Robert Prudhomme
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Posts posted by Robert Prudhomme
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Actually, Vanessa, the films all show him running in the general direction of the steps but, to say he is actually "focused" on the steps is a bit of a stretch. As to his destination, he might just as easily have ran right past the steps and down Houston St. to check out something at the back corner of the TSBD. As for entering the TSBD, there is a back door to the building; several of them, actually.
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Finally, as for silly theories, the "Lone Nut" theory is the silliest of them all.
And somehow you can say that despite the fact that all of the physical evidence points directly to that conclusion --- i.e., a Lone Nut named Oswald.
Most curious.
But, you can always look forward to that big bombshell "proof" coming in October of 2017. Right?
But I'm still waiting to see the "bombshell" type documents that Jim DiEugenio insists were released by the ARRB in the '90s that Jimmy keeps claiming prove the conspiracy to kill JFK. To date, I've seen none.
Hey, Jim. I know you're lurking out there. Can you post a link at DPF to those key "bombshell" documents released through the ARRB that you love so dearly? I've been anxious to see them. Thanks.
Regards,
--DVP
Posts such as this make me believe we are going to be sorely disappointed in October 2017. Would they still be pushing this hard, if revelation of the truth was just around the corner?
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Hi Ron,
This is the part I don't understand. The US Government had the final say on the JFK assassination with the HSCA report in 1978. No action has been taken to modify its conclusions that JFK was probably killed by a conspiracy of some kind, LHO's bullets did all the damage & his helper was incompetent. Why would the Government care about anyone bad mouthing its conclusions; the matter is settled. The Government doesn't go after LN'ers arguing the HSCA is wrong & the WC Report it replaced got it right. It can be said that they wreck as much havoc with the global public as CT'ers do. So why isn't EVERONE in jail? (LOL)
Best,
BM
Be patient, it's coming.
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Yes, I agree with you, Dave. Not one single example of a 40" short rifle being substituted in an order to Klein's for a 36" carbine has ever been produced by the FBI, nor will such an example likely ever be produced.
It still bothers me, though, that Riva had EXPLICIT instructions to remove all stampings, proofs, and markings from Carcano rifles destined for the surplus market (save for "6,5 CAL" and "MADE ITALY"), yet there is not a photo of a Carcano barrel anywhere that does not show proofs, manufacture date, name of small arms factory and serial numbers.
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I have contacted Sean Murphy today and have invited him to return and contribute to this thread.
James
Excellent! I hope he graces us with his presence again. Since the last time I spoke with him, I have collected quite a few questions I would dearly love to put to him.
I have contacted Sean Murphy today and have invited him to return and contribute to this thread.
James
Excellent! I hope he graces us with his presence again. Since the last time I spoke with him, I have collected quite a few questions I would dearly love to put to him.
Hi Bob
Just in case Sean Murphy doesn't come back why don't you post your questions here and the rest of us can have a go at answering them?
I've already asked several of them in this thread, "
Who saw Baker enter the TSBD?but they did not seem to generate much interest.
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"We know that Riva removed the seriel number of all the rifles he worked on - except, says the FBI, this one batch... but they offer no proof of a single other rifle."
Hi Dave
This has always troubled me. According to the terms of the export agreement, all markings and stampings on surplus Carcano rifles were to be removed, yet I defy anyone to find a Carcano with this done to it.
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Have you ever read the thread I started about SA Robert Frazier's analysis of the Walker bullet?
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If LHO had gone to trial, I'm sure there would have been a lot more eye witnesses testifying in the case than the pitiful handful the Warren Commission chose to speak to. This, Dave, is the difference between "evidence" and "selective evidence".
Further, there would have been less of a chance for the testimonies of these witnesses to be "improved" following their testifying.
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I understand your analysis of this matter now. I must say, you make very persuasive and logical arguments, and things may very well have occurred exactly as you say they did.
One maddening thing, at least to me, anyways, about the Walker shooting is that the two investigating officers were never asked just HOW they arrived at the conclusion the bullet they found was steel jacketed.
It has long been maintained, although never verified, AFAIK, that the Walker bullet was not only steel jacketed but, 30-06 calibre as well. This combination is entirely possible, in US military ammo, but it is a little more complicated than this. Beginning in WW II, when faced with a possible copper shortage, the US military embarked on two programs; one being to make rifle and pistol cartridges out of steel instead of brass, and the other being to replace part of the copper alloy (brass) in the jackets of rifle bullets. The steel cartridge cases were not very successful, and never used by the US in combat, but the steel/brass rifle jackets are used to this day.
The copper alloy in rifle bullet jackets is a type of brass known as "gilder's metal". In a very complicated process, a thin layer of steel was bonded under extremely high pressure between two layers of gilder's metal. Discs were cut from the resulting sheet, and bullet jackets formed from these discs. Why such a complicated process was employed is something I have been unable to find out. I have been able to glean that the riflings in the barrel did not cut deeply enough into the jacket of the bullet to expose the steel layer beneath the gilder's metal layer.
The experts I have spoken to feel that such a bullet would have to be exposed to a tremendous outside force in order to separate the steel jacket layer from the gilder's metal layers to the point the steel layer would have been visible to DPD officers.
Steel bullet jackets are for more common in Europe and Asia, and do not go through such a complicated manufacturing process. The bullet is jacketed in mild steel, and a thin coating of another metal is applied externally, to prevent corrosion of the steel. If the coating was copper, the steel jacket would be visible once the jacket and bullet separated. If the coating was zinc or cupro-nickel (copper/nickel alloy), the jacket would look like steel before AND after hitting the brickwork of Walker's home.
Now, this leads us to something interesting about the 6.5mm Carcano, allegedly owned by Oswald. The following info regarding Carcano military rounds was obtained from this site:
http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/ammo/history.html
"6.5mm Carcano cartridge
Overview
The 6.5mm Carcano cartridge (6.5X52mm) is a rimless, necked smokeless powder military cartridge that was developed in Italy C.1890 as a service cartridge and was used in both world wars. It was also used as a secondary service round by Greece and Ethiopia and likely Albania and Libia as well. Cartridge cases have been made of both brass and steel, and both berdan and boxer primers have been used. It has been loaded for military use in Italy, Austria and the United States. Sporting ammo has been loaded in Sweden and the United States.The cartridge cases made in Italy have several unusual features. They use a unique primer dia of .204" ( aprox. 5mm), and there is a shoulder inside the neck of the case under the bullet to support it. The earliest cartridges, before about 1895, were headstamped in the conventional manner, but on later cartridges a deep groove is pressed into the head of the cartridge case around the primer and the headstamp appears as raised figures inside this groove. Some sources state that this was done for decorative effect, but stamping the headstamp in this way would also workharden the case and strengthen it in this critical area.
Performance of the standard ball load is a 162 grain (10.5 gram) full metal jacket, round nose bullet at aprox. 2300 fps (700 mps) muzzle velocity from the barrel of a short rifle, a carbine will give a slightly lower and a long rifle a slightly higher figure. Maximum trajectory height for a 300 yard zero would be aprox. 10".
Loads
Ball "Cartucce a pallottola" or "Cartuccia a palla ordinaria" Round nose, full metal jacket bullet with lead core, jacket materials include copper-nickle, gliding metal, copper-nickle plated steel and gilding metal plated steel.
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Could a 6.5mm Carcano have been fired at Walker, shooting one of the above Italian military bullets?
Italian military issue 6.5mm Carcano cupro-nickel coated (jacketed?) bullet on extreme left, armour piercing bullet next to it. Mistaken for steel jacketed?
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Interesting point of view, Paul.
If we discard the rifle as evidence, all we have left to tie Oswald to the Walker shooting is the word of his wife Marina.
If you believe LHO was present at the Walker shooting, but with accomplices, do you see him having a similar role in the JFK shooting?
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David,
I ask myself, why does DVP post here? I say to myself, he's not informative, and it's highly unlikely he'll change any minds here. So why does DVP post here.
Only you, David, can answer the question with certainty.
I guess you like sparring.
If I were a cynic, I'd say you like draining energy away from the core debates.
Wow. What a strange question.
What do you find strange about it?
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Well, Bob, let me turn the tables ---
Why do YOU post so much, Bob?
Using your words, "Why on earth would you even care?"
Quite simple, Dave. The WCR decided against the facts as I see them. I believe a travesty of justice has taken place, and that posters such as yourself are minions of the evil forces behind that travesty, and must be countered for the good of all humanity.
Now, seriously, why are you here?
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For that matter, Jon, why do any of the LN return, day after day, year after year, to debate with such intensity?
Because there's always a very small chance that a few "lurkers" out there who haven't been totally sucked into the abyss created by the Internet conspiracy believers. (And based on the 2013 polls, the number of CTers is dropping fairly quickly---to 59% via one of the polls--which is always good to see.)
So if I can counteract a little bit of the silly "conspiracy" talk on the Web, it's a pleasure to do so. As Jon G. Tidd accurately said above, no CTer on the Internet is ever going to be swayed by one single thing ANY LNer says, or will ever say. (Has that EVER happened since the Internet was invented? If it has, I've yet to encounter it.) But since freedom of speech and expression and opinion hasn't been outlawed in the USA (to my knowledge), I can try to get the "Oswald was guilty" message out there....because I think Oswald was guilty (and was a lone assassin).
Dave
Don't you think that what you are doing is just a bit insane? Seriously, even if we convince some "innocent" on one of our arguments, so what? Why on earth would you even care?
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For that matter, Jon, why do any of the LN return, day after day, year after year, to debate with such intensity? For Pete's sake, the WC decided in their favour. Why not just laugh at us and simply walk away?
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SA Robert A. Frazier of the FBI, the FBI's resident firearms expert, testified to the Warren Commission about his investigation into the Walker shooting and, specifically, CE 573 or the "Walker" bullet. Here is a short excerpt from that testimony:
"MR. EISENBERG -- "Can you think of any reason why someone might have
called this a steel-jacketed bullet?"
MR. FRAZIER -- "No, sir; except that some individuals commonly refer
to rifle bullets as steel-jacketed bullets, when they actually in fact
just have a copper-alloy jacket." ...."Mr. Frazier either knows only a fraction of what is credited to him on the topic of ammunition, or he is deliberately misleading the WC.
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I have contacted Sean Murphy today and have invited him to return and contribute to this thread.
James
Excellent! I hope he graces us with his presence again. Since the last time I spoke with him, I have collected quite a few questions I would dearly love to put to him.
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"Nevertheless, Robert, nobody on this side insisted that OSWALD used his own rifle when he shot at Edwin Walker on 10 April 1963."
On reflection, I find this an odd thing for you to state, Paul. What precisely do you mean by "this side"? If the particular side you are referring to includes the Warren Commission, they most certainly did claim that Oswald shot at Walker with a 6.5mm Carcano rifle, and the bullet they present in evidence is most certainly jacketed in a copper coloured alloy. The whole basis of the WC's case is that the bullet recovered from Edwin Walker's home was a bullet made by the Western Cartridge Co. and all the bullets made by this company to shoot in the 6.5mm Carcano were jacketed in a copper coloured alloy known as "gilder's metal".
"(1) Bullet fragments recovered from Walker's home were too mutilated for recognition."
If you are referring to CE 573, this statement is not true.
The bullet presented by the FBI as the "Walker bullet" or CE 573 is still quite recognizeable as a bullet, and there is no doubt it is jacketed in a copper coloured copper alloy.
"(2) Walker's objection that the bullet was "swapped" was a bogus complaint against HSCA lead, Robert Blakey, who simply, for purposes of illustration, held up a pristine bullet for the Media cameras in 1978 when speaking about the Walker bullet. Walker exploded and wrote to Blakey, to Congressmen, to the Attorney General, demanding that "his" bullet never be "swapped" for any other bullet. Big deal.
What evidence are you referring to, Robert?"
The investigating officers clearly state the bullet they saw was steel jacketed. As the bullet Walker handled, following the shooting, was jacketed in steel and, according to Walker, far more mutilated than CE 573, it is understandable that Walker would believe a swap had taken place.
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This is assuming, of course, Paul, that LHO actually owned a rifle in the first place.
Why do you think the evidence of a steel jacketed bullet would be swapped out for a copper alloy jacketed bullet?
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The one inescapable piece of evidence in the Walker shooting that points away from LHO shooting at Walker with a 6.5mm Carcano rifle is the police report that states a steel jacketed bullet was found at the scene.
No amount of disinformation from the Dark Side can completely remove this rather troublesome little item of evidence.
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What is the point? Your group has been in denial for 51 years now.
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Maybe Mark,
because it was May 8th and they had just over a month to complete the various chapters of the report.
Great find Chris, but it is really depressing that although they have the west window pointed out to them, they show not the least bit of interest.
Seems to have been a lot of selective evidence gathering taking place.
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I have the strangest feeling that Mr. Lifton is reluctant to discuss what he means when he says the Walker shooting was "contrived".
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Denial is not just a river in Africa.
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The one outstanding indication of alteration, at least in my eyes anyways, is just after the head shot, beginning roughly at z319. Greer has apparently made a hard brake application (actually, those early 60's Fords had very sensitive power brakes, and even a light application could lock the wheels up) and he and Kellerman can be seen being thrown violently forward by the sudden deceleration. Nellie and John, just behind the SS agents, can also be seen being thrown forward, at the same time.
However, quite miraculously, Jackie and JFK seem completely unaffected by this textbook display of inertia, and remain unmoved on the rear seat as if no brake application had been made. This is quite astounding, when one considers Jackie appears to be perched on the very edge of the seat while her husband is, for all intents of purpose, quite dead, and totally unable to counter external forces, such as a limo in sudden deceleration.
Six Things Made To Order For Lee Harvey Oswald
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Hi Paul
Who do you believe was behind the assassination of JFK?