Bernice Moore

Mike I just spent ages, replying to you, and it is gone, it did not post ?????????and I now do not have the time to do so again.....the photos posted I see, or some. some will show you how close the limo parked to the inner sidewalk, and past the step leading into the Emerg...... but nothing of my long post............?? Now that sucks... Thanks for your good wishes...... For now.B.....

I have family concerns right now to attend to, and do not have much time, so I cannot regularly contribute to this thread.. So I have compiled some information from my files, for any member who is interested... .B..... Post # 13......Mike To Don Jeffries :Quote "There were in fact some, not many, who talk about a hole, yet significantly they do not all put the hole in the same place. " Some ??? ...There are at least 9 people , plus.......who have spoken about a hole in the windshield.. 9 Windshield hole witnesses Dr. Evalea Glanges, resident at Parkland Hospital and a friend who would not use her name.. George Whitaker, Ford Motor Company Glass Expert Richard Dudman- reporter Frank Cormier..reporter both -St.Louis Post-Dispatch Sgt. Stavis Ellis- Motorcyclist Dallas Police Department quote.. ''You could take a regular standard writing pencil, a wood pencil and stick it through there'.... and some SS agent run up and said 'Thats no bullet hole! thats a fragment''.. http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page H.R. Freeman- Motorcyclist Dallas Police Department Nick Principe-WH USA Park Officer SS Agent Charles Taylor Jr...accompanied SS Kenney who drove the limo to the W/H garage from Andrews page 370-371 of " Best Evidence".. it was examined by a 5-man team from the FBI Lab..Agent Taylor witnessed that examination, and wrote in his report, "of particular note was the small hole just left of center in the windshield" SS Abraham Bolden...who stated to Vince Palamara in a interview, he heard about a hole in the windshield And FWTAW. Two different unidentified callers to the "Jim Bohannon Radio Show......and to the "Larry King Live TV show..... The hole you have shown in the cropped enlarged Parkland photo, is almost the same size as the button seen on the hospital attendant's white smock seen on the left..... Post # 7...To Jack White :....Quote " It also would go to their credit if they had all identified the hole in the same place." All the descriptions are in the same general location..They are not describing a hole in the oppositie side of the windshield... Other than Ferguson, who describes the "defect"...and there is no defect in that location..... With the slant of the windshield their descriptions differ by a couple of inches and this is explained in Doug Weldon's work in the book "Murder In Dealey Plaza"......why this is logical..... Also read SSA Kellerman's testimony to the W/C....he notes a flurry of shots, though Specter accomplished changing that information..... He also speaks of how the windshield damage felt to him on the inside, the first time, he examined it.....and then how that had changed when he viewed and examined it on the second....exam.... Here also is a post by Ron Ecker Dec.04 on Kellerman's information....to the WC.. It is apparent from the WC testimony of SS agent Roy Kellerman that the damaged windshield was switched, not once but at least twice, between the shooting and the time that a windshield was brought into the WC hearing for Kellerman to examine. It should be noted, to begin with, that Kellerman believed there was a conspiracy, as is evident from his testimony that there had to be more than three shots. (And Senator Cooper obviously couldn’t believe what he heard.) I think that this would eliminate Kellerman as a conspirator. Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker report and the two other shots that I know, those were three shots. But, Mr. Specter, if President Kennedy had from all reports four wounds, Governor Connally three, there have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen. Senator COOPER. What is that answer? What did he say? Mr. SPECTER. Will you repeat that, Mr. Kellerman? Mr. KELLERMAN. President Kennedy had four wounds, two in the head and shoulder and the neck. Governor Connally, from our reports, had three. There have got to be more than three shots. Representative FORD. Is that why you have described-- Mr. KELLERMAN. The flurry. Representative FORD. The noise as a flurry? Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right, sir. Arlen Specter then gets Kellerman to admit that he didn’t actually remember hearing more than three shots. On to the windshield: Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to feel the outside of the windshield? Mr. KELLERMAN. I did on that day; yes, sir. (“That day” refers to Nov. 27, in the White House garage, the first time Kellerman noted the damage.) Mr. SPECTER. What did you feel, if anything? Mr. KELLERMAN. Not a thing; it was real smooth. Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to feel the inside of the windshield? Mr. KELLERMAN. I did. Mr. SPECTER. How did that feel to you? Mr. KELLERMAN. My comparison was that the broken glass, broken windshield, there was enough little roughness in there from the cracks and split that I was positive, or it was my belief, that whatever hit it came into the inside of the car. Several witnesses saw a through hole in the windshield. This is discussed in detail by Weldon in "Murder in Dealey Plaza." The windshield with no hole that Kellerman saw in the White House garage and described to the WC was therefore not the original windshield, but a replacement windshield that had been damaged by hitting it with something on the inside, making no hole and leaving the outside smooth. After the windshield is admitted into evidence: Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman. I would like for you at this time to actually touch the outside (of the windshield) and tell me, first of all, if it is the same or if it differs in any way from the sense of feel which you noted when you touched it on or about November 27? Mr. KELLERMAN. As I touch the outside on the impact, it would be the same as I noticed on the 27th of November. Mr. SPECTER. What do you notice, if anything? Mr. KELLERMAN. It is a smooth surface without any-- Mr. SPECTER. Without any--finish your answer. Mr. KELLERMAN. On the inside. Mr. SPECTER. No; before. It is a smooth surface without any what? Mr. KELLERMAN. Without any crack lines. Mr. SPECTER. On the outside? Mr. KELLERMAN. That can be felt. Mr. SPECTER. On the outside? Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right; on the outside of the windshield. But now Specter makes a mistake similar to the one the prosecution made in the O.J. trial by having O.J. try on the glove (it didn’t fit!): Mr. SPECTER. Feel the inside and tell us, first of all, whether it is the same or different from the way you touched it on November 27? Mr. KELLERMAN. On November 27, when I felt the inside of this impact area, I was convinced that I could - that I felt an opening in one of these lines, which was indicative to me that the blow was struck from the inside of the car on this windshield. Mr. SPECTER. Does it feel the same to you today as it did on or about November 27? Mr. KELLERMAN. As a matter of fact, it feels rather smooth today. Mr. SPECTER. It feels somewhat differently today than it felt before? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes; it does. Kellerman had to know at that moment that the windshield had been switched. And this was the second switch (at least) that had been made. (Having gotten rid of the hole with the first switch, why was a second switch made, to have both sides of the windshield smooth? I don’t have a clue.) Ron Ecker http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/kellerma.htm Concerning SSA Charles Taylor Jr.... ""In addition, of particular note was the small hole just to the left of center in the windshield from which what appeared to be bullet fragments were removed. The team of agents also noted that the chrome molding strip above the windshield, inside the car, just right of center, was dented. The FBI Agents stated that this dent was made by the bullet fragment which was found imbedded in the front cushion."" Record Number 180-10099-10390 Agency File Number 002528 Originator-WC From: Taylor, Charles E. To: Date: 11/27/63 Pages: 4 Subjects: Kennedy, John, Autopsy Evidence, Medical Wound Ballistics USSS Date of release: 12/16/93 Contents: Secret Service Report dated 11/27/63 by Agents Charles E. Taylor, Jr. and Harry W. Geiglein on investigation of clues found in the Presidential limousine. Document follows in full. ORIGIN: White House Detail OFFICE: Washington, D.C. FILE NO.: CO-2-34,030 TYPE OF CASE: Protective Research STATUS: Closed INVESTIGATION MADE AT: Washington, D.C. PERIOD COVERED: November 22-23, 1963 INVESTIGATION MADE BY: SAIC Harry W. Geiglein SA Charles E. Taylor, Jr. TITLE OR CAPTION: Assassination of President John F. Kennedy SYNOPSIS This report relates to the measures employed to effect security of the President's car, 100-X, and the follow-up car, 679-X, on return from Dallas, Texas, following the assassination of President Kennedy. DETAILS OF INVESTIGATION This investigation was initiated on November 22, 1963, following receipt of instructions from ASAIC Floyd M. Boring, White House Detail, that steps be taken to effect security of the President's car (100-X) and the follow-up car (679-X) on their return from Dallas, Texas. President John F. Kennedy occupied the rear seat of SS-100-X when he was assassinated, and SS-679-X was directly behind the Presidential limousine at the time of the assassination. There two vehicles were driven to Love Field, Dallas, Texas, for immediate transportation to Andrews Air Force Base, Washington, D.C. Following the arrival of President Lyndon B. Johnson and the remains of President Kennedy at Andrews Air Force Base, the reporting Special Agents conferred with Captain Milton B. Hartenblower, Duty Operations Officer, and Lt. Colonel Robert Best, Provost Marshal, Andrews Air Force Base, to arrange for landing instruction of the Air Force cargo plane transporting the subject vehicles and to escort these vehicles from Andrews Air Force Base. Also, arrangements were made with the U.S. Park Police for motorcycle escort of these automobiles to the White House Garage. DISTRIBUTION: Chief Washington COPIES: Orig. & 2 cc 2 cc REPORT MADE BY: /s/ Charles E. Taylor, Jr. DATE: 11/27/63 Charles E. Taylor, Jr. APPROVED: /s/ Harry W. Geiglein DATE: 11/27/63 Harry W. Geiglein SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: Harry W. Geiglein CO-2-34,030 Page 2 At 8:00 P.M. on November 22, 1963, SS-100-X and SS-679-X arrived at Andrews Air Force Base on Air Force Cargo Plane No. 612373 (C-130-E), which plane was assigned to the 78th Air Transport Squadron from Charleston Air Force Base and piloted by Captain Thomason. The plane was taxied to a point just off of Runway 1028, approximately 100 yards from the Control Tower at Andrews AFB, and a security cordon was placed around the aircraft while these vehicles were being unloaded. On the plane accompanying these vehicles were Special Agents Kinney and Hickey. The Presidential vehicles were driven under escort to the White House Garage at 22nd and M Streets, N.W., Washington, D.C., arriving at approximately 9:00 P.M. SS-100-X was driven by SA Kinney, accompanied by SA Taylor, and SS-679-x was driven by SA Hickey, accompanied by Special Agents Keiser and Brett. On arrival, SS-100-X was backed into the designated parking bin and SS-679-X was parked a few feet away. A plastic cover was placed over SS-100-X and it was secured. The follow-up car, SS-679-X, was locked and secured. Special Agents Keiser, Brett, and the reporting Special Agent effected security, assisted by White House Policemen Snyder and Rubenstal. At 10:10 P.M., Deputy Chief Paterni, ASAIC Boring, and representatives from Dr. Burkley's office at the White House, William Martinell and Thomas Mills, inspected SS-100-X. At 12:01 A.M., November 23, 1963, the security detail was relieved by Special Agents Paraschos and Kennedy and White House Policeman J. W. Edwards. At 1:00 A.M., as per arrangements by Deputy Chief Paterni, a team of FBI Agents examined the Presidential limousine. This team was comprised of Orrin H. Bartlett, Charles L. Killian, Cortlandt Cunningham, Robert A. Frazier, and Walter E. Thomas . Mr. Orin Bartlett drove the Presidential vehicle out of the bin. The team of FBI Agents, assisted by the Secret Service Agents on duty, removed the leatherette convertible top and the plexi-glass bubbletop; also the molding strips that secure the floor matting, and the rear seat. What appeared to be bullet fragments were removed from the windshield and the floor rug in the rear of the car. CO-2-34,030 Page 3 The two blankets on the left and right rear doors were removed, inspected, and returned to the vehicle. The trunk of the vehicle was opened and the contents examined, and nothing was removed. A meticulous examination was made of the back seat to the car and the floor rug, and no evidence was found. In addition, of particular note was the small hole just to the left of center in the windshield from which what appeared to be bullet fragments were removed. The team of agents also noted that the chrome molding strip above the windshield, inside the car, just right of center, was dented. The FBI Agents stated that this dent was made by the bullet fragment which was found imbedded in the front cushion. During the course of this examination, a number of color photos were taken by this FBI <"FBI" inserted in longhand with an arrow> search team. They concluded their examination at 4:30 A.M. and the President's car was reassembled and put back in the storage bin. At 8:00 A.M. on November 23, the security detail was relieved by Special Agents Hancock and Davis and White House Policeman J. C. Rowe. SA Gonzalez relieved SA Hancock at Noon and at 4:00 P.M., Messrs, Fox and Norton, Protective Research Section, photographed the Presidential limousine. At 4:30 P.M., SA Gonzalez contacted SAIC Bouck and Deputy Chief Paterni and, at their request, the flowers, torn pieces of paper, and other miscellaneous debris were removed from the floor of the car (SS-100-X) and taken to the Washington Field Office. At that time, the special detail securing the Presidential limousine and the follow-up car was discontinued. DISPOSITION This case is closed with the submission of this report. CET:mkd Below 1...the photo taken at Parkland.....enlarged showing hit... 2......Altgens 7....showing hit....from a different angle.....does the W/H garage photo show the same damage as in Altgens 7...or is it larger......?? 3...Photo taken at the W/H garage showing a frosted hit, to windshield... 4...Windshield hit, W/C CE 351 5....HSCA FIRS_CE 251_showing hit.......( the driver's stain on the right...not positive right now, I think that it was coffee....) 6: As to some who may say that people were not allowed to view the Limo, while at Parkland .....this is just one of the many, showing a few of the many people in that area that continually did so.... 7.....Another showing the visor turned down over the damage.... 8....Showing possible direction of the shot......from the overpass area..... 9::Bullet fragments shown.....""..In addition, of particular note was the small hole just to the left of center in the windshield from which what appeared to be bullet fragments were removed."" 10...As far as I know, this is the Photo taken by Robert Groden at the National Archives as the windshield appears today, they would not allow him to examine. FYI...... B.........

A couple of more errors within Pamela's information... From Post # 24 Jul 2 2008 Quote Peter Lemkin: " It seems hard for me to believe people would say they saw a hole [as oppossed to a crack] had they not seen one. The fact that people put it in slightly different places is not surprising. Perhaps there was even both a crack and a hole. Quote Pamela McElwain: There was a lot of confusion at PH at that time. The limo was only there for about 1/2 hour. During some of that time it was cordoned off. The witnessess were communicating what they believed they saw. What they actually did see may be something different." About a 1/2 an hour. Not..... Commission Document 80 - Secret Service Report of 06 Jan 1964 re: Presidential Car After the official party left the hospital , SS 100-X was driven to Love Air Field .................see below.... http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=10482 Ira David Wood Chronology.......... 12.43 pm...The motorcade arrives at Parkland Hospital..... 1.26 pm .........With heavy guard, Police Chief drives Lyndon Johson to Love Field, where he boards Air Force One.. 2.04 pm The presidential limo leaves Parkland Hospital, driven by SSA GeorgeW.Hickey, Jr. and a Dallas police officer. 2.08 pm..After a heated argument between Dallas officials and Secret Service men , the body of JFK is removed from Parkland Hospital almost at gun point... The JFK Assassination Chronology: 22 November 1963 http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v2n1/chrono2.pdf The JFK Assassination Chronology: 19 January 1961 to 21 November 1963 http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v2n1/chrono1.pdf Quote Pamela McElwain: There was a lot of confusion at PH at that time. The limo was only there for about 1/2 hour. During some of that time it was cordoned off. The witnessess were communicating what they believed they saw. What they actually did see may be something different." I would like someone, Pamela ?? anyone to post one photo where the Limo was cordoned off at Parkland.......One..? I can show your numerous photos of the Limo at Parkland, around the limo there was no tape...it was never cordoned off..... There was further out towards the street area ....but not around the limo.... From Post # 24 Jul 2 2008 Quote Peter Lemkin: " It seems hard for me to believe people would say they saw a hole [as oppossed to a crack] had they not seen one. The fact that people put it in slightly different places is not surprising. Perhaps there was even both a crack and a hole. Quote Pamela McElwain: There was a lot of confusion at PH at that time. The limo was only there for about 1/2 hour. During some of that time it was cordoned off. The witnessess were communicating what they believed they saw. What they actually did see may be something different." Lordy your just like the rest of them thar kind.........The witnesses were always in error........Not... B...... ...

From: NPRINCE9@juno.com To: pamelamxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:20:55 -0500 Subject: misinformation Pam I seem to be getting the idea that you think I might have been looking at the Queen Mary instead of the bubbletop-----------NO WAY I know each one when I see them--the limo was the one that I saw and when I went in, it was not completely covered--It appears some one else had been looking at it. This I know for certainty--I DID talk with Bill Greer on W. Ex. ave. and he DID say that bullets were coming from everywhere and I DID see a T and T hole in the windshield. After all there years I could be a little off as to the EXACT spot--but it WAS there. Whatever you have written down--I give you the correct version. Nick Neither the Queen Mary nor the "Sheik" Jackie's smaller limo, had a "Continental" on the back, there was no mistaking the 100 XP...... ""The Second Kennedy Lincoln Limousine Perhaps because the Presidential Limousine Ford and Hess and Eisenhardt developed for President Kennedy was so well-received, and its presence gave Ford a place of prestige, soon after the delivery of SS-100-X, a second, shorter version was designed. This car became one of two used by Jackie Kennedy (the other was a 1961 Crown Imperial Ghia, built by Chrysler and the Italian coachbuilder Ghia). The custom-built 1962 Lincoln Continental Town Limousine was also developed in conjunction with Hess and Eisenhardt, and one was of only three such coversions they did; one of those was assigned to Mrs. Edsel B. Ford, and the second was placed in Ford’s New York office for use transporting VIPs. The Secret Service designation for the second Lincoln was SS-297-X. 297-X had a 123-inch wheel base, as opposed to the 156-inch wheel base of 100-X. It was not armored. It had a plexiglass and metal top and a permanent privacy window. There was also a black vinyl top stored in the trunk, that could be used when a private car was desired. 297-X was the only one of the three Lincolns that had a bubbletop, and because of that was referred to as the “small bubbletop”. The interior of 297-X was black in the front and light blue on the back. It was fitted with an intercom system, a permanent glass privacy window, two-way radios, a siren and custom red lights built into the front bumper guards. 297-X bore a striking resemblance to 100-X from the front (see photo 1). However, it did not have the Continental tire on the trunk, so the two cars looked quite different from the back. (see photo 2). 297-X is also discussed in Ford Company documents; most of the mystery of this car will come from those documents, the presentation of which belongs to the researcher who first brought them to my attention, Mike Johnson. The information I am presenting comes from the book Presidential Cars and Transportation by William Siuru and Andrea Stuart, Kause Publications, Iola, WI, 1995. According to Siuru, 297-X was ultimately sold at auction and since 1985 has been on display at the Imperial Palace Auto Collection in Las Vegas, Nevada. "" B......

***************************************** From Post # 72... Pamela : In addition, the FBI photos, Ferguson Memo, and windshield currently at NARA support the fact that the windshield in the car at the time of the FBI exam was the same one kicked out by the Arlington Glass men on Monday, Nov. 25, 1963. So Nick's statements would be relevant only if the windshield was replace between the time he saw the limo and when Robert Frazier's team photographed it. No not on November 25th......November 26th........see below...... B.....

Pamela : Quote : Now you seem to be trying to cobble together information about Nick and the Michigan man, again without any foundation for a connection. Aw I see, the old much-used tactic: ignore it, or finesse it, and eventually it will go away, you hope.You have tried many times to divert the information within this thread, by your whatever meaningless comments, that do not pertain to what was previously posted..no use, much more information is out there, now, and will remain so.. Also seeing what you have posted above imo makes no sense.........and is another windmill, to try to confuse the readers with your minutiae ? and making sure that all aware, I will clarify for you, one more time....seeing you pretend to not get it.. The one connection, as you are extremely aware of, unless?? that does connect all these people, and has been stated in this thread several times now, and that you have deliberately ignored, is that Nick Principe, Richard Dudman. Stavis Ellis, Dr. Evalea Glanges, H. R. Freeman, Charles Taylor, Jr., as well as others......agreed in their information given, with George Whitaker's information given, and they were un-beknownst to him , and he to them, those witnesses being spread all across the U.S......Now posted for the upteenth time, I do hope that is finally clear...to you ?? See and read Also.. Repeat : THE SMALL HOLE JUST TO THE LEFT OF CENTER .. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=14 As the documentation above is from within the SS Gov, report and does state the above information, and that is after all where Ferguson is also mentioned within..And you have seemingly bought into and believe every word of the Ferguson information within said docs...including all five errors found within it, by the HSCA. ..So why would you take just such heed of Ferguson's information and not all the rest ????? What the Ferguson document shows and points out within the other information of the SS, FBI Limo reports, is that that there is an untrustworthy, fragmented, papertrail.....leading to conspiracy into which some have delved further, and uncovered new information within....and have put it out there for any and all.....and they continue to do so...they do not sit back on their supposed laurels, nor do they seeminlgy quit...some do carry on....they appear to be very aware the search in not over...the W/C was a cover-up and the Gov was behind it and all was a farce.. Why you have continually tried to pretend you have not read the information, nor comprehended, nor reply to it, but continually have picked at straws, or cherry picked as you have accused others of doing, in this thread.....and that is known as a diversionary pretence that simply does not and has not worked...and will not...and is of no credit to you...is known only to you... Pamela: Quote : "Instead of tossing out unconnected documentation and attempting to criticize me in the process I have not attempted to criticize you or your none information ...there has been no need to...your Ferguson document and it's information within, is extremely questionable.........I have posted much information, which you have and continue to ignore, I have asked many questions pertaining to such, you also have continually ignored. which has become your usual stance...and continually try the ole windmill tactics, that one more time, that has worn itself out........Why have you not answered any questions.......?? You and others have touted yourself as being the Limo Expert...within the research community, if you do not have the answers ,is it because you have been ignoring all the information that does not fit in with your theory re Ferguson all these years, by choosing only agree to that which fits within with the Govs....as does Ferguson's.......or did you simply not know of it.....?? and yet that does not fly, as you have made remarks against those that have released such. ....Why have you not kept up with the new studies?, it would appear that you have pretended that it does not exist...and make snide remarks at others who have done so, that never works, it only creates interest.....eventually it all does come out, you cannot stop it, no one can, the Gov have tried to but they have not been able to keep those that wish to know all the truth, blocked out....not completely...........the work goes on.. Why does it appear that your information only appears to back up the findings of the W/C....no conspiracy...imo.. I have posted some substantial evidence within this thread....which does support the statements made....which you have continually chosen to ignore.. You really have been presenting yourself as having a comprehension problem, and are admitting and selling yourself short by that ploy......imo.. Pamela , you have named called and criticized from the very beginning of this thread, and seeminlgy brushed aside others, would you really like me to list them all for you....?? to refresh your memory, ?? ...there are many...or could it be that you do not like the taste of your own medicine?? Pamela : Quote ""who don't you share a copy of the first version of the at that time mystery witness statement. This is the version from the taped interview, prior to the subsequent cherrypicking/sanitizing in MIDP and in "Smoking Guns". "" This is another windmill, trying to divert, the thread, it has gotten so old, and so worn out now....give it up....... Most of the interview was in MIDP........ Nigel Turner had the full tape and took out what he wanted. Nothing substantive was deleted. ........So contact Nigel......and ask him......rather that take any-ones word on such........and do post his reply..... Why did you never interview these people, like Hess, the workers ,or Ellis, Glanges?. Which also has been asked in the past of you.....and you have continually ignored....and diverted from.....? .......You did interview Nick, there is a tape . The many e-mails that have been posted demonstrate exactly what Nick thought of what you call your "interviewing technique." You have suggested, you did interview Ferguson....why do you not share a copy of that discussion?? A wise person once said that if the facts are on your side, you pound the facts, but if the facts are not on your side you pound the law. But if neither is on your side, you pound the table. Is your table dented yet.....?... Cheers.. .B........

Pamela: Quote : By your own admission you have no evidence tying a man in Michigan to the Presidential Limousine. Any discussion of documentation that you intend to try to make relative to this man first needs to be preceded by documentation of a connection. Surely you can see that? Otherwise, you're just tilting at windmills. See below Pamela: Quote : Although I explained the research process I use to Nick before interviewing him, he apparently did not understand it. I don't 'believe' or 'disbelieve' witnesses, as many others tend to. I do what I can to present the information Pamela : Quote: I don't 'believe' or 'disbelieve' witnesses, as many others tend to. ..........No you did not, you did not believe Nick, nor do you Whitaker ...and If this was true ? Why have you stated in this discussion that Nick "thought he saw a hole" and then tried to persuade him he was mistaken by what vehicle he saw it in. Which is obvious in Nick's posted emails.....You did try to disrespect him as per an e-mail in which he scolds you from trying to demean the U.S. Park Police and then suggests he was not working that evening. see below.....Then oddly you later admitted that you simply could not verify that he was working, so thus suggested he was not. ?? Pamela : I do what I can to present the information.. No you do not...... Why, if you are simply presenting information, and what is the reason it has been so difficult about correcting your website, for the past five years........ which still suggests that Whitaker is an unnamed man to so many unsuspecting readers........It is so odd that you are so critical of Whitaker's name not being revealed and now you can only refer to him as a "man from Michigan." George Whitaker, was a mid level manager and was in charge of the glass plant lab, he later became head of power services for the entire five plants and worked for Ford for over 30 years.....as he states in his interview on TMWKK.....It is easy to verify that and I am Pamela has.. George Whitaker is documented, as he left a letter as a testament because as much as he was afraid of what he knew ,he did not want the information to die with him,see TMWKK.... Limo to Detroit...part 2.........George Whitaker ..........BTW.....Pamela.........I have checked and nothing of your information was used within TMWKK I believe, for now, the Ferguson memo was legitimate and written by a "company man" as Willard Hess, one of the owners of the Hess & Eisenhardt Co. who built the ss 100 XP and did the rebuild...... described Ferguson who would do anything he was told to do and he was helping to create a deception between the Ford Motor Company and Secret Service to hide their involvement in the conspiracy, a deception that on its face would be embarassing to anyone examining the evidence...Mr.Hess also recalls that he was only contacted once by the W/C and asked a none important question..... Why would this Ferguson memo be kept secret ?....... It contains nothing dramatic or that suggests conspiracy but it raises eyebrows only because it is such a poor deception, and contains five errors within, that were pointed out by the HSCA Com....which is and has been presented is either disinformation, or deliberate misinformation and does not in anyway even remotely suggest a conspiracy....to the conspiracy research community.... You had the opportunity to talk to Ellis, (you now say in one post you did have a phone interview with him ) Glanges, and the man who knew more than anyone in the world about the limo, Willard Hess, but oddly never did so. All were easily accessable. I am not saying anyone should believe George Whitaker, I am saying, they should believe it to a high probability because 6 other witnesses, Richard Dudman. Stavis Ellis, Nick Prencipe, Dr. Evalea Glanges, H. R. Freeman, Charles Taylor, Jr., as well as others......agreed with his information given, and they were un-beknownst to him , and he to them, those witness being spread all across the U.S....... Ferguson's given information I am saying should Not be believed to a high degree of probability ,because it does not correspond with the SS Limo reports, and the HSCA official findings, found the SS Limo report in error ....in five places and all are errors pertaining to Ferguson's information.... and as far as is known, that information was not dealt with and was simply buried, as so much was within, when it simply did not agree basically with the W/C Gov findings..also his supposed testimony is not found within... and as Willard Hess describes Ferguson as a man who would do anything he was told to do and he was helping to create a deception between the Ford Motor Company and Secret Service to hide their involvement in the conspiracy.. The Limo Windshield, Bullet from Front Limo to Detroit, Part I TMWKK, The Final Chapter, ep.1 The Smoking Gun, seg.3 http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer..._type=&aq=f JFK Assassination, Presidential limo SS-100-X, part 5 Limo information begins with Dr.2 minutes ..Dr.Galanges......54 seconds into the video.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAW-bxxZfcM Limo to Detroit...part 2.........George Whitaker nprince9@juno.com wrote: Pam I have been going over some of the writings you have sent me, or posted in various areas, for others to see. I am rather surprised at some of the information you post, knowing your penchant for checking everything out to see if you agree with it, or if it has been verified in research.. You have posted that "the DC park police escorted the limo from Andrews AFB" There is no such organization as the DC Park Police. The law enforcement agency you are referring to is the United States Park Police. This is a federal police dept., not a municipal one. It is the senior law enforcement agency that was provided by the Congress, for the Federal city. It is a proud and elite group and shouild be entitled to proper addression by you and anyone else. Whenever we had the President under our escort security, we were not obliged to stop at the district line, but continued to whatever destination we were instructed to by the SS. If we had metropolitan police along, the juresdictional problem was covered. Our motorcycles had U S Govt. tags on them--Mine was US GOVT 1 MPD tags bore the DC insignia. Please make necessary corrections in your records and postings. If I can be of further assistance to you, I will do my best to assist you Have a nice day Nick Prencipe nprince9@juno.com wrote: Pam Been away for two weeks and had over 100 E mails on return. Snip......... With regards to the time element that apparently concerns you--you can be assured of one thing and I would testify before God as to its veracity. I DID SEE GREER AT THE WHITE HOUSE--WEST EXECUTIVE AVE. AND I DID HAVE CONVERSATION WITH HIM AS I HAVE STATED. As far as what is called evening --late evening or whatever--We put in a long day and night also and I was not checking my watch, nor did I have any reason to document my movements. I have been in both the secret service garage and the white house garage many times. I have never signed in or out in either place , any number of my men and have visited there many times and did not sign in either. The visit that evening was based on what Bill had described and all the little details you seem sure of are correct or incorrect--who knows--and who said what--based on what. I WAS THERE. So I wont push it any further, other than to verify what I have stated before Good luck to you Nick nprince9@juno.com wrote: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX I am sure that Pam will convince those who are of the same theory, > to begin with. I note that she takes things out of contex in that she keeps saying that I talked to Greer early in the evening. I never said that and incidentally, the evening runs to midnight. I dont really know exactly what time it was. If I looked at my watch that night, I knew the time, but that was a long time ago. I will also say, I have been in theW.H. many times and in the SS and WH garages many times and NEVER was I EVER asked to log in. She just cant believe that I guess. She seems to get more and more frustrated with time. Bill Greer, as I remember reading, did change his story, and eventually came up with all the shots coming from the rear--probably to keek in line with the Warren commission procedure. Who knows what went thru his head then--and later. I wont change my story, some of the facts are dimmed a bit, but basic facts are still the same. I will keep you advised of anything new I turn up. Have a great holiday. Regards Nick Commission Document 80 - Secret Service Report of 06 Jan 1964 re: Presidential Car ****************......SMALL HOLE JUST TO THE LEFT OF CENTRE.....************************* http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=14 Record Number 180-10099-10390 Agency File Number 002528 Originator-WC From: Taylor, Charles E. To: Date: 11/27/63 Pages: 4 Subjects: Kennedy, John, Autopsy Evidence, Medical Wound Ballistics USSS Date of release: 12/16/93 Contents: Secret Service Report dated 11/27/63 by Agents Charles E. Taylor, Jr. and Harry W. Geiglein on investigation of clues found in the Presidential limousine. Document follows in full. ORIGIN: White House Detail OFFICE: Washington, D.C. FILE NO.: CO-2-34,030 TYPE OF CASE: Protective Research STATUS: Closed INVESTIGATION MADE AT: Washington, D.C. PERIOD COVERED: November 22-23, 1963 INVESTIGATION MADE BY: SAIC Harry W. Geiglein SA Charles E. Taylor, Jr. TITLE OR CAPTION: Assassination of President John F. Kennedy SYNOPSIS This report relates to the measures employed to effect security of the President's car, 100-X, and the follow-up car, 679-X, on return from Dallas, Texas, following the assassination of President Kennedy. DETAILS OF INVESTIGATION This investigation was initiated on November 22, 1963, following receipt of instructions from ASAIC Floyd M. Boring, White House Detail, that steps be taken to effect security of the President's car (100-X) and the follow-up car (679-X) on their return from Dallas, Texas. President John F. Kennedy occupied the rear seat of SS-100-X when he was assassinated, and SS-679-X was directly behind the Presidential limousine at the time of the assassination. There two vehicles were driven to Love Field, Dallas, Texas, for immediate transportation to Andrews Air Force Base, Washington, D.C. Following the arrival of President Lyndon B. Johnson and the remains of President Kennedy at Andrews Air Force Base, the reporting Special Agents conferred with Captain Milton B. Hartenblower, Duty Operations Officer, and Lt. Colonel Robert Best, Provost Marshal, Andrews Air Force Base, to arrange for landing instruction of the Air Force cargo plane transporting the subject vehicles and to escort these vehicles from Andrews Air Force Base. Also, arrangements were made with the U.S. Park Police for motorcycle escort of these automobiles to the White House Garage. DISTRIBUTION: Chief Washington COPIES: Orig. & 2 cc 2 cc REPORT MADE BY: /s/ Charles E. Taylor, Jr. DATE: 11/27/63 Charles E. Taylor, Jr. APPROVED: /s/ Harry W. Geiglein DATE: 11/27/63 Harry W. Geiglein SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: Harry W. Geiglein CO-2-34,030 Page 2 At 8:00 P.M. on November 22, 1963, SS-100-X and SS-679-X arrived at Andrews Air Force Base on Air Force Cargo Plane No. 612373 (C-130-E), which plane was assigned to the 78th Air Transport Squadron from Charleston Air Force Base and piloted by Captain Thomason. The plane was taxied to a point just off of Runway 1028, approximately 100 yards from the Control Tower at Andrews AFB, and a security cordon was placed around the aircraft while these vehicles were being unloaded. On the plane accompanying these vehicles were Special Agents Kinney and Hickey. The Presidential vehicles were driven under escort to the White House Garage at 22nd and M Streets, N.W., Washington, D.C., arriving at approximately 9:00 P.M. SS-100-X was driven by SA Kinney, accompanied by SA Taylor, and SS-679-x was driven by SA Hickey, accompanied by Special Agents Keiser and Brett. On arrival, SS-100-X was backed into the designated parking bin and SS-679-X was parked a few feet away. A plastic cover was placed over SS-100-X and it was secured. The follow-up car, SS-679-X, was locked and secured. Special Agents Keiser, Brett, and the reporting Special Agent effected security, assisted by White House Policemen Snyder and Rubenstal. At 10:10 P.M., Deputy Chief Paterni, ASAIC Boring, and representatives from Dr. Burkley's office at the White House, William Martinell and Thomas Mills, inspected SS-100-X. At 12:01 A.M., November 23, 1963, the security detail was relieved by Special Agents Paraschos and Kennedy and White House Policeman J. W. Edwards. At 1:00 A.M., as per arrangements by Deputy Chief Paterni, a team of FBI Agents examined the Presidential limousine. This team was comprised of Orrin H. Bartlett, Charles L. Killian, Cortlandt Cunningham, Robert A. Frazier, and Walter E. Thomas . Mr. Orin Bartlett drove the Presidential vehicle out of the bin. The team of FBI Agents, assisted by the Secret Service Agents on duty, removed the leatherette convertible top and the plexi-glass bubbletop; also the molding strips that secure the floor matting, and the rear seat. What appeared to be bullet fragments were removed from the windshield and the floor rug in the rear of the car. CO-2-34,030 Page 3 The two blankets on the left and right rear doors were removed, inspected, and returned to the vehicle. The trunk of the vehicle was opened and the contents examined, and nothing was removed. A meticulous examination was made of the back seat to the car and the floor rug, and no evidence was found. ******In addition, of particular note was the small hole just to the left of center (Repeat : THE SMALL HOLE JUST TO THE LEFT OF CENTER ..B..)in the windshield from which what appeared to be bullet fragments were removed. ********* The team of agents also noted that the chrome molding strip above the windshield, inside the car, just right of center, was dented. The FBI Agents stated that this dent was made by the bullet fragment which was found imbedded in the front cushion. During the course of this examination, a number of color photos were taken by this FBI <"FBI" inserted in longhand with an arrow> search team. They concluded their examination at 4:30 A.M. and the President's car was reassembled and put back in the storage bin. At 8:00 A.M. on November 23, the security detail was relieved by Special Agents Hancock and Davis and White House Policeman J. C. Rowe. SA Gonzalez relieved SA Hancock at Noon and at 4:00 P.M., Messrs, Fox and Norton, Protective Research Section, photographed the Presidential limousine. At 4:30 P.M., SA Gonzalez contacted SAIC Bouck and Deputy Chief Paterni and, at their request, the flowers, torn pieces of paper, and other miscellaneous debris were removed from the floor of the car (SS-100-X) and taken to the Washington Field Office. At that time, the special detail securing the Presidential limousine and the follow-up car was discontinued. DISPOSITION This case is closed with the submission of this report. CET:mkd B...........

Working now... Jim Marrs Looks at the Dallas Police JFK Files http://www.sumo.tv/watch.php?video=366986 B......

""The member J.William King, on the forum was correct. It was the most distinct and easily recognized vehicle in the world by that date. "" B......

FYI.............I have attached the HSCA documents. You will note Astericks....on the last page..... ........ It is very interesting because every one of these note every discrepancy and they ALL relate to Ferguson and in those instances the ONLY support for Ferguson's position is Ferguson himself..... The other accounts do not mention him being there. A close examination will show even more discrepancies because of Ferguson.... I now think that the HSCA could have been very suspicious of Ferguson , as there is no record they tried to resolve those discrepancies. If there is information out there, I have not been able to find such, if anyone does have anything pertaining to, please post ....and share.... Some are so obvious like the discrepancy with the Garage logs, the Feruson memo could have been a cover because he knew the limo was in Michigan on November 25 the/63.....? It would be interesting to know if there was, as Rowley noted, a December 1 st memo. There is also an AP report that the limo was back in Dearborn just before the date of December 20 th. Also note the official H & E records showing the vehicle in Cinncinnati on December 13 th. It is remarkable that Ferguson, it seems was incapable of even getting one thing correctly. The weather reports for December 19 th and 20 th suggest there is no possible way the limo was driven from D.C. IMO......The member J.William King, on the forum was correct. It was the most distinct and easily recognized vehicle in the world by that date. Note: that the Ferguson memo actually adds nothing to the evidence of conspiracy.....not a hint, not one iota.........now that was his choice...and..... IMO this apparently is like Pamela. She has criticized Posner and da Bug , in everything I have been able to read by her, but she does not present any evidence of conspiracy.......and that is also her choice...... Also again, note that this document refers to Ferguson's testimony. There has been NO evidence that Ferguson testified at anytime or anywhere...... B......

*********** Hi Jack : A few more, some just part, as I am leaving any personal etc, out...not of anyone elses interest....and not related..... nprince9@juno.com wrote: I really dont concern myself too much about what Pamala says or thinks. I have met may like her Nick nprince9@juno.com wrote: Pam I am not comfortable with what you have written in the past about what I submit. You challenge every thing I submit and the basis for it is some documentation the at you rely on more than an eye witness. To attempt to correct only brings on a further barrage of questions and more challenge. I dont need it and I dont intend to continue it. Happy Holidays Nick *********************** From: NPRINCE9@juno.com To: pamelam XXXXXXXX Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:51:14 -0500 Subject: Re: misinformation Pam The limo was covered, but the front part over the hood and fenders was not completely covering--and this is to the best of my reccollection. I cant answer the question as to the plexiglass . I have no idea whether Bill talked with anyone else and whether they would still be alive. As far as what I have read that he testified to before the WC--It surprises me !!! I dont know if Greer had anything with him, was holding anything, or how he got to the WH. All I know is that he WAS there and that I DID talk with him. Let me make this observation, you are relying on reports that leave a lot of unanswered questions and we dont really know if they are true, considering all the contoversy that continues to be posted. I am in contact with some of my old men and I am still looking for facts that may be of importance and not hearsay. I could care less about whatthe SS documents say about where Greer was at any given time, I saw him as I have related and I talked with him as I have related . Nick **************************** From: NPRINCE9@juno.com To: pamelamxxxxxxxxx Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:20:55 -0500 Subject: misinformation Pam I seem to be getting the idea that you think I might have been looking at the Queen Mary instead of the bubbletop-----------NO WAY I know each one when I see them--the limo was the one that I saw and when I went in, it was not completely covered--It appears some one else had been looking at it. This I know for certainty--I DID talk with Bill Greer on W. Ex. ave. and he DID say that bullets were coming from everywhere and I DID see a T and T hole in the windshield. After all there years I could be a little off as to the EXACT spot--but it WAS there. Whatever you have written down--I give you the correct version. Nick B.........

Recent article on Greer: http://www.tyronetimes.co.uk/2617/Did-Stew...-JFK.4297701.jp ******************** Thanks Mike, for the article......there is much on the web about the Greer did it theory, it some do put much stock into it..I do not, but then that is just mo..... But there is also something new within ever article, book, whatever, and that is always appreciated..... Quote......Nick knew Greer and saw him..... Best B......

Some may be interested in Jim Marrs input after examing them... Jim Marrs Looks at the Dallas Police JFK Files http://www.sumo.tv/watch.php?video=366986 It appears not be working at present, I have reported it, perhaps it will be repaired soon.....? B..........

Bernice Moore' date Jul 7 2008, 10:40 PM Pamela would you publish the part of the White House Garage log showing that Arlington glass replaced the glass on November 25, as you stated in your posting and that the Ferguson memo claims. Pamela :Ferguson was off by one day. The windshield was replaced on Monday, Nov. 26th, 1963. Hopefully, you're not going to try to dispute that.[/size] YES, that ridiculous assertion is disputed because Monday was the 25th, not the 26th. and the garage logs clearly show the windshield was not replaced on Monday. That one day means much due to the account of George Whitaker. How could Ferguson have been so off in such close proximity to the events. since the 26th was on Tuesday. There are hundreds of reference pointing to the dates, including that Monday (the 25th) was the day of Kennedy's funeral. http://www.montva.com/calendar.php?ViewMon...&EventType= Interestingly, almost all businesses were closed that day, except lo and behold, the Ford Motor Company was one of the few that were not..... This lines up with Whitakers account. Almost nothing conforms to Ferguson's account except that it was a poorly done deception. . The SS report is also in error...as well as Ferguson....You will notice that the report has Sat as Nov.23rd which is correct...... But then Sunday becomes the 25th..nada it was the 24 th..... Then it goes on to say, the windshield was replaced on the 26th...which was Tuesday..... Better start tweaking that research of yours Pamela.... http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=4 Pamela :If this post is an example of your research process, it needs some tweaking, as you have fallen prey to the fallacy of false alternatives. ... B..........

Mark: You may be interested in these few links, re the Moschettieri...... Ritchson.... The work done by jerrymac shows the presence of at least two different rifles designated CE-139/C2766 and that one of them is a very rare ceremonial rifle known as a Moschettieri del Duce Carcano which was possibly smuggled into the US after WWII by General Walker who commanded a special forces battalion in Italy and who was in a position to recieve the surrender of the Gardia del Duce or Mussolini's Guard along with their ceremonial rifles. Also Jack White has produced evidence of 3 different rifles, two of them with distinctly different front sight blades, one of which is of a shark-fin configuration, while the other has what Jack calls a derby-hat configuration. http://www.angelfire.com/me/carcano/richards.html Carcano Model Identification http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/models.html An Assassination Rifle - the Fucile M 91/38 "C 2766" http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/c2766.html Carcano's http://translate.google.com/translate?sour...arcano91%2ehtml Below originally from Deanie's site.....Evidence black handle ? Carcano.....

Mark: Yes, I am following.........surprise..... From memory...groan...Been a long time... There is also infomation and I am having a look, that the rifle he LHO, Hidell, ordered was from the wrong month of the Rifle magazine, the rifle that he supposedly placed the order for was not advertised.. so ?? I know this is another ...but the M.O to pay for such, was received I believe a month too early for that particuar issue, re the rifle not being advertised for sale.. and the M/O was never deposited to any bank...this also leads to the scullduggery re Kleins, their records and the Agencies.... Just passing this along to confuse you all the more..... Are we having fun yet..... This may be the link you were searching for...... The Moschettieri Del Duce Carcano, LHO'S Alledged Murder Weapon and John'e information..... http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=126&t=2923 Please carry on, interesting...... B.....

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Second try......... Mark: I found a folder with whatevers concerning the rfile, here are a few.... some may be of interest to you..A few are Jack White's work....... B.....

Det Paul Bentley and Det.LC Graves were bro in laws.. In another write up........Bentley's grandson related that Bentley woud tease Graves that he had caught LHO and that Graves let him be shot.... Graves is seen below on the right, with Det.Jim Levealle, leading LHO out to his death... Bentley with the cigar......and Det.Gerald Hill , the man who was everywhere, on the right...... B.....

********************** What you have left out is that you were trying to coerce Nick Principe into saying he saw a hole in another vehicle, not the limo... ...Actually the hole was on the left side....What existing info on Greer ?.........Was someone following him around recording his movements.....? Nick knew Greer and saw him... From: NPRINCE9@juno.com To: pamel Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 07:18:41 -0400 Subject: Re: QUESTION Message-ID: <20000703.072039.-3702699.0.NPRINCE9@juno.com> Pam I will answer this in several parts First of all --If I had not been on duty--you can bet that I would have been on my way home. I was at the command post all evening and was in contact with my excort men at Andrews AFB--I was aware of every thing that was taking place--from that distance--it was only in ref to what my boys were doing. During the period that I was there--and this was not too long after the plane had brought the family back, I noticed Bill standing in the street--west executive ave--only about 50-60 feet or so from me. I went to him and we shook hands and thats when he made his statement to me. I resumed my activity and I heard the transmissions re the escort of the limo to the garage. Later--and I cant pin it down to any specific minute, I went to the garage--it was not that far away. There were still some people around and I just walked in--nobody stopped me or paid any attention to me--all those guys in the SS and State dept. etc knew me and were used to me being in many places at many times. From the best of my rec. there was someone else interested in seeing that w shield and we saw it together and there WAS a hole in it.................. Nick B...

David G. Healy' date='Jul 15 2008, 03:08 AM' Quote :Pamela said: In Nick's interview with me he gave a position for the hole he thought he saw. In his subsequent interview with Weldon he could not recall a location. Nick "thought" he saw? This the same Nick Prencipe that belonged to JFKResearch up to the time he died? Washington D.C. cop? Who also knew SA Greer, this the same guy your talking about? And so we get this right, did you interview Nick or did he interview you? When and where did this interview take place? Thanks Pamela Quote : I interviewed Nick Prencipe by phone in March of 2000. ************************* From: NPRINCE9@juno.com To: pamelam@xxxxxxxxx Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 08:06:01 -0400 Subject: Re: reply Message-ID: <20000707.080612.-3697521.1.NPRINCE9@juno.com> Pam I try to be as helpful as I can, but I am a bit upset at some of the choice of words I note from time to time. When you state that you will follow up and see what makes sense, I dont follow this line of thinking. I knew the limo when I saw it, I sure saw it many times and even sat in it. There was someone else in the process of lifing the tarp from its partially lifted position, as I recall. And I did see a bullet hole, so if there was a bullet hole, or damage to another one of the cars, there is a new track to follow. I do not remember what time I got home that night, or the next morning, I have no idea what time it was. My interest in ALL available facts in this are similar to others, I weigh whatever I see, hear or read for my own judgements, something I have been doing for the most part of my 84 years. I was not aware that you were writing a book on this. so I can wait for some the queries I made. Regards NICK B......

Hi Peter : There are the .......Three on Johnson......then scroll and go to each of the Final Chapter episodes... there are several...... Those and the LBJ are all now what are missing.......or so they thought..... Yes I was remiss, thank you Gil ....for enabling all....as well as the many others you have provided....they are very appreciated... You are all very welcome.. B.....