Bernice Moore

John:

I believe you mentioned a railing......is this, across the road, to the left of the tree what you

refer to, if so, is it not the truck pipe exhaust attached to such..sticking up ??

If that is what you mention? and the line to the left of that would be the truck roof.....??

Here is the full Cancellare..

B..

Here is Tosh's approximate view, that day, I believe he agreed when first posted, some time back.

On this Forum..

The other Cancellare photos are his markings, posted many years ago now, on another

froum....

Made as I understood at the time, where he and Sergio were approximately..

..that day..one only circled and one enlargement not marked ..

Again FWTW...for your studies....

B.

Here are a few more, the first three I believe are also from Ken Rahn..

The others now ??..if they help in anyway with the studies.

B..

With regards to the B/W 11/23/63 posted aerial.

The 'white things' seem to me to be part of the mechanisms for the switching of tracks. If one looks closely at the ones on the overpass itself, they seem at a uniform distance from the tracks.

In the area where Tosh would have rounded the ballustrade to cross the tracks this distance seems to be less. What this says to me is that they are at the same horizontal distance away from the track, but because the ground leve is lower than on the overpass, they look like they are closer to the track. IE. the apparent darker stripe along the track in this area is a shadowed raised bed for the track. ie. Tosh was correct in seeing the track raised.

My understanding is that some of the things that Tosh said were discounted because there was no supporting imagery, so it was his word against what one could see in the imagery of the day. Such as the handrail, which again this photo shows there was none, as Tosh said, but because the cropped Cancellare seemed to show there was one,a number of people took Tosh as a xxxx. What strikes me is that a number of things that Tosh had to say turn out to be correct and one would have had to be there to know those things.

What is now missing which I strongly believes exist and should be released is the full uncropped lossless Cancellare.

***********

John :

You may be interested in these photos taken in 1980, I believe by Ken Rahn.....

they show the lay of the tracks..and some of the far southern corner....

A friend who visited Dealey Plaza, told me that at the far south end of the overpass,

there is a path, of sorts, that drops, down on a slant with the lay of the land.

..The path then proceeded down leading to the parking lot....But it was concealed by all at that

far south corner, or was..this was some time ago.....

..and one from the south side..in that general area..

..Perhaps others have been in that area..?

FWIW..

B

Hi There Dix:

As you are well aware I agree with you, having followed along since 2000.

In the past Ed has said that he was invited to a party by, a Judy Baker....in 72 in N.O.

along with his girlfriend, BTW I would like to hear her recall...??

Tonight on the radio show he says he was invited to a party by a Judyth Vary Baker..

Not a Judy Baker nor a Judy Vary Baker, but by a Judyth Vary Baker.....

Yes I have read the newest book also...

and imo , he has changed his theory to go along with Judyths...

But of course no one has to agree with me either.

B.

From :

"No More Silence" Larry Sneed...

B.

Here you go Jack..

Your welcome..

B..

The first public announcement of a possible trip was made by LBJ through the Dallas Times Herald of April 24, 1963. LBJ was quoted as saying that "President Kennedy may visit Dallas and other major Texas cities this Summer." (CE 1972)

The WC report states in ch2 p28 that, "He had made only a few brief visits to the State since the 1960 Presidential campaign and in 1962 he began to consider a formal visit." and cites Connally and O'Donnell for this assertion.

I do not think Carter's statement that "President Kennedy's other commitments prevented him from coming to Texas any sooner than November 21st, which was the date finally set." necessarily indicates that Nov 21 was set at that meeting. I think at that time, it was just generally agreed it should be late November.

Late November was the time-frame Eugene Dinkin believed the assassination would take place -- a time-frame he arrived at during September and the first half of October. This is the same period we see the dates for the actual trip being finalised or discussed - announced in Dallas papers, Sep 26 and discussed further on Oct 4.

The Sept 26 and Oct 4 dates almost exactly match Oswald's trip via Houston to MC and subsequent return to Dallas. Somewhere in this period, the motorcade was confirmed, with only the fine details to be worked out. However, disputes over the luncheon venue held up a final decision for a number of weeks.

Houston was on the Presidential itinerary. Oswald had told Ruth Paine he was going there to look for work. Evidence exists in the volumes that this is precisely what he did, though obviously without success. Then he gets an unadvertised job in Dallas on a possible motorcade route. This job is temporary, and created by virtue of some the existing order fillers being given reflooring work during a downturn in business instead of being laid off and rehired later, as had been the norm (see testimonies of Williams and Givens). However, at some time after starting at the TSBD, Oswald applied for a position at DeVilbiss - right next to the Trade Mart.

Here you go Greg...B

Myra you may be interested ......

They posted 2 then 1 for some reason...??

B...

Bump, did not go to the head of the class..??

B

Hi Marteen

This below is a wee gif clip of the Towner, not much...it is a few years old, and sorry

but I do not know now where or whom it came from....

I believe it also may show, what

you have found, a cut, splice break whatever...it is obvious....FWIW..

Marteen I will have to mail it to you..as it will not upload...

I will contact you......if you are interested...

Always welcome..

B

Hi Duncan.....

Glad you have received the DVDs, they get much more interesting, as you hear, what changed,

especially when you check the statements, against the some who are featured made earlier..

and what they had added to their recall....

Also see and hearing Rather and Cronkite at work....doing their thing..

Have another look.....when I look at the DVD, where it shows Zapruder, it appears,

that the pedestal, is at approx his waist..or just below...that is approximately 4 feet high...

He is also considerabley shorter than Eddie Barker of CBS news ..1/2 a head it would

seem, in there...

B......

Maarten....FYI..

Here is where Tina and her Father James Towner were situated...

She took her film from the curb across from the Book

Depository showing the limousine turning onto Elm, passing the TSD,

down Elm St..Till just about the first shot, then it shows the area North of Elm

just after shots..

Tina's camera..

http://users.skynet.be/copweb/jfk/Tina%20Towner%20Camera.htm

B..

Ron:

The girls in this photo are.....I believe this is the one you are referring to...

On the left is Millie Perl...In the middle is Sherry Lynn Garcia, her husband Joe Garcia

was band master at the Colony Club...

On the right is Tawny Angel ( Tina Martin)..

B.....

I do not know Tim except through the Forums..

.....But certainly wish him all the best, and hopefully a miracle..

B

Posted for Jack White..

B..

Chris :

Thanks for the much better Darnell film clips.

Showing the corner of the fence.....all are from the Wilma Bond series

Thanks Trvqve.....wondered where that information I had typed out

had gotten to.

B...

Follow-up to the previous discussion.

Antti,

Jack White responded to your question by describing something he took part in - a test conducted in the TSBD when the floors were empty. Of course he heard the shells drop and of course he heard footsteps. But in 1963, the heavy book cartons all over the sixth floor deadened the noise.

Also, I suspect the assassin knew there were people below him, for the floors were very thin - just one layer of plywood - and the sound would easily carry through. Jack also ignored the simple fact that there were ten to fifteen vehicles and motorcycles right below the window along with cheering crowds, so there was a lot of ambient noise that could have masked some of the sounds from the floor above.

The guys on the fifth floor in 1963 always said they heard the shells hit the floor and the sound of the rifle being operated above them. I don't know of any reason to question their stories and I'm not aware of any researchers who have even attempted to debunk their claims.

Gary

Hi,

Thank you for sharing your view. I'm not sure what it was that made me think there were discrepancies in their stories, somehow I recall the timing of events seemed to get these gentlemen to "stumble". At any rate this was the impression I was left with, I do need to point out it was 2-3 years ago that I read their testimony.

Even with heavy book boxes on the floor, I can't quite figure out why they wouldn't also hear and then mention the movement of the assailant in their testimony. Even if not to set the record straight, they must have been afraid or concerned about this individual possibly moving down to the 5th floor and would therefore try and listen out to what that individual might be doing next, simply out of instinct.

Antti

Hi Antti:

There was no cardboard covering, on the 6th floor, floor...just boxes, and as you can see in this photo below ..taken that day by the DPD..

.........there was supposedly a straight path from the said nest out ....at a run, yes I think also that steps would have been heard.

........If their hearing was that good , noise and all coming from the

outside of the building, that Gary refers to, to hear three small empty shells hiting the floor, and the sound of said rifle being operated above them...

Then the running steps of a man, weighing more than 100 lbs... would have been heard..very

clearly..

B..

Hi Miles:

Yes I left it out, trying to conserve a wee bit of space,as I have been posting

so many of the photos....but thank you very much.

You mention that to you, this man has not moved forward...But to me, he has, if

you study the frames, he is in the sunlight as he begins to approach Darnell,

you then see his suit jacket one shoulder in sun, the other in shade, which appears dark.

...as he

moves towards the photographer, he is then completely in the shade and his

suit is all of the same darker shade....in the last frame his foot, right I believe it is

is also stepping forward..recall this is only about 10 second of film.

Yes, Officer Smith did approach a man with gun in hand, and this man showed him

id from his back pocket, that seemd to him to be SS cridentials...accepted those

and let him go, and regretted it from then on....but the man was wearing a sports

shirt, looked to him like a garage mechanic , and had dirty figernails.

There were others than ran into what they thought were SS men, one of

your favorites, Ed Hoffman as well, Sam Holland also mention behind the

fence seeing two policemen and a plain clothesman, Officer Weitzman also, believed

he met more than one SS man, behind the fence, he also found what seemed to him

to be a piece of bone on the street and turned it over to one he thought was also SS..

Officer Harkness also ran into whom he thought were SS behind the TSBD, he said there

were some that told him they were SS.

But according to the SS themsleves, Sorrels was the only one who did return to the Plaza,

approximately an hour later.....

There were other siteings as well...They were all over the place it seems...

Now how many were Detectives, the DPD.Curry's men who dressed and wore

the white hats ...or Sheriffs Decker's men, who dressed and wore dark fedora hats..and how many

were Pretenders ?? We don't know, except I do not think they have dirty finger nails, nor

look like a mechanics..There were men in that Plaza, who were not what they represented

themselves to be, that is a given....

The problem with Summers information is that it has been added to, and not by him.....

.....it was done by a friend through marriage, and he was

never at the top of the stairs nor behind the fence area...The man he encountered was, behind

the TSBD...along with the people he was with......

He went from the grass on the south side of Elm St, across the road and followed

the crowd, to the street, (second Elm) than runs behind the TSBD...He seemed very sincere

and his story has not basically changed..he was with the crowd and he and the others were

stopped..also.....the man told them to stop, that they could get shot up there and to go back..

He did have an overcoat over his arm which Malcolm thought was unusual, how?I do not know seems

there were others as well, as it had been raining, but anyway..he said he noticed a gun under

that persons arm, not a shoulder holster.....it seemed to him to be in a pocket or concealed under

the coat.....The man didn't show any identification, and that it was only his dress that made him think

he was a detective or an FBI , that it was an order " Y'all better not come up here. You better

stay back because you could get shot up there"..

He hung around for a few minutes could not see anything and left.

Now recall he never ran up the steps, nor was ever behind the wooden fence.....but, now here

is the rest of the story...gets better...

....Al Maddox was a Deputy Sheriff...and his daughter married Malcolms son....and they got to

know each other pretty good.....and one night 25 years later...Al says that Malcolm told him this

that many years later.....that....quoting Al.." I got to know him as the man who ran up the grassy

knoll and was told by a man ""Get back down there or I'll blow your head off.."" or something to that

effect .

The man showed him a badge of some kind and had what Malcolm thought was an Uzi type gun under

his coat."..and that is the rest of the story.....

all those years later, and well maybe they had had a few coffees, I have no idea, but this is how the

legends grow...and what did and did not imo happen has

gotten all the more messed up...

I recall you said you tried to deal the same as I have with mainly first evidence and witnesses recall..

at that time.......well imo here is one that should be forgotten about..

This above is from Marrs and Sneed..

There is much more on the witnesses in Marrs, Crossfire, as well as in Larry Sneeds book.No More Silence..

as well as William Law,& Alan Eaglesham's, In the Eye of History..also the witness tapes from Mark Oakes.

and others... as well..

Posted is a photo of the street that runs behind the TSBD,to the RR parking lot.. this area was

where Malcolm followed the crowd to....This may help in some way....

Thanks B....

P.S.Robin if DPD and or Sheriffs men, they would be armed, and would have such in holsters, I do think..

Tx..

Hi Miles:

Who said this guy was a shooter...or had a gun, ?? Those are your thoughts though and you

are entitled.

Lots of men it seems had one overcoat, and over their arm, they wore them that morning because of the rain.

The man in the lighter suit to the right, has a dark overcoat over his arm...nearest to the fence......the man

you are commenting on is not the same person......he has a dark suit and a light overcoat....

He seems to have a light coat over his left shoulder in the first frames..possibly.?. .or it could be a part of another person ?

Another look and I believe you are correct and it belongs to someone else .

Malcolm Summers, yes he stated that a few days later..that he saw a man with a gun..."toward the knoll" there are

many areas on the knoll..

"Don't you all come up here any further" which part...?? He was not specific at all..that I recall and was not near the knoll,

...if so it is hard to tell exactly where he meant..but will check for myself.

I doubt they knew exactly where their FBI men were specifically, at any time that day..

If you get into their information, they are hard to pin down IMO..there is not all that much, and their reports are

scanty..Also they left a lot of witnesses information out of their statements, changed others, so I kind of doubt

theirs would be in any better order......imo..

The film is such a short clip, I think Darnell said it is 10 seconds, so we do not know, if the man was waiting for that

lady, or whomever, or just arriving there for a look around...he does

not appear to be looking around in the clip...seems to be just arriving...

I do not see him looking around..but perhaps just arriving...

If he was a part of any ops team, I seriously doubt he would still be there...or just arriving ??

Some also have tried to tie Summers story into the Files story ..I have noticed with his info or what some try to inform us

helps back his .... this keeps cropping up, subtley but is here...perhaps you

believe his story, I do not...but I have mentioned that before to you...then again to each their own......

Here are the Darnell frames in order ......as he has swung away from the fence..

B..

Hi, Bernice,

Great photos. Whose the couple in the color photo?

Thanks.

Hi Antti:

The coloured photos of the Paines, as well as many others come from the link at Baylor.

They are from the collections of Penn Jones..

http://www3.baylor.edu/Library/BCPM/JFK/Jo...JonesPhotos.htm

B..

posted by bernice:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&id=10957

faces south from somewhere by the collonade. A few frames later, a guy goes up to the fence, apparently unseen by the cop who are directing these people and raises his hand and appers to point at this spot. Is there any photo that indicates that a slat (or part thereof) here was movable?

(image)

*********

There are others seen, Jack and others have said there were a vine type tree plants every now and again planted

along the fence...

Here is another Darnell frame, and a couple of Gifs.none of them are really clear, but you can see now there

are two of them spaced apart.....could be...if that is the mark that you are pointing out...

I think they are the plants growing up along the sides of the fence.....they show stems branching off.

I have add another it shows other similar branches behind the policeman along the fence....

B

Thx, B

for the Darnell gif, et al., because I noticed here & in other frames

a man in a dark suit standing where the north edge of the sidewalk disappears under & at his feet, who has a light colored overcoat draped over his right hand. This man:

carries his overcoat in a normal way. He drapes it over his right forearm such that it touches his elbow as you can see his hand. But the man here:

carrying a light colored overcoat (gray trench coat?) has his overcoat draped over his hand & away from his crooked elbow by a foot at least. This man is hiding a concealed weapon.

M

******************

Hi Miles:

Don't know.......to me it appears he is holding two coats, one over each arm, and is perhaps

smiling as the lady closest to the camera approaches him....??

Wondering if she was the Misses, and she took off up the steps and into the parking lot and

left him holding all...and he is perhaps just

catching up to her.......then again he may have two weapons one under each coat.....

but I just kind of doubt it...??

Have a look....

B...

Kathleen:

I recalled the thread, and posted a photo and the explanation..I believe..

It is very difficult at times, to figure out what is in the distance and or up close,

So we go to the books or what is available and double check...hopefully

the answers are there..that is the important part...if and when possible..

Evan:

In Trask's book, and also within the motorcade studies, it states that one more convertible was

not available that day, for the LBJ, SS. ??..

They were provided by Earl Hayes Chevrolet, and were used by the dignitaries and the photographers,

others were on buses, which were # 13 & 14th in the motorcade.

All were placed many cars back of the presidential Lincoln X 100, in fact the photog convertibles

were 6th, 7th, and 8th..none up front..

So as seen the door was open to jump out quickly if the need to arose...is the explanation

..The door is seen ajar as well on...Main St. for instance...see attached, I think this is another Dillard photo..

...not positive..

......as well as we see it ajar on Houston Street as they approached the TSBD.. in a Hughes

photo...

B..

posted by bernice:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&id=10957

faces south from somewhere by the collonade. A few frames later, a guy goes up to the fence, apparently unseen by the cop who are directing these people and raises his hand and appers to point at this spot. Is there any photo that indicates that a slat (or part thereof) here was movable?

(image)

*********

There are others seen, Jack and others have said there were a vine type tree plants every now and again planted

along the fence...

Here is another Darnell frame, and a couple of Gifs.none of them are really clear, but you can see now there

are two of them spaced apart.....could be...if that is the mark that you are pointing out...

I think they are the plants growing up along the sides of the fence.....they show stems branching off.

I have add another it shows other similar branches behind the policeman along the fence....

B

Now fellas....

Don't you think that "Green Giant "( Jolly perhaps ) sounds better than "Blockhead"...

I have gone another way, persevere....

Miles :

I believe you are trying to get the "how much would be shown ?"of a human whom is standing in

back of the fence..

I don't think that there is a problem, a part of him would show at that time...imo.

Also keeping in mind whether he stood on the back bumper of a car, that of course would bring him up

that much higher..

I have found stashed away in the "packratsnest".....a photo that was taken facing the fence, when

the Gov did their DPD radio tapes studies...I believe if memory serves me, they took their studies approximately

10 feet from the corner......and

Yes the man behind the fence is holding and aiming a rifle..I think they fired such that day, if someone

can help with that information, please do so......this should give you a pretty good idea..

of how much of him, they, would be seen...

Also some others taken by researchers of people appearing behind the fence...also do not forget the

photo of Lane and Sam Holland taken in 67..Sam was a short man, and you can still see his head, up

above.......and a Darnell frame showing the height of the policeman compared to the fence at the

top of the stairs area...

Perhaps these will help in your studies....

B....