Ed LeDoux

Sorry the automatic reduction washed out the text, so I was editing it while you were trying to take a peek. Its fixed now.

Robin -"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows!"-From old radio show "The Shadow" John, >Sitzman is a bit waffly about what exactly she did and when she went in to the cupola. She says she went first down hill where she spoke to a FBI guy, the went uphill and behind, no into, hangon a minute, was it in or behind, anyway, after some bla bla ended up in the pergola at some point. Altgens 8 shows Zap leaning against the place he took the film from, apparently looking in the direction he thought the shot came from. There is a gap in everyones timing to account for. Sitzman didn't go straight into the cupola.< Weigman is a clock. He shot 36 unedited seconds of film from after the second shot. He ran to the knoll with his camera running. He is a gauge for when the Zman and Sitzman did what and when. Take a look.

Moved from John Dolvas "Shot From The North" thread:

Are these two the black couple that was seen by Sitzman having lunch on the bench by the cupola/retaining wall. Perhaps they are actually Cuban not African-Americans. What is in his jacket?

Thomas, Thanks, If John doesn't mind we can continue here, or better yet I should take this to its own thread. (see "Cubans Packing In The Plaza?") Its only fair to Mr. Dolva since he provided me the same courtesy. John, Yeah, I just know it as a cupola or shelter#3 from the "locals" and the Roberdeau diagram. It should be remembered that Zapruder, Sitzman and Hesters moved into the shelter (cupola) quickly after. Could the "Cop" maybe gone around the pergola to the east and by cupola #4? This after running into Smith and/or Summers. Bothun 4 shows someone going that way. Once together with the woman, he closes up the trench coat and she gives him the Generic Police Badged Hat(Highway Patrol) for the getaway. Robin, Great shots of the shed, interesting stuff as always! More after Santa gets through wrapping presents, Ed

Hello Michael, [They surely wouldnt be wearing an "Iowa Police" badge and try to represent a Dallas patrolman!] Anyone from the Dallas area, or surrounding areas, would probably know what an area badge looked like, or resembled. From most views, there didnt seem to be many people at that time who wasnt related, knew, or werent personal friends with someone from the Dallas PD. Im sure most people knew [maybe not exactly] what a Dallas PD badge looked like, or what it closely resembled. Let me clarify a bit. The Iowa hat badge represents a common style of badge, I'm not saying the Hat Badge Man (HBM) is an Iowa officer. These badges all are the same style or outline, that was the first step in ID'ing the HBM. Now if we agree the style matches then we can find out what Departments used that style of Hat Badge in 1963 Texas. It may be a Dept. Of Public Safety device for Highway Patrolmen's Hats. You are correct that the parts need to match, i.e., hat badge-credentials-uniform-etc. That is why he is not DPD, because the Hat badge does not match the DPD Hat Devices (badges). The Iowa badge was just a guide to get everyone looking for pictures of uniformed individuals with that emblem design on their caps. If we couldn't define what the badge looked like then we could never tell where he worked. Hello Jim, Here is the seizure man. "Jerry Belknap a Dallas Morning News employee had a seizure near the TSBD- THE NEW YORKER November 30, 1992 by Edward Jay Epstein Since the spectator who suffered an epileptic seizure fifteen to twenty minutes before the motorcade's arrival was not identified by the Warren report, Jim Garrison had the hypothesis that the man was part of paramilitary group in charge of diverting the attention with a simulated seizure. Actually, that man was Jerry Boyd Belknap, a Dallas Morning News employee. He had taken medication to cure a head wound he had suffered in a car accident when a child. He was rushed to Parkland hospital in an ambulance, but left the hospital without receiving any treatment. Later, Belknap declared he had left Parkland because of Kennedy's arrival shortly after he was admitted." The only testimony I remember was: Mr. Liebeler. Now after you received your instructions at 8:45, what did you do? Mr. Smith. I proceeded to the intersection of Elm and Houston, and it was about 9:50 or 10 o'clock when I was on the corner there. At approximately 11:50 or 12 o'clock, there was a white male that had an epileptic seizure on the esplanade on Houston Street between Main and Elm. Well, I went down to see if any assistance was needed, and I stayed there until the white male was loaded into an ambulance and sent to a hospital. Then I proceeded back to my assignment. Mr. Liebeler. Were there any other officers there in connection with this fellow that had the epileptic fit? Mr. Smith. Yes; there was one more. He was a radio patrolman. Mr. Liebeler. Do you remember his name? Mr. Smith. I don't remember his name. I swear, I was trying to think of it before this even. Mr. Liebeler. He was a radio patrolman? You mean he was driving a motorcycle or had a car? Mr. Smith. No; he was assigned, I think, if I am not mistaken, I think he was assigned to Main and Houston, and he was down there with the man when arrived at the scene. Mr. Liebeler. So you called an ambulance, or an ambulance was called and this man was taken away, and you went back to the corner of Elm and Houston Streets? Mr. Smith. Yes. Mr. Liebeler. How many officers were assigned at Elm and Houston? Mr. Smith. Three of us. Mr. Liebeler. Who were the other two men? Mr. Smith. W. E. Barnett, and E. L. Smith. I think that is his initials. I know it is another Smith boy anyway. Mr. Liebeler. How did you station yourself when you got there? Mr. Smith. Just after we got the epileptic seizure en route to the hospital, I hadn't gotten back to the corner but just a few minutes until the motorcade was coming, so I stationed myself on Elm Street in the middle from the southeast curb of Elm and Houston and held traffic up. Not that it didn't happen just it is not in the record. Anyone else know of any nurses that were in the plaza? Ed

Here is an enhancement of what you posted, treated with Photoshop's Shadows and Highlights filter, Levels, then Smart Sharpen. The image was too low resolution to be able to bring out any more detail than this on the original (center) image, but I think it has brought out sufficiently more to make it worth posting: Hello Ashton, Thank you. That did make some details stand out. It seems that even with a better original it would still only show "Police" as the state lettering is so small. I'll still wait for some contacts to view your enhancement before shelving this for a while(till Boxing day). Ed

here is larger image of hat badge. Victor Klein, The Badgemaster wrote me to confirm; "Thats a very generic style used in the 60's. Unfortunately no one produces this style badge any more so it would be a matter of waiting for one to surface." Thats good, at least it is not unique to Iowa, but bad because it could be from anywhere around Texas. That is the style though. Ed

This is an old Iowa State Police Police Officers hat with the badge still attached. It is very similar. It overlays exactly. It is just an older design year, likely 50's. Well what does everyone think?

>Not wanting to clutter up Ed's topic with this speculation, but drawing on that and some other findings.< I thought I heard my name. >The man, with the rifle under coat goes around the collonade into the covered sentry box where he hands the lady the ghillied rifle, she puts the stock end in her large purse and bundles the lower end of the ghill material in/around her hand and purse handles and hands him the cap.< By covered sentry box do you mean the cupola(s)? >Nice ladies, particularly ones dressed as nurses don't carry rifles, and cops do escort people.< An Annie Oakley/Florence Nightingale combination, kinky? >They mingle and slowly make their way across the plaza to the PO. where the rifle is handed in to later become the rifle that is presented as the murder weapon."< Harry Holmes and Terminal Annex Bld. Could this be the black couple who sitzman saw on the bench. Whats in his jacket?

The following are three newspoaper stories of the crash of the U-2 piloted by Capt Joe Hyde as transmitted via the wire service's AP & UPI. DMN 11-21-1963 U-2 Plane Reported in Crash KEY WEST, Fla - (UPI) A U-2 "spy" plane believed to be on a reconnaissance mission over Communist Cuba crashed Wednesday in the Gulf of Mexico Wednesday, 40 miles northwest of here. Military sources in Washington said the U-2 pilot did not radio any indication of trouble before the crash and the plane presumably went down due to mechanical trouble. However they said the crash could have been the result of a Cuban attack. The pilot of the U-2 was identified as Capt. Joe E. Hyde Jr., 33 of La Grange, Ga DMN 11-22-1963 Wreckage of Pilotless U-2 Located KEY WEST, Fla - (AP) The wreck of a U-2 plane was found Thursday on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico. But its cockpit was empty, holding out hope that its pilot Capt. Joe G. Hyde Jr., might have survived the crash. Presumably returning from a mission over Fidel Castro's Communist Cuba, the high flying reconnaissance aircraft suddenly vanished from radar scopes at 10:32 AM. Wednesday, some 40 miles northwest of Key West and 188 miles north of the Cuban coast. It was there that debris was sighted Thursday morning by the searching Coast Guard cutter Nemesis. By 11:30 A.M. divers from the Navy salvage vessels Petrel and Shrike were on the wreckage in 100 foot-deep water and had confirmed that the pilot was not in the cockpit. At La Grange, Ga., Hyde's home his mother clung desperately to the belief that her 33 year-old son was still "living somewhere." Navy and Coast Guard planes and surface craft plunged into a search for the pilot. But a Navy spokesman said, "I don't hold much hope for him." The Navy denied a rumor that a parachute had been sighted. Both the Defense Department and the Strategic Air Command headquarters at Omaha, Nebraska said that there was no evidence that the sleek one man plane which flies at admitted heights of 75,000 feet had met with hostile action over Cuba. This is the last of the three stories which ran in late 1963..... DMN 12-2-1963 U-2 Pilot Dead AF Discloses LaGrange, Ga., - (AP) The Air Force has disclosed that a U-2 plane pilot died in the crash of his plane which went down in the Gulf of Mexico Nov. 20, after a mission over Cuba. A Coast Guard cutter found the plane's wreckage about 40 miles northwest of Key West, Fla., the following day. The Air Force notified the family Saturday that it had substantiated that Capt. Joe G. Hyde Jr. the pilot, went down with the plane. Notification was in the form of a telegram. Cause of the crash has not been announced. The victims wife said plans are being made for a memorial service at LaGrange. Robert, I happily posted the articles from DMN I have saved on this matter. Sounds like a freedom of information request could get the ball rolling. Do you think it was damaged by a near hit by soviet missile and managed to make it back to US soil(waters)? 27 October - Maj. Rudolf Anderson was shot down by SA-2 over Cuba; Anderson was killed when shrapnel punctured pressure suit causing suit to decompress at altitude and was posthumously awarded Air Force Cross. Could Hyde's loss be more of the same bad news and pressure by the pentagon kept it on the back page? Other shoot downs: 1 May 1960 near Sverdlovsk, Russia. Shot down by multiple SA-2s, CIA Pilot Francis Gary Powers survived and was put on trial and convicted as a spy, he was later traded for a convicted Russian spy. 9 September 1962 A Chinese Nationalist U-2C was shot down over Mainland China. 1 November 1963 A Chinese Nationalist U-2C was shot down over Mainland China. 7 July 1964 A Chinese Nationalist U-2C was shot down over Mainland China. 10 January 1965 A Chinese Nationalist U-2C was shot down over Mainland China. The question is was this pilot error, equipment malfunction or a shoot down, albeit delayed. How did they know? There would be a lot of paper work on this through several channels. It just needs to be looked at again.

>Well, I think this is a very interesting and potentially lucrative area of analysis; a couple of observations. The Badge: The top half of the badge appears octahon shaped while the bottom half is more standarized looking.....I did some image searches under google image "law enforcement badges then "search within results" then, tried "early 1960's".....based on preliminary results,.....nothing identical popped up; next stop.....Countries which hold potential linkage based on background of the "usual suspects," France....Mob....Corsican.....Marseilles....Mexico, Canadian, Hungarian, GERMAN, intelligence, a US Law enforcement particular state badge......? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badge http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=...amp;btnG=Search Potentially, it could even be a phony badge, as in not an official badge and therefore, not limited to traditional, or, known design..... The I.D.[ing] of the badge seems very do-able.< Hello Robert, You bring up some fine points of interest. I did follow your lead and wiki provided this, An Air Force Fire Protection Badge. Also someone mentioned our man's hat badge reminded him of a Navy(?) recruiter hat badge but can only find the Breast Shield, as is the case with many sites, a neglect for the uniform cap and hat badge. Plus this "A cap badge, also known as head badge or hat badge, is a badge worn on uniform headgear such as the Boy Scouts, civil defence organizations, paramedical units (e.g. the St. John Ambulance Brigade), customs services, fire services etc." and "A combination cap is a form of military headgear worn with dress uniforms. It has a crown, a band and peak (peak in British English, visor in US English). In Britain and Canada such caps are usually known as peaked caps or (in the British Army) service dress caps. In the United States military, they are commonly known as service caps, wheel caps, or combination covers in the Naval services. The crown is one color, often white for navies, sky blue for air forces, and green for armies, and may be piped around the edge in a different color. The band can be one color, often black, or can be striped. Most caps have some form of cap device (or cap badge). In the British Army, each regiment and corps has a different badge. The bill is short, and in newer caps, may be a shiny plastic. Sometimes, it is covered in fabric. " "In the United States Navy, chief petty officers and commissioned officers both wear combination caps, but there are differences between the two types. A chief petty officer wears a combination cap with a black chinstrap attached with silver buttons, and decorated with a gold fouled anchor with silver block letters "USN" superimposed on the shank of the anchor; while a commissioned officer wears a combination cap with a gold chinstrap attached by gold buttons, and decorated with an officer crest, a silver federal shield over two crossed gold fouled anchors, surmounted by a silver eagle.........." I thought it may also be a private security force badge, not necessarily Public or Governmental service. Robert you gave me many ideas and leads, thank you. Ed "Badges? We ain't got no... stinking badges!"-Alfonso Bedoya in Treasure of Sierra Madre

Robin, Darn you beat me to the post, I made this for nothing then! Oh well, back to the Badges and Raincoat........... Ed

Hello Bernice, >Either that, or speaking into a something, or coughing.....??< Smoking? Robin, >Nice job Ed.< Thanks. Superb blow up of Bell frames. Different woman? Maybe the purse is LIGHT light colored and we see it in shadow, but not the same woman. Notice the green and white car has barely moved and she is in the left of the frame. John, LOL! curtain rods.............

>Great thread Ed. He's been a constant sore for me as well. I remember being told that he was DPD - he isn't. And if he was, he certainly wouldn't be waltzing across the lawn with a lady at his side during this monumental event. I was trying to ID him as a Submarine Commander - due to the JFCOTT stuff and some other bizarre stuff that I had heard. No clue - but it would be great to put this one to bed. I alleged that he purposely avoided the camera. Just an opinion.< Thanks Lee. You are correct, not DPD. Can't tell if the lady is with him, though it may be that she is. You know those Navy guys got a lot of action. It's the tattoos. Ex-Thresher crewman/officer, or Connally supporter? Could go either way (killer or clapper) lol. If he was driving Wing's Rambler we can get a two for one deal. Hopefully I can get a good lead from someone after the holidays and wrap this one up. Some are just camera shy, nothing sinister about that.......or is there? Ed

Hello all, Looking for info on the Trench Coated man with Hat Badge seen in Bell film. Robin said John Dolva may shed some light on this mystery man. I am posting the Bell Frames in Question as well as Some similar Hat Badges and also some from my late Fathers time as Captain in the Anchorage Fire Dept. As you will see the Breast Shield (Badge on your chest) are usually different from the Hat Badges. I will know more after Christmas, as some friends are going to show these pictures to "older" relatives who were in various services in Dallas at that time. Some early returns pointed to the Navy. The direction he was heading was toward the Terminal Annex Building which may mean Fed, or Government employee. Some ideas I had were, in no particular order: Firefighter Prison/Corrections Federal Marshall (usually rounded shaped w/star in center) Civil Service Military(Navy, Etc.) Government: Local, County, State, Federal. Note the black visor and gold piping Close, but remember Hat Badges are slightly different than shields. These are a few badges (Shields) of interest, although not Hat Badges. The Houston is circa 1960, no date on the Navy Police one. Some of my Dads uniform hats and badges, others are in AK State Archives in Juneau,but this gives the idea of difference between Hat Badge and Shield. As well as this combination, Ed "Badges.....we don't need no stinking badges!"

I am 38 years old. I attended Oregon State and University of Alaska Anchorage. Live in Anchorage Alaska, where I was born and raised. I have been student of the JFK assassination since reading Liftons 1st edition of Best Evidence back in 88' Have worked many jobs from the North Slope to the Exxon Valdez oil spill. Have been a corrosion engineer and salesman for corrosion products used on the pipeline. Own my own business and enjoy the freedom it gives me to follow the JFK research. Father was secretery/treasurer for local Democratic party in the 50's, and spent years working on getting his archives to Juneau (state capital) for all to enjoy and research. They can be found in the C.E. "Chick" LeDoux archives. I believe a conspiracy exists.