Robert Prudhomme

Do you see anyone lying on the pavement or concrete in front of the TSBD in the Couch film?

1. Did Eddie Piper have a Seeing Eye Dog, Bill? Seriously, he couldn't even tell if the man was a police officer or not. Seriously, this witness does not support the official story. 2. West could barely remember who came in. Another useless witness. 3. Truly told all kinds of fantastic stories in his WC testimony that are not supported by the Couch film. 4. The Darnell film does NOT show Baker running past Truly, nor does it show Truly turning as Baker passes. You obviously don't even know the Couch film from the Darnell film. The Couch film shows Baker within about ten feet of the steps but pans away before he gets closer. However, Sandy Larsen's research shows that Baker is running parallel to the steps and not toward them. 5. Molina saw Truly enter the TSBD but, even after repeated questioning, did not see Baker enter the TSBD. Neither did Frazier, who was also standing directly in front of the door. Let's see now, Molina never saw Baker, Frazier never saw Baker, Piper saw a man with Truly but didn't recognize a white helmeted police officer as a cop, and only grudgingly conceded the point under intense prompting by a lawyer, and West saw a group of police come in but would not ID a single cop with Truly. Pretty sad, Bill; you have a whole bunch of nothing.

It's a nice story but not supported by the film. I don't see Baker pushing a single person out of the way in the Couch film. The same goes for this piece of Truly's testimony: "Mr. BELIN. All right.Then what did you see happen? Mr. TRULY. I heard an explosion, which I thought was a toy cannon or a loud firecracker from west of the building. Nothing happened at this first explosion. Everything was frozen. And immediately after two more explosions, which I realized that I thought was a gun, a rifle of some kind.The President's--I saw the President's car swerve to the left and stop somewheres down in this area. It is misleading here. And that is the last I saw of his ear, because this crowd, when the third shot rang out--there was a large crowd all along this abutment here, this little wall, and there was some around us in front--they began screaming and falling to the ground. And the people in front of myself and Mr. Campbell surged back, either in terror or panic. They must have seen this thing. I became separated from Mr. Campbell. They just practically bore me back to the first step on the entrance of our building." Might have to get a photographic expert to make the final call on this one but the Couch film does not seem to support this story either.

Robert, I'm using windows 10 with google chrome (don't know it that matters, or not) and what works best for me is to "highlight" what I want to quote, right "click" while it's highlighted and a "quote this" question will pop up, and then ... away you go. -- Tommy PS This is a test. (lol) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Much better! Thank you, sir!

Thomas Sorry for not answering on the Calvery/Jacob thread. I seem to be having problems again with the Quote/Reply function as I did before my wee sabbatical. Rather than risk running into the same situation that got me removed, I think I will just refrain from posting. Oddly, it only seems to be happening on that one thread. I might start a thread just for the purpose of responding to your Calvery/Jacob thread, as it is a fascinating topic and I'm sure it will generate literally pages of responses.

At this point in time, almost anything seems possible.

We got a WORLD of problems here, Thomas. Between his DPD statement, his FBI statement and his WC testimony, Bill Shelley tells three completely different stories. I've been trying to find a group of unidentified women on the north side of Elm St. that might be Calvery, Hicks, Westbrook and Reed (and possbly Dishong) but they just aren't there. What do we do, Thomas? Frankly, I smell a rat here, and the stink points directly at the FBI. God only knows what they pulled off here but the fact remains we have at least three and possibly five women who stated they were watching the motorcade and who simply are not there. LOL And I have the feeling you are deriving great satisfaction from throwing the ol' monkey wrench into the WCR gear works again. Once again, good show!

Well, the real problem I have with Running Woman being Gloria Calvery has to do with the statements and WC testimony of Billy Lovelady and Bill Shelley. Although there is a world of difference between the statements and WC testimony, the locations Bill Shelley stated he met and spoke with Gloria Calvery is clearly stated. In his first day affidavit, he states he ran across the Elm St. extension to the corner of the Park where he met a crying Gloria Calvery, who proceeded to tell him the President had been shot. If this affidavit is to be believed, Running Woman cannot be Gloria Calvery, for the simple fact she is on the opposite side of the Elm St. extension and well past the corner of the park before "Shelley & Lovelady" get anywhere close to it. https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337377/m1/1/ In his WC testimony, Bill Shelley clearly states he and Lovelady did not leave the TSBD steps until Gloria Calvery had returned to the steps and shared the news of the assassination with them. As "S & L" are already well away from the steps before Running Woman AND Baker arrive at the steps, this also disqualifies Running Woman from being Gloria Calvery. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shelley1.htm

From the FBI statement of William H. Shelley, March 18, 1964: " Immediately following the shooting, Billy P Lovelady and I accompanied some uniformed police officers to the railroad yards just west of the building and returned through the west side door of the building about ten minutes later . I remained in the building until about 1 :30 PM when I was asked to go to the Dallas Police Dept . t o furnish an affidavit . 1 returned to the Texas School Book Depository Building about 5 PM . I did not leave the building until about 7 PM that day ." That's funny, I don't see any uniformed police officers walking with "Shelley & Lovelady" in the Darnell film. Maybe I need a photo expert to help me see them. Thomas, do you know any photo experts here?

Two independent witnesses on the 1st floor? Oh, you must mean Eddie Piper and Troy West. Let's see what Eddie Piper told the warren Commission, shall we Mr. Miller? From the Warren Commission testimony of Eddie Piper, May 14, 1964: "Mr. BALL. You told us that after the shooting you came out onto the floor? Mr. PIPER. That's right. Mr. BALL. And the first people that you saw on the floor after the shooting was who? 388 Mr. PIPER. Mr. Truly and some fellow---I really don't know who it was; like I say, it was some fellow that was with Mr. Truly.Mr. BALL. Some fellow; how was he dressed?Mr. PIPER. Oh, I don't know.Mr. BALL. Was he an officer?Mr. PIPER. Yes; I believe he was an officer.Mr. BALL. A police officer?Mr. PIPER. Yes; a police officer.Mr. BALL. Did he have a white helmet on?Mr. PIPER. No; I don't think so. I didn't pay any attention to it. I was already excited over the shooting or something when he came running into the building.Mr. BALL. And what did Truly and this--some fellow do?Mr. PIPER. Well, Mr. Truly and this fellow run up the steps. He just hollered for the elevator and I said, "I don't know where it is at," and I'm still standing over there by that table and he ran up on up the steps with this police officer--him and another fellow and I was standing there and the people began swarming out and around--different ones coming in, but it was where nobody could come out." LOL That's quite the witness you have there, Bill. Do you think Baker took his white helmet off on his way into the TSBD? Now, let me see, I'll bet your other independent witness was Troy West, right? Let's see what Mr. West had to say to the Warren Commission. From the Warren Commission testimony of Troy West, April 8, 1964: " Mr. BELIN - Who was the first person you saw on the first floor after you - while you were eating your lunch? Someone came in the building? Mr. WEST - Yes; before I got through. The officers and things were coming in the front door. Mr. BELIN - Who was the first person or persons that you saw coming through there while you were eating your lunch? Mr. WEST - Well, that was the police. Mr. BELIN - A police officer? Mr. WEST - Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN - Anyone else? Mr. WEST - I guess it was a bunch of them, I guess, FBI men, and just a crowed of them coming in there. Mr. BELIN - Did you see Roy Truly coming in at all that time? Do you know Mr. Truly? Mr. WEST - Yes, sir; that is the boss, the superintendent. Mr. BELIN - Did you see him, do you remember, while you were eating your lunch, come in the building? Mr. WEST - Yes, sir; I think he came in with the police. Mr. BELIN - Was he one of the first people in, or did other people come in ahead of him, if you remember? Mr. WEST - Really, I just don't know. Mr. BELIN - That is okay if you don't remember. That is all I want you to say if you don't remember. Did you hear anyone yelling to let the elevator loose or anything like that? Mr. WEST - I can't remember. " Hoo boy, I really hope I haven't used up all of your "independent" witnesses (what's the difference between an independent witness and a dependent witness?) because these two are beyond useless.

LOL Got a great big lake here about 300 metres from my place called the Pacific Ocean.

Good catch, Robin. I missed that one.

LOL @ using Metric being treasonous! I feel badly for any thinking person trapped in Trump's America. I say that with sincerity, and if any of you need a place to stay some day....

Just to get you started, Michael, here is a link to a company that manufactures a "frangible" hollow point bullet. Contrary to popular belief, frangible bullets are not "fragmenting" bullets. They are made from compressed metal powder and, under duress in a wound, will disintegrate back to powder and make a rather devastating cloud of metal powder that stops immediately and does NOT exit. Sound familiar? http://www.drtammo.com/DRT-Technology

Something REAL funny is going on here, all right. That bullet was far more magic than anyone realizes, and yet it was a real bullet travelling at 2200 fps (or 700 mps - are you Canadian like me?) and it stopped after penetrating the top of JFK's right lung two to three inches, and only left material in the lung that was identified as "dirt" on the x-ray.

Here is a question for you ballistic experts. The 6.5mm M91/38 Carcano short rifle propels a 162 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity of just under 2200 feet per second. In roughly 50 yards, how did the bullet slow down enough to only penetrate the flesh (intercostal muscles) of JFK's back a mere inch? What speed do you think a 162 grain round nosed bullet would be travelling if it only penetrated flesh a mere inch? If the bullet hit a rib travelling 2200 fps, wouldn't it simply smash through the rib instead of deflecting off of it, considering the rib is not a heavy bone?

I was suspicious of this claim from the very beginning, Robin. The still that was chosen to show them waking "together" was contradicted by a slow motion version of the Darnell film, showing "Lovelady" catching up to and passing "Shelley" without even the slightest nod of recognition. Of course, though, there are those who can also see "Calvery" running behind Baker and shouting to "Shelley" and "Baker" as she runs by. These are the same people who are able to see long hair, buttons and a dress on Prayer Man.

Good morning, Thomas! May I be the first to say, bloody brilliant bit of deductive logic! Yes, Gloria Jeanne Holt's high school photo does bear a strong resemblance to the woman ID'ed as Karan Hicks, and the woman ID'ed as Gloria Calvery could very well be a native American whose name might just be Stella Mae Jacob. Interestingly, Nelson is the only one of the three to not say which side of Elm she was standing on, while Jacob and Holt both stated they were standing on the south side of Elm. Just to clarify things for anyone new to this case, the group of women ID'ed on the north side of Elm as Gloria Calvery, Karan Hicks and Carol Reed also included two other women named Karen Westbrook and June Dishong. Out of these five women, only June Dishong failed to give a statement to the FBI. While Calvery, Westbrook, Hicks and Reed each list the other three women as being in their group, all four women omit June Dishong from this group, even though she is clearly seen standing with these four women in the Zapruder still. Of course, you realize it is not just Calvery that is misidentified but also the group of four (or five) she is standing in, and the entire group must be removed from the location east of the Stemmons sign.. The same goes for Stella Mae Jacob's group. Is there a group of four (or five) unidentified women on the north (or south) side of Elm St. that might be Calvery and her friends? Of course, if Jacob, Holt and Nelson are part of the group of five women on the north side of Elm (ID'ed as Calvery, Hicks, Reed, Westbrook and Dishong) why would all three of these women fail to mention they were part of a group of five women that could have included Westbrook and Dishong? So, we have seven women giving statements to the FBI and six of them clearly state which side (north or south) of Elm St. they are standing on. In each group, there is no disagreement as to which side of the street that group is on. Are we to believe six women cannot tell north from south? Where are we to find Calvery, Westbrook, Hicks, Reed and possibly Dishong now? Can anyone say now, with a straight face, there has not been evidence tampering by the FBI?

Further on Joe Molina, from his FBI statement of March 25, 1964: "At approximately 12 :30 pm the car in which President Kennedy was riding passed the building going west on Elm Street . Just after his car "disappeared from my view I heard three shots . I moved from my position on the steps in the direction of where the Presidential car was proceeding . I remained outside for a few moments and then went back inside the Texas School Depository Building . I left the building at approximately 2 :15 PM on November 22, 1963 and went home." Hard to see how Molina could have met Calvery inside the lobby if he was loitering outside the TSBD just as Calvery and Baker are supposedly rushing into the TSBD. Of course, "a few moments" can be a very elastic description of time, as Molina's WC testimony shows us: " Mr. BALL. Where--what was the source of the sound? Mr. MOLINA. Sort of like it reverberated, sort of kind of came from the west side; that was the first impression I got. Of course, the first shot was fired then there was an interval between the first and second longer than the second and third. Mr. BALL. What did you do after that? Mr. MOLINA. Well, I just stood there, everybody was running and I didn't know what to do actually, because what could I do. I was just shocked. Mr. BALL. Did anybody say anything? Mr. MOLINA. Yes. Mr. BALL. Yes, this fellow come to me---Mr. Williams said, somebody said, somebody was shooting at the President, somebody, I don't know who it was. There was some shooting, you know, and this fellow said "What can anybody gain 371 by that"; he just shook his head and I just stood there and shook my head. I didn't want to .think what was happening, you know, but I wanted to find out so I went down to where the grassy slope is, you know, and I was trying to gather pieces of conversation of the people that had been close by there and somebody said "Well, the President has been shot and I think they shot somebody else", something like that." If Joe Molina was only outside for "a few moments" following the shots, before entering the TSBD lobby, I wonder where he found the time to wander down to "where the grassy slope is"?

Ol' Gloria must have been a track star!

Hello folks! I'm back, and I have a surprise for you. As you will recall, I was trying to find out how tall Bill Shelley was in 1963, as the "Shelley" in the Darnell film is clearly an inch or two taller than the 5'8" tall "Lovelady" he was supposedly walking hand in hand with on their way to the rail yard. A while back, I sent out two letters; one to a William Boyd Shelley of Dallas, Texas who is reputedly the son of the late William Hoyt Shelley and one to a journalist from Austin, Texas who interviewed Shelley in the early 1970's. The journalist will remain anonymous for the moment although I'm sure it won't take some of you long to figure out who he is. I never received an answer from Shelley, Jr. but the journalist wrote back to me not that long ago. Here is the contents of his letter. "Dear Mr. Prudhomme Your question about Bill Shelley's height is difficult to answer. At the time I met Shelley in the early 1970's, he was perhaps 5-5 or 5-6. However, he told an employee (TSBD employee?) he was once two inches taller. According to the employee, Shelley claimed he broke his back in a car accident sometime after the assassination. Subsequent surgery supposedly left him two inches shorter. Shelley never mentioned the car accident in my presence, but the employee was a reliable source and Shelley's claim would have been plausible. Moreover, I recall Shelley was slightly misshaped as if he had indeed lost a couple of inches of height above the hips. For the sake of clarity, I met Shelley while he was working at the Scott Foresman school book warehouse in Northwest Dallas. This was the new home of the old Texas School Book Depository. As for Shelley, after reading his Warren Commission testimony years later I realized I had learned little new information about him. Perhaps my biggest takeaway from the experience was a strong suspicion the Texas School Book Depository was a storefront for domestic intelligence. After the assassination, the storefront may have been moved to the new Scott Foresman warehouse in Northwest Dallas. Hope this information sheds a little light for you. Very best of luck. Sincerely **** ***** Austin, Texas"

Good morning Mr. Miller Let's see now, where to begin? 1. "That Molinda said that Calvery came into the TSBD about 30 seconds following the shots." His name is actually Molina not "Molinda" but that is the least of your mistakes, of which this post is literally loaded. Here is an excerpt from Molina's Warren Commission testimony, and it is the only place in his testimony in which Gloria Calvery is discussed: " Mr. BALL. Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary? Mr. MOLINA. Yes. Mr. BALL. Did Gloria come up? Ms.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl. Mr. BALL. What did she say? Mr. MOLINA. She said "Oh, my God, Joe, he's been shot." They were both horrified. I said "Are you sure he was shot?" She said "Oh, Joe ,I'm sure. I saw his hair fly up and I'm sure he was shot" something to that extent." Would you be so good, Mr. Miller, as to indicate where Molina stated that Calvery entered the TSBD "about 30 seconds following the shots"? 2. "Prudhomme mentioned an interesting piece that said Gloria followed the Police Officer up the stairs." First off, my name is Bob to my friends, and Robert if you do not know me. You are certainly not a friend. Would you be so good as to post where I mentioned "an interesting piece that said Gloria followed the Police Officer up the stairs"? I'm getting a bit older and I don't seem to recall posting such a thing here. In any event, Gloria Calvery never EVER stated, in testimony or an affidavit, that she followed Baker (or The Police Officer) up the stairs of the TSBD. She never testified before the Warren Commission, and the only statement she gave about the assassination was to the FBI on March 19, 1964. 3. "That Calvery immediately ran back to the TSBD." REALLY?? Once again, Mr. Miller, would you be so good as to post evidence to support this statement? I find it rather strange that someone who knows so little about the case should be arguing his points so vociferously.

Yes, he did.

What, no one can find Shelley on the steps? I thought you guys knew everything.

"Alistair, To summarize Vickie Adams again; when Vickie and Sandra FINALLY got to the 1st floor, it was LESS THAN 30 SECONDS before she saw Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady. This can only be true if Vickie and Sandra dallied at the northern window near the stairs for several minutes (which Belin never asked about). There was never any testimony about an alleged TWO MINUTES (90 + 30 seconds), so now Shelley's and Lovelady's WC testimony make sense -- Vickie and Sandra spent from FIVE to EIGHT MINUTES looking out of the 4th floor northern window, near the stairs, gawking and gossiping about the JFK assassination. There never was any confusion between TWO MINUTES with TEN MINUTES. Belin's leading of the witness is the best explanation. Regards, --Paul Trejo" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Paul Your theory of Vickie Adams taking 8-10 minutes to make it from the 4th floor window to the 1st floor is completel derailed by this one simple excerpt from her WC testimony, which you continue to ignore, and which I will continue to remind you of, each and ever time you propose your 10 minute theory. " Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it took you. to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor? Miss ADAMS - I would say no longer than a minute at the most. "