Larry Hancock

Family members have been contacted over the years, unfortunately the last researcher contacts of a few years ago - when the claims of Morales being at the Ambassador hotel were investigated and rebutted - appear to have pretty much closed off that angle, even though they were cooperative at the time. At this point in time the things they could comment on such as his assignments, his and their travels have been pretty well documented and corroborated. Of course we do have a good amount of commentary from his friend Reuben, who shared as pretty much all he had heard from David, certainly in the areas we are concerned about.

Ron, Flawed Patriot deals with the Angleton and Harvey relationship....the Morales connections are from me based on other associations and activities entirely, not something in that book.

The book is Flawed Patriot https://www.amazon.com/Flawed-Patriot-Rise-Legend-Harvey/dp/1574889915 As far as in the loop, Shackley was aware of some of Harvey's operations but not fully read into the Castro assassination things with Roselli, beyond that there is no sign the two were close and many indicators that Morales operated on his own very possibly wearing a couple of hats including Staff D work in MC where there was a standalone JM WAVE substation. As to Helms, nope and a lot of indications that Harvey did not like him at all and for that matter felt he had been put out on a limb with ZR/RIFLE and hung out to dry, which is why he took some of notes with him when he left. One of the very few Agency folks he seems to have actually connected with personally at a senior level was Angleton.

Definitely Angleton and Harvey were much closer than most folks think; I really recommend the most recent bio on Harvey which goes into this at some length, including the ongoing correspondence between the two men and the letters suggesting they shared a secret. I develop a good deal of this in NEXUS, including the evidence suggesting Angleton was far more involved in Cuban counter intelligence than is generally discussed. Its been my proposition for some time that it was the combination of Angleton, who knew of the JFK backchannel talks, and Harvey, with his contacts at JM/WAVE - centering on Morales - that was the driving force in what developed as the attack on JFK in Dallas. With the experience, connections and common motives of those two it was an extremely dangerous combination.

George, my intent was simply to provide a warning to consider it as a source. As you can see by the post above, certainly the American intelligence community and the current administration consider it as representing foreign interests. As to sources I would refer you to the US study on Russian influence messaging, in particular Annex A which has a lot to say about RT: https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf Of course since that comes from our own government and our own intelligence community that will be challenged here I'm sure. There are some good reasons to challenge the actual reach of RT as far as broadcast television, its internet reach, especially including tweets and retweets is much broader. You might also want to search out the commentary from some of its employees such as RT editor in chief Margarita Simonyan. Everybody needs to do their own homework and certainly RT does offer some interesting content, some of it very factual and very solid - programs on fracking, on voting fraud, on vote hacking etc. But it also spends a lot of time on negative stories, even including coverage of various state succession movements such as in Texas and California. As with any media outlet it needs to appear to show some level of balance - it may actually appear more balanced than Fox for example. But it does have its own editorial objectives and as President Putin has clearly stated in public, he expects any State funded media (and any media owned by patriotic Russians) to reflect the interest of the State. In any event, whatever impact RT may or may not have, its only a very small part of a much larger history of both US and Russian messaging and it might best be compared to other state funded outlets, such as Radio Free America. Both the US and Russia have a long history in information warfare, the US used to have better tools but Russia has caught up very quickly and given the US funded democracy initiative (funded out of the State Dept) which irritates them no end, they have no intention of not responding in kind. If you want to chat more about it email or message me, I've already diverted this thread to much already.

Gentlemen, yes its pretty busy but I think I can handle this...first on the building name question, I think its important to note that the name was given in the 1999 intelligence authorization act, after Bush had been both Director and President, certainly a first for the CIA who has not had its former senior officers achieve all that much political success or recognition. Also Bush was well liked within the Agency as he did not try to massively reform it as some former Directors had, and for that matter Bush actually launched fewer major covert CIA operations initiatives than virtually any of his predecessors, leaning more to intel and analysis than covert action. Of course that may have been because he was so tied up with overt military action but it is interesting and its a point I make in Shadow Warfare. General Eisenhower was far more into covert operations than Bush was...as an example. On Morales, actually Bill Simpich and I will be speaking on Staff D and ZR/RIFLE at the conference and we will be talking about the link between Morales and Harvey and equally about the link between Harvey and Angleton and Morales and Angleton given that Angleton was deeply into Cuban intelligence, worked with Moarales' AMOT group at one point and was very close to Harvey and his new assassination project which ended up restarting ZR/RIFLE with Roselli. My speculation is that Harvey did meet with both Roselli and Morales in Florida in the spring of 63. Its also important to appreciate that Harvey carried out his Staff D role though much of 1963 and Staff D was very much involved in Mexico City, as Bill will be detailing.

Well said Paul and to be fair RT may have more balanced content than Fox....now shutting up again..

Paul, they do have some good content...David Phillips is a good lesson in that you always have to have some truth in the mix....I simply raise the caution that you have to treat it for what it is. Which of course is how all media needs to be treated, the overall editorial control on RT is simply the issue. And now I really will shut up, having annoyed Jim enough already. I don't think I have actually seen him tell anyone to shut up before - my job here must be done.

I'll weigh in on this and take a very opposite view of RT which is indeed a deep and sophisticated Russian propaganda outlet - which has actually been successful at recruiting some liberal US news commentators...sadly. Even RT former employees have acknowledged its disinformation mission (and of course you always have to mix good news and spin for disinformation). I won't argue the point further but I would encourage everyone to do their own very deep searching on RT. Jim and I have very different views about Putin and Russia it appears - I will leave him to his but feel compelled to offer my own advice on it since I've been studying the entire subject of Russian political warfare, of which RT is actually a marginal piece given that they have far greater reach with internet tools and various types of active measures.

Hi Steve, I know this is old ground but could you just give the confirmation for that assertion of his code breaking job not to mention the OAS traffic...I'm still open to it, I just need to see something solid and all I see in the papers you linked to is the same old story..or have I missed it.

Good work as always David! Also so much for the much touted name protection in the releases, looks like that was probably the only reason they withheld this in the first place - lets hope they make more of the same mistakes.

Very interesting Toby, we do have Jenkins "resume" and can compare that to this....at first glance there do appear to be either some contradictions or some revelations - this person was Deputy and then acting Chief of Station in Havana before Castro booted us out...and some of the documents appear to show him more as a manager than a field operations person which Jenkins was. Also he married a Cuban woman inside Cuba and then apparently got a divorce in Mexico. That would be certainly be new. Going to require a lot more work to make sure but in particular look for some assignments in SE Asia and for assignment to JM/WAVE in an operations position as early as 1960....

Well said David, I've been responding to the same document on Facebook. This guy was part of a staple of racist (of the Nazi superior race leanings type), virulent anti-Communists that were part of a national speakers tour (Martino appeared on the program with him in at least one venue) and they were on the look out for any anti-Communist content. I'm afraid the release that really wasn't is pumping old stuff back into the system - I'm seeing things that were debunked well over a decade ago being resurfaced.

Well said Jim....is there anything that would tie down where within the Agency, what directorate or what level of staff the fall back was conceived? Was it iterative, a follow on to Phillips and MC and the DRE...or did somebody call a meeting and make a project out of it (as with the effort to protect the WCR)? Your comment raised the question - if Helms was prepped and given a briefing book, who is it that prepares material for someone at his level, who approved it ...Helms himself or someone else. Who is it that gives the call for Helms to go to Congress and spin a fall back story, and who prepares him to do that?

Ron, rather than disrupt this thread, lets talk about Harvey and the meeting in Florida directly...just drop me a note at larryjoe@westok.net I need to look up a couple of things to refresh my own memory.

Got it, thanks Cory. As you say, it dropped the ball strictly on the President, he could either choose not to act, essentially letting the Congressional action override and release everything - or regroup. I will say that this seems to reflect poorly on the CIA Director, or the various legal staffs including WH staff. Everybody knew this was coming and it seems to me they should have seen the problem you outlined and either gotten in front of it (I mean they have had years for this and the lists of documents in question were readily available, we discussed them in Dallas last November). Could someone not at least given the President some warning that this could ball up at the last minute, that there was a whole bunch of paperwork outstanding, that he should not make any public statements as he did..etc. I follow you on process but there is also a question of "managing" the process.

Cory, help me understand - the agencies involved have had the lists of exactly what documents were affected by the JFK Records act, which were being held with redaction and which were fully postponed. They were very aware of the date of release and of the Presidential review clause. Are you really saying that they started on the paperwork for protecting all the files involved at a late date and that all that paperwork just arrived at the White House yesterday, or this week, so that there was no time for review? Did each file have to have an independent set of paperwork making the case the case on it. Given that thousands of files are still under protest, do you think that paperwork was completed and if so when - or did they intentionally violate the law by not preparing and filing release protest in advance. Just trying to follow your thoughts on the process..

Glad you found it earlier Don, I have to admit that even if I knew about it at one time it was new to me...then again that doesn't just relate to JFK documents...sigh.

Nice one Andric! This is a hot one, a smoking gun for the media cover up.

Paul, I go into that meeting in considerable detail including the research - much by Noel Twyman - that demonstrated Harvey was meeting with Roselli in SWHT. There is more beyond his work that confirmed it as well. As far as 1963 is concerned, Harvey had taken the Exec Action program that was conceptualized by Helms and then placed it under ZR RIFLE, applying it to Castro when he was assigned to Mongoose - which is when he recontacted Roselli. Looking at mission reports, its clear that the infiltrations and ongoing attempts on Castro would have been supported by JM/WAVE, compartmentalized under Morales who was operations officer for the station and most likely directly by Robertson who was running boat missions. I go into all this in more depth in NEXUS but my speculation is that the third party would have been Morales, the only individual at the station who would have to have been read in on the assassination project - remember, Mongoose utilized JM/WAVE station asset but operated independently out of headquarters in DC. As to QJ/WIN there is no need for a theory, we have the documents on that crypt including when the individual tagged under that crypt (a Belgian crime figure/drug connection) was recruited (1958 as I recall) by the Belgian station, how he was utilized later and how he was recommended to Harvey for further work to support Harvey's Staff D recruiting effort. Bill Simpich and I will be presenting on all that at the Dallas conference next month.

I don't know that it will be any help but if you have not seen it you might ultimately want to check the metadata for the entire JFK records collection - its at https://www.maryferrell.org/php/jfkdb.php

Going from memory the story was that his assistant ran into him at the airport, waiting for a commercial flight. I'd love to see his travel records but if you check into the CIA criteria those take you into the personnel files which are protected. As to the spring trip to Florida, that was related to ZR/RIFLE and at that point Roselli was it...officially it was to close out the project yet Helms had signed off funding it for the full year. My suspicion is that was the meeting, which included a third party, which launched the plot.

Today's statement from the CIA refers to 18,000 records yet to come from the CIA alone http://jfkfacts.org/cia-statement-trumps-cover-jfk-records/

I had understood the July release to be approximately 2,300 documents but now I'm beginning to question all the numbers I have heard up to this point. Have you checked the lists on the Mary Ferrell Foundation web site as to what the total anticipated release was supposed to be? On MFF Rex cites the July release as 441 documents formerly withheld in full, and over 3,000 additional documents from which redactions have been lifted. Those are all posted on the MFF site now. That makes me feel better because I was thinking the summer release was around 3,400 total... R