Myra Bronstein
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Posts posted by Myra Bronstein
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Douglas,
JFK impregnated Marilyn Monroe too, and then he and Bobby had her taken care off ( by Giancana's men) because she (said she) wanted to keep the child, and was going to give a press conference on August 5, 1962, the day after her murder.
Jack Worthington is lucky he had a tacit mom. Tell that to Jack ! And that I support him 100%!
It's these kind of scandals that make the Kennedy family still support the Warren Report today.
Wim
Now that Wim has glommed onto the Jack Worthington story I consider it officially discredited.
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Buddy Walthers was intimately involved in the events of 11/22/63, the following document deals not only with the activities mentioned in the document title, but also regarding the Tippit murder, but perhaps more interestingly his account of the JFK suspect in the balcony of the Texas Theater.
The document is fairly large, and should add an important component to this thread......
ALLEGATIONS IN BOOK "THE RED ROSES OF DALLAS," BY NERIN E. GUN, TO THE EFFECT “BUDDY” WALTHERS OF DALLAS COUNTY SHERRIFS OFFICE HAD STATED ONE SHOT IN THE ASSASSINATION FIRED FROM RAILWAY OVERPASS AND THAT FOURTH BULLET FOUND BY HIM AND SECRET SERVICE AGENT
IN GRASS NEAR BRIDGE
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1
Below are some selected excerpts:
“.......At about this time word was passed through the crowd that the President had been shot, as well as Governor Connally. The only building that was likely to have a shot fired from in this area was the Texas School Book Depository Building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston Streets, which, by this time was fast becoming surrounded by police officers. Upon returning to the front of this building I was met by Allen Sweatt, Chief Criminal Deputy of the Dallas Sheriff’s office and immediately escorted 5 witnesses to the shooting, which he turned over to me and took them to Sheriff Decker’s office and placed them in the custody of Deputy Harold Elkins until they could be questioned. At this time Deputy Allen Sweatt told me that a police officer had been killed somewhere in Oak Cliff on Jefferson Street. I immediately left the office with Deputies J.C. Ramsey and Deputy Frank Vrla and ran code 3 to Oak Cliff. I recieved information by radio that there was a suspect in the Dallas Public Library located at Marsalis and Jefferson. Upon arriving at this location we were met by a number of other police officers, and we surrounded the library. It was then determined that the person inside the library was the wrong person.
Upon getting back into our automobile, we started toward 10th Street, where the police officer had been killed, in order to obtain further information and then received radio information from Deputy Bill Courson, who was also in the Oak Cliff area, that the suspect was in the balcony of the Texas Theater on West Jefferson. We arrived at this location within a few seconds and were met by many other officers
Upon proceeding to the balcony of the theater, I ordered the manager of the theater to turn on the house lights. Some unknown officer was holding a white man at the steps of the balcony. I proceeded on into the balcony. I looked over the balcony a saw a commotion in the center section........
.........Mrs. Payne gave us permission to search the house or do anything we wanted to, and she also through interpretation, gave us Mrs. Oswald’s permission to do the same. Mrs. Payne then gave us a telephone number and stated that was the telephone number of Lee Oswald, however, she advised she did not know an address where he was staying.
At this time, I called Sheriff Decker and informed him of this and he criss-crossed this telephone number and gave us an address of 1026 N. Beckley. He advised that he would dispatch other officers to cover this address.......
Regarding interesting items found
........Also found was a set of metal file cabinets with the names and activities of Cuban sympathizers......
.........Concerning the claim made by GUN in his book “The Red Roses of Dallas,” that WALTHERS stated that the shots, or at least one of the shots, fired in the assassination of President Kennedy were fired from the railroad overpass in front of the President’s motorcade, WALTHERS stated he never made any such statement.”
And Walthers' death is one of the more suspicious ones in the aftermath of the assassination:
"Another important death was Eddy Raymond (Buddy) Walthers. He joined the Dallas Police Department in December, 1955. He was promoted through the ranks, but a colleague, Roger Craig, claimed that Walthers success was a result of the close relationship he enjoyed with Bill Decker, the sheriff of Dallas. Craig later wrote: "Walthers... had absolutely no ability as a law enforcement officer. However, he was fast climbing the ladder of success by lying to Decker and squealing on his fellow officers."
Walthers was on duty in Dealey Plaza on 22nd November, 1963, and was the first police officer to question James T. Tague, who was cut by a flying object during the assassination. In Rush to Judgment, Mark Lane claims that "Walthers spoke with Tague and, examining the ground nearby for bullets, found a mark on the curb. Teague said, 'There was a mark quite obviously that was a bullet, and it was very fresh'. The piece of curb itself, exposed to the elements for three-quarters of a year, was at last taken away to the FBI laboratory."
Soon after Walthers interviewed Tague he was seen by witnesses with two men. A sequence of photos show one of the men picking something up out of the grass and then putting it in his pocket. Some researchers claim that these men were FBI or CIA agents. Walthers initially claimed a bullet was found. However, he later changed his mind and said it was actually a piece of JFK's head. Some researchers have suggested that it was a bullet that could not be linked to Lee Harvey Oswald that was being placed in the agent's pocket.
According to Michael Benson (Who's Who in the JFK Assassination) when Jack Ruby was arrested for killing Lee Harvey Oswald, his possessions were searched and among them was Walther's signed permanent pass to the Carousel Club.
In his book, When They Kill A President, Roger Craig claims that: "Buddy had a powerful hold on Decker. I base this on the fact that Buddy's popularity with Decker greatly increased after the assassination."
Attempts were made by Jim Garrison to persuade Walthers to testify at the Clay Shaw trial. In June, 1968, Walthers reported a bombing outside his home in Oak Cliff. It has been suggested that this was an attempt to warn him off talking to investigators such as Garrison about what he knew about the assassination of John JFK. The Shaw trial was due to take place in February, 1969.
On 10th January, 1969, Bill Decker sent Buddy Walthers and Alvin Maddox to a motel to question Walter Cherry, an escaped convict and a man suspected of a double murder. When the two detectives entered the room Buddy Walthers was shot dead by Cherry.
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Myra,If it has been truly established that Ruby knew a different Tippit I'd be very interested. The Tippit question is a big and nebulous one, so any crumb of info is significant.
It was G.M. Tippit that Jack Ruby knew. His nickname was, and is, "Tip". He got to know Jack in Jack's Silver Spur days, and genuinely liked him.
Steve Thomas
Thanks very much Steve.
Do you have a reference you could point me to so I can read about it in a little more detail?
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Is it possible to evaluate the Tippit murder without speculating? I don't know.
I don't know, either. There was a lot of conflicting eyewitness evidence,...
And a lot of the "conflicting eyewitness evidence" was from the same eyewitnesses changing their accounts.
In my mind, the fact of eyewitnesses changing their accounts increases the likelihood that they were pressured/threatened to do so, which increases the likelihood that the Tippit murder was related to the conspiracy to murder President Kennedy.
For example:
On January 24, 1964 Warren Reynolds, who saw the gunman running from the scene of Tippit's murder is shot in the head 2
days after telling the FBI the fleeing man was not Oswald. Since he is not robbed there is no obvious motive. Darrell Garner
is arrested for shooting Reynolds but Betty Mooney MacDonald, who worked for Ruby gives Garner an alibi. Reynolds recovers & is out of the hospital 3 weeks when, in late February, an attempt is allegedly made to kidnap his 10 year old daughter. He & his family receive phone threats. Reynolds, living in constant fear, now testifies to the WC that Oswald was the man he saw fleeing Tippit's shooting.
http://www.jfk-assassination.de/articles/deaths.php
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/the_critics/r...ns_Russell.html
The Tippit murder is hard to evaluate without speculating, by design.
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I think it has been established that Ruby knew a different Tippit.
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BK
I'm not convinced that has been established Bill.
For example, quoting from post #126 in this thread:
"QUOTE(James Richards @ Aug 29 2006, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In an interview with Chicago attorney Elmer Gertz (who was part of the legal team which won the reversal of the death sentence given to Ruby in 1964), Bernard Gavzer wrote that when Ruby was asked about knowing Tippit, he said, "First of all, there were three Tippits in the police department. The one who was shot I never knew, never heard of. One of the other Tippits I knew."
FWIW.
James
On December 5, 1963, during a telephone interview, Ruby's sister Eva Grant told the New York Herald Tribune that: "Jack knew [Officer Tippit] and I knew him.... Jack called him "buddy." [i've read a single reference, though I cannot currently recall where, that among Tippit's nicknames was "Buddy," giving the Eva Grant quote a slightly different connotation than was inferred by the writer.]
On the same date, Eva Grant told the Boston Globe that: "Jack knew J.D. Tippit - I knew him too. He used to come into both the Vegas Club and the Carousel Club many times. He was a fine man."
Needless to say, Eva Grant's appearance before the Warren Commission saw her saying something else, in order that the Commission could conclude there was no evidence Tippit and Ruby knew each other. To wit:
"Speculation.--Ruby's sister, Mrs. Eva Grant, said that Ruby and Tippit were "like two brothers."
Commission finding.--Mrs. Grant has denied ever making this statement or any statement like it, saying it was untrue and without foundation. Ruby was acquainted with another Dallas policeman named Tippit, but this was G. M. Tippit of the special services bureau of the department, not the Tippit who was killed."
How did Eva Grant recant what she'd told several reporters some months earlier? By confusing the issue by naming all the DPD cops who had a similar name:
Mr. Burleson: Do you know whether or not Jack knew Officer J. D. Tippit?
Mrs. Grant: He said he knew a Tippit but it's like me there was a Tipton, a Tippit, and a Tipin (spelling) p-i-n, and a Tipton, and as far as I was concerned, even when Payton was talking to me, they were all the same man, until much later I found out there are three Tippits, there is a Tipton and a Tipin.
This non-denial response served to confuse more than explain. Unfortunately for Mrs. Grant's credibility, others recalled only too well precisely the same information she's earlier shared with news reporters, only to deny it to the Commission.
For example, here's what the FBI learned from Stella Coffman, Ruby's head waitress from 1948 to 1953 at the Silver Spur: "Officer Tippit had patrolled the area of the Silver Spur, which Jack used to own. He made numerous visits to the club and was a close friend of Jack's."
Here's what Larry Crafard, Ruby's Carousel Club gofer told the Commission about Ruby's response upon learning of Tippit's death: "Ruby said he knew Tippit, and Ruby referred to him by his first name, or a nickname, neither of which I can remember now. He said he knew him quite well. He was definitely referring to J.D. Tippit, the Dallas Police Officer who was shot on the day of the assassination."
Andrew Armstrong, the Carousel Club assistant manager and general factotum, was also present when Ruby learned of Tippit's death, and corroborated Crafard's account:
Mr. Hubert: Did you know Officer Tippit, the man that was shot by Oswald?
Mr. Armstrong: No, sir.
Mr. Hubert: Do you know whether Jack Ruby knew him?
Mr. Armstrong: He said that he knew Officer Tippit, but from what I gather later on--Mrs. Grant told me it was a different Officer Tippit that he knew. In other words, there was two officers that had the name of Tippit, from what I gather, and Jack said when the news was coming over the radio about the policeman being shot, that it was Officer Tippit; Jack jumped straight up and said, "I know him--I know him." Just like that.
From the foregoing, it seems clear that Ruby knew Tippit reasonably well. His sister told reporters that this was so. Stella Coffman, who'd worked for Ruby a decade earlier at the Silver Spur recalled seeing Tippit there and called him Ruby's "close friend." Ruby's contemporary employees said it was true by Ruby's own spontaneous admission [with Crafard accommodatingly specifying that it was "J.D." and no other Tippit]. Eva Grant's subsequent attempt to persuade Armstrong otherwise, and to obfuscate before the Commission, was a poor attempt to lock the barn door well after the horses had already bolted."
So it seems possible, to me at least, that the claim that Ruby knew a different officer with a similar name was spin/damage control/BS...
If it has been truly established that Ruby knew a different Tippit I'd be very interested. The Tippit question is a big and nebulous one, so any crumb of info is significant.
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Myra,
The DNA test has been done with hair from a barber. The barber CLAIMED it was JFK's hair.
What a test! Says much about Vanity Fair!
I will be convinced that this man is a con when DNA testing with VERIFIED Kennedy DNA has been done.
Wim
Ah, I was unclear on that rather significant detail.
Thanks Wim.
I was also wondering why no percentage was attached to the "non-paternity" quasi-verdict.
Don't they normally assign percentages in DNA matches/misses?
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http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...bb.30a7bcb.html
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In the mid-1950s, Ms. McNabb went to work for Mr. Wade when she was 22, and she remained for a decade. She worked as receptionist and a secretary, watching people stream and out of Mr. Wade's office.
One frequent visitor: Jack Ruby, who fatally shot Lee Harvey Oswald as he was being transported to jail after the assassination. Mr. Ruby owned the Carousel, a downtown strip club.
"Ruby was one of the guys who just hung out," Ms. McNabb said. "Nobody paid any attention to him. He came into our office because of hot checks. He tried to give passes to everybody in the office. Nobody went, or at least I didn't."
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Mr. Wade personally tried the 1964 murder case against Mr. Ruby. The jury took less than two hours to find Mr. Ruby guilty and sentence him to death.
Profiles on Mr. Wade always mention that he never lost a case he personally prosecuted. His office won convictions in more than 90 percent of the cases it tried.
Since he retired, though, the convictions of more than a dozen men have been overturned because of DNA testing. Many of the faulty convictions occurred during Mr. Wade's tenure.
Ms. McNabb doesn't think the exonerations taint his legacy.
When Mr. Wade retired in 1986, tributes flowed in from around the country. President Reagan sent a congratulatory letter. U.S. Attorney General Ed Meese spoke to 1,300 people at a tribute dinner, calling Mr. Wade "the dean of American prosecutors."
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Local mobster hangs out at DA's office. Interesting much?
Related link, on the "newly discovered" Dallas JFK documents here:
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What about the DNA test? Will it be done?
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Wim,
You might have missed this passage in post #9:
"The DNA testing the magazine commissioned failed to establish a match.
“This data is supporting non-paternity,” an official of the lab that oversaw the tests is quoted as saying."
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I don't think it is a question of whether J.D. Tippit was part of a conspiracy as much as whether his murder was connected to the assassination of JFK.
If so, further investigation of the Tippit murder would lead to a further resolution of the assassination.
BK
Well there is some reason why Tippie was one of the few cops, if not the only cop, not dispatched to Dealey Plaza that day.
That fact alone makes it seem like he was being set up.
I also find it interesting that Ruby is quoted as having jumped up and said "I know him! I know him!" after hearing about Tippit's death on the radio. It implies to me that Tippit wasn't in on the plot, though I realize it's not exactly rock solid evidence.
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Bolden's book is now showing up on Amazon for pre-order.
Presumably he'll do a publicity tour... Of course he wont be as welcome on the circuit as the likes of Bugliosi. Maybe he'll pop up on Alex Jones.
Anyway, I hope people will report on his book when they read it.
I have ordered the book. A friend of mine has developed a good relationship with him. I will ask him to join the forum to discuss the book.
That would be a tremendous coup for the Forum, John. I have great admiration for Abraham Bolden and the way he spoke up and then had to endure great injustice for his trouble.
My first question would be in relation to the Chicago 'teletype warning' affair and whether he can reveal which particular individuals warned him to keep his mouth shut. That would be interesting.
Yes.
I'd also be curious to get his opinion on whether or not the level of drunken debauchery in Dallas was "normal" for that mob or suspiciously greater than usual. I realize he wasn't in Dallas then, but I'd still like his insights.
And I'd LOVE to find out if he knew any of the key agents, and if so get his impressions of them. You know, luminaries like:
Emery Roberts, Bill Greer, Floyd Boring...
http://www.jfklink.com/articles/EmoryRoberts.html
And Henry Rybka...
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Bolden's book is now showing up on Amazon for pre-order.
Presumably he'll do a publicity tour... Of course he wont be as welcome on the circuit as the likes of Bugliosi. Maybe he'll pop up on Alex Jones.
Anyway, I hope people will report on his book when they read it.
I have ordered the book. A friend of mine has developed a good relationship with him. I will ask him to join the forum to discuss the book.
Thanks John.
That's fantastic.
As far as I know he's the first SS agent to blow the whistle on their negligence/at best or complicity/at worst.
Is anyone else aware of another SS agent from the JFK era who spoke out?
(Not counting Vince's great book since he's not SS.)
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The stand-out thing for me is that the report was vague about exactly who and exactly where. The two areas which are specific were (1) that is a Secret Service agent and (2) that the agent had been killed. Those two pieces of info were all that was needed to bring in the FBI. Making the other details vague would help keep the rumor alive.
This hypothesis makes so much sense Greg.
And if it's true, then it seems like Hoover might have been in on the plot (accessory) rather than just in on the cover-up (accessory after the fact), what with the rationale for FBI takeover being premeditated, presumably at the highest levels of the "Seat of Government."
(Incidentally, I find it beyond bizarre that a dead SS agent is a federal employee, justifying FBI intervention, but a president isn't.)
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LHO is said to have followed intelligence/espionage tradecraft by doubling back over his intended route three times,
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Thanks BK.
That tradecraft, and LHO's possible adherence to it, is new to me.
Always good to have one more little piece of the puzzle.
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Check Harvey and Lee.
Jack
I'm trying Jack. It's not an easy read.
But most relevant material isn't.
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When I first met the late Larry Harris at one of the early ASK conferences in Dallas, he gave me this timeline, which he later elaborated on. - BK
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12:35 pm – Oswald leaves the Book Depository, walks two blocks east, gets on a bus going back towards Dealey Plaza. The bus gets stuck in traffic, Oswald gets off bus (taking a transfer ticket). He walks to the Greyhound bus station, flags down a cab, but offers it to a little old lady who declines. He takes the cab to either 500 or 700 block of North Beckley, 3 to 5 blocks past his rooming house, and walks back.
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I'm very confused. Did Oswald walk away from the TSBD, or ride away in the Nash Rambler, or is that unresolved?
Is Roger Craig the only one who claims that Oswald rode off in the Rambler, or is there other evidence as well?
http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_i...sue/rcraig.html
http://davesjfk.com/rambler.html
"Author and researcher Penn Jones Jr. briefly reviewed the episode in his 1969 paperback Forgive My Grief III. On page twenty nine, Jones asserted, "Craig insisted from the day of the assassination that he saw Oswald race down the grassy area and get into a station wagon like the one owned by Mrs. Ruth Paine of Irving." Curiously this important allegation, that the Paine vehicle might have been used in the assassination, lay dormant until Jones published the story."
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home
"VANCOUVER — A Victoria-based man whose claim to Camelot has been shot down by his own family says he feels “betrayed” by them and calls an article about his story in a reputable U.S. publication “an outrageous hack job.”
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The article also reveals that DNA test results show it is unlikely that Mr. Kennedy was Mr. Worthington's father.
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“I've got a note that Lyndon wrote personally to her. She framed it actually and gave it to me. … She's not going to be able to deny that because she knows about it and she's the one who framed it.”
The note, according to Mr. Worthington, says: “I had a nice chat with your daddy today. Your friend, Lyndon.”
When asked whether he could produce the framed note, Mr. Worthington said it was “in storage somewhere.”
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The DNA testing the magazine commissioned failed to establish a match.
“This data is supporting non-paternity,” an official of the lab that oversaw the tests is quoted as saying.
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One of the more bizarre revelations in the Vanity Fair story is contained in an e-mail sent by lawyer Douglas Caddy, who approached the magazine on Mr. Worthington's behalf.
The e-mail read, in part: “If paternity were proved through DNA, [my client] would change his name to Kennedy and would also name his first-born son JFK III. He most likely would return to the U.S. and become active in politics, possibly running for public office.”
The article says Mr. Worthington later changed his tune, saying he did not want to get into politics but in fact wanted to start a foundation, the goals of which are not clear.
“Doug Caddy was not my lawyer,” Mr. Worthington said yesterday. “[Mr. Friend] didn't hear those [words] from my lips.”"
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More here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4366931&page=1
With better photos:
I don't really see that much resemblance.
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Typically interesting article from Vanity Fair. Especially the part about Worthington's attorney.
Yes, the originator of this thread.
Perhaps Douglas will give us further insights into Worthington's motives, as well as his own motives.
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Second photo:
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Thanks for the link Douglas!
They have a photo: Attached.
So what do y'all think? Is there a resemblance?
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I appreciate Bolden's focus on the fact that the SS agents were, at best, a bunch of drunken louts:
From an editorial review @ Amazon:
"Bolden told superiors that drinking was rampant within the ranks and that if a crisis occurred, the service could not act swiftly or appropriately to secure the president’s safety."
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"Already beset by racism (he once found a noose suspended over his desk), his idealism is further shattered by the drinking and carousing of other agents."
Also interesting is the evidence that they were racist drunken louts. That might (might) help answer that eternal question:
Why did the SS cooperating in murdering President Kennedy?
At least partly 'cause he was edging cautiously in the direction of civil rights?
Pure speculation here.
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Bolden's book is now showing up on Amazon for pre-order.
Presumably he'll do a publicity tour... Of course he wont be as welcome on the circuit as the likes of Bugliosi. Maybe he'll pop up on Alex Jones.
Anyway, I hope people will report on his book when they read it.
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In his book Breach of Trust, Gerald McKnight does an excellent job of chronicling the early days of the investigation.
McKnight writes:
Although the murder of a president was not a federal crime in 1963, the FBI moved in quickly to take over the investigation. Months after Kennedy's assassination, Hoover boasted to author William Manchester, who was writing a book on the assassination, that the FBI had seized the case without jurisdiction. With the FBI controlling the investigation, the only leads regarded as promising were those that pointed to Oswald as the lone assassin.And on page 19:
This startling and unanticipated turn of events [Oswald's murder] had an immediate impact in Washington. On Sunday evening there were a series of short phone conversations involving Johnson, presidential aide Bill Moyers, Hoover and Katzenbach. Moyers called Johnson at 8:50pm, and they spoke for five minutes. The president immediately rang up Hoover, and after a brief conversation LBJ called Katzenbach. The president formally assigned the FBI to take over the investigation into Kennedy's assassination. Johnson wanted Hoover to move quickly on the FBI's report. He approved Hoover's idea of the report "showing the evidence conclusively tying Oswald as the assailant of President Kennedy," according to the reporting FBI official, Inspector James R Malley, "along the lines previously discussed." LBJ also wanted a second report on the Ruby killing of Oswald. LBJ's conversation with the director lasted only two minutes.The president was in a monumental hurry. He wanted the report finished and delivered to the Justice Department by Tuesday, November 26, the day after the one LBJ had set aside as "a national day of mourning.......".....Hoover, according to Malley's record of the conversation, noted that the Tuesday deadline "would be a burden," but he told Johnson he would do his best.....On Tuesday, the day after Kennedy's funeral, Hoover fired off a memo to the General Investigative Division saying, "Wrap up investigation; seems to me we have the basic facts now." Hoover wanted the report on Oswald and Ruby "completed here at Seat of Government" by November 29, a week after the assassination, even though he knew the agency's case against Oswald was full of loose ends........Before the weekend was over FBIHQ dispatched Inspector James R Malley of General Investigative Division along with forty-nine agents and forty support personnel to Dallas. Malley was Hoover's point man on the ground to supervise the rush job on the FBI report LBJ needed to put the public mind at ease. The lone assassin explanation was the quickest and surest way to calm the waters and dissipate all the rumors and conjectures of conspiracy and possible foreign policy implications. With Oswald's death, immediate political considerations brushed aside any chance for a good-faith investigation into the true reality of the Kennedy assassination.Thanks Mike, very helpful.
Then of course the infamous Katzenbach memo was Nov 25.
It was plain spoken:
Vanity Fair article on Jack Worthington
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Hey Wim, maybe you can sue Dawn for prematurely ending the discussion.
I'll just bet that Doug Caddy will represent you.