Duane Daman

Dave .. The photos HAVE been proven to be fake by many researchers ... It's just that people like you and your nasa defending friends refuse to believe the evidence which proves this fact . David Percy is not disingenuous and neither is the astronomer Nathan Jones or the physicist Dr. Neville Jones or Jack White ... They might not always be correct with their analysis of every single phony Apollo photo , but that by no means should imply that they are being intentionally deceptive . Intentional deception is when you post different Apollo photos which don't apply to the photo evidence that is being discussed ... Or worse , even alter them in some way to try to disguise the fact that they contain glaring anomalies in them ..... Something which you have done repeatedly.

Steve ... Do you really not understand DISINFORMATION when you read it ? 'Who Mourns for Apollo ' is NOT A HOAX SITE .... It is PRO APOLLO .... but with a very clever twist ....The authors of that web site are smart enough to realize that millions of people are onto the fact that nasa faked the manned moon landings ... So what better way to distract from that fact than to put out some more confusing disinformation ? This web site is offering another solution as why nasa has been caught in so many lies and also about why their Apollo photos are so obviously fake .... Here is the quote which proves this sad fact . "The underlying reasons for NASA's deception and duplicitousness regarding what is really on other planets in our solar system -- including the 30+ year pattern of withholding crucial Lunar information from the people who paid for Apollo in the first place, and what we now know from NASA's own photography is on the Moon -- are the REAL issues here." ..................... So what they are saying here is that nasa faked the Apollo photography and gave the world moon set photos because they really did get to the moon and they really did find ancient or even present day alien civilizations there and just had to disguise that fact from the people of planet Earth .... Oh pleassseeeeee !!

"Just what would you accept as imperical evidence?" NOTHING FROM THE SOURCE OF THE LIE , which includes the phony moon set photos , the contrived ALSJ, the astronot's statements which completely CONTRADICT each other , and ham operators who have NEVER come forward with any evidence that they listened in on the Apollo transmissions , except for that disinformation nonsense about the Apollo fly boys seeing several alien crafts on a ridge on the moon . Many people have provided circumstantial evidence that Apollo was a hoax and also hard evidence , which would be the faked photos ... If nasa really landed men on the moon and the photos didn't come out , why not just admit to that fact ? ... Instead they dug their own grave by pretending that the Apollo moon set photos were really taken on the moon .... and if they lied about where the photos were taken , then they most likely lied about the rest of it .

Wrong again dummy .... Check out my admitting to being wrong about the Apollo 17 visor reflections being footlights ... I conceded the point after debating it extensively on two different forums . Look up the word CONCEDED .... Something which neither you or anyone else who defends nasa's lies about landing on the moon has ever done .... Even when the proof that the Apollo photos are crude studio fakes is staring you right in your face , you all still lie about them and pretend that they are perfectly normal looking . So if you're going to "ROTFLMAO" , maybe you should try reading your own posts , cuz they really are pretty funny ... Especially when you can't even manage to get your facts straight .

You know what the saddest thing is about you Dave ? .... You can NEVER admit when you are wrong about something ... and you can never admit when some of the Apollo photos have been proven to be fake ... I don't care how many tracks are in your purple colored photos or how many of those tracks you outlined either ... because that is NOT THE POINT ! The point is ... you posted DIFFERENT PHOTOS to try to prove me wrong .... The three photos I posted here , two from Apollo 15 and one from Apollo 17 , clearly show in HIGH RESOLUTION that there are NO TIRE TRACKS BEHIND OR UNDERNEATH THE BUGGY .... and that is all the proof I need to show . It IS a very dishonest and also a very sneaky thing to post photos which are NOT RELEVANT to the photos I posted here , which are so obviously fake . And the same goes for streching and bending that weird looking shadow in the first photo I posted here , which is so obviously fake that the shadow doesn't even match the astronot .... Plus , the buggy tire tracks go right through the middle of that silly looking hole that nasa tried to pass off as being a crater . I already addressed your other photo and so did Jack .... He said that the lunar day was too long to have the shadow change from one photo to the next so quickly.... and I said that someone just moved the spotlight on the moon set ... And so far, no one has shown any proof that the sun would have caused those subtle changes to the mountain backdrop from one photo to the next on the moon ... Steve Ulman played some silly game by asking Jack and me about the terminator line on the moon , but so far he hasn't provided any proof that the Apollo photos were really taken on the moon .... and neither have you, or anyone else for that matter .

Unbelievable .... We have been through this one before just recently .... Here are the first two paragraphs of the link you are complaining about not being a pro Apollo site .... "In our first two pieces in this series “Who Mourns for Apollo,” (Part I and Part II) we dealt with a series of silly and irresponsible assertions by the “Moon Hoax Advocates” who say that we never went to the Moon. One of the centerpiece claims is that the Apollo astronauts never could have passed through the Van Allen radiation Belts on their way to the Moon and survived. Although we addressed this issue briefly in our first article, since they use this argument as a ‘big-gun’ in attacking the validity and credibility of Apollo, we decided a more complete deconstruction of the issue was appropriate. Included in their disinformation campaign are seemingly logical but blatantly mistaken prevarications about the “fatal” dangers the astronauts faced from various types of radiation exposure. According to them, cosmic rays going through the spacecraft’s thin skin, and “massive” doses of solar radiation would have resulted in the astronauts being transformed into hairless crispy critters." ......................................................... I understand that you are not the sharpest knife in the rack on this forum , but if those statements are not pro Apollo and ANTI HOAX , then I don't know what would be .

Evan ... I understand what you are saying about the need to provide empiricle evidence when making the claim that the Apollo missions were faked ... But if you expect me or anyone else to provide the hard proof that the LM couldn't fly , land or relaunch from the moon , then I doubt that could be done . But evidence can be provided that the LM could never be properly tested because to really test it would mean flying it , landing it , and relaunching it from the moon BEFORE the first manned mission to the moon ... and of course that could not be done ... So in essence, that means that if the Apollo 11 mission was a real event, then it would have to qualify as a test ... and I find it extremely difficult to believe that the American government , via nasa , would have allowed the high possibility of having American astronauts crash and then die on the lunar surface , or burn up in the Van Allen radiation belts with the whole world watching it on TV . Not only would this have been someting horrible to witness ... but the Americans would have completely lost , not only the space race, but possibly the cold war also if this had happened .... and this is something that the American military/industrial complex would NEVER have allowed to occur ... Remember the phrase " FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION " ? Well , they weren't kidding when they said that , and therefore they would have never sent men into deep space to land on the moon unless they knew for certain it could be accomplished . The extraordinary claim of landing manned missions on the moon with 1969 technology has NEVER been proven ... and the fact that telemetry tapes and blueprints are missing and destroyed does not help nasa's case at all ... and only means that anyone who doubts the authencity of the Apollo missions will not be able to empirically prove that those missions never took place . The photos , on the other hand , have been proven to be fake ... Even though there are those who still refuse to see this or admit to it . Think of this as if it were a court trial .... There are different types of evidence which are used to find people guilty of certain crimes ... Eye witness ( the most unreliable ) ... hard evidence ( which is not always available ) and then CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE ( which is usually what proves that a crime been committed ) So it is not necessarily the HARD EMPIRICAL evidence which is needed to prove that nasa never landed men on the moon , but rather the CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence which proves they never went there . And when it comes to circumstantial evidence , there is quite an abundance of it which proves that Apollo was a hoax .

Steve ... With all due respect I believe that is has been proven on every level that Apollo was a hoax ... The fact that nasa can not provide any empiricle evidence of their extraordinary claims of landing six manned missions on the moon , not only says it all but should be proof enough that it never happened .... That and the fact that the lunar surface photography showing astronauts is so obviously faked . I think you have gotten sidetracked by the games the nasa defenders play in their defense of the bogus Apollo moon landings .... I will have to admit that they are very good at what they do ... and in feeling that it is their civic duty to defend nasa's phony Apollo Program , they will do whatever is necessary , including a program of ridicule and ad homs directed at the conspiracy researchers , to defend their 'noble' cause . But at least we do agree on one thing ... We all are entitled to our own opinions about everything .... and so far, we still have the right to exercise our freedom of speech about these opinions .

I'm sure you won't mind me using the very next photo to analyse this one - it shows more of the tyre tracks. I've already looked at http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/f.../?AS15-88-11902 Here are links to crops of this image with the levels and contrast greatly enhanced. And in high resolution (this one also shows how much dust the astronauts kicked up when walking about, and how easily it could obscure tyre tracks):- http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.greer70...lo/tracks_2.jpg And so you know where the tracks are:- Posting inferior purple images and then photoshopping tires tracks and drawing imaginary lines of them on these inferior purple photos , does nothing to help your case for nasa ... Neither does posting different photos from the Apollo 15 photo shoot . But this is exactly what I expected you to do .. and in doing this once again , you have proven how completely dishonset you really are . On the other hand , I posted HIGH RESOLUTION PHOTOS FROM THE APOLLO IMAGE GALLERY ... and were'nt you always the one who claimed that the only photos worth studying and posting to prove your point , are the HIGH RESOLUTION PHOTOS right from the original source ? This is just as sneaky as you photoshopping and then bending the shadow in the first photo I posted here . What a shame you feel the need to stoop to this dishonest level to defend nasa's lies about taking these ridiculous looking photographs on the moon . Look at the high resolution photos I posted here Dave ... There are NO TIRE TRACKS BEHIND OR UNDERNEATH THE LUNAR BUGGY .... And the reason there are no tracks is because the photos were FAKED ON MOON SETS ! You really need to open your mind and your eyes to the truth about this and stop playing games for a cause which was nothing but a hoax and a pack of lies .

"Your continue you to be the most charming member of this forum." Sorry but you're even wrong about that too , as I do believe that title would have to go to you and lamson . Regardless of Nathan Jones' scientific credentials , the fact still remains that no one can refute his claims about Apollo being a hoax ... The only one here who at least tried to do that is Evan , but unfortunately quoting from the ALSJ is not a rebuttal of any kind .... It is only quoting from the source of the misinformation .... One would need outside corroboration of nasa's technical claims of landing six manned missions on the moon ... but so far I haven't been able to find that anywhere ... and from the looks of it , neither have any of you . I agree with all of Jones' claims and opinions about Apollo and that is why I posted his FAQ article here .... So in what way would you like me to "defend" his statements ? At least Evan is honest about this statement also ... "That image IS of the simulator" .... Yes , it is... Just like the ENTIRE APOLLO PROGRAM WAS SIMULATED .... It was a combination of fact and fiction ... Truth and lies .... Some real photos ( LEO and unmanned missions ) and a whole lot of faked ones ( the one's showing astronots on the moon ) .... It was misinformation and disinformation all rolled up in one massive conspiracy to fool the world into believing that manned space travel through and past the Van Allen Radiation belts and then landing on the radioactive moon , is possible ... It was also done so it would appear that the Americans beat the evil Russians to the moon , helping to put and end to the cold war .

Well , so much for "polite" questions ... or should I say polite answers ? Thanks for not being rude like me . No comment about the phony moon set moon buggy photos missing the faked moon buggy tire tracks , I see ....

I doubt you would be able to "suss out" much of anything under any circumstances , humor or not . "How do we know that Nathan Jones the scientist is the person making these claims?" .. Perhaps because his name is on the article and it orginated from an astronomy site ? ... and I thought that conspiracy theorists were the one's who suppossed to be paranoid . I don't think who wrote the article is really the point though ... but rather that his evidence has not been refuted ... Not even by the bad boy bullies from Bad Astronomy .

And here we have a photo of the final resting place of the lunar buggy on the Apollo 17 photo shoot .... Yet there are no tire tracks behind this buggy or in between the front and rear tires either .. Yet once again bootprints can clearly be seen in the soft 'lunar' soil . AS17-143-21933

And in this Apollo 15 photo we see the lunar buggy at it's alleged final resting place , yet there are still no tire tracks behind the buggy or in between the front and rear tires ... Yet the bootprints are once again clearly seen in the soft 'lunar' soil . AS15-88-11901

Speaking of Apollo 15 photos , this one could use some explaining .... There are no tire tracks showing behind the buggy or even in between the front and rear buggy tires ... Yet we see bootprints in the very soft 'lunar' soil . AS15-85-11471

I agree with you that the planets probably are billions of years old and that the Bible can not and never could be taken literally . As for the rest of your post , I only know that science and scientists are not always correct ... but here's a thought for you .... If no one had even seen moon rocks before the alleged unmanned Russian and alleged American manned missions to the moon , then how do we know they were really picked up on the moon and not somewhere on Earth like the Antarctic ? I have heard all of the arguments about the moon rocks not showing any signs of entering the Earth's atmosphere , yet the only rocks ( that amount to no more than tiny slivers and sand ) , which are allowed to be studied by scientists , have all shown Earthly contamination . ( See Moon Rocks: NASA's Dirty LIttle Secrets ) .. Plus recently , moon rocks have been recovered in Antarctica which are EXACT match for the Apollo rocks .... nasa has never been able to properly explain why rocket scientist Werner Von Braun made the expedition to the Antarctic two years before the Apollo 11 launch either . The Apollo astronots allegedly gathered up 840 lbs. of rocks off of the lunar surface , yet we have no photographic evidence of this high number of rock collection ... Plus the public has only been privy to a handful of these alleged Apollo moon rocks which are displayed under glass in nasa museums and they are usually no bigger than the size of sugar cubes . I have not seen one photograph of an Apollo astronot holding a moon rock in any of the Apollo photos that can be verified or identified as being any of the small moon rocks which nasa now has in it's possession ...The bulk of the rocks are allegedly under lock and key in nasa facilities , and no one outside of nasa has ever seen them . So once again all we have is nasa's word for how many rocks they really have ... if these rocks are contaminated or not , and if they were really picked up on the moon by manned missions .

Good question .... Do you know the answer ?

Ron ... I have no idea if he is a creationist and I don't know much about creationism, but I think the 6000 years only applies to human life on planet Earth , not the age of the moon .... Scientists have proven that carbon dating has been wrong in many cases ... Off by thousands of years sometimes .. So why can't radiometric dating possilby be wrong also ? Scientists think they know everything until proven wrong about something and then they have to start all over again with new hypotheses ... Nothing is written in stone and scientist's are only human and as we all know , humans can and do make mistakes .

Steve .... Opinion noted and agreed with .....Until I can provide proof of my claims , you would have no reason to believe me .... And except for these two un-named Russians, one high up in the Russian space program and the other a cosmonaut , no other Russians that I know of has blown the whistle on nasa faking the Apollo missions . If I had known I would have needed these men's names and credentuals for a debate one day , I would have paid more attention to who they are , exactly what they said , and what documentary I saw them in . I will see if I can get their names for you and also their exact comments .... Not that it really matters ... It seems like you have already made up your mind and decided to go along with the majority and just take nasa's word for it that they sent manned missions to the moon , without testing any animals first , 240,000 miles out into the intense radiation dangers of deep space , and then landed and relaunched 12 humans on and off of the radioactive lunar surface , 38 years ago , with completely untested conventional technology and improper radiation shielding ..( To many commas ?? ) Well, I guess we are all entitled to our own opinions ... right ?

"A solar day on the moon is approximately THIRTY EARTH DAYS LONG so shadow movement would be almost imperceptable between two photo exposures." ....

Well that was just the same old lame type of 'rebuttals' you all always post ..... First you attack the messenger ...AGAIN ... and then you are all to dumb to realize that it was a joke about the Jones', Nathan and Neville, being brothers ... Then one of you attacks his religious beliefs ... AGAIN . Then it gets even worse, as one of you keep repeating this statement .." No evidence offered." And then the rest of this lamness is copied right from Bad Astronomy ... AGAIN . Evan posted ... "Completely wrong. If you have a look at this image. " ... Didn't you mean .. have a look at this FAKED STUDIO IMAGE ? ..... You offer a studio photograph of a LM hanging by a cable wire , as proof that the engine was turned off ??? ...TOO FUNNY ! Oh and Evan , where is the proof that Neil is standing in the LM that landed on the moon and not in a LM simulator ? ... You didn't just take nasa's word for that , did you ? So from what I just read , not one of can really rebutt this evidence , just as I expected .

Since some of you have done such a fine job of pretending to debunk Dr. Neville Jones claims of the Apollo photography being forged , I thought some of you really smart fellows might want to try to tackle his brother Nathan. Funny how everyone just ignored this article when I first posted it . Oh and instead of the typical distraction tactics of attacking the messenger ( Dr. Nathan Jones and me ) , how about trying to address the message for a change .... I am quite sure that Dr. Jones is a real person and that his credentuals are as he claims ... but even if we can't track down the good Doctor on the google search engines , let's just try to focus on his evidence of proving that Apollo was nothing but a 30 billion dollar fraud .

"Is it possible for you to poliitely address the points/questions that Craig and I put to you? " I'm sorry but I didn't see any "polite" questions ... If I had I would have answered them already . Please stop the off topic nonsense ... It's quite obvious why you do it and it is very immature and annoying .

Evan ... Nice post ... but unfortunately it was nothing new .. Just the same old tired 'rebuttals ' that anyone can find on clavius . I do appreciate your honesty with this statement though .. "When the matter of Apollo images have been raised on photographic forums (as distinct from science or debunking forums), the opinions are polarised in support of the images being true representations of actual events." Dave ... It's apparently not just a matter of perspective but rather PERCEPTION . If you can't see that the Apollo photos are studio fakes , then you can't ... and obviously no amount of proof from the professionals , Dr. Jones , David Percy or Jack White is ever going to change your mind .

You're right lamson there is no middle ground ..... and here's the reason why . No matter how many games you play here you won't change the FACT that Apollo was HOAX ! Yes, it's my belief , my opinion and it's is also a FACT . And believe it or not , this has already been proven to those who aren't as closed minded and as blind as you are.