Bernice Moore

Chris :

This may help in your search..........

Couch...two men running for convertible...first man to reach the car....Trask thinks may be Lem Johns page 426 ..POTP.

Malcolm Couch, # 3 Photographer car, middle back seat..filming.....

""AP' Jim Altgens is seen as is W/H film maker Tom Atkins, who with his camera visible, is running to the left.The side of Bob Jackson's face to the right of Couch

is also picked up in this scene..

snip.....

Couch's car further down Elm St.approaching the underpass..Cycle Officer Haygood is off his cycle, just beyond the concrete steps leading from Elm St......to the pergola...

A man is seen running in the street, probably ""S.S.Agent Lem Jones ""who had jumped out of his own vehicle and who now physically vaults over the trunk of the trunk into Camera Car # 1...Atkins is also running for the open passenger door of the first car, while another man runs down the sidewalk.."

There are three frames on the bottom of page 426.....also you can see some on this clip.......but the film does not show,the man on the extreme left as it is not the same width as the frames within the book....?therefore, you do not see "Lem" running in front of Atkins....in the film attached ??

http://jfkmurderphotos.bravehost.com/couch.html

Nor in the gif,which I will try to attach, which may be one of yours Chris.....

B

Hi Miles:

" No see above"?? gee that appears to me that your mind is made up, in cement ??

Then the question why are we discussing this, comes to mind..??

I was in error and you were correct on the tossing of said rifle to the RR ? man over the pipe..brain drain.??

I watched Sam Holland again this afternoon, in his interview with Mark Lane "Rush to Judgement, I believe it was

originally made in 67...he states words to the effect they were milling about,

where the footprints and all were, he speaks of looking in the area of the fence and around for empty shells

and such with the DPD and others, so there had to be room in front of said cars for them to do so..

And if not there would not have been any footprints of any kind, to be found in the first place, and they were many,

as told by several.....witnesses....

He does say to get to that area they did vault and climb over cars...but if it your belief that the cars were all parked

right up against the fence and therefore there could not be any footprints either, fine with me, that is your opinion..

The video is also available here on Johns list..

If you want to suspect Ed's information, that is up tp you.....

I have never heard nor seen one witness that ever stated, you have to believe me....I give them all the benefit of the doubt, as

they were there, and I was not..though I realise with time information from ...some now has changed to some degree..

When Jim Marrs first spoke to Ed I think around 87 ish...?..he did find the FBI information that backed up what he had related

to him,about him contacting them.....

Ed also at the Thanksgiving celebration with his family, after the assassination, 63, did relate the information to a family relative

who was a policeman at the family function..His parents were also deaf mutes

and did encourage him to not become involved ..after telling his relative that day, he was assured the authourities had the man,

and that all was being investigated, so it ended there at that time for him.

However as time went on like the rest of us, he came to realise that the Governments version was questionable...and so he then

went to the FBI office again on Jan.28th 67...

Whether or not they could not understand him or ever took the trouble to even try, we shall never know, the reports that they

wrote up were so distorted..

Of course his parents had concern about their son becoming involved, I believe that was a natural reaction..I did know that he

had written to Edward Kennedy and had

received a reply, all depends again on who was interpreting what he was saying at the time, could be, and or perhaps he did,

have you ever contacted his daughter and perhaps asked,if he ever did say that about the cards ?? just a thought...

It also was later on, with his supervisors encouragement that he again contacted the FBI and he acted as translator for him...

as he felt they did not understand...but they again seemed to have no real interest in persuing the information, just as they were

not with the RR workers information that had been on the overpass, that were not called by the W/C, as well as so many others..

except for Sam Holland....

So as we are well aware, the WCs report simply stated there was

not any credible evidence as to any shots being fired from anywhere but the 6th floor ..so in otherwards if it did not agree

with a lone assassin firing from the TSBD they were not interested.........and therefore Ed along with so many others were all

mistaken or making up stories.....cest le vie..

But what Ed says, does reinforce what others did and have said, as to what they saw, and heard....that there was a gunman

shooting from the knoll fence area..But it is up to the individual as to what you believe or choose not to...

I did go looking in the files ...I thought perhaps you might have been interested in what I did find, but now I get the

impression that you will not be, as you state " Ed's story is highly suspect"....and it appears to me, imo your mind is made up,

but that is up to you and is your opinion and I respect such..........but will post for whomever may be..

It was information from a book, that I copied out some years ago and posted on another forum...

**********************************************

The Ed Hoffman Site..

This is from "Triangle of Fire" the Bob Goodman story....and what became a friendship

with Ed Hoffman.

One afternoon, Bob was on the steps of Dealey Plaza, near where Zapruder had made

the film, and he saw a man standing behind the stockade fence watching him.

In looking in his direction the man, smiled and waved as if he knew him...

Since Bob felt he could not be sure about anyone at the grassy knoll, he ignored him

at first. Then glancing over his shoulder the man waved again..So Bob walked up closer

to the fence, thinking he may want to ask him something....

The man nodded and smiled, and Bob felt there was something different about this

man..and was drawn towards him..as Bob approached him the man looked over his

bifocals, and pounded his index finger on his chest, he then slowly moved his finger

to the corner of his eye and pointed to Elm St...He spoke not a word, and they stared

at each other..Ed wrote on John's notepad his name, and that he had seen what had

happened the day of the assassination......... John had heard about him....Ed Hoffman.

Ed had seen someone behind the stockade fence on the grassy knoll with a rifle when

the President was shot. Through sign language and written notes they communicated,

and Ed told John his story.

On the afternoon of Nov.22/63, he had been on his way to a dental appointment when

he remembered the President was coming to town. As he drove he had seen people

waiting alongside the motorcade route. He passed over the overpass and pulled his car

to the shoulder of the road, and waited near the Stemmons Freeway overpass bridge.

His location was west of Dealey Plaza where the freeway bridge crossed Elm St.

From this position, he had a good view, not only of the street, but also of the area behind

the stockade fence on the Grassy Knoll. Ed wrote that he had seen a man in a dark blue

suit coat and a fedora-style hat with a rifle behind the fence. He said the man had run with

the rifle and had pitched it to another man who appeared to have broken the rifle down or

to have taken it apart, behind a large, silver-colored railroad switching box located near

the corner of the fence, near the railroad overpass bridge.

The man wearing the black fedora had then run back along the fence for a short distance,

and then he had started to walk casually across the parking lot.

As the President's convertible limousine drove down Elm St. and toward the freeway just

seconds later, Ed saw the aftermath of the assassin's bullets. He saw the blood and the

agony and the damage to the President’s head. He knew that something terrible had happened.

Ed communicated with his close friends and family what he had witnessed and had even reported

it to the authorities. The results were a lack of interest and a warning to forget about what he had seen.

His story remained fairly well secret until the summer of 85 when he shared his eyewitness account to

veteran researcher and writer Jim Marrs, who also, on occasion visited the Dealey Plaza area.

Mr. Hoffman explained that there now is a large billboard that now blocks the view that he had on Nov.22/63

and this created a problem. It was impossible to take a photograph of the view that he had seen that

afternoon from the overpass area. The billboard was twelve to fifteen feet lower and almost at ground

level on the day of the assassination.

Every two or three weeks, Ed would drop by Dealey and visit Bob Goodman, and it was on one of these

visits that as they walked over to the train tracks, and as stood looking at the back of the billboard, he

showed John where the metal posts that supported the sign had been extended.

The metal beams had indeed been welded and lengthened thus raising the billboard twelve to fifteen

feet from it's original position. It was frustrating to Ed to try to explain his story without showing him his

direct viewpoint. Later it was discovered that there was a photo taken the day of the assassination

showing the billboard at ground level. It confirmed Mr. Hoffman's claim of the position as being a fact..

*******************************

Not only that but later the sign was taken down for repairs, and during that time, a photo was taken..

showing the view that Ed had that day.....also below Ed showing where abouts he saw the wound to the

President's head..

Thanks

B......

Chris:

Have a look in the Atkins photos..if any..I only have the four of them.......this one shows the number #1 photo car,

in the lead..and Wiegman running

to catch it..

.Now it did slow down and # 2 passed ....and it is said that Lem got in along with Dave W.....and in looking

at the photo you posted, it appears to be crammed full of photogs....(an aside, on the right that appears to be Motorcyclist DP Hargis , as

in another he is heading for the curb, to park the bike, and run up the hill.....)

Also see if you have any early frames on the Bond film....I checked mine, none that I found, that show much before we see the bus..

I could not pick any photogs out running in the streets....see if the convertibles are shown ??....if possible.......you may

be able to see some photogs within, getting back in the convertibles, or perhaps Wiegman and Lem Johns??..if there are some available

that is....??

Just some thoughts...

B..

For the interested....

B.....

Bernice,

Thanks for providing Lem John's personal statement.

Quote from Trask's POTP:page 374

I'll start with Wiegman:

"When I came back down the hill Lem Johns didn't have a ride and I said, Come on, get in our car. Here it is,' and he jumped in our car."

That would be cameracar #1.

Provided is Dillard's #25 showing cameracar #1. Lem John's photo above it.

Is Lem Johns in this car?

chris

Hi Chris.....

Yes as Photo car, 2 had passed 1....Wiegman was in car number 1......and that is Wiegman, with the Fedora on, reaching out....to give whom ??..a hand..will find...

I did just try a quick search, as do have some info on the cars becoming out of order and this in particular, but it did not spring to the

surface as it is suppose to, magically...

Here is the list below FWIW....The Camera Cars: When the motorcade began, that is...

These vehicles were provided by Earl Hayes Chevrolet , were

positioned

6th, 7th,8th....behind the presidential Lincoln.

The listing of the seating is below..

Camera Car # 1, 1964 Chevrolet Impala ,Yellow 2 door convertible .

License # PI 9059. 6 men seated.

1.Front seat, Driver, John Hoefen (NBC sound technician) David Wiegman Jr.

...(NBC cameraman),

1.Back seat, Thomas J.Craven Jr (CBS cameraman), Cleve Ryan (Pool

...Electrician ) Thomas M.Aikins ( White House cameraman ).

************

Camera Car # 2, 1964 Chevrolet Implala ,Silver 2 door convertible.

License # PI 7856. 6 men seated.

2. Front seat, Driver, Donald C."Clint" Grant ( Dallas Morning News

...photographer, Frank Cancellare (UPI photographer) .

2.Back seat, Cecil Stoughton (White House photographer) Arthur Rickerby

...(Life photographer) Henry D.Burroughs (AP photographer).

************

Camera Car # 3, 1964 Chevrolet Impala ,Gray 2 door convertible.

License #...856. 6 men.

3. Front seat, Driver, James R. Underwood (KRLD cameraman)

....Thomas C.Dillard (Dallas Morning News photographer)

3. Back seat, Jimmy Darnell (WBAP cameraman) Malcolm O.Couch

...(WFAA cameraman) Robert H.Jackson ( Dallas Times Herald

....photographer)..

************

Thanks for now.....

B....

Miles:

Keeping in mind, there were two of DPDs finest, one at each end, supposedly on the Overpass..

it could be one?? The other was standing with Sam Holland and the RR workers..

Also no need to throw it over the pipe...the RR Box was beyond the pipe, is that perhaps

what you are getting at ?, it being thrown and dismantled and put in the box, and or into a

toolbox type, and a man in a RR uniform, picks it up and simply walks away over the

tracks as one was seen to be doing....?? No need to, throw it over, the whomever would be on the other

side of said pipe...near the box..and the end of the fence, where it turns inward and creates

a blind spot, to all on the overpass....

See below the photo taken of Marguerite Oswald, she had gone to the Plaza, with Mark Lane,

I think,not positive, but showing her with newsmen.......it shows, the box, and the pipe, which is in

front of said box..also shows the binding around the pipes that Sam spoke about..

On the large map attached, you can see at each end of the overpass, how the blind spots were

created as it turned in, and then did so again.....taken 63....

B.....

See:

Thx, Bernice, if you can blow up this .jpg you will see that on 11-22(or 23-date of photo)-63 a man standing at column 2 of the balustrade (column man) could easily have seen Ed's apocryphal rifle toss. Remember, Column Man would have heard clearly the crack or report of the kill shot to his immediate left &, consequently, would have had a reflex reaction to look to his left to see, amazingly, the assassin pitch his rifle. Of course, no pitch ever occurred. If Ed's toss occurred in the blind area, then, of course, Column Man would have seen the assassin's assistant leap over or duck under the steam pipe with the rifle!. It's noteworthy that Ed changed his story from the assassin throwing the rifle with his palms up to throwing it with his palms down.... just one of the numerous contradicting inconsistancies.... [bTW, note the cars parked along, against the long arm of the picket fence. How could the shooter have walked west down along the fence between these cars & the fence? Maybe he shuffled side stepping, crab-wise? ]

***************

Hi Miles:

I am trying to get this straight.... ........Ed spoke of a man coming from behind the fence, towards the box area....not shooting from there..the blind area.....the RR box was beyond the pipe...not visa versa..see marguerites photo.......the cars did not park right up against the fence....as we know there was room in between, there were many,many footprints behind...

Sam Holland referred to two different foot prints, seen in an area where the whomevers, had appeared to have paced back and forth in a matter of 10 feet I believe...some 20 feet approx from the corner of the fence......so no not crab like.......and when he and the RR men , Simmons was another, and the DPD arrived at that spot, they did see and inspect the footprints, so there was room behind the fence, for movement..

Also Lee Bowers mentions as well as one other, ?? gone now, that immediately after he noticed a RR employee, carrying a tool box, and walking over the RR tracks...??

The palms up and palms down, to me is, ?...as time passes, could be from different translations, as you know he is a deaf mute, and unless it is it seems his daughter with him when translation is needed, or a professional, each tanslate with some differences, on some words....I for myself, would not put much into that..if the basic story remains the same,that is why I try to work with first evidence.....imo.

Similar to other witnesses who have over the years changed a word or so, when asked to recall, we must keep in mind, it is 44 years this Nov....I sure would not like to recall anything from all those years ago....I know I would make one heck of a mess of it....speaking for myself that is..with some words used, now and back then..

Ever try the parlor game, where one guest tells a short story to the next, whispered into their ear, and what it sounds like when it comes out of the last visitors mouth....

Thanks much for the comeback....

B.....

I thought he did.......But....will have to take a look sometime..

Why not email him, and ask..?? or perhaps others will be around

later, and be able to tell you exactly....

There is nothing as far as I know, that Don has not taken the time to

include for all.....

Here is the information on Jimmy Darnell's actions on Nov.22/63....

FYI....

Jimmy Darnell: POTP : Trask

He had been at Love Field, WBAP had Bureau Chief Kerr and cameraman/reporters

Robert Welch and Jimmy Darnell on

assignment. and had been instructed if any incident occurred

during the motorcade that he was to stay at the scene.He was

their representative in the motorcade, earning a degree in a

double major in Journalism and Education and had been working

for WBAP-TV since Jan.61.His wife Ruth worked for the Burglary

and Theft Bureau of the DPD, as a secretary.

In camera car #3 ,some 8 cars behind the Presidents ,allocated

for the local press, a 1964 Chevrolet Impala, grey, Darnell sat

in the rear drivers side of the seat, with Bob Jackson and Tom Dillard.

He jumped from the car at the time of the shooting along with James

R. Underwood and still cameraman Tom Dillard. (Just before the car

was moving around the corner onto Elm. page 423 ).In two brief FBI

reports dealing with Darnell's activites, it relates: Darnell "....stated

he heard the first shot and thought it was a back-fire from an

automobile. The second shot he thought was a firecracker. He stated,

however, after the second shot he realized from the confusion that

something had happened and he jumped out of the car and ran

towards the President's car. However,he was unable to see anything

and did not get any photographs. He said he noticed parents were

throwing their children to the ground and covering them with their

bodies and that he took photographs of this activity." ( FBI report by

agents Richard E. Harrison & George W.Carlson. 11/29/63).page 422

After jumping from the car Darnell ran down the South side of

Elm Street ,westerly towards the area where he had seen bodies

falling.

Raising his camera to his eyes, he managed to record some 9-1/2

seconds of activity in two film sequences. In the first five second

shot Darnell has pointed his camera across Elm St. as first a car

and then the station wagon (the 11th and 12th cars behind the

President's vehicle.)-(page 422...also shows a frame of Darnell's,

across the street can be seen AP photographer Jim Altgens looking

to his right,

apparently waiting for a chance to cross the street. To Altgens right

can be seen the Newman family on the grass. Bill Newman is on his

knees and with his right hand hits the ground three hard whacks

venting his frustration. A man runs by from camera right down the

sidewalk ,while a young boy runs down the grassy incline towards

the same direction. This view was also made by still photographer

Harry Cabluck from aboard a press bus in the motorcade as it passed

by.

Just after this Darnell shoots a shorter clip as the third bus in the

motorcade carrying the "official" party and a black and white police

cruiser passes in the foreground. Panning to the left Darnell follows

the vehicles as they speed towards the railroad overpass while

people dash across the street towards the grassy knoll.This film

and other brief clips made by Darnell were shown on NBC, coupled

with other films and narrated by Robert MacNeil as part of the days

synopsis.It was broadcast nationally at about midnight Eastern Time

that Friday.page 423,

He is seen on the South side of Elm, to his left in a long dark coat

and white pants is Mary Moorman, now back on her feet, looking

westerly down Elm St. her polaroid visible in her left hand. From

the right the influx of people begin to pour into the area.The wood

panel 1964 Mercury Colony Park station wagon that proceeds the

first Bus ( it appears in Bond ,to me the distance dividing the two

is approx. 25 to 30 feet .page 210) Seconds later Bond clicks off

another shot as the first bus approaches the underpass. A sedan

carrying Morning News reporters, had squeezed into the motorcade

between the two buses, and are shown in the camera's view.

(Bond 6..page 211).

The Newman family ( Bond 7..page 211), has gotten up from

the ground.

He remained in Dealey Plaza area for some time, filming and

interviewing witnesses, along with Mary Moorman and Jean Hill.

page 423.

One of the first broadcast witnesses was with Jean Hill. Jimmy Darnell

had come upon her in the press room. At 1.21pm CST, WBAP's

Tom Whalen played over the NBC network an interview arranged

through Darnell, which he had just audio-taped a few minutes earlier.

Darnell was later joined at the Court Building by NBC cameraman

Henry Kokajan, who had brought with him WBAP's only sound camera

which had originally been set up at the Trade Mart. By about 3.16 CST

,NBC was again reporting through its WBAP affiliate on witnesses to

the shooting, and Moorman's photo of the President was shown on

camera followed by a filmed interview of the two women. (page 237-8).

Following his work in Dealey, Darnell went back to Love Field and was

able to film the President's coffin being loaded onto AF 1 at about 2.15pm.

taking it from the perimeter of the secure area. Head of police security

for Love Field, Newton Fisher ,is said to have confiscated Darnell's film,

saying

"That's sacrilegious. !!" Three film clips shown on Fri. night by NBC

along with other Darnell shots do show long shots of the ambulance

arriving at AF1 ,and might in fact have been Darnell's work?. page 423.

From The Great Zapruder Film Hoax..re Love Field and filming the Coffin.

Gary Mack ARRB statement 11/18/94.

Dr.Hall: Do you have any knowledge , --snip--of any former public

officials who took with them materials related to the assassination

that are now held in private hands that would otherwise be deemed

public documents?

Gary Mack: One comes to mind, A local photographer who worked

for the NBC affiliate named Jimmy Darnell, filmed the loading of the

President's casket on to Air Force One. He filmed it from close range,

and after he was done, a Dallas Police Officer ( Newton Fisher) came

up to him and said you shouldn't have done that, that is sacrilegious,

give me your camera. Jimmy had just joined ( Jan. 61) the station

and hadn't been in the business very long and he did turn over the

camera or gave him the film, and the officer ---Jimmy knew the

officer's name and he told me the officer's name ,and I don't

recall it. It will come to me in a minute.

I called him (the officer, Newton Fisher?)and he had no knowledge

of such a film and didn't recall doing that, but was not really surprised,

it was not the kind of thing he would be enthusiastic to admit..

He said if he had done that, he would have given it to Chief Curry,

which means it would have gone to the FBI, so the station filed a

FOI request right away and got an answer within like four days

that their files do not have any such film.

Since there is such controversy, and legitimate controversy, I

should add about the condition of the President's body in Dallas

versus the body in Washington, I would douibt very highly there

would be anything significant in this film of loading the body

onto Air Force One, but you never know, and what else was on

that film has also vanished..page 477-8. TGZFH.Dr.J.Fetzer

POTP: Trask.

After leaving Love Field ,Jimmy Darnell went to the DPD and stayed

there into the early hours of Sat. morning." I filmed Oswald when

they brought him into the "show up" room ".Oswald's brief showing

to the hoards of press at an assembly room late that Friday.

Darnell's wife Ruth had been re-assigned, temporarily into Chief

Curry's office to help answer the deluge of phone calls from

all over the world.

Jimmy was off duty on Sat, and on duty Sunday,and at Parkland

Hospital to catch up on Governor Connally's condition,he was there

and filmed Oswald being brought in following his being shot by

Jack Ruby.

POTP: page 430.

Jimmy Darnell also took footage of the TSBD's exterior view

of the building and the unfolding activity around it. page 519.POTP.

He also filmed the pool of red liquid, in a 5 second snippet of film

for WBAP-TV, (which BTW later became KXAS-TV.) from the top

of the knoll steps..panning left and tilting slightly down to show

the pool,of liquid. A small crowd milling around, people walking

around it, also filming the Police in and around the knoll, and

railroad yard to the west. Filming officer James Foster on the

sidewalk at the top of the steps near the red liquid, with the wood

fence at his rear.... National Nightmare page 91.

Below is a Wilma Bond photo...

That is he, Jimmy Darnell, facing the bus filming, in the brown

suit, Mary Moormen is seen to his left..

B.......

I do not know Thomas, perhaps there were drips of blood, leading away,

that they were observing ?????

No broken pop bottles were ever reported,nor seen, or mentioned other than by

Marilyn Sitzman, but not till 67 ?..I believe..

Below is the photo, Jack Whites work showing according to Mel Couch's

description the corner where he saw the blood...

A link to the Testimony of Malcolm Couch in which he speaks of the blood..

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/couch.htm

and a scanned copy of a couple of pages from a book with his recall...

B

Evan :

Here are a few frames from the Darnell film showing the area.

at the top of the steps......

B

[...} think the opposite, Lee, not from hers compared to his, but from his....and others....and printed in some way into hers......

[...]

________________________________

Bernice (or somebody),

Please rephrase it so that I can understand, especially the part that goes, "...not from hers compared to his, but from his...and others...and printed in some way into hers......"

(Holy cow!)

Sorry, probably too much Ballantine's "Finest," yes?, no?

--Thomas

________________________________

"...not from hers ( book) compared to his ( book) , but from his...( book ) and others.( books)..and printed in some way into hers..( book)...."

( Holy cow! ) hard.......?

Lee and I were talking about information within books...!

""Sorry, probably too much Ballantine's "Finest," yes?, no?

--Thomas ""

B....

Hi Lee:

Books such as "Appointment in Dallas" had been out for many years.......it is not a case of the information contained

within agreeing with her information.....It is a question of, where she basically got her information and those that

worked with her, from many, many previously released books, this is all documented on the alts and was done and posted

by them.......in the emails..and posts and referred to....there were over 4000 posts, at one time, more now.....try following

that without learning something....

I followed her information for approximately 7 years......my friend a year longer.......we had hoped there was something

there, many did....we followed the changes, and suppositions, the questionable rantings and ravings, yes they were.....if you

did not and do not agree, with anything pertaining to her story, whether that includes one of the many, many changes that

have been made down through the years....or you questioned....you are a target.......we have been there and done that.......

Yes, we have the books, yes we read them...studied and compared them....We have followed all......don't take my word for all this,

if you think there is something there, then research all yourself..and come to your own conclusions...but you must go away back and

start at the beginning of which most is still out there....

Have you ever read Paris Flammonde's first book..?." The Kennedy Conspiracy" 1969.......do so if you have the chance,you will see

the great similarities, almost at times, should I say verbatim, I suppose I should not, but you get the idea.....

Just a few thoughts, think the opposite Lee, not from hers compared to his, but from his....and others....and printed in some way into hers......

FWIW...am done.......

B.....

Many thanks Chris......

B

Gil

Thank you very much for all your videos..This one will not go past the 1.46 mark for me....??

Could you please check...then again it could be my very own Gremlin...?

B..

Hi Lee:

The documentation is not provided, in the books, yes it was of interest, but without, it is as Bill suggests and could be

detrimental to the real evidence...We can all write a book, and or make many claims, but without

the proof, that is what it is, simply their opinion, and a story...more supposition.

I realise this can be and has been a touchy subject, though it should not be....she should be treated as any

other who prints their knowledge and findings..if what they claim cannot stand up to the research community

and the "proof

of the pudding" is not contained to verify within, then it is mainly disgarded as others have been in the past.

That's the way as a rule it works.....imo

Nice to see you Lee, hope all are well...

B...

Thought I would comment on this thread about the Photo Galleries and mention that...

They contain many photos from the forum, that Rich has in his own collection and

has been submitted by various members down through the years....with his illnesses

and hospitalizations he has not be able to renew the archives till now.

Rich also will be making new additions, soon......

Here below is the link to the main Photo Gallery page...

http://www.jfkresearch.com/page9.htm

Enjoy....B

Miles:

Keeping in mind, there were two of DPDs finest, one at each end, supposedly on the Overpass..

it could be one?? The other was standing with Sam Holland and the RR workers..

Also no need to throw it over the pipe...the RR Box was beyond the pipe, is that perhaps

what you are getting at ?, it being thrown and dismantled and put in the box, and or into a

toolbox type, and a man in a RR uniform, picks it up and simply walks away over the

tracks as one was seen to be doing....?? No need to, throw it over, the whomever would be on the other

side of said pipe...near the box..and the end of the fence, where it turns inward and creates

a blind spot, to all on the overpass....

See below the photo taken of Marguerite Oswald, she had gone to the Plaza, with Mark Lane,

I think,not positive, but showing her with newsmen.......it shows, the box, and the pipe, which is in

front of said box..also shows the binding around the pipes that Sam spoke about..

On the large map attached, you can see at each end of the overpass, how the blind spots were

created as it turned in, and then did so again.....taken 63....

B.....

Here is the....

David Wiegman:Information.......

"We were in that straight-a-way heading down to what I now know as

the Book Depository, and I heard the first report and I thought like every

body that it was a good size firecracker---a cherry bomb .Then when I

heard the second one, the adrenaline really started pumping because

there was a reaction in the motorcade, I was sitting on the edge of the

(car door) frame,which I sometimes did. I keenly remember right after

the incident that my feet were on the ground during one of the reports.

I don't think I was fast enough to react to the second, but I think on the

third one I was running.

The car had slowed down enough for me to jump out. I swung my leg

over and jumped while the car was still moving, but it was very slow.

I jumped and I remember running and I remember the third shot.

When I got out I knew I better get around the corner. The car was

stopping. I'd better run around there and see what was happening. I

knew the reaction was to run forward. I'd done this before in other

motorcades because a lot of times the President will stop and do

something. He might just shake a hand. He might look at a sign.

So your doing no good sitting in your car, and you can always

retrieve your car as it goes by....It was a technique I've used and

I've gotten some good pictures that way. That may have been built

in to get out and run and get up there and see what the heck's

happening . The motorcade has stopped, plus you heard a report

I don't think I thought on the first or second ( shot ), but when the

third one went off, I really thought I felt the compression on my face.

----I really thought I felt it. The I thought "Somebody is shooting".

The idea of turning on the camera, I don't know where that came

from. Iv'e turned in some real sloppy work over the years that

went into editing because I believed that sometimes your not

photographing what's happening as much as the moment. It's a

slice of time. And something told me, "hey look, what have I got to

lose. I've got a full spring and just turn it on." I can't stop and plant

my feet, so I put it against my chest because you can't run with a

Filmo up to your eyes. So I just slid i tdown under my chin and

looked forward and ran as fast as I could and took in everything I

could."

Telephone interview Wiegman, 3/11/89..P.O.T.P...Trask..

pages 371-372.

..........................

He was in the Press car 1."the reel car"

the first with photographers aboard..A yellow 1964 Chev.Impala

convertible.

The President's Lincoln..The Queen Mary.SS...L.B.Js ...

SS..The Bell Telephone press pool car ..then the Press #1 Car..

(Wiegman's). Along with Atkins,Craven,John Hoefen,( Wiegman's

sound man..Front seat driving a Texas Ranger..then Cleve Ryan

then Wiegman on the passenger seat in the sixth car behind the

President..

He was carrying a Filmo movie camera,used no handle,

shot with left eye finders on left side of camera.Wide angle lens,

He thought he used a 10mm.that day..

Worked for NBC..TV cameraman..White House attachment every

day for 8 years..37 years old..

.........................

"It would appear through careful analysis of this film, and aided in

research done by Richard Sprague and Gary Mack ,on the timing

of the sequence, that Wiegman began filming

A LITTLE OVER THREE SECONDS:....

prior to the President BEING HIT IN THE HEAD".

Gary Mack 's,"Coverups!"..9/1982..p.2-5...9/1985, p.1-2..

Letter Richard Sprague to Robert Cuttler, 10/31/1982.

..........................

"Wiegman probably first pressed his camera trigger just after

the second shot."..clip.."begins as Wiegman's car is approaching

the TSDB, while the telephone car infront begins making the

left hand turn.".." shows various spectators on the steps of the

Book Depository as well as others on the sidewalk..Many are

looking forwards towards the presidential vehicle while some

are gazing back at the vehincles coming in their direction."

.Trask..p373

.......

What we have of the Wiegman film....

http://www.jfk-online.com/films.html

Below shows the positions of the motorcade, in which the "professional" photographers

were riding...and the map of where the witness photographers were standing...who

had come to see the mororcade.FYIW..

B.....

Miles:

I do not think the the SA Lem Johns could have been the man behind the fence..Mike's

article points that out quite clearly...imo..also there is the time factor, Lem was at Parkland

by accounts by 12.45pm.. Wiegman never mentions him..and on...

The men seen on the overpass nearing the corner of the fence, in all

probably would more than likely have been Sam Holland, Simmons and others of the RR workers that did cross over

relatively quickly and hurried to the area behind

the fence. ...

Where some had seen the smoke drift out from under the trees, looking for a shooter..

They found two sets of different footprints...where two people had been pacing back and forth in the mud..

The final completed timing of the all the photos within Dealey has not been completed..There are several who

have done work on "some" of such, but as yet, there is not THE completion..there were over 500 photos taken

that day..many we do not nor have we had access to...many we have....perhaps someday..

You may be interested in the following....

Some follow up info, on Thomas Lemuel Johns SS.......he was asigned to

LBJ. was in the follow up V.P SS car Nov.22/63..

Statement to the WC........Thomas Lemuel Johns

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=140587

Many Hits at Marys

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...&docId=1135

Palamara was in touch with him..

ATSAIC of V.P./ LBJ Detail Thomas "Lem" Johns, rode in V.P. follow-up car:

"The first two sounded [shots] sounded like they were on the side of me towards the grassy knoll…"

[HSCA interview with Johns, 8/8/78: RIF# 180-10074-10079]

"Newsday" article by Michael Dorman, 2/99:

Lem Johns, a former assistant Secret Service director in charge of all the agency's protective operations, was an agent riding in the Dallas motorcade. "If you get the tie nicked by a different bullet, you've got a second gunman - simple as that," Johns said. "I've never thought that was out of the question."

Above is from the Barnley Blog..

http://barnley.blogspot.com/2005/03/my-profile.html

Below his photo, and his statement to the WC, for whatever..it's worth .....is entirely up to the individual..

B......

Nope they did not all take...

Another go with a few more..

B....

Hi Bill:

Here are a few that may be of interest to you...

If this all works..

B.

J.William:

Is this any better....and the car in the other photo, is it the same vehicle...??

B......

That is Officer Haygood on top of the fence.........

The photo was taken by Harold Cabluck.....this is within minutes after..

Haygood was approximately at the corner of Houston and Elm, when the President was hit...

He looked down the street saw the people down on the ground and in confusion...He then rode his

bike to the street sewer area on the North side of Elm, just to the right in front of the Fort Worth Freeway sign.....

and parked it, after trying to jump the curb....

By then people had begun to run up the knoll, but he ran up the bank, towards the corner of the fence, people

then began to follow him.....

Harold Cabluck was on the bus..the first bus.......

He took the photo of Haygood, at the top of and peering over the fence..... it was taken within minutes

of the President being hit by the kill shot.....Zap frame 313..

The photo below showing Haygood with the motorcycle is a frame from the poor Couch film..

The other is from Wilma Bond, pointing out the sewer......that is Haygood approaching the sewer drain

and sign where he parks it...

The other photo showing Haygood, approaching the top of the hill nearing the fence that Robin

has posted, is also from the Couch film....

B.......

That's Bill Alexander on the left, Asst.D.A.at the time..

B....

Peter-

I think its a good overview explanation of the collapse of the Towers. I haven't been able to really go through it in detail (maybe this weekend). One quick item - I'm not sure how much weaker the central core columns were compared to the outer columns, especially considering they acted as a system because they were tied together at each floor by the concrete slab. You may want to elaborate on that.

As for the Kansas City Hyatt - IRRC the structural engineer of record lost his PE license because of the collapse. What has always shaken me up about that incident is how obvious the mistake was once its been pointed out, and the realization of how easy of a mistake it was to make. I think about it often when I'm reviewing shop drawings.

A bit off topic but some thoughts on the 9-11 truth movement in general:

<get on soap box>

I've come to the conclusion that the truth movement is divided primarily into two camps - one out to make a buck / or get their 15 minutes of fame and couldn't care less about the truth and the second camp believe the nutty CT's simply because they want / need to. There is a third group, people that truly think we haven't been told the whole truth and really want to know what happened - this group is relatively small and many believe the Towers collapsed due to the impacts and fires - they're just not sure of the specifics of who flew the planes, who they worked for - etc.

I've decided to stop debating this with people I perceive to be members of the two primary camps because the 9-11 attacks still evoke great emotion for me and I find it too frustrating when one side appears to simply make things up and refuses to answer simple questions while I'm trying to deal with real life engineering, science and demonstrable facts. Besides, no mater what I or anyone else says, they don't really want the "truth" - just your money or your confirmation of their preconceived notions.

<step down from soap box>

***********************

Steve:

This photo showing below in reference to your comment "" - I'm not sure how much weaker the central core columns were compared to the outer columns, especially considering they acted as a system because they were tied together at each floor by the concrete slab. You may want to elaborate on that.""

Photo from Jack White

B...

Excellent copies, Robin....

Thanks....and

P.S........Mary has the coke bottle. in fact she has

several..?? which they said was a Dr.Pepper, but what the heck..

B..