Joseph Backes
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Thank you Joe, for your information, greatly appreciated....b
You're welcome. And I think Cinque owes me some money.
Joe
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David,
CE 2003 in Volume 24 has a lot of the police affidavits of TSBD employees.
CE 1381 in Volume 22 has the FBI statements.
Billy Lovelady's affidavit is on page 36 of CE 2003 which is on page 214 of Volume 24.
Buell Wesley Frazier's affidavit in on page 25 of CE 2003 which is on page 209 of Volume 24.
William Shelley's affidavit is on page 59 of CE 2003 which is on page 226 of Volume 24.
Buell Wesley Frazier's FBI statement is on p. 32 of CE 1381 which is p. 647 in Volume 22.
Lovelady's is on p. 62 of CE1381 which is on p. 662 in Volume 22.
William Shelley's is on 84 of CE 1381 which is on p. 673 in Volume 22.
Joe
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David,
Page 63 of CE 1381, which is on page 662 of Warren Commission Volume 22, is a two page statement from Billy Nolan Lovelady. It clearly states on the second page that “at about 1:45 p.m. I and several other employees accompanied a police officer to City Hall for questioning.” So, yes, I would say Lovelady was in the Dallas Police Department prior to 2:00 p.m.
Joe
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Hello folks,
I found a source for viewing the short film of Lee Harvey Oswald being brought to City Hall, which is really the same thing as Dallas Police HQ. If you have this DVD called "The Story Behind the Story: JFK, Dallas, November 22, 1963, 40th Anniversary Collector's Edition," and go to side two, one of the DVDs has no artwork on either side, that's the DVD you want, go to special features and there is a program produced by WFAA-TV, an ABC network affiliated station, simply called "One Year Later." This show has many of the local reporters remembering that day, where they were, what they were doing, and what did they film. Available on Amazon - http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/B001GHDYFY
Bob Gooding is the TV host in the studio.
Gooding goes to a reporter, Charles Butt, he's a tall, thin man with glasses. This is about 38 minutes into this program. Charles Butt was in the basement of Dallas City Hall that day. He was there when Oswald was shot. Unfortunately, he did not have a good position to film or witness anything. Butt is behind a somewhat rounded middle island kind of office, the initial booking, or receiving area.
The film sequence we’re interested in starts after Butt says, “he was being brought in from the Texas theatre.” This is about 38 minutes and 28 seconds into this show. Then we fade to film of Oswald and his police escort coming around the initial booking area down a small short hallway and onto the elevator. There is a man with some type of maintance uniform on already in the elevator and he stays in the corner of the elevator as Oswald and company get in. Oswald is escorted by five men, one of whom is a Dallas cop, in uniform, with a white cap on his head.
At 38:39 there is an edit, or fade out, because the camera man filming this did not get in the elevator with Oswald.
Then at 38:40 there is another camera man that is on the third floor and captures them getting out. We see the hallway they are going to. There is an office door open on both sides with a woman standing guard next to each open door. And there are three men further down the hallway. At 38:46 the door to office 317, the Homicide and Robbery Bureau headed by Captain Fritz is open by a man with a suit on with a thin tie and Oswald and company go in. There are already at least 4 men in this office area already. One was near the door as Oswald and company came in. We follow them going in and kind of rounding the corner going somewhat parallel but now in the opposite direction of the hallway they just came from. Then there is an edit or fade out. Now at about 38:49 the camera has been moved a bit so that we see Oswald and company almost in a straight column walking away from the cameraman’s position. The position of some of the men as they walk away from the camera man's viewpoint, the 3rd, 4th, and 5th man block the camera’s view of the cop with the white cap and Oswald temporarily as this cop and Oswald move a little to the left of your screen because of where Billy Nolan Lovelady is sitting. In fact, the last man in this column temporarily blocks the camera’s view of everyone except the man directly in front of him at 38:51. Then two men move a little bit to the right, the cop with the white cap and Oswald. The cop stops and holds onto Oswald for a second or two. There is a little delay before they put Oswald into an interior office room and close the door. This door does not have a glass plane, it's solid, wood or metal.
So, Cinque is EDIT to think that Lovelady is not really there, not really siting in a chair with its back facing the desk, not really facing this group of men bringing Oswald in. Nor is there a "take two," film where they do all of this all over again but now with someone else cast as Lovelady. It's ridiculous nonsense from a person who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
I think it should be emphasized that the people brought in from Dealy Plaza as witnesses who are awaiting attention from the police or someone who will take their statements and type those up haven't got a clue about a police officer being shot in Oak Cliff, or a clue as to that suspects name, or that that suspect might be the killer of JFK. They were not listening to a radio or watching TV. I don't think they know anything about Oswald yet.
By the way, there is indeed a real clock atop a grey metal clothes tree. It’s an odd artifact in the room. I’ve never seen anything like it before. So, it is not a reflection of a clock from the hallway or from another room across the hallway.
A short time later we see a film sequence of Oswald now wearing a dark sweater coming out of the elevator, handcuffed with two Dallas police men on each side, one is Jim Leavelle, the other is L.C. Graves. They come out, and go around this middle island bit. When this film sequence starts there is a police officer blocking the camera view of Oswald and company coming off the elevator and you hear some people, one of them is probably Charles Butt saying “Officer, officer,” trying to get this officer out of the camera shot.
This footage shows Oswald getting shot but it’s from this vestibule area looking out towards the parking garage and where everybody else got a good view of Ruby shooting Oswald. In other words it is from behind.
After being shot Oswald is brought back into this area and apparently is deposited on the floor. There are several men who just look down at him. The middle office area obstructs the view. After Oswald is taken away Butt's camera man films the spot on the floor where Oswald lay. There is a small pool of blood on the floor.
We also see Jack Ruby hustled and shoved past them, very angrily by one guy, and onto the same elevator that Oswald and company came out of mere moments ago.
Joe Backes
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Vince,
Can you gives us more from this show? The clips are too short. I don't think Specter is really bashing Clint Hill in those 19 seconds. He's critical, yes, but not bashing. The second clip doesn't live up to its description either. Specter seems to be to be in the middle of telling a longer story and we don't get it all. He just barely tells us about one idea Humes had at one point. We need more to get the full context.
Otherwise, nicely done.
Joe
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I have the CNN story, scans from pages 126 - 127 from Phil Malenson's book, "Shadowplay," and a CNN video on this on my blog at www.justiceforkennedy.blogspot.com
Joe
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Hold on folks, I may have made an error. My apologies. I think everything is fine. I was expecting the book to have a normal text narrative, and then tabs. But, it looks like the tabs are not separate.
So, for example page 1a in Part II is the same as Tab 14a. Page 2 is the same as Tab 15. Page 2e is the same as Tab 15e. Oh boy. I'm really sorry about this.
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Hello,
I'm looking for a copy of the Honolulu Conference Briefing Book for the one held November 20th, 1963. Does anyone have this? If so please contact me. Thanks.
Joe Backes
Joe,
It is found in the JFK National Security Files 1961-1963 Country Files: Vietnam, Honolulu Meeting, Briefing Book, 11/20/63, Box 204 [Kennedy Library]
Actually, it's not. And that's the problem. I went there earlier this month, before it got cold again in the Northeast, just last Thursday and Friday. The briefing book has been separated into two parts, Part I and II. Part I has tabs 1 to 14, Part II is supposed to have Tabs 15 to 21. It doesn't. It ends with page 8k. Tabs 15 to 21 are now missing.
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Hello,
I'm looking for a copy of the Honolulu Conference Briefing Book for the one held November 20th, 1963. Does anyone have this? If so please contact me. Thanks.
Joe Backes
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This is perhaps not the most important question. But nonetheless I believe it's interesting. When JFK, Jackie, LBJ and Lady Bird et al, had that early morning breakfast, the President was given a couple of presents. One of them was a real Texas "cowboy" hat. President Kennedy raised from his chair, accepted the gift, but refused to put the hat on.
Whenever I see this I keep asking myself why JFK did that? "If you come up to the White House on Monday, I'll put it on there...". No doubt the crowd was disappointed by this. But those were the times, I guess. Today I could not see any politician anywhere to refuse a crowd pleaser like this. Quite the opposite, in fact. They're looking for opportunities like this.
Now, JFK was certainly a full fledged political animal but he was also one of the first US politicians to really understand the impact and value of media exposure.
What quick political calculation did JFK do that morning, that prevented him from putting this hat on?
[As an aside, it's a thought provoking idea to imagine JFK wearing this hat throughout the motorcade in Dallas a couple of hours later, would that by any chance have changed the course of history?]
EDIT: FORT WORTH, of course, sorry.
The answer is President Calvin Coolidge. He once famously put on a native American Indian headdress and nobody like him in it. He was ridiculed. When Will Rogers saw the photo he said, "Politics makes strange red fellows." People thought it diminished the office of the President of the United States. Ever since this incident presidents have avoided wearing odd hats and/or costumes. LBJ while Vice-President had to wear odd things as he travelled about. LBJ was likewise ridiculed, and this was another reason why LBJ hated the Kennedys.
See - http://www.c-spanvideo.org/appearance/563343969
Joe Backes
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Dallas, Nov. 22 (UPI) -- Police today seized Lee H. Oswald, identified as chairman of a "Fair Play for Cuba Committee," as the prime suspect in the assassination of President Kennedy. Police said Oswald, 24, was accused in the slaying of a Dallas policeman shortly after the shooting of the President.
Police Capt. Pat Gannaway* said the suspect was an employee in the building where a rifle was found. Gannaway said the suspect had visited Russia and was married to a Russian. This was not immediately confirmed.
David Lifton *Notes, 8/16/06: In retrospect, it now seems clear that Gannaway, ofthe DPD Intelligence Division, was an important player.
From: No Case to Answer –Ian Griggs (JFK Lancer, 2005) A Retired English Detective's Essays and Articleson the JFK Assassination (1993-2005, p 3-4)
SPECIAL SERVICES BUREAU
This was the first of the specialized departments. It operated under the command of Captain W. P. ('Pat') Gannaway who was supported by six Lieutenants, 34 regular Detectives, 14 Patrolmen who were temporarily assigned to the bureau and four female civilians (one stenographer and threeclerk-typists). The 14 'temporarily-assigned' men were what we in the UK would call Aides to CID or TDCs (TemporaryDetective Constables). More of them shortly.
Captain Gannaway (at that time known as 'Mr. Narcotics') had been in charge of the notorious 1957 undercover operation and raid that culminated in stripper Candy Barr being arrested for possession of half an ounce of marijuana. For this offense, she was sentenced to 15 years imprisonment, actually serving less than three years before being paroled.
Initially, I had some difficulty in working out what the Special Services Bureau actually did. I established that 18 officers, including Captain Gannaway and one of the female civilians, were mentioned in the Warren Commission 26 Volumes. Indeed, eight of them testified before the Commission and three of them had their names as titles of Commissoin Exhibits. Careful study of the appropriate testimony, together with other DPD documents in my possession enabled me to work out the purpose and responsibilities of the Special Services Bureau.
It was basically a covert surveillance and intelligence-gathering unit which, was well as the Criminal Intelligence Squad (CIS), included the Vice Squad and Narcotics Squad, etc. Its regular officers were plain-clothes detectives. The temporarily-assigned Patrolmen (who operated in plane clothes) were there for one of two reasons. Some were genuinely 'on trial' or undergoing training prior to being appointed full-time detectives. Others had been drafted in from the uniform branch to undertake basic covert surveillance work in areas where their faces would not be known. A similar system exists in the UK and probably other countries today.
The Warren Commission testimony of Lieutenant Jack Revill (who became Assistant Chief in 1982) is very revealing in describing the duties and responsibilities of the Special Services Bureau. He stated: "I am currently in charge of the criminal intelligence section." Later he outlined the overall task of the bureau. "Our primary responsibilityis to investigate crimes of an organized nature, subversive activities, racial matters, labor racketeering, and to do anything that the chief might desire. We work for the chief of police. I report to a captain who is in charge of the bureau – Captain Gannaway."
Lieutenat Revill later indicated that he had been assigned to an investigative panel set up to determine how Jack Ruby had gained access to the City Hall basement where he had shot Oswald. This type of enquiry was obviously also the responsibility of the Special Service Bureau.
For a very revealing account ofthe functions of the CIS, see Philip H. Melanson's article "Dallas Mosaic" published in the Third Decade, vol. 1, no 3, March 1985, pages 12-15. Among other things, Dr. Melanson mentions that " the spooky little unit was physically removed from the rest of the DPD and was headquartered in a building on the state fairgrounds." (Vol. IV HSCA, 597.) The use of the word 'spooky' may ormay not be a deliberate clue to something rather sinister.
I believe it was located very close to the Women's Building on the State Fairgrounds.
Joe Backes
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Michael,
What is the point of posting that snippet from Bill's review?
Joe, there seemed to be some confusion over names; Blaine and Behn, "Blane and Bane." (sic)
I thought maybe reading Bill Kelly's review might clear it up. I guess I was wrong.
I probably should have left it to Bill Kelly to do that.
Yes. Well, Kelly misspelled Blaine as Blane. Then I did too with Bane. It's Gerald Blaine and its page 357 of "The Kennedy Detail," where he talks about his box of
1963 SS records he has.
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....He says it in his book The Kennedy Detail.
Read it, it's has a lot of important information, especially about Jerry Behn, a major player on the AF1 tapes, and the take SS over of LBJ's house after the assassination.
BK
Thanks Bill. I do have the book. Is this SS Jerry Blaine you're talking about? I think you are. It's Blaine. He states he has kept copies of SS records that refute Abraham Bolden's story of a possible assassination attempt on JFK in early November 1963.
Blaine also states, and this is the first time this excuse has been brought up as far as I know, that the reason for the cancellation of the trip to Chicago was the death of Diem in Vietnam.
LBJ's place in Washington, D.C. called The Elms has interested me for years. A place worthy of study, especially who goes in and out, and when to see LBJ.
Joe
From Bill's review:
As related in William Manchester’s book The Death of the President, Agent Blaine claims that he was told by the head of the White House Detail,Special Agent In Charge (SAIC) Jerry Behn, that while in Tampa four days before the assassination, the president told Behn “To keep Ivy LeagueCharlatans off the bumper, back there.” (18)To Behn, this was taken as a request they didn’t officially enter into any report, but orally passed along (over the radio) to other agents,such as Blaine and Hill, which resulted in the agents being ordered off the bumper of the presidential limo for the Dallas motorcade fromLove Field to Dealey Plaza. The order given and the result being a dead president.Michael,
What is the point of posting that snippet from Bill's review?
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This is a real good find.
Was any of this stuff found? I don't think the Roselli stuff was, was it?
And why was so much of it anonymous?
The ARRB is looking worse and worse.
I obtained all this from Rex Bradford 7 years ago. And read almost all of it. I double-checked a few of them, and it looks like they're all up on the Mary Ferrell site.
So I guess this material was never really lost.
No one claimed they were lost. It is a record of them keeping track of the obviously historical records they are intentionally destroying.
And that's a fact. Many of these docs are up at Mary Ferrell, which proves the point John Newman made many years ago - that they never make one copy of any document, unless it is a very dangerous one, as the purpose of making documents is to pass the info on to others. It's just they never suspected that these records would be ever revealed to the public - and the excuse that the records requested have been destroyed is just a bogus excuse to get around having to provide them.
There are copies of the unedited AF1 radio transcripts out there, SS Agent Blane says that he has kept copies of the SS Advance reports for Miami and Chicago that they intentionally destroyed after they were requested by the ARRB, and he's kept them in a box in his closet.
If you believe the Navy completely lost the entire office records for Admiral Rufus Taylor, the Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI), then our Navy must be so incompetent that we might as well surrender.
BK
Where did SS Bane say this, and when? Do you have proof he said this?
Joe Backes
He says it in his book The Kennedy Detail.
Read it, it's has a lot of important information, especially about Jerry Behn, a major player on the AF1 tapes, and the take SS over of LBJ's house after the assassination.
BK
Thanks Bill. I do have the book. Is this SS Jerry Blaine you're talking about? I think you are. It's Blaine. He states he has kept copies of SS records that refute Abraham Bolden's story of a possible assassination attempt on JFK in early November 1963.
Blaine also states, and this is the first time this excuse has been brought up as far as I know, that the reason for the cancellation of the trip to Chicago was the death of Diem in Vietnam.
LBJ's place in Washington, D.C. called The Elms has interested me for years. A place worthy of study, especially who goes in and out, and when to see LBJ.
Joe
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Yes. It's simple. "Harvey and Lee" is 100% BS. It accepts every story of Oswald now matter what, or from who and puts one set of actions by Oswald in the Lee column and one in a Harvey column. No story is ever addressed as being A.) a lie or B.) someone who was not Oswald at all. Armstrong's knowledge of the entire case is tissue thin. He accepts things that if he was an educated man he'd reject...
....Yes, there are reports of an arrest in the balcony of the Texas theatre and reports of someone being taken out the back. But, there is no reason to believe this is a second Oswald.
Don't try to sort this case out from Armstrong's book. It can't be done.
Probably not.
It seems hard to sort this case out from any perspective. .....
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I think Jim Root has it exactly backwards, asserting that the method chosen to protect the top level assassination conspirators was to keep the planning as simple and narrow as possible, involving the least number of people on a need to know basis.
The people I know owe the American people an actual explanation of what they knew related to the JFK Assassination, the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald, and the half century long, officially supported cover up of those details, have a long record of conducting by intention, complicated and confusing "operations" using a counter-intuitive, but demonstrably effective strategy of confusion involving many individuals. This strategy has been so successful that there is no consensus to this day whether the high level government "operators" of the 1980's were or were not also culpable in the Assassination of JFK and the cover up.
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According to the CIA/Bellin letter we find that if it would have been known that Oswald had attempted to assassinate Walker then, with the other information about Oswald that was available at the time, it could have been predicted that Oswald would kill Kennedy if given the opportunity. Rather than needing to recruit an assassin all that was needed was to direct a motorcade past where Oswald was working.
FBI Agent J P Hosty's third note provided the information about where Oswald was working. This information, without Hosty's knowledge, was made available to highest levels of US Intelligence. Perhaps the most important piece in this part of my investigation is that that note has disappeared from the files of the CIA. A note has disappeared that, if available, would show exactly eho had had access to the information that it contained. I find this to be a wonderful reason that explains, very easily, why that note has disappeared.....without having to speculate on alot of other scenarios!
Mark, I am not big on the idea of a broad based conspiracy to kill the JFK. Throughout my research I have constantly looked for, and it seems have found, explanations that seem to provide for a conspiracy that invovled very few people.....but those same people would have to have been at the very top of the heap when it comes to directing intelligence assets and having access to intelligence information.
Jim Root
Jim, please devote just a couple of hours of study of this. I avoided looking at any of it beyond what I read or heard from the news media, back then, in real time, until just the other day when comments were posted on another thread here on the subject of the credibility of one "Chip Tatum".
Focus on just this one snippet of the Iran-Contra saga, a 1988 plane crash in which we were told a man named Nir was killed, a man rumored to have recorded the dialogue of a 1986 meeting with then U.S. VP George HW Bush. Nir was supposed to testify before the inquiry convened to investigate the Iran-Contra irregularities.
I was impressed with the way, right from the initial reporting, the confusion was so skillfully injected into what could have been a thoroughly and accurately reported incident, the crash in daylight and fair weather of a small rented airplane with no more than six occupants. .....
....From the time of the crash until today, there seems no agreement on key details and relationships, exactly the outcome that it would seem would be most beneficial for Mr. Bush and a number of his 1980's associates.
I am inclined to view the roles of Oswald, Ruby, and Walker in the assassination conspiracy as a similar dark hole as this example is, an investigation of incidents that, by design, can probably lead nowhere. This example may simply be a scenario lifting the veil on what can be expected of these people if they feel they are being cornered, or feel threatened to any serious degree, for that matter.:
.......
Why are Tom Scully's posts as big as a billboard? Why do you have a photo of yourself that looks like you're one of the Dukes of Hazard? Why are your interests the size of several volumes of an encyclopedia? And if that wasn't enough why do you have a large pointless photo of cops at the bottom of your posts? Can one apply to be an editor of a moderator?
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This is a real good find.
Was any of this stuff found? I don't think the Roselli stuff was, was it?
And why was so much of it anonymous?
The ARRB is looking worse and worse.
I obtained all this from Rex Bradford 7 years ago. And read almost all of it. I double-checked a few of them, and it looks like they're all up on the Mary Ferrell site.
So I guess this material was never really lost.
No one claimed they were lost. It is a record of them keeping track of the obviously historical records they are intentionally destroying.
And that's a fact. Many of these docs are up at Mary Ferrell, which proves the point John Newman made many years ago - that they never make one copy of any document, unless it is a very dangerous one, as the purpose of making documents is to pass the info on to others. It's just they never suspected that these records would be ever revealed to the public - and the excuse that the records requested have been destroyed is just a bogus excuse to get around having to provide them.
There are copies of the unedited AF1 radio transcripts out there, SS Agent Blane says that he has kept copies of the SS Advance reports for Miami and Chicago that they intentionally destroyed after they were requested by the ARRB, and he's kept them in a box in his closet.
If you believe the Navy completely lost the entire office records for Admiral Rufus Taylor, the Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI), then our Navy must be so incompetent that we might as well surrender.
BK
Where did SS Bane say this, and when? Do you have proof he said this?
Joe Backes
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Never heard of this book or theory, but it sounds a lot like the beginning of the movie 'SALT' starring Angelina Jolie. If you've not seen it, it starts with the premise that in the early 60s, LHO went to the USSR and was killed and replaced by a 100 percent lookalike Russian assassin named Alex Hidell. And then Hidell is the one who killed JFK. The U.S. Gov figured it out and thats why it had to remain hush hush.
I enjoyed that movie, good action, good twist at the end. Had no idea it had JFKA stuff in it, and was surprised to see it in the intro of the movie.
I've seen it. Some of it was filmed here in Albany, NY. They liked our roads, bridges, underpasses and overpasses on 787 which parallel the Hudson river. It was hysterical to watch the road out of Washington, D.C. become the roads around downtown Albany. You'd have to have lived here to really know it though.
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Actually we've had that document for a very long time. I would imagine the mary ferrell foundation should have it.
One source is -http://whokilledjfk.net/lho.ht8.gif
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Yes. It's simple. "Harvey and Lee" is 100% BS. It accepts every story of Oswald now matter what, or from who and puts one set of actions by Oswald in the Lee column and one in a Harvey column. No story is ever addressed as being A.) a lie or B.) someone who was not Oswald at all. Armstrong's knowledge of the entire case is tissue thin. He accepts things that if he was an educated man he'd reject.
No thought is given to the reality that Oswald did not kill Tippit.
And as for going "home," to 1026 N. Beckley "he" whether you want to call him Lee or Harvey DOES NOT GO THERE TO CHANGE HIS CLOTHES. Actually, if you follow the Mary Bledsoe story Oswald did not change his clothes at all when he went to 1026 N. Beckley. The WC said this. I went into this on my blog. Here's the relevant portion from - http://justiceforken...ry-bledsoe.html
But, there's are several problems with Bledsoe recognizing Oswald by his shirt. He's wearing a blue jacket according to McWatters and Jones over that shirt. So, how does she see torn off buttons and a hole near the elbow? This sounds like the shirt Oswald was wearing when arrested in the Texas Theatre, and matches the description of what we see in the TV coverage when he's under arrest and brought up and down those hallways. But, he went home and changed his shirt. So, he's supposed to be wearing a different shirt than what Bledsoe claims she saw him wearing on the bus. She shouldn't be shown the shirt he was arrested in, but the one he wore before, that he had on while on the bus
[ Point # 65 ] Oswald going to 1026 North Beckley and changing his clothes gets a rewrite too!
The brown shirt and grey trousers are listed on F. M. Turner exhibit #1, Volume 21, page 679, the last two items on the page.
Now wait a minute, didn't Oswald change his shirt at 1026 N. Beckley? See the problem? If Oswald was wearing a ripped and torn shirt all day, though only Bledsoe saw it, and Oswald goes home and changes his shirt, how come he's still wearing the ripped and torn shirt when arrested? Or are there supposed to be two pairs of brown shirts and two grey trousers? Oops.
Moreover, Oswald told Captain Fritz that during his brief visit to his room he had changed his trousers and his shirt, "because they were dirty," and that he placed them "In the lower drawer of his dresser." (WCR 604-605, 622) The police officers who searched the room did not indicate on the police property list that discarded trousers and shirt were found there. So, where did they go?
"Nevertheless, the Commission asserts on the strength of Mrs. Bledsoe's testimony and the bus transfer found on Oswald that "although Oswald...claimed to have changed his shirt, the evidence indicates that he continued wearing the same shirt he was wearing all morning and which he was still wearing when arrested."
(from Meagher p. 80, quoting WCR 124-125)
There are witnesses that say Oswald did pay for his ticket.
Yes, there are reports of an arrest in the balcony of the Texas theatre and reports of someone being taken out the back. But, there is no reason to believe this is a second Oswald.
Don't try to sort this case out from Armstrong's book. It can't be done.
Joe Backes
I respect everyone's opinion. I think Oswald was Russian. Also I remember that Bledsoe noted that Oswald was sitting on the bus in black pants with white paint stains on them.
And who the hell is Donald O. Norton? A figment of someone's imagination? On the Internet I found he owned a fishing gear store, lived about 2 hours from me. He chartered boats up and down the Atlantic Coast of Florida. I was told he was Lee Oswald. He didn't look like Oswald to me. And that his signature was similar to LHO's. Also his shop became a tourist attraction. He upped and left.
Kathy C
A Florida researcher, who sends out way too many emails, believes that one of Armstrong's Oswalds lived on under the name of Donald Norton.
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Yes. It's simple. "Harvey and Lee" is 100% BS. It accepts every story of Oswald now matter what, or from who and puts one set of actions by Oswald in the Lee column and one in a Harvey column. No story is ever addressed as being A.) a lie or B.) someone who was not Oswald at all. Armstrong's knowledge of the entire case is tissue thin. He accepts things that if he was an educated man he'd reject.
No thought is given to the reality that Oswald did not kill Tippit.
And as for going "home," to 1026 N. Beckley "he" whether you want to call him Lee or Harvey DOES NOT GO THERE TO CHANGE HIS CLOTHES. Actually, if you follow the Mary Bledsoe story Oswald did not change his clothes at all when he went to 1026 N. Beckley. The WC said this. I went into this on my blog. Here's the relevant portion from - http://justiceforkennedy.blogspot.com/2012/01/lifton-education-forum-mary-bledsoe.html
But, there’s are several problems with Bledsoe recognizing Oswald by his shirt. He’s wearing a blue jacket according to McWatters and Jones over that shirt. So, how does she see torn off buttons and a hole near the elbow? This sounds like the shirt Oswald was wearing when arrested in the Texas Theatre, and matches the description of what we see in the TV coverage when he’s under arrest and brought up and down those hallways. But, he went home and changed his shirt. So, he’s supposed to be wearing a different shirt than what Bledsoe claims she saw him wearing on the bus. She shouldn’t be shown the shirt he was arrested in, but the one he wore before, that he had on while on the bus
[ Point # 65 ] Oswald going to 1026 North Beckley and changing his clothes gets a rewrite too!
The brown shirt and grey trousers are listed on F. M. Turner exhibit #1, Volume 21, page 679, the last two items on the page.
Now wait a minute, didn't Oswald change his shirt at 1026 N. Beckley? See the problem? If Oswald was wearing a ripped and torn shirt all day, though only Bledsoe saw it, and Oswald goes home and changes his shirt, how come he's still wearing the ripped and torn shirt when arrested? Or are there supposed to be two pairs of brown shirts and two grey trousers? Oops.
Moreover, Oswald told Captain Fritz that during his brief visit to his room he had changed his trousers and his shirt, "because they were dirty," and that he placed them "In the lower drawer of his dresser." (WCR 604-605, 622) The police officers who searched the room did not indicate on the police property list that discarded trousers and shirt were found there. So, where did they go?
“Nevertheless, the Commission asserts on the strength of Mrs. Bledsoe's testimony and the bus transfer found on Oswald that "although Oswald...claimed to have changed his shirt, the evidence indicates that he continued wearing the same shirt he was wearing all morning and which he was still wearing when arrested."
(from Meagher p. 80, quoting WCR 124-125)
There are witnesses that say Oswald did pay for his ticket.
Yes, there are reports of an arrest in the balcony of the Texas theatre and reports of someone being taken out the back. But, there is no reason to believe this is a second Oswald.
Don't try to sort this case out from Armstrong's book. It can't be done.
Joe Backes
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Do all that stuff; you will be glad you did. Stay at the St. Lawrence, but be sure to take a visit to the Adolphus, that is where JFK Lancer is held and also LBJ used to see his girlfriends there.
Adolphus is a legendary hotel in Dallas. Also, it is across the street from where Jack Ruby's Carousel Club is.
IS? No, not is, was, past tense. It's not there anymore.
Joe Backes
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Hello,
Please support what I'm doing with additional information. We got the truth on our side on this one. Thanks.
Joe Backes
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hi joe; the one above,the one of af 1 with the coffin loaded, is from the web, i had a much smaller one, so i went looking
to see what was available at google photos, and i borrowed it...
is something wrong with it...??is it yours ???there was no copyright associated with it...not that i saw... 
or do you mean the autopsy painting ugh photo, that was from rich's years ago, someone posted it there and it ended up in the collection......if that;s the one you mean... thanks bNo, nothing wrong with it, and, no, it's not mine. I was just wondering where it came from. The AF1 painting one with it in flight showing the interior and the coffin.
Joe
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It is disinformation.
See my blog - http://www.justiceforkennedy.blogspot.com/2012/03/and-disinformation-continues.html
Joe Backes
A source for the film of Oswald going past Lovelady into Fritz's office
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Joseph Backes
David,
What's so special about the Sheriff's Office?
It is not true that Mr. Shapiro was the first one to alert the FBI about the issue of "Doorway Man." Mr. Shapiro talks with the FBI on the 25th. Nor was he the first one to give the FBI a copy of the Altgens photo.
Altgens photo was on the AP wire within 40 minutes of the assassination, TV stations could have gotten it off the AP and showed it live. As recall, the NBC footage broadcasted on the A & E channel entitled "As it Happened," showed some photographs from Dallas and Dealey Plaza. Perhaps they showed this one from Altgens? It was certainly available for evening newspapers, and extra editions. By the 23rd it was in nearly every newspaper on earth, often, as the case with The Washington Post, on the front page.
The FBI knew of this issue and contacted Lovelady at his house and asked him about the Altgens photo the night after the assassination. So, that would be the 23rd. See CE 1408.
Weisberg writes that on November 25th, 1963 a Mr. Mike Shapiro, manager at WFAA-TV in Dallas brought the Altgens photo to the attention of local FBI agents. Shapiro tells them that an individual (perhaps an employee?) in the Associated Press office in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania noted a similarity between “Doorway Man,” and Oswald. Shapiro gives the agents an enlarged copy of the Altgens photo. (Whitewash II p. 154) However, this is not where the FBI obtains the photograph for the first time.
There is an FBI report dated March 3, 1964 ( CD 457a, reproduced on p. 188 of Photographic Whitewash). It states that the first time the FBI knew of the Altgens photo was when Mr. Mike Shapiro of WFAA-TV in Dallas showed FBI agents an enlarged copy of the Altgens photo. But, the report does not mention Altgens by name. The report says the photo was taken by “an Associated Press photographer,” even though the captions crediting him are refered to. (PW p.66) Weisberg believes that by not mentioning Altgens by name the FBI doesn’t draw attention to its failure to interview Altgens by this date.
This March 3, 1964 FBI report goes on, building on the (false) foundation that it had not acquired a copy of the photo until Nov 25th when FBI agents went to Mr. Lovelady who identified himself in the photo. But, this is all false. The FBI showed Lovelady a copy of the Altgens photo the night after the assassination.
Weisberg refers to a book called, “The Kennedy Assassination and the American People,” that mentions how Elmer Lower, an executive with ABC - TV wondered what to do with a photo that seems to suggest Oswald witnessed the assassination and was not the assassin. He worried it would cause a sensation. “We decided against using the picture immediately. Instead we informed the FBI about it.” ( Whitewash II p. 153 ) And so the FBI checked out the photo and soon declared it was not Oswald but another employee.
I’m not sure of the exact time frame here when the FBI talk to Elmer Lower but I believe this happens prior to November 25th because Weisberg mentions this Elmer Lower story (Whitewash II p. 153) prior to telling us about Mr. Michael Shapiro (Whitewash II p. 154) whose story happens on November 25th, 1963. I have ordered a copy of “The Kennedy Assassination and the American People,” that Weisberg quotes from, and if that gives a date for the Elmer Lower - FBI meeting I’ll make note of it.
Weisberg writes that the FBI had and used a copy immediately. (Whitewash II p. 154.) But, I don’t see exactly how, from who, or exactly when they got it. And I believe that making a mystery over when and from where the FBI got any copy of the Altgens photo is deliberately put into the record. Once it is on the AP wire they could have gotten it from that. Perhaps they just used a copy from a newspaper. They had evening newspapers back then. I’m inclined to believe that they got a copy from Elmer Lower with ABC, but even if so this may not have been the first one they got. Perhaps they got it from AP in New York City when the negatives went there. (Although there is controversy if the negative stayed in Dallas or was sent to NYC the night of the assassination.) They did get a copy from Mr. Shapiro, “The FBI solemnly borrowed the copy shown to it by Shapiro and made a copy of it.” (PW p. 67) But, that was on the 25th.
Weisberg believes the original negative remained in Dallas (Whitewash II p. 154). Richard Trask, in “Pictures of the Pain,” believes the original negatives were sent to AP HQ in New York on a commercial plane. (Pictures of the Pain p. 318) Trask writes that Altgens never saw prints made directly from his negatives before they were sent to New York. “Altgens had been so busy, that he had not gotten prints of his photos and had to request copies from New York, but apparently he never acquired a whole set of his pictures.” (Pictures of the Pain p. 318)
At no time prior to June of 1964 did the FBI go directly to the Dallas Associated Press office to obtain the original negative or ask questions of Mr. Altgens who worked there and lived in Dallas. As late as June 1, 1964 Hoover writes to Rankin that “efforts are being made to locate and interview him.” ( Whitewash II p. 155; this June 1, 1964 letter is reproduced on p. 200 of Photographic Whitewash.) For more than six months the FBI cannot find the Dallas Associated Press office? The FBI is not that incompetent. They were staying away from Altgens for some reason. Something else was going on. They "find" Altgens on June 2nd, 1964. See CE 1407.
We do know that the FBI had a copy by the 23rd because they showed it to Lovelady that night, and not two days later. How do we know this? We know it because of an article in The New York Herald Tribune dated May 24, 1964. This is CE 1408, (22H794) “The Picture With a Life of Its Own.”
It is written by Don Bonafede and apeared in The New York Herald Tribune, magazine section, May 24th, 1964. The whole article is not reproduced!
The Commission only reproduces the last two pages of the magazine article. (Whitewash II p. 187) They only reproduce a photocopy of page 9 and 10 of the magazine. Page 9, at the top, has a photo of Oswald with the shirt he had on the day he was arrested, then an enlargement of the Altgens photo highlighting “Doorway Man,” and then an even bigger enlargement showing the face of “Doorway Man.” So, The New York Herald Tribune did what the Warren Commission refused to do, namely give the reader appropriate photographic material to make a comparison. The article tells the story of how one guy, Jones Harris thought the man in the doorway was Oswald and how he tried to get a good copy of the photo. Once he got a good copy Harris tried to bring it to the attention of various officials.
I could go on, I'm working on an article to refute Fetzer's and Cincque's stuff, but think I've made the point I wanted to about Mr. Shapiro being the first to tell the FBI about this "Doorway Man" issue.
Joe