David Von Pein

And chomping into all those bones doesn't bother any of the southerners who eat such a sandwich? My gosh, I couldn't stand it. (Not to mention all the dental bills!) BTW, Joseph Ball of the WC [at 3 H 169] also seemed to think it was a bit strange to eat a sandwich with bones in it.

Oh, yes, I know. But it's still an insane thing to want to eat. And for dessert, how about a nice big piece of brick-and-mortar pie?! (A la mode, of course.) 😇

Since you've touched on the subject of Bonnie Ray Williams and the fact that he decided (for whatever reason) to litter the sixth floor of the Book Depository with the remnants of his lunch on 11/22/63....I hope everyone here won't mind if I indulge in a little bit of comic relief on the topic of Bonnie Ray and his Nov. 22nd lunch feast.... My favorite part of Bonnie Ray Williams' Warren Commission session [seen here] has always been his testimony about the chicken-on-the-bone sandwich that he said he ate for lunch when he was up on the 6th floor on 11/22. I can't help but chuckle whenever I run across that testimony. And so, just for fun, in the year 2010 (in this Usenet newsgroup posting) and again in 2016 (in this post at this EF forum), I decided to spread the mirth and merriment concerning Bonnie Ray's hard-to-swallow noontime meal in those two Internet messages linked above (and screen-captured below). P.S. -- If Bonnie Ray Williams is still with us here on this Earth, I want him to know that I'm not making fun of him. I'm only snickering at his choice of November 22 luncheon entrees, which should have made every dentist in Dallas County jump for joy due to the increased business Bonnie Ray's bone-riddled poultry delicacy surely supplied them.

But the same question I asked previously still applies. Especially when considering the repeated "I saw no strangers in the TSBD on Nov. 22" statements that exist within Commission Document No. 706 (aka CE1381)....

The question would then become: How did these two guys---dressed like cops!---get into the building and up to the sixth floor prior to the assassination without a single person noticing either one of these "cops"? And remember: the sixth floor was well-populated that day, with extra workers up there laying the new floor (up until about 11:45 AM, that is).

Oh for Pete sake, just because somebody (like myself, for example) thinks Lee Oswald was a lefty, a loser, and a lone assassin doesn't mean that the person believing those things is a member of the "Deep State".

FYI.... The author of this new book, Paul Roderick Gregory, provided testimony to the Warren Commission on March 31, 1964. His testimony can be found HERE. And Gregory's father, Peter Paul Gregory, also gave testimony to the Commission (on March 13, 1964). His testimony is HERE.

Thanks for that info, Pat. (And thanks to Barry Ernest too.) Knowing the evidence that exists against Lee Oswald as I do, my opinion is (and has been for many years) that Oswald did use those back stairs to flee from his sixth-floor sniper's perch, and he did somehow manage to walk between the raindrops (so to speak) so as to avoid being seen by anyone on any of the TSBD floors that he had to traverse in order to make it to the second-floor lunchroom by approximately 12:32 PM. And, IMO, the information supplied by Dorothy Garner does not and cannot exonerate Lee Harvey Oswald for the assassination of the President, given the evidence that exists against him. And if LHO wasn't the sixth-floor sniper, then the question needs to be asked --- How, then, did the real 6th-floor assassin(s) manage to avoid being seen by Garner, et al, in the minutes following JFK's murder? That is certainly a legitimate and valid question that has never been satisfactorily answered (IMO) by any conspiracy theorist.

Exactly. http://jfk-archives/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-87.html#The-Higher-Paying-Job

Oh sure, Jim. The judge would have tossed the case in the trash---despite the fact that every scrap of evidence up there on the 6th floor* pointed in the direction of Lee Harvey Oswald being the assassin (e.g., Oswald's rifle, his prints on the boxes in the Sniper's Nest, the CE142 paper bag with Oswald's prints on it, and the shell casings from LHO's gun). And yet Jim D. keeps assuring everyone that it's me (and not the conspiracy theorists) who resides in a world of fantasy. * Evidence which you think is all fake, of course. But that's another fifty arguments/threads.

Has Dorothy Garner ever been interviewed by anyone, Pat? (Beyond the very short "Stroud document", that is.) Did she ever give any details about exactly where she was located (in relation to the stairs) at 12:30 to 12:32 PM CST on 11/22/63? That would certainly be an important detail to know, don't you think? The Stroud document is indeed interesting. But before declaring Oswald innocent, I think a little more info is needed beyond just this one single sentence regarding Miss Garner in this June 1964 letter:

And, of course, the assassin of President Kennedy would have no reason at all to tell a lie....right Joe?

Sure. It was a very short "vigil", true. But nobody can possibly prove that Dorothy Garner had her eyes on this stairway in the northwest corner of the Book Depository Building (see floor plan below) for every moment of that (approx.) 120-second period (or however many minutes and seconds it actually was). Also --- Take a look at the small area of the 4th floor that we're talking about here (i.e., the stairwell area in the upper-left corner of the floor plan I've presented below). How much time do you think it would have taken Lee Oswald (or anyone) to have navigated that corner stairway as he quickly came down from the fifth floor? In other words, how long would Oswald have been in view of anyone on the 4th floor who happened to be looking toward the northwest corner during those few fleeting seconds? I'm guessing five seconds, tops. And after those few seconds on the corner "landing", he then would be totally out of sight of anyone on the fourth floor. I can easily envision a scenario which has the sixth-floor assassin (namely: a Mr. Oswald) avoiding detection as he swiftly rounds that stairwell corner and flees down those stairs toward the third floor. And, realistically, all he needs in order to do that is five measly seconds away from the gaze of any prying eyes (maybe even less than five seconds). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Related banter (via my saved discussions from 2013 and 2014).... JEAN DAVISON SAID: I have a question for anyone who accepts Vickie Adams' time line and believes that she came downstairs before Truly & Baker had reached the freight elevator on the 1st floor. If she's right, how does her story prove that Oswald didn't come down those stairs? In the WC version, Baker spotted Oswald just after each man had reached the second floor landing. That means that while Truly & Baker were rushing up from the 1st floor to the second, Oswald would've presumably been hurrying from about the 3rd floor to the 2nd. So where were Adams and Styles during that time, according to Adams? Already outside the building! Can someone explain how her time line prevents Oswald from using those stairs? DAVID VON PEIN SAID: It doesn't prevent Oswald from using those same stairs. And that is something I have also pointed out in my posts in the past: "I'll say this regarding Vickie Adams' timeline....The more I think about this subject, the more I realize that even if Adams DID descend those stairs as quickly as she said she did, that particular scenario really does no harm whatsoever to the "Oswald Did It" conclusion. Why? Because...then Adams and Styles very likely BEAT Lee Harvey Oswald to the stairs. Hence, it's likely that Adams & Styles were always AHEAD of Oswald on their descent down the stairs. And if Adams & Styles were really THAT fast at getting to the first floor, then they could have possibly beaten Baker & Truly too, with B&T only getting on the stairs after A&S had vacated the stairwell." -- DVP; February 17, 2011 COLIN CROW SAID: Did Adams and Styles descend before or after Baker and Truly ascended? DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Conspiracy theorists are defeated either way. If Adams and Styles descended BEFORE Baker and Truly started up the stairs, then there's absolutely no reason why Lee Oswald couldn't have used those same stairs without being seen or heard by the two women. Oswald would have simply been a little BEHIND Adams/Styles. And if Adams/Styles descended AFTER Baker/Truly started up, then the girls were on the stairs AFTER all three men (Baker, Truly, and Oswald) had already used those same stairs. Why is this so complicated for so many CTers? Regardless of which way the timing falls, there's no reason under the sun to conclude that Oswald couldn't have utilized those very same stairs in the northwest corner of the Book Depository Building and yet not be seen by Vickie Adams and Sandra Styles. The conspiracy theorists who try and use "timeline" estimates provided by witnesses to positively prove that Oswald couldn't have shot President Kennedy are relying on very flimsy "proof". Especially in light of all of that OTHER stuff that Oswald left behind on the sixth floor that indicates Oswald was, indeed, up there shooting at the President with a Carcano rifle. Also.... Can any CTer explain how the alleged "real assassin" (or assassins, plural)--i.e., an alleged killer OTHER than Lee Oswald--managed to get downstairs without anyone on ANY Depository floor noticing him/them? CTers never want to face that question of "HOW DID THE REAL ASSASSINS ELUDE DETECTION?" As long as Lee Harvey Oswald can somehow be exonerated via the flimsy "timeline" analysis, most CTers are happy. And to hell with the question I just asked above. ---------------------------------------------------------- Related Links: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/17359-new-book-on-victoria-adams-by-author-barry-ernest/ http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2017/05/tsbd-photographs-and-floor-plans.html

It sure is. Just because Robert Oswald doesn't believe that all of the evidence that exists against his brother is fake evidence, he apparently forfeits "any credibility" in the eyes of a conspiracist named Joseph. ~~SMH~~

I never once questioned Garner's eyesight. I'm questioning the idea that Dorothy Garner kept a continuous second-by-second vigil on the back staircase just after the assassination. Such a notion is ridiculous.

Only if a person wants to believe that Dorothy Garner had her eyes fixed on the TSBD staircase every single second just after the assassination. From a 2014 discussion: "Why in the world would anyone think Dorothy Garner had her eyes transfixed on the STAIRS every single second immediately following the President's assassination? How silly would that be, considering what had just happened outside those fourth-floor, SOUTH-SIDE windows just moments earlier? Why would she (or anyone) have kept a vigil on the staircase? Therefore, since it makes no logical sense to think that Garner (or ANYBODY ELSE) had their eyes peeled on those stairs every second, Oswald could have easily been on that 4th-floor landing for a matter of--what?--five seconds and not been seen by anyone who was on the same floor. Or do conspiracy theorists REALLY want to contend that Dorothy Garner never took her eyes off those stairs between 12:30 and 12:32 PM? That's incredibly silly to believe that's the case (even if she DID catch a glimpse of Truly and Baker)." -- DVP; Oct. 2014 http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/Adams & Styles

I've been wondering about that very thing for years now.... "Once we remove the notion that ANYONE planted Lee Oswald in the TSBD [Click], then where do you go with any type of "handler" theory? What did Ruth DO to advance the plot forward in the weeks prior to November 22nd? Was letting him stay at her house a few nights in October and November supposedly furthering the plot along? Teaching him to drive? Was that what Ruth's CIA bosses used her for? Fixing Lee potatoes and corn muffins on weekends? Was that her purpose? Just WHAT supposedly was Ruth's role?" -- DVP; September 2, 2014

And the witnesses who were there in the pantry of the Ambassador Hotel most certainly provide the proof that RFK was, indeed, "murdered". The autopsy alone certainly doesn't PROVE he was "murdered". And I never said the witnesses PROVED there was only one killer of RFK. I was just answering your initial inquiry, which was: "Ah, so was RFK murdered, David? In your opinion and if so based on what “evidence”?"

I agree, Pam! http://DVP's Classic Movies Website / Actor Index---Bette Davis

And---as usual---a conspiracy theorist (this time someone named Lowe) is more than happy to drag Mrs. Paine through the mud, despite a complete lack of something called "evidence" to support his ridiculous claim that Ruth Paine was an "intelligence operative". And yet this despicable evidence-free hobby of character assassination against Ruth Paine continues---year after year. Pathetic.

JOE ALESI SAID (at Facebook).... Max Good has learned that Ruth has now seen “The Assassination and Mrs. Paine”, and [Max] made a post on [The Education Forum]. I’m pleased to announce that not only have I been appointed as Ruth Paine’s Ambassador to the JFK community but could also be her “handler”. Ruth Paine, handler of Oswald, now has her own handler! I read this to Ruth yesterday and she burst out laughing.

AT FACEBOOK, JOE ALESI SAID: I saw Ruth yesterday [October 9, 2022] and informed her of the good work you are doing to knock down the lies and misinformation people like DiEugenio are spreading. The best part: She doesn’t even know who DiEugenio is. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Thank you, Joe, for telling Ruth Paine about my online posts supporting her. And I think it's good that Ruth isn't very much aware of who Jim DiEugenio is. She's probably better off not knowing much about him. If you see Ruth again, please give her my very best and let her know how much I admire and respect her. And if you want to provide her with a good laugh, show her this image (also seen below). Ruth might also get a kick out of our "Richmond, Indiana" connection (which, in part, is true; I was born in Richmond and was living there when Ruth visited that town in September of 1963): The original hilarious post written by "Dealey Joe" in 2010 can be viewed HERE.

Also: Advise & Consent, Easter Parade, and Mrs. Miniver. http://classic--movies.blogspot.com/2013/01/peter-lawford.html

Yes, indeed, he did. And that's one of my favorite Basil Rathbone/Nigel Bruce Sherlock entries. A lot of fun. [DVP Review.] http://DVP's Classic Movies Website/2011/09/Sherlock Holmes Faces Death Here's a screen capture of Peter Lawford in the Sherlock film. He's only 19 years old here: