Chris Courtwright

Greg - I guess the point I would make -- setting aside the controversy about whether the guy sent to Bellevue was the actor of 1970s fame -- is that things like this were put down VERY quickly after the assassination. (Someone who recalled seeing a pro-Castro Oswald in the USA in 1961 when the real deal was supposedly in Minsk.) In another very similar case, journalist Ray Carnay reported to the FBI the weekend of the assassination that he had met with a very provocative Castro-sympathizing Oswald at an airport hangar in Dallas in 1961. The FBI grilled and badgered Carnay repeatedly (after digging up some old arrest records that would have ended his career and holding them over his head like the Sword of Damocles) in an effort to get him to change his story. Which to his credit, he never quite did. Sort of a similar circumstance, dontcha think? These kind of things must have seemed very inconvenient.

Sterling - This is all great stuff, especially about Lansdale and Anderson. Is it all sourced someplace, or is your information-filled post sort of an accumulation of your own personal research? Is it published someplace?

Steve - The link I have been clicking on at the beginning of this thread only appears to me to provide links to Document Groups 1-29. Where are you finding 30-40? Thanx in advance! Chris

Thanks, RCD! I'll see if I can't get ahold of these documents. To Kathleen's point, the thing that interested me about Nebel (Knebel?) is that based I what I found out about him digging around on the Internet last week, he was indeed increasingly controversial later in his career, what with his wife and the Marilyn Monroe stuff, etc. But his reputation as of October '63 was simply that of a guy who liked to discuss provocative topics and had a large national audience, I gather because of the strength of WOR's signal. So he would have been a logical choice for someone to call up in October of '63 if they were trying to replay/reinforce Oswald's pro-Castro antics and rants from the New Orleans episodes (street scuffles and radio station interview) over the summer. In other words, could this have been an effort to sheep-dip Oswald on a slightly larger stage? This is suddenly fascinating the hell out of me. Remember that the whole Landesberg stuff that John Armstrong covered occurred in New York.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...ocs2/jfk143.pdf I wanted to again thank Steve Thomas for all of his diligence in summarizing the document releases from the Dallas DA. I asked about this back in the "Dallas On-Line" thread, but it is starting to get buried in the more general ongoing discussion. Had anyone else ever hear about this supposed call to WOR "about six weeks before the assassination"? I can't recall ever having heard about this before, and I'm certain I've not seen any declassified documents about it. I was hoping maybe Jack White or Robert Charles-Dunne or others with a good deal more institutional memory on this kind of thing than me can tell us if they'd stumbled across this before or is this new to them, as well? Is this really all we have on this? A third-party account after the host, Nebel, has told the columnist, Considine, about it? It's odd that there wouldn't have been follow-up FBI interviews of one or both of them that would not have turned up in the files over the years. In any event, the call would have been around Oct 11, so if Nebel was remembering it correctly, it would not seem possible that Oswald would have been calling him from Louisiana around that time. Was someone impersonating Oswald for the benefit of a nationally known radio show famous for covering provocative topics? For what purpose? It's also interesting to me that the call was "paid" and that "Oswald" volunteered to travel to New York on his own dime to do a radio interview. Anyone have any thoughts or perspectives on all this? Thanks in advance! Chris

Steve - Thanks again for doing all this. That article about the call to WOR "about six weeks before the assassination" is intriguing on a number of different levels and is new to me. That would have been Oct 11, so it would not seem possible that Oswald could have called him from Louisiana around that date. So was someone impersonating Oswald? Also, it's interesting that the call was "paid" and that "Oswald" volunteered to travel to New York (perhaps on his own dime) to do a radio interview.

Tosh - Sorry to keep jumping around within this thread, but this talk of radio station's broadcasting abort signals, etc. got me to remembering something else I wanted to ask you: Do you have any recollection of Ray Carnay, former news director of KBOX in Dallas in the early 1960s? He used to interview Charlie Waters and other anti-Castro Cubans a lot on the air ...

An interesting FYI that may or may not be relevant to this thread: Source: FoxNews Vice President Dick Cheney was visiting Dallas on Monday for undisclosed reasons. Cheney and is wife, Lynne, arrived at Love Field airport at about 11:15 a.m. The smiling and waving couple exited Air Force One about 5 minutes. A limousine quickly escorted from them from the tarmac.

Thanks again, Tosh, for your recollections of Waters. And thank you, James. I gather that the rather specific nature of this information on Waters suggests that you are getting it from documents. Do you have the document numbers I can cite? Thanks! Chris

In reference to you question: "... any recollections of anti-Castro soldiers of fortune named Richard Tullis or Charlie..". Waters...". I think I knew Waters, but not that well, more like our paths cross at one point. Tell me if I'm on the right track. This sticks in my mind for some reason. He was often hanging out at a Drive In Restaurant in Oak Cliff where girl car hops used roller skets to serve their customers. He was a friend of Jerry Faucher?? (pho sp... Foo'shay) and was at times with the Dallas Cubans on Harlendale and the Cuban gun running operation associated with Frandenz?.., and too was close to a US Marine, Wayne Howard of Dallas and Donald Smith a Navy diver and frogman, also of Dallas ( who live on Travis St, near Knox St., with his sister). Am I thinking about the right Waters? Tullis, Im not sure about. Tosh - It sound very much like we are talking about the same Charlie Waters. Here is what I know: In the Spring of 1961, Waters was interviewed by KBOX news director Ray Carnay and claimed to be in Dallas in the aftermath of the Bay of Pigs to be recruiting pilots and “guerrilla forces” for another potential invasion and, in the meantime, for participating in “flying tiger” leafleting harassment raids. He claimed to be working with Antonio de Varona and other anti-Castro exiles, as well as US intelligence. Waters also was affiliated with the New Orleans based Friends of Democratic Cuba group, whose members also included Guy Bannister, William Dalzell, and Gerard Tujaque (former employer of Oswald). The FDC group had attempted to purchase trucks from the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans in January, 1961 while using Oswald’s name. Dalzell in 1967 testimony to Jim Garrison indicates that Waters may have been the man impersonating Oswald during the transaction. Waters in a 1961 report to the Dallas FBI also claimed to be a fomer Marine who had been in Marine Corps Intelligence with a top security clearance. Dalzell also told Garrison that Waters had been a significant weapons broker with contacts capable of providing large quantities of automatic weapons. Sergio Arcacha Smith in 1961 told the FBI that Waters had actually taken over the leadership of the FDC for a time after Dalzell had difficulties with local police in New Orleans. Waters by 1964 was back in Dallas working as a car salesman and reporting to the CIA on anti-Castro activities (and may well have been there at the time of the assassination). Any further recollections you have would be most helpful! I believe he is the same person. I am going off memory. At one point (and not having any direct contact with him) I was told this name by one of my case oficers in West Palm Beack Florida ( on an unrelated matter) that he, under code name,was one who went into Dallas to help stop the assassination. (abort) However, I do not believe he was on my flight to Dallas. The names you posted do fit with the people I was associated with and knew rather well.., Arcacha, Varona, ect.... it fits with the time line of the time.... if he was CIA and on that mission do you know how he got to Dallas that day? And too, what "code" name he used for that mission? Thanks again for all the fascinating info. Tosh. No, I don't know how he got to Dallas. I think it's possible he was already living and working there at the time of the assassination (at least he was there by '64, according to one document I have). Just to make sure I am tracking: Are you saying that your CIA case officer in Florida told you that Waters was dispatched to Dallas (assuming he was not already there) as part of an "abort" team who failed to stop the assassination? I am not sure if he told me he was SENT to Dallas or was in Dallas. If he was already in Dallas then he would have been dispatched by MI at Love Field (112th I think) or ONI at Hensely Field. (if he was Navy) I think he was already in Dallas and perhaps I assumed he was "sent" being as I was SENT from Florida.... Its been a long time and as I've said I am recalling from memory. I put him as being associated with the Dallas Cubans on a early gun running operation that had nothing to do with the JFK assassination. That was before JFK about 1961-62 I think. (even as late as the spring of 63 perhaps, sorry) Don't apologize. You are being more than helpful with your recollections. Do you remember if Waters was a Cuban? I have come to suspect that "Charlie Waters" was an alias, and I have not been able to pin down his nationality. Anything else w.r.t. his physical description you could remember also would be great (i.e. was he a huge soldier of fortune type like Hemming, etc.). Thanks again for all your input with this! Regards, Chris

In reference to you question: "... any recollections of anti-Castro soldiers of fortune named Richard Tullis or Charlie..". Waters...". I think I knew Waters, but not that well, more like our paths cross at one point. Tell me if I'm on the right track. This sticks in my mind for some reason. He was often hanging out at a Drive In Restaurant in Oak Cliff where girl car hops used roller skets to serve their customers. He was a friend of Jerry Faucher?? (pho sp... Foo'shay) and was at times with the Dallas Cubans on Harlendale and the Cuban gun running operation associated with Frandenz?.., and too was close to a US Marine, Wayne Howard of Dallas and Donald Smith a Navy diver and frogman, also of Dallas ( who live on Travis St, near Knox St., with his sister). Am I thinking about the right Waters? Tullis, Im not sure about. Tosh - It sound very much like we are talking about the same Charlie Waters. Here is what I know: In the Spring of 1961, Waters was interviewed by KBOX news director Ray Carnay and claimed to be in Dallas in the aftermath of the Bay of Pigs to be recruiting pilots and “guerrilla forces” for another potential invasion and, in the meantime, for participating in “flying tiger” leafleting harassment raids. He claimed to be working with Antonio de Varona and other anti-Castro exiles, as well as US intelligence. Waters also was affiliated with the New Orleans based Friends of Democratic Cuba group, whose members also included Guy Bannister, William Dalzell, and Gerard Tujaque (former employer of Oswald). The FDC group had attempted to purchase trucks from the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans in January, 1961 while using Oswald’s name. Dalzell in 1967 testimony to Jim Garrison indicates that Waters may have been the man impersonating Oswald during the transaction. Waters in a 1961 report to the Dallas FBI also claimed to be a fomer Marine who had been in Marine Corps Intelligence with a top security clearance. Dalzell also told Garrison that Waters had been a significant weapons broker with contacts capable of providing large quantities of automatic weapons. Sergio Arcacha Smith in 1961 told the FBI that Waters had actually taken over the leadership of the FDC for a time after Dalzell had difficulties with local police in New Orleans. Waters by 1964 was back in Dallas working as a car salesman and reporting to the CIA on anti-Castro activities (and may well have been there at the time of the assassination). Any further recollections you have would be most helpful! I believe he is the same person. I am going off memory. At one point (and not having any direct contact with him) I was told this name by one of my case oficers in West Palm Beack Florida ( on an unrelated matter) that he, under code name,was one who went into Dallas to help stop the assassination. (abort) However, I do not believe he was on my flight to Dallas. The names you posted do fit with the people I was associated with and knew rather well.., Arcacha, Varona, ect.... it fits with the time line of the time.... if he was CIA and on that mission do you know how he got to Dallas that day? And too, what "code" name he used for that mission? Thanks again for all the fascinating info. Tosh. No, I don't know how he got to Dallas. I think it's possible he was already living and working there at the time of the assassination (at least he was there by '64, according to one document I have). Just to make sure I am tracking: Are you saying that your CIA case officer in Florida told you that Waters was dispatched to Dallas (assuming he was not already there) as part of an "abort" team who failed to stop the assassination?

In reference to you question: "... any recollections of anti-Castro soldiers of fortune named Richard Tullis or Charlie..". Waters...". I think I knew Waters, but not that well, more like our paths cross at one point. Tell me if I'm on the right track. This sticks in my mind for some reason. He was often hanging out at a Drive In Restaurant in Oak Cliff where girl car hops used roller skets to serve their customers. He was a friend of Jerry Faucher?? (pho sp... Foo'shay) and was at times with the Dallas Cubans on Harlendale and the Cuban gun running operation associated with Frandenz?.., and too was close to a US Marine, Wayne Howard of Dallas and Donald Smith a Navy diver and frogman, also of Dallas ( who live on Travis St, near Knox St., with his sister). Am I thinking about the right Waters? Tullis, Im not sure about. Tosh - It sound very much like we are talking about the same Charlie Waters. Here is what I know: In the Spring of 1961, Waters was interviewed by KBOX news director Ray Carnay and claimed to be in Dallas in the aftermath of the Bay of Pigs to be recruiting pilots and “guerrilla forces” for another potential invasion and, in the meantime, for participating in “flying tiger” leafleting harassment raids. He claimed to be working with Antonio de Varona and other anti-Castro exiles, as well as US intelligence. Waters also was affiliated with the New Orleans based Friends of Democratic Cuba group, whose members also included Guy Bannister, William Dalzell, and Gerard Tujaque (former employer of Oswald). The FDC group had attempted to purchase trucks from the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans in January, 1961 while using Oswald’s name. Dalzell in 1967 testimony to Jim Garrison indicates that Waters may have been the man impersonating Oswald during the transaction. Waters in a 1961 report to the Dallas FBI also claimed to be a fomer Marine who had been in Marine Corps Intelligence with a top security clearance. Dalzell also told Garrison that Waters had been a significant weapons broker with contacts capable of providing large quantities of automatic weapons. Sergio Arcacha Smith in 1961 told the FBI that Waters had actually taken over the leadership of the FDC for a time after Dalzell had difficulties with local police in New Orleans. Waters by 1964 was back in Dallas working as a car salesman and reporting to the CIA on anti-Castro activities (and may well have been there at the time of the assassination). Any further recollections you have would be most helpful!

Thanks, Tosh. I think we are saying the same thing: that some of this racist stuff could have been salted in among the relevant JFK stuff over the years so as to provide cover for its not being released. The most benign interpretation I can come up with is that I think there's some indication that the Dallas cops and DA were very upset when the FBI swooped in and absconded with much of the evidence. Some of it could have been held back sort of passively-aggressively (to teach Hoover, et al, a lesson) until at some point later in the 60s they realized they should have turned it over to the FBI or Warren Commission. I can also come up with a number of less benign interpretations. By the way, do you have any recollections of anti-Castro soldiers of fortune named Richard Tullis or Charlie Waters who operated in and around Dallas in the late 50s and early 60s? I tried to pm you, but that feature is not working for you. Thanks in advance for all your help with these things! Regards, Chris

Tosh - Thanks always for your man-on-the-ground insights w.r.t. how things fit into the Texas political context relative to the times. I very much enjoy your posts on this forum. Have you considered that while there certainly may be a lot of truth in all this about the racist background of law enforcement in and around Dallas in 1963 (and certainly the current DA emphasized this point during the news conference), that this may have morphed into sort of a straw-man cover story as to why this cache of materials has been concealed for more than four decades? How can we be sure that there are not materials that would have been "new" or relevant to the Warren Commission in the 1960s or House Select Committee in the 1970s when sensitivities about the racial history being an impediment to Dallas' economic growth would not have been nearly as pronounced? Who was the DA in the 1990s who violated federal law by not turning these materials over the ARRB? Should his pension be revoked if he is still alive? (Yes.) If there are relevant documents that could have enhanced our historic understanding, especially given all of the publicity during the ARRB's tenure (didn't they even travel to Dallas for a meeting to try and get all extant documents from public agencies?) it's hard to imagine the DA sitting there and refusing to acknowledge that he had at least 15 boxes of materials based on his subservience to the Dallas Chamber of Commerce and how the release might have imperilled economic development. I would tend to ascribe far more sinister motives to ALL Dallas DAs who knew about these materials. There was some indication that some of Oswald's clothing was included. For all we know, the ability to test it for DNA may be gone if it has been mouldering in a cardboard box in an office safe for 45 years. This is an entirely unacceptable breach of the public trust, imho. I just received a question from Dallas. "Why do you think the material recently found in a vault in Dallas was kept secret for all these years?". My reply: "Well it was not because of the JFK matter or a cover up in that direction, in my opinion. The Dallas Police Department at one time from the late thirties until the early sixties had over half of its force connected or associated in some way with the Klu Klux Klan (KKK), minutemen, etc, and within those boxes is a lot of information that shows the attitude of Dallas P.D. toward the Blacks of Dallas. To read those pages and reports today is very alarming and sickening. A black man was hung in Oak Cliff in 1948 while the DPD watched from a distance. " Let the little n bastard rot". It was said. On another example at a place near Bauchman Lake near Northwest Highway at Love Field and Lemmon Ave a young white lady was found raped and murdered and left under the bridge. She had been dating a Dallas Police office at the time. Within 48 hours there was an arrest, a black man, he was tried for the crime, convicted, in less than three days and executed at Huntsville Texas within the following year. Texas justice of the time. Thats the reason those boxes were with held by the many many people that knew about what was in that vauld and safe. There is some information on background concerning Roscoe White, that was not turned over to the FBI in 1988. Information concerning JFK is in those boxes, but the real reason was as I have stated. To release those documents and notes would be bad for Dallas and its Growth image.

The documents and materials need to be given to the National Archives. Let's remember that even though the ARRB sunset, the JFK Act has not. To hell with Gary Mack and/or the Smithsonian.