Bernice Moore

Quote Craig Lamson: "Really???

Please explain how short Mary, standing off the curb and in the guttter has her lens OVER the top of the windshield of the closest motorcycle, which IIRC was 54 inches tall??????

Wanna try again?""

You figure it out, your the one objecting......To Mary's information.

If you do not believe the witnesses who were there, and their almost immediate interviews, while you and the rest of us were not...

....That, is entirely up to you..

B..

**********************

Chris:

This photo below is from Jack.......

B.......

Either Mary was wrong in her recollection...

or

The Moorman, Altens, Muchmore and Zapruder films were altered to move her OUT of the street.

I have it figured out...do you?

******************************

Why is it, that people who were not there, continually try to put Their words into the mouths of the

witnesses......And continually, try to say what they meant...?? It doesn't work that way....

These people were, intelligent, they were there, they had seen what had occurred, the researchers

had not, anyone who does such, and it is continually done by some....is for their own reasons ..

Mary stated what she did on Nov. 22/63..at approx 3.30 pm.....and she repeated it, in 1997...

That should tell the researchers I would think something??? They were her words..you cannot change them..

Simply because they do not fit in with whomever's theory, or scenario.....does not give

the researchers who try to do so, that right....... why is it that some of those researchers will believe

some of the witnesses verbatum when they do fit their theory,.......... but will not accept other

witnesses statements, when they do not, that is a double standard...

Mary stated what she did, no one can change her words, they were and are Hers....

Deal with them, not what anyone supposes....

Deal with the documentation and evidence we have, do not try to change it.......IMO...

11-22-63, from KRLD Radio tape reels.The reel was an interview by Jay Hogan of Mary Moorman and Jean Hill at

3:30 pm...on KRLD RADIO excerpts, Tape 5B and 6A at NARA.

Excerpts

HOGAN:

Q: Hello, Mrs. Moorman?

A: Yes.

Q You took the picture just after the shootong ,or just before?

A: Evidently, just immediately, as the....Cause, he was looking, you know whenever

I got the camera focused and I snapped it in my picture,

he slumped over.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q:About how close were you ?

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more. . . Because I fell behind my camera.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: Were you up on that grassy bank there?

A: We stepped out in the street. WE WERE RIGHT AT THE CAR.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: How many shots did you hear? You say "shots rang out".

A: Oh, oh, I don't know. I think three or four is what I, I uh, that I heard.

Q: Uh huh.

A: (continuing) that I'm sure of. Now, I don't know, there might have been more.

It just took seconds for me to realize what was happening.

Q: Yeah, uh, what as your first thought?

A: That those ARE shots. I mean, he had been HIT.

And that they're liable to hit me, cause I'm right at the car.

so I decided the place for me is to get on the ground (laughs).

Q: So huh, how did the president respond to this shot. I mean, did he just

slump suddenly?

A: He grabbed his chest, and of course, Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately,

and fell over him; and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

Q: Did you notice any other reactions...

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Uh, they hesitated just for a moment [referring, I believe, to the car itself,

rather than to the behavior of any particular individual--dsl] cause I think they

were like I was, you know--'Was that a shot," or was it just a backfire, or

just what? And then, course, he clutched himself and they immediately sped up,

real fast, you know, like--to get OUT of there. And, uh, the police, there were

several motorcycles around him; and, uh, they stopped, and uh--one or two must

of went with him, And one ran up the hill, and a friend that was with me ran up

the hill across the street from where the shots came from.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: It (shots) seemed fairly close by?

A: Yes, uh huh.

Q And from what direction did they seem to be?

A: Oh, Lord? North. Just back there (at--laughs)

Q: Just just right at you?

A: Yes, sir.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: The sound popped, well it just sounded like, well, you know, there might

have been a firecracker right there in that car.

Q: And in your picture, uh, you took this picture just BEFORE the shot?

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A:Evidently, at the minute ( means "instant" that he, that hit him because, uh

we was ,we was looking, at me,or I mean, he was looking, you know at the people

when my picture came out. They just slumped over, so I must have got it....

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Yes, uh huh. You could see he's clutched, he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: Uh huh. And you and your friend Miss Hill, uh, were together there

at the scene. Was anybody else with you?

A No, uh uh.

Q: OK, well we sure thank you.

FROM HERE ON OUT, the interview continues with Jean Hill

This was posted here on the EF by Jack White from David Lifton Feb.07...

*******************************

I found this partial copy of an interview of Mary Moorman, in a search a couple of years back....

Mary stated she WAS in the street again, when she took her polaroid.....in 1997.....

While being interviewed by KRLD ....The interview was originally, and kindly provided by Debra Conway.....

Moorman: "UH, just immediately before the presidential car came into view, we were, you know, there was just tremendous excitement. And my friend who was with me ( Jean Hill ) we were right ready to take the picture. And she's not timid. She, as the car approached us, she did hollar for the president . " Mr.President, look this way !

AND I'D STEPPED OUT OFF THE CURB INTO THE STREET TO TAKE THE PICTURE. AND SNAPPED IT IMMEDIATELY .And that evidently was the first shot .You know I could hear the sound.And.

Jones: "Now, when you heard the sound, did you immediately think 'rifle shot'..?"

Moorman: "Oh no. A firecracker, maybe. There was another one just immediately following which I still thought was a firecracker. And then I stepped back up on to the grassy area. I guess just, people were falling around us, you know.

Knowing something was wrong . I cetainly didn't know what was wrong. "

**********************************

Mary took ONE polaroid Photo of the President, and ONE of the motorcyle cop...earlier.....

Only ONE of the PRESIDENT.........and in that photo, he was taking a shot to the head...she did Not take any photo of him approaching her, ....so how anyone can possibly try to make it out that what she took, was as they turned the corner, has anything to do with an earlier one that she took of the Motorcycle Policeman... Simply does not and cannot gel...Deal with what Mary says, that day, not what you want to think she says.....

B.....

Sorry Jack I got them in the wrong order...

B...

Photo from Jack.....

B.....

Quote Craig Lamson: "Really???

Please explain how short Mary, standing off the curb and in the guttter has her lens OVER the top of the windshield of the closest motorcycle, which IIRC was 54 inches tall??????

Wanna try again?""

You figure it out, your the one objecting......To Mary's information.

If you do not believe the witnesses who were there, and their almost immediate interviews, while you and the rest of us were not...

....That, is entirely up to you..

B..

**********************

Chris:

This photo below is from Jack.......

B.......

Photo below from Jack.........

Statement from Mary Moorman......

Yesterday while reviewing some transcribed old notes taken many years ago

at the National Archives, David Lifton came across a long forgotten

information of the mother lode variety.

He was transcribing by hand, listening with earphones to audio tapes made

on the afternoon of 11-22-63, from KRLD Radio tape reels.

The reel was an interview by Jay Hogan of Mary Moorman and Jean Hill at

3:30 pm...on KRLD RADIO excerpts, Tape 5B and 6A at NARA.

I am excerpting from the lengthy transcript several relevant parts of the

interviews. Decide for yourself the importance of this first day evidence:

HOGAN:

Q: Hello, Mrs. Moorman?

A: Yes.

Q You took the picture just after the shooting, or just before?

A: Evidently, just immediately, as the. . . Cause he was, he was looking, you know,

whenever I got the camera focused and then I snapped it in my picture, he slumped over.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: About how close were you?

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more . . . Because I fall behind my camera.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: Were you up on that grassy bank there?

A: We stepped out in the street. We were right at the car.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: How many shots did you hear? You say "shots rang out".

A: Oh, oh, I don't know. I think three or four is what I, I uh, that I heard.

Q: Uh huh.

A: (continuing) that I'm sure of. Now, I don't know, there might have been more.

It just took seconds for me to realize what was happening.

Q: Yeah, uh, what as your first thought?

A: That those ARE shots. I mean, he had been HIT.

And that they're liable to hit me, cause I'm right at the car.

so I decided the place for me is to get on the ground (laughs)

Q: So huh, how did the president respond to this shot. I mean, did he just

slump suddenly?

A: He grabbed his chest, and of course, Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately,

and fell over him; and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

Q: Did you notice any other reactions...

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Uh, they hesitated just for a moment [referring, I believe, to the car itself,

rather than to the behavior of any particular individual--dsl] cause I think they

were like I was, you know--'Was that a shot," or was itj ust a backfire, or

just what? And then, course, he clutched himself and they immediately sped up,

real fast, you know, like--to get OUT of there. And, uh, the police, there were

several motorcycles around him; and, uh, they stopped, and uh--one or two must

of went with him, And one ran up the hill, and a friend that was with me ran up

the hill across the street from where the shots came from.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: It (shots) seemed fairly close by?

A: Yes, uh huh.

Q And form what direction did they seem to be?

A: Oh, Lord? North Just back there (at--laughs)

Q: Just just right at you?

A: Yes, sir.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: The sound popped, well it just sounded like, well, you know, there might

have been a firecracker right there in that car.

Q: And in your picture, uh, you took this picture just BEFORE the shot?

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Evidenty, at the minute ( means "instant" that he, that it hit him because,uh,

we was we was looking, at me, or I mean, he was looking, you know at the people

when my picture came out. They just slumped over, so I must have got it.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Yes, uh huh. You could see he's clutched, he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: Uh huh. And you and your friend Miss Hill, uh, were together there

at the scene. Was anybody else with you?

A No, uh uh.

Q: OK, well we sure thank you.

FROM HERE ON OUT, the interview continues with Jean Hill

This was posted here on the EF by Jack White from David Lifton Feb.07...

*******************************

I found this partial copy of an interview of Mary Moorman, in a search a couple of years back....

Mary stated she WAS in the street again, when she took her polaroid....in 1997......

While being interviewed by KRLD ....The interview was originally, and kindly provided by Debra Conway.....

Moorman: " UH, just immediately before the presidential car came into view, we were, you know, there was just tremendous excitement. And my friend who was with me ( Jean Hill ) we were right ready to take the picture. And she's not timid. She, as the car approached us, she did hollar for the president . " Mr.President, look this way !

AND I'D STEPPED OUT OFF THE CURB INTO THE STREET TO TAKE THE PICTURE. AND SNAPPED IT IMMEDIATELY .And that evidently was the first shot .You know I could hear the sound.And.

Jones: "Now, when you heard the sound, did you immediately think 'rifle shot'..?"

Moorman: "Oh no. A firecracker, maybe. There was another one just immediately following which I still thought was a firecracker. And then I stepped back up on to the grassy area. I guess just, people were falling around us, you know.

Knowing something was wrong . I cetainly didn't know what was wrong. "

B.........

Chris...there seems to be something phony about that recreation photo besides

the car not being the same angle. I have not done a comparison, but if that

is an UNCROPPED photo, the aspect ratio and the field of view both look dissimilar

to the view from the Model 80A. How about showing us a side-by-side comparison,

as well as a side-by-side comparison of the two cameras. Thanks.

Jack

Chris...I have just done the comparison I had in mind. IT PROVES THAT MOORMAN

WAS STANDING IN THE STREET!

I will ask Bernice to post it here.

Thanks.

Jack

**********************

Here you go Jack...

Best B...

In Hollands recall on the uTube he states that the smoke drifted out from those two trees..after mentioning

where the shot that he heard , came from, in that specific area..

From his testimony...

Mr. MORRISON - That is Elm Street. It would be behind the fence, wouldn't it?

Mr. HOLLAND - Well, I have got the fence running up here, and this car would be back in there [indicating]. This is the trees out here, which would--and that is approximately the same location as---the car and the trees that I saw the smoke would probably be the same location.

snip

Mr. HOLLAND - It was muddy, and you could have if you could have counted them, I imagine it would have been a hundred tracks just in that one location. It was just----

Mr. STERN - And then you saw some mud on the bumper?

Mr. HOLLAND - Mud on the bumper in two spots.

Mr. STERN - As if someone had cleaned his foot, or---

Mr. HOLLAND - Well, as if someone had cleaned their foot, or stood up on the bumper to see over the fence.

Mr. STERN - I see.

snip

Mr. STERN - And did you notice anything about this station wagon?

Mr. HOLLAND - I was in front of the cars, then I went in front of the cars.

Mr. STERN - In front of the cars---

Mr. HOLLAND - The cars they were parked pretty close to the fence, and I came up in front of the cars and got over to the fence and then walked back down looking around, just like the rest of them.

Mr. STERN - And that was later you came behind the station wagon?

Mr. HOLLAND - Oh, maybe 3 or 4 minutes after I got up there, and 3 or 4 minutes after I got up to the end of the fence.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/holland.htm

Below is Sam on the overpass, taken I believe in 1967.....He had a seemingly clear veiw of the fence area, and all....and perhaps even somewhat

better of the fence that day, Nov.22..63...as the trees and all had four more years of growth on them....when this was taken...

B......

As has been proven repeatedly ......by the Minion LN'rs..on the web.....who have either fallen for, through no fault of their own except in not having the capability of perhaps thinking for themselves, or with the same old mentality of going along to get along, appears again and again....Or in some cases are employed by said government, and or are paid off in some way, by those who do work for such, and are manipulated.....and therefore the pretense of not knowing of what they speak..continues....

Bernice, you didn't mention another very real possibility, and that is that some people look at the same information and just simply reach different conclusions. I realize this is very frustrating, it makes some people appear crazy in response, especially on internet forums, but it is a reality nevertheless. Just to give you one well-known, well-trodden example, look at the three tramps' arrest.

Some people absolutely, positively, without any fear of contradiction, know that Howard Hunt was one of them! But wait! Others are totally, soul-jarringly convinced it's Chauncey Holt! How can it be? Is someone lying? Taking an alternate position to spread disinformation? Employing a distraction technique?

Is it, as you suggest, an instance of someone not having the capability to think for themselves? Or having a go-along, get-along mentality? I think not. It's just a simple human behavior in all its glory.

In any event, CTs certainly won't win any converts by suggesting that those who believe differently are mentally challenged, constitutionally incapable or even criminally liable.

***************

Hi Mark:

Well that, as I stated was and is my opinion, and all have the right to theirs also....

I do think that positive documented evidence, such as autopsy photos, etc, and such is quite different from viewing a photo, and giving an opinion.

.......but to each their own.

With those who are being handled, the capability of being able to think for themselves mentally has been taken away, as they have a job to do..and those

that do not spend the time within the research and therefore do not know enough, and do go along to get along, ......well that is their responsibilty, not anyone elses.

It is out there...

Quote :""In any event, CTs certainly won't win any converts by suggesting that those who believe differently are mentally challenged, constitutionally incapable or even criminally liable.""

I did not suggest anyone was "" mentally challenged, constitutionally incapable or criminally liable,"" those are your words, Wow, glad they are not mine....and as far as converts, I am not in that business, I just try to get the information out there.....I would hope that people would think for themselves and not be manipulated...but...

Thanks for your opinion, carry on as they say.....

B...

IMO......

I have read in Bugliosi's.."Reclaiming History ".....3 pages on the subject of L.C.D.R William Pitzer and Dennis David...

...He has not, will not mention the name Alan Eaglesham, the one man, the one site on the web, who has all the latest up to date informative, research ...re William Pitzer .......amazing ....not.....

.....The same old, go around to get along....LNr, preaching the Gov. cover-up of never having included, near what has been uncovered, and is available......Only and specifically, what leads people to believe that the conpiracy researchers are in error.. again and again throughout his tome.

As has been proven repeatedly ......by the Minion LN'rs..on the web.....who have either fallen for, through no fault of their own except in not having the capability of perhaps thinking for themselves, or with the same old mentality of going along to get along, appears again and again....Or in some cases are employed by said government, and or are paid off in some way, by those who do work for such, and are manipulated.....and therefore the pretense of not knowing of what they speak..continues....

.......He, Bugliosi appears that he is now just like all the rest of them, a Government controlled hireling, pretending to be one of those "know nothing".....minions...

The cover-up distortion, manipulation, the lies by the continuing omissions continues.....but as we all must keep in mind...when

On Nov.24th, 1963, nearly 44 years ago...when Deptuy Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach, in a memo stated...

""It is importabt that all of the facts surrounding President Kennedy's Assassination be made public "In a Way" that will satisfy people in the United States and abroad that all the facts have been told and that a statement to this effect be made now:

That he did not have confederates who are still at large: and that the evidence was such that he would have been convicted at a trial.

Speculation Must Be Cut Off.......""

Bugliosi on Pitzer

by Allan Eaglesham

What words best describe

Vincent Bugliosi’s

coverage of the death

of LCDR William B. Pitzer

on pages 560–563 of the

endnotes for Reclaiming History?

Unscholarly, inaccurate, incomplete,

shoddy, biased…

Instead of discussing the salient features of the case, Bugliosi attacks the veracity of the “messenger,” Dennis David, who stated in a Waukegan, Illinois, News-Sun article in 1975 that he believed that Pitzer had been murdered in October 1966, possibly because of what he (WBP) knew of President Kennedy’s wounds. The lawyer impugns Dennis David’s honesty on the grounds that authors Harrison Livingston and Robert Groden stated that David claimed to have been present at the autopsy on President Kennedy’s body (whereas his name is absent from the HSCA list of those present). Here are the quotes from Livingstone and Groden [1].

"Dennis David, a medical corpsman present at the autopsy, was…"

"Dennis David, a witness at the autopsy, said…"

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Bugliosi/

B.......

""The fence slats were 3.5 inches in width according to Groden. The fence has been replaced several times over since the assassination and the newer slats are not the same. The average human face is between 8 to 10 inches in width. Gary Mack did a study on the fence in the late 90's. Gary wrote: " .... from research I did in 1995 and 1997.

The knoll stockade fence slats were 3" wide. The metal support posts were 80-84 inches apart on the parking lot side, but most were 81" apart. I did not make notes about specific distances for each post and all the posts have since been replaced in slightly different location. Initially, when the fence was installed a few years before the assassination, it was built with Michigan White Cedar wood, which was purchased in Dallas at Sears.""

Bill:

Could I ask you a couple of questions..

Gary says the metal support posts poles were approx 8o to 84 inches or so apart..most being 81inches.

In the photos I am enclosing below,

Sam and Mark Lane are seen somewhere approximately where Sam the smoke that day.... drift out from the fence..

from the other side of Elm St.

This would be in the area of approximately the third from the corner upright fence post....and would be approx.in the

range of 23 to 25 feet from the corner of the fence....

In the photo of Sam approaching the gas pipe......In this we see, what appears to be the fence metal poles upright

standing out as you peer down the fence line....each being approx 81 inches or so apart...

The third photo approximately where he and Mark Lane stood looking out towards the original lamp post, and sign.

Correct.?...Thanks for a reply...

B...

Jack:

Here is the next one...

Best B..

Hi Jack:

Some photo....

B...

I guess Bernice is out of pocket right now. In preparation for responding,

I suggest that all read TGZFH pages 259-289 and 199-206.

Jack

*****************

Hi Jack:

Here you go.....

Take care.........B

Randy Benson, a film maker and winner of a student academy award has released the first trailer of his upcoming film 'The Searchers', which tells the story of JFK assassination researchers.

The trailer features a clip of John Judge speaking on the Knoll on the 40th anniversary of the assassination of JFK in front of a 5,000 strong crowd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flg0DE2RrWw

John

**************

Thanks John:

The 40th anniversary, when at least a thousand attended the knoll..and more over the complete

week-end..

However the newspapers, reported a few hundred if any at all....

Same old...with the media...

Much appreciation for all the work you and all do in regard to the videos, they are of great value to all..

B...

I'd like to extend an apology to Michael Hogan, a member of this forum. On more than one occasion I said unkind things to him and about him. I was wrong!

David G. Healy

Well said, David.......

B..

Hi All:

Agreed on no censorship.......then on the other hand, the Mods will be damned if they do, and damned if they don't.....Which has already occurred.....terrible job being a Mod..

one of the most unthankful......The members on any Forum, who take such responsibility are far and few.....So give them a break also..

What I have seen so far has been well thought out, imo......before any action has been taken, and also the final decision is always left to the Administration...

What if, the offending post was deleted, if not relevant or was simply a bitchy type or personal attack type post....?? and not subject related in any way.....just a thought....but then there are those who will also say that is history also, so it is between a rock and a hard place....

Thanks B......

Bernice,

These are for you!!!!

Thanks!!!

Kathy

*****

Wasn't looking for anything let alone flowers, but thank you.........

.....Just reaching for a little thought provoking common sense....more than one way

to look at any subject...

Thanks B...

Hi All:

Agreed on no censorship.......then on the other hand, the Mods will be damned if they do, and damned if they don't.....Which has already occurred.....terrible job being a Mod..

one of the most unthankful......The members on any Forum, who take such responsibility are far and few.....So give them a break also..

What I have seen so far has been well thought out, imo......before any action has been taken, and also the final decision is always left to the Administration...

What if, the offending post was deleted, if not relevant or was simply a bitchy type or personal attack type post....?? and not subject related in any way.....just a thought....but then there are those who will also say that is history also, so it is between a rock and a hard place....

Thanks B......

Kathy,

I have never seen Harvey and Lee offered on Ebay(FWIW), and I shop there all the time. The only books I have seen offered there with regard to Armstrong's theory are DENIAL 1&2.

I don't think Andy at Last Hurrah has it either.(If he did, it would be few and far between.) All he had when I asked him were the DENIAL books.

Best bet is the DellaRosas.

I believe they are the only ones who have it available.

Kathy Becket

************

Kathy: FYI........

The only distributor of Harvey & Lee, is Shelby DellaRosa, exclusively.....it comes with a CD...

The book has nothing to do with the JFKresearch Forum nor it's administration.....

Andy at Last Hurrah does not carry the book.....

B.........

Bernice, I just learned that. I have the original manuscript, as I offered to proofread it. I meant well. And although you wear a halo around you but are always cutting into me, you don't know anything that transpired between me and him. And when you send him posts I made on this Forum, I believe that's illegal on this Forum. You're not supposed to take a post from here and post it on another Forum or send it to another Admin. I will complain to one of the moderators. You can be sure of that.

Kathy

**************

Excuse me Kathy:

That information that I have posted, about the H & L book, has been well known for years by members on the JFKresearch F, it is far from unknown..

If that is what you call, giving the correct info out on this board about said book, cutting into you.......so be it in your imagination..

I have no idea, about your insinuations, nor what transpired, and that is the way I choose to keep it..

B.......

I heard from the man whose name I'm not supposed to mention here. He had the entire post I made about Harvey and Lee and was very angry. And basically, I'm accusing you of meddling into my business and giving him that post. You're one of his spies. Or should I say Chief Informant?

Kathy

*******************************

Kathy:

I have no idea what your problem is, and that is your personal business......but apparently you have one. You give me way

too much credit in knowing what I do not...

I have read your post above and you have made some unfounded personal accusations towards me, which is against this forums rules...

There are many members who belong to many forums, registered here, as well as to the one I believe you are referring to....

I suggest you start a personal inquiry, of each......to get to the bottom of this, and see if and how many may have sent whatever, and that

should include yourself.....

You may have sent such yourself, seeing how you feel about, whom you call ""the man whose name

I'm not supposed to mention here""........simply because I nor anyone else do not know that you did not, to stir the xxxxe storm..for your

apparent personal reasons....and no ....you shall not be using me in the middle, to keep anything going.

I have nothing futher to say to you, on this subject as it is non existant, as far as I am concerned, as I have had little to say

in replys in the past to you, and you have shown once again the exact reason why..

Continue if you must..wasting resources...

B.......

Kathy,

I have never seen Harvey and Lee offered on Ebay(FWIW), and I shop there all the time. The only books I have seen offered there with regard to Armstrong's theory are DENIAL 1&2.

I don't think Andy at Last Hurrah has it either.(If he did, it would be few and far between.) All he had when I asked him were the DENIAL books.

Best bet is the DellaRosas.

I believe they are the only ones who have it available.

Kathy Becket

************

Kathy: FYI........

The only distributor of Harvey & Lee, is Shelby DellaRosa, exclusively.....it comes with a CD...

The book has nothing to do with the JFKresearch Forum nor it's administration.....

Andy at Last Hurrah does not carry the book.....

B.........

Bernice, I just learned that. I have the original manuscript, as I offered to proofread it. I meant well. And although you wear a halo around you but are always cutting into me, you don't know anything that transpired between me and him. And when you send him posts I made on this Forum, I believe that's illegal on this Forum. You're not supposed to take a post from here and post it on another Forum or send it to another Admin. I will complain to one of the moderators. You can be sure of that.

Kathy

**************

Excuse me Kathy:

That information that I have posted, about the H & L book, has been well known for years by members on the JFKresearch F, it is far from unknown..

If that is what you call, giving the correct info out on this board about said book, cutting into you.......so be it in your imagination..

I have no idea, about your insinuations, nor what transpired, and that is the way I choose to keep it..

B.......

Kathy,

I have never seen Harvey and Lee offered on Ebay(FWIW), and I shop there all the time. The only books I have seen offered there with regard to Armstrong's theory are DENIAL 1&2.

I don't think Andy at Last Hurrah has it either.(If he did, it would be few and far between.) All he had when I asked him were the DENIAL books.

Best bet is the DellaRosas.

I believe they are the only ones who have it available.

Kathy Becket

************

Kathy: FYI........

The only distributor of Harvey & Lee, is Shelby DellaRosa, exclusively.....it comes with a CD...

The book has nothing to do with the JFKresearch Forum nor it's administration.....

Andy at Last Hurrah does not carry the book.....

B.........

Hi Miles:

I took your photo below, Bell frame I believe, and lightened it, cropped.

I see the one RR spectator...........but do not see the

other on the right, closest to the end of the cement railng,...could be....

but then could also simply be shadows, I cannot make out a spectator.

Do you??

B......

I am no ones cavalry Miles, please do not imply such....I take no ones side in this,

except that Ed should receive the respect he is due, in being a witness...

..Whatever you and others beliefs in his memories are...are your own..........but..

...He is due that respect and it should never be implied that he may be lying by anyone, as has occurred in the

other threads on this same subject..........the witnesses

were there, none of us were......We have no idea, except what they have recorded for us...and they should be

always be respected for such....imo.....

If you look closely at the photos, aerial maps taken that day, you, and others, I believe might see

that there was brush, on the other side of the fence perhaps, as well as, a small tree, in that corner.. whatever was

growing in that area..that you mention above..

... possibley could have blocked the view, could be ?? I do not know for sure...But the photo you have taken was

done so in the 90s.....

Also IMO, those on the overpass, would not be looking towards the end of the overpass, at that time, their

eyes I would think would have been glued to the motorcade travelling below, as some stated, and or some, as mentioned to

the area of where the smoke was seen coming out from under the trees, that did happen, it

was reported by several........and is seen in the Wiegman film........it is real...

Whether some want to believe such or not, that is again their perogative..

The parking lot seems to be quite full IMO also, but there is room as seen to move between and around the

cars, it was not a solid mass, as you seem to want to imply......If so, no-one would ever have been able to proceed

in driving out from such after....which they did....As well we see on Sam Holland's map he has shown that there

was room in front of the cars to maneuver, and he has drawn the footprints in front of such.....showing there was

room to walk back and forth...at least in front of some.......

...Also keep in mind a car is approx five feet wide, and to be able to even open the doors

and get out, there needs to be approx two feet on each side, to do so........If not, no one would have been able to

get out and see any of the motorcade.....in the first place.....

The Harold Cabluck photo was taken from the last bus in the motorcade showing the Officer Haygood, I believe..

....I am under the impression it was the last vehicle in the motorcade.....it also does show a small tree right at the corner....

The overheads were taken by Jerry Cabluck that afternoon......

B..

Some of these may have been seen .... as we have been around this neverending bush before, but for those who may not have seen some of the photos of the parking lot, after the assassination........FWTAW..

B........

If Judyth knew any Oswald it was not Harvey, it was Lee...more grains of salt...imo...

It was Lee that had the licence and drove not Harvey.....

How could Marina be materialistic, Lee she didn't have anything, to compare it to in the first place...??

But those are also Judyths words within her book....that Marina was....

and not even enough to see a Doctor for a check up...and lived on also what others provided for them.

Check into Wiesberg, I believe they never spent more than $10.00 a week on grocery's, he did drop by

at the corner grocery store during the week, for milk and bread extra, and there if we are to believe

Judyth.....he was even helping her even pay her rent when first in N.Os.....but that's o.k..... sheesh....

See below for anyone interested.....there were clearly two who looked very similar....imo..

Laurel Kittrell, of the Texas Employment Commission, interviewed Harvey Oswald before he began work at the Book Depository on October 15. He told her he had come up from New Orleans. She described him as neat in appearance and articulate. He told her his first job was selling shoes. In 1956 he moved to Encino, California and worked 6 months a motorscooter messenger boy before he joined the Marines. Laurel Kittrell interviewed "Harvey Oswald", who first worked at Dolly Shoe in 1955, and wrote the infamous note to Warren Easton High School in October, 1955 stating "we are moving to San Diego". Her curiosity was aroused when Oswald told her he had lived in Russia and had a Russian wife. She noticed the woman with him was about to have a baby and remembered her as being quite short and wearing no makeup. During this interview, she asked him what he liked best about Russia. He replied "The opera".

A week later Oswald showed up for another interview. Harvey was then working at the T.S.B.D.. But Mrs. Kittrell realized this Oswald was not the same person she had interviewed before. The two Oswalds were very, very similar--but different people. She said, "the man I remember as (Harvey) Oswald, and the man I remember as the Teamster were much alike in size, shape and outline, generally, there was a marked difference between them in bearing and manner. The man I remember as Oswald was a trim, energetic, compact, well-knit person, who sat on the edge of a chair (Harvey). The man I remember as the Teamster, was sprawled over his chair and was rather messy looking (Lee)".

-- John Armstrong, 1997

Mrs. Kittrell gave a thirty-page statement to the U.S. Attorney in Dallas. Her statement was hand carried to the Warren Commission by the Secret Service. But her 30-page statement and subsequent 90-page manuscript in which she discusses her interviews of the two Oswalds, were ultimately ignored and suppressed.

-- John Armstrong, 1999

The FBI finally got around to interviewing Mrs. Kittrell on June 4, 1965. The U.S. government finally got around to allowing the American people access to her statement in 1994, more than thirty years after the assassination.

Shown below is an excerpt from two pages of her lengthy statement, which is FBI record no. 124-10057-10339; Agency file no. 62-109060-4052.

According to an FBI report located at the National Archives by Mr. Armstrong in May 1999, the FBI had tracked Oswald's return trip to the U.S. from Mexico City, indicating that Oswald took a La Frontera bus from Mexico City and arriving at the border town on Nuevo Laredo on the morning of 10/3/63. Noting that Oswald also applied for unemployment compensation at the Texas Employment Commission that same day, the report found it "highly improbable that Oswald could have traveled" the 426 miles "from Laredo, Texas to Dallas, Texas on 10/3/63, in time to appear personally" before Laurel Kittrell at the Texas Employment Commission. The agent who wrote the report was obviously unaware that two people were sharing the identity of Lee Harvey Oswald.

http://home.wi.rr.com/harveyandlee/Kittrell/Kittrell.htm

The official story of Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald's activities on November 22, 1963 is familiar to many. Since Harvey didn't drive and didn't have a driver's license, on the morning of the assassination at around 7:15 AM he walked the short distance to Wesley Frazier's house and rode with Frazier to the School Book Depository, where he stayed continuously until the early afternoon and was observed by many witnesses. The shirt he wore was variously identified as tan or, more often, brown.

Wearing a white shirt that day, the American-born "Lee" Oswald was seen at two different places early in the morning. In 1998, Mr. Armstrong described the sightings this way:

Lee Oswald --- 7:30 am, November 22, 1963 --- J.W. "Dub" Stark was the owner of the Top 10 Record Store located at 338 W. Jefferson in Oak Cliff. The store still exists and is across the street and a block and a half west of the Texas Theater. On December 3, 1963 SA Carl E. Walters wrote a memo to SAC, Dallas. The memo stated "On 12/3/63, Mr. John D. Whitten, telephonically advised that he heard Lee Harvey Oswald was in the Top 10 Record Shop on Jefferson on the morning of 11/22/63. Oswald bought a ticket of some kind and left. Then some time later, Oswald returned to the record shop and wanted to buy another ticket. Whitten requested that his name not be mentioned in any way, as it could hurt his business". News reporter Earl Golz confirmed this story in his interview with Mr. Stark (notes of Earl Golz). This story was further confirmed by Top 10 Record store employee Louis Cortinas, 18 years old in 1963, also in an interview conducted by Earl Golz (notes of Earl Golz). For interested parties, Dale Myers interviewed Mr. Stark in 1997. This interview is described on page 57 of Dale Myers book, With Malice.

Lee Oswald --- 8:30 am, November 22, 1963 --- Lee Oswald entered the Jiffy store, 310 S. Industrial, Dallas, TX., about 8:30 am. Fred Moore, the store clerk said "identification of this individual arose when he asked him for identification as to proof of age for purchase of two bottles of beer. Moore said he figured the man was over 21 but the store frequently requires proof by reason of past difficulties with local authorities for serving beer to minors. This customer said, sure I got ID and pulled a Texas drivers license from his billfold. Moore said that he noted the name appeared as Lee Oswald or possibly as H. Lee Oswald. As Moore recalled, the birth date on the license was 1939 and he thought it to have been the 10th month." (interview of Fred Moore by SA David Barry 12/2/63).

http://home.wi.rr.com/harveyandlee/November/November_22.htm

B......

What looks at first blush like some kind of citizen's arrest. Sure has a lot of folks looking in this direction. A clue anyone?

__________________________

Lee,

That largish, longish, whitish, nearly-vertical "thing" blocking our view of the left leg of the guy standing to the left of the tall dark-complected dude is interesting. Any idea as to what that white thing was?

Thanks.

--Thomas

__________________________

Hey Thomas.

Not 100% - I would hazard to guess that the individual to the left has on a pair of white pants and is taking a step forward and in advance of the individual at the right. That may work if the individual on the left was wearing an overcoat, or holding one draped over his right arm - just guessing. Can't help but wonder about this guy on the right. Maybe he's the same as what appears to be the man seen in the Towner lying prone on the ground. Lot's of maybe's - like maybe he's not being arrested but being helped. I don't know. Curious.

- lee

Pardon Moi, if this has already been posted or addressed, but it seems relevant in at least an FYI sense.....

At the 1969 trial of Clay Shaw, Jackson, Louisiana barber Edwin Lea McGehee testified about an incident he said had occurred "in the last of August or the early part of September," "along toward the evening." "I had my door open, the air-conditioning was off and it was rather cool," McGehee recalled. He testified that "an old," "battered," "dark colored car" drove up, and Lee Harvey Oswald stepped into his shop for a haircut.

The car "might have been dark green -- but the make of it I just couldn't remember, it was an old car, real old." It "resembled a Kaiser or a Frazer or an old Nash." ....... Lee have you entertained the idea of charting in table form, the suspicious vehicles in Dallas on November 22, 1963? It seems like it would be easier to follow, just an idea

*********************

Ron & Lee

From the other Paines station wagon thread......the Paines had three cars.....FWIW..

Harvey & Lee page 539 & 582....3 cars..

Ruth Paine described her car to FBI agent Bardwell Odum as a 1955 Chevrolet 4 door: 2 toned Green station wagon.

WC: Ex.2125: 2/29/64.

Lee Oswald may have driven this car to New Orleans in early September, while Mrs.Paine drove to the east coast in a Brown station wagon...- the same car was seen by Lillian Murret May 11/ 63 and by two FBI agents parked in front of 4907 Magazine in Aug.63..

WC 3119.

A man who identified himself as Lee Harvey Oswald , with a photo ID, had a 1955 station wagon serviced in New Orleans at A.R.Will's Service Sation about Sept.10th, 63......

********************

LHO Last Words...

Paines 3 cars.....

10:30 A.M.-1:10 P.M. Interrogation, Capt. Will Fritz's Office

"I said I wanted to contact Attorney Abt, New York. He defended the Smith Act cases in 1949, 1950, but I don't know his address, except that it is in New York. . . . I never owned a rifle. . . . Michael Paine owned a car, Ruth Paine owned two cars. . .

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html

B..

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=6673&st=45

B..