Bernice Moore

Jack,

In the bottom photo that I have just posted, the man like, is there this is the top photo in the book...

I have no idea if any work on it has been done......will post the two tomorrow, for a better look.

If anyone as I state it is either Ed or Bob, taken around 92 ish.....but the impression given is..

"Jack :I have never seen it. There

are two men by the signal box. "

Miles: "Yes, Jack, there are two men. Oh yes... Remember Ed's sniper's assistant?"

What gets me is that this info, has been taken, and you have been given the impression that it was

taken that day.........And some people wonder why, others simply stop, posting their work and contributing

....shame, damn shame..

Best B.....

It appears as if the train Miles pointed out was not moving, so even if...

Duke

You are correct & the masked man ( ) was in error.

LOS:

and the sight:

First...you have the wrong line of sight for Hoffman; he was farther north, by the rr bridge.

Right you are, Jack. That's somebody else's LOS, not Ed's. Oh no... A hint: His name ends in "y".

Second...where on earth did your second photo come from?

Many chambers, Jack, many chambers...

I have never seen it. There

are two men by the signal box.

Yes, Jack, there are two men. Oh yes... Remember Ed's sniper's assistant?

Please post the entire uncropped unmarked photo and

give us its provenance.

I shall try to comply with your request.

Thanks.

Jack

******************

All:

No, Miles there are not two men by the RR Box..taken the day of the assn by any means..and that is the impression

that you have tried to give...imo........In the photo I posted.......

.........It is my photo Jack, that I posted on this F some time ago,

Miles, I am extremely disappointed in YOU.....In fact I am completely p.......... off and that takes a lot..FYI..

You have taken a photo that I posted, with some information from the book.....and are manipulating it..

Here Jack is what Bob says in his book....about the photos taken......

"Triangle of Fire "by Bob Goodman, released in 1993.........and the photo.......He Took with Ed, one day, when the entire

billboard had been taken down, and the opportunity presented itself, to take a photo, from approximately the area where

Ed had stood....Ed took Bob to that approx spot, left him there, and then Ed went around, to the area and re-enacted the movements

of the men he had seen.."" Bob Goodman : Without any visual assistance, I could easily see with the naked eye every move he

went through, and I realised that he had indeed , had a perfect view of the area behind th stockade fence.""

"We, exchanged locations, and Mr.Hoffman took several photos of me behind the fence as I re-created the movements of the men

behind the fence which he had demonstrated to me .We were very fortunate to get the photos we did, because the billboard

went back up the next day, early in the morning and it never came down again..The view that Mr.Hoffman had at the time of the

assassination could only be seen in the photograph we had taken that day, but it was enough to prove the point.."

At the time I copied the work, my scanner was not working properly a few years ago, that is the how I know it is mine...

since then I have a new one....Tomorrow,

Jack, I will scan anew, there are two photos, for a much better copy.....

Now Miles, I have enlarged the one photo, that you have copied, and it does not show what you have implied,

behind the fence...being taken the day of the assn....

I would like an explanation.....I do not spend my time typing out information, and copying photos, and then post such when

I see that someone may appreciate such...and it may help in anyway ......

....But I Certainly object , when I believe such is being or has been abused, or altered in any way.....or they try to

manipulate such in anyway, to what they believe may fit into their scenario........

This below is what I posted, along with the photos.......as I did that day when first posted

along with an enlarged version .....If there is a man in the photo, is either Ed or Bob Goodman, taken a year or so, perhaps, a couple

before 1993.......not any man the day of the assn..

Stop playing games......

The Ed Hoffman Site..

This is from "Triangle of Fire" the Bob Goodman story....and what became a friendship

with Ed Hoffman.

"One afternoon, Bob was on the steps of Dealey Plaza, near where Zapruder had made

the film, and he saw a man standing behind the stockade fence watching him.

In looking in his direction the man, smiled and waved as if he knew him.

Since Bob felt he could not be sure about anyone at the grassy knoll, he ignored him

at first. Then glancing over his shoulder the man waved again..So Bob walked up closer

to the fence, thinking he may want to ask him something.

The man nodded and smiled, and Bob felt there was something different about this

man..and was drawn towards him..as Bob approached him the man looked over his

bifocals, and pounded his index finger on his chest, he then slowly moved his finger

the the corner of his eye and pointed to Elm St...He spoke not a word, and they stared

at each other .Ed wrote on Bob's notepad his name, and that he had seen what had

happened the day of the assassination. John had heard about him....

Ed had seen someone behind the stockade fence on the grassy knoll with a rifle when

the President was shot. Through sign language and written notes they communicated,

and Ed told John his story.

On the afternoon of Nov.22/63, he had been on his way to a dental appointment when

he remembered the President was coming to town. As he drove he had seen people

waiting alongside the motorcade route in Dealey Plaza. He passed over the overpass and pulled his car to the shoulder of the road. He waited near the Stemmons Freeway overpass bridge. His location was west of Dealey Plaza where the freeway bridge crossed Elm St.

From this position, he has a good view, not only of the street, but also of the area behind the stockade fence on the Grassy Knoll. Ed said he had seen a man in a dark blue suit coat and a fedora-style hat with a rifle behind the fence. He said the man had run with the rifle and had pitched it to another man who appeared to have broken the rifle down or to have taken it apart, behind a large, silver-colored railroad switching box located near the corner of the fence, near the railroad overpass bridge. The man wearing the black fedora had then run back along the fence for a short distance, and then he had started to walk casually across the parking lot.

As the President's convertible limousine drove down Elm St. and toward the freeway just seconds later, Ed saw the aftermath of the assassin's bullets. He saw the blood and the agony and the damage to the President’s head. He knew that something terrible had happened.

Ed communicated with his close friends and family what he had witnessed and had even reported it to the authorities. The results were a lack of interest and a warning to forget about what he had seen. His story remained fairly well secret until the summer of 85 when he shared his eyewitness account to veteran researcher and writer Jim Marrs, who also, on occasion visited the Dealey Plaza area.

Mr. Hoffman explained that there now is a large billboard that now blocks the view that he had on Nov.22/63 and this created a problem. It was impossible to take a photograph

of the view that he had seen that afternoon from the overpass area. The billboard was twelve to fifteen feet lower and almost at ground level on the day of the assassination.

Every two or three weeks, Ed would drop by Dealey and visit Bob Goodman , and it was on one of these visits that as they walked over to the train tracks,as they stood looking at the back of the billboard, he showed Bob where the metal posts that supported the sign had been extended. The metal beams had indeed been welded and lengthened thus raising the billboard twelve to fifteen feet from it's original position. It was frustrating to Ed to try to explain his story without showing him his direct viewpoint. Later Bob discovered a photo taken the day of the assassination showing the billboard at ground level. It confirmed Mr. Hoffman’s claim of the position as being a fact.."

Thank you......

B.....

P.S....I have edited the info from Bob Goodman's book, I had his name as John is two places....this has been corrected....

The bulge under the left side of his suit coat is reminiscent of the protrusion under the infamous white windbreaker, isn't it?

Has anyone looked into the sizes and shapes of low frequency, portable communication devices available at the time?

Robert Morrow wrote about providing LF units for the Dealey Plaza operation.

***************

Charles here are a few to ponder over....the smallest is from the Altgens..

B...

Bill:

You have personally met Ed Hoffman, could you tell me approximately how tall

he is..

Thanks B..

From memory - about 6' tall Ed was - give an inch or two possibly. I am 6'1" tall and I do not recall Ed being taller than I am.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Thanks Bill....appreciated...B

Bill:

You have personally met Ed Hoffman, could you tell me approximately how tall

he is..

Thanks B..

Thanks, Bernice. The men clearly are behind the fence, with their

waists above the top of the five foot fence. The odd circular shape

seems to perhaps be an open umbrella. The darker figure is in

the badgeman position. Towner 2 is so soon after the shooting

that it is odd that these people got there so quickly unless they

were already behind the fence. If you have ever been there, you

know that to be that high above the fence, YOU HAVE TO BE

STANDING ON SOMETHING ABOUT TWO FEET TALL.

Jack

Your welcome:

Fence height as seen from the Zapruder pedestal....

Also from when the tests were being made re the DPD Radio Tapes,you can see the height of the men, in comparison...

They would need to be standing on something...in the photo you have shown...imo

B.....

However, the elevated men are definitely behind the fence.

Jack

Jack,

If one lightens the photo - they will find that the two mens dark outlines block out the lighter tones of the fence, thus they are standing between the wall and the fence. (see below)

Bill

************

Hi......Jack.....

B.......

Tosh is 70 this year.....

His daughter's name is Leslie, and she posted about her Dad's day in Dallas at times..

Tosh was on and then left and she did shortly after...Tosh had been on the F at least a

couple of times....previously.I believe.

Leslie did not post a great deal if I recall correctly...she had been on before

when her son was very ill, she left, the boy died..She then came back again,

after time had passed...along with Tosh...

The other womans name was Laura...she was trying to prove that her father

was possibley there in Dallas with the FBI, in the recreation photos...I have no idea if

her site is still on the web.

Here is the article on Tosh from last year.......six pages I do believe.

Cocaine Airways

A former CIA pilot says secret flights to El Toro could explain a Marine officer’s ‘suicide’

By NICK SCHOU

Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 3:00 pm

http://www.ocweekly.com/news/news/cocaine-airways/25835/

B......

In all the years of studying the Towner photo, I had never noticed

two important discoveries I just made. Bernice...please post image

here.

Jack

***********

Better late than never Jack......

Best B.........

After seeing Chris's clear Bell gif, of Sitzman making a left turn to head towards the pergola entrance, and Zapruder walking over towards the hester's area.

I am now more convinced than ever, that Altgens 8 shows Sitzman and Zapruder standing near the pedestal as they are starting to walk.

Robin...I have asked Bernice to post my latest study which

I think will change your mind about the authenticity of

Altgens 8. After about an hour of looking at light and shadow,

I compared the same area in Wiegman and Altgens...and

ONE AREA POPPED OUT IN SUNLIGHT THAT IS SHADOWED

IN WIEGMAN. I think this is indisputable. Bernice....

Jack

Jack,

The matching parts of the colonnade are marked in red. Two views from different angles - you picked the wrong one is why they do not match.

Bill

WRONG. see new definitive study.

*****************

Jack.......

B.....

Rest In Peace......Tim....

B.

Robin...I have asked Bernice to post my latest study which

I think will change your mind about the authenticity of

Altgens 8. After about an hour of looking at light and shadow,

I compared the same area in Wiegman and Altgens...and

ONE AREA POPPED OUT IN SUNLIGHT THAT IS SHADOWED

IN WIEGMAN. I think this is indisputable. Bernice....

Jack..

Here ..Jack.....

B....

Did you know that researchers have made great efforts to locate the Hesters

without success? One wealthy researcher even resorted to a private eye.

For all practical purposes, the Hesters have vanished.

Jack

I think Charles Hester has been dead for a long time and that might explain why it has been so hard to find him.

Bill

*************

Mark Oakes tried to find Beatrice..

A neighbour had told him that Charles Hester died in 1967 and

that Beatrice had remarried.

She became Beatrice Green. Moved to Red Oak, a small town south

of Dallas..but he could not find her....

B.......

Miles: ""This puts the third man into the parking lot VERY quickly! Is this the man Bowers identified as wearing a white shirt?""

IMO no, as Bowers description was, "middle aged-fairly heavy set and wearing a white shirt and dark pants"

Could he have been the heavier set man in the suit, with his coat off.....??

The second man : Bowers " a white male in his mid 20's with a plaid shirt..".

Julia Ann Mercer : " White male, late 20's or early 30's wearing a grey jacket, brown pants and a plaid shirt"...

*****************

The third man, who appears to be thin, and youngish, the way he takes off up the stairs, is wearing a darkish, blue grey jacket ?,

and dark pants.....

His description also does not jive with Jesse C. Price's, who was on the roof of the Union Terminal Annex building, corner of Houston

& Commerce.....

That man he descriped as " young white male, wearing a white dress shirt with no tie and khaki coloured pants." .who ran from behind

the fence , where he thought shots had come from, .......the young man ran from the picket fence area into the sea of cars, with something

in his hands..

So imo no......

B......

J.C.Price...

VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86

SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT

COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS

Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Mr. J. C. Price, Address: 2602 Astor, Dallas, Age 62, Phone No. WH 1-1940. Bus. Terminal Annex, Gen. Service RI 8-5611, Ext 3105.

Deposes and says:

This day at about 12:35 PM I was on the roof of the Terminal Annex Bldg on the NE corner when the presidential motorcade came down Main to Houston, North on Houston and then West on Elm. The cars had proceeded west on Elm and was [sic] just a short distance from the Tripple [sic] underpass, when I saw Gov. Connelly [sic] slump over. I did not see the president as his car had gotten out of my view under the underpass. There was a volley of shots, and then much later, maybe as much as five minutes [sic!] later, another one. I saw one man run towards the passenger cars on the railroad siding after the volley of shots. This man had a white dress shirt, no tie and kahki [sic] colored trousers. His hair appeared to be long and dark and his agility running could be about 35 yrs [sic] of age. He had something in his hand. I couldn't be sure but it may have been a head piece. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

/s/ J. C. Price

Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963

/s/ [unintelligible]

Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/price.htm

Hi Duncan:

I think it is more than likely, the third man who was standing behind, Emmett Hudson

on the stairs.

and then proceeds to run up the steps, down the pathway and into the parking lot.

as shown in these Nix Gifs.....

B....

Beautiful work B.

This puts the third man into the parking lot VERY quickly! Is this the man Bowers identified as wearing a white shirt?

Was Hudson wearing a red shirt?

A question has to be: So soon after Z-313, why is not a surprised spectator rooted to the spot in incredulity? Why is he instantly running away?

Your thoughts, Duncan & Bernice?

******************

It looks more like a light coloured jacket....imo.

No Hudson has the light coloured cap on..light pants and dark jacket..

As Hudson states they all ran up the steps quickly, he mentions the fact that the shots seemed to be coming over their heads,

the third man runs up the steps, Hudson and the man in the red jacket got down..on the ground, as shown in the photos.

B.......

All Below FWIW....compare the Groden enhancement against the Nix Gif.....same shadow....imo

Emmett Hudson.....

Mr. HUDSON - Well there was a young fellow, oh, I would judge his age about in his late twenties. He said he had been looking for a place to park and he walked up there and he said he finally just taken a place over there in one of them parking lots, and he come on down there and said he worked over there on Industrial and me and him both just sat there first on those steps. When the motorcade turned off of Houston onto Elm, we got up and stood up, me and him both. He was on the left side and I was on the right and so the first shot rung out and, of course, I didn't realize it was a shot, what was taking place right at that present time, and when the second one rung out, the motorcade had done got further on down Elm, and you see, I was trying to get a good look at President Kennedy. I happened to be looking right at him when that bullet hit him - the second shot.

Mr. LIEBELER - That was when the bullet hit him in the head; is that correct?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it looked like it ht him somewhere along about a little bit behind the ear and a little bit above the ear.

Mr. LIEBELER - On the right-hand side or the left-hand side?

Mr. HUDSON - Right hand.

Mr. LIEBELER - Can you tell me approximately where the President's car was when you heard what you later figured was the first shot?

Mr. HUDSON - Well, the best I could get right off - I remember it was right about this lightpost right here.

Mr. LIEBELER - You are indicating the first lightpost on the right-hand side of Elm Street?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; coming off Houston, you see, there's a lightpost right there close to Houston Street, right there, just above this little crook right here.

Mr. LIEBELER - That lightpost doesn't show in the picture you have here?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; it doesn't show in the picture - it was about, I believe, where the first shot was fired.

Mr. LIEBELER - You think he was by the lightpost in this picture when the first shot was fired?

Mr. HUDSON - Right along there is about where President Kennedy's car was when he was hit - at the time I was looking right at him when the shot struck him, when the bullet struck him.

Mr. LIEBELER - How many shots did you here altogether?

Mr. HUDSON - Three.

Mr. LIEBELER - Three shots?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Are you sure about that?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - You say that it was the second shot that hit him in the head; is that right?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I do believe that - I know it was.

Mr. LIEBELER - You saw him hit in the head, there wasn't any question in your mind about that, was there?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - And after you saw him hit in the head, did you here another shot?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see that shot hit anything - the third shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President." He says, "Lay down, lay down." and he kept repeating, "Lay down." so he was already laying down one way on the sidewalk, so I just laid down over on the ground and resting my arm on the ground and when that third shot rung out and when I was close to the ground - you could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind.

Mr. LIEBELER - How could you tell that?

Mr. HUDSON - Well, just the sound of it.

Mr. LIEBELER - You heard it come from sort of behind the motorcade and then above?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I don't know if you have ever laid down close to the ground, you know, when you heard the reports coming, but it's a whole lot plainer than it is when you are standing up in the air.

Mr. LIEBELER - You were standing down here where we put the "X"?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - You say when the President was hit in the head he was up here by the first lamppost on the right-hand side of the post that shows in the picture?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; right along in here.

Mr. LIEBELER - That's when he got hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I think so.

Mr. LIEBELER - Are you sure about that?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir; I am.

Mr. LIEBELER - So you had to look up Elm Street?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I was looking up this way, you see. You see [indicating on photograph], that's the motorcade car right there isn't it?

Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; the picture that we are looking at here is a picture of a renactment of the scene.

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there.

Mr. LIEBELER - You think the last shot was fired and the car was about where it actually is in that picture when the third shot was fired?

Mr. HUDSON - Pretty close to it; yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you think the President had already been hit in the head by the time the third shot was fired?

Mr. HUDSON - He had been hit twice, so Parkland Hospital said. He was hit in the neck one time and in the head one time.

Mr. LIEBELER - When the first shot was fired, were you looking at the presidential car then; could you see it then?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it was coming around - it had just got around the corner,you see, from off of Houston Street, making that corner there, come off of Houston onto Elm.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did it look to you like the President was hit by the first shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I don't think so - I sure don't.

Mr. LIEBELER - You don't think he got hit by the first shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No.

Mr. LIEBELER - You say it was the second shot that hit him in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - What happened after the President got hit in the head, did you see what he did, what happened in the car?

Mr. HUDSON - He slumped over and Mrs. Kennedy, she climbs over in the seat with him and pulls him over.

Mr. LIEBELER - Pulled him down in the seat?

Mr. HUDSON - Pulled him over in her lap like.

Mr. LIEBELER - If you don't think the Presidentgot hit by the first shot and yoy say he got hit in the head with the second shot -

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - And if we assume that he was shot twice, you would have to say that he was hit by the third shot; isn't that right?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - He was hit again after he got hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think that could have been possible when Mrs. Kennedy pulled him over, do you think he could have got hit in the neck after he had been hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes sir; I do

Mr. LIEBELER - He was still sitting far enough up in the car he could have been hit?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you watch the President after he got hit in the head like that?

Mr. HUDSON - Well as soon as everybody realized what had happened, you know, everybody went to going up the hill so we did too.

Mr. LIEBELER - So you only saw the President hit once; is that right, sir?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir; I just saw him hit once.

Mr. LIEBELER - That was in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - And you aren't able to say from your own observation when he was hit in the neck?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - If he was hit in the neck.

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Could the car have actually been down here where it is in the photograph No. 18, could it have been that far down Elm Street - this is Elm Street that runs down here - right here - could the car have been that far down Elm Street when the President got hit in the head?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; no, sir, it wasn't that far down.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you see this little pedestal back up here?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Just above the "X" where you were standing?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see anybody standing up there that you can remember, durring the time the president went by?

Mr. HUDSON - Oh, there was a bunch of people in there, you know, a whole bunch of them - a lot of people in there - a lot of people in here.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you se anybody standing up there taking motion pictures with a movie camera?

Mr. HUDSON - Oh, yes; I seen people up there trying to get - taking pictures.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see a man with a movie picture camera?

Mr. HUDSON - Not in particular, I didn't. It was such an exciting time - now - I did notice a man back over here on this triangle.

Mr. LIEBELER - Standing across Elm Street?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - With a motion picture camera?

Mr. HUDSON - Well he had a camera - I don't know whether it was a motion picture camera or not, but he had a camera.

Mr. LIEBELER - I show you another picture which we will mark as Hudson Exhibit No. 1. I have put my initials on the back of the picture. Would you do that too so we can identify the picture before we start to talk about it, so we don't get confused?

Mr. HUDSON - You mean - put my name?

Mr. LIEBELER - Just your initials.

Mr. HUDSON - [Marked picture as requested.] Is that all right?

Mr. LIEBELER - Now, let's take a look at that picture, Mr. Hudson, and let me ask you if you can see in that picture, where you were standing?

Mr. HUDSON -(no response.)

Mr. LIEBELER - Now, this picture, Hudson Exhibit No. 1, has a sign in it that says "Stemmons Freeway, keep right." doesn't it?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Can you find that sign on the photograph No. 18 of the Commission Exhibit No. 875? The one that we were talking about before.

Mr. HUDSON - That's right here, I believe - right here.

Mr. LIEBELER - Now, that sign says, "R. L. Thornton Freeway, keep right." Where is the Stemmons Freeway sign in this picture? Can you see it in that picture at all - I can't.

Mr. HUDSON - I can't either - that isn't it - it's farther up this way.

Mr. LIEBELER - That's further back up and it's out of the picture?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - There are two signs in picture No. 18, one says, "R.L. Thornton Freeway, keep right." and the other one says, "Fort worth Turnpike, keep right."

Mr. HUDSON - There were two of them that wasn't too far apart right throught here - them signs was - one was right along in here and the other one was either further up, I guess. It's not in that picture - I don't believe. Now, they have moved some of those signs. They have moved the R.L. Thornton Freeway sign and put up a Stemmons sign.

Mr. LIEBELER - They have? They have moved it?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - That might explain it, because this picture here, No. 18, was taken after the assassination and this one was taken at the time - No. 1.

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it had to be right along in there - those steps have got to come down right along in here, if I see the picture right. Npw, this is Elm right here coming around like this - it comes over here and the steps begin right along up in there somewhere and come on down right here to the sidewalk, right along in there somewhere to where those steps is.

Mr. LIEBELER - So, that you think you were standing somewhere in the back left-hand part

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; this was taken at the present time - it happened - this picture was?

Mr. LIEBELER - Yes; this is an actual picture of the motorcade itself; yes sir. Let me suggest that the pictures are taken from different angles, referring to photograph No. 18 of Commission Exhibit No. 875 - there is a little concrete stand here in the very right-hand side of the picture.

Mr. HUDSON - That's just right along in here.

Mr. LIEBELER - That's right, and that appers in Hudson Exhibit No. 1 immediately to the left of the sign that says, "Stemmons Freeway, keep right." does it not?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; those steps are right along there between that concrete - the end of that concrete wall right there and that elm tree come between them - no, not an elm but that's a live oak tree - that's a live oak tree right there.

Mr. LIEBELER - And that's right off of the end of this concrete embankment there, there's a live oak tree there.

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Can you see yourself in that picture anywhere, can you mak yourself out?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I can't , unless it is one of these two men right here - I can't tell - if I had that picture that was taken in the Times Herald paper - I can show you myself in it.

Mr. LIEBELER - Which one is that?

Mr. HUDSON - Well, it was in the Times Herald paper the next morning after, I believe, after the assassination, maybe the evening after the assassination.

Mr. LIEBELER - Look at this picture.

Mr. HUDSON - [Examining picture referred to.] I don't know - if that's one of them men myself or not up there.

Mr. LIEBELER - I have shown you Commission Exhibit No. 203 and you are not able to point to yourself in that picture at any place. Actually, Commission Exhibit No, 203 shows a different area.

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir

Mr. LIEBELER - That's a picture from the front of the Texas School Book Depository Building and you wouldn't be in that picture, according to where you placed yourself by looking at Hudson Exhibit No. 1.

Mr. HUDSON - No; I wouldn't be in that at all - I know. If they had that picture that was taken - a fellow was shooting from across Elm up toward those steps here, that showed my picture in it, I believe. Now, I could be one of those men standing right there - I'm not for sure - I wouldn't say for sure that I was one of them or not, but I can't see it well enough to tell.

Mr. LIEBELER - In this picture here you see the car is going down Elm Street, isn't that right, referring to Hudson Exhibit No. 1?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - And it is just about to pass a sign that says, "Stemmons Freeway, keep right." Do you think that the President could have been hit when he was that far back up Elm Street?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - You do think that?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - And you heard another shot after that time?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you think, looking at Hudson Exhibit No. 1, do you think that is about the place where the president got hit in the head, or was it further back up on Elm or was it further down - if so - about where was it?

Mr. HUDSON - That's somewher pretty close.

Mr. LIEBELER - That's pretty close right there?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it's somewhere pretty close.

Mr. LIEBELER - After you heard these three shots and saw the president get hit in the head, you turned around and you ran up on the little knoll there and you got away.

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - While you were standing there, did you ever look toward the railroad tracks there where they went across the triple underpass?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; while I was laying there I didn't - I was looking down towards Elm Street.

Mr. LIEBELER - So, you never looked up towards the railroad tracks that went across the underpass?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you are quite sure in your own mind that the shots came from the rear of the President's car and above it; is that correct?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any idea that they might have come from the Texas School Book Depository Building?

Mr. HUDSON - Well, it sounded like it was high, you know, from above and kind of behind like - in other words, to the left.

Mr. LIEBELER - And that would have fit in with the Texas School Book Depository, wouldn't it?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you look up there and see if you could see anybody?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I didn't. I never thought about looking up that way, to tell you the truth about it.

Mr. LIEBELER - You were thinking about getting out of the way after things started?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; it was just such an exciting time, you know, a fellow thinks about a million things in one second there at that time.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see anybody standing around there any place with a rifle - on the grassy spot up there near where you were standing or on the overpass or anyplace else?

Mr. HUDSON - I never seen anyone with a gun up there except the patrols.

Mr. LIEBELER - The policemen?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Now, did you see anything else down there when this all happened that you think we ought to know about that I haven't asked you about?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; I don't know of anything.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see Govenor Connally - did you think Governor Connally had been hit?

Mr. HUDSON - Well, sir; I never noticed Governor Connally in the car. The first shot must have struck him and he had done fell over in the car when that happened.

Mr. LIEBELER - So that you didn't even see Governor Connally in the car at all?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't see him get hit by any of the shots?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - You are assuming that maybe he got hit by the first shot and fell down in the car.

Mr. HUDSON - That's right.

Mr. LIEBELER - And you saw the President get hit by what you heard as the second shot?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - How far apart were the shots spaced; do you have any recollection about that, how long did it take for all the shots to be fired and how far apart was one shot from the other?

Mr. HUDSON - Well they was pretty fast and not fast either. It seemed like he had plenty of time to operate his gun plenty well - when the shots were all fired.

Mr. LIEBELER - How much time do you think passed from the time the first shot was fired untill the second shot was fired, can you make any estimate about that?

Mr. HUDSON - Oh, probably 2 minutes.

Mr. LIEBELER - As much as 2 minutes?

Mr. HUDSON - It might not have been that long.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you thought he had plenty of time to get all of the shots off anyway?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever do any shooting?

Mr. HUDSON - Well, not no big rifle - I haven't ever done no shooting with no big rifle. I have shot shotguns - .22's and things like that.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did the shots seem evenly spaced or were some of them closer together?

Mr. HUDSON - They seemed pretty well evenly spaced.

Mr. LIEBELER - Evenly spaced; is that it?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did anybody talk toy uou at all about security arrangements prior to the time the motorcade came by, or was that all handled by the police?

Mr. HUDSON - That was all handled by the police.

Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't have anything to do with anything like that?

Mr. HUDSON - That's right - the fact of the business is, I didn't know they had been routed that way.

Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't even know it was going to go buy until they came?

Mr. HUDSON - That's right.

Mr. LIEBELER - Have you been interviewed by the FBI?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember who talked to you?

Mr. HUDSON - Not by name, I don't; no, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - And did you tell them approximately the same thing you have told me?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; approximately the same thing.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did the Secret Service talk to you, or the Dallas Police Department or the FBI?

Mr. HUDSON - The FBI and I made a deposition over at the courthouse - the same day that the assassination was.

Mr. LIEBELER - That was the Dallas Police Department or the sheriff's office?

Mr. HUDSON - The sheriff's office

Mr. LIEBELER - Okay Mr. Hudson, I want to thank you very much for coming in. I don't have any more questions.

Mr. HUDSON - Well, if it has been any help, I am glad it did.

Mr. LIEBELER - Pardon?

Mr. HUDSON - If it has been any help, I am glad to have come down.

Mr. LIEBELER - I think you have been and we are glad to have you cooperate with us in the way you have. I want to thank you very much on behalf of the Commission.

Mr. HUDSON - All right, good day.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/hudson.htm

B........

Hi Jack:

Here's the latest.......

B.....

Thanks, Bernice...that'll do. It is another version that Deanie used RATHER than

THE INVESTIGATOR ARTICLE, but it is DANDY for this purpose. I sent you page

one of the article....but this will do unless you'd RATHER post the image. Your call.

Jack

Jack

************

Dear Jack....

Well that was Rather nice of Deanie, wasn't it......I would really Rather have you

send me another Randy Dandy copy of page one, as I do believe...

That what you have sent has

decided it would Rather go to into the outer web..

space world.... as it has not arrived as yet, it is Rather late, in arriving...

B.....

I am attaching these images, hopefully these are what you have mentioned...

If you would Rather that I post another please re-send.......

Jack I had this article of yours from "Fairplay" 1994....re the 13 inch Heads..it certainly is not the full edition but will post,

if you find the original just send.....

No problem..to post...

Since I posted this photo of "You Know Who".. : ..on JFKresearch last evening, you sure have had fun with it..

Who would have thought..it is rather a dandy though, isn't it.....

Best B....

What's the Deal With 13-Inch Heads?

Copyright ©1994 by Jack White

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of my meager claims to fame is my discovery, in the Warren Commission volumes, of the peculiar alleged photo of Lee Harvey Oswald from 1956 at the time he completed Marine boot camp, standing against a height-wall chart marked in inches; the photo, which exists only as a poor Xerox copy, reveals that Oswald is 5'9" tall and has a HEAD THAT IS 13 INCHES TALL, with shoulders only 4'4" off the ground!

I pointed this out to the House Select Committee on Assassinations in the late 70s, and their "experts" performed amusing gyrations* to demonstrate that such a photo could actually be taken, but they did not address the question of WHY anyone would want to do so. They also "produced" an 18x24 "photo" exhibit (Vol.2, page 408) allegedly made from the "original negative" (which, however, they failed to produce), "proving" that such a photo existed. I examined the exhibit carefully at close range, and believe that it is probably a pencil rendering in the manner of Ida Dox. If they had the original negative (best evidence) as they claimed, it should have been entered in evidence! All this has been shown for years in my slide presentation, as well as my video "The Many Faces of Lee Harvey Oswald."

Over the years, a pattern has emerged which may give a clue to the "why" of the "Case of the 13-inch Head". A number of years ago at a bookstore, I glanced through a book about CIA flier Francis Gary Powers of U-2 fame. There in the photo section was an Air Force ID photo of Powers with a 13-inch head! I made a mental note of this, but unfortunately did not bother to buy the book. Recently I asked JFK researcher numero uno Mary Ferrell if she could locate the Powers photo, and of course it was in her vast collection. The book was "The Trial of the U-2", published in Moscow in the early 60s, and Mary sent me a Xerox of the photo.

Recently I also received from researcher Richard Bartholomew a service ID photo of George Wing, a man Bartholomew suspects of being an intelligence agent connected to the JFK case (see Bartholomew story immediately following this). He thinks Wing may have been the owner of a Nash Rambler station wagon seen in Dealey Plaza on November 22. Wing's ID photo is virtually identical to the Oswald photo. Both measure the subject at 5'9" with a 13-inch long head and shoulders at 4'4"! Comparison with the Powers photo shows the only difference is that Powers is shown to be 5'10" by the wall chart (although the typewritten height on the Powers ID card lists him at 5'9 1/4"!; also, Oswald typewritten Marine records list his height at 5'11"!). These three guys are depicted as grotesque circus freaks, with huge heads and shoulders close to the ground!

With such uniform depiction of 13-inch heads, one might suspect a common origin for these three photos. Not so. Oswald: Marine photo. Powers: Air Force photo. Wing: Navy photo. All were taken at different times. Obviously none of the photos is made with the subject standing with his back directly against the wall chart, or else all would show normal 9-inch heads, as Oswald does in his New Orleans arrest photo. Then why such a commonality? Surely not all service photographers are trained to uniformly show all subjects with 13-inch heads. I checked with Mike Tobey, a local friend who was in Oswald's platoon in boot camp at San Diego, and Mike commented that the photo's date corresponded with the end of their basic training, and that he did not remember such a photo having such a picture made of himself. He's going to search all his service papers and see if he can locate a similar photo.

I have tentatively concluded that ID photos of persons with 13-inch heads may be some sort of unique intelligence agency "marker" to subtly identify the bearer as an intelligence agent. Here we have Oswald, Powers and Wing, all with uniform 13-inch heads; and Powers is CIA, and Oswald and Wing are believed to have intelligence agency connections by many researchers. It is something which does not easily register with the observer unless you are looking for it (I had a copy of the Oswald picture on my office wall for many months until one night while working late it suddenly occurred to me to count the number of inches on the chart. I was stunned when I counted 13-inches as Oswald's head length!)

Can anyone else come up with other such photos? Do genuine service ID photos against wall charts (if actually taken of all service men) have genuine measurements? Or are all persons on special "intelligence" assignments purposely photographed with 13-inch heads to give them a special secret identification? What do you think?

* HSCA Chief Robert Blakey will not agree with me, but I found these to be "amusing gyrations" in their "experts'" study of the Case of the 13-Inch Head:

The purpose of photographing a person standing in front of a wall chart marked in inches surely is to show their height! Why even use a wall chart if it is meaningless?

The HSCA used a lot of phony information to speculate that all military photographers were widely and frequently inept. Their speculations presume that all such photos were made with the subjects standing at varying distances away from the wall chart with the camera at variable heights. The truth is that any reasonable amateur (and being a photographer in the military is a specialized professional job) would know to stand the subject directly against the wall chart with the camera at eye level to take a meaningful, accurate photo! How, then, were such inept photographers able to achieve such uniform 13-inch head sizes? Did the HSCA make a study of all the inept photos they found to determine if all "inept" photos depicted heads 13-inches in length, or were they various lengths?

The HSCA did not bother to reason why the military would bother to go to such unusual, improbable, illogical and difficult lengths to position the camera and subjects in such abnormal positions. Of what possible military use is a photo which shows a person to be 5'9" tall, with a 13-inch head, and shoulders 4'4" off the ground? Barnum and Bailey, maybe, but not the military.

The HSCA failed to produce other such inept photos, but published numerous "photo tests" which showed how it was possible to take such pictures.

The HSCA, as far as I know, did not make a study of intelligence ID photos.

They made no study that we know of regarding the 13-inch head phenomenon among all the armed services, such as we have demonstrated here.

They failed to produce the negative of the Oswald photo that they claimed they "found."

They failed to document the actual height of subjects who had such ID photos taken, to see whether the photos taken, to see whether the photos taken matched the actual measured heights.

******************************

Another 13-inch head...

Too Many Secrets: The Wing Enigma.

Copyright © 1994 by Richard Bartholomew

* * *

University of Texas Spanish and Portuguese professor George Gordon Wing is the focal point of a five-year investigation on which I gave an interim report in a self-published manuscript called Possible Discovery of an Automobile Used in the JFK Conspiracy. (see Fair Play, this issue.) The report began as a shorter research paper presented to the Second "Third Decade" Conference in Providence, RI, in June 1993.

It is extraordinarily difficult to summarize for those who are unfamiliar with it without sounding like a raving madman. Suffice it to say that after an additional year of research on my part, and input from the wider research community, the bottom line is that Dr. Wing, now deceased, was trying to communicate personal knowledge about the assassination of President Kennedy in the form of coded "messages in a bottle." The bottle in this case was a 1959, light-colored Rambler station wagon with a luggage rack on top which Dr. Wing purchased on April 26, 1963. Wing's profession, place of employment, car and its purchase date should adequately intrigue the well-read, uninitiated researcher. The real trail started when we learned that he bought the car from a very close friend of then Vice President and Mrs. Lyndon Baines Johnson.

Jack White wrote me in December 1993 after reading my manuscript. He said, "My hypothesis is that Dr. Wing was somehow associated with someone on the 'inside' of the conspiracy and privy somehow to some secret information. But he was probably afraid to go public, so he decided to encode a visual thought-provoking conundrum for the curious. It worked, because it interested you and your friends."

In the manuscript I reported that fellow UT professor John W.F. Dulles, son of John Foster Dulles, whose daughters Wing taught, inherited the family's Hanna Mining Company. After Jack wrote his perceptive hypothesis, I learned that in early 1964, the company's attorney was dealing with a crisis Hanna was having in Brazil. It was taking him away from another pressing matter. The attorney was John J. McCloy and the other pressing matter was the investigation of the murder of John F. Kennedy. The crisis resulted in McCloy attending very few Warren Commission sessions, and in Brazil's 1964 coup d'état.

Last February, I wrote a letter to Jack in which I enclosed a copy of George Wing's military personnel file and photo. I mentioned that I had just noticed the disproportionate head a few days earlier. Jack wrote back with his crypto-ID hypothesis (see previous story on 13-inch heads). While at the National Archives in April, I stumbled upon a study that was done for the HSCA. It was called "Summary of Height and Proportion Studies" by William K. Hartman. It seemed to convincingly show that such discrepancies were common due to a lack of standard procedures among military photographers. That seemed to settle photographic questions about Wing's suspected intelligence background.

But Jack sent me a draft of his "What's the Deal..." story on the 13-inch heads, and after reading it, I realized that Harman's study was the HSCA's "amusing gyrations" to which he referred. The study shows that these variations are common, random, and unpredictable. If true, persons photographed with 13-inch heads should have nothing in common. Certainly the photos of intelligence personnel known to have been involved in the deepest cover operations (like Oswald, Powers, and by necessity, Wing) should not all show 13-inch heads. If they do, it may prove Jack's theory. More comparisons need to be made.

The whole issue became more intriguing when in Box 6 of that same collection of material in the Archives, I found in a folder called "Unidentified Mug Shots" a black and white photo of an unidentified man who looks like George Wing in a military setting. According to a notation of the acetate sleeve and the sleeves of others like it, the photo was apparently taken on No Name Key. It is a medium close-up of his right profile. It jumped out at me because of the photo I took of Wing's left profile in 1990. The resemblance is striking enough to compel me to get professional opinions. With the copy prints I ordered while in Washington, I can now approach researchers who may be able to help determine conclusively whether or not it is a photo of Dr. Wing.

I've put it to every test I know in a three-way comparison between it, my photos of Wing and the Andrew St. George photo of a man wearing a turtleneck shirt in the book The Fish is Red (one of the coded messages mentioned above). If there are any differences, I can't see them. I've done everything from eyeballing various anatomical features to measuring specific landmarks against each other. The most impressive detail is the match between ear anatomies. Unless a computer analysis or a professional forensic artist can show me specifically where I have made mistakes, I am prepared to say they are all George Wing.

As for the 13-inch heads, I think serious investigation should be done.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...e/13_heads.html

B.......

Hi Duncan:

I think it is more than likely, the third man who was standing behind, Emmett Hudson

on the stairs.

and then proceeds to run up the steps, down the pathway and into the parking lot.

as shown in these Nix Gifs.....the one on the right was done for all by Frank Agbat..

Sorry I had forgotten to mention that info, the other I have no idea, but to whomever, thanks

to both......

B....

I am asking Bernice to post an interesting new comparison here for comments.

Jack

Here you go Jack........

B.......

Here you are Jack....

B....

Hi Jack:

Here's the photo.....

B...

Alan :

You got it ....

Ron, fellas, here it is......

""At the afternoon reception a crowd of nearly 2000 jammed the Chrystal Ballroom of the Ba ? Hotel to hear Vice President Johnson lash out at vociferous critics of the government.

Before shaking hands for nearly an hour, the vice president said he had not come to "say something ugly" about anyone. " My heart is not filled with fear or hate or hyprocisy" he said.

SCORES DETRACTORS

"I see some people that are filled with hate and fear and hypocrisy and I say "God, forgive them" he said to cheers from the Democrats assembled.

"I sympathize with these few who are in the minority, if they think this country is in as bad shape as they say it is, if they think our government is stupid and disloyal well, I wonder why they agree to stay here anyway ?" he said.

He said " the President of the United States is like the a pilot and the election is when the nation picks an airplane and a pilot for the next four years..

COMMON DANGER

"Once you pick him and you're flying across the water in bad weather, don't go up and open the door and try to knock him in the head. He's the only pilot you have and if the plane goes down, you go with it."

"At least wait (until ?)( the election?) at November before you shoot him down"..

The vice president said he had supported President Eisenhower............""

B.......

Hi Jack:

Your photo....

B..

Craig & Bill.......

What I do see, is that you are both still, trying to think for Mary and arrange her words to suit your

purposes....... cest le vie....

B...