens Committe Of Inquiry back in the mid-1970s. We lobbied Congress, called t.v. and radio stations and newspapers, and stuffed envelopes. It was a great thrill to meet him in person one afternoon at his office in Washingtion, D.C. I think I recounted in another post how he related to us his long conversation with comedian Freddie Prinze, who was thoroughly obsessed with the assassination. When Prinze "committed suicide" a few months aftewards, it was yet another unnatural death I connected to the assassination. Actually, I tried to email Mark Lane several months ago, asking him about the Prinze death and also about his conversations with Norman Similas (who I had exchanged some truly memorable emails with a few years ago). He never replied. I thought I had his correct email- does anyone know it?
Anyway, Mark Lane was the first researcher I really looked up to. I have read and own all his books, and they are essential reading.
Wow Don.
I totally missed the Freddy Prinze link.
Thank you.
January 28, 1976 -- Reports surface that comedian Freddie Prinze, activist democrat deeply concerned about who killed JFK & owned a copy of the Zapruder film & spoke openly about his suspicions, committed suicide.
Mae Brussell was deeply suspicious about the Prinze "suicide," and she had great radar.
http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%...e%20Somers.html
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Not that it's my job to defend Tim, but I feel compelled to point out that he is not as stuck in his ways as some might believe. A few years ago he was leaning towards Cuba or the KGB. Now he considers the mob a likely suspect. In another few years--who knows--maybe he'll conclude it was the CIA, and then we can all do a little jig.
I met Tim while on vacation in Key West and would be thoroughly surprised if he was involved in any deliberate disinformation campaign. He's just a little--shall we say--enthusiastic.
It was because of your request that I reinstated Tim. I know he has got round you by flattering your own research. He did the same to me when he first joined the forum. He pretends to agree with you and then attempts to graft his “Castro” did it onto the theory.
I would not take too much notice about his willingness to accept the Mafia was involved. Have you not read his posts when he claims that Castro was in league with the Mafia (he ignores the fact that Castro kicked out the Mafia and that is why they were willing to join forces with the CIA in an attempt to overthrow his regime.)
You describe his style as “enthusiastic”. However, I think the term “manic” is more appropriate. I have no trouble him starting his own threads on how Castro or the KGB assassinated JFK. He has been doing this for years and it causes few problems. In fact, except for a few newbies, most members ignore these threads as they aware that Tim is unwilling to discuss these issues in a rational manner.
My problem is with Tim’s insistence in posting jokes and irrelevant material on important threads. He can be guaranteed to do this on any thread that deals with the CIA and anyone associated with the Republican Party. Look at his postings yesterday for example on the thread on one of the Republican largest donors to extreme right-wing causes, Patrick Frawley.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10684
Tim’s tactic is to post immediately after someone has made an important contribution. His theory is that most members ignore threads where his name appears at the end. I cannot allow this to go on and intend to delete these posts when he does it. I have started this thread where Tim can post his nonsense to his heart’s content. Members can then choose to read this thread or any other he starts up himself.
A masterful solution.
Thanks John.
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-John Judge's mother worked for the Pentagon in 1963 and was the highest paid female civilian there at the time, she was 5 levels above top secret. It was her job to make predictions for troop level numbers that would be needed for the next ten years in advance, based on projections made by the joint chiefs of staff. In April of 1963 she was told to accomodate her figures to include a complete withdrawal of U.S. troops from Vietnam by 1964. In late November of 1963 she was presented with new figures by the joint chiefs and told to make predictions for a ten year war in Vietnam that would have casualties of 52,000 american troops. She could not believe the figures that were presented to her and brought them to the joint chiefs to confirm. She was told to change her predictions on the Monday following the assassination of President Kennedy.
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John
If you could share a source for that info it'd be great John.
...We must understand that the CIA receives only 20% of the total intelligence budget, the rest goes to the DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, which includes the Office of Naval Intelligence, Military Intelligence, Air Force Intelligence and other military intelligence establishments. The CIA is largely a think tank, which formulates plans for the military to act upon. The one thing I notice from pouring over CIA documents is that everybody has a title, everybody is a chief of something. CIA staff in most countries was minimal. If they needed an operation done, they would plan it and hand it over to the military or contract it out to assets.
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John
I would think that since the CIA threw so much business to the military, and gave the military so much justification for its existence, the military would look very favorably on the CIA. Nothing to support this, just seems logical.
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Kathy, I'll ask again. Is it your contention that the ambulance crew that treated Diana were part of the conspiracy.
As someone else said in this thread, the first responders were conspirators. I wonder if the ambulance paramedics could be identified by the ER staff. Of course, all eyes were on Diana.
Kathy
A question back atcha Stephen.
Do you find it odd that the ambulance crew took 1 hour & 45 minutes to transport Diana to a hospital 3.8 miles away passing three other hospitals with excellent emergency facilities in the process?
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Have we learned nothing from our labors on the JFK case?
Before we start dismissing conspiracy in the death of Diana based upon an assessed unlikelihood of participation by the suspects of the moment, let us focus exclusively on the "how" of the event under scrutiny.
Well said.
Anyone in any doubt that it was an assassination might usefully reflect on perhaps the most blatant lie peddled by the British mainstream media ever since. In every recreation I have seen, we are invited to believe that the Mercedes remained the right way up after the crash. It did not. As both my better half and I saw on television on the morning of the accident, and the next day's newspaper accounts from eyewitnesses confirmed, the car came to rest on its roof.
There is plainly something very sensitive here concerning the speed of the Merc and its subsequent trajectory. The question is, what exactly are they hiding? I wish I knew. But I do know, beyond any doubt, that the media is lying; and doing so in an orchestrated fashion.
Paul
"EmergencyNet News *FLASH* Report
08/30/97 - 20:00CDT
Britain's Princess Diana Badly Injured in Crash
By C. L. Staten
Paris, France (EmergencyNet) -- According to Paris police, Princess Diana of England was critically injured this evening in an automobile crash near the river Seine, at the Pont de l'Alma bridge. Her companion in the car, Dodi Al Fayed, was believed killed in the accident, which reportedly happened shortly after midnight (Paris time), police said. The chauffeur of the vehicle was also believed killed in the incident and a fourth passenger, a bodyguard, was reported to be seriously injured.
One eyewitness described the accident as extremely serious and said that the vehicle, in which the princess was travelling, had overturned...."
Much more at:
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Here is a brief of evidence as I understand it that the assassination was carried out at the highhest levels of the military, including Lemay.
-The secure inter governmental and military phone system went out during the assassination, leaving interdepartmental contact difficult.
-The cabinet was in the air at the time, creating a difficulty for chain of command or any notion of stability within the government.
-At any one givn time during the cold war there were 7 bombers in the air on 3 8 hours shifts a day with a payload of nuclear weapons waiting to be dropped at the drop of a hat. When the pilots of these bombers became aware of Kennedy's assassination they rushed to get their command codes, which would tell them what to do in this emergency and would also give them the codes required to drop the bombs. The pilots must have assumed that it was the Soviets that had shot Kennedy and so thought it best that they were prepared to attack. This system was known as the Strategic Air Command, a system designed by general Curtis LeMay. When the pilots on all 7 bombers tried to find their code books, they were gone. The removal of the codebooks could only have come from the top of the chain, as the books needed to go through 17 different sets of hands. The only one who could have had these removed was Curtis Lemay. The reasoning behind was obviously that he knew what was going down in Dallas and did not want others in the military to over react.
-The autopsy of JFK took place at Bethesda, a military hospital. This is crucial in understanding who controlled the cover-up.
-At the time of Kennedy's assassination, the only place that the threat level was raised was in Vietnam, presumably because they knew that they were going to get an influx of troops quite soon.
-John Judge's mother worked for the Pentagon in 1963 and was the highest paid female civilian there at the time, she was 5 levels above top secret. It was her job to make predictions for troop level numbers that would be needed for the next ten years in advance, based on projections made by the joint chiefs of staff. In April of 1963 she was told to accomodate her figures to include a complete withdrawal of U.S. troops from Vietnam by 1964. In late November of 1963 she was presented with new figures by the joint chiefs and told to make predictions for a ten year war in Vietnam that would have casualties of 52,000 american troops. She could not believe the figures that were presented to her and brought them to the joint chiefs to confirm. She was told to change her predictions on the Monday following the assassination of President Kennedy.
We must understand that the CIA receives only 20% of the total intelligence budget, the rest goes to the DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, which includes the Office of Naval Intelligence, Military Intelligence, Air Force Intelligence and other military intelligence establishments. The CIA is largely a think tank, which formulates plans for the military to act upon. The one thing I notice from pouring over CIA documents is that everybody has a title, everybody is a chief of something. CIA staff in most countries was minimal. If they needed an operation done, they would plan it and hand it over to the military or contract it out to assets.
John
Dang, that is a fine post, other person named John.
Some top notch synthesis.
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There are several reasons why Lyman Lemnitzer needs to be considered as someone who might have been involved in the assassination of JFK.
During the Bay of Pigs crisis Lemnitzer advocated that JFK launch an attack on Cuba. Kennedy refused and reminded him "over and over again" that he would not commit U.S. combat forces to save the operation. Kennedy told Arthur Schlesinger that he would not be "overawed by professional military advice". Schlesinger added "he thought Lemnitzer was a dope." Some time after this event Lemnitzer described Kennedy's attitude as "absolutely reprehensible, almost criminal."
On 20th July, 1961, at a National Security Council meeting, Lemnitzer presented Kennedy with an official plan for a surprise nuclear attack on the Soviet Union. Kennedy was disgusted and walked out of the meeting and later remarked to Secretary of State Dean Rusk "and we call ourselves the human race."
In April 1961 General Edwin Walker, commander of the 24th Infantry Division in Europe, was accused of indoctrinating his troops with right-wing literature from the John Birch Society. With the agreement of JFK's Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara relieved Walker of his command and announced an investigation into the affair. Kennedy was accused of trying to suppress the anti-Communist feelings of the military. Walker resigned from the army in protest about the way he had been treated.
David Talbot argues in his book, Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years, that Walker's indoctrination program had been endorsed by General Lemnitzer. Talbot quotes a letter from Lemnitzer to Walker saying that he found his efforts "interesting and useful."
On 13th March, 1962, General Lemnitzer presented Robert McNamara with a top-secret memo, urging President Kennedy to order a variety of shocking incidents to create a rationale for invading Cuba. Code named Operation Northwoods, the memo suggested that the administration should arrange a terror campaign in Miami and Washington that would create international revulsion against the government of Fidel Castro.
JFK summoned Lemnitzer to the Oval Office on 16th March, 1962, where they discussed Operation Northwoods. Kennedy rejected the idea and three months later he told Lemnitzer that he was being moved from the Pentagon to become Commander of U.S. Forces in Europe.
After retiring from the army he was a member of the American Security Council (ASC), the lobby for the military-industrial complex. The ASC was formed by Robert Wood and Robert R. McCormick in 1952. Other members of this organization included Douglas MacArthur, Sam Rayburn, Ray S. Cline, Thomas J. Dodd, W. Averell Harriman, Nelson A. Rockefeller, Eugene V. Rostow, John G. Tower and Patrick J. Frawley. I suspect that members of the ASC could have funded the assassination. If that was the case, Ray Cline might well have been the bagman.
Dang, that is a fine post John.
I didn't even know about the ASC.
Sounds like a big dot to connect.
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" - Just before the car entered the tunnel every police radio in Paris mysteriously died, preventing a quick response which could have saved Diana's life.
- Just before the car entered the tunnel every security camera in the tunnel mysteriously died, preventing us from ever seeing footage of what caused the crash."
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/
If true, those are trademarks of a military intelligence type hit IMO.
I've read many sources claiming the security cameras in the tunnel failed (yeah, right, the dog ate the video), but I've only seen the claim that the police radios died at the above site.
Has anyone else seen/heard anything about the police radios going dead along with Diana?
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Myra, check out the thread Operation Northwoods, it makes a lot of those connections.
Thanks Stephen.
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I only caught the end of it but it zooms in on Kennedy's drug use while in office. The same stuff is covered , in my opinion , in great detail in "JFK, A Presidency Revealed" already. It was on the Discovery Channel ( no surprise there)
and I cannot pick any information about the release anywhere. It is an obvious attempt to smear Kennedy, but for those of you who feel Kennedy was an unfit President and was dealt with accordingly, it provides a possible justification for the higher ups to look the other way when the operation was going down. If in fact the order didnt come from them. ( the General's Staff)
We could play smear bingo here.
The smears are everywhere.
Peter, did they focus on his use of medications for his chronic pain, or on illegal drugs?
On edit: Gads I'm slow.
Was "Altered Statesman" actually the name of the program???
Yes. I believe that was the name of the program. As I said, I just caught the end of it and did recognize the same people from A Presidency Revealed, which I own.
Dr. Max's cocktail did include methamphetamines but supposedly wasnt illegal at the time. I would guess they are going the direction of LSD, Pot and other illegal substances.
Its frustrating because I only saw a five minutes or so of the program and cannot locate anything about it. But I am quite sure of the title.
Altered State (s) man. Clever
Okay. Here is the link to the show:
http://www.tv.com/unsolved-history/jfk-alt...89/summary.html
Thanks Peter.
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Every President has allowed documents, concerning the assassination of JFK, to be withheld. Allowing secrets to remain, is, in my mind, participation in a cover-up after the fact.
I agree.
So do I.
The government's refusal to release all data, 44 years after the assassination, essentially creates a presumption of conspiracy which must be rebutted by Bugliosi, Posner et al.
In civil matter in the US, the loss or destruction of evidence by a party (i.e. spoliated evidence) creates a legal presumption that the same is contrary to the interests of such party.
What secrutiy interest of the US would be breached if it is revealed that: (a) JFK was assassinated by factions of the CIA who colluded with some Mafia dons and anti-Castro Cubans, (
LEO was a CIA asset (in Japan, the USSR, Mexico City, New Orleans and Dallas), © Gerald Ford believes that the neck area extends half-way down to the tail bone, (d) Ted Kennedy and the rest of the family really don't buy the WC as the final word on JFK's assassination, (e) LBJ and some of his oil buddies/benefactors may have had prior knowledge of the assassination, or (f) the AG and the CIA were conspiring with the Mafia to hit Castro?Do Congress and the President really think that they have any remaining credibility that would be lost by any such revelations?
Perhaps all 535 members of Congress could take a break from their busy earmark efforts to give this issue some legislative attention.
Wouldn't that be just swell?
And since, per Pelosi, "impeachment is off the table," the table has plenty of room for the critical business of finally exposing the truth about President Kennedy's murder.
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John, after Northwoods was rejected out of hand, Lemnitzer went into an incredible sulk, refusing to talk directly to JFK, or even to him through McNamara....
Can you point me to a source for this Stephen so I can learn more about it?
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John, hidden somewhere in the vast depths of the Forum, is a thread I started on Lemnitzer, LeMay and Lems sidekick Craig, with special emphasis on the enmity that existed between the Kennedy Administration, and the JCS. I'll see if I cant dig it out.
Lemnitzer and LeMay are prime suspects. If there is a list of the
"military brass" at the JFK autopsy "who seemed to be in charge"
and "dictating to the autopists", I'd bet they were there. It the
operation was a military coup, their hands were unclean...all the JCS.
Jack
Jack, absolutely, the JCS, through Walker and Dulles are prime candidates. there are witnesess who claim that LeMay was present at Bethesda throughout the autopsy, grinning like a Cheshire cat, and chomping on a cheroot.
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Definitely. Not enough attention is paid to Walker and LeMay and Lemnitzer and the JCS.
People here will list their top suspects and they're all Cuban exiles.
That's great work and valid and critical, but the exiles are just one faction in this plot and there is much more to it.
President Kennedy encouraged the filming of "Six Days in May" for a reason.
LEO was a CIA asset (in Japan, the USSR, Mexico City, New Orleans and Dallas), © Gerald Ford believes that the neck area extends half-way down to the tail bone, (d) Ted Kennedy and the rest of the family really don't buy the WC as the final word on JFK's assassination, (e) LBJ and some of his oil buddies/benefactors may have had prior knowledge of the assassination, or (f) the AG and the CIA were conspiring with the Mafia to hit Castro?
Keeping our website links on Wiki's main JFK page
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
http://propagandapedia.com