Kathleen Collins

I think, believe it or not, that the man in question is actually holding a baby. A baby and his/her diaper bag.

Kathy C

Kathy...have you ever seen a round diaper bag with a black stripe?

That stripe looks to me to be added to those frames, like drawn or painted on. I don't know why the man looks like he does.

Kathy C

Look at the people in the upper right corner of this frame. They have their backs to Kennedy. I'll say the Z-film is altered!

Kathy C

They probably couldn't see him from there, so why look? They were watching the rest of the motorcade (the newsmen, physician, etc., who were all kept as far away from JFK as possible).

I don't buy it.

Kathy C

Plumlee and his associate, who he has reported as being sent to Dallas as part of an assassinations abort team, clearly heard a shot fired from behind them, that would put it in line with the shot origin I have been describing. Plumlee was also ex-military and was their to stop an assassination attempt, so he would be prepared for the sounds he was about to hear. He apparently also recognized the ideal location of the south knoll region as that is where he chose to station himself. [\quote]

Tosh, I need to ask you a few questions and I hope you don't get angry because we like you on this forum. But there are things I wish to clear up.

What good is an assassination abort team that arrives minutes before the motorcade? How were you going to find the shooters? How were you going to do that in that short time? It sounds like a "half-assed" scheme to me. I don't think you had ever been in Dealey Plaza before. In what way were you going to stop Kennedy (and Connally)'s execution?

Other questions: Had you ever met Lee Harvey Oswald? Do you believe there were 2 Oswalds? Did you ever meet David Ferrie? Did you ever consider the possibility that you were flying the assassins themselves, with only minutes to spare? Something's not right. I hope you will answer these questions. I don't mean them in a mean-spirited way. I'm just not following your logic.

Kathy C

One view point might be a back throat shot

JFK was first struck in the throat circa Z190 and seized up paralyzed

by circa Z230.

He was looking hard to the right at Z190:

I plump for 3 head shots incl south-knoll/grassy knoll/west-TSBD6thfl... fwiw...

I mentioned this before somewhere else. Look at the people in the upper right corner of this frame. They have their backs to Kennedy. I'll say the Z-film is altered!

Kathy C

Let's find some things we can agree on. I OBVIOUSLY DID NOT "LITERALLY" MEAN A BOWLING BALL! I meant it

was about the SIZE of a bowling ball.

Can we agree:

1. This "thing" is seen in the Nix film.

2. This "thing" is round.

3. This "thing" appears to have a horizontal black stripe around the circumference.

4. This "thing" has no apparent means of support.

5. This "thing" splits into two parts in subsequent frames.

6. This "thing" is about the size and shape of a bowling ball (without finger holes).

Can we agree on the above. If you disagree with any, please say why.

Here is a computer enlargement and "enhancement with pseudo-colors to try to see more:

I think, believe it or not, that the man in question is actually holding a baby. A baby and his/her diaper bag.

Kathy C

I have just reread A Deeper, Darker Truth by Donald Phillips which presents the work of Photonic expert Tom Wilson. In one chapter, Tom analysed an enlargement of Atlgens photograph #5. Tom Wilson's conclusion of the Dal-Tex second floor open window shows a man with a beard looking with his left eye through a device described as follows: " the device has a small oval tube at the end nearest the window. There are two small protrusions coming out of the device on the side away from the man. The device is aprx 6 to 9 inches in diameter and is aprx 36 to 48 inches long with a 90 degree eyepiece. Tom finishes the paragraph with his need to investigate this device further. I thought I might give it a try. After researching through the United States Patent Files, I think I may have found a device that matched Wilson's description.

Under Patent US 6705194B2 , issued on March 16, 2004 a patent was issued for a device for firing " a traceless gun firing lethal or non-lethal bullets . After impacting the surface of the substrate the ice bullet is melted and no traces of the bullet remains. The Patent is for " A Self Rechargeable Gun and Firing Procedure and the assignee is named as "Jet Energy Inc. NJ.

I will attach the PDF file ( it's 8 pages and not too technical). Focus on Fig 6 whose look a demensions are a good match for the Wilson device. It also uses an explosive propellant rather than high pressure. Maybe thsi is the "firecracker" sound heard. It was discussed that the first shot should be the kill shot, but maybe that was not case. Maybe the first shot ( in ther back) was to make sure that JFK would not be knocked down thus out of sight for the other teams. Instead , maybe it was thought to paralysis him then he's an easy target for the rifle teams. I propose that this device existed in 1963 and used a paralysising compound in hard ice form. Read the Patent and see the muzzle velocity ( up to 9000 ft/sec) and Fig 8 shows an inpact into 20 mm of plywood. It also had a telescopic sight fitted US_Patent_6705194_Ice_Bullet_Gun.pdf

Excellent, Steve. But I feel the Assassination was helped the most not by tricky gadgets but by the limo stop. And they got him.

Kathleen C

I apologize. I have spent a lot of time in the south knoll area and know that it was a great spot to be concealed but I do not know who Officer White (what is his first name) is and where he exactly was allegedly standing.

Officer J.C. White was stationed on the west side of the underpass over Elm, behind the railroad workers on the east side. From his advantage point he could have seen anyone behind the wedged banister on the south end. But he testified that a train blocked his view to the east (and to the south) during the shooting, when there was no train till minutes later.

He must have had a pretty strong reason to risk being charged with perjury about the train. (But the WC of course was perfectly satisfied with his story.)

Thanks Ron. I too had a problem with Whites statements as to the train crossing. Some years after the assassination, when Congressman Thomas Downing had asked me about the statements of a "Dallas Police Officer", (no name given) I was told by some on that staff that a train was moving over the underpass at the time of the assassination. I made the statement to them that there was no train at the time the shots were fired on the underpass. That was before the HSCA was formed and before Richard Sprig? or Gonzalos came on board However, that was not incorporated into my statements at the time and I was discredited. (note: that was long before the pictures of Delay Plaza and its south side was released) Its been my experience that sometimes people do not listen to what is really being said, or read what has really been written, because they have their own preconceive ideas as to what really happened and do not want to be diverted into reality or admit they were wrong.., or maybe for other reasons of which is known only to them.

Could the shooters from the South Knoll have been placed there because they weren't sure if Jackie was going to sit on the left or the right? If she sat on the right, I guess the South Knoll shooters wouldn't have to worry about her. Obviously, President Kennedy wasn't leaving there alive.

Kathy C

I HAVE FOUND THIS PHOTO FROM A PAST THREAD ON THE EF DONE THE PHOTO I BELIEVE BY JOHN DOLVA IN REFERENCE TO THE GUNSMOKE ODOR..IS THIS ABOUT CORRECT AS IT GOES...THANKS B PS HOPE YOU DO NOT MIND THE POSTING OF SERGIO'S PHOTO IT HAS BEEN IN THE PAST ON HERE THAT'S HOW I SNAGGLED IT...

This is the first time (that I can recall) that I've seen the picture of and the name of a man called Sergio involved somehow in the Assassination. Was he a Cuban exile?

Kathy C

Bernice, where it is circled is erroneous to me. To our left stand 2 men it seems. Also, there seems to be a man south and on the level of the top of the underpass. It's either a man or it's the top of the lamp pole.

Kathy C PS KATHY THE CIRCLED INFO MEN ABOVE WAS DONE BY TOSH SOME YEARS AGO IN THE CROP OF THE CANCELLARE SO THERE YOU GO WHAT DO I KNOW NADA...B

KATHY THE CIRCLED WHATEVER ARE NOT OF MY DOING TO ME IN FACT I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT WAS A LIMB I AM POSTING SOME OF WHAT HAS BEEN GATHERED DOWN THROUGH THE YEARS HOPEFULLY SOME MAY BRING FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT AS IT MAY POSSIBLY JAR SOME PEOPLES MEMORIES...AND PERK UP OTHERS THINKING CAPS..TO STEP IN WITH THEIR INFORMATION..SO MUCH HAS BEEN LOST OVER THE YEARS AS WEB SITES FALTERED OTHERS BOUGHT UP AND THE WORK DISAPPEARED SOME DELIBERATELY IMO...SO I TRIED TO GATHER AS MUCH AS I COULD RE THIS INFO HOPING SOME DAY IT MAY HELP BRING SOMETHING TO LIGHT ALONG WITH THE VERY THOROUGH AND GOOD WORK OF DOUG AND ALSO TOSH'S WHO HAS TRIED MANY TIMES TO GET HIS OUT FOR ALL.SO SAVE WHAT YOU CAN,IF INTERESTED EVENTUALLY IT IS GONE AND NEVER SEEN AGAIN THIS AREA HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO ME ONE OF SUCH... .B

I'm glad you posted those photos. Now maybe we can find out what they actually show. This is a very interesting thread.

Kathy C

Bernice,

Thanks. It is apparent from Foster's statement that a train passed soon after the shooting. White simply had the train arrive sooner to coincide with the shooting and block his view of it.

I don't wish to make another thread. I just want an opinion as to how the 3 tramps were caught on a train. Did they want to get caught? Was this a ruse so the real shooters could get away? Apparently, they weren't on the train that passed after the shooting.

Kathy C

I am disappointed in researchers here.

This is what the man was really holding.

I kid you not.

Jack

It looks like E.T. next to the man.

Also, how garbled that photo is yet there's that one straight line.

Kathy C

imo doug and ]all that would be a great source if we could have threads of both tosh's info of a south side of elm thread and this one to continue..there has been much information being released and offered by doug in this thread am i now surprised it has been halted to some degree..no not in the least it really was going too well, seems that happens not faultng anyone but that does seem to happen often...please continue tosh if possible.and if you do want your information out there if not it cannot be looked into any further can it..??.tosh thanks for your information it is always of great interest to many others....why pack up your bags so quickly AND LEAVE STAY AND stART A NEW THREAD COPY AND PASTE all YOUR INFO AND TEACH THOSE WHO DO WANT TO ACCESS SUCH, or let them down, your call..best b..please excuse the caps and muddled typing..txs

Bernice, where it is circled is erroneous to me. To our left stand 2 men it seems. Also, there seems to be a man south and on the level of the top of the underpass. It's either a man or it's the top of the lamp pole.

Kathy C

Is this the Cancellare photo of the South Knoll you're referring to, Tosh?

Kathy C

I cannot remember where I heard this but I remember hearing that Onassis' son was murdered by the CIA because Onassis had begun his own personal investigation on the JFK Hit and he was warned to stop. Just a bit of food for thought. I am not endorsing such a statement but is (like many elements in the JFK case) possibly worthy of further inquiry.

You are like me in ways. I'm always reading something or watching or talking to someone about JFK and then I can't remember where I heard or read something specific.

The Gemstone File I read was all about Onassis. He wasn't investigating the assassination. He financed it. So there's the difference.

Kathy C

Today I saw on TV VP Biden with ashes on his forehead. Today is a very important day for the Catholics. I don't recall Kennedy with ashes, or for that matter Jackie. Does someone have a photo of either of them with such? One website I went to said there was never a photo of the President having ashes on his forehead.

They were Catholics, especially Jackie, who had the power to consult wth the Pope.

Kathy C

According to Hankey as well, Jr was speaking with a health foods guru A. True Ott. I think this would definitely have to be substantiated or corroborated but apparently and according to Ott, Jr was gathering evidence against GHWB for his participation in the murder of his father. This article was/is published on Rense.com. and think it deserves further investigation

.

Speaking of stories that reek of BS. This is unsubstantiated double hearsay. Ott supposedly claimed to have some secret files that he gave John-John. How an eccentric ex-communicated Moron conspiracy nut living in a small town in UT could have gotten a hold of such documents has AFAIK never been explained nor why even 10 plus years later he failed to hand them over to anybody else. Hankey made numerous claims up “of whole cloth” and is not a reliable source.

George Magazine/JFK Jr wasn't a threat lol...? Well I am not totally sure about that. The man includes Oliver Stone speaking against (essentially) the W.C (mind you this is JFK's son magazine lol

One article in 4 years about the assassination it’s not like he was pursuing the issue. Have you actually read the article? It doesn’t seem to be online.

and also George interviews the mother of the alleged assassin of Rabin and the basic implication of that article is/was that her son was controlled by the Mossad and that there was no way her son could have done what her son did without the Mossad's participation in preparations . I find it difficult to believe that such articles are not a threat in today's (and yesterday's) Private Intelligence Services-run world.

Actually she said it was the Shin Bet. I read that a while ago, it was nothing more than a mom claiming her son was innocent she offered no evidence just inconclusive undocumented claims that he was set up. And it like the Stone article it was published long before the crash. And Kennedy was rather dismissive of it he described it as "interpretative and clearly the view of an anguished mother and a staunch right-winger. '' not ''an objective examination of the events surrounding the assassination.''

http://www.jfkmontreal.com/jfk_jr_&_rabin.htm

http://www.newsmodo.com/1997/04/02/rabin%2....jsp?id=3961959

http://64.233.163.132/search?q=cache:H2fdK...lient=firefox-a

It was hardly controversial Google news only turned up about 20 articles that mentioned it mostly in passing, most if not all on back pages. The majority ones that were about it were about Rabin’s widow denouncing it.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?as_q=...mp;as_scoring=a

I just wanted to say I read the article on Rense.com. It was compelling. The name of the file Kennedy Jr was allegedly given was "The Gemstone." I found a "Gemstone" online and much of it was crap. Especially the garbage it says about Ted Kennedy.

Johnny Roselli did the headshot on President Kennedy and fled under a manhole cover behind the fence and out through the sewer. Oswald shot John Connally twice from TSBD. And there were 2 other shooters: Frattiano from Dal-Tex and the other from the south knoll pergola. I don't remember his name. Basically the Mob did it. That's what The Gemstone was about. The article on Rense.com said John Jr read info about George HW Bush killing his father and told Ott that Bush would soon be indicted for murder. And then John Jr was killed shortly thereafter. I didn't read anything on Bush in "The Gemstone." FWIW.

Kathy C

refer to the end of the second last section of Bell

I watched the Bell film again. I don't know what you're talking about. As far as the FBI finding flowers in the car, I thought the Secret Service cleaned the car as best they could under Johnson's orders. Am I wrong? Is there a photo?

Kathy C

This black man, standing alone on Houston Street, strangely has a pink toy dog

under his left arm. Why? Anything conspiratorial here? Does the dog hide a

hidden gun? Today, the Secret Service would likely throw him to the ground.

Just one for the HUH? File.

Jack

It's odd but Jackie was given a little toy dog at Love Field and when they were on Houston, Jackie is showing President Kennedy the toy.

Kathy C

DON WROTE;

Len can ridicule Tom Flocco and other internet web sites that tackled this story, but the fact is no establishment press organ did, or probably ever will report anything but official statements on the JFK, Jr. crash. Thus, those internet sources are all we have.

The reasoning here is a bit circular, the lack of solid evidence of foul play is considered evidence of foul play. Flocco is a crack pot who claimed Barbara Oslen was arrested on the non-existent Polish-Austrian border, bearing a Vatican passport and counterfeit securities in the extinct Italian Lira. As per the John-John crash, he claims the Bushs (Pappa Doc and Jr.), the Clintons (Bill and Hillary) and "Mike" Harari (a retired Mossad agent) were spotted personally tampering with his plane.

Not knowing Tom Flocco, I almost had a heart attack when he said Barbara Olsen was found alive. And then, of course, I realized it was a hoax. That's why I can't believe the report on John Jr that's on his website.

Kathy C

Posner sucks

Posner is finished in the Journalism business. He should just stick to writing novels.

Kathy C

add : as I touched on in needlepont, using the mona lisa as example, here is a charcterised, text, version of it

%$$$22222222222555222222222225522500

=+++%+++%%%%%%%%%%+++++==++++%%+%%%$

*======*=====++%$22$%=***========+%%

********(****+0058mEEm8=********==++

****((((((((+2;!!;*0m##E+*(((((**=+=

+++=***(;;;=8+;!!(*=2E#©m2%+==(**=++

852$222$+==2Q$+*++%$$m#©©A8005=*=+$2

0880008A88AQm+;;=(;*5E#©©mA8885$2500

QmAAAAAAAQQEEA=*2%=2AE#©©#EmmEmmQmEE

EmmQQQQQAA8mE#m$%20QE#©©©#QQQmEEEEE#

EmEmAA80055AEE##A8AA8Q#©©©EQQQmmmm#E

QAAA8AAQQQQmmmA5+*===%QEE©©#EQQ58QE#

8AQ8008QQmmmA2(!!!!!;*0AE©###A5508Am

88AA8550QEEQ+;,,,,,!!=50558m©©©mQA55

A052550Q##EA5+=(!,,!*$0Am#©©HHH©EmmQ

Q82$22Q###mmmQ888808QmEEmEE#©©©©©mEm

Q85228E©©©#©##EEEE#©©©##EmQm#©H©©#m#

A888AE###©©©©©©©#©©H©©©©##©©©HH©©©#E

QQmEEEEEE#©©©©©©©©HHHHH©HH©©HHH©©©©#

QE##EmmmE#©©©©©©HHHHHHHHHH©©©HHHHH©#

E###QA8A80$%28m©HHHHHHHHHHH©HHHHHHH©

E#©©Emmmm2=*(((*$0E©HHH©©HHHHHHHHH©©

E©©©©©©©#A5$%===+$$500AAAQE#HHHHHHH©

#©©©©©©©02+=205$$55AQmmmE###©HHHHH©#

©©©©©©©©E82AmEEEEEEm©©©©©©©HHHH©©©©©

#©©©©©©©©#E©©©©#©©©©©©©HHHHHHHH©©©©©

#©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©HHHHHH©HHHH©©HH©©©©©

font="Courier New", 2

and the basis with a snapshot of the text which us then gauss smoothed

I think it helps to understand perception in terms of amount of data, which is relevant to photo analysis, the result speaks for itself imo

I know this is off topic, but I didn't start it. The blurry picture of the Mona Lisa on the right looks like figures seen on the grassy knoll -- how to get them clearer?

Kathy C

I'm bumping this up. Could someone look at post 172 and give an opinion? It's on the last page. Thank You.

Kathy C

Van Gogh?

Kathy C

Kelley's book about the Bushes (The Family) did hit the NYTimes Best Seller list in 2004.

Kathy C

Anybody wanting to compare major-publisher accounts of the Bush family could do far worse than conferring Baker with Kitty Kelley's The Family. Kelley nails Brown Brothers Harriman, Prescott Bush's Nazi connections, Zapata Oil and the BOP, etc.

Kelley was dogged and fearless enough to pursue Frank Sinatra's past, while Sinatra was alive, for an impressive bio called His Way. To say Sinatra hated Kelley is an understatement; yet, said the scuttlebutt in the 1980s, his legal advisors told him not to bring suit, as the passages most offensive to him would be judged substantially factual. It's about as good a book, really, as Anthony Summers' volume on J. Edgar Hoover.

The Sinatra credential speaks well of the author, and you have to give Kelley propers for being willing to go up against W., H. W., Barbara, and the Barbara. It's the kind of investigative work that Dorothy Kilgallen, sadly, only hoped to pull off. One wonders if, had Kilgallen lived to write on Ruby and other matters, the tar of having once been a "women's columnist" would have been flung at her as it has been at Kelley. That stigma seems to have put her Bush book unjustly behind Baker's.

Gore Vidal thinks highly of Kitty Kelley. He considers her a historian. I still think the publicity for that book was stopped. Maybe media outlets wouldn't book her. Or else she received threats. I wonder if it hit the Best Seller lists like it should have. My library had a copy.

Kathy C