Scott Kaiser

Good question Tom,

New analysis of these records will include that question

BK

Excellent.

Thanks, Bill

Tom

Bill, OR ANYONE!

Looking at the records that were denied for many years and have now been released, have the releasing agencies ever been challenged when it appears that National Security was not an issue, and the records should never have been denied?

Thanks for any thoughts,

Tom

I can hardly wait!

However, some compartmentalised groups still want to invade Cuba, and are blaming the assassination on Fidel Castro and the KGB.

Any of these "compartmentalised groups" candidates for running dope while ostensibly battling Castro, before or after the assassination of JFK?

I can clearly see, your not anything like those who believe the ignoring policy, is the best policy, Cliff if I had a Cuban cigar to hand you I would. I also touch on this very subject in my update.

Scott,

Are you saying Castro had something to do with JFK's murder?

Or that because Castro wasn't killed, it was necessary to kill JFK and pin the murder on Oswald, a public supporter of Castro?

What I'm saying is, had this assassins pride not gotten in the way, and would've killed Castro, Kennedy would've lived a long life.

objection. calls for speculation. sustained

My apologies your honor, allow me to restate my statement.

Nestor Sanchez, who had taken over AMLASH met with Cubela in a safe house in Paris, France on October 5, 1963 just a month before Kennedy's assassination. Cubela wanted to meet with a high representative of Kennedy's administration, not just anyone, he wanted to meet with Robert Kennedy. The plan was to "entangle" both the Kennedy brother's in the assassination of Fidel Castro.

If the demand was rejected Sanchez had warned that Cubela might bolt. On October 29, 1963, Robert Kennedy appointed Desmond FitzGerald to appear and meet with Cubela in Paris. Robert Kennedy did not show up. At this meeting, Cubela also met with James Clark, someone Robert Kennedy said he was close to. After handing Cubela a ballpoint pen that would inject a lethal dose of poison into Castro on November 22, 1963. FitzGerald had just placed a call from Washington, to Sanchez in Paris, telling him of president Kennedy's assassination, at that moment, Cubela declined to go through with the assassination of Fidel Castro, the deed was done.

I rest my case!

scott - you commandeered this thread. In my opinion you should confine your posts about your BOP theory to an appropriate thread, such as the ones you started.

"scott - you commandeered this thread."

Everyone speaks about the Bay of Pigs, it's okay, Scott speaks he "commandeered" the thread, lol....

Paul, don't hate the player, hate the game.

" In my opinion"

Tell me, why should yours matter, and mine doesn't?

When Scott speaks, even EF Hutton listens.

Dean Rusk and McGeorge Bundy owed their jobs to Lovett and the elder Kennedy, the principal architects of the mission's guaranteed failure.

Was it because of the call Bundy made? Was it because Rusk wanted to cut the size down in false flag attacks? No matter the reason, what they DID certainly doomed what little chance of success the Brigade had.

Did, Dulles leave for Puerto Rico before DDay-1 starts so he could cry out "plausible deniability" as the president would have also done had the landing been a success? However, in this case, it wasn't, which meant the president had no other choice but to accept public responsibility.

The CIA wanting to take matters into their own hands wanted retribution, the president accepted responsibility, the Cubans were still screaming for a free Cuba, some Bay of Pigs prisoners were still locked up after Kennedy's assassination.

Two years went by, and according to members of JURE and DRE Oswald was their delivering grace.

Kennedy gets assassinated, Dulles [who had nothing to do with the assassination] sits on the Warren Commission on behalf of LBJs request to help in the cover-up, the cover-up begins.

However, some compartmentalised groups still want to invade Cuba, and are blaming the assassination on Fidel Castro and the KGB.

In order to prevent WWIII LBJ wants the Warren Commission to quickly come up with a alone assassin, sell it to America and the rest of the world, and hope they buy it. If not, you guys, who sat at that table pounding for evidence no matter who you discovered that had any connections to Oswald will always have the definitive answer why? Because, your names are signed at the bottom of this document.

The End,

Scott Kaiser

if you choose to view it that way, it's your loss, not mine.

If you choose not to believe me, it's your loss, not mine.

Sec. of State could have convinced Kennedy to cancel it at any time prior to D-Day-1.

Oh....My....God, do you mean to tell me, stupid me, who knows nothing, that Kennedy could have cancelled the Bay of Pigs, or at the very least postponed it until they had a sure thing, or felt like there was a real bet?

Lord, where did I ever hear that before! Slaps my forehead!

Should have put more spies in Cuba to get a feeling of the "overwhelming majority" on how they would help, or abandon the Brigade's efforts before everyone got itchy trigger fingers. I'm sure this was a learning lesson.

What was the major consequence of the failure of the BOP?

Bundy, calling the CIA and informing them to "standdown" as well as the time difference whereas the Skyhawks and B-26s could've worked hand in hand. The company did consider the people in Cuba would have revolted against Castro, however, the CIA underestimated the people's allegiance to Castro.

Could that have been the intended consequence all along, once Rusk and Bundy took office?

Good question.

Scott,

Are you saying Castro had something to do with JFK's murder?

Or that because Castro wasn't killed, it was necessary to kill JFK and pin the murder on Oswald, a public supporter of Castro?

What I'm saying is, had this assassins pride not gotten in the way, and would've killed Castro, Kennedy would've lived a long life.

There was no CIA attempt to coerce Kennedy to commit troops.

• Translated: The notion to "push propaganda" the CIA tried to force Kennedy's hand into committing military troops is BS!

Then Rusk bitched to Kennedy about the size of the false flag fleet and it was cut from 16 to 8

However, we already know MORE than 16 planes were destroyed, under the watch of the CIA.

Stephen:

It appears that the initial reports were not quite as accurate as we might have wished!

The summary originally published by whowhatwhy.org said that the files contained, among other things, "Documents related to the media, x-rays of Kennedy’s body, autopsy photographs, the famed Zapruder film, footage shot by Orville Nix and other witnesses." The existence of this specific group of records no longer appears to be the case, and the web page has been amended to reflect this, as follows: - "Note: due to an editing error, an earlier version of this article incorrectly referenced several topics that were not found in the papers. It has been updated to remove those references."

Chris.

It appears that the initial reports were not quite as accurate as we might have wished!

There's enough testosterone in all these forms, no need for me to mention I was among the first, if not, the first to tell you. "I told you so."

Does it matter? I didn't want to "re-enlist".

You brought it up, so it is a reasonable request. You could have said you were in the Navy and nothing further. However, the way you phrased your statement indicates you either didn't want to re-up because you didn't like it, you were not given the opportunity to re-enlist, or you got the boot. This could explain the rather LARGE chip on your shoulder.

What you did and where you did it, indicates what you are familiar with. You could have served on a carrier for example, which would be relevant.

If Castro shot down 5 US jets who were violating international law, he would hardly have keep silent all these years.

Who said he was?

Then show me a quote from one of his speeches were he castigates the US for violating international law. You certainly don't think I meant he said something behind closed doors, do you? He certainly had no problem getting press regarding the false flag B-26s he discovered. Did he not keep the dead body of one of the National Guard pilots, which was eventually released to his family? He didn't keep silent when the U-2 was downed, and his body was returned also. So why would he not do this for any of the 5 Navy pilots you say were shot down?

Your post #109 is a website for the Essex. I responded that I was already communicating with Essex and VA-34 personnel.

Tom,

I really don't have the time to play these games with you, I'm off to my brothers sons birthday party, have a good day.

Scott - what's that chip - more like log - on your shoulder all about?

I'm not sure what that means, but if has to do with me having inside information, and you don't, who really has that log on their shoulder? Listen, I told you that the American government contends only (16) planes were shot down, when in fact there were a total of (19) and some of the members of the Brigade didn't even know about the air cover.

Don't get upset with me because there's information I have and you don't it just works out that way brother!

By the way, Fidel Castro knew they shot down a crap load of planes, but I don't think he'd know the difference.

A high ranking mole in the Cuban government pushes the pen away that was suppose to kill Fidel Castro, the assassin was all too embarrassed of killing Castro in a dramatic way. The assassin wanted to go into the presidential palace with guns blazing and shoot Castro just as director for the CIA had testified in the past, Richard Helms.

As a result, Fidel Castro lives and Kennedy is gunned down, it was this incident that changed the course of history, that pen, you could say, the "pen is mightier than the sword".

Are you saying you were kicked out, or didn't re-up? What was your Rating i.e. what did you do?

Does it matter? Or was answering your statement "you were never in the military either" what's important? Does it make a difference whether I was there for a period of time, or not? The fact is, my CC shouldn't have pissed me off, than when I had to go before the captain, I almost asked the captain, how the hell did you make captain? I didn't want to "re-enlist" my ASVAB scores were extremely high, I knew the captain didn't like me much, but than again, the feeling was mutual.

Immediately? No. But is has been 55 years.

Are you saying the American government really adheres to it's executive order of disclosing information after 50 years, and we don't have Hillary Clinton trying to run for president either.

If Castro shot down 5 US jets who were violating international law, he would hardly have keep silent all these years.

Who said he was?

Not that I'm aware of -- you said you could prove it but you wouldn't release the name of your source until he's deceased. What is the post number of this list?

#109

This is how the government response to a crisis:

The My Lai Massacre was the mass murder of 347 to 504 unarmed citizens of the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam). They were almost entirely civilians, the majority of them women and children. The massacre was conducted by U.S. Army forces on March 16, 1968. Before being killed some of the victims were raped and sexually molested, beaten, tortured, or maimed. Some of the dead bodies were also mutilated.

Six months later, Tom Glen, a 21-year-old soldier of the 11th Light Infantry Brigade, wrote a letter to General Creighton Abrams, the new overall commander of U.S. forces in Vietnam, accusing the Americal Division (and other entire units of the U.S. military) of routine and pervasive brutality against Vietnamese civilians. The letter was detailed and its contents echoed complaints received from other soldiers.

Colin Powell, then a 31-year-old Army Major, was charged with investigating the letter, which did not specifically reference My Lai (Glen had limited knowledge of the events there). In his report Powell wrote: “In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent.” Powell’s handling of the assignment was later characterized by some observers as “whitewashing” the atrocities of My Lai. In May 2004, Powell, then United States Secretary of State, told CNN’s Larry King, “I mean, I was in a unit that was responsible for My Lai. I got there after My Lai happened. So, in war, these sorts of horrible things happen every now and again, but they are still to be deplored.”

you were never in the military either.

I was Navy, before getting into a fight with my CC.

Do you really believe the government would immediately go to the families and inform them of their loss during the Bay of Pigs when the Vietnam war was also going on? Ugh!

You speak about memory, well, I for one have a damn good one, and can remember back to when I was four years old, and guess what. I'l also dealt with many sincere people who were absolutely certain, and were completely right.

The short version is you need a combination of the records AND first-hand knowledge.

Where do you suppose I got the information, I did give you a list of names to contact didn't I?

My thoughts would be, many of the surviving members of the Bay of Pigs are still very much living, and many feel the same way about Cuba today, as they did 50 years ago, imagine if this information became public, they'd have a field day with it, so, do you suppose the government is just going to sit on that information for another 20-30 years when everyone is gone? You have me thinking, good night.

The Essex started out with 12 Skyhawks on the ship, only six flew, five got shot down, this is the secrecy they are sworn to, you see. I can tell you, I am not sworn to secrecy.

You're going to have to come up with A LOT more than that if you're going to convince anyone that 5 US military jet aircraft were shot down at the BOP invasion, and it is still a secret today...

Tom, I can prove it, but to release his name would not be a good idea, you have to understand, this information may still be tied up in the fifth volume of the Bay of Pigs that Obama's administration has blocked, why after all this time I don't know, but you see, had this news been made public "at that time", America would have certainly screamed out for an all out war with Cuba that would have certainly dragged Russia into it. Keeping a lid on it was in the best interest of world war III.

I will release his name, after he's dead, fare enough?

Scott:

You are saying that 3 T-33's shot down five Skyhawks?

Scott, you understand just the logistical problem here?

In 1961 a Skyhawk was an operational plane. iI would be used a lot in Vietnam, and was actually used all the way until the Falklands War. It had a cruising speed of up to 600 MPH. It was a turbojet powered plane. It has small wings which made it ideal for maneuverability. It carried cannon and air to air missiles. In fact, it was so maneuverable it was used by the Blue Angels. It was in production until 1979.

The T-33 was mostly used for training purposes in 1961. They stopped making them in 1959. One of the planes that phased it out was the Skyhawk.

"You are saying that 3 T-33's shot down five Skyhawks?"

NO! I'm saying that Fidel Castro's ground artillery helped! Ugh!

Now, I'm going to sleep, should there be anymore questions for me, I'm not ignoring you, I'll answer in the morning.

I thought I was asking a respectful question, I don't believe I was being disrespectful at all by asking a simple yes or no question, I understand how this works now as this births a flashback to post #61. No worries Jim, it's late, and I'm off to bed, tomorrow is another day.

Good night friends, glad I was able to contribute even in the most smallest way. Thanks Tom for your back up material, I suppose it only strengthens this guy's credibility.

Good night.

SK: Jim may disagree that the airstrikes wouldn't have played a crucial part, but I don't think Jim was ever in the military either.

​My two sources were Lyman Kirkpatrick who served in the Army, and RFK who served in the Navy. Plus a military authority on amphibious landings.

Was I correct, when I said, "I don't think Jim was ever in the military either?" Not that I'm trying to prove a point here. You're right Jim, they did have military experience.

Those folks over at Guantanamo know.

I'm willing to bet that Castro even has a Skyhawk somewhere in Cuba on display.