Terry Mauro

My family have a long tradition of fighting for freedom. My grandfather was killed in France in 1916. My father was badly wounded in the Second World War fighting for freedom. My mother enduring several years of constant bombardment from the skies while working in an armaments factory during the war. What were they fighting for? The freedom to vote. The freedom to organize. The freedom to express their opinions. What was the point of fighting against other countries for these freedoms if you allow them to be taken away by your own government. The CIA may or may not be reading my emails sent to friends in America. What I do know is that they have no right to do so? It will not stop me saying what I think about the world. However, my fear is that it might frighten some individuals to do as they think our masters want us to think. The worse form of censorship is always self-censorship. That is what this issue is really about. ******************************************************** "However, my fear is that it might frighten some individuals to do as they think our masters want us to think. The worse form of censorship is always self-censorship. That is what this issue is really about." And, while I'm in total agreement with you, I'm probably one of the most out-spoken, rage-invecting, devil-may-care perpetrators of these exact same crimes(?). What, with my murderous schemes that leave my brother speechless on his cellphone at least once every Saturday during our transcontinental phone chats. Yet so far, the only repercussions I've experienced are from my Norton corrupting my Outlook Express mail server. This will not curtail the verbal abuse I'll inevitably hurl at the Bush fascists, and their NSA rabid pit bulls. I'll continue to be as vocal about their moronic ineptitude as always, especially to my senators and representatives. As far as frightening some individuals? If they've got that much to lose then maybe they should remain as ostriches with their heads in the sand, because they'll never be of any use to the cause. Let's face it, there are too many creature comforts afforded to those who've never known anything else. And, I seriously doubt they'll ever be capable of risking the familiar for what they'll certainly perceive to be the unknown. They're the ones who'll always run and cower the minute they hear the barbarians are at the gates. What we need are true leaders who'll stand by their right to voice their opinions, and possibly with our own sets of verbal billy clubs and tear gas. Especially, if we ever expect to incite a peaceful riot again, at least during this hostile regime. But, I'm not counting on anyone but myself when the going really gets rough. Just MHO.

************************************************************************** "I submit it is as inappropriate to label someone a Kennedy killer without evidence as it was to brand someone as a Communist in the fifties (absent evidence the person was indeed a Communist)." But T.G., it's so much fun calling you a fascist! "But my main purpose in this post is to congratulate John for his work in developing the Forum for it is its development that has attracted these diverse contributors." Yes, I agree. Without John and Andy, this database along with its various study venues, would be non-existent, until someone else might have hit upon the idea. As I became increasingly familiar with the internet and the assassination forums over the last five or so years, I had been wondering about, as well as suggesting, this very same idea. What was needed was a compilation database strictly dedicated to the many aspects associated with the assassination(s). John and Andy had already built upon a premise by creating their Distance-Learning database with the inclusion of educators and teachers. They then went a step further to expand upon it by creating a globally political forum encompassing the history, philosophy, and mechanics associated with governmental processes, worldwide. This serves well as a dual learning process from both the educational and social standpoint. You have global access to teachers, professors, and doctors everywhere, as well as the opportunity to interact on a personal level. This is tantamount to being able to understand the different and diversified cultures throughout the planet. It gives everyone a chance to interact and share their views, and perhaps learn to not only tolerate, but accept one another's opinions as well as understand how they were formed. This is how I am able to learn from T.G.'s fascist views, though not necessarily accept them. But, at least I can respect his right to express his views, which he does, in a logical and eloquent, if not gracious manner. The debates crackle like live-wires around here, and the mental stimulation is priceless. Way to go, guys. I've got to get back to work.

***************************************************************************** "Bush warned that, "The transition to freedom will present many challenges to the Cuban people and to America ", and promised that, "In all that lies ahead, the Cuban people have a constant friend in the United States of America . We are confident that no matter what the dictator intends or plans, Cuba sera pronto libre"." In other words, this "transition to freedom" is really meant for the dispossessed Cuban elitist plantation owners. Therefore, the challenges to the Cuban people will commence when these former slave-owners are once again allowed to lay claim to their plantations, and prevail over their former servants and subjects. Servants, whom I'm sure they'd prefer to believe, will be welcoming back their former masters, [and the prospect of living the rest of their lives in their prior indentured capacity] with open arms. "Although the Bush administration claims that, "There is a growing international consensus on the nature of the Castro regime and the need for fundamental political and economic change on the island." for thirteen straight years, the UN General Assembly has voted to condemn the US embargo against Cuba . On October 28, 2004 , the UN General Assembly voted 179 to 4 with one abstention on a resolution condemning the US economic embargo of Cuba . During these thirteen years, the margin in favor of Cuba has steadily increased. This year, only the United States, Israel, Palau, and the Marshall Islands voted against a condemnation of the embargo. Is this the "coalition of the willing" who supports US policies for "regime change" in Cuba ? Just as in the current military war for "regime change" in Iraq , the US government stands alone in its economic war against Cuba , supported only by a weak coalition of "allies" who cannot refuse." I guess that shows you where the U.S.'s money is currently being laundered, off-shore. And, anyone with half a brain knows that NAFTA, aka Laissez Faire, aka "Free" Trade, is only profitable for the CEO's and corporate heads. "Free" Trade means "free" or "pretty-damned-close-to-free" labor to the corporate owners and their shareholders. They're the only ones who end up profiteering from being able to out-source U.S. jobs to Third World country sweatshops and slave-labor camps. Countries where they can get away with paying people less than a dollar an hour. And, if you think the lower cost of living in these countries warrants the lower pay scale, you're in denial, and you're dreaming! You can point to China [AFTA] as an example of prosperity, but point to the outlying countryside where the so-called "employees" really reside, not to the big cities where the corporate headquarters take care of upper management. Go to where their sweatshop "coolies" still live on dirt floors. Same thing with South America. NAFTA, CAFTA, aka "right to work" which means, "You have the right to be terminated without being given a reason, nor recourse. You may also terminate your employment without giving notice [that must look real swell on a resume]." It also means lack of medical benefits, below minimum wage, no OSHA, no security. But, the fascists will tell you, "It's the American Way! Be your own entrepeneurial promoter!" Sorry folks, that may have been la-dee-dah for the Manifest Destiny crowd of the late 1800's. But, don't you think this country should have evolved to a much higher standard after 230 years? At least, to a position where all of its citizens, even those purposely disenfranchized blacks, reds, browns, yellows, and even the po' white trash, might all be living a more egalitarian existence? Instead, we're being faced with an ever-widening gap of economic disparity today that should have been dealt with and irradicated in the last century. The only promise Bush and his neocons have for Cuba is the continued exploitation of its laboring class of people. Especially, once another Batista-like puppet regime finally gets the go-ahead to be set in place for Cuba's former property and plantation owners.

********************************************************** T.G., this is most appreciated. You've made this easily accessible for everyone. Good job. Thanks, Ter

Dear Mr. Hemming, Sorry to see your old friend hitting on hard times. Not to change the subject, [it's really the same subject]. Rumsfeld muses, "What electrode would Jesus use?" Some of us are concerned about how one human treats another. Some of us are also concerned about justice - to know the why, and the "WHO." Pinochet is a monster and an international criminal. Those who helped him rise to power should IMHO, be tried with him. You know what the D.A. says about criminals, "If you can't get them for one crime, you can get them for another." I'm sure you get my drift. http://www.woi-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4297919&nav=1LFX http://www.trentu.ca/~mneumann/pinochet.html Your truly, Hanoi Jane

**************************************************************** Deleted by T. Mauro due to some unsettling news I learned today regarding the copying and pasting from periodicals and newspaper articles, in full, without getting permission from the author or the editor of said periodical or newspaper. Sorry.

Ron, I think you hit the nail on the head, the comparison to the media dynamic that is in play regarding Pres. Bush, and similarities to the Nixon Era post June 72, is beyond reproach, I believe. Ironically if you read the stroy that is on the Internet today about the 'White Houses List of Accomplishments' for the year 2005, is so 'doublespeak and Orwellian in its overtones that the same mentality that brought down the Nixon White House, is what I would say 'front and center' this Christmas 2005. I would also sadly note, that if the same shennanigans that have taken place since Inauguration Day in America were taking place in 1973, the President would have left office long ago. That in itself is a fact that should make everyone aware of just how far the dynamics of Operation Mockingbird and the American peoples apathy have taken us. ***************************************************** From Truthout.org: Print This Story E-mail This Story What do you think? The t r u t h o u t Town Meeting is in progress. Join the debate! Go to Original NSA, the Agency That Could Be Big Brother By James Bamford The New York Times Sunday 25 December 2005 Washington - Deep in a remote, fog-layered hollow near Sugar Grove, W.Va., hidden by fortress-like mountains, sits the country's largest eavesdropping bug. Located in a "radio quiet" zone, the station's large parabolic dishes secretly and silently sweep in millions of private telephone calls and e-mail messages an hour. Run by the ultrasecret National Security Agency, the listening post intercepts all international communications entering the eastern United States. Another NSA listening post, in Yakima,Wash., eavesdrops on the western half of the country. A hundred miles or so north of Sugar Grove, in Washington, the NSA has suddenly taken center stage in a political firestorm. The controversy over whether the president broke the law when he secretly ordered the NSA to bypass a special court and conduct warrantless eavesdropping on American citizens has even provoked some Democrats to call for his impeachment. According to John E. McLaughlin, who as the deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency in the fall of 2001 was among the first briefed on the program, this eavesdropping was the most secret operation in the entire intelligence network, complete with its own code word - which itself is secret. Jokingly referred to as "No Such Agency," the NSA was created in absolute secrecy in 1952 by President Harry S. Truman. Today, it is the largest intelligence agency. It is also the most important, providing far more insight on foreign countries than the CIA and other spy organizations. But the agency is still struggling to adjust to the war on terror, in which its job is not to monitor states, but individuals or small cells hidden all over the world. To accomplish this, the NSA has developed ever more sophisticated technology that mines vast amounts of data. But this technology may be of limited use abroad. And at home, it increases pressure on the agency to bypass civil liberties and skirt formal legal channels of criminal investigation. Originally created to spy on foreign adversaries, the NSA was never supposed to be turned inward. Thirty years ago, Senator Frank Church, the Idaho Democrat who was then chairman of the select committee on intelligence, investigated the agency and came away stunned. "That capability at any time could be turned around on the American people," he said in 1975, "and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn't matter. There would be no place to hide." He added that if a dictator ever took over, the NSA "could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back." At the time, the agency had the ability to listen to only what people said over the telephone or wrote in an occasional telegram; they had no access to private letters. But today, with people expressing their innermost thoughts in e-mail messages, exposing their medical and financial records to the Internet, and chatting constantly on cellphones, the agency virtually has the ability to get inside a person's mind. The NSA's original target had been the Communist bloc. The agency wrapped the Soviet Union and its satellite nations in an electronic cocoon. Anytime an aircraft, ship or military unit moved, the NSA would know. And from 22,300 miles in orbit, satellites with super-thin, football-field-sized antennas eavesdropped on Soviet communications and weapons signals. Today, instead of eavesdropping on an enormous country that was always chattering and never moved, the NSA is trying to find small numbers of individuals who operate in closed cells, seldom communicate electronically (and when they do, use untraceable calling cards or disposable cellphones) and are constantly traveling from country to country. During the cold war, the agency could depend on a constant flow of American-born Russian linguists from the many universities around the country with Soviet studies programs. Now the government is forced to search ethnic communities to find people who can speak Dari, Urdu or Lingala - and also pass a security clearance that frowns on people with relatives in their, or their parents', former countries. According to an interview last year with Gen. Michael V. Hayden, then the NSA's director, intercepting calls during the war on terrorism has become a much more complex endeavor. On Sept. 10, 2001, for example, the NSA intercepted two messages. The first warned, "The match begins tomorrow," and the second said, "Tomorrow is zero hour." But even though they came from suspected al Qaeda locations in Afghanistan, the messages were never translated until after the attack on Sept. 11, and not distributed until Sept. 12. What made the intercepts particularly difficult, General Hayden said, was that they were not "targeted" but intercepted randomly from Afghan pay phones. This makes identification of the caller extremely difficult and slow. "Know how many international calls are made out of Afghanistan on a given day? Thousands." General Hayden said. Still, the NSA doesn't have to go to the courts to use its electronic monitoring to snare al Qaeda members in Afghanistan. For the agency to snoop domestically on American citizens suspected of having terrorist ties, it first must to go to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, or FISA, make a showing of probable cause that the target is linked to a terrorist group, and obtain a warrant. The court rarely turns the government down. Since it was established in 1978, the court has granted about 19,000 warrants; it has only rejected five. And even in those cases the government has the right to appeal to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review, which in 27 years has only heard one case. And should the appeals court also reject the warrant request, the government could then appeal immediately to a closed session of the Supreme Court. Before the Sept. 11 attacks, the NSA normally eavesdropped on a small number of American citizens or resident aliens, often a dozen or less, while the FBI, whose low-tech wiretapping was far less intrusive, requested most of the warrants from FISA. Despite the low odds of having a request turned down, President Bush established a secret program in which the NSA would bypass the FISA court and begin eavesdropping without warrant on Americans. This decision seems to have been based on a new concept of monitoring by the agency, a way, according to the administration, to effectively handle all the data and new information. At the time, the buzzword in national security circles was data mining: digging deep into piles of information to come up with some pattern or clue to what might happen next. Rather than monitoring a dozen or so people for months at a time, as had been the practice, the decision was made to begin secretly eavesdropping on hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people for just a few days or a week at a time in order to determine who posed potential threats. Those deemed innocent would quickly be eliminated from the watch list, while those thought suspicious would be submitted to the FISA court for a warrant. In essence, NSA seemed to be on a classic fishing expedition, precisely the type of abuse the FISA court was put in place to stop.At a news conference, President Bush himself seemed to acknowledge this new tactic. "FISA is for long-term monitoring," he said. "There's a difference between detecting so we can prevent, and monitoring." This eavesdropping is not the Bush administration's only attempt to expand the boundaries of what is legally permissible. In 2002, it was revealed that the Pentagon had launched Total Information Awareness, a data mining program led by John Poindexter, a retired rear admiral who had served as national security adviser under Ronald Reagan and helped devise the plan to sell arms to Iran and illegally divert the proceeds to rebels in Nicaragua. Total Information Awareness, known as TIA, was intended to search through vast data bases, promising to "increase the information coverage by an order-of-magnitude." According to a 2002 article in The New York Times, the program "would permit intelligence analysts and law enforcement officials to mount a vast dragnet through electronic transaction data ranging from credit card information to veterinary records, in the United States and internationally, to hunt for terrorists." After press reports, the Pentagon shut it down, and Mr. Poindexter eventually left the government. But according to a 2004 General Accounting Office report, the Bush administration and the Pentagon continued to rely heavily on data-mining techniques. "Our survey of 128 federal departments and agencies on their use of data mining," the report said, "shows that 52 agencies are using or are planning to use data mining. These departments and agencies reported 199 data-mining efforts, of which 68 are planned and 131 are operational." Of these uses, the report continued, "the Department of Defense reported the largest number of efforts." The administration says it needs this technology to effectively combat terrorism. But the effect on privacy has worried a number of politicians. After he was briefed on President Bush's secret operation in 2003, Senator Jay Rockefeller, the Democratic vice chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, sent a letter to Vice President Dick Cheney. "As I reflected on the meeting today and the future we face," he wrote, "John Poindexter's TIA project sprung to mind, exacerbating my concern regarding the direction the administration is moving with regard to security, technology, and surveillance." Senator Rockefeller sounds a lot like Senator Frank Church. "I don't want to see this country ever go across the bridge," Senator Church said. "I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James Bamford is the author of Puzzle Palace and Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency. ------- Jump to today's TO Features: Today's TO Features t r u t h o u t Mr. Fitzgerald Calling -------------- John Dear | "Peace on Earth" Means "No More War" Rebecca Solnit | 2005: Bad Year for Goliath Blues in the Green Zone on Christmas Mourners Remember 216,000 Tsunami Victims Matt Frei | Bush Bubble Burst by Troubled 2005 Some Fear Eavesdropping Could Undermine Work of Spy Agency US Missteps Leave Iraqis in the Dark David Sirota | Will the Dems Step Up in the New Year? James Bamford | NSA, the Agency That Could Be Big Brother US Bombing of Iraq Intensifies -------------- t r u t h o u t Town Meeting t r u t h o u t Home (In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. t r u t h o u t has no affiliation whatsoever with the originator of this article nor is t r u t h o u t endorsed or sponsored by the originator.) "Go to Original" links are provided as a convenience to our readers and allow for verification of authenticity. However, as originating pages are often updated by their originating host sites, the versions posted on TO may not match the versions our readers view when clicking the "Go to Original" links. Print This Story E-mail This Story | t r u t h o u t | town meeting | issues | environment | labor | women | health | voter rights | multimedia | donate | contact | subscribe |

******************************************************************** The same was true of all those involved in the illegal covert operations in the 1960s and 70s. The only way back for Shackley (he resigned from the CIA in 1979) was for the removal of Carter. In 1980 he had regular meetings with George Bush where he advised him of his election strategy. Bush did not get the nomination but when he became Reagan’s vice presidential candidate, Shackley continued to advise him. Shackley told Bush that Carter was attempting to negotiate a deal with Iran to get the American hostages released. This was disastrous news for the Reagan/Bush campaign. If Carter got the hostages out before the election, the public perception of the man might change and he might be elected for a second-term. Reagan’s aides promised that they would get a better deal if they waited until Carter was defeated. On 22nd September, 1980, Iraq invaded Iran. The Iranian government was now in desperate need of spare parts and equipment for its armed forces. Carter now proposed that the US would be willing to hand over supplies in return for the hostages. Once again, the CIA leaked this information to Reagan/Bush. Shackley now suggested a strategy that would make it impossible to do a deal. One way was to leak the story to the press. On 17th October, The Washington Post reported rumours of a “secret deal that would see the hostages released in exchange for the American made military spare parts Iran needs to continue its fight against Iraq”. This publicity had made it impossible for Carter to do a deal. Reagan on the other hand, had promised the Iranian government that he would arrange for them to get all the arms they needed in exchange for the hostages. According to Mansur Rafizadeh, the former U.S. station chief of SAVAK, the Iranian secret police, CIA agents had persuaded Khomeini not to release the American hostages until Reagan was sworn in. In fact, they were released twenty minutes after his inaugural address. The actions of Reagan and the CIA [caused the hostages] to spent[d] at least an extra 76 days of imprisonment. One of these hostages, Cynthia Dwyer, was kept back until the Iranian negotiators got further assurances on the deal. The arms the Iranians had demanded were delivered via Israel. Shackley was horrified when he discovered that Buckley had been captured. Buckley was a member of Shackley’s Secret Team that had been involved with Edwin Wilson, Thomas Clines, Carl E. Jenkins, Raphael Quintero, Felix Rodriguez and Luis Posada, in the secret “assassination” program. Casey asked Shackley for help in obtaining Buckley’s freedom. Shackley had good reason to want to get Buckley out of Iranian hands. However, he was unhappy about not being rewarded for his help getting Reagan elected in 1980. He had expected to be appointed director of the CIA. That job instead went to Casey, the key figure in the “arms for hostages” negotiations. How was Shackley to be rewarded? What we know is that just three weeks after Buckley’s disappearance, President Reagan signed the National Security Decision Directive 138. This directive was drafted by Oliver North and outlined plans on how to get the American hostages released from Iran and to “neutralize” terrorist threats from countries such as Nicaragua. This new secret counterterrorist task force was to be headed by Shackley’s old friend, General Richard Secord. This was the basis of the Iran-Contra deal. Reagan could not afford to replace Casey with Shackley as director of the CIA. However, there were other ways of rewarding Shackley for his covert actions on behalf of Reagan in Iran. Talks had already started about exchanging American hostages for arms. On 30th August, 1985, Israel shipped 100 TOW missiles to Iran. On 14th September they received another 408 missiles from Israel. The Israelis made a profit of $3 million on the deal. Why should this money go to the Israelis? It would be a better idea to give this business to Shackley and his mates. And, this is how our U.S. taxpayers' dollars are put to work. It appears to me, that the fascists who have been running this country behind the backs of whatever political party happens to be in office, regardless of these poor excuses for attempts at demonstrating "the democratic-process-at-work" known as elections, hold little, if any, regard whatsoever, for the citizenry of this country. When they're allowed to proliferate, like vermin, throughout the system, to work it for their sole privateering, pirateering, profiteering benefit, WHEN, may I ask, are the people of this country going to come to terms with the fact that they've been sold down the proverbial river or, to quote a line from the movie, BLAZING SADDLES, "are we just jerking off?" Thanks John, for putting it in black and white. But, how do we make them want to read about it, let alone grasp the significance?

Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, A Joyous Rammadan, A Brotherly Kwanzai, A Wondrous Tet, and A Happy New Year, to each and every one of you. Greetings from Sunny Southern California. Love, Ter http://www.savwel.com/christmas/cgreet.html

**************************************************** "I'd like to keep us on the road to answer those questions." That's an excellent idea and I couldn't agree with you more. But, it seems as if this thread has been hi-jacked. "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Bill Kelly" Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to Bill Kelly, David Healy, and Richard J. Smith, as well. You guys are the greatest. Ter

Ref: Plumlee ".... DEA FILES INFORMATION: DEAfiles.pdf DEA Mexico OPS: These documents make reference to "Guatemalan Guerrillas" training at a ranch owned by Drug Lord CARO- Quintero in Vera Crus, Mexico. It was reported at the time this was a CIA training site where weapons were exchanged for drugs in support of the Contra effort in Nicaragua and Costa Rico. DEA Agent Enrique Camarena (KIKI) and his pilot found out about this operation known as "The CIA Thing" and were killed because of this knowledge. Plumlee and other American undercover pilots had flown into this ranch many times as reported in various sections within these documents and other news media leaks in Mexico and America. The operation was known as "AMSOG" and, as reported to Senator Gary Hart and his Senate investigators in early 1983, was an "illegal" smuggling operation through Mexico into the United States, supported by the US Military, Panama Southern Command. Ref: DEA Secret Class 2 documents investigators Susand Baldwin and Hector Berelliz DEA. Documents can be found at toshplumlee.info in PDF foremat. *********************************************************************** "It was reported at the time this was a CIA training site where weapons were exchanged for drugs in support of the Contra effort in Nicaragua and Costa Rica." "...and Costa Rica." Could this have been the landing strip belonging to Senator John Hull, by any chance? CHRONOLOGY OF JOHN HULL'S ALLEGED CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES June 7, 1991 1982-1986 John Hull's ranch in Northern Costa Rica serves as the main supply base for the contras on the Southern Front of Nicaragua. [Newsday, 5/10/87] October 1984 Hull receives $10,000 a month from the Reagan-Bush Administration's National Security Council… September 1984 and deposits the money into a Miami bank account. [senate Foreign Relations subcommittee report, "Private Assistance' and the Contras: A Staff Report." 10/14/86] [Common Cause, Sept/Oct. 1985] [Covert Action Bulletin, Winter 86] [New York Daily News, 1/8/87] 1984 Hull takes out a $375,000 loan from the Overseas Private Investment Corporation for a supposed manufacturing project. Hull deposits the money into his private account in Indiana and the project is never started. He later defaults on the loan. [senate Foreign Relations narcotics and terrorism subcommittee: ``Drugs, Law Enforcement, and Foreign Policy,'' a report on investigation of contra drug trafficking, April 1989] April 9, 1984 Plane piloted by a Nicaraguan crashes while taking off from the airstrip on Hull's ranch, purportedly because it was overloaded with military supplies. [Tico Times, 9/28/84] April 25, 1984 Hull's ranch is raided and he is detained by security officers investigating allegations of Southern Front contra activities in Costa Rica. [Tico Times 4/27/84] April 1984 Pastora is given a 30-day deadline to unify his forces with the F.D.N. in the North. [Out of Control, Leslie Cockburn] May 30, 1984 A bomb explodes in La Penca, Nicaragua, killing three journalists--including U.S. citizen Linda Frazier--and injuring many others. The bomb's apparent target, moderate contra leader Eden Pastora, is injured but survives. One of the reporters wounded in the bombing is ABC cameraman Tony Avirgan. [Convergence, Spring 1987] May 30, 1984 Hull, Robert Owen, C.I.A. station chief Phil Holtz and several pilots meet in a C.I.A. safe house in San Jose, Costa Rica. After news of the explosion, Hull phones his associates to instruct that his private plane not be used to help the wounded. [Costa Rican Special Prosecutor's Report, Dec. 1989] June 22, 1984 Hull obtains Costa Rican citizenship, which he later claims was at the C.I.A.'s request. [Tico Times, 3/23/90] October 1984 Costa Rican Government initiates investigation of Hull after he admits on radio that he aided the contras. [Tico Times, 10/26/84] December 1984 According to mercenary Jack Terrell, Hull, Robert Owen, Felipe Vidal and the alleged bomber Amac Galil meet and discuss the continuing need to kill Pastora. [New York Times, 3/1/90] July 18, 1985 David, an eyewitness source for Avirgan and Honey's La Penca investigation, is kidnapped and later allegedly murdered on Hull's ranch. [Convergence Magazine, Spring 1988] October 1985 At a San Jose, Costa Rica press conference, Tony Avirgan (who was injured in the bombing) and Martha Honey present the findings from their investigation of the La Penca bombing, identifying Hull as one of the bombing's planners. [La Penca: Report of an Investigation, Tony Avirgan and Martha Honey, 1985] Days after Avirgan and Honey's report is published, Hull files suit against the journalists, charging them with ``injuries, falsehood and defamation of character'' because of their allegations of his role in the bombing [La Penca: On Trial in Costa Rica, Edited by Avirgan and Honey, 1987] April 1986 A CBS "West 57th Street" broadcast airs, in which former contra resupply pilots identify Hull's ranch as major transhipment point for military supplies and drugs, but Hull denies any role in the contra resupply network. May 22-23, 1986 Trial against Avirgan and Honey takes place, resulting in a victory for the two journalists after documents and witnesses confirm their findings. The judge throws Hull's lawsuit out of court. [La Penca: On Trial in Costa Rica, edited by Avirgan and Honey, 1987] May 1986 Christic Institute attorneys file the La Penca lawsuit (Avirgan v. Hull) on behalf of Avirgan and Honey, naming Hull and 28 others as major figures in a racketeering network involved in drug trafficking, arms smuggling. The same ring engineered the La Penca bombing, the suit alleges. [Convergence, Spring 1987] May 5, 1988 Costa Rican police announce an investigation into charges of Hull's involvement in arms and drug trafficking. May 1988 Christic Institute takes Hull's deposition for the La Penca lawsuit. He refuses to cooperate in the proceedings. June 1988 Federal Judge James L. King dismisses La Penca lawsuit in Miami two days before the trial is scheduled to begin, arguing that there is no evidence linking Hull and others to the bombing. The Christic Institute immediately announces it will appeal. January 1989 Costa Rican authorities arrest Hull on charges of drug trafficking and using Costa Rican territory for ``hostile acts'' against NIcaragua. [Tico Times, 3/23/90] April 1989 Sen. John Kerry's Foreign Relations narcotics and terrorism subcommittee releases a 1,200-page report, ``Drugs, Law Enforcement, and Foreign Policy,'' including testimony that Hull's ranch was used for gun- and drug-smuggling operations. One eyewitness tell the subcommittee that Hull supervised the transfer of drugs into a plane before its return journey to the United States. May 26, 1989 John Hull fails to appear to testify before the Costa Rican Legislative Assembly's Special Commission Investigating Narcotics. Hull later appears before the commission but refuses to be sworn in to testify. July 1989 Costa Rican Legislative Assembly concludes in an official report that Hull was trafficking drugs through the country on behalf of the contras. [The Guardian, 8/30/89] July 1989 Hull flees Costa Rica while waiting trial, jumping a $37,000 bail posted by friends. Several reports confirm that D.E.A. agent Juan Perez arranged his secret flight out of the country. [Convergence, Winter 1991] [Tico Times, 12/7/90] September 1989 Based on the Costa Rican Legislative Assembly report on drug trafficking, Oliver North, Richard Secord, former U.S. Ambassador Lewis Tambs and former National Security Adviser John Poindexter are all declared personae non gratae and banned from Costa Rica by the country's government. Secord is a defendant in Avirgan v. Hull. [The Guardian, 8/30/89] March 1990 Hull is indicted for murder in Costa Rica on charges that he masterminded the La Penca bombing. [Convergence, Spring 1990] May 1990 ABC Primetime Live airs Diane Sawyer's interview with Carlos Lehder, a key figure in the Medellin cocaine cartel. Lehder names Hull as a major cocaine trafficker and says Hull smuggled 30 tons of cocaine into the United States yearly. June 1990 Hull's name added to Interpol's "most wanted" list of international fugitives at the request of Costa Rican special prosecutor Jorge Chaverria. [Convergence, Fall 1990] November 1990 Costa Rican Legislative Assembly establishes four-member La Penca investigative committee with representatives from all political parties. November 1990 Hull slips into Nicaragua on a 72-hour visa and soon disappears. [Los Angeles Times 12/7/90] [uPI 12/11/90] December 1990 Investigators track Hull to a remote town in Southern Nicaragua--Juigalpa--which is the seat of an extreme right-wing movement against the conservative government of Violetta Chamorro. Hull is reported to be looking into investments to help contra veterans. [Tico Times, 12/7/90] December 7, 1990 Costa Rica officially asks Nicaragua to extradite Hull. December 11, 1990 Nicaraguan Supreme Court orders the arrest of Hull, although Presidential Minister Antonio Lacayo denies any knowledge of the case and says Hull was not facing criminal charges in Nicaragua. [uPI 12/12/90] Hull quietly leaves Nicaragua and returns to the United States. April 19, 1991 The Costa Rican Ambassador submits a formal request to the U.S. State Department to extradite Hull. The above complements to my friend, Dixie Dea. fm Plumlee: John Hull's strip was one of many used down there: Poco Solo was another and is where Scott Wheeler was executed. O North's, "Point West" as found in his notebooks was located at Santa Elena, CR. It was the SECRET base. It was set up by the "Udall (phoe?) Corp". In case you missed the other post this might be of help. www.phoenixarchives.com/express/1991/0591/13-06.pdf (you can cut and paste it into your broser. This article, at the time, never saw the light of day in the main stream media. It was pulled in interest of 'National Security' to protect "Ongoing Operations", After the map had been published by the San Diego Reader in 1990 it was quickly classified. It has since been upgraded to 'Classified Top Secret, Committe Sensitive by the United States Senate and the CIA. What does all this have to do with JFK. Well birds of a feather flock together. Players in the sixties, as I, were also players of the 90's. Its like a Secret Army controled by the White House.... an early forum of 'Able-Danger'. I was threaten with jail time if I did not retract the statement about GHB and his knowledge of our operations. I was told I was "UnAmerican" for telling what I knew about these secret operations and drugs for guns sorties.,utside to the public. In those days.., I was a Bad Bad Boy for doing such a bad bad thing. tosh ******************************************************* Thanks for the link, Tosh. "What does all this have to do with JFK." Everything. Because, the removal of JFK meant the chance to grab for the keys to the kingdom, while traveling under the cover of fighting back those VietCong commies. It's the poppy fields and the processing labs that hold the fortune to made in opium, and China White sales. Especially to our troops, made up of the nation's poor white trash, not-hardly-Havard-material-but-need-to-make-a-living-just-the-same, and don't forget the "negro problem", along with our little brown friends from South of the Border. Remember how many lives have been permanently altered by the introduction of what was touted to be a not-so-addicting substance, known as cocaine. When in reality that specific drug does more permanent damage to the neuro-transmitter network of the brain than any hypnotic narcotic substance ever could. This is because the binding sites in your neurons and dendrites are at risk of becoming permanently altered at the cellular level, meaning at the chromosomal/genetic level to where the enzymes needed for optimal transmission of neuronal impulses becomes permanently impaired due to the non-recognition of the binding sites of these essential enzymes needed for balanced and focussed brain activity. Imagine the control a small amount of people could essentially exert over a larger part of the populace by keeping them stoned on these illegal substances? It was, and has been done three or four times over since the death of JFK. So, yes this has more to do with the JFK assassination than readily met the eye, back in the early 60's. And, in 1968 I was under the impression that we were really over in VietNam for the tungsten and tin. Silly me.

********************************************************* Go away.

Ref: Plumlee ".... DEA FILES INFORMATION: DEAfiles.pdf DEA Mexico OPS: These documents make reference to "Guatemalan Guerrillas" training at a ranch owned by Drug Lord CARO- Quintero in Vera Crus, Mexico. It was reported at the time this was a CIA training site where weapons were exchanged for drugs in support of the Contra effort in Nicaragua and Costa Rico. DEA Agent Enrique Camarena (KIKI) and his pilot found out about this operation known as "The CIA Thing" and were killed because of this knowledge. Plumlee and other American undercover pilots had flown into this ranch many times as reported in various sections within these documents and other news media leaks in Mexico and America. The operation was known as "AMSOG" and, as reported to Senator Gary Hart and his Senate investigators in early 1983, was an "illegal" smuggling operation through Mexico into the United States, supported by the US Military, Panama Southern Command. Ref: DEA Secret Class 2 documents investigators Susand Baldwin and Hector Berelliz DEA. Documents can be found at toshplumlee.info in PDF foremat. *********************************************************************** "It was reported at the time this was a CIA training site where weapons were exchanged for drugs in support of the Contra effort in Nicaragua and Costa Rica." "...and Costa Rica." Could this have been the landing strip belonging to Senator John Hull, by any chance? CHRONOLOGY OF JOHN HULL'S ALLEGED CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES June 7, 1991 1982-1986 John Hull's ranch in Northern Costa Rica serves as the main supply base for the contras on the Southern Front of Nicaragua. [Newsday, 5/10/87] October 1984 Hull receives $10,000 a month from the Reagan-Bush Administration's National Security Council… September 1984 and deposits the money into a Miami bank account. [senate Foreign Relations subcommittee report, "Private Assistance' and the Contras: A Staff Report." 10/14/86] [Common Cause, Sept/Oct. 1985] [Covert Action Bulletin, Winter 86] [New York Daily News, 1/8/87] 1984 Hull takes out a $375,000 loan from the Overseas Private Investment Corporation for a supposed manufacturing project. Hull deposits the money into his private account in Indiana and the project is never started. He later defaults on the loan. [senate Foreign Relations narcotics and terrorism subcommittee: ``Drugs, Law Enforcement, and Foreign Policy,'' a report on investigation of contra drug trafficking, April 1989] April 9, 1984 Plane piloted by a Nicaraguan crashes while taking off from the airstrip on Hull's ranch, purportedly because it was overloaded with military supplies. [Tico Times, 9/28/84] April 25, 1984 Hull's ranch is raided and he is detained by security officers investigating allegations of Southern Front contra activities in Costa Rica. [Tico Times 4/27/84] April 1984 Pastora is given a 30-day deadline to unify his forces with the F.D.N. in the North. [Out of Control, Leslie Cockburn] May 30, 1984 A bomb explodes in La Penca, Nicaragua, killing three journalists--including U.S. citizen Linda Frazier--and injuring many others. The bomb's apparent target, moderate contra leader Eden Pastora, is injured but survives. One of the reporters wounded in the bombing is ABC cameraman Tony Avirgan. [Convergence, Spring 1987] May 30, 1984 Hull, Robert Owen, C.I.A. station chief Phil Holtz and several pilots meet in a C.I.A. safe house in San Jose, Costa Rica. After news of the explosion, Hull phones his associates to instruct that his private plane not be used to help the wounded. [Costa Rican Special Prosecutor's Report, Dec. 1989] June 22, 1984 Hull obtains Costa Rican citizenship, which he later claims was at the C.I.A.'s request. [Tico Times, 3/23/90] October 1984 Costa Rican Government initiates investigation of Hull after he admits on radio that he aided the contras. [Tico Times, 10/26/84] December 1984 According to mercenary Jack Terrell, Hull, Robert Owen, Felipe Vidal and the alleged bomber Amac Galil meet and discuss the continuing need to kill Pastora. [New York Times, 3/1/90] July 18, 1985 David, an eyewitness source for Avirgan and Honey's La Penca investigation, is kidnapped and later allegedly murdered on Hull's ranch. [Convergence Magazine, Spring 1988] October 1985 At a San Jose, Costa Rica press conference, Tony Avirgan (who was injured in the bombing) and Martha Honey present the findings from their investigation of the La Penca bombing, identifying Hull as one of the bombing's planners. [La Penca: Report of an Investigation, Tony Avirgan and Martha Honey, 1985] Days after Avirgan and Honey's report is published, Hull files suit against the journalists, charging them with ``injuries, falsehood and defamation of character'' because of their allegations of his role in the bombing [La Penca: On Trial in Costa Rica, Edited by Avirgan and Honey, 1987] April 1986 A CBS "West 57th Street" broadcast airs, in which former contra resupply pilots identify Hull's ranch as major transhipment point for military supplies and drugs, but Hull denies any role in the contra resupply network. May 22-23, 1986 Trial against Avirgan and Honey takes place, resulting in a victory for the two journalists after documents and witnesses confirm their findings. The judge throws Hull's lawsuit out of court. [La Penca: On Trial in Costa Rica, edited by Avirgan and Honey, 1987] May 1986 Christic Institute attorneys file the La Penca lawsuit (Avirgan v. Hull) on behalf of Avirgan and Honey, naming Hull and 28 others as major figures in a racketeering network involved in drug trafficking, arms smuggling. The same ring engineered the La Penca bombing, the suit alleges. [Convergence, Spring 1987] May 5, 1988 Costa Rican police announce an investigation into charges of Hull's involvement in arms and drug trafficking. May 1988 Christic Institute takes Hull's deposition for the La Penca lawsuit. He refuses to cooperate in the proceedings. June 1988 Federal Judge James L. King dismisses La Penca lawsuit in Miami two days before the trial is scheduled to begin, arguing that there is no evidence linking Hull and others to the bombing. The Christic Institute immediately announces it will appeal. January 1989 Costa Rican authorities arrest Hull on charges of drug trafficking and using Costa Rican territory for ``hostile acts'' against NIcaragua. [Tico Times, 3/23/90] April 1989 Sen. John Kerry's Foreign Relations narcotics and terrorism subcommittee releases a 1,200-page report, ``Drugs, Law Enforcement, and Foreign Policy,'' including testimony that Hull's ranch was used for gun- and drug-smuggling operations. One eyewitness tell the subcommittee that Hull supervised the transfer of drugs into a plane before its return journey to the United States. May 26, 1989 John Hull fails to appear to testify before the Costa Rican Legislative Assembly's Special Commission Investigating Narcotics. Hull later appears before the commission but refuses to be sworn in to testify. July 1989 Costa Rican Legislative Assembly concludes in an official report that Hull was trafficking drugs through the country on behalf of the contras. [The Guardian, 8/30/89] July 1989 Hull flees Costa Rica while waiting trial, jumping a $37,000 bail posted by friends. Several reports confirm that D.E.A. agent Juan Perez arranged his secret flight out of the country. [Convergence, Winter 1991] [Tico Times, 12/7/90] September 1989 Based on the Costa Rican Legislative Assembly report on drug trafficking, Oliver North, Richard Secord, former U.S. Ambassador Lewis Tambs and former National Security Adviser John Poindexter are all declared personae non gratae and banned from Costa Rica by the country's government. Secord is a defendant in Avirgan v. Hull. [The Guardian, 8/30/89] March 1990 Hull is indicted for murder in Costa Rica on charges that he masterminded the La Penca bombing. [Convergence, Spring 1990] May 1990 ABC Primetime Live airs Diane Sawyer's interview with Carlos Lehder, a key figure in the Medellin cocaine cartel. Lehder names Hull as a major cocaine trafficker and says Hull smuggled 30 tons of cocaine into the United States yearly. June 1990 Hull's name added to Interpol's "most wanted" list of international fugitives at the request of Costa Rican special prosecutor Jorge Chaverria. [Convergence, Fall 1990] November 1990 Costa Rican Legislative Assembly establishes four-member La Penca investigative committee with representatives from all political parties. November 1990 Hull slips into Nicaragua on a 72-hour visa and soon disappears. [Los Angeles Times 12/7/90] [uPI 12/11/90] December 1990 Investigators track Hull to a remote town in Southern Nicaragua--Juigalpa--which is the seat of an extreme right-wing movement against the conservative government of Violetta Chamorro. Hull is reported to be looking into investments to help contra veterans. [Tico Times, 12/7/90] December 7, 1990 Costa Rica officially asks Nicaragua to extradite Hull. December 11, 1990 Nicaraguan Supreme Court orders the arrest of Hull, although Presidential Minister Antonio Lacayo denies any knowledge of the case and says Hull was not facing criminal charges in Nicaragua. [uPI 12/12/90] Hull quietly leaves Nicaragua and returns to the United States. April 19, 1991 The Costa Rican Ambassador submits a formal request to the U.S. State Department to extradite Hull. The above complements to my friend, Dixie Dea.

What an honor: to have both Alfred McCoy and Peter Dale Scott post here in the same day! Prof McCoy: Your seminal work: "The politics of Heroin" made many of us 60's kids understand what Viet Nam was really all about. Dawn ********************************************************************** "What an honor: to have both Alfred McCoy and Peter Dale Scott post here in the same day! Prof McCoy: Your seminal work: "The politics of Heroin" made many of us 60's kids understand what Viet Nam was really all about. Dawn" Talk about calling up the "heavy hitters"? Our prayers have been answered, Dawn. ********************************************************************* "The politics of Heroin" "China White", and to think they tried to convince us we were only there for the tungsten and tin.

****************************************************************** Deleted by T. Mauro due to article printed in full and posted here without editor's permission.

*********************************************************** May I quote John Lennon on this one? "The F.B.I.I.I.I.I.I.I.I.I, and the C.I.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A.A, and the B.B.C., and the K.G.B. Dig it! Dig it! Dig it! Matt Moltbey [sp.?]." I don't know, but for some strange reason after reading that first url, that's what came into my mind's ear. He was spot on. Sorry.

Well Hi Nancy, Let me clarify a few things if I may. Terry is absolutely correct. "Standing on the shoulder" of the highway as cars pass by is a metaphor, a euphemism of sorts, that indicates life passing you by. Mary's statement has nothing to do with I95 or any other highway. You are partially correct however, in that a 50 mile portion of I95 in Maryland is called the "JFK Highway". Local towns and counties do that quite often in the US. There's a portion of a state highway in my area that the county named "Veterans Memorial Highway", but still has its number designation. It's just a political thing in the local area. The entire I95 isn't the JFK Highway however, just that 50 mile stretch. Mary's statement HAD meaning, in that we need to get moving on this case or it will pass us by, just as cars pass by someone standing on the shoulder of a highway. RJS ******************************************************************* "Mary's statement HAD meaning, in that we need to get moving on this case or it will pass us by, just as cars pass by someone standing on the shoulder of a highway." Thanks, Rich. Good to see you here, today. Ter

******************************************************************* Are you asking those of us with I.Q.'s above, or below 100? Those above 100 should be equally appalled and livid that we've allowed this government to be usurped by a laissez-faire condoning, fascist, neo-con congress in 1994, for starters. In other words, how was it that so many people were asleep at the wheel to have allowed this to occur? Only in a system whose checks and balances are so out of wack! But, this certainly paved the way for the ultimate low achiever to have sailed to victory on his father's coat-tails. What do you expect from a moron? You've got ONE party with TWO branches. The blind leading the blind. Those under 100, will immediately find this inquiry to be UN-AMERICAN. Why? Because they voted for Bush solely based on his christian faith. Because, the majority between NY and LA comprise the RED states, and you "best believe" they're standing by their president, RIGHT or WRONG. Why? Because they voted for him, and no amount of pointing out to these people how the inequities in their lives, their lack of healthcare, their waitress, stock-boy jobs at minimum wage, and the fact that they'll never be able to rise above this poverty level of existence is ever going to register in their pea-brained minds, as a direct correlation to the moronic idiot they voted into office, based on his religious beliefs. Also known as, blind faith. But, thats merely MHO. Check out TRUTHOUT'S traveling roadshow through the RED states. They're interviewing the American heartland, asking their reasons for voting for Alfred E. Neuman.

*************************************************************************** "I would also point out that there have been numerous Forum members making similar barbs at her posts." Besides, if T.G. had been excruciatingly obnoxious, I would've gone after him like a bat out of hell. And, since I've gotten the blocking mechanism to work, I'm a much happier forum member. Now, let me go and add that other embarrassment to my list [not you, T.G.], now that I know it works. I found you have to re-boot before it takes effect.

Once again you have inserted yourself into a thread where you have nothing of any importance to contribute. All you do is for other members to see your name at the end of the thread which probably put them off from reading it (and therefore missing other member’s more interesting contributions). Like Lynne Foster you insist of posting in every thread. Very rarely do either of you have anything of any relevance to say. It is either a puerile joke at the expense of another member or an attempt to bring the discussion round to your own theories of the assassination. This has got to stop. You are spoiling the Forum. You are both on your final warnings. If you don’t do it you will be put on permanent moderation. *************************************************************** John, sometimes T.G. can be really funny, and he does offer an intelligent exchange. There's something to be said for a spirited challenge, and he can be gracious when admitting he's wrong. At least, his debates are structured, if not sometimes skewed towards his conservative [fascist] view of life. On the other hand, the bitch with the toxic urls, and xxxx for brains is another story altogether. And, I do find it reprehensible to try and lump T.G. in with the likes of that wing-nut. I know how T.G. can piss off my friend, Dawn, but it's simply a matter of politics, and which side of the battle line you're on. I think I can speak for Dawn in saying that T.G. can be trying alot of the time, but at least he's sincere in his fascist beliefs, even if his rebuttals have a tendency to make me want to strangle him most of the time.

Interesting that Mary would state this up on top. What they hoped would pinpoint what JFK did to agravate people in his decision of opening the highway. Yet, not talked about into any debate on JFK for reasons why JFK got shot. Just is not named. Yet, it is on records. Sort of that is. As to how Mary knew it was REMOTE now that is really shocking since she probably never went there never saw it on the news or barely and since not many people were even there to view this act being done. Rare that they didn't openly announce this ahead of time so a large crowd would draw near JFK to be near the president. Just a handful of people were there. Odd that it is so kept so silent to this day and YET MARY KNEW THIS FACT. Open up what is behind that point and you got a handful of information. DUPONT OH YEAH BUSH JOHNSON TEXAS BUSINESS'S How much was Mary's hands tied? Maybe she was on many rights tracks but her hands were so very tied and someone needs to tell it about that on her. OPEN UP ******************************************************************* "We must WIN this struggle for the truth…and do so very quickly, lest the assassination of President Kennedy flounder on some remote shoulder of the highway, in a century who’s history is already on the way to the printer. In the next century, this case could be relegated to obscure questions on high school history examinations." "lest the assassination of President Kennedy flounder on some remote shoulder of the highway" Nancy - Mary was using the expression, "lest the assassination of President Kennedy [be left to] flounder on some remote shoulder of the highway", as a metaphorical analogy of what might happen to the memory of his assassination should the event be allowed to be forgotten from the collective memory of the citizens of the United States, over the passage of time. Similar to the saying, "Out of sight, out of mind." She wasn't referring to any actual or specific place, or location on a map. "One of the last acts that Pres. Kennedy did was on the shoulder of the Highway. He was warned on that so I have heard NOT TO DO THE JFK HIGHWAY. Some didn't want a road to open up from Maine to the Florida Keys. Why manybe it was thought to be the act of taking JFK life in Florida first then dropped it. Some remote part of the hightway. It is so SICK AND SO SAD ON THAT REMOTE PART OF THE HIGHWAY. Barely a stone to show where JFK Stood. A sign to say JFK RESEARCH on one of the cut off's of the highway. Yet barely anyone knows this is where a great man stood to name this highway to be opened that so many use on the Eastern side of USA to make travel faster and easier to get to large cities." Nancy - Are you by any chance referring to I-95? Do you not see or understand that this statement you made [above] only reinforces the problems Mary was discussing regarding the trouble the research community faces in going up against the Eastern Establishment which BTW, has already "bought and paid for" these mass media conglomerates [please be referred to John Simkins' thread on Operation Mockingbird]? And, how these commercial media outlets relish in labelling those of us who don't accept the Warren Commission's Report as, "conspiracy buffs", "malcontents", or "the unpatriotic lunatic 'commie' fringe." You've just happened to have proven them correct and added more fuel to their fire with that above post of yours. Do you not understand or realize how your post comes across to the student body here, on this forum? Please try to read more carefully and thoroughly before replying to a post such as this one, of Bill Kelly's.

Tim: If you mean this- and I have no reason to believe you are lying- then this is a big step for you. You should listen to the radio program about this. Just google "Taking Aim" and click on the three hour interview with Joan Mellen. Lots of stuff about the CIA. Dawn Dawn, when you protect Mafia linked demagogues like Jim Garrison, you are the CIA's greatest asset. ************************************************************** "Dawn, when you protect Mafia linked demagogues like Jim Garrison, you are the CIA's greatest asset." And likewise, when you continue to butt in on these threads with your usual misinformed opinions, you're considered one of the greatest stark-raving assholes! Explain to me how to go about blocking this bitch's babblings? I've been busy with work and just popped in to read when I got sucker-punched by this nitwit's drivel.

**************************************************************** "I don't know why you act like a mad cow, I don't really think that John's message board is going to change the world and you need a vacation -try North Korea, I think you'd feel more comfortable there." And, you're a putz. "you act like a mad cow" Sorry, but I don't buy your beef. "try North Korea" They don't call me "Hanoi Jane" for nothing, ya know.

******************************************************** "What do you think? Will we ever know for sure? Is the "final secret" in the yet-unreleased documents?" First of all, there was a time when we were assured that 50 years following the date of the assassination, Jacqueline Kennedy would reveal all that she knew concerning the mechanizations involved in the death of her husband. I believe this would have set that date to fall around, 2013. Now, we've been informed that this date, along with a morphed version of whatever truths she may have intended to impart to the public [which have most likely been destroyed, as just about everything else has], which would have been made available and declassified at that time, has been changed. This date has been presently set for 2038. The newly chosen date would take me to the age of 93, should I be so lucky to live that long. Time enough for all the perpetrators to have been silenced by either natural or un-natural causes. Time enough for those of us who came of age on that day in 1963, to be dead and gone. Time enough for the "passage of time" to have all but obliterated the memory of JFK, and relegated his legacy to that of, what did the "caller" refer to it as, "the realm of historical curiosity"? A curiosity? How equally banal and sad that the fascists have been allowed to literally win, hands down. That the memories, along with the intellect of the American people, have been virtually usurped and replaced by nothing more than a cartoonish "reality" version of what now seemingly passes for real life, in real time. The sheeple have "voted in" their choices and those choices belong to them, alone. It is ironic to say the least, to be standing on the edge of forever, bearing witness to Western Civilization readying itself for the final throes of death. It should be equally interesting at best, to observe who'll be ringing in its death knell, and who will be set to emerge as the next world super-power.

I am going to quote this foolishness before you have a chance to think it over and edit it out, like you did for another recent post. So Harold Weisberg told you that Garrison was covering for Nixon, huh? I have no hesitation in calling you a xxxx. Do you actually expect anyone to take this seriously? OH WOW, A 17 YEAR OLD HIGH SCHOOL STALKER ! lol ! ******************************************************* "OH WOW, A 17 YEAR OLD HIGH SCHOOL STALKER ! lol !" A stalker? Is that all you can come up with? You're a dumbass. I am going to quote this foolishness before you have a chance to think it over and edit it out, like you did for another recent post. So Harold Weisberg told you that Garrison was covering for Nixon, huh? I have no hesitation in calling you a xxxx. Do you actually expect anyone to take this seriously? OH WOW, A 17 YEAR OLD HIGH SCHOOL STALKER ! lol ! ******************************************************* "OH WOW, A 17 YEAR OLD HIGH SCHOOL STALKER ! lol !" A stalker? Is that all you can come up with? You're a dumbass. ***************************************************** O.K. Owen, Dawn, et.al. This is her thread. Let's leave it for good. Let her talk to herself. The only time she should be slapped down is if she tries hi-jack someone elses thread. We don't need to waste any more time or attention on this broad.