Dean Hagerman

Holy cow! I dont ever remember reading that footnote in "Best Evidence" I read BE back in 1987 for the first time and have read it probably 20 times, I do not remember that footnote! I grabbed my original hardcover copy of BE turned to chapter 24 and there it was! Great job David, the first time I remember reading about alteration was in Crossfire while reading the section on Jack White back in 1989

Yes this is what I said And yes I believe you should abandon Judyth and her tall tales to maintain your old friendships with Jack, David and Doug Jim I am looking out for your best interests I do not care about Judyth I do however care about you, I have stood behind you from the day I finished reading "Assassination Science" Thats why it hurts me to see the friendships being ruined, the last thing I want you to think is that im against you Jim because im not! Im against what Judyth is doing to you, I have asked over and over for you to step back and look at whats going on Jim, but I feel like you think im against you Put yourself in my shoes for one second Jim I grew up in the 1980s with David Lifton and later Jack White (After I saw Jack on TMWKK and reading about him in Crossfire and other books) as my heroes Then after reading "Bloody Treason" I became a believer in alteration, then came your three books with awesome parts by Jack and David I felt like I belonged to a group that believed in what I believed in Jim I have spent 95% of my assassination research on the alteration films and photos since 1997 And YOU were my voice Jim YOU were my leader in the alteration cause YOUR books became the most important books when it came to my research TGZFH became my bible Jim and I looked up to you as my leader Now I am seeing Judyth ruin the friendships that were formed and came together on TGZFH Just watch the video of you and Jack together at the end of his presentation at the Duluth Confrence Its like the group I am proud to be a part of is being torn apart by Judyth Not by you or Jack or David or Doug Its Judyth who is doing this Jim Please read this with an open mind Jim

Why post that garbage Jim? Just trying to sling crap on Jack that has NOTHING to do with this thread It is wrong of you to post that in this thread just to attack Jack Very wrong

I applaud you speaking out on your own behalf and standing your ground, Dean. And I thank you for your comments on the research I have done. I have enjoyed getting to know you, and I find your interest in truth, and wanting facts and time to look into and consider all rather than jumping on anyone's bandwagon refreshing ... and important in the research community overall. Sorry ... no sinister group to join anyway.<g> I respect your time constraints ... though you owe no one any explanations. Keep up the good work on all of your endeavors! Bests, Barb :-) Thank you very much Barb

Judyth is about as "real deal" as Anna Anderson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Anderson

Jim these two statements are the most outlandish thing I have ever read in my entire life

Very well said Doug Jim these are some of the same concerns that I have about Judyth's story He claims are just outlandish

Jim I never said I know more about Judyth then you do In fact im positive you know way more about her then I do And as for reading and listing to all the things you want me to I promise you Jim I will do that I own with my wife a very busy buisness and as you can see I only have time to make a couple posts a day I use the time right before I go to bed to read all the posts that I can then I hope to remember what to reply to the next day when I get a chance In fact I have many PMs that I am behind on right now but those members know I have little time So you have to give me time Jim, I will read the books (after I get them from Amazon) at night in bed and try to listen to and read your blogs this weekend Im sure you can understand Give me some time and then I can share my feelings about it with you, I will not reply to a book or blog that I have not read Thanks Jim I will keep you posted Dean PS I have been more and more interested in Barbs research and I am becoming friendly with Barb which has nothing to do with any "joining forces" with the enemy Trust me Barb and I disagree on alot of things, but we both want the truth, I like Barb and I think her research is top notch Im not joining her group or anything like that Jim, im just starting to look into Barbs research more deeply and im starting to agree with her Thats it, no sinister plots behind it Dean, if you change your mind about Judyth Baker and come to believe that she and Lee Oswald were lovers, after reading Dr. Mary's Monkey, I'll be glad to give you my extra copy of Harvey & Lee. Ed Haslam leaves no doubt that he believes in Judyth Baker as a person, as he puts it. But the actual evidence he gives in his book for her love relationship with LHO is minimal, certainly nothing that hasn't already appeared in this thread. In Dr Mary's Monkey, Haslam urges the readers to make up their own minds. He refers them to Baker's two volume book, Lee Harvey Oswald. He now admits this account is flawed. Keep in mind that, according to Judyth Baker, she made the decision not to tell Haslam that her book was unauthorized by her and contained errors. She would have told him if she'd had any idea he was writing a book. Yet, according to Haslam, she "corrected and corroborated" her story that ultimately appeared in his book. It's these types of accounts that give me a vague unease about the whole thing. At any rate, Ed Haslam has posted twice on this thread. The way I read it, he is asking members to wait until Judyth Baker's new book comes out to make up their minds. He concedes there are shortcomings in her previous accounts. Again, I have no doubt that Haslam believes she had a love affair with Oswald. He told Jim Marrs in 2003 that this belief stems more from his belief in her as a person than it does from actual evidence. If you get the chance, listen to that interview on YouTube, beginning at about the forty-three minute mark. In my opinion, Haslam has always been more interested in Judyth Baker's role in cancer research than he has been with her alleged love relationship with Lee Harvey Oswald.

Jim my mind has been changed 100s of times on assassination issues and theories Please tell me what this new relevant evidence is, because all I have seen in this thread from Judyth is old news that has been debunked or is just not to be believed I am very open and will read or listen to anything you have to say Jim Dean, if you change your mind about Judyth Baker and come to believe that she and Lee Oswald were lovers, after reading Dr. Mary's Monkey, I'll be glad to give you my extra copy of Harvey & Lee. Ed Haslam leaves no doubt that he believes in Judyth Baker as a person, as he puts it. But the actual evidence he gives in his book for her love relationship with LHO is minimal, certainly nothing that hasn't already appeared in this thread. In Dr Mary's Monkey, Haslam urges the readers to make up their own minds. He refers them to Baker's two volume book, Lee Harvey Oswald. He now admits this account is flawed. Keep in mind that, according to Judyth Baker, she made the decision not to tell Haslam that her book was unauthorized by her and contained errors. She would have told him if she'd had any idea he was writing a book. Yet, according to Haslam, she "corrected and corroborated" her story that ultimately appeared in his book. It's these types of accounts that give me a vague unease about the whole thing. At any rate, Ed Haslam has posted twice on this thread. The way I read it, he is asking members to wait until Judyth Baker's new book comes out to make up their minds. He concedes there are shortcomings in her previous accounts. Again, I have no doubt that Haslam believes she had a love affair with Oswald. He told Jim Marrs in 2003 that this belief stems more from his belief in her as a person than it does from actual evidence. If you get the chance, listen to that interview on YouTube, beginning at about the forty-three minute mark. In my opinion, Haslam has always been more interested in Judyth Baker's role in cancer research than he has been with her alleged love relationship with Lee Harvey Oswald.

Robin Im going to read the section on Croft in "Pictures of the Pain" as I forgot his movements through Dealey Plaza I will report back

Well Michael thanks for the offer but you know as well as I do that you will be keeping your extra copy of H&L Unless Dr Mary's Monkey contains pictures of Judyth and LHO embracing each other Im positive it will not change my mind I want to read it to try and see were Jim is coming from Dean, if you change your mind about Judyth Baker and come to believe that she and Lee Oswald were lovers, after reading Dr. Mary's Monkey, I'll be glad to give you my extra copy of Harvey & Lee. Ed Haslam leaves no doubt that he believes in Judyth Baker as a person, as he puts it. But the actual evidence he gives in his book for her love relationship with LHO is minimal, certainly nothing that hasn't already appeared in this thread. In Dr Mary's Monkey, Haslam urges the readers to make up their own minds. He refers them to Baker's two volume book, Lee Harvey Oswald. He now admits this account is flawed. Keep in mind that, according to Judyth Baker, she made the decision not to tell Haslam that her book was unauthorized by her and contained errors. She would have told him if she'd had any idea he was writing a book. Yet, according to Haslam, she "corrected and corroborated" her story that ultimately appeared in his book. It's these types of accounts that give me a vague unease about the whole thing. At any rate, Ed Haslam has posted twice on this thread. The way I read it, he is asking members to wait until Judyth Baker's new book comes out to make up their minds. He concedes there are shortcomings in her previous accounts. Again, I have no doubt that Haslam believes she had a love affair with Oswald. He told Jim Marrs in 2003 that this belief stems more from his belief in her as a person than it does from actual evidence. If you get the chance, listen to that interview on YouTube, beginning at about the forty-three minute mark. In my opinion, Haslam has always been more interested in Judyth Baker's role in cancer research than he has been with her alleged love relationship with Lee Harvey Oswald.

Jim Thank you for your replies The reason I have not replied about any of the posts about Armstrong is because I have not read his book. I am very upset with myself for not buying it when it came out, and my wife will not let me spend the $75.00-100.00 to buy the book. So I can not reply to anything that has to do with "Harvey and Lee" That would be very stupid on my part with out having read the book first I will purchase Dr Mary's Monkey per your suggestion and read it (as it is much less then H&L I will report back with my thoughts on it The bottom line is that I hate seeing you loose two friends over Judyth, aside from all the other stuff, that is what im really trying to say Jim Dean In every post before the last one I have expressed my feelings towards Judyth, but I have also said how I stand behind you Jim, what bothers you? I hope its not my feelings for Judyth because they have nothing to do with my feelings about you Jim I almost fell out of my chair when I read you were no longer friends with Jack Look what she has done to you Jim Do not let her do this, I look up to you Jim, I think of you as my voice for my alteration theories, I believe 100% in alteration Jim and stand behind you But I can no longer do that because Judyth is wrong and she is loving the fact that she is breaking up your friendships I have some questions for you now Jim, please answer them as I answered yours 1. Is believing in and backing up Judyth's story worth destroying two friendships? IF FRIENDSHIP OUT WEIGHTS THE SEARCH FOR TRUTH, THERE IS NO SEARCH FOR TRUTH, ONLY FRIENDSHIPS. 2. Are you willing to have all of your credibility destroyed like all the other researchers who stood by Judyth before? I SEE IT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. THE ARGUMENTS FOR JUDYTH ARE STRONGER THAN THOSE AGAINST HER. 3. What are you going to do and say when you find out that Judyth has been telling you a fake story? THIS IS CALLED "BEGGING THE QUESTION". WHAT WILL YOU DO WHEN YOU BELATEDLY REALIZE I AM RIGHT? 4. How many times will it take to prove to you that Judyth is not telling the truth? EGAD! I HAVE YET TO FIND ONE SERIOUS, PERSUASIVE ARGUMENT AGAINST HER PRESENTED ON THIS FORUM. 5. Why are you backing her up? BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN HER, JUST AS I HAVE BACKED UP LIFTON AND JACK WHEN I THOUGHT THAT THEY WERE RIGHT. 6. When did you start believing Judyth I ONLY BEGAN STUDYING HER SERIOUSLY SINCE 2007. THE MORE I HAVE LEARNED, THE MORE I HAVE BELIEVED IN HER. 7. Did she contact you or did you contact her? I THINK SHE SENT OUT AN EMAIL TO A HALF-DOZEN JFK STUDENTS, BUT I WAS THE ONLY ONE WILLING TO HEAR HER OUT. 8. Are you going to help her with her book? NO, HER BOOK IS BASICALLY DONE (ALL WITHOUT ME). IT SHOULD APPEAR IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS, I WOULD PRESUME. 9. Has Judyth's "research" been more important to you then Jack White's research? MORE IMPORTANT ABOUT LEE HARVEY OSWALD BY A CONSIDERABLE MARGIN, BUT NOT, SAY, ABOUT THE ZAPRUDER FILM. 10. Has Judyth's "research" been more important to you then David Lifton's research? NOT IN RELATION TO THE MEDICAL EVIDENCE OR THE Z-FILM, BUT I HAVE LEARNED NOTHING ABOUT OSWALD FROM LIFTON. 10. Do you believe Judyth over David Lifton? ABOUT OSWALD AND NEW ORLEANS, I HAVE LEARNED A GREAT DEAL FROM ED AND FROM JUDYTH BUT NOTHING FROM LIFTON.

Greg So its ok for Jim to post some silly Psy-Op garbage attacking Jack from an unkown person Why is it ok for Jim to do that but not ok for Jack? I dont understand

My answers in Bold In every post before the last one I have expressed my feelings towards Judyth, but I have also said how I stand behind you Jim, what bothers you? I hope its not my feelings for Judyth because they have nothing to do with my feelings about you Jim I almost fell out of my chair when I read you were no longer friends with Jack Look what she has done to you Jim Do not let her do this, I look up to you Jim, I think of you as my voice for my alteration theories, I believe 100% in alteration Jim and stand behind you But I can no longer do that because Judyth is wrong and she is loving the fact that she is breaking up your friendships I have some questions for you now Jim, please answer them as I answered yours 1. Is believing in and backing up Judyth's story worth destroying two friendships? 2. Are you willing to have all of your credibility destroyed like all the other researchers who stood by Judyth before? 3. What are you going to do and say when you find out that Judyth has been telling you a fake story? 4. How many times will it take to prove to you that Judyth is not telling the truth? 5. Why are you backing her up? 6. When did you start believing Judyth 7. Did she contact you or did you contact her? 8. Are you going to help her with her book? 9. Has Judyth's "research" been more important to you then Jack White's research? 10. Has Judyth's "research" been more important to you then David Lifton's research? 10. Do you believe Judyth over David Lifton?

I hope your happy Judyth, look what your fake tales have done You are making a huge mistake Jim, I cant believe you are saying this to Jack over a woman who has you under her spell Everything she has told you is a lie Jim Jack I am behind you, Jim is wrong for doing this and Judyth has now become my most hated person involved (I dont even want to call her involved) in the JFK assassination Dean

Perfect Jack, I agree

Thanks, Chris. I was able to SAVE the Flash Version but not the QT versions. This is peculiar. I have always been able to save QT movies and look at them a frame at the time. I am not able to do this with the ones you attached. Jack I could not save the QT version either, its weird like 50% of the time I cant dowload Chris's videos, but the other 50% of the time I can dowload them no problem I agree with Martin and Robin, its impossible to tell for sure but its probably Croft from the position, and Croft like Nix was very tall My main focus in the Dorman film has always been on Hugh Betzner

You cant think of anything? How about what you have done to ruin friendships? You have some nerve to try and say that its Armstrongs book that is dividing researchers It is YOU who is dividing researchers! You love this dont you? You love messing with peoples friendships because you have nothing in your sorry life but this fake story about you and Oswald It never happened Judyth, you might be able to fool some people but trust me you dont fool me at all, I see right through you I hope this really is the end of your using Jim to post all your fake stories on this forum It makes me sick to watch you tell these fairy tales through Jim while you sit back and laugh about the friendships of his that you have ruined

That is the worst poem I have ever laid eyes on and is not funny at all Judyth I believe you owe Jack an apology for being so lame

From where im sitting it looks like you cant even read Lee's name

Jim I cant believe I just read that I feel so horrible right now Jack and David didnt do this to your friendships, JUDYTH did this! Please Jim step back and look at the big picture, is it really worth it to loose two great friends and research partners over a false story that never happened?

For some reason I am not excited at all about this book

Judyth I respect Harry Livingstone alot, in fact High Treason is in my top 5 books on the assassination and one of the first I ever read I really would love to read your reply to these posts from Barb and Kevin (quoting Martin) I think this is a perfect chance to watch Judyth go crazy trying to defend these absurd actions she took with Harry