Robert Prudhomme

I'm glad you saw it, Thomas. I was beginning to think you were just teasing me.

Now, I'm really going to go out on a limb here. Gloria Calvary was standing east of and within spitting distance of the Stemmons Freeway sign at the time of the shooting. There is photographic evidence showing her facing away from Zapruder's camera at this position. In the Zapruder film, she is wearing a dark top and what appears to be a white skirt.

There is also Ms. Calvary's own words:

“We walked to Elm Street and stopped at a point on the north side of Elm Street about halfway between Houston Street and the Triple Underpass. We were standing at this point when President John F. Kennedy was shot. The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first shot.”

So, we know where she was during the shooting, but what about after the shooting? As far as I know, there are only two stills showing a woman we are told is Gloria Calvary:

There is only one problem. Calvary is described by the FBI as a Caucasian, and the woman in the Darnell still looks distinctly Negro.

This is why I am wondering about the figure seen in front of the person we think may be Lovelady, as I can see a dark top and a white skirt. This is exactly how Lovelady received the news, according to his testimony. Shelley's testimony states the same thing. Gloria Calvary runs up to the TSBD steps and tells them the President has been shot.

Now, if Calvary only appeared in Shelley's and Lovelady's testimonies, I would write it off as fabrication on the part of these two witnesses. However, in Shelley's statement of 22/11/63, he states that Calvary came running up to the concrete island in front of the TSBD, and he went running out to see her. Somehow or other, I believe, Ms. Calvary found her way back to the entrance of the TSBD much sooner than we have been led to believe, and the woman ID'ed as Calvary down on the pergola lawn is not her at all.

What really has me baffled, though, is that, if that is her speaking to Lovelady on the steps, how did she get to the steps before Baker did?

Well, I don't know, Mark, you seem to think the rest of us are all kooks; I just wanted to know which club you belonged to, as it must be the right one, according to you.

Yes indeed Mark... we should have a museum erected to the lies created and perpetrated by the US government which shows the lies for what they were... not presented as historical truth but as a historical conspiracy.

For a guy involved in marketing, you don't seem to understand how institutions work. This is worrying to me. Despite the suspicions of a majority of Americans, there will *never* be an institution dedicated to fringe beliefs. It runs counter to human nature. There are Ripleys' Believe it or Not Museums, there are small, no-budget roadside shacks that promote crazy stuff. And the circus sideshow will always have the Bearded Lady.

I believe there is a fundamental piece missing in your world view. It's like how crazy Tea Partiers have been trying unsuccessfully to up-end Obama's presidency for years now without even a hint of success.

Wanna know why they fail so painfully?

Because what they believe isn't true.

Isn't that sad? Their entire worldview is based on lie after lie. And they can't understand WHY nobody will do what they want. And they will keep on creating their toxic fiction, and they will keep on failing. Because their worldview has atrophied into a beady-eyed conspiracy orgy.

Same with some JFK CTs. The stuff they believe is SO bizarre, so wacky, so obviously untrue that they have turned themselves into modern-day Court Jesters.

And they can't figure out why a Museum wouldn't want to house their theories.

It's like the people who still think Lincoln was killed by a Lone Nut and Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin and 911 weren't created historical events designed to serve a purpose that had nothing to do with the "historical fiction" taught to school children.

History is written by the winners. Always has been, always will be. Which historical event went down the way you read about it in school? Name one.

I take issue with a Museum like that for just that reason.. it teaches children and bewildered adults that Oswald killed JFK and it was not the result of a massive Military, Industrial, Congressional cover-up.

Prove it. You haven't yet, or else you would have won a Pulitzer. You *think* you know what happened, and this fuels your anger toward government institutions, newspapers, media conglomerates, etc. etc.

But you don't really know what happened. You're guessing, and you change your guess all the time.

That the evidence which could not and would not be allowed a moment of time in a court of law is allowed to be used to sway the opinions of every day people since they are presented as if they are facts which have been corroborated and authenticated...

Do you really believe that a Museum's purpose is to sway opinions? That's weird.

All we need now is the James Earl Ray did it Mesuem along side the Sirhan Sirhan shot him behind the ear from 5 feet away Museum... y'know, just so we can teach the kids the REAL history.

The JFK Museum memorializes an event that took place recently enough so that public interest is still high. More than anything, it captures the sadness and shock of the event itself.

Have you even visited it?

So, Mark, which particular brand of JFK conspiracy theory do you subscribe to?

I received this PM from Gary Mack yesterday:

Excellent enhancements by Mick Purdy! If only I had a fraction of the talents some of these folk possess.

P.S.

Thomas Graves, the photos posted by Bart Kamp in Post #159 very clearly display what I was trying to point out in the thread about Baker.

This forum has become the new DVP propaganda site. Its days are numbered if this trend continues.

This is what Robert is referring to Thomas, a man facing the camera I believe, so not climbing the steps with the others. Lovelady is still a possibility. Wasn't a coke bottle spotted here in one of the later photos? Perhaps then, he's straightening up after reaching down to grab it or just as Robert suggests maybe asking someone if everything's okay?

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Thanks for posting that, Clive. Looking closely, you can see there is someone with a dark top and what appears to be a light coloured skirt directly facing this man and, perhaps, one step down. It is also possible this person is telling something to the person on the upper step.

Hi all, finally got the courage to join after lurking for months.

Regarding Truly, do you think this is a good enough candidate?

He's in the right place to block the cop if he just casually walked back to get some lunch, after putting his hat back on of course. I mean it seems to be the same route.

Image1.jpgImage2.jpg

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Also, there is one reference that I found right at the end of Robert Jackson's testimony:

Representative Ford - After the third shot and as the car hesitated, did you see any law enforcement officials move in any concentrated or concerted direction?

Mr. JACKSON - I saw at least one, there may have been more, run up the School Depository steps, toward the door. That is one of the things I saw in this confusion.

Representative Ford - Was this separate from the policeman on the motorcycle?

Mr. JACKSON - Yes, sir. Yes. I should have said that a while ago. There was a policeman who moved toward the door of the Depository. But to the best of my knowledge there was no concentrated movement toward any one spot. It looked like general confusion to me, and of course...

Nothing in this regard from either Couch or Dillard but perhaps they just needed the right question.

That's one of the things I wanted to put to you Robert, how could this cop bump physically into Truly as the film shows, if he wasn't heading for the entrance, unless perhaps he changed his mind at the last second?

Also regarding the bike's placement. Isn't it possible that this cop only learnt something was wrong just before this point and may have kept on going if he hadn't seen the commotion in the motorcade on Elm? That's what I'm beginning to believe myself. I mean people talk about the physical evidence in this case being the best and if you need some supporting the idea that this cop did not look straight at the TSBD before he hit Elm you've found it.

Hi Clive

That very well could be Truly standing behind the group of women. He did mention, in his testimony, that he was having difficulty seeing over the crowd in front of him.

That is a very interesting thing Jackson said in his statement, and a little hard to decipher. The best I get from it is he saw a policeman run up the steps, but this was not the motorcycle policeman. The second last sentence puzzles me greatly; " There was a policeman who moved toward the door of the Depository." Is he referring to Baker or another police officer?

Regarding the motorcycle, the place he chose to park was the first location adjacent to a sidewalk and near the TSBD that he didn't have to pass through onlookers to get to. Remember, the crowd was out in the street on the Elm St. extension and right on across Houston St.

I have never been able to see this "bulging out" of the coat you people speak of.

Seriously??

If the suit jacket bulged out from debris striking the inside of it, how would this make the lapel flip out even further? I don't see any possible connection.

Tom, do you know which side of the TSBD steps is the west side?

Hate to say it but, that looks like Lovelady on the steps, west side, leaning over to hear what someone is telling him; right where he testified he was for 3-4 minutes following the shots.

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I believe Pauline Sanders was standing on the TSBD steps. Not sure what she was wearing.

I don't quite follow your line of thinking here, Bart, or what this has to do with Gloria Calvary. Victoria Adams left the rear of the TSBD, spent an undetermined amount of time at the rail yard, stopped to listen to radio transmissions on Baker's motorcycle radio and only then returned to the front entrance of the TSBD, where she encountered Molina. Had Molina just returned from the "grassy slope" area or was he about to go there? Had he already spoken to Gloria Calvary, or was she about to return to the TSBD? Did Gloria Calvary go directly back to her work place, or did she linger in the lobby for an undetermined amount of time? Make careful note of the fact that Molina does not say he went into the lobby before going down to the "grassy slope" and we can only assume he entered the lobby after returning from the "grassy slope".

Something that all of us should consider is that 1) Gloria Calvary may have been misidentified at the location by the Stemmons Freeway sign or 2) Ms. Calvary was at the Stemmons Freeway sign, but did not linger in that area following the shooting, and made a very hasty return to the entrance to the TSBD. This would mean photos identifying her as remaining in the pergola area for several minutes are mistaken. I would like to remind everyone she was listed as being Caucasian by the FBI, and that the woman in the photo does not appear to be Caucasian.

Re: FBI report for Pauline Sanders. Do you see Ms. Sanders' signature on this report?

Yes, Joe Molina did state that. Unfortunately, Mr. Molina never told us just how long after the shooting he was standing in the lobby when Gloria Calvary came in. It must have been a fair amount of time, as this other piece of Molina's testimony tells us he did not go directly into the TSBD, following the shooting.

"Mr. MOLINA. Well, I heard the shots.

Mr. BALL. Where--what was the source of the sound?
Mr. MOLINA. Sort of like it reverberated, sort of kind of came from the west side; that was the first impression I got. Of course, the first shot was fired then there was an interval between the first and second longer than the second and third.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after that?
Mr. MOLINA. Well, I just stood there, everybody was running and I didn't know what to do actually, because what could I do. I was just shocked.
Mr. BALL. Did anybody say anything?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Yes, this fellow come to me---Mr. Williams said, somebody said, somebody was shooting at the President, somebody, I don't know who it was. There was some shooting, you know, and this fellow said "What can anybody gain

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by that"; he just shook his head and I just stood there and shook my head. I didn't want to .think what was happening, you know, but I wanted to find out so I went down to where the grassy slope is, you know, and I was trying to gather pieces of conversation of the people that had been close by there and somebody said "Well, the President has been shot and I think they shot somebody else", something like that."

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Bart

I know exactly what you are saying. Gloria Calvary cannot be at the steps, for the simple fact she witnessed the assassination way down the street by the Stemmons Freeway sign, and there is simply no way she could have made it to the stairs before Baker, right?

However, this is just the tip of the iceberg, isn't it? Everything pivots around Baker's arrival at the TSBD, yet none of the witnesses are able to synchronize themselves with that.

Both Shelley and Lovelady testify to Gloria Calvary returning to the steps with the news of the shooting. Although he alters the story greatly, Shelley also mentions Calvary in his first day statement, but in this version she is across the street at the little island, and he runs over to her. I think it safe to assume that, at some point, Calvary actually did return to the steps to share the news of the shooting.

Considering that Calvary is described as a Caucasian woman, and the Calvary woman seen in your photo does not appear to be Caucasian, is it possible she was misidentified?

Thomas

It is hard to see in this gif, and I am trying to find another gif and a still I saw that shows things better. However, if you look very closely, you can see it.

Look at PM, then go down the steps, staying on the west side of the steps. See the person in the light coloured shirt? There is a dark shape seen against his chest, which is a person standing below him. If you look VERY closely, you can see an almost white shape below this person which I believe is a skirt. Gloria Calvary? Also, you can see the person in the light coloured shirt (Lovelady?) raise his head up, as if he has been listening to the other person, and straightens up at the unusual sight of a cop running toward him.

Here is a close up of the steps.

You can see the person in front of PM has bent over to listen to the person standing in front of him. This person appears to be wearing a dark top and a liht coloured skirt; precisely what Gloria Calvary was wearing.

See if this works.

I tried to attach it but it is a very large file, and the limit seems to be 177 bytes. I'll see if I can load it onto my Photobucket account and post a link here.

Ha ha! Don't you know it's considered cruel to tease the computer illiterate?

I found the file. It's in something on my desktop called Downloads. Any idea how I can share it on here?