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Posts posted by Scott Kaiser
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(i) You still didn't answer my question, I'm curious you say Sturgis was short, do you know how tall Sturgis was?
(ii) The problem I have with that is when you have to many people involved wanting to or contributing to an assassination you have to many cooks in the kitchen, someone is about to spill the beans if you're not careful. What I mean is that someone would have talked, take the Mob for example, someone is always wanting to be the top man on the totem pole, king of the mountain, always willing to whack the top guy so he the next guy could be (in charge). Its easy for word to get out on who is trying to kill the top dog, so the top dog has the guy whacked himself. To many people involved only spoils the account if you know what I mean, you can't have that many people involved without someone talking about it.
You have to keep a low profile, trust no one, there's a saying, those who are closest to you become your worst enemy, keep your friends close and your enemy closer.
Scott, here are my replies to your question and your comment:
(i) I've read rumors that he was medium height and rumors that he was shorter than average, but one way to know for certain is to obtain his Police mugshots and booking record from the Watergate break in. So, I've requested that; then I'll be able to tell you for sure how tall Frank (Fiorini) Sturgis really was.
(ii) I believe that we had so many cooks in the kitchen (so many people contributing to any assassination plot against JFK that they heard about). But they weren't all contributing to the same ground-crew!
Probably a lot of people believed that their hit squad killed JFK, and so their cash contribution was the deciding factor. But in reallity, it was only a fraction of that money that was successful, just as it was only a fraction of the hired 'mechanics' who actually killed JFK.
Although the ground-crew that actually killed JFK was professional, and so they would not have talked, this would not prevent liars and boasters from claiming that they were the ones who killed JFK. It is almost a boast today - not really a confession - for somebody to say that his crew was the crew that killed JFK a half-century ago.
Would somebody have talked? Actually, plenty of people talked -- but most of them are fake.
For example, I don't believe the mob killed JFK, because, as Jim Garrison said, they did not have the means to cover it up, or the proper sniper's modus operandi. Yet Sam Giancana was going to testify, and Johnny Rosselli was going to testify, and others, also. Why? For prestige, probably. But the people who put up the cash for these hit-squads would never let them sing - so they were both murdered before they could testify to the HSCA.
I think we agree, Scott -- the mob lacks the discipline of a long-term chain-of-command. That's why I believe the actual assassins were from a different school -- one with more discipline and more honor. The actual JFK assassins were probably trained marksmen with military discipline.
Best regards,
--Paul Trejo
(i) I've read rumors that he was medium height and rumors that he was shorter than average, but one way to know for certain is to obtain his Police mugshots and booking record from the Watergate break in. So, I've requested that; then I'll be able to tell you for sure how tall Frank (Fiorini) Sturgis really was.No need to go through the trouble, I'll tell you. My father stood at 5' 10". Frank was about four inches taller then my father. Frank would have stood at 6' 2", not short at all, by no means. Now,
I have a question for those who are researchers, I have searched and searched, I cannot find any public record or open testimony from those in Watergate, my father was called twice to testify on Watergate, my question is, can anyone find any information on my father's testimony or what he said at the Watergate Hearings, I would even be willing to pay you for your time and any services at any amount if that what it takes to find my father's information, can anyone please help me? Like I said, I'm no researcher and I don't know where to begin.
Scott
Lots of stuff here...
http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Watergate_Documents
David,
Thank you so much brother, I'll look through this and see if I can find anything on my dad, it means so much to me because that would have been my father saying something or testifying about something, and I'm hoping I can find something anything, would be nice.
Thanks again man!
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...My father stood at 5' 10". Frank was about four inches taller then my father. Frank would have stood at 6' 2", not short at all, by no means...
Scott
Scott, if Frank Sturgis was 6'2" tall, then the man standing to his right in the videos you kindly shared in this thread must be 6'8" tall, since he's much taller than Frank.
Is it possible Frank Sturgis wore high-heel boots in his later years?
--Paul
Paul,
I'm not sure if you've been missing any of my pass posts or you're just trying to give me a hard time, I really don't know what it is, and I thought perhaps you would have just let it go by now, but it seems you want to drag this on and for what reason? I really don't know, you're a reseacher why don't you find out yourself how tall Frank is. I really don't care to argue the fact of Frank hight. Is it not enough that (you) don't want to believe me? I guess it wouldn't help telling you that I knew Frank for nine years either would it? In that film, I'm telling you, its Frank Sturgis, Lee Harvey Oswald, Marita Lorenz and Gerry Droller aka Frank Bender, so how hard is that to understand? Or should I say what part of that don't you understand? UGH!
Sometimes we just need to except it when we're wrong and leave it alone, but not you! You want to drag this out and I'm okay with that, but in the end you're the one who is going to come out loosing on this one. When I'm wrong I except it and move on, I will go as far as saying I'm wrong. But that's not your intention, so what is?
And Paul, you can easily tell by looking at that film that the terrain is uneven. And yes, that white guy standing next to Sturgis looks like a tall skinny white dude, I'm sorry I don't know how tall he is, but it appears he does look taller then Frank. Perhaps, someone can find how tall Frank was, maybe you could ask James Hunt Frank nephew, maybe he knows or ask his step daughter, maybe you'll find it somewhere, but I'm telling you he was taller then my dad, I do remember.
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I found this to be very interesting, posted by Esther Howes in one of the Forums on Facebook.
Esther Howes
Excerpt from a letter from Billie Sol Estes' lawyer
August 9, 1984
Mr. Stephen S. Trott
Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division
U.S. Department of Justice
Washington, D. C. 20530
RE: Mr. Billie Sol Estes
Dear Mr. Trott:
My client, Mr. Estes, has authorized me to make this reply to your letter of May 29, 1984. Mr. Estes was a member of a four-member group, headed by Lyndon Johnson, which committed criminal acts in Texas in the 1960's. The other two, besides Mr. Estes and LBJ, were Cliff Carter and Mac Wallace. Mr. Estes is willing to disclose his knowledge concerning the following criminal offenses:
I. Murders
1. The killing of Henry Marshall
2. The killing of George Krutilek
3. The killing of Ike Rogers and his secretary
4. The killing of Harold Orr
5. The killing of Coleman Wade
6. The killing of Josefa Johnson
7. The killing of John Kinser
8. The killing of President J. F. Kennedy.
Mr. Estes is willing to testify that LBJ ordered these killings, and that he transmitted his orders through Cliff Carter to Mac Wallace, who executed the murders. In the cases of murders nos. 1-7, Mr. Estes' knowledge of the precise details concerning the way the murders were executed stems from conversations he had shortly after each event with Cliff Carter and Mac Wallace.
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(i) You still didn't answer my question, I'm curious you say Sturgis was short, do you know how tall Sturgis was?
(ii) The problem I have with that is when you have to many people involved wanting to or contributing to an assassination you have to many cooks in the kitchen, someone is about to spill the beans if you're not careful. What I mean is that someone would have talked, take the Mob for example, someone is always wanting to be the top man on the totem pole, king of the mountain, always willing to whack the top guy so he the next guy could be (in charge). Its easy for word to get out on who is trying to kill the top dog, so the top dog has the guy whacked himself. To many people involved only spoils the account if you know what I mean, you can't have that many people involved without someone talking about it.
You have to keep a low profile, trust no one, there's a saying, those who are closest to you become your worst enemy, keep your friends close and your enemy closer.
Scott, here are my replies to your question and your comment:
(i) I've read rumors that he was medium height and rumors that he was shorter than average, but one way to know for certain is to obtain his Police mugshots and booking record from the Watergate break in. So, I've requested that; then I'll be able to tell you for sure how tall Frank (Fiorini) Sturgis really was.
(ii) I believe that we had so many cooks in the kitchen (so many people contributing to any assassination plot against JFK that they heard about). But they weren't all contributing to the same ground-crew!
Probably a lot of people believed that their hit squad killed JFK, and so their cash contribution was the deciding factor. But in reallity, it was only a fraction of that money that was successful, just as it was only a fraction of the hired 'mechanics' who actually killed JFK.
Although the ground-crew that actually killed JFK was professional, and so they would not have talked, this would not prevent liars and boasters from claiming that they were the ones who killed JFK. It is almost a boast today - not really a confession - for somebody to say that his crew was the crew that killed JFK a half-century ago.
Would somebody have talked? Actually, plenty of people talked -- but most of them are fake.
For example, I don't believe the mob killed JFK, because, as Jim Garrison said, they did not have the means to cover it up, or the proper sniper's modus operandi. Yet Sam Giancana was going to testify, and Johnny Rosselli was going to testify, and others, also. Why? For prestige, probably. But the people who put up the cash for these hit-squads would never let them sing - so they were both murdered before they could testify to the HSCA.
I think we agree, Scott -- the mob lacks the discipline of a long-term chain-of-command. That's why I believe the actual assassins were from a different school -- one with more discipline and more honor. The actual JFK assassins were probably trained marksmen with military discipline.
Best regards,
--Paul Trejo
(i) I've read rumors that he was medium height and rumors that he was shorter than average, but one way to know for certain is to obtain his Police mugshots and booking record from the Watergate break in. So, I've requested that; then I'll be able to tell you for sure how tall Frank (Fiorini) Sturgis really was.No need to go through the trouble, I'll tell you. My father stood at 5' 10". Frank was about four inches taller then my father. Frank would have stood at 6' 2", not short at all, by no means. Now,
I have a question for those who are researchers, I have searched and searched, I cannot find any public record or open testimony from those in Watergate, my father was called twice to testify on Watergate, my question is, can anyone find any information on my father's testimony or what he said at the Watergate Hearings, I would even be willing to pay you for your time and any services at any amount if that what it takes to find my father's information, can anyone please help me? Like I said, I'm no researcher and I don't know where to begin.
Scott
Scott,
You say your father was called twice to testify on Watergate. Did he testify both times?
Thanks,
--Tommy
Yes he did, I'll attach the day and date he was called, here is some information you could go on, and Tommy if this is going to cost me anything or if someone is going to charge me please PM me at my private email at scott@kaiser-industries.com or this forum, and if we need to work something out or if I need to send you the money by Western Union I will, thank you for helping me in re-discovering who my father was, it means a lot.
Scott
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(i) You still didn't answer my question, I'm curious you say Sturgis was short, do you know how tall Sturgis was?
(ii) The problem I have with that is when you have to many people involved wanting to or contributing to an assassination you have to many cooks in the kitchen, someone is about to spill the beans if you're not careful. What I mean is that someone would have talked, take the Mob for example, someone is always wanting to be the top man on the totem pole, king of the mountain, always willing to whack the top guy so he the next guy could be (in charge). Its easy for word to get out on who is trying to kill the top dog, so the top dog has the guy whacked himself. To many people involved only spoils the account if you know what I mean, you can't have that many people involved without someone talking about it.
You have to keep a low profile, trust no one, there's a saying, those who are closest to you become your worst enemy, keep your friends close and your enemy closer.
Scott, here are my replies to your question and your comment:
(i) I've read rumors that he was medium height and rumors that he was shorter than average, but one way to know for certain is to obtain his Police mugshots and booking record from the Watergate break in. So, I've requested that; then I'll be able to tell you for sure how tall Frank (Fiorini) Sturgis really was.
(ii) I believe that we had so many cooks in the kitchen (so many people contributing to any assassination plot against JFK that they heard about). But they weren't all contributing to the same ground-crew!
Probably a lot of people believed that their hit squad killed JFK, and so their cash contribution was the deciding factor. But in reallity, it was only a fraction of that money that was successful, just as it was only a fraction of the hired 'mechanics' who actually killed JFK.
Although the ground-crew that actually killed JFK was professional, and so they would not have talked, this would not prevent liars and boasters from claiming that they were the ones who killed JFK. It is almost a boast today - not really a confession - for somebody to say that his crew was the crew that killed JFK a half-century ago.
Would somebody have talked? Actually, plenty of people talked -- but most of them are fake.
For example, I don't believe the mob killed JFK, because, as Jim Garrison said, they did not have the means to cover it up, or the proper sniper's modus operandi. Yet Sam Giancana was going to testify, and Johnny Rosselli was going to testify, and others, also. Why? For prestige, probably. But the people who put up the cash for these hit-squads would never let them sing - so they were both murdered before they could testify to the HSCA.
I think we agree, Scott -- the mob lacks the discipline of a long-term chain-of-command. That's why I believe the actual assassins were from a different school -- one with more discipline and more honor. The actual JFK assassins were probably trained marksmen with military discipline.
Best regards,
--Paul Trejo
(i) I've read rumors that he was medium height and rumors that he was shorter than average, but one way to know for certain is to obtain his Police mugshots and booking record from the Watergate break in. So, I've requested that; then I'll be able to tell you for sure how tall Frank (Fiorini) Sturgis really was.No need to go through the trouble, I'll tell you. My father stood at 5' 10". Frank was about four inches taller then my father. Frank would have stood at 6' 2", not short at all, by no means. Now,
I have a question for those who are researchers, I have searched and searched, I cannot find any public record or open testimony from those in Watergate, my father was called twice to testify on Watergate, my question is, can anyone find any information on my father's testimony or what he said at the Watergate Hearings, I would even be willing to pay you for your time and any services at any amount if that what it takes to find my father's information, can anyone please help me? Like I said, I'm no researcher and I don't know where to begin.
Scott
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The Rockefeller Commission of the U.S. Congress in 1974 investigated Sturgis and E. Howard Hunt in connection with the 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Specifically, it investigated allegations that E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis were CIA agents and were present in Dallas at the time of the assassination and could have fired the alleged shots from the grassy knoll. Some support for Hunt's involvement came from Kerry Wendell Thornley, who believed he had conversed with Hunt (who Thornley claimed used the alias "Gary Kirstein") on numerous occasions from 1961 to 1963 regarding plans to assassinate John F. Kennedy. Newsweek magazine reported and printed photographs of three men, including two supposedly resembling Hunt and Sturgis, who were detained at the grassy knoll shortly after the assassination. The Newsweek article stated the official reports that the men were released and were only "railroad bums" who would find shelter sleeping in the boxcars of the trains located near the grassy knoll. According to Newsweek, the men were released without further inquiry.
According to the 1975 Rockefeller Commission report, Hunt testified that he had never met Sturgis before they were introduced by Bernard Barker in Miami in 1972. Sturgis testified to the same effect, except that he did not recall whether the introduction had taken place in late 1971 or early 1972. Sturgis further testified that while he had often heard of "Eduardo," a CIA political officer who had been active in the work of the Cuban Revolutionary Council in Miami prior to the Bay of Pigs operation in April 1961, he had never met him and did not know until 1971 or 1972 that "Eduardo" was E. Howard Hunt.
In a deathbed statement released in 2007, Hunt named Sturgis as one of the participants in "The Big Event", which Hunt's son claims to be the code name for the assassination. However Hunt never mentions Kennedy, Oswald, Dallas, or the assassination in any way in the "confession".
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Whenever we get quotes from Presidents or their Aides in black and white in reference to this conspiracy or any historical event, it's always intriguing.
I've never bought the reason LBJ didn't run for re-election was just solely Vietnam. My own theory is that RFK did his own investigation, got some of his contact in the government to press LBJ on it, and if they did find that LBJ was involved in any way, they threatened him with Impeachment. Of course, especially back then, they were not going to embarrass the President or the Office of POTUS. So maybe LBJ was told by the Kennedy people or AG/Justice Dept. that declining to run would save him a public trial. And that he would be under secret house arrest for the rest of his life as long as he stepped away quietly. And that his legacy would not be tarnished if he accepted this deal.
I know it all sounds like an episode out of '24', but maybe that's the way it happened.
But they in power will still not tell us the truth. The only reason I can ponder is that the truth is so disturbing that they will just not tell us. Say if it was LBJ behind it, I can see why. Why tarnish the office, it would be embarrassing for the nation. We would just be another Banana republic. Or there is something even greater that they think we can't handle.
I think everybody here has their own theory, and there is nothing wrong with that so long as no one is trying to shove their theory down my throat, like Mr. Von for example, I respect his work as I do everyone else's. I am not a reseacher, or a CTer what ever that means, or a lone nutter, or an Oswald did it kinda guy. I'm me, with a personal vendetta.
But, that doesn't mean I can't express my thoughts, I beleive that if LBJ was the person behind the assassination he wouldn't have been so worried about who may be out to assassinate him. I beleive that LBJ created the cover-up hence the Warren Commission and wanted to put this to rest hoping that the American people would buy into what the Commission tried to sell in a short nine month period. That's my take on LBJ for JFK and I'm.
Scott Kaiser
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Lot of fireworks here, but also some good information.
I too was always interested on how the motorcade worked in Dallas. But also was intrigued that other motorcades like like Mr. Von Pein has provided were similar in secret service protection. Since the Secret Service had done so many different motorcades for JFK before Dallas, does anyone have information why this motorcade protection was used in this motorcade vs that motorcade?
Now here's my take on what happened in Dallas. Mind you this is all speculation, I have no real evidence to back it up, but thought I'd throw it out there for the members to debate about.
So from the evidence we have, we know that JFK was being hunted down for assassination by Somebody/Something in Chicago and Tampa, 2 visits before Dallas. In Chicago, he had to cancel the trip when someone named Lee (got this off Tablot's book) informed the secret service of an assassination plot similar to Dallas (sniper from building behind motorcade - again from Talbot's book). So Chicago trip was cancelled.
Now in Tampa, same situation. Someone tipped off the FBI and the Secret Service was informed and packed the motorcade with many agents. Agents on the car, Agents all around the President, and some accounts (Tablot's book), the Secret Service went crazy when JFK brazenly met the crowd.
So we have that background from the evidence/reports the Secret Service has released thru the last 10-15 years.
Now Dallas. I need someone to confirm this, but I had thought I read information maybe 5-10 years back that the secret service got a notification of a bomb at Love field when the President landed. I know I've heard this before, but i'm not sure if it was from a official source or some independent research. So let's paint the picture if this is true. JFK land at Love Field, the Secret Service is on guard for this threat, and after the president is safely in the car, the threat passes, or they assume. Maybe even JFK swiping his hair when you see him get inside the car almost has a 'whew....' feel to it. Now the secret service, thinking that the threat has passed without incident at Love field, go ahead and naturally have their guard down for the rest of the motorcade. And why not? They've been on so many motorcades with JFK, it's just routine. Then you get to Daley Plaza. The Secret Service, again, just another routine motorcade, easy as pie, maybe not as ready and on guard as they should be, stroll into the kill zone. Then a shot rings out, and the sense of complacency, the 1 or 2 seconds lost of reacting , cost the President his life.
Now do I think the Secret Service was in on it? I don't know. But you don't need many people to participate in your conspiracy. One conspirator is enough to act as the weakest link in the chain that breaks the cohesiveness of a efficient working unit.
Was the bomb story, if true, planted by the conspirators to actually achieve what occurred? Some of you brilliant researches maybe will find that out in the years to come.
This is all interesting information, I know that Abraham Bolden touches on this subject quite a bit and blames the Secret Service for not doing their job, and for their late nite drunken stupors and dollar poppin strippers at the clubs they decided to visit the nite before giving Kennedy their full attention and protection allowing the unspeakable to happen. Mr Bolden makes it sound as though they were a bunch of thoughtless, reckless, irresponsible, negligent cast of characters. However, I'm sure that Gerald Blaine would say different.
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1. I'm curious you say Sturgis was short, do you know how tall Sturgis was?
2. That doesn't mean there is a problem with [Marita's] story, just because Hemming said something else, the question is which one do you beleive, or should I say, which one is telling the truth?
3. Do you have proof of Oswald in Mexico?
4. So that's where the money came from [HL Hunt], I should have known.
Scott, here are my replies to your questions and remarks:
(1) My measurements were relative: (i) Howard Hunt was very tall compared to Sturgis; and (ii) the tramp who looked like Sturgis was very tall compared to the tramp who looked like Howard Hunt. Therefore there was no match.
(2) I agree with you that either Marita Lorentz or Gerry Hemming were lying about who was on the caravan. I don't know who was lying. When the late Gerry Hemming was on this Forum, he blatantly called Marita a xxxx. Yet in another context he softened his voice and admitted that he was invited to join the caravan. My point was that if (and only if) Marita was lying about Hemming, then she could have also been lying about Oswald. It is also possible that Marita was lying about Hemming and telling the truth about Oswald. (It is also possible that Marita was telling the truth about Hemming but lying about Oswald.) But if (and only if) Marita was telling the truth, then Hemming was lying.
But please remember that Marita was not an eye-witness to the JFK assassination - she was only an eye-witness to an illegal weapons deal, which she claims was consummated by Howard Hunt (and Howard Hunt did not have a believable alibi for that day, according to a duly appointed jury). So, even if Marita was telling the truth, we are left to guess whether these weapons were the weapons used to assassinate JFK, and whether these sharpshooters were the sharpshooters that assassinated JFK. She had no eye-witness information about that.
(3) While I am not an expert on the controversy over Oswald in Mexico, we have a Forum member (Harry Dean) who has also joined this thread, whose memoirs say that the famous war hero, Guy Gabaldon, was in Mexico at that time, working for the JBS, and that Gabaldon gave some money to Oswald in Mexico at that time. Oswald had no idea, according to Harry Dean, that the money came from the JBS, or that this money was buying Oswald's services as the patsy for a famous crime.
(4) The money for the dozens of hit squads who promised to kill JFK for a price came from many different sources, according to my reading. Some money came from Carlos Marcello. Some came from Santos Trafficante. Some came from Sam Giancana. Some possibly came from Howard Hughes (since his accountant coordinated all the Mafia money). Some money came from Howard Milteer, some money came from Jimmy Hoffa, some money came from H.L. Hunt, and some money came from the JBS, according to sources. There were probably hundreds of rich individuals and groups that contributed whatever they could, because they truly, sincerely believed that JFK was a communist traitor to the USA. H.L. Hunt was particularly generous, according to reports.
Best regards,
--Paul Trejo
Scott, here are my replies to your questions and remarks:You still didn't answer my question, I'm curious you say Sturgis was short, do you know how tall Sturgis was?
When the late Gerry Hemming was on this Forum, he blatantly called Marita a xxxx.
I certainly wouldn't believe everything that came out of Hemmings mouth, several people I know who knew Hemming personally would agree, most of his time was spent behind a computer talking a lot of crap, you don't have to beleive me, but I beleive those who knew Hemming well. Hell he got paid $65,000 for an interview by Noel Twyman who gave Twyman nothing but a whole lot of crap.
(4) The money for the dozens of hit squads who promised to kill JFK for a price came from many different sources, according to my reading. Some money came from Carlos Marcello. Some came from Santos Trafficante. Some came from Sam Giancana. Some possibly came from Howard Hughes (since his accountant coordinated all the Mafia money). Some money came from Howard Milteer, some money came from Jimmy Hoffa, some money came from H.L. Hunt, and some money came from the JBS, according to sources. There were probably hundreds of rich individuals and groups that contributed whatever they could, because they truly, sincerely believed that JFK was a communist traitor to the USA. H.L. Hunt was particularly generous, according to reports.The problem I have with that is when you have to many people involved wanting to or contributing to an assassination you have to many cooks in the kitchen, someone is about to spill the beans if you're not careful. What I mean is that someone would have talked, take the Mob for example, someone is always wanting to be the top man on the totem pole, king of the mountain, always willing to whack the top guy so he the next guy could be (in charge). Its easy for word to get out on who is trying to kill the top dog, so the top dog has the guy whacked himself. To many people involved only spoils the account if you know what I mean, you can't have that many people involved without someone talking about it.
You have to keep a low profile, trust no one, there's a saying, those who are closest to you become your worst enemy, keep your friends close and your enemy closer.
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...Howard Hunt only says he was a benchwarmer on the big event, I'm sure H.L. Hunt must have played a bigger roll.
Scott
That's another good question, Scott; how big a role did E. Howard Hunt play? On his deathbed he claimed to play a minor role, so that's fairly good evidence that he was at least involved. But how big was his role?
A lot of our suspicions about E. Howard Hunt are centered in the landmark legal decision won by Mark Lane as described in his book, Plausible Denial (1992). Lane convinced a jury that E. Howard Hunt was involved in the JFK assassination to some degree, based mainly on the evidence of Marita Lorentz.
Marita's story is to some degree documented in the videos you uploaded earlier today on this thread. She said that she joined Frank Sturgis and a number of rogue CIA operatives and stooges in a weapons smuggling operation in late November 1963, starting from Florida and ending in Dallas, Texas.
Mark Lane made her sound believable. She further claimed that the purchaser of these weapons was none other than E. Howard Hunt, who went by the code-name, "Eduardo."
Yet there are problems with her story. She also named Lee Harvey Oswald and Gerry Patrick Hemming as two of the men involved in that smuggling caravan. Yet Hemming (when he was a member of this Forum) denied that he was in that caravan!
It is true that Hemming admitted that he was invited to join the caravan, and that he knew the caravan existed -- but he firmly denied riding in the car, as Marita claimed he did.
So - if Marita lied about Hemming's participation, then she could have lied about Oswald's participation, too. (And for the record, that person standing behind Frank Sturgis in those videos you kindly shared -- that doesn't look like Oswald to me.)
I'm not saying that Oswald wasn't in that caravan -- I have no proof for my theory yet -- but this is after all the week that Oswald should have been in Mexico with Nagell, trying to get into Cuba, wasn't it?
Now, E. Howard Hunt claims to be a benchwarmer. I believe that is correct -- he was not one of the three tramps as some writers have claimed. (The two tramps that look a little like Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis have a major difference -- the tramp who looked like Hunt was short, but Hunt was tall; and the tramp who looked like Sturgis was tall, but Sturgis was short. No match.)
Because E. Howard Hunt knew so many of the conspirators, he was an accessory after the fact -- his main crime was his silence. (The same applies, also, to David Atlee Phillips, whose main role was to obtain lots of cash for Alpha 66 and similar counter-revolutionary groups. He knew what was going on, but he only offered minor help here and there, in response to rare requests from the major players, IMHO.)
Yes - H.L. Hunt was far more involved. For one thing, when E.H. Hunt and D. Atlee Phillips wanted cash for their operations, they often got it from H.L. Hunt, anyway.
Unlike the rogue CIA guys who were in the game for the money and the machismo, and who had no firm ideological beliefs of any kind, and whose loyalties could often go to the highest bidder, H.L. Hunt was totally committed to his ideology. For Hunt, and for all JBS extremists, JFK was a communist, a traitor, and worked for the aid and comfort of the USSR. The conspiracy was only the patriotic thing to do.
What H.L. Hunt needed was somebody at the ground-level -- somebody with real military connections -- somebody with a real zeal to get the job done. Somebody who had nothing more to lose. (Remember, when Edwin Walker resigned from his post as Major General, he gave up his military pension! He was angry! He was penniless!)
My current theory: It was General Edwin Walker -- financed by H.L. Hunt and supported by probably 100 field operatives, including violently anti-communist foreigners from Cuba, Germany and Russia, but mostly from the extreme right-wing in Dallas, USA.
Best regards,
--Paul Trejo
the tramp who looked like Hunt was short, but Hunt was tall; and the tramp who looked like Sturgis was tall, but Sturgis was short. No match.I'm curious you say Sturgis was short, do you know how tall Sturgis was?
Yet there are problems with her story. She also named Lee Harvey Oswald and Gerry Patrick Hemming as two of the men involved in that smuggling caravan. Yet Hemming (when he was a member of this Forum) denied that he was in that caravan!That doesn't mean there is a problem with her story, just because Hemming said something else, the question is which one do you beleive, or should I say, which one is telling the truth?
but this is after all the week that Oswald should have been in Mexico with Nagell, trying to get into Cuba, wasn't it?Do you have proof of Oswald in Mexico?
Yes - H.L. Hunt was far more involved. For one thing, when E.H. Hunt and D. Atlee Phillips wanted cash for their operations, they often got it from H.L. Hunt, anyway
So that's where the money came from, I should have known.
My current theory: It was General Edwin Walker -- financed by H.L. Hunt and supported by probably 100 field operatives, including violently anti-communist foreigners from Cuba, Germany and Russia, but mostly from the extreme right-wing in Dallas, USA.
Could be!
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Felix Rodriguez would know all about Bush/Clinton/CIA/Oliver North drug smuggling of the 1980's.
He would know about Barry Seal.
He would know about Che Guevara and a bunch of things that have not been made public.
He would probably know about the Phoenix program in Vietnam.
He would probably have a very good idea about who murdered John Kennedy. Who knows, HE may have been involved in the JFK assassination.
I don't know about any of that stuff, or what you're talking about, interesting nevertheless.
Just as an Fyi:
Felix Rodriguez (aka "Max Gomez") was the one trying to get Bill Clinton's favorite state trooper to assassinate Terry Reed down in Mexico. Bill Clinton had gotten L.D. Brown into the CIA. They, meaning Rodriguez, North and the Bush family, wanted to "dirty up" Bill Clinton, by having his favorite state trooper commit crimes.
Clinton had talked Terry Reed into going to Mexico; I think he may have been knowingly or unknowingly setting up Reed to be assassinated (ironically by his own favorite state trooper L.D. Brown).
They (meaning Rodriguez and the CIA) wanted to murder Terry Reed (I guess they thought he knew too much about Iran-contra and the drug smuggling) down in Mexico because it is easier to get away with murder out of the USA.
L.D. Brown's book: "Crossfire: Witness in the Clinton Investigation" (1999)
Terry Reed went on to write the epic underground blockbuster book:
"Compromised: Bush, Clinton and the CIA" (1994) which sold 200,000 books purely by word of mouth. http://www.amazon.com/Compromised-Clinton-Bush-Terry-Reed/dp/1561712493/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329184971&sr=1-1
There is no telling what Felix Rodriguez has done: assassinations, drug smuggling, a whole range of criminal activity for the CIA. I am sure if you ask Rodiguez why he hates Castro he would tell you because he is a crook who has killed people ...
Here is Felix Rodriguez' book "Shadow Warrior: the CIA Hero of a Hundred Unknown Battles" (1989) He wrote that book just a few years after trying to murder Terry Reed.
I want to know all the stories Rodriguez did NOT put in his book:
I bet Rodriguez knew Gen. Ed Lansdale and David Morales personally. They may have all been working on murdering John Kennedy in Dallas. Ditto his relationship with George Herbert Walker Bush - ditto Dallas.
Felix said that? I don't think Felix wrote that, I think someone else did, that seems to be to much information that Felix would say, I don't know about any of that sorry.
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...E.H Hunt was "Eduardo" to the anti-Castro groups and during the Bay of Pigs, in fact many knew him by his real name, even during the Bay of Pigs. In fact Sturgis knew E.H. Hunt since 1954 during the Guatemalan coup. He only adopted that name "Eduardo" while he was involved with the Cubans in South Florida.
Mark Lane describes this letter as a possible forgery while being very skeptical, and in 1999, the note was revealed to be a "Soviet forgery" in a book by KGB defector Vasili Mitrokhin. perhaps written by the Russians. Why would any Russian write this? But should it be taken at face value? The House Select Committee on assassinations had three handwriting experts examine the note to determine its authenticity. I do beleive that someone in the KGB is seeking notoriety by adding one more book to the all ready long list.
The writing and signature of that letter and the entire of Lee in my father's phone book are nearly identical, am I to beleive that because some Soviet KGB says its a "Soviet forgery" am I suppose to beleive him? If in fact this letter is authenticate and sense Lee was a Marxist who as an individual would develop his own capacities and talents. I say Oswald may have been swinging both ways, on one hand he was anti-Castro, but on the other he was pro-Cuba. So what does that say about a confused young man? I don't beleive that letter had anything to do with H.L. Hunt. There is ample information/evidence that Oswald visited South Miami where he may have encountered Howard Hunt, which makes sense, but I seriously doubt that Oswald and H.L. Hunt who calls himself the richest man in the world would be rubbing elbows...
Scott
Scott, thanks for bringing up the doubts by Mark Lane, one of the great writers on this topic since the days of the Warren Commission. I tend to think that letter was a forgery, too, since it is a little too blatant.
Why would the KGB want to forge evidence linking Oswald to HL Hunt? For one thing, as LBJ himself said to Senator Russell when twisting his arm to join the Warren Commission, some people were claiming that the USSR killed JFK, and wanted to lead the USA into an immediate showdown with the USSR. But LBJ said, "we know that Khrushchev didn't have a damn thing to do with it."
Well, the USSR were terrified that the extreme right-wing in the USA would use the assassination of JFK as an excuse to drop the bomb on the USSR (Dr. Strangelove style). Also, the Soviet press already announced their guess - that the extreme right-wing in Dallas, led by HL Hunt, was behind the JFK assassination.
Therefore, the motive for the KGB to forge this letter by Oswald, asking "Mr. Hunt" for some money or for a meeting, is not difficult to put together. If Mark Lane thinks it was a forgery, and it sounds like a forgery (and it didn't show up until months later), then I tend to think it was a forgery.
However, handwriting analysts say the handwriting is too close to be a forgery. So, it might be authentic. Oswald was a money-grabber, I believe. (This is why he liked hanging out with George DeMohrenschildt, and also with Clay Shaw. He was hoping that being a mercenary would one day pay off big time.)
So, if (and only if) the letter is authentic, then I still believe Oswald would have addressed E.H. Hunt by his CIA alias instead. It's an intriguing question.
Best regards,
--Paul Trejo
You may very well be right, what am I thinking? Perhaps, Oswald did or did not write that letter, and there would be no reason for Oswald to write that to Howard Hunt.
Howard Hunt only says he was a benchwarmer on the big event, I'm sure H.L. Hunt must have played a bigger roll.
Scott
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Felix Rodriguez would know all about Bush/Clinton/CIA/Oliver North drug smuggling of the 1980's.
He would know about Barry Seal.
He would know about Che Guevara and a bunch of things that have not been made public.
He would probably know about the Phoenix program in Vietnam.
He would probably have a very good idea about who murdered John Kennedy. Who knows, HE may have been involved in the JFK assassination.
I don't know about any of that stuff, or what you're talking about, interesting nevertheless.
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Excellent work, Rob. What is very bizarre how less than two days after the assassination he has found so many holes in the story, which at that time had barely even been created. He was probably very familiar with assassination attempts and the stories behind them.
He was probably very familiar with assassination attempts and the stories behind them.I have not completely ruled out Castro knowing something before hand of Kennedy's assassination, as my friend Jose Pujol puts it so passionately, he thinks Castro was involved, others who have fought Castro and plotted to assassinate him said, "I don't think Castro was involved directly, but he help by incorporating something".
Scott, you can learn a lot from these people. Keep interviewing them. They will give you lots of information. They will reveal stuff that they don't know the significance of what they are revealing.
People live in their fantasy worlds of propaganda - whether it is the anti-Castro Cubans hate Castro so much they can't think straight, the JFK groupies who can't come to terms with his sexual promiscuity, or Democrats who don't think Bill Clinton ever raped anybody, or Republicans who think the Bushes and Oliver North never ran huge amounts of cocaine in the 1980's, or people subject to only Cuban propaganda or people who think the New York Times would never lie to them, or people who think 9/11 was an "inside job" and all they consume is Alex Jones, or those poor, pitiful "lone nutters." Or white people from Alabama that think slavery was not that bad and segregation was okay.
People's beliefs are a product of their environment.
There is absolutely no way in hell - can I say that? - that Fidel Casto was behind the JFK assassination based on what we have known for decades. I give it a 1 in 100,000,000 chance. Conversely LBJ, CIA, elements of US military the American shadow government would be a 1 to 100 favorite. Meaning get $100 on them, you get a $1 pay off. Bet a $1 on Castro, get $100,000,000 if he killed JFK.
Gen. Ed Lansdale was one of the major perps of the JFK assasssination. That photo of him at TSBD is extremely important.
So, please, keep interviewing these anti-Castro Cubans and former intelligence operatives if they will talk to you. #1 on my list would be Felix Rodriguez - these guys are all goldmines of information and Rodriguez is the motherlode. He probably knows exactly who killed JFK.
I don't know, I have only shared in what information I know and that's all I know, as for interviewing anyone, I'm not doing that, they don't know, and I doubt Felix would know anything, there is a fine line I walk and I don't cross that line.
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This year Oswald requested another passport. He told the State
Department that he wanted to visit England, France, ,Germany, the
Netherlands, Finland, Italy, and the Soviet Union; he said he
planned to make a trip in October or December 1963,or in January
of 1964. The passport was issued in New Orleans on June 25th;
however, it is not known whether Oswald returned the money that
was loaned to him for the first return trip to the United States.
Lee Oswald was planning to make another trip in October or December 1963, or in January of 1964. Dosen't sound like someone who is planning to assassinate the president.
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Everyday something new comes out on the JFK assassination. As far as I know, this posting (on 2/13/12) is the first time that Fidel Casto's speech on 11/23/63 (deconstructing the JFK assassination in real time) has been posted on the internet. Castro was obviously very concerned that the JFK assassination is a provation deception by US national security state to promote and justify a military invasion of Cuba.
The only book that I know Castro's speech is in is the superb "History Will Not Absolve Us" (1996) by Martin Schotz. "History Will Not Absolve Us" also has a lot of Vincent Salandria, who is one of the highest quality JFK assassination analysts of all time. Castro's speech is printed in Schotz's book from pages 53-86.
I suggest folks post this web link and speech by Fidel Castro all over the internet. It deserves a much larger audience. In fact, someone could package it and sell it as a book on Amazon Kindle as well.
The sad fact is the Fidel Castro along with Russian newspapers have given FAR more accurate accounts of the JFK assassination than has our CIA/CFR controlled American media for 48 years. The New York Times coverage of the JFK assassination has been the equivalent of 1950's Stalinist propaganda as the CIA controlled "paper of record" refuses to accept and report the facts of the 1963 Coup d'Etat. Ditto the rest of the MSM.
I suggest reading Castro's speech with what we now know about the secret overtures that John Kennedy was making at that time with the Cubans about normalizing relations with Cuba. I am referring to JFK's use of William Attwood to approach the Cubans about this. I am also referring to JFK's use of American ABC News journalist Lisa Howard, who was in fact having an affair with Fidel Castro. My personal opinion - unconfirmed, but just using "critical thinking skills" - is that JFK was also having an affair of a sexual nature with Lisa Howard.
In any event John Kennedy was using Lisa Howard and William Attwood to do an end run around that State Department (and CIA and Pentagon) who no doubt would have been enraged to find out that JFK was contemplating a deal with Cuba that would leave Castro in power. Those guys wanted to kill Castro, not make a "peace deal" that would keep Castro in power. This, along with JFK's war with Lyndon Johnson, could be the 2 big reasons for the JFK assassination.
1) "History Will Not Absolve Us" (1996) by Martin Schotz: http://www.amazon.com/History-Will-Not-Absolve-Orwellian/dp/0965381404/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329164748&sr=1-1
2) "Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years" (2008) - David Talbot
Martin Schotz:
"The following is the text of a speech/commentary delivered by Fidel
Castro on Cuban radio and Tv, Saturday evening, November 23,
1963, one day after the assassination of President Kennedy. The
speech gives the reader insight into the immediate analysis of the
assassination which a political expert such as Castro was able to
make.
This English translation of the speech was released by the Cuban
delegation to the United Nations in 1963. It is here reproduced with
minor editing of grammar and punctuation."
CONCERNING THE FACTS AND CONSEQUENCES OF THE TRAGIC DEATH OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
November 23rd, 1963
by Fidel Castro
Always, when something very important has happened,
national or international, we have thought it desirable to speak
to the people, to express our opinions. And in every such case to
express the orientation of the Government, the orientation of our
Party, so that each one of us all know the attitude we should
adopt in each one of these situations.
It is true that we are somewhat accustomed to various types
of unexpected events, important, serious events, because since the
victory of the Revolution our country has had to face a series of
problems, a series of situations that have prepared the people to
carry forward their victorious revolution.
Therefore, because of the events of yesterday in the United
States in which the President was murdered, because of the
repercussion these events can have, because of the role that the
United States plays in the problems of international policy,
because of this, we believe that we should make a specially
objective and calm analysis of these events and of their possible
consequences.
The government of the United States, the former
administration of Eisenhower and the Kennedy administration,
did not practice precisely a policy of friendship toward us. The
policy of both administrations was characterized by its aggressive,
hostile, and implacable spirit toward our country.
Our country was the victim of economic aggressions intended
to cause the ruin of our economy and the starvation of our
people; it was the victim of all kinds of attacks that caused
bloodshed; hundreds of our compatriots have lost their lives,
defending themselves from attacks of U.S. imperialism, and not
only this. The hostility and the aggressiveness of U.S. imperialism
toward our country took us to the brink of war which was
fortunately avoided, took the world to the brink of thermonuclear
war.
And even when we were not facing a situation like the crisis
of October, and the time of the invasion of Giron [bay of Pigs],
we were all perfectly aware that if the plots they were planning
against our country had been carried through, that is to say, if
imperialism had been able to establish a beachhead on our shores,
that struggle would have cost our people tens of thousands, and
perhaps even hundreds of thousands of lives.
We have been victims of the constant hostility of the United
States. And among the rulers and the leading men of the United
States, there falls on Kennedy an important responsibility in these
events.
Nevertheless, the news of the murder of the President of the
United States is serious news and bad news. We should analyze
it thoroughly in order to understand it; above all, analyze it
serenely and dispassionately, as revolutionaries should analyze
these things.
I say it is bad news, leaving aside the human question, in that
the sensitivity of man, any man, is affected by an act of this
nature, by a crime, by a murder. I say that leaving these
questions aside, I always react and I am sure that this is the
reaction of the immense majority of human beings - we always
react with repulsion toward murder and toward crime.
We cannot consider this to be a correct weapon of struggle -
no, we cannot consider that. Above all under the conditions in
which it happened, because - like all these things - it is always
necessary to consider the atmosphere, the things, the
circumstances.
In other settings, under other circumstances, whatever they
may be in a normal situation, in a peaceful situation, a deed of
this nature is never justifiable. Especially in the middle of a
crowd, in the presence of women, all these things, which above
all - I say - are the circumstances that lead us to take a
condemnatory attitude toward something, even though some
deeds of a political nature, some crimes of a political nature, may
or may not be justified.
In the circumstances that surrounded the assassination of
President Kennedy, we believe it has no justification.
But analyzing the question from the political, objective point
of view, I also said it was serious news, bad news.
And some will ask why? Why precisely the Cubans, who
have received so many aggressions on the part of the United
States, from the Kennedy Administration itself, why can they say
that it is bad news, why can they take an attitude of this kind in
the face of this news? But in the first place we Cubans must react
as revolutionaries. In the second place, we Cubans, as conscious
revolutionaries, should not confuse men with systems. And we
have to begin by considering that we do not hate men, we hate
systems.
We hate the imperialist system, we hate the capitalist system,
but this does not mean that we hate men as such, as individuals,
part of a machine, a more or less important part of a system.
So we should not confuse hatred of a system with the
sentiment we should harbor toward men, which is a different
sentiment; it is not a sentiment of hatred, and much less a
sentiment of hatred which in a case like this would be despicable.
As Marxist-Leninists, we know that the role of man is a
relative role in each historical epoch, in each society, at each
given moment, and we should know the role that man plays in
each society. And above all it is a question of elemental principle:
we do not hate men, we hate systems.
We would be happy at the death of a system; the
disappearance of a system would always make us happy. The
victory of a revolution always makes us happy.
The death of a man, even though this man may be our
enemy, does not make us happy. In the first place, this should be
our attitude as a matter of principle.
And further it is very characteristic of us Cubans, of Latins,
of Spanish-Americans- who are a mixture of races with certain
characteristics - that death always ends our animosity. We
always bow with respect in the face of death, even though it may
be the death of an enemy.
But then, I said that the deed itself could have very negative
repercussions on the interests of our country. But it is not the
interests of our country in this case but the interests of the whole
world that are involved. We must know how to place the
interests of mankind above the interests of our country. I
consider it a negative event for the interests of mankind. And I
am going to explain why.
Because in certain international political situations, at a given
moment, there can be bad situations or worse situations. The
death of President Kennedy has all the perspectives involved in
going from a bad situation to a worse situation: the possibility
exists that from a determined situation, another situation could
unfold and develop that could be highly damaging to the interests
of peace, to the interests of mankind.
Why? Do we perhaps think that the United States holds a
defensible political position in the international field? No, the
international policy of the United States cannot be defended. Its
policy of aggression, policy of violating the rights of other
nations, of interference in the internal affairs of other countries,
of domination, of repression, of bloodshed, of alliance with the
most reactionary sectors of the world, of participation in bloody
wars against the people who struggle for their liberation - as in
the case of South Vietnam - its attitude towards the people of
Latin America, its attitude towards us, and finally its
international position, is in no way defensible from the moral
point of view.
However, within American society and within the policy of
the United States, there are supporters of a much more
reactionary policy, of a policy much more aggressive, much more
warlike.
And the whole condition of the internal policy of the United
States, the internal struggle for power in the United States, the
currents that struggle within the United States, the assassination
of President Kennedy, tend to convert the present policy of the
United States into a worse policy and to aggravate the evils of
U.S. policy.
That is to say that there are elements in the United States
who defend a more reactionary policy in every field, in
international and internal policy, and these are the sole elements
who can benefit from the events that occurred yesterday in the
United States.
Why? Because in the United States a number of forces, a
number of very powerful bodies within U.S. society, very much
influenced by big interests in the United States, have been
developing, and there is no doubt that a U.S. President possessing
the highest authority implies a situation less serious than a
President without the highest authority, in such a situation.
A President is a political man, who should take into account
many factors, advice, opinions, and influences, who is eminently
political, who without doubt, behaves differently in general than
those who we might say are not professional politicians, who
have other professions, other interests, and those political
reactions are always the worst reactions.
In the United States there are a number of powerful forces:
economic, political, military. Many of these forces have a fixed
policy and more than once we have spoken of this problem.
Take the clash, for instance, between the political currents of the
State Department and the military currents of the Pentagon. We
have often seen the manifestations of this struggle in Latin
America, how there are currents in the United States, above all
military currents that support the policy of military coups, and
there are political currents that defend another type of policy -
not that it is a good policy, but clothed in a civilian government,
even pseudo-liberal.
Unquestionably when [there] is a recognized, accepted, strong
authority in the United States, the dangers that arise from the
struggle of a whole series of reactionary currents within the
powerful organizations of the United States are much less than
when this authority does not exist. And without any shadow of
doubt, Kennedy had this authority in the United States.
Now, suddenly a new situation is created, where a President
who, because of circumstances in which he holds power, that in
being Vice President, and then because of an unexpected
circumstance becoming President of the Republic, independent of
what his character may be, because here it is not a question of
the character of the person or his personality, but [because] of the
circumstances, does not come to power with the same personal
authority as President Kennedy had. And therefore a question
begins to arise in respect to the influence within all those forces,
of the new authority who assumes power, of the new President
who takes over the reins of Government.
In the United States there are very reactionary currents, racist
currents, that is to say opposed to the demand for the civil and
social rights of the Negro population, Klu Klux Klan people,
who lynch, who kill and use dogs, who bitterly hate all Negro
citizens in the United States, who nurture a brutal hatred. Those
naturally are the ultra-reactionary.
In the United States there are economic forces, powerful
economic interests, just as ultra-reactionary, who have a
completely reactionary position on all international problems. In
the United States there are forces that support an increased
intervention by the United States [in] international questions, a
greater use of the U.S. military in international questions. There
are, for example, currents in the United States that are
intransigent supporters of the direct invasion of our country.
In the United States there are partisans of the application of
drastic measures against any government that adopts the smallest
measure of a nationalist character, of an economic character that
benefits its country.
And finally, there are a number of groups that can all be
included in one concept: the ultra-right in the United States, the
ultra-reaction in the United States, and this ultra-reaction in each
and every one of the internal and external problems of the
United States is an advocate of the worst procedure, of the most
aggressive and most dangerous and most reckless policy against
peace.
In the United States there are also liberal currents, some more
liberal, some more advanced, other less advanced. There are some
men on the right who are more radical, and other more
moderate. There are certain intellectual sectors that are not
constantly thinking in terms of force, but are thinking along lines
of diplomacy, instead of force, who have a less aggressive policy
- a more moderate policy.
That is to say, in the United States there is a whole range of
political thinking that runs from men of the extreme right to
men of the extreme left, men who are more to the left in their
political thinking.
And in this situation there is a variety of opinion, of more or
less moderate attitudes. There are liberals, intellectual sectors of
the United States who understand the errors in the policy of the
United States, who are not in agreement with many of the things
that the United States has done in international policy.
And what happened yesterday can only benefit those ultrarightist
and ultra-reactionary sectors, among which President
Kennedy or some of the men who worked with him cannot be
included. They could not be placed in the extreme reaction- in
the extreme right.
And even within the situation in the United States, within
the policy of the United States, which as a whole is indefensible,
Kennedy was strongly attacked by the most reactionary, most
aggressive, and most war-like circles.
You will recall that on the eve of the October crisis of last
year, there was a whole campaign, with great pressure, including
laws and resolutions in Congress, pushing Kennedy [and] the
Administration towards war, trying to create a situation of
imperative action.
Everybody will recall that on other occasions, we have stated
that one of the political errors of Kennedy in respect to Cuba
was to have played the game of his enemies. For example, to
have continued the invasion plans against Cuba that the
Republican administration had organized.
And out of all this arose the possibility in the United States
for a policy of blackmail on the part of the Republicans. That is,
Kennedy presented the Republicans with the weapon of Cuba.
How? He continued the aggressive policy of the Republicans, and
they used it as a political weapon against him.
But at times very strong campaigns, powerful movements
within the United States Congress pressed the Administration for
a more aggressive policy against us. All those factors and all these
forces on the extreme right in the United States fought Kennedy
very hard precisely on those points in which he did not agree
with the extreme aggressive policy called for by these sectors.
There are a number of issues that gave rise to constant
criticism by these ultra-right sectors. For instance, the Cuban
problem, the agreement reached at the time of the October Crisis
not to invade Cuba, one of the points in Kennedy's policy most
consistently attacked by the ultra-reactionary sectors. The
agreement on the ending of nuclear tests was another point very
much debated within the United States, and it had the most
resolute and fierce opposition of the most ultra-reactionary.
Elements in the United States were against agreements of this
type.
Everyone knows what our position was on this problem.
Everyone also knows the reason for our position, regardless of
the fact that we consider that this was a step forward that could
mark the beginning of a policy of lasting peace, in favor of true
disarmament, but a policy that was never applied in our case.
Because while the nuclear test ban treaty was being signed, the
policy of aggression against Cuba was accentuated.
But we are not now analyzing the problem in relation to
what happened in our case, but in relation to what was
happening in the world, and above all in relation to what some
were doing and others thinking in the United States.
That is to say, there were many sectors in the United States,
many ultra-reactionary elements that carried out a fierce
campaign against the nuclear test ban treaty.
There are other elements in the United States that violently
opposed the legislation of civil rights proposed by Kennedy
regarding the Negro problem in the United States.
We are not dealing with the case of a revolutionary law or of
a great effort, because this great effort in favor of equality and
civil rights, especially in favor of the rights of the U.S. Negroes,
has not been made in the United States. But be that as it may it
was legislation that contained a series of measures that, from a
legal point of view, tended to protect the rights of the Negro
population. This legislation was blocked and held back by the
strong opposition of the most reactionary sectors in the United
States, of those sectors in favor of racial discrimination.
And thus, on a whole series of issues of international policy,
there are in the United States elements that support a preventive
nuclear war, who are in favor of launching a surprise nuclear
war, because they stubbornly think that this should be the policy
of the United States. Reactionary and neo-fascist elements
without any consideration whatsoever for the most elementary
rights of nations or the interests of mankind.
And it is a strictly objective fact that there are such types of
capitalists, such types of reactionaries. And there is no doubt that
the worst type of capitalism is nazism; the worst type of
imperialism was nazism. And the most criminal mentality was
the mentality of imperialism in its nazi form. And so there is a
whole series of degrees in these questions.
So analyzing the question objectively, whenever a strong
accepted personal authority is lacking in the situation, ways and
conditions in which U.S. policy is carried out, all these
reactionary forces find a magnificent opportunity, and in fact are
finding a magnificent opportunity, to unleash their unbridled and
ultra-reactionary policy.
And these are the sectors, the currents, the only ones that
could benefit by an event such as the one that occurred yesterday
in the United States.
This is analyzing the automatic result of this event. Independent
of another aspect of the question: What is behind the
assassination of Kennedy? What were the real motives for the
assassination of Kennedy? What forces, factors, circumstances
were at work behind this sudden and unexpected event that
occurred yesterday?
News that took everyone by surprise, something that possibly
no one had even imagined.
Even up to this moment, the events that led to the murder of
the President of the United States continue to be confused,
obscure, and unclear.
And there are some things which are clear symptoms of what
I have been saying: that the most reactionary forces in the United
States are at large.
For instance, the worst symptom is the advantage they are
taking of the event to unleash within the United States a state of
anti-Soviet hysteria and of anti-Cuban hysteria; this, in the first
place. It means that the new administration that is taking over
may find itself facing a situation of hysteria, unleashed in the
United States, precisely by the most reactionary sector of the
country, by the most reactionary press, with the great resources
that powerful political currents have within the United States.
That is to say that already they are combining to create a
frame of mind in the U.S. public opinion, and its worst
characteristic is that they are waging a campaign in the worst
McCarthyite spirit, in the worst anti-communist spirit.
At the time of President Kennedy's murder, it ran through
the minds of most people . . . and surely it ran through the
minds of the large majority of U.S. citizens, and this was only
logical- that President Kennedy's assassination was the work of
some elements who disagreed with his international policy; that
is to say, with his nuclear treaty, with his policy with respect to
Cuba - which they did not consider aggressive enough, and
which they considered weak - with his policy with respect to
internal civil problems of the United States. Not many days ago,
the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Adlai Stevenson was attacked
in the same city of Dallas by ultra-conservative elements of the
John Birch Society and counter-revolutionary elements in league
with them. This event drew the attention of us all.
I even thought, what degree of reaction will those people
reach, when they consider that Stevenson deserves attack for his
international policy?
In spite of how reactionary U.S. international policy has
been, there are elements who physically assault Stevenson,
because they consider that U.S. policy is a weak policy, a bad
policy, that it is not a sufficiently reactionary policy.
This ran through everybody's mind. Did it run through the
mind of anyone that it might be a leftist? No, that did not occur
to anyone. Why? Because the controversy within the United
States today, the fierce controversy was taking place between the
most ultra-reactionary elements, the ultra-right elements, and the
more moderate elements of U.S. politics.
The internal controversy was not characterized by a struggle
of the communists of the United States with the Government of
the United States; it was not characterized by a struggle of leftist
elements or liberal elements. This does not mean that the leftist
elements supported Kennedy's policy; but the struggle, the battle
waged without quarter was taking place within the United States
between the extreme right, the extreme reaction, and the more
moderate elements, in Congress, in the press, on the streets,
everywhere.
International tension had even diminished considerably in recent
months. These months were not months like the October crisis, not
like the months following the October crisis .... The United States
was not living through one of those stages of McCarthyism
characterized by unbridled persecution of the most progressive
elements of the United States. No, there have been other stages in
which the struggle is between reaction and the progressives. The
main task of reaction was to persecute the progressive elements, and
in such circumstances one might think that a progressive, persecuted
by blood and fierce, a fanatic haunted by his ideas, might be capable
of reacting in such a way. No, the United States was not living
through such a period. It was not living through a period of
unbridled McCarthyism. It was living through a period of fierce
controversy between the more moderate sectors - among which
can be found many of Kennedy's collaborators - and the ultrareactionary
sector of American society.
Therefore, it was neither logical, nor reasonable, that anyone
could think that it could be a leftist fanatic; in any case it would
be a rightist fanatic, if it was a fanatic at all.
But naturally it was very difficult in the face of an event of
this nature for such unscrupulous people - like many U.S.
politicians- such immoral people, such dishonest and shameless
people as are many of those elements who represent the
reactionary cynical sectors of the United States, warmongers,
irreconcilable enemies of Cuba, supporters of an invasion of
Cuba - although this might be at the cost of thermonuclear war
- it was very difficult for them not to try to take advantage of
this circumstance to turn all their hatred, all their propaganda
and all their campaign against Cuba.
This did not surprise us. I have already said that we were
somewhat used to these things. The struggle, life, have made our
people into a people with iron nerves, a serene people. We have
just lived through the hurricane, and we faced the test with
dignity and honor, we have faced many tests with dignity and
honor. We foresaw that from these incidents there could be a
new trap, an ambush, a Machiavellian plot against our country;
that on the very blood of their assassinated President there might
be unscrupulous people who would begin to work out
immediately an aggressive policy against Cuba, if the aggressive
policy had not been linked beforehand to the assassination, if it
was not linked, because it might or might not have been. But
there is no doubt that this policy is being built on the still warm
blood and the unburied body of their own tragically assassinated
President.
They are people who do not have an iota of morality; they
are people who do not have an iota of scruples; they are people
who do not have an iota of shame; who perhaps may believe that
in the shadow of the tragedy they can take us off guard,
demoralized, weak, the kind of beliefs into which the imperialists
always so mistakenly fall. And sure enough, yesterday at 2 P.M.
the first cable: November 22, UPI ... because we should note
this; that of the news agencies, one has been more moderate,
more objective - the AP - and there is another that has been
excessively and unrestrainedly untruthful, a shameless promoter
of a policy and a campaign of slander against Cuba, that is UPI.
But that is not all, because there is a previous series of very
interesting UPI reports, and even a series of UPI campaigns
against President Kennedy himself, which links the news agency
with the ultra-right groups, which are interested in taking
advantage of the situation for their adventurous and warlike
policy, or because these circles are connected with the
assassination of President Kennedy.
And we can see this clearly through the cables: "Dallas,
November 22, UPI- today the police arrested Lee H. Oswald,
identified as the chairman of the Fair Play for Cuba Committees,
as the main suspect in the assassination of President John F.
Kennedy." Right away Cuba and right away the Soviet Union.
And so they dedicated themselves to carrying out a fierce antiSoviet
and anti-Cuban campaign.
Cable: "The U.S. Embassy today confirmed that Lee H.
Oswald was in the Soviet Union. An Embassy official stated that
Oswald visited the Embassy in November of 1959 and according
to available information he left the Soviet Union in 1962. He
added that it was not known when the man suspected of killing
President John F. Kennedy had traveled to the Soviet Union,
what the purpose of his trip had been and how long he had
stayed in the Soviet Union. There were unconfirmed reports that
Oswald asked for Soviet citizenship and that he could not get it."
Thus, from the very first cables there is an attempt to suggest
the responsibility of the Soviet Union and the responsibility of
Cuba, as if anyone could believe - anyone who is not a half-wit
- and has a little common sense - that any Government, the
Soviet government or the Cuban Government .. . and if they
don't want to believe us, they don't have to believe us; that is
unimportant. Perhaps they will think that we are hot-headed;
perhaps they feel that they have carried out too many aggressions
against us, but to suggest that the Soviet Union could have any
responsibility in this incident . . . can anyone believe that to
suggest that we could have had any responsibility ... can anyone
believe that? Anyone who is not a half-wit, who has a little
common sense, who knows when men are working for a cause
and who know which roads lead a cause to victory?
Yet, nevertheless, this was the first thing they tried to suggest.
Listen to this cable "that they did not know the purpose of his
trip and how long he stayed in the Soviet Union." That was the
first insinuation. And that was what made all this seem
suspicious, because it so happened that the most unexpected thing
- as unexpected as the assassination itself - was that
immediately a suspect appeared who - by a coincidence - had
been in Russia, and-what a coincidence -he is related to a
Fair Play for Cuba Committee. That is what they began to say.
And so, immediately a guilty person appeared: a suspect who had
been in the Soviet Union and who sympathized with Cuba.
Of course, although it is extraordinarily difficult to
manufacture a frame-up of this nature, it is possible that at this
moment they are not pursuing such an objective. They are
pursuing another objective, because they cannot invent just any
kind of responsibility.
They are trying to organize a campaign of hysteria, to excite
the minds of the people and unleash hysteria within the United
States; an anti-communist, anti-progressive, anti-liberal, anti-Soviet,
anti-Cuban warmongering hysteria within the United
States. If they had the slightest sense of responsibility, of
seriousness, or of good faith, they would not unleash a campaign
of this nature, as they have done, as can be seen in all the cables.
Let us read this one: "November 22, UPI- The assassin of
President Kennedy is an admitted Marxist who spent three years
in Russia trying to renounce his U.S. citizenship, but later
changed his mind and got a return trip to the United States paid
for by the United States Government." That is already a
suggestion of blame to the Soviet Union. He was identified as Lee
H. Oswald, 24 years old, ex-U.S. marine and chairman of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
So, right after that, the insinuation against Cuba. And this is
how they have begun all cables, all UPI cables, all reports,
Through the reports they have twenty times repeated the same
idea and the same thing, using a well-known technique at which
they are masters- to insinuate what they want to insinuate, to
sow the suspicion that they want to sow over this affair, to
slander the Cuban Revolution, to slander the Soviet Union, to
create hysteria against our countries.
It says: "Oswald was captured after a shooting fray when he
hid in a movie house " ... Thousands of reports came in on this,
many of them contradictory.
" . . . The police say that Oswald worked in a school
textbook warehouse in Texas ... after the crime the police found
a Mauser rifle in the building," etc . . .. It says where he was
born, it says that on October the 30th he turned up at the U.S.
Embassy in Moscow, on October 30th of 1959, and told the
officials that he wanted to give up his American citizenship.
"According to reports, he told the Embassy officials: 'I am a
Marxist.' The Federal Bureau of Investigations confirmed that
Oswald went to Russia and requested Soviet citizenship.
"Oswald told the Embassy officials that he intended to
disclose to the Soviet authorities everything he knew from the
three years he had been in the Marine Corps."
Listen to that: "Oswald told the Embassy officials that he
intended to disclose to the Soviet authorities everything he knew
from three years he had been in the U.S. Marine Corps. The
Embassy officials said that Russia never granted Oswald the
citizenship he requested."
Already they have in their hands a guilty person- true or
false? They have already produced someone who is guilty. They
have him. And now look: you will see the whole course followed
by this campaign.
" ... He told the officials that he intended to disclose all the
secrets he knew." Well, later I will refer to that again.
In February, 1962 Oswald apparently changed his mind and
returned to the United States. He had in the meantime married
a Russian, Marina, had a child. This man, who is charged with
something more than desertion, with being a spy, with confessing
that he is going to disclose military secrets, simply returned
peacefully to the United States- according to them.
It says: "The Embassy officials went over the case and since
he had not been granted Soviet citizenship, they decided to give
him a passport for the United States ... "
Can anyone who has said that he will disclose military secrets
return to the United Sates without being arrested, tried, without
being sent to jail?
It says: "Government records show that he left Moscow with
485 dollars for expenses, which the United States Government
gave to him.
"This year Oswald requested another passport. He told the State
Department that he wanted to visit England, France, ,Germany, the
Netherlands, Finland, Italy, and the Soviet Union; he said he
planned to make a trip in October or December 1963,o r in January
of 1964. The passport was issued in New Orleans on June 25th;
however, it is not known whether Oswald returned the money that
was loaned to him for the first return trip to the United States.
"If he did not pay, the new passport should not have been
issued," they say. We will use their own reports:
"Dallas, November 22 -another cable -the President of
the United States, John F. Kennedy, was shot to death today.
The police arrested, as the main suspect of the murder, a proCastro
American" . . .
Now we find that the man who murdered Kennedy is proCastro.
We know there are very few pro-Castros-what they
call "pro-Castros" in the United States.
They call them "pro-Castro." They label as "pro-Castro"
anyone it suits them to according to their propaganda and the
business at issue.
Now we find that the man who was yesterday in the Fair
Play Committee-in the first cable-was then a "pro-Castro"
American who had once tried to become a Soviet citizen. That
is how all the cables go, you will see.
Another cable, "Dallas, November 22, UPI-Police arrested
Lee H. Oswald today, a Marxist supporter of the Cuban Prime
Minister Fidel Castro."
There is not a single cable in which they do not connect the
action, the name of the individual whom they assure is guilty,
with the Cuban Revolution, with the Soviet Union, with Fidel
Castro, pro-Castro, supporter of the Prime Minister, admirer of
the Cuban Prime Minister.
It says: "A supporter of the Cuban Prime Minister, Fidel
Castro, who tried to obtain citizenship in the Soviet Union,
where he lived for several years, denied any knowledge of the
criminal action. Oswald killed a policeman. . .." etc.
And later on, in the same cable: " ... although Oswald, who
heads the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, a pro-Castro entity in
this city, admitted ownership of the gun with which the
policeman ..." They keep repeating this all the time.
This one comes later. The most noticeable item here is the lie
that this gentleman headed a Fair Play Committee. A lie. We
started putting together all the information and statements that
have appeared, to see whether there was a Fair Play for Cuba
Committee in that area of Texas or in New Orleans. They said
that this man ... where did they get that? ... They said that he
presented himself as secretary of a sectional unit of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee in New Orleans or in Dallas. Some cables
say that it was in the month of August, other cables say it was
last week. That is what they say.
That is the reason for calling this man "pro-Castro." And
that he had defended the Cuban Revolution in a broadcast there.
All this is very queer. We had no news of any such statement.
But we looked for reports: Cities where there were Fair Play for
Cuba Committees of which we had knowledge - New York,
Los Angeles, Cleveland, Baltimore, Chicago, Tamp a,
Youngstown, Washington, San Francisco, Minneapolis,
Philadelphia, Detroit - but nowhere is there a Fair Play for
Cuba Committee in Dallas or in New Orleans.
Strange because within their Organization they are superinfiltrated
by U.S. citizens, and F.B.I. and CIA agents. Isn't that
so? Because everything that the CIA and the FBI do there has
been proved. Later they said other things.
Here it says also: "The Chairman of the National Committee
declared that the Fair Play for Cuba Committee has never
authorized the establishment of a chapter in any city of Texas or
Louisiana. 'I can say that Lee Harvey Oswald was never Secretary
or Chairman of any Fair Play for Cuba Committee in any city
of the United States.' "
But you see, throughout the world, they began to spread the
poison from the first moments, that a Fair Play for Cuba
Committee was involved. Other things appear later on. Later we
will try to analyze who this true or false culprit could be. And
we must stick to what they say, we must base ourselves on what
they themselves say. All right. That was the 22nd ...
"November 23, Dallas UPI - Pro-communist Lee Harvey
Oswald was charged today with the assassination of President
Kennedy. Police said that the paraffin test on Oswald's hands gave
positive results that traces of gun-powder were found " etc. . . .
Dallas, November 23rd, UPI- The result of the tests made
on Oswald's face is still unknown. Such traces could only exist
if the suspect had fired a gun."
So, in the first paragraph they start by saying, "procommunist,"
in the second paragraph they speak of something
else. Third paragraph - Oswald, a Marxist and sympathizer of
the communist regime in Cuba had oatmeal for breakfast ... In
other words, in order to say what he had for breakfast, they
repeat that he was a Marxist and sympathizer of the communist
regime of Fidel Castro in Cuba. Get it? It is clear enough. We
know these people quite well; we have become almost experts in
knowing these shameless characters.
They say: "He had oatmeal, apricots, bread, and coffee for
breakfast, and sat down comfortably to wait for the authorities
to continue questioning him."
"Dallas, November 23rd, UPI- The local police have proof
that President John F. Kennedy was assassinated by CastroCommunist
Lee Harvey Oswald, according to an official
announcement today." So he was murdered by a Castrocommunist?
Now this man is no longer an American, he is no
longer a Marine, this man whom they taught to shoot and kill in
the Marine Corps, now this man whom they made an expert
shot and sent to all U.S. imperialist bases throughout the world
is no longer a Marine. No, he was no longer an American, he
was a Castro-Communist, even though we never in our life heard
of the existence of this person.
You see how all this propaganda works. An American, a real
American, born there, educated by American society and
American schools, seeing American films, in the American armed
forces, American in every way. All of a sudden he is no longer
this; there is nothing of this in the cables. Now we read: 'By the
Castro-communist.''
All right, Captain Will Fritz said they were certain of this,
etc. This was yesterday; now this was today in the afternoon:
"Jesse Curry, Dallas Chief of Police, said today that Lee Harvey
Oswald admitted being a communist. And now he admitted it
today; yesterday he admitted nothing. Today it appears that he
admitted being a communist. "Curry added that Oswald
admitted to police officers questioning him last night that he was
a member of the Communist Party." Now the man has turned
out to be a member of the Communist Party. As time passes
they discover more titles for this man. The true man or supposed
man, this they do not know. Who can ... ?
All right. One thing is clear: among all the things connected
with the assassination is the unleashing of a campaign of slander
against the Soviet Union and against Cuba, and a series of
perfidious insinuations that have no other object than to repeat
a thousands times their intrigue and sheer infamy to create an
anti-Soviet and anti-Cuban hysteria among the U.S. people and
in public opinion.
So these gentlemen are playing a very strange role in a very
strange play, and no one knows what sinister plans may be
behind all this.
All right. On the other hand, there is an official statement by
the State Department, issued today, which declares: "State
Department authorities said today that they had no evidence to
indicate that the Soviet Union or any other power is involved in
the assassination of President Kennedy.
"Lee Harvey Oswald, a former Marine who lived three years
in Russia, has been charged with the crime. When 24 years old
Oswald went to Russia; he announced his intention of giving up
his U.S. citizenship. After changing his mind and returning to the
United States last year, Oswald became a sympathizer of the
Cuban prime Minister, Fidel Castro." So they repeat themselves
even in the cables where they say they deny they lie. . . . The
cable goes on: "State Department officials say that they have no
evidence that Cuba is involved in what Oswald did."
Naturally, there is no need for anyone to make excuses for
Cuba. There is no need for anyone to apologize for Cuba. Cuba
is not asking anyone to excuse her, or pardon her, because even
the very idea that we should have to defend ourselves from such
an infamy is repugnant in itself. Repugnant in itself.
So we have no need for anyone to defend us or apologize on
our behalf. Why does the State Department have to come out
today with such a statement? What does this show? It shows that
the U.S. authorities themselves, some people in the United States,
have become aware of the danger of the anti-Soviet and antiCuban
campaign unleashed by the most reactionary and warlike
circles in the United States.
In other words, the State Department itself understands the
danger of such a policy, the very dangerous dead end into which
such a campaign of slander and hysteria can lead the United
States.
So this shows that there are people in the United States who
have understood the need to get out of this situation. This does
not mean that the danger is over, because we do not know what
is behind the assassination of Kennedy. What is behind the
assassination of Kennedy is not known at the moment.
The statement does not eliminate the danger of some frame-up
that could be concocted there, but indicates that there are
already people in the United States who have understood the
danger and risk in such a campaign and indicates that, possibly,
there are people in the United States who do not agree with such
an adventure, with such madness, with such nonsense that is
being carried out in such a criminal and irresponsible way.
All right. The State Department has felt the need to
counteract this policy, because who knows where this policy, this
campaign, may lead.
Later other things have appeared, because all this is very
mysterious. Another cable, this time by Associated Press, says:
"A 1961 letter ..." Of course the United Press International has
said nothing on this because its campaign has been one-sided, in one
direction only, but not just the UPI. We were listening yesterday to
broadcasts of U.S. stations and the very same campaign was being
carried on the radio. The name of Castro was mentioned almost
more often than the name of the man whom they charge with the
murder, incessantly repeated over the radio in the United States.
See how these people act and how much they hate the
Revolution. Why should we not suspect that these people could
be capable of anything, from the murder of Kennedy up to what
they are doing now? People moved by such hatred, people who
act with such absolute lack of scruples ...
The AP cable reads: "A letter dated 1961 found in Pentagon
files raises doubts whether Texas governor, John Connally, and
not President Kennedy, was the main target of the assassin who
shot both yesterday in Dallas.
"The letter, dated January 31st, 1961, was written by hand in
Minsk, Soviet Union, by Lee Harvey Oswald, a former Marine,
charged with murdering Kennedy and wounding Connally.
"Oswald returned a year ago after spending three years in the
Soviet Union.
"The letter was addressed to Connally, then Secretary of the
Navy, asking that the dishonorable discharge of Oswald be
canceled. The request was denied, and if it is shown that he is the
man who fired at Kennedy and Connally, the question might be
raised of whom he had more motive to want to kill.
"A copy of Oswald's letter was sent to Connally, who had
left his post as Secretary of the Navy on December 20th 1961.
Connally briefly replied to Oswald on February 23, 1962, that he
was no longer in the Navy and that he had referred his letter to
the new Secretary of the Navy.
"A copy of Connally's letter was sent to the new official,
Fred Korth, who referred it to the Marine Corps. The Marine
Corps referred it to a court of appeals which confirmed Oswald's
dishonorable discharge. Oswald's letter maintained that his
discharge was a gross error or an injustice."
There are some other cables here in which they speak about
a threat, cables that say that in the letter Oswald threatened the
then-Secretary of the Navy, that he would take any means to
avenge himself for that injustice. And that very same Secretary of
the Navy was accompanying Kennedy.
So they themselves have now brought up another possible
version.
We have here a report which reads: "District Attorney Henry
Wade declared today that he expects to be able to secure a death
sentence for Lee Harvey Oswald, former Marine, who has been
formally accused of the murder of President John F. Kennedy,
according to reports issued by U.S. new agencies.
The report adds that Wade has been District Attorney in
twenty-four murder cases and secured twenty-three death
penalties. It seems that this District Attorney is a hangman - a
life sentence in the other case.
"Wade added that he is in possession of material evidence
against Oswald, but refused to say what this evidence was. He
said that it has not yet been established whether the Mauser that
was found is the murder weapon.
"In all the questioning Oswald has denied that he took any
part in the murder.
"Captain Will Fritz, Chief of the Homicide Squad of the
Dallas Police, said that in his opinion, Oswald killed President
Kennedy and that for him the case is closed."
Later we have to try to look at some of the facts on who this
accused man can be, but we want to speak of the campaign
carried on by United Press International.
It just so happens that these events occurred precisely at a
moment when Kennedy was being severely attacked by those
who considered his Cuban policy too weak.
It could not be us, but only the enemies of the Revolution
and the enemies, in general, of a more moderate policy, a less
warlike policy, the enemies of a policy like this who might be
interested in the death of President Kennedy, the only ones who
perhaps could have received the news of the death of Kennedy
with satisfaction.
A few days ago an incident drew my attention. This was
while the Inter-American Press Association Conference was
taking place. It was a scandal, because several governments were
strongly attacked, crudely attacked like the government of Brazil,
by a certain Mexquita, who said horrible things about the
President of Brazil, who even talked about and called for a coup
in Brazil; where statements were also made against other
presidents, against other Latin American countries, there in the
United States, and they made long tirades publishing a whole
series of opinions against the speech delivered by Kennedy in
Florida, because the speech delivered by Kennedy in Florida was
disappointing for a number of persons who favor a more
aggressive policy against Cuba. It was a disappointment for the
counter-revolutionary elements and it was a disappointment for
the warmongering elements in the United States.
And so, a series of cables. Here "Miami, Florida - The
Cuban exiles waited tonight in vain for a firm promise from
President Kennedy to take energetic measures against the
communist regime of Fidel Castro."
It says: "They waited tonight in vain for a firm promise" .. .
Many met in the offices of the revolutionary organizations and
in their homes, to listen to President Kennedy over the radio.
The Spanish translation broadcast over the radio station of the
exiles. They listened when the President said: "We in the
hemisphere should use all the means at our disposal to prevent
the establishment of another Cuba in the hemisphere." That is,
they did not accept the fact he said "to prevent the establishment
of another Cuba in the hemisphere," because they thought that
it carried with it the idea of accepting one Cuba. Many exiles had
hopes of more vigorous statements to liberate Cuba from
communism, but nevertheless, some felt that the U.S.
government was waging a secret war of infiltration against Castro
that could not be disclosed. It says that thousands of exiles
attended an open air rally in view of Kennedy's arrival, and they
heard criticism because of what they described as a weak U.S.
policy toward Cuba.
Jose Ignacio Rivero,Editor-in-exile of the Diario de La Marina,
the oldest Havana newspaper (he will stay there all his life), and
Emilio Nunez Portuondo, former President of the United
Nations Security council, called for more positive action by the
United States.
Rivero, a member of the Inter-American Press Association,
where Kennedy spoke, expressed his doubts over a sinister
intrigue among international politicians. That is an "intrigue "
because they want to co-exist with us.
It says: He also said in the meeting that "the weak U.S.
policy towards Cuba and other American nations is an
international shame." This was said by Ignacio Rivero, this one
from Diario de La Marina, who you know is an ultra-ultra and
who has to be linked to the ultra-ultra elements in the United
States.
So these elements openly state there that "the weak U.S.
policy toward Cuban and other American Nations is an
international shame...
"Miami Beach: Latin American newspaper publishers and
editors in response to the speech delivered by President Kennedy
tonight ... said that he had not taken a strong enough position
against the communist regime of Fidel Castro." That is, that
there, where the most reactionary representatives of the press
within and without the United States met, according to UPI and
AP cables, many of them said that he had not taken a strong
enough position against the communist regime of Fidel Castro ...
Augustin Navarre of El Espejo of Mexico, felt that the speech
was extremely weak and that his observations on Cuba were not
sufficient .... He added that "it was necessary to rescue Cuba
under Fidel Castro from Communism and not to maintain the
status quo." They are speaking against any coexistence. Other
Cuban newspaper owners in exile made similar statements.
A series of cables began to arrive. Here: "The president of the
Cuban Medical Association in exile, Enrique Huerta, stated that
the speech did not clarify any of the fundamental questions
related to the Cuba problem ... He wanted a unanimous attack,
a unanimous attack of Kennedy.
The newspaper added that the weak policy followed by the
Kennedy Government in respect to Castro, as a result of the
policy followed by his predecessor Eisenhower, made it possible
for Castro and Khrushchev to cement Cuba into a police state,
where the people have practically no hope of successfully
rebelling without large-scale outside help.
The newspaper continued: "Kennedy now refuses to allow
Cuban exiles to launch attacks against Cuba from U.S.t erritory.''
What is the difference between that way of thinking and
taking advantage of the assassination of their President to carry
out that policy? See what some of those reactionary circles
thought about Kennedy. It says: "Kennedy now refuses to allow
Cuban exiles to launch attacks against Cuba from U.S. territory,
and in fact uses U.S. air and naval power to maintain Castro in
power." That is to say,t hey accuse Kennedy of using naval and
air power to maintain Castro in power.
"There is a considerable difference," says the newspaper,
"between this attitude and the daring words about Cuba said by
Kennedy during the 1960 Presidential campaign. We doubt that
many voters have been disoriented by the President's remarks in
relation to Cuba the day before yesterday." It says "And many
voters will not have been disoriented."
So there was observed a current of unanimous criticism
against what the ultra-reactionary sectors considered a weak
policy toward Cuba. And that is how these people think.
And there are cables and more cables and more cables,
because they never wrote so many cables. It is obvious, how the
news agencies made a tremendous propaganda of all the criticisms
made of Kennedy because of his Cuban policy. The UPI
overflowed with information as it had never done before, picking
up all the criticisms of Kennedy because of his Cuban policy ....
Julio Mexquita Ciro, an utterly shameless reactionary who
went there to speak against the President of Brazil to carry on a
campaign against Brazil and to promote a reactionary, fascist
coup against Brazil - see what he says: "Julio Mexquita Ciro,
... who yesterday moved the editors of the IAPA meeting with
his analysis of the economic and political situation in his country,
said it was an error on the part of the United states not to have
realized the danger that the presence of Cuba meant for the
whole continent. Mexquita was in favor of collective action,
armed collective action by the hemisphere against Cuba, because
'I am a defender of free determination of nations,' he said."
Mexquita, Mosquito, Mezquino, all means the same thing; just
see how reactionary he is. The cable adds; ". . . the Brazilian
editor described as primitive President Kennedy's way of looking
at the agrarian problem of the hemisphere, and he said that the
agrarian problem cannot be measured with the same yardstick for
all the nations of the hemisphere." Why did he say this? Because
he represents the oligarchy, the big landholders in Brazil, and as
I was talking precisely about different shades of policy. Kennedy's
policy prompted a type of agrarian reform which is not
revolutionary, of course, which is not revolutionary but which
clashed with the interest of the oligarchs. And it is very strange
that in these days, on the eve of the assassination of Kennedy, a
coincidence as never before had been noted. In the opinion of the
ultra-reactionary sectors within and without the United
States ....
And this individual talks here about Kennedy's primitive way
of looking at the agrarian problem. And then finally there is
something very interesting - really very interesting ...
It says the third editor to express his opinion, Carbo, who is
director of the Executive Council of the Inter-American Press
Association - which is a very important job in the intellectual
sectors of reaction and the oligarchy - emphasized that there
were not strong statements in favor of the liberation of Cuba like
the statements that had been made in previous speeches by
President Kennedy, especially in the one he made after the heroic
battle of Playa Giron -that "heroic battle" where every one of
them ended defeated and imprisoned- forecasting the crisis of
the communist regime of Cuba. He claims in "Cuba the situation
of the government verges on the insoluble, economically,
politically and internationally since Castro is no longer reliable,
not even to Russia.' '
But most important of all is how the statement made by this
gentleman who holds an important post in reactionary intellectual
circles in the United States and abroad as Director of the
Executive Council of the Inter-American Press Association, how
his statement ends -and this is what drew my attention. The
editor of the confiscated Havana newspaper ended by saying: "I
believe a coming serious event will oblige Washington to change
its policy of peaceful co-existence." What does this mean? What
did this gentleman mean when he said this three days before the
assassination of Kennedy? What did this gentleman who holds an
utmost post in the ultra-reactionary intellectual circles in and
outside of the United States, the Director of the Executive
Council of the Inter-American Press Association, mean in a cable
that is not from Prensa Latina, but from Associated Press, dated
November 19th -AP Num, 254, AP November 19th, Miami
Beach - when he said: "I believe that a coming serious event will
oblige Washington to change its policy of peaceful co-existence?"
What does this mean, three days before the murder of
President Kennedy? Because when I read this cable it caught my
attention, it intrigued me, it seemed strange to me. Was there
perhaps some sort of understanding? Was there perhaps some sort
of thought about this? Was there perhaps some kind of plot? Was
there perhaps in those reactionary circles where the so-called
weak policy of Kennedy toward Cuba was under attack, where
the policy of ending nuclear threat was under attack, where the
policy of civil rights was under attack .... Was there perhaps in
certain civilian and military ultra-reactionary circles in the United
States, a plot against President Kennedy 's life?
How strange it is really that the assassination of President
Kennedy should take place at a time when there was unanimous
agreement of opinion against certain aspects of his policy, a
furious criticism of his policy. How strange all this is.
And this man who appears as the guilty person, who was he?
Who is he? Is he really guilty? Or is he only an instrument? Is he
a psychopath, sick? He could be one or the other. Or is he by
any means an instrument of the most reactionary circles in the
United States. Who is this man?
Here we have a report of the New York Times on Oswald
that says, "Last July he tried to enter the Cuban Student
Directory, to take part in the plans to overthrow the
revolutionary regime of Fidel Castro." It was no longer a Castroplot.
According to the New York Times he was trying to enter a
counterrevolutionary organization to overthrow the Cuban
Revolution. The paper names Cuban refugee sources as the basis
for this information.
Oswald was able to return to the United States thanks to a
loan of 435 dollars and 71 cents granted to him by the U.S.
Government. He succeeded in getting money after an appeal to
Senator John G. Tower, Republican, Texas, and he returns from
the Soviet Union on U.S. Government money through the
intervention of a Republican Senator from Texas.
Oswald has at present a U.S. passport which he obtained as
a photographer who wanted to travel abroad during the months
of October, November, and December of this year and visit the
Soviet Union, Great Britain, the Netherlands, France, and Italy.
How strange it is. Since he was arrested yesterday in Dallas, as a
suspect, the U.S. radio and television have been stressing that
Oswald is the chairman of the Dallas chapter of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee.
"Questioned in New York on this point the Executive
Secretary of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee denied that
Oswald held such a post, and added that there is no chapter of
this organization in Texas."
The New York Times, in explaining the contact established
between Oswald and the Cuban counter-revolutionaries, says that
Jose Antonio Denuza, spokesman of the so-called Cuban Student
Directory, had declared in Miami that Oswald met with the
delegates of that anti-Castro group in New Orleans last July.
Denuza - The New York Times added - said that Oswald
said he wanted to aid the Cubans in the fight against
communism, and offered 10 dollars contribution and his help in
military training of an invasion.
Carlos Bringuier, delegate of the counterrevolutionary
organization referred to, said to the New York Times that "at first
I suspected Oswald. I frankly thought that he might be an FBI or
CIA agent trying to find out what we were doing." So Cuban
counter-revolutionaries are saying that when Oswald tried to
enter their organization he was not accepted because they
believed he was from the CIA or FBI, and that he was trying to
find out what they were up to.
How curious! And this is not what they publish but they say
that he is a Castroite, a communist, an admirer of Fidel Castro.
And now it appears that he tried to enter the organization and
was not admitted because they thought he belonged to the FBI
or CIA. They must know pretty well the kind of agents the FBI
and CIA have since they deal with them a lot.
But for the time being, without affirming anything, because
we cannot affirm anything, since Oswald could be guilty or
innocent, we can't tell; or he could be a CIA or FBI agent, as
those people suspected, or an instrument of the most reactionary
sectors that may have been planning a sinister plot, who may
have planned the assassination of Kennedy because of
disagreement with his international policy; or he could be a sick
man now being used by U.S. reactionary sectors.
However, there is a series of strange things about this man
who is presented to be guilty, who tried to enter
counterrevolutionary organizations and yet later they say turned
up distributing pro-Castro propaganda - that is what they say
- who later appeared on TV. That is strange ... because he was
not a personality, and American television and radio stations do
not call just anyone off the street and present him; much less do
they go around calling the people of Fair Play for Cuba to carry
out campaigns for Cuba. No! They close the newspaper doors to
them, they close the radio and television doors to them. How
strange that this Oswald - who was first trying to join a
counterrevolutionary organization - should turn up now,
resorting to television to defend us. How strange! How strange
that this former marine should go to the Soviet Union and try
to become a Soviet citizen, and that the Soviets should not accept
him, that he should say at the American Embassy that he
intended to disclose to the Soviet Union the secrets of everything
he learned while he was in the U.S. service and that in spite of
this statement, his passage is paid by the U.S. Government on the
backing of a Texas Republican Senator who is considered to be,
as it says here: Texas is considered by them to be . . . Well, I
cannot find the paper, but there is a cable around here where
they themselves say that Texas is the bulwark of reactionary
spirit. And then we find that this man, who says in the Embassy
... who makes a statement in the Embassy that he is going to
disclose the secrets he knows to the Soviet Union, later returns
with money given on recommendation of a Republican Senator
from Texas. He goes back to Texas and finds a job. This is all so
strange!
He is not tried, he is not sentenced, he is given money to
return, supported by a Senator from Texas and then, again they
give him a passport to travel. This is all so strange! What is there
behind all this? What sinister maneuver are they scheming behind
all this? Who are those guilty for the murder of Kennedy? Who
will benefit from this murder, who could be the only ones to
benefit from this murder? The supporters of the invasion of
Cuba, the supporters of brink of war policy, and the supporters
of war; enemies of peace, the enemies of disarmament, the worst
enemies of Negro rights in the United States, the worst enemies
of progressive elements and of liberal thought in the United
States.
Who can benefit from this, from this action, from this
murder, if not the worst reaction, the worst elements of U.S.
society? Who could be the only ones interested in this murder?
Could it be a real leftist, a leftist fanatic, at a moment when
tensions had lessened, at a moment when McCarthyism was
being left behind, or was at least more moderate, at a moment
when a nuclear test ban treaty is signed, at a moment when
speeches are described as weak with respect to Cuba were being
made?
It says here - now more things are beginning to come out:
"Dallas, Texas, November 23rd, AP- All his life Lee Harvey
Oswald has been a solitary, an introverted type with communist
ideas, but he was not regarded as a troublemaker. Deep down, his
introverted personality was imbued at an early age by an alien
ideology enunciated a century ago by Karl Marx."
Dallas police chief Jesse Curry has said that Oswald readily
admitted being a communist. How strange, what contradictions.
He does not confess to committing the crime. It is supposed that
if a fanatic commits a crime of this kind he says so or as someone
said: fanatics fire their revolvers in front of everybody, they run
out with a revolver as the car passes. The strange case of a fanatic
who denies committing a murder, but on the other hand, readily
confesses to being a communist- according to the cables.
" 'Apparently he feels proud of being a communist,' Curry
added. 'He does not try to conceal it.' "
All these are new stories which did not appear yesterday.
They are of today. "Although accused of the assassination of the
President, Lee Harvey Oswald has resisted all efforts by the
authorities to make him confess; Oswald has told newsmen: 'I
did not kill President Kennedy. I did not kill anyone.' "
What sort of person was Oswald before his arrest? He was
born in New Orleans on the 18th of October, 1939. "My father
died before I was born," Oswald said. "His widowed mother
brought the family to Fort Worth. A Fort Worth police officer,
who asked that his name not be revealed said he has known
Oswald since both were in fifth grade, until he entered high
school at Fort Worth. This police officer, Oswald's former
classmate, recalled the following: he always opposed any sort of
discipline. He seemed to hold something against people there,
against any authority; he was never like the rest of the kids. He
rarely associated with them, but he never was a troublemaker.
"At high school he talked a lot about how things should be.
Oswald - he added - began to be interested in communism
when he was 15 years old, when a Marxist pamphlet came to his
hands. Later, he read Karl Marx's Capital, the bible of
communism. At 17, Oswald left school only 23 days after the
high school term started, and soon joined the Marine Corps.
"His military career was a failure. On two occasions he was
court martialed for violating regulations. His specialty was as an
operator of electronics equipment. He served in Japan but never
got farther than private first class.
"Oswald's career in the Marines concluded on September
11th, 1959, when he was given leave to support his mother. He
was transferred to inactive reserve but later on was dishonorably
discharged.
"One month later, Oswald arrived in Moscow. On October
26th, 1959, he visited the American Embassy and announced his
intention of giving up his citizenship. He told Embassy officials:
'I am a Marxist.'
"In February 1962, after a study of his case, the conclusion
was reached that Oswald had not acquired Soviet citizenship and
therefore at his request they gave him a U.S. passport and granted
him a loan in order to return to the country.
"Back in the United States, Oswald went to his native New
Orleans. Last June, he requested a new passport to return to the
Soviet Union. In the meantime he was involved in a dispute with
an anti-Castro Cuban, Carlos Bringuier, who said: 'I suspected
him from the beginning. Frankly I thought he could be an agent
of the FBI or CIA who tried to infiltrate us and see what we
were doing.' "
The rest is similar to what we already have read here. But
there are new ingredients. In fact a whole series, a whole
propaganda chain, distributed in doses.
First that he is a member of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee which was false. Later a man who lived in the Soviet
Union. Afterwards, a whole series of insinuations in several
cables. Today, he is not only all that, he is also a communist and
a very willing communist at that, he admits it. In fact all this is
really very strange.
Their description is not that of a fanatic. But that of an
individual with a number of characteristics that really fit what
U.S. reaction wants like a ring on a finger, that fit the worst
policy of the United States; a person who seems to have been
expressly made for this purpose, expressly made for specific ends:
to create hysteria, to unleash an anti-Soviet, anti-Cuban, anti
communist, anti-progressive, anti-liberal campaign in the United
States; to eliminate a President whose policy collided head on
with the policy promoted by the most reactionary circles in the
country after the nuclear test ban treaty, after several speeches
which were unanimously attacked for being weak toward Cuba.
What can have been the motives for the assassination of
President Kennedy? What can there be behind all this? We
cannot affirm anything because we do not have other elements
for judgment: both the personality of the individual and the
propaganda being carried out are suspicious, everything is
suspicious.
We cannot categorically affirm what is behind all this, but we
do affirm that it is suspicious; that we must be careful, that we
must be vigilant, that we must be alert. Because this man may be
innocent, a eat's paw, in a plan very well prepared by people
who knew how to prepare these plans; or he may be a sick man
and if so, the only honest thing is to hand him over for a medical
examination and not to be starting a campaign extremely
dangerous to world peace; or he may be an instrument very well
chosen and very well trained by the ultra-right, by ultraconservative
reaction of the United States with the deliberate aim
of eliminating a President who, according to them, did not carry
out the policy he should have - more warlike, more aggressive,
more adventuresome policy. And it is necessary for all people of
the United States themselves to demand that what is behind the
Kennedy assassination be clarified.
It is in the interest of the U.S. people and of the people of the
world, that this be made known, that they demand to know
what is really behind the assassination of Kennedy, that the facts
be made clear: whether the man involved is innocent, sick or an
instrument of the reactionaries, an agent of a macabre plan to
carry forward a policy of war and aggression, to place the
Government of the United States at the mercy of the most
aggressive circles of monopoly, of militarism and of the worst
agencies of the United States. It is in our interest, in the interest
of all people and of the U.S. people that we demand this.
We believe that intellectuals, lovers of peace, should
understand the seriousness of a policy of this nature, a campaign
of this type. They should understand the trend of the events and
the danger that maneuvers of this kind could mean to world
peace, and what a conspiracy of this type, what a Machiavellian
policy of this nature could lead to.
This is the analysis we wanted to make and the things we
wanted to take into consideration; to express our opinion, the
opinion of our Party and of our Government; to make known
the strong antagonisms between the governments of the United
States and ourselves, to make known the more moderate side of
their policy, that least warlike; the policy that is less aggressive
than the policy advocated by the others, or by the other U.S.
sectors. So that we, as revolutionaries, as conscious men and
women, may know how to analyze problems of this nature,
difficult problems, delicate problems, complex problems; because
policy in a country like the United States is very complex. A
countless number of factors are taken into consideration in the
policy making of this country. Very often they are contradictory
factors. But undoubtedly, these things that we have been pointing
out about the campaign are some of the means - certainly the
most immoral - by which policy is worked out.
What are these right-wing circles trying to do? To impose on
the new administration? What is the plan of these circles? To
place the new administration in a de facto situation facing an
inflamed public opinion, exacerbated by propaganda, by the
campaign; a public opinion moved by profound hatred toward
the Soviet Union, toward Cuba, toward progressive ideas, even
towards liberal ideas. That is, this campaign tends to place the
United States in the worst international position, in the most
reactionary international position. And that surely is a serious
threat to peace.
We are not worried about ourselves. We are worried about
the interests of mankind.
We know that the fate of our country depends also on the
fate of mankind; we do not fear for ourselves; we are and always
will be calm. We are concerned about peace and about calling
attention to all these events.
We are concerned to give warning of the dangers of these
events. We want the people to be informed and calm, as they
have always been, as staunch and as willing as always, to defend
the Revolution. That they be ready always to defend the
fatherland, with a morale as high as ever, as high as the Turquino
mountain - as Camilo used to say: that they be ready, alert, and
vigilant as always, facing intrigues and dangers, whatever they
may be!
However contemptible, however infamous, however criminal
these campaigns may be, let the enemies of our country know
that they will always find us unwavering, that they will always
find us alert, with our head held high, ready to fulfill our slogan,
Homeland or Death! We will win!
Great post by the way Robert, good work!
In any event John Kennedy was using Lisa Howard and William Attwood to do an end run around that State Department (and CIA and Pentagon) who no doubt would have been enraged to find out that JFK was contemplating a deal with Cuba that would leave Castro in power. Those guys wanted to kill Castro, not make a "peace deal" that would keep Castro in power. This, along with JFK's war with Lyndon Johnson, could be the 2 big reasons for the JFK assassination.This of coarse was after the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis, of coarse "they" felt (betrayed by Kennedy), not once, with the Bay of Pigs by not sending in U.S. Military. Not twice with the Cuban Missile Crisis by not sending in U.S. Military but three times by creating a "peace deal" with Castro and not sending in U.S. Military.
"They" also felt betrayed by Kennedy when (he) Kennedy paid Castro 53 million dollars for the brigade members that were captured by Castro, "they" wanted to go in and forcefully remove those prisoners and kill Castro, but that too didn't happen.
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Excellent work, Rob. What is very bizarre how less than two days after the assassination he has found so many holes in the story, which at that time had barely even been created. He was probably very familiar with assassination attempts and the stories behind them.
He was probably very familiar with assassination attempts and the stories behind them.I have not completely ruled out Castro knowing something before hand of Kennedy's assassination, as my friend Jose Pujol puts it so passionately, he thinks Castro was involved, others who have fought Castro and plotted to assassinate him said, "I don't think Castro was involved directly, but he help by incorporating something".
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He was a dictator 40 years ago, as he is a dictator today 40 years later, its time for him, his brother, his cabinet to fall.
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Since at least the publication of Sylvia Meagher's Accessories After the Fact, it has been taken as a "given" by most conspiracy theorists that Charles Givens told two lies regarding the assassination of President Kennedy. 1. He initially claimed he saw Oswald in the domino room at 11:50 AM on the day of the shooting, but then pretended this never occurred. 2 He initially claimed he saw Oswald on the fifth floor as he (Givens) headed down for lunch between 11:30 and 11:45, but then testified he saw Oswald on the sixth floor, during his lunch, after going back up to get his cigarettes.
I have found reason to believe the first of these lies was not a lie, but a colossal misunderstanding.
The source of the confusion is an FBI report on its 11-22-63 interview of Givens. It has long been quoted as claiming: "Givens observed Lee reading a newspaper in the domino room where the employees eat lunch about 11:50 A.M." Some researchers, based upon this statement, have even taken to stating that Givens said he saw Oswald at 11:50 in the domino room.
But this is clearly incorrect. And here's why. This FBI report is not a verbatim account of Givens' statements. It is a typed-up report taken from the notes created by the FBI agent interviewing Givens. While the FBI has never released the original notes of any of its agents, I have recently realized there is another report written based upon these notes that sheds fresh light on what Givens actually said. This report is a teletype written early on the 23rd in which Dallas Special Agent in Charge Gordon Shanklin summarized the interviews conducted in Dallas for FBI headquarters.
Here is Shanklin's discussion of Givens:
"Charles Douglas Givens, Employee, TSBD, worked on sixth floor until about eleven thirty A.M. Left at this time going down on elevator. Saw Oswald on fifth floor as left going down. Oswald told him to close the gates when he got to first floor so Oswald could signal for elevator later. Givens stayed on first floor until twelve o'clock and then walked out of the building to watch the parade pass. Oswald was reading paper in the first floor domino room seven-fifty A.M. November twenty two last when Givens came to work."
This passage can be found in FBI file 62-109060, sec 9, p54 here: Shanklin on Givens
As you can see he specifies that Givens saw Oswald at 7:50, not 11:50 as appeared in the typed-up report. But that's not quite accurate, either. After reading Shanklin's account, I went back and re-read the FBI's typed-up report on its interview with Givens, and realized that the report had actually never claimed Givens saw Oswald at 11:50. This is what people thought it claimed. But it's not what it actually claimed. It actually claimed exactly what Shanklin said it claimed, with the unfortunate subtraction of the time Givens saw Oswald. Here is the confusingly written passage, from which people, including myself, have long extracted that Givens saw Oswald at 11:50.
"Givens said that during the past few days Lee had commented that he rode to work with a boy named Wesley. Givens said all employees enter the back door of the building when Jack Dougherty, the foreman opens the door about 7 A.M. On the morning of November 22, 1963, Givens observed Lee reading a newspaper in the domino room where the employees eat lunch about 11:50 A.M.” (CD5 p329)
So, you see, by leaving out the time Givens saw Oswald--7:50--the writer of the report allowed people to think the words "On the morning" referred to 11:50.
It's clear when one views this all in context, moreover, that Givens never did claim to see Oswald at 11:50. It's not all bad news for conspiracy theorists, however. Oswald's reading the paper at 7:50 in the domino room does little to suggest his guilt, and actually makes him look less guilty. I mean, if he's gonna shoot the President in a few hours, shouldn't he be picking out a window or stacking up some boxes or something?
There's also this. Shanklin's teletype asserts that Givens: "Saw Oswald on fifth floor as left going down. Oswald told him to close the gates when he got to first floor so Oswald could signal for elevator later. Givens stayed on first floor until twelve o'clock and then walked out of the building to watch the parade pass."
While the FBI's typed-up report said Givens traveled to the first floor and then walked around until 12 o'clock, it did not specify that he did not go back up. Shanklin's message is much more specific on this matter. There is NO WAY this is compatible with Givens' subsequent testimony he went back up to the sixth floor and talked to Oswald. Shanklin's teletype thereby clears Givens of one lie, but helps convict him of another.
It's clear when one views this all in context, moreover, that Givens never did claim to see Oswald at 11:50. It's not all bad news for conspiracy theorists, however. Oswald's reading the paper at 7:50 in the domino room does little to suggest his guilt, and actually makes him look less guilty. I mean, if he's gonna shoot the President in a few hours, shouldn't he be picking out a window or stacking up some boxes or something?Not that I'm in anyway saying Oswald is guilty of killing the president, I'm the first to disagree and suggest he was in fact set up, but to assume of someones innocents because he was reading the paper and not getting down to business rarely means anything if you're conspiring to assassinate someone, it doesn't entirely mean you're off the hook. I mean if I were to whack someone. I'd want to make it look as inconspicuous as possible, and if it meant reading the paper, then completing my job at a latter time, then that's what I'm gonna do.
I agree, Scott, that Oswald's reading the paper doesn't really tell us all that much. But there are a number of Oswald-did-it types who insist Oswald didn't really work that day, but only pretended to work while preparing for his moment. If Oswald spent the first part of the day calmly reading the paper, that cuts into their nonsense.
I understand, isn't there anything indicating any time cards on those who worked that day, weren't they interviewed? I read somewhere about another employee named Frankie Kaiser was he there when Oswald was apparently at work?
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I was wondering about the letter Oswald wrote to a Mr Hunt. Which Hunt do you think was writing to?
E.Howard or H.L?
Mark, IMHO, if (and only if) that letter is authentic, then Oswald would have addressed E.H. Hunt by his CIA Alias, "Eduardo," and not by his last name. So, since the writer used the name, "Hunt," he was almost certainly writing to H.L. Hunt.
--Paul Trejo
^^ Not necessarily true, E.H Hunt was "Eduardo" to the anti-Castro groups and during the Bay of Pigs, in fact many knew him by his real name, even during the Bay of Pigs. In fact Sturgis knew E.H. Hunt since 1954 during the Guatemalan coup. He only adopted that name "Eduardo" while he was involved with the Cubans in South Florida.
Scott, I agree that Oswald might not have used the name "Eduardo" when addressing E.H. Hunt in writing -- but Hunt had other aliases, too. Insofar as Oswald was accepted in the fringes of the rogue CIA underground, he would have known the appropriate alias, and he would have used the proper alias when writing to E.H. Hunt. He wouldn't have used his real name, IMHO. That's why I say it's better than 50/50 that Oswald was writing to H.L. Hunt (if the letter is authentic).
Think of Oswald's situation in life; he did not like holding down regular jobs. He changed menial jobs so often that one gets the idea he took those jobs only to provide a cover for his lifestyle. He obtained cash from his many post office boxes, and also from the local Western Union (according to a clerk in the Dallas Western Union). He owned a Minolta spy camera; he was always looking for money. Clay Shaw was mainly a money source for Oswald (and Banister and Ferrie). Oswald saw the older spies go to very rich people to ask for money for right-wing adventures -- and get it. He was practicing for the day when he would call the shots, IMHO.
Best regards,
--Paul Trejo
Sorry, I have edited my last post and added more information sense then, I meant to say, ^^ Not necessarily true, E.H Hunt was "Eduardo" to the anti-Castro groups and during the Bay of Pigs, in fact many knew him by his real name, even during the Bay of Pigs. In fact Sturgis knew E.H. Hunt since 1954 during the Guatemalan coup. He only adopted that name "Eduardo" while he was involved with the Cubans in South Florida.
Mark Lane describes this letter as a possible forgery while being very skeptical, and in 1999, the note was revealed to be a "Soviet forgery" in a book by KGB defector Vasili Mitrokhin. perhaps written by the Russians. Why would any Russian write this? But should it be taken at face value? The House Select Committee on assassinations had three handwriting experts examine the note to determine its authenticity. I do beleive that someone in the KGB is seeking notoriety by adding one more book to the all ready long list.
The writing and signature of that letter and the entire of Lee in my father's phone book are nearly identical, am I to beleive that because some Soviet KGB says its a "Soviet forgery" am I suppose to beleive him? If in fact this letter is authenticate and sense Lee was a Marxist who as an individual would develop his own capacities and talents. I say Oswald may have been swinging both ways, on one hand he was anti-Castro, but on the other he was pro-Cuba. So what does that say about a confused young man? I don't beleive that letter had anything to do with H.L. Hunt. There is ample information/evidence that Oswald visited South Miami where he may have encountered Howard Hunt, which makes sense, but I seriously doubt that Oswald and H.L. Hunt who calls himself the richest man in the world would be rubbing elbows.
I do apologize for the several error, typo's and misspelled words, that's what happens when I'm usually in a hurry.
Scott
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I was wondering about the letter Oswald wrote to a Mr Hunt. Which Hunt do you think was writing to?
E.Howard or H.L?
Mark, IMHO, if (and only if) that letter is authentic, then Oswald would have addressed E.H. Hunt by his CIA Alias, "Eduardo," and not by his last name. So, since the writer used the name, "Hunt," he was almost certainly writing to H.L. Hunt.
--Paul Trejo
^^ Not necessarily true, E.H Hunt was "Eduardo" to the anti-Castro groups and during the Bay of Pigs, in fact many knew him by his real name, even during the Bay of Pigs. In fact Sturgis knew E.H. Hunt since 1954 during the Guatemalan coup. He only adopted that name "Eduardo" while he was involved with the Cubans in South Florida.
Mark Lane describes this letter as a possible forgery while being very skeptical, and in 1999, the note was revealed to be a "Soviet forgery" in a book by KGB defector Vasili Mitrokhin. perhaps written by the Russians. Why would any Russian write this? But should it be taken at face value? The House Select Committee on assassinations had three handwriting experts examine the note to determine its authenticity. I do beleive that someone in the KGB is seeking notoriety by adding one more book to the all ready long list.
The writing and signature of that letter and the entire of Lee is my father's phone book are nearly identical, am I to beleive that because some Soviet KGB says its a "Soviet forgery" am I suppose to beleive him? If in fact this letter is authenticate and sense Lee was a Marxist who as an individual would develop his own capacities and talents. I say Oswald may have been swinging both ways, on one hand he was anti-Castro, but on the other he was pro-Cuba. So what does that say about a confused young man? I don't beleive that letter had anything to do with H.L. Hunt. There is ample information/evidence that Oswald visited South Miami where he may have encountered Howard Hunt, which makes sense, but I seriously doubt that Oswald and H.L. Hunt who calls himself the richest man in the world would be rubbing elbows.
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Since at least the publication of Sylvia Meagher's Accessories After the Fact, it has been taken as a "given" by most conspiracy theorists that Charles Givens told two lies regarding the assassination of President Kennedy. 1. He initially claimed he saw Oswald in the domino room at 11:50 AM on the day of the shooting, but then pretended this never occurred. 2 He initially claimed he saw Oswald on the fifth floor as he (Givens) headed down for lunch between 11:30 and 11:45, but then testified he saw Oswald on the sixth floor, during his lunch, after going back up to get his cigarettes.
I have found reason to believe the first of these lies was not a lie, but a colossal misunderstanding.
The source of the confusion is an FBI report on its 11-22-63 interview of Givens. It has long been quoted as claiming: "Givens observed Lee reading a newspaper in the domino room where the employees eat lunch about 11:50 A.M." Some researchers, based upon this statement, have even taken to stating that Givens said he saw Oswald at 11:50 in the domino room.
But this is clearly incorrect. And here's why. This FBI report is not a verbatim account of Givens' statements. It is a typed-up report taken from the notes created by the FBI agent interviewing Givens. While the FBI has never released the original notes of any of its agents, I have recently realized there is another report written based upon these notes that sheds fresh light on what Givens actually said. This report is a teletype written early on the 23rd in which Dallas Special Agent in Charge Gordon Shanklin summarized the interviews conducted in Dallas for FBI headquarters.
Here is Shanklin's discussion of Givens:
"Charles Douglas Givens, Employee, TSBD, worked on sixth floor until about eleven thirty A.M. Left at this time going down on elevator. Saw Oswald on fifth floor as left going down. Oswald told him to close the gates when he got to first floor so Oswald could signal for elevator later. Givens stayed on first floor until twelve o'clock and then walked out of the building to watch the parade pass. Oswald was reading paper in the first floor domino room seven-fifty A.M. November twenty two last when Givens came to work."
This passage can be found in FBI file 62-109060, sec 9, p54 here: Shanklin on Givens
As you can see he specifies that Givens saw Oswald at 7:50, not 11:50 as appeared in the typed-up report. But that's not quite accurate, either. After reading Shanklin's account, I went back and re-read the FBI's typed-up report on its interview with Givens, and realized that the report had actually never claimed Givens saw Oswald at 11:50. This is what people thought it claimed. But it's not what it actually claimed. It actually claimed exactly what Shanklin said it claimed, with the unfortunate subtraction of the time Givens saw Oswald. Here is the confusingly written passage, from which people, including myself, have long extracted that Givens saw Oswald at 11:50.
"Givens said that during the past few days Lee had commented that he rode to work with a boy named Wesley. Givens said all employees enter the back door of the building when Jack Dougherty, the foreman opens the door about 7 A.M. On the morning of November 22, 1963, Givens observed Lee reading a newspaper in the domino room where the employees eat lunch about 11:50 A.M.” (CD5 p329)
So, you see, by leaving out the time Givens saw Oswald--7:50--the writer of the report allowed people to think the words "On the morning" referred to 11:50.
It's clear when one views this all in context, moreover, that Givens never did claim to see Oswald at 11:50. It's not all bad news for conspiracy theorists, however. Oswald's reading the paper at 7:50 in the domino room does little to suggest his guilt, and actually makes him look less guilty. I mean, if he's gonna shoot the President in a few hours, shouldn't he be picking out a window or stacking up some boxes or something?
There's also this. Shanklin's teletype asserts that Givens: "Saw Oswald on fifth floor as left going down. Oswald told him to close the gates when he got to first floor so Oswald could signal for elevator later. Givens stayed on first floor until twelve o'clock and then walked out of the building to watch the parade pass."
While the FBI's typed-up report said Givens traveled to the first floor and then walked around until 12 o'clock, it did not specify that he did not go back up. Shanklin's message is much more specific on this matter. There is NO WAY this is compatible with Givens' subsequent testimony he went back up to the sixth floor and talked to Oswald. Shanklin's teletype thereby clears Givens of one lie, but helps convict him of another.
It's clear when one views this all in context, moreover, that Givens never did claim to see Oswald at 11:50. It's not all bad news for conspiracy theorists, however. Oswald's reading the paper at 7:50 in the domino room does little to suggest his guilt, and actually makes him look less guilty. I mean, if he's gonna shoot the President in a few hours, shouldn't he be picking out a window or stacking up some boxes or something?Not that I'm in anyway saying Oswald is guilty of killing the president, I'm the first to disagree and suggest he was in fact set up, but to assume of someones innocents because he was reading the paper and not getting down to business rarely means anything if you're conspiring to assassinate someone, it doesn't entirely mean you're off the hook. I mean if I were to whack someone. I'd want to make it look as inconspicuous as possible, and if it meant reading the paper, then completing my job at a latter time, then that's what I'm gonna do.
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I was wondering about the letter Oswald wrote to a Mr Hunt. Which Hunt do you think was writing to?
E.Howard or H.L?
H.L. Hunt was an oil tycoon, by 1957 his estimated fortune was approximately $400 to $700 million dollars. Hunts support of Barry Goldwater for the Republican party in 1964 led to smarting under that rebuff and disgusted with Johnson's liberal policies after assuming the presidency in 1963.
Hunt supported Eisenhower in 1956, however, in 1960 pushed hard for the nomination of LBJ and because LBJ agreed to become JFK running mate Hunt contributed some $100,000 to Kennedy's administration.
Hunt who is a successful business man out of Dallas TX lived in a relatively modest home in Dallas. Hunt was also often overheard while introducing himself to strangers by saying. "Hello, I am H.L. Hunt, the worlds richest man"... I do beleive that had Oswald contact H.L.Hunt rather then E.H. Hunt the writings of that letter would have reflected so. Although,
LHO was living in Dallas after moving from New Orleans, LHO also visited Miami, and because there is no hard facts of LHO visiting Miami there has been reported sightings of Oswald who may or may not have had an encounter with Frank Sturgis.
There also seems to be a tape of LHO hiding his face when the filming took place sometime in late 1962 or early part of 1963 in the South Florida Everglades, those who were present in that film were Marita Lorenz, Frank Sturgis and Frank Bender aka Gerry Doller.
Howard Hunts early ties to the 1954 Guatemalan coup dubbed "Operation PBSUCCESS", which was also approved by president Eisenhower, many of the same players participated in their very own domestic coup called "Dealey Plaza".
Because of Howard Hunts ties to Nixon's anti-Castro underworld and his assassins towards unfriendly foreign leaders, only leads me to beleive that Hunts roll as a "bench warmer" was in fact true. Hunts stayed in South Florida which allowed him to under go a much larger operation and covertly work with those in the organization while keeping it totally secret. The birth of setting up Oswald was well on its way. Hunt would latter bribe Nixon for two million dollars for hush money? In the meantime Nixon tries to blackmail CIA chief Richard Helms over the secrets that Hunt might blab regarding CIA's links to "the Bay of Pigs After all, Nixon said, "Of course, this Hunt, You open that scab, that will uncover a lot of things."
"In fact, I was puzzled when he [Nixon] told me, 'Tell Ehrlichman this whole group of Cubans [Watergate burglars] is tied to the Bay of Pigs.' After a pause I said, 'The Bay of Pigs? What does that have to do with this [the Watergate burglary]?' But Nixon merely said, 'Ehrlichman will know what I mean,' and dropped the subject."
Later in his book, Haldeman appears to answer his own question when he says, "It seems that in all of those Nixon references to the Bay of Pigs, he was actually referring to the Kennedy assassination." In short to answer your question as to whether Oswald was referring to H.L. Hunt or E.H. Hunt. I do beleive he was referring to the latter.
Do you access to the tape of LHO hiding his face when the filming took place sometime in late 1962 or early part of 1963 in the South Florida Everglades, those who were present in that film were Marita Lorenz, Frank Sturgis and Frank Bender aka Gerry Doller.
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The person standing behind Frank Sturgis just ten second into this film then quickly turns away when he notices he is being filmed has been identified as Lee Oswald.
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In this second film, it is NOT Oswald, but someone else, Oswald was standing behind Sturgis, you can't see him in this film, who you can see are Frank Sturgis, the man holding the gun and Frank Bender aka Gerry Doller waring an army hat, fatigues and glasses.
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Here is the FULL clip of everyone.
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I was wondering about the letter Oswald wrote to a Mr Hunt. Which Hunt do you think was writing to?
E.Howard or H.L?
H.L. Hunt was an oil tycoon, by 1957 his estimated fortune was approximately $400 to $700 million dollars. Hunts support of Barry Goldwater for the Republican party in 1964 led to smarting under that rebuff and disgusted with Johnson's liberal policies after assuming the presidency in 1963.
Hunt supported Eisenhower in 1956, however, in 1960 pushed hard for the nomination of LBJ and because LBJ agreed to become JFK running mate Hunt contributed some $100,000 to Kennedy's administration.
Hunt who is a successful business man out of Dallas TX lived in a relatively modest home in Dallas. Hunt was also often overheard while introducing himself to strangers by saying. "Hello, I am H.L. Hunt, the worlds richest man"... I do beleive that had Oswald contact H.L.Hunt rather then E.H. Hunt the writings of that letter would have reflected so. Although,
LHO was living in Dallas after moving from New Orleans, LHO also visited Miami, and because there is no hard facts of LHO visiting Miami there has been reported sightings of Oswald who may or may not have had an encounter with Frank Sturgis.
There also seems to be a tape of LHO hiding his face when the filming took place sometime in late 1962 or early part of 1963 in the South Florida Everglades, those who were present in that film were Marita Lorenz, Frank Sturgis and Frank Bender aka Gerry Doller.
Howard Hunts early ties to the 1954 Guatemalan coup dubbed "Operation PBSUCCESS", which was also approved by president Eisenhower, many of the same players participated in their very own domestic coup called "Dealey Plaza".
Because of Howard Hunts ties to Nixon's anti-Castro underworld and his assassins towards unfriendly foreign leaders, only leads me to beleive that Hunts roll as a "bench warmer" was in fact true. Hunts stayed in South Florida which allowed him to under go a much larger operation and covertly work with those in the organization while keeping it totally secret. The birth of setting up Oswald was well on its way. Hunt would latter bribe Nixon for two million dollars for hush money? In the meantime Nixon tries to blackmail CIA chief Richard Helms over the secrets that Hunt might blab regarding CIA's links to "the Bay of Pigs After all, Nixon said, "Of course, this Hunt, You open that scab, that will uncover a lot of things."
"In fact, I was puzzled when he [Nixon] told me, 'Tell Ehrlichman this whole group of Cubans [Watergate burglars] is tied to the Bay of Pigs.' After a pause I said, 'The Bay of Pigs? What does that have to do with this [the Watergate burglary]?' But Nixon merely said, 'Ehrlichman will know what I mean,' and dropped the subject."
Later in his book, Haldeman appears to answer his own question when he says, "It seems that in all of those Nixon references to the Bay of Pigs, he was actually referring to the Kennedy assassination." In short to answer your question as to whether Oswald was referring to H.L. Hunt or E.H. Hunt. I do beleive he was referring to the latter.
Nixon Operative Roger Stone on JFK Assassination: "LBJ had it done. Mob, CIA, Hoover, all in on it. RFK knew. So did Nixon."
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Scott Kaiser
According to my father's date and time to appear and testify at the Watergate Hearings was on February 7, 1973, I'm looking for witlessness's testimonies, is it ironic that my father would be killed on February 7, 1977 just days before he was suppose to testify at the HSCA?