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Everything posted by David Von Pein
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You just don't seem to understand Pat Speer's basic point. I think Pat is most definitely incorrect regarding his evaluation of the "McClelland / Left temple" matter. Pat is overstating the importance of this brief hospital admission note. Plus, after reading over that admission note again just now, it's fairly clear that Dr. McClelland does tell us, on Page 1 of the two-page admission note, that he did, indeed, see a large wound in President Kennedy's head when he says that JFK had suffered "a massive gunshot wound of the head". McClelland just didn't give the specific details concerning the exact location of where that "massive wound" was situated on the President's head. And I don't think that McClelland's reference to a "left temple" wound on Page 2 of his admission note is referring to the "massive gunshot wound of the head" that he mentions on Page 1. I think the (erroneous) "left temple" reference is meant to indicate the place on JFK's head where Dr. McClelland at that time (at 4:45 PM on 11/22/63) thought the bullet had entered the President's head. But at least I understand the basic point that Pat Speer is trying to get across (even though Pat is wrong, IMO). You, Sandy, apparently cannot grasp that point at all.
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What in the world are you babbling about now? I didn't "lie" in any of those statements that you quoted. They are all correct statements and, moreover, they are perfectly consistent with each another. So what is your point? [--Awaiting six-mile-long explanation from K.H., which undoubtedly will feature no "point" at all.--]
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And, of course, it is YOU (and you alone) who now gets to decide who has "lied" and who hasn't, is that it? And a member now gets punished for expressing his OPINION about a particular subject, eh? Pat seems to really believe that McClelland (in his initial report) was talking about a large wound in the left temple. I think Pat is dead wrong on this McClelland/Left Temple subject. McClelland's "left temple" reference, as you and others have correctly pointed out earlier, was referring to the alleged ENTRY wound that McClelland said was being pointed out by Dr. Jenkins. This was, of course, all just one big misunderstanding on McClelland's part. But Pat Speer evaluates this situation differently. And Pat's certainly entitled to his opinion....as am I and all other EF members. So what it boils down to is ---- You, Sandy, are penalizing Pat for having a different opinion than yours. Do you think that's fair?
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I was, of course, doing no such thing. I have never communicated the idea that I have ever thought that Dr. McClelland ever placed the large head wound anywhere except the far-right-rear portion of JFK's head. I have no idea how or why you have latched on to the goofy notion that I was trying to say that McClelland was placing the wound "over the ear" in the above screen captures from the 1988 NOVA program. I never said any such thing. You just decided to make that up (for some reason). Here's the way I set Keven straight when this same subject first surfaced here in January of this year: "I have no idea why Keven Hofeling is blasting me on the McClelland "hands-on demonstrations" topic. McClelland's "demonstrations" have ALWAYS placed the large "blow out" wound at the RIGHT-REAR of JFK's head (with very little variation). So where's the disagreement there, Keven? The disagreement comes, of course, when I point out the fact that Dr. McClelland was 100% wrong, as proven for all time by the HSCA-authenticated autopsy photos and X-rays, plus the Z-Film, which also proves that ALL of the witnesses who said there was a huge blow-out wound at the rear of Kennedy's head were dead wrong. But CTers like Keven Hofeling will, evidently, continue to pretend that the autopsy photos AND the X-rays AND the Zapruder Film AND the autopsy report AND the testimony of all 3 autopsy surgeons are ALL (in perfect tandem) fake/phony/altered/manufactured." -- DVP; January 24, 2024
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It's kind of fun watching two conspiracy theorists calling each other liars on a daily basis now. I'm enjoying it. Even though such accusations are, of course, in direct violation of one of the most fundamental rules of this forum. But I guess if you're a moderator (or two), you can get away with such infractions. And maybe that's why we can now write out the word LIAR at this forum without it being X'ed out. Perhaps the mods removed that restriction so they themselves can utilize that word more often and more freely (on each other). Nice. "No member is allowed to accuse a fellow member of lying." -- Education Forum Rules and Membership Behaviour * -------------------- EDIT --- The "lying" rule has now been changed to this (as of May 7, 2024 AM): "No member is allowed to accuse a fellow member of posting a falsehood without definitive proof of it being so."
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Well, Pat, let's assume just for the sake of this discussion that Dr. Guinn was, indeed, a big fat liar (as you apparently believe). I'd still like to know what you think the odds are of a multi-gun conspiracy taking place in Dallas, with bullets from more than just a single rifle striking the two limo victims, and yet, after the bullets stopped flying, NOT A SINGLE BULLET OR FRAGMENT from any non-Oswald gun turned out to be large enough to be tested in order to positively eliminate Oswald's rifle as the source for ALL of the bullets and fragments that hit any of the victims on Elm Street? I think that's an important "What are the odds?" question to ask, because that's precisely what did occur in this JFK murder case. No bullets or fragments exist in this case that were definitely determined to be from some OTHER non-Oswald gun. With or without any Neutron Activation Analysis entering into the discussion, what I just said above is a proven fact. And it's a proven fact that conspiracy believers should be a little concerned about. Wouldn't you agree? And the traditional CTer responses of "Nothing in this case can be trusted" and/or "Everything's been faked" are worn-out and unprovable responses that reek of conspiracy theorist desperation. Would you not agree, Pat?
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1. The Rydberg drawings are, of course, a total mess. Both of the entry wounds are in the wrong place. Those drawings are completely worthless and useless. But I think the Warren Commission was doing the best they could with what they had....i.e., the memory of Dr. Humes and the total lack of relying on the best evidence for the wound locations---the autopsy photos. The silliness of the WC's decision to not rely on or thoroughly review the autopsy photos still boggles the mind. A crazy, nutty decision to be sure. So, the LNers and CTers are therefore left to fight about the awful Rydberg drawings. 2. Re: the strap muscles and Arlen Specter's placement of those muscles. It's not that important in the long run, in my view, because the totality of the evidence indicates that the bullet which struck JFK in the upper back most certainly did make its way thru Kennedy's upper body without hitting any bone and without doing any severe damage to any internal structures in the body. And this is true regardless of the precise location of the strap muscles. Key Fact Reminder --- No bullets were found in JFK's body. That's a fact, and it's a fact that most certainly supports the idea that one bullet traversed the President's upper body from back to front. (And I don't think it's a very good idea to utilize Paul Landis' recent 2023 anti-SBT story. Here's why.) 3. Dr. John Lattimer's work on the JFK case was quite solid and factual (IMO). CTers, of course, totally disagree. Like Lattimer, I believe the bullet (CE399) did, indeed, traverse JFK's upper back and neck and emerge from the throat intact to go on and hit John Connally. No other alternative, IMO, comes even close to matching the known facts (and wounds) in this case. 4. Re: Dr. Vincent P. Guinn and his NAA studies --- Let's all ponder the "What Are The Odds?" question after probing Dr. Guinn's findings HERE. 5. Yes, in my opinion, the HSCA was most certainly incorrect in its assessment that JFK was showing signs of being struck by a bullet as early as Zapruder frame 190. And I think the proof that the HSCA was dead wrong about that timing issue can be found later in that same Zapruder Film, in frames 224 thru 226. Because if Kennedy was hit as early as Z190, then there's no way we'd be seeing JFK doing what he's doing with the hands as late as Z226. That jerking upward of his hands would certainly have occurred well prior to Z226 if he had been hit as early as Z190.
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Well, Pat, given the wholly-untenable alternative(s) that would have no choice but to be true in order for the Single-Bullet Theory to not be true, I do indeed believe that the SBT can be categorized as more of a "fact" versus merely a "theory". After weighing all of the possible options and alternatives, it couldn't be clearer to me that the single-bullet conclusion is by far the best solution. And it's rather incredible to me that so many people have such a hard time seeing the obvious truth that resides within those three controversial letters—S.B.T.
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I have frequently experienced that exact type of attitude being aimed at me by conspiracy theorists during the last 20+ years---at this forum and also at every other Internet forum I've joined since 2003---without exception. Most CTers I've encountered just simply cannot stand having their unprovable and untenable theories torn to shreds by anyone---be it an LNer or a fellow CTer like Patrick J. Speer. Such conspiracists prefer fantasy over reality (and facts). Sad indeed. But that's the way it is. At least that's been my experience since plugging in my first computer in September of 2000.
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All Playlists:
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Refresh.... http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2019/08/narrative-prepared-by-marina-oswald.html
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The Solar Eclipse In Dealey Plaza
David Von Pein replied to David Von Pein's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
FYI / Addendum / Eclipse Follow-Up.... A Mr. Brian Roselle took some spectacular still pictures of the April 8th eclipse from Lake Santee, Indiana (which is about 70 miles southeast of my location here in the Hoosier State). Brian today sent me this link to his incredible eclipse photographs: Addendum #2.... My brother took this video from my front yard during the eclipse: http://dvp-potpourri.blogspot.com/2024/04/total-solar-eclipse-april-8-2024.html -
Oh Cory...
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Of course the 11/4/63 FBI Airtel isn't forged. But Ruth's explanation is entirely reasonable and is not inconsistent in the slightest way with the Nov. 4 Airtel. What part of this sentence uttered by Ruth Paine don't you understand, Cory? ..... "I was not aware, hadn't taken in the idea of there being two buildings and that there was one on Elm, though I copied the address from the telephone book, and could well have made that notation in my mind but I didn't."
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Yes, of course Ruth Paine knew, weeks prior to the assassination, that Lee Oswald worked at the TSBD. She was made aware of that fact on the very same day he was hired there (October 15th): ALBERT JENNER -- "Did you hear from him [Lee Oswald] then either on the 14th or 15th [of October] in respect to his effort to obtaining employment at the Texas School Depository?" RUTH PAINE -- "He called immediately on Tuesday, the 15th, after he had been accepted and said he would start work the next day." But until Nov. 22, Ruth was not fully aware that there were two different TSBD buildings in downtown Dallas. And the explanation she gave to the Warren Commission concerning this matter (seen below) is a perfectly logical and reasonable and (IMO) believable explanation. But many conspiracy theorists who have a burning desire to drag Mrs. Paine through the mud and into an assassination plot of some kind obviously don't think this testimony given by Ruth is the slightest bit believable or credible at all: ALBERT JENNER -- "I heard you mention the Texas School Depository warehouse. Did you think the warehouse was at 411 Elm?" RUTH PAINE -- "No. I had seen a sign on a building as I went along one of the limited access highways that leads into Dallas, saying "Texas School Book Depository Warehouse" and there was the only building that had registered on my consciousness as being Texas School Book Depository. I was not aware, hadn't taken in the idea of there being two buildings and that there was one on Elm, though, I copied the address from the telephone book, and could well have made that notation in my mind but I didn't. The first I realized that there was a building on Elm was when I heard on the television on the morning of the 22nd of November that a shot had been fired from such a building." -------------------------- Repeating something I wrote on July 25, 2022: I think it's important to keep in mind that the Depository warehouse building on Houston Street that Ruth saw while driving on Stemmons was located very near Elm Street. It was only---what?---two blocks north on Houston. So the two TSBD buildings were, indeed, very close to one another. Given that fact, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible for someone casually driving on Stemmons to think that the "warehouse" building on Houston was located on Elm (or vice versa). Was Ruth supposed to keep track of all Dallas streets at all times and where things were located on those streets? Why would she have cared what street that warehouse she saw was on? And why would she have needed to commit such knowledge to memory? It didn't make any difference to her what street that TSBD warehouse was located on. The conspiracy theorists who think that Ruth Paine was involved in a scheme to plant Lee Oswald in the TSBD on Elm Street must think otherwise, of course. But I'm not wired with "Conspiracy" circuitry. So it's my view that the "Elm Street" address that Ruth did, indeed, write down in her address book (and see in the phone book) meant very little to her at all. And therefore there was no reason for her to concentrate on that address at all after jotting it down in her address book or seeing it in print in the telephone book. And, in fact, she pretty much told us that very thing in the above testimony. Lots More:
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Addendum / Clarification.... When I made the above comment yesterday, I was referring to JFK collections that are available ONLINE (i.e., via the Internet). There are some people who have private audio/video collections that far exceed my collection in total scope. Todd Kosovich being one such individual. In 2013, Todd sent me a long list of everything in his huge JFKA collection, and at that time he had 344 hours of A/V material from just the month of November '63 alone. And that doesn't count any documentaries, movies, anniversary specials, or any other "post-1963" material that Todd might have in his JFK archive. My current total is about 160 hours. So there's a lot more JFK stuff out there for sure.