Steve Thomas

Dawn, I wish you would contribute every now and then. I always looked forward to your posts. You helped me out a lot in the past. Steve Thomas

David, I wonder what her "acute medical problems" were. Phillips wrote this in June of 73? and she had been on sick leave since July, 72? and was waiting for her retirement in October? It must have been pretty bad. I hope she didn't suffer. Steve Thomas

David, You wrote, " but the name Lee Oswald was called out by Bentley from the back seat, and said this identification, I believe, was on the library card." I have different issues with the library card, but that's a whole 'nuther discussion. The only two people who address the subject of an address being discussed on the ride from the Theater to downtown were Bob Carroll and Gerald Hill. Carroll said that no address was mentioned, and Hill said there were two addresses found on Oswald's ID - one in Oak Cliff, and one in Irving. We know that Oswald did not have any ID with an Irving St. address on him, so that makes the Oak Cliff address, i.e. the library card suspicious in my mind. You wrote, OR AT LEAST ADMITTING TO IT... SHE ALSO AGREED TO ADMIT TO TAKING 3 OR 4 PHOTOS WHEN SHE COULDN'T HAVE POSSIBLY HAVE TAKEN EVEN 1... a PROCESS EVEN SHE WOULD HAVE TO REMEMBER During one of her testimonies (I don't remember which one) she said she took the pictures by holding the camera up to her eye. If she did that, she would have poked her eye out. You wrote, " THE RIFLE WAS NEVER ORDERED, NEVER SHIPPED, NEVER DELIVERED..." I only put that in about the rifle being picked up, because, if a rifle was shipped, we have no way of knowing who picked it up. It could have been anybody. As Harry Holmes told the WC, Mr. HOLMES. "Actually, the window where you get the box is all the way around the corner and a different place from the box, and the people that box the mail, and in theory---I am surmising now, because nobody knows. I have questioned everybody, and they have no recollection. The man would take this card out. There is nothing on this card. There is no name on it, not even a box number on it. He comes around and says, "I got this out of my box." And he says, "What box?" "Box number so and so." They look in a bin where they have this by box numbers, and whatever the name on it, whatever they gave him, he just hands him the package, and that is all there is to it." I'll take the 2%. Steve Thomas

Jim, Sure. Without all the supporting documentation, it goes like this: Oswald freely admitted having the Selective Service card, but denied that was his signature. Why? He was either lying or telling the truth. If he was lying, you could prove it by submitting the card to handwriting experts, but that wasn't done. Did the same person who signed the name “Hidell” on the SS card also sign the name Hidell on the form that ordered the rifle? We don't know. I can't find any instance where Lee used the card as form of identification for anything; to get a job, to buy a beer, to get a license – nothing. Sylvia Meagher says the same thing in her book, Accessories After the Fact. The name on the card links him to the rifle purchase. If he was telling the truth, who else was known to be signing the name A. Hidell? Marina. She admitted to signing the name Hidell to “two or three things” that were not pamphlets, but she wasn't asked what those “two or three things” were. She said that some of them were cards. Oswald said he never ordered a rifle, and no postal employees saw him pick one up. Did anyone else ever pick one up? We don't know. On several occasions, Marina says they were living on Neely St. in January, and that she saw the rifle in February, but they didn't move to Neely and rifle wasn't purchased until March. A photograph of Oswald with the rifle emerges 13 years after the fact. On the back is an inscription allegedly dedicating it to George DeMohrenschildt. The inscription uses a dating method that Oswald was not known to use, but Marina did. Marina says that the pictures were shown to George, but George says he never saw it. The handwriting experts commissioned by the government were unable to determine who wrote the caption on the back of the photo. The picture and an undated letter concerning the Walker shooting fall out of items that have been in the personal possession of Marina; after they have been seized and searched by the Dallas Police. It just makes me wonder. Steve Thomas

Mike, Just for your own curiosity, you might be interested in this list of subversive groups that were investigated by the Dallas Police Criminal Intelligence Division prior to Kennedy's visit. It's in Box 13, Folder# 4, Item# 52 of the DPD Archives here: http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box13.htm I have become convinced that Oswald was not in tthe Police Department's Intelligence files. In other words, the feds didn't share what they knew about Oswald. Steve Thomas

I have been sitting on this for a while. It started with the fact that Lee Oswald freely admitted to possessing the Alek Hidell Selective Service card, but either "denied", or "refused to admit" that the signature on the card was his. That puzzled me. I ended up with the DeMohrenschildt "Hunter For Fascists" rifle photo. There are things that have me troubled. If my reasoning is wrong, or if I've gotten a fact wrong, please let me know. Oswald admitted he had the Alek James Hidell Selective Service card, bur either “denied” or “declined to admit” that the signature was his. Marina admitted to signing the name “Hidell” to “two or three things” with the name “Hidell” that were not pamphlets. Marina said on at least three occasions that they were living on Neely St. in January, and initially, that she had seen Lee cleaning the rifle in January (which she later corrected to mean she saw it for the first time in March). The handwriting experts commissioned by the HSCA were not asked to analyze the signature on the Hidell Selective Service card, or to compare the signature on the rifle order form with the signature on the DeMohrenschildt rifle photo. The troubling instances of evidence in this case in Marina Oswald's possession appearing after they have been seized and searches by the Dallas Police Oswald either denied, or declined to admit that the signature on the Hidell Selective Service card was his. Manning Clements. Appendix XI of Warren Report. Page 614. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=638&tab=page “Oswald declined to explain his possession of a photograph of a Selective Service card in the name of “Alek James Hiddell”. WC testimony of Manning Clements: http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/clements.htm Mr. STERN. What did he say about that card? Mr. CLEMENTS. He declined to answer any questions as to the reason of his possession of it. In his FBI Report concerning Oswald's second interview on the 23rd, James Bookhout wrote: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=647&tab=page “With regard to Selective Service Card in the possession of Oswald bearing photograph of Oswald and the name of Alek James Hidell, Oswald admitted that he carried this Selective Service card, but declined to state that he wrote the signature of Alek J. Hidell appearing on same. He further declined to state the purpose of carrying same or any use he has made of same.” James Bookhout. Warren Report. Appendix XI. Reports Relating to the Interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald at the Dallas Police Department https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=647&tab=page Mr. BOOKHOUT - One specific question was with regard to the selective service card in the possession of Oswald bearing a photograph of Oswald and the name Alek James Hidell. Oswald admitted he carried this selective service card, but declined to state that he wrote the signature of Alek J. Hidell appearing on same. Further declined to state the purpose of carrying same, and---or any use he made of same. WC testimony of James Bookhout: http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/bookhout.htm Mr. STERN - What sort of question would he refuse to answer? Was there any pattern to his refusing? Mr. BOOKHOUT - Well, now, I am not certain whether this would apply then to this particular interview, the first interview or not, in answering this, but I recall specifically one of the interviews asking him about the Selective Service card which he had in the name of Hidell, and he admitted that he was carrying the card, but that he would not admit that he wrote the signature of Hidell on the card, and at that point stated that he refused to discuss the matter further. I think generally you might say anytime that you asked a question that would be pertinent to the investigation, that would be the type of question he would refuse to discuss. Thomas Kelley. Appendix XI of Warren Report. Page 627. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=651&tab=page “At this time, Captain Fritz showed a Selective Service card that was taken out of his wallet which bore the name of “Alex Hidell. Oswald refused to discuss this after being asked for an explanation of it, both by Fritz and by James Bookhout, the FBI Agent.” The interrogation on Sunday the 24th. Harry Holmes WC testimony: http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm 'Then Captain Fritz interrupted and said, "Well, what about this card we got out of your billfold? This draft registration card, he called it, where it showed A. J. Hidell." "Well, that is the only time that I recall he kind of flared up and he said, "Now, I have told you all I am going to tell you about that card in my billfold." He said, "You have the card yourself, and you know as much about it as I do." And he showed a little anger. Really the only time that he flared up. “ What I am trying to figure out, is why Oswald didn't denounce the Hidell ID in as strong a terms as he denounced the photos of him with a rifle. He didn't say, "The card's a fraud and I'll be able to prove it at a later time." Supposedly, Oswald: 1) Admitted the card was in his possession; 2) Denied that the signature was his; and, 3) Refused to discuss it further Is Oswald trying to tell us something? If the card was supposed to be used for identification purposes, do we know of any case where it was used as a form of ID? If not, then what was its purpose? There is this WC testimony from Will Fritz: Mr. BALL. Another thing, that day, at sometime during the 22d when you questioned Oswald, didn't you ask him about this card he had in his pocket with the name Alek Hidell? Mr. FRITZ. I did; yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What did you ask him about that? Mr. FRITZ. I believe he had three of those cards if I remember correctly, and he told me that was the name that he picked up in New Orleans that he had used sometimes. One of the cards looked like it might have been altered a little bit and one of them I believe was the Fair Play for Cuba and one looked like a social security card or something. Mr. BALL. Yes. Mr. FRITZ. We have pictures of those cards here. You no doubt have them. Mr. BALL. Yes. We have them. Did he say that he had used that as a name? Mr. FRITZ. He told me that is a name he picked up in New Orleans. Mr. BALL. Did he say---- Mr. FRITZ. I presumed by that he had used it by saying he had picked it up in New Orleans. Mr. BALL. To one officer he said he didn't want to talk about that or he wouldn't talk about that? Mr. FRITZ. That is right. Very often he would do that. He would tell him some things and tell me some things. Mr. BALL. I am talking about this card, A. Hidell. Do you recall whether he told you he had picked it up in New Orleans and--or did he tell you he didn't want to talk about it? He wouldn't talk about it? Mr. FRITZ. He didn't tell me he wouldn't want to talk about it. He told me he had picked it up down there and when I questioned further then he told me he didn't want to talk about it. There are a couple of things in here that interest me. 1) There are at least three people who say that they saw and questioned Oswald about the Hidell ID on Friday night: Detective Guy Rose, FBI Agent Manning Clements, and H&R Division Captain Will Fritz.. I think that should answer the question of when the Hidell ID emerged. 2) The police officer Fritz refers to. To me, there seems to be a mystery police officer in the mix here. 3) Oswald admits to having the Hidell ID card in his possession, and either "declines to admit", or "denies" that the signature is his; and then refuses to discuss it further. Fritz said that Oswald said "he had used it sometimes", but I have yet to discover what it was ever used for. Fritz's Interrogation Notes: http://www.jfklancer.com/Fritzdocs.html 2nd Interview November 23rd 10:35 – 11:34 Present Were: T.J. Kelly Robert Nash Grant?? B.O. and myself Boyd + Hall B.O. asks about Heidel selective service card – admits having- would not admit signature – wouldn't say why he had it. Marina's statements that she signed several things with the name, “Hidell” and that not all of them were pamphlets. Warren Commission testimony of Marina Oswald June 11, 1964. Warren Commission Hearings, Volume V pp. 401-402 https://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol5/page401.php Mr. Dulles. Did you ever sign any more such cards with the name "Hidell"? Mrs. Oswald. Only this one. Mr. Dulles. And you never signed the name "Hidell" on any other paper at any time? Mrs. Oswald. Only once. Mr. Dulles. Did you ever sign the name Hidell at any subsequent time to any document? Mr. Mckenzie. If you recall signing it. Do you recall signing his name to any other document? Mrs. Oswald. I only remember this one occasion. Mr. Dulles. Did you make some practice runs of writing this name before you actually put it on the card? Mrs. Oswald. Yes; because it was difficult for me to write English properly. Mr. Dulles. So you mean you wrote it several times on another sheet of paper and then put it on this card? Mrs. Oswald. Yes. Representative Ford. Was there anybody else present at the time of this incident? Mrs. Oswald. No; only Lee. Representative Ford. Did he have you sign only one card? Mrs. Oswald. This was the only time when I--when Lee asked me to do this and I did it. I might have signed two or--- cards and not just one but there weren't a great many. Representative Ford. Did the other cards have someone else's name besides Lee Harvey Oswald on it? Mrs. Oswald. No; only Lee Oswald. Representative Ford. But you think you might have signed more than one such card? Mrs. Oswald. Maybe two, three. This is just 1 day when I was signing this. It just happened on one occasion. Marina's 1969 testimony at the Clay Shaw trial: http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/marinash.htm Q: Did you sign anything for him down here? A: Yes, sir. Q: What did you sign? A: Some kind of paper about something, but I don't remember what it was. Q: Would you recall -- A: The name Hidell. Q: Hidell? A: Yes. Q: You signed the name, Hidell? A: Yes, sir. Q: And what was your purpose of doing that? A: He asked me to do it and I refused, and then he forced me to do it. Q: What do you mean, forced you? A: He threatened me if I wouldn't do it he use, you know -- how shall I say? Q: Physical threats? A: Physical threats, yes, sir. CE 2726 p. 105 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=141&tab=page is a June 17, 1964 letter from Hoover to J. Lee Rankin concerning Marina's signature on the A.J. Hidell signature on the Fair Play for Cuba Committee membership card. The FBI determined that Marina signed the FPCC membership card in the name of A.J. Hidell. Hoover says that Exhibits 404A, 408A, 409A and 420 are being returned to you. These are samples of Marina's handwriting. These handwriting examples can be found in Volume XVII of the Hearings and Exhibits here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134 They were introduced during Ruth Paine's WC testimony in Volume II. From Marina's HSCA Deposition: http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo4/jfk12/marinade.htm Q. Did he ask you to put your name on any of the leaflets ? A. Well, he asked me to put my name on something but I didn't think it was those leaflets. Q. What name did they have on the pamphlets? Did Lee have his name on the pamphlets? A. I do not recall that the pamphlets have any name on them. I re- member that Lee used to sign his name different than his real name on some things but which things they were I do not recall right now. 3) Marina's statements about living on Neely St. in January, 1963 Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XXII Current Section: CE 1156 - FBI report dated February 18, 1964, of interview of Marina Oswald, Dallas, Tex. (CD 735, pp. 439-445). http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=227 Marina told the FBI on February 17, 1964 that she saw Oswald practicing with the rifle at the Neely Street address at the beginning of January, 1963. 9(CE 1156 p. 197). On February 18, 1964 she told the FBI that she was mistaken about the date, and that the rifle cleaning incident had taken place in March, 1963. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=815 Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us approximately when you first met Ruth Paine? Mrs. OSWALD. Soon after New Years I think it was in January. Mr. RANKIN. Would that be 1963? Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Mr. RANKIN. Did Mrs. Paine ever visit you at Elsbeth Street? Mrs. OSWALD. At Neely, on Neely Street. Mr. RANKIN. But not at Elsbeth? Mrs. OSWALD. We moved soon after that acquaintance. Warren Commission testimony of Marina Oswald February 3, 1964, http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/oswald_m1.htm Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall seeing any guns at Mercedes Street while you were there? Mrs. OSWALD. No. Mr. RANKIN. Did you observe any guns in your things when you moved? (From Fort Worth to Elsbeth) Mrs. OSWALD. No. Mr. RANKIN. While you were at Elsbeth Street do you recall seeing any guns in your apartment? Mrs. OSWALD. No. ___________________________________________ Mr. RANKIN. When did you move to Neely Street from the Elsbeth Street apartment? Mrs. OSWALD. In January after the new year. I don't remember exactly. Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the first time that you observed the rifle? Mrs. OSWALD. That was on Neely Street. I think that was in February. For whatever reason, this can't be true. The Oswalds moved from Elsbeth to Neely on March 3rd and according to the postal money order, the rifle wasn't ordered until March 12th. Mr. JENNER - Now you are acquainted, became acquainted with Marina Oswald, did you not, in due course in Irving, Tex.? Mrs. PAINE - No. I first met her and her husband at a gathering of people in Dallas at the home of Everett Glover. Mr. JENNER - I will get to that in a moment. Mr. JENNER - You met Marina for the first time when. Mrs. PAINE - I judge it was the last of February, towards the end of February of 1963. Mr. JENNER - Now would you please relate the circumstances under which the meeting between yourself and Marina Oswald first occurred in February of 1963. Mrs. PAINE - I was invited to come to the home of Everett Glover to meet a few friends of his, and I Judge that was on the 22d of February looking back at my calendar. Mrs. PAINE - It was Friday evening. Mr. JENNER - Friday evening? Mrs. PAINE - The 22d was Friday In her HSCA testimony, Marina couldn't remember the first time she saw the rifle. http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo4/jfk12/marinade.htm Marina's HSCA testimony http://jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/hscamar1.htm When do you first recall seeing Lee with a rifle in the United States? Mrs. PORTER. I cannot pinpoint exact month, you know, date of any kind. Mr. McDONALD. Where did you first see it? Mrs. PORTER. I do not remember where or when, but I can say that Lee did have a rifle during life in the United States. Mr. McDONALD. When you refer to the "closet," what apartment are you referring to? At what apartment are we talking about? Mrs. PORTER. I do not recall any apartment, but maybe one in Dallas. Mr. McDONALD. The one on Neely Street? Mrs. PORTER. Neely Street; yes. Mr. McDONALD. Did you ask him where he obtained this rifle? Mrs. PORTER. No, I didn't. TESTIMONY OF MRS. LEE HARVEY OSWALD RESUMED The President's Commission met at 10 a.m. on February 6, 1964 Mr. THORNE. Exhibit 105 is the original of a notebook containing various writings in English and in Russian Mrs. OSWALD. This is when Lee was getting ready to go to Russia, and he made a list of the things that he wanted to buy and take with him. Further, I don't know what he had written in there. Mr. DULLES. Was this the time he went or the time he didn't go? Mrs. OSWALD. When he didn't--when he intended to. Mr. RANKIN. In Exhibit 105, Mrs. Oswald, I will ask you if you noted that your husband had listed in that "Gun and case, Price 24 REC. 17." Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know what that is. Unfortunately, I cannot help. I don't know what this means. Mr. RANKIN. But you do observe the item in the list in that booklet, do you? Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Now I see it. Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence Exhibit 105. Mr. RANKIN. I offer in evidence Exhibit 135. The CHAIRMAN. It will be admitted. (The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 135, and received in evidence.) Mr. RANKIN. I call the Commission's attention to the fact that this is the coupon under which it appears the rifle was ordered, showing an enclosed $10 notation--"Check for $29.95, A. G. Hidell, age 28, post office box 2915, Dallas, Texas" And it is marked, "One quantity. Point 38 ST. W. 2 inch barrel, 29.95." and underlined is 29.95, and an arrow at that point. Exhibit 135 is an order form for the pistol, not the rifle. CE 773 was the Klein's Order Form for the Rifle CE 788 was the Postal Money Order for the Rifle She is not shown either the Hidell Selective Service card or the rifle order form. On three separate occasions that I have found, Marina says that the Oswalds were living on Neely Street in January, 1963. (1) Warren Commission testimony of Marina Oswald February 3, 1964, http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/oswald_m1.htm Mr. RANKIN. When did you move to Neely Street from the Elsbeth Street apartment? Mrs. OSWALD. In January after the new year. I don't remember exactly. Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the first time that you observed the rifle? Mrs. OSWALD. That was on Neely Street. I think that was in February. Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the day that you took the picture of him with the rifle and the pistol? Mrs. OSWALD. I think that that was towards the end of February, possibly the beginning of March. I can't say exactly. Because I didn't attach any significance to it at the time. That was the only time I took any pictures. I know that on a Sunday he took the rifle, but I don't think he fired on a Sunday. Perhaps this was on Friday. So Sunday he left and took the rifle. Mr. RANKIN. If the Walker shooting was on Wednesday, does that refresh your memory as to the day of the week at all? Mrs. OSWALD. Refresh my memory as to what? Mr. RANKIN. As to the day of the shooting? Mrs. OSWALD. It was in the middle of the week. Where was the rifle between Sunday and Wednesday – the day of the shooting? (2) During her testimony on February 4th, Marina was asked and answered: Mr. RANKIN. Can you tell us approximately when you first met Ruth Paine? Mrs. OSWALD. Soon after New Years I think it was in January. Mr. RANKIN. Would that be 1963? Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. 3) Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XXIICurrent Section: CE 1156 - FBI report dated February 18, 1964, of interview of Marina Oswald, Dallas, Tex. (CD 735, pp. 439-445). http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=227 This is cross referenced to DL 100-10461 (4) On February 17, 1964 Marina was interviewed by FBI Special Agents Anatole Boguslav and Wallace Heitman. In their writeup of that interview done on the 18th, they wrote: “She said further that in the beginning of January, 1963 at the Neely Street address, he, (Lee Harvey Oswald) was cleaning his rifle and he said he had been practicing that day.” (page 443 of CD 735). For whatever reason, this conflicts with the official record as we know it.. Supposedly the Oswalds moved from Elsbeth to Neely on March 3rd and according to the postal money order, the rifle wasn't ordered until March 12th. CE 1404 - FBI reports dated February 22 and 25, 1964, of interviews with Marina Oswald (CD 735, pp. 446-453). On February 18, 1964 she was again interviewed by Agents Boguslav and Heitman. She told the FBI that she was mistaken about the date, and that the rifle cleaning incident had taken place in March, 1963. The Agents wrote a Report of this interview on February 22, 1964. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=815 (This is on page 446 of CD 735) Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever observe your husband taking the rifle away from the apartment on Neely Street? Mrs. OSWALD. Now, I think that he probably did sometimes, but I never did see it. You must understand that sometimes I would be in the kitchen and he would be in his room downstairs, and he would say bye-bye, I will be hack soon, and he may have taken it. He probably did. Perhaps he purely waited for an occasion when he could take it away without my seeing it. Mr. RANKIN. Did you learn at any time that he had been practicing with the rifle? Mrs. OSWALD. I think that he went once or twice. I didn't actually see him take the rifle, but I knew that he was practicing. Mr. RANKIN. Could you give us a little help on how you knew? Mrs. OSWALD. He told me. And he would mention that in passing---it isn't as if he said, "Well, today I am going"---it wasn't as if he said, "Well, today I am going to take the rifle and go and practice." But he would say, "Well, today I will take the rifle along for practice." Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever observe that the rifle had been taken out of the apartment at Neely Street---that is, that it was gone? Mr. RANKIN. Did you learn at any time that he had been practicing with the rifle? Mrs. OSWALD. I think that he went once or twice. I didn't actually see him take the rifle, but I knew that he was practicing. Mr. RANKIN. When you testified about his practicing with the rifle, are you describing a period when you were still at Neely Street? Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. Mr. RANKIN. Do you know where he practiced with the rifle? Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know where. I don't know the name of the place where this took place. But I think it was somewhere out of town. It seems to me a place called Lopfield. Mr. RANKIN. Would that be at the airport---Love Field? Mrs. OSWALD. Love Field. Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the first time that you observed the rifle? Mrs. OSWALD. That was on Neely Street. I think that was in February. Mr. RANKIN. How did you learn about it? Did you see it some place in the apartment? Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, Lee had a small room where he spent a great deal of time, where he read---where he kept his things, and that is where the rifle was. Mr. RANKIN. Was it out in the room at that time, as distinguished from in a closet in the room? Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it was open, out in the open. At first I think---I saw some package up on the top shelf, and I think that that was the rifle. But I didn't know. And apparently later he assembled it and had it in the room. Mr. RANKIN. When you saw the rifle assembled in the room, did it have the scope on it? Mrs. OSWALD. No, it did not have a scope on it. I don't know whether he took it from the house or whether perhaps he even kept the rifle somewhere outside. There was a little square, sort of a little courtyard where he might have kept it. So, let me see if I've got this straight. Marina first saw the rifle in February, before it had even been purchased. She first told the FBI that she saw Lee cleaning the rifle in January, but then later told them that she was mistaken and that the cleaning had taken place in March. It was kept out in the open, but maybe he kept it outside. She never actually saw him take the rifle away from the apartment and never talks about seeing him bring it back. Lee took the rifle on Sunday, but the shooting wasn't until Wednesday. Where was the rifle in the meantime. She said that Lee had told her her buried the rifle after the shooting. When did he go back and dig it up? When she saw the rifle, it didn't have a scope on it, but knew it had a scope because she recognized it. I read that Love Field is something like six miles from where they lived on Neely St., so he would have had to have taken the bus, unless someone was giving him rides – all the time while he working at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall. Lee was riding a bus for six miles with a rifle, several times. Makes you wonder. 4) The handwriting experts commissioned by the HSCA were not asked to analyze the signature on the Hidell Selective Service card, or to compare the signature on the rifle order form with the signature on the DeMohrenschildt rifle photo. HSCA VOLUME VIII HANDWRITING ANALYSIS OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD p. 223 March, 1979 http://jfkassassination.net/parnell/hscahand.htm https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=961#relPageId=227&tab=page The HSCA submitted 63 samples from 50 documents items to handwriting experts JOSEPH P. MC NALLY and DAVID J. PURTELL and CHARLES C. SCOTT Subsequently, the committee asked Puttell and McNally to look at whether the signature "A. J. Hidell" on the June 15, 1963, Fair Play for Cuba card was written by Marina Oswald. Purtell and McNally conclude the name "A. J. Hidell" was written on the 1963 Fair Play for Cuba card by the same person who wrote the exemplars attributed to Marina Oswald. (This doesn't tell us much. Marina admitted to having signed the FPFC card in her June 11,1964 WC testimony, and the FBI confirmed that it was her signature in Hoover's June 17, 1964 letter) https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/html/WH_Vol26_0071a.htm Item# 29 March 12, 1963. U.S. postal money order No. bearing handwritten fill-ins as follows: Klein's Sporting Goods, A. Hidell, P.O. Box 2915. Dallas, Tex. Blue ink, ballpoint pen. Location: Archives. (CE 788; JFK exhibit F-509A and 509B.) Item# 30 March 12, 1963. Enlargement of microfilm reproduction of Klein's order form for rifle from A. Hidell, superimposed on envelop, postmarked March 12, 1963, addressed to Klein's, Dept. 358, 227 W. Washington Street, Chicago 6, Ill., with return address: A. Hidell. P.O. Box 2915, Dallas, Tex. Location:Archives. (CE 773: Cadigan's exhibit 1; JFK exhibit F-504.) Item# 31 DeMohrenschildt photograph of Oswald with rifle. On the back of the photograph is a handwritten notation reading "To my friend George from Lee Oswald 5/IV/63" and, in Russian, the statement "Copyright G de M." Also in Russian is writing which translated as "'Killer of Fascists--Ha-Ha-Ha!!" Obtained from George DeMohrenschildt after his death in 1977. HSCA Exhibits F-183 and F-184. Item# 33 June 15, 1963. Fair Play for Cuba Committee, New Orleans chapter, signed Lee H. Oswald, with A.J. Hidell signing as chapter president. Found in Oswald's wallet on the day of his arrest. Location: Archives. (JFK exhibit F-505.) Item# 54 Undated. Exemplar writing of Marina Oswald. including seven slips of paper containing the writing "A. J. Hidell." Location: Archives, HSCA. 232 (These are on pages 374 and 375 of Volume VIII of the HSCA Appendix Volumes) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=961 FINDINGS AND CONCLUSIONS OF JOSEPH P. MC NALLY The name, "A. J. Hidell" on the Fair Play for Cuba card (item 33) was examined and compared with the exemplar writings of Marina Oswald (item 54). It was determined that. the "A. Hidell" of the card (item 33) was written by Marina Oswald (as in item 54). The writing pattern of the signature on the card corresponds with that of the name "A. J. Hidell" as written by Marina Oswald on item 54. The Hidell signature in question is written with the same degree of writing skill as evinced by Marina Oswald. The slant, speed, proportions, et cetera, of the Hidell signature is matched in the writings of Marina Oswald. The design, form, and execution of stroke making up the individual letters of the Hidell signature in question (item 33) correspond to those of the letters in the writing of Marina Oswald (item 54). (47) He said the signature and writing on the back of Item# 31 is Oswald's. FINDINGS AND CONCLUSIONS OF DAVID J. PURTELL (70) The examiner is of the opinion that the person who executed the handwriting on item 54 wrote the name, "A. J. Hidell" on the Fair Play for Cuba Committee card (item 33). Item 29 was a Xerox copy made from a microfilm copy. Such a second generation copy has the defects of both processes. The signature on the back of Item# 31 is Oswald's. He did not say that the signature on the back of Item# 29 matches the signature on the back of Item# 31. He was not asked to compare the signatures on Item# 54 with the signatures on Item#'s 29 or 31. FINDINGS AND CONCLUSIONS OF CHARLES C. SCOTT (139) (Question. Although they purport to be the handwriting of one Hidell, were the postal money order (item 29) and the envelope addressed to Kleins (item 30) actually written by the person who wrote the signatures and other writings which purport to be Oswald's? (140) Opinion. The original of the money order (item 29) was examined and compared with the original writings purporting to be Oswald's. I am of the opinion that the fill-ins on the face of this money order are in the handwriting of the same person as the signatures and writings purporting to be Oswald's. (He used the term “fill ins”. He did not say signature.) The writing on the money order conforms with the writing purporting to be that of Oswald on the other documents in every material way, including writing movement and rhythm (L) as well as the pictorial aspects of form or design, proportions, alignment, slant, and connections. It is also significant that the writing on this money order shows no indication of being a mere copy or imitation of the writing purporting to be that of Oswald. This money order was submitted in the original, and hence it was possible to give it a complete microscopic examination and to study it under the infrared image converter. (141) What is not included in this batch however, is the Selective Service card in the name of Hidell. What was not done was to compare the signatures on the Hidell Selective Service card with the signature on the rifle's postal money order. Compare the signatures of the Hidell Selective Service Card on CE 796 (Which is a photograph of CE 795) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=708&tab=page with the Hidell Signature on the Hidell Postal Service Money Order on CE 788. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=703&tab=page The “Hunter For Fascists” photograph in the possession of George DeMohrenschildt CE 183 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=561&tab=page Letter from Lee Harvey Oswald to Marguerite Oswald, dated October 22, 1959, with envelope. (The year 1959 is obviously a mistake). He mentions Marina in the letter. He spells Marina's maiden name as Proosakova. The translator spells it Proosakava. In his letter he writes, “For my birthday, Marina sent me a gold and silver cup with the inscription, “To my Dear Husband on his birthday 18/X/61 very nice don't you think, Marina is on her vacation (sic) now, she is spending it with her aunt in the city of “KHARKOV” about 600 miles South East of here.... We both agreeded (sic) that she should go to a new enviroment (sic) on her vaction (sic)...” In the body of the letter, Lee Oswald uses the Americanized version of the date, October 22, 1959, but the gold and silver cup is inscribed with the Cryllic date of 18/X/61. This makes me think of the controversy over the DeMohrenschildt, “Hunter For Fascists” photograph. Also, in October, Lee and Marina had only been married for six months. Whey would they both agree that she should take her vacation 600 miles away? (My own thought is that with their astrological signs being squared, they really didn't get along. I wonder why they got married in the first place). CE 13 Letter from Lee Oswald to the Russian Embassy in Washington. He uses the Americanized version of the date, July 1, 1963. CE 14 Letter from Marina Oswald to the Russian Embassy. Uses the Cryllic version of the date, July 8, 1963 HSCA testimony of Marina Oswald (Porter) http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscamar3.htm Mr. SAWYER - Referring now to the writing on the reverse side of the picture that is up there on the board, what do those top two lines say in Russian? Can you tell me? Mrs. PORTER - You want me to translate it to English? Mr. SAWYER - Yes. Mrs. PORTER - "Hunter for the fascists." Mr. SAWYER - "Hunter for the fascists." Mrs. PORTER - Yes, "Ha, ha, ha," You know. Mr. SAWYER - But the writing before the "Ha, ha, ha" is "Hunter for the fascists" is that correct? Mrs. PORTER - Yes. Mr. SAWYER - Do you know whose writing it is in Russian up at the top, where it says "Hunter for fascists. Ha, ha, ha"? Mrs. PORTER - Well, some letters would be, look like I would write, but some not, so I am confused about that inscription in the back. Mr. SAWYER - You don't know whether that is your writing or not, or do you know it is not? You are not clear on it? Mrs. PORTER - Well, like if I look at first, you know, I think yes, it is my handwriting, until I start to analyze it, and it is not. Those letters "Ha, ha, ha," you know, the letter "Ha," that is not my way of writing this certain letter. Mrs. PORTER - I cannot identify it as Lee's writing. I cannot, I do not remember what Lee's handwriting looks like in English. I do not have anything in my hands to compare. Mr. SAWYER - So that when you can't, it is merely that you don't know whether it is or not. You don't have an opinion that it is not his handwriting. Mrs. PORTER - That is true. It is for experts to compare. Mr. FITHIAN Can't you testify to this committee that you did not indeed write that on that photograph? Mrs. PORTER - As I told you, I am just puzzled, and I am just as curious as you are. Mr. FITHIAN - But we will get later today to discussing the handwriting. I am simply asking you, cannot you at this point specifically testify to this committee that that is not your writing? Mrs. PORTER - Yesterday I was thinking after I left this room, I was thinking exactly the same thing as you did, or that had been written by a very old person, because sometimes people with the age, they don't have such a good grip, or a child. Mrs. PORTER - I cannot claim this as my handwriting. Mrs. PORTER - NO; I do not remember ever writing anything on the photograph. Mr. FITHIAN - And then looking at the words, isn't it your best judgment that you indeed did not write any of those words? Mrs. PORTER - I don't recall writing--anything. Mr. FITHIAN - I am not asking what you recall. I am asking you to look at it, and you know your handwriting over some years, and can't you simply flat out testify to this committee that you did not, that that is not your handwriting? Mrs. PORTER - Well, I told you yesterday my handwriting is not very consistent According to Google Translate, the Russian word for “of” is из https://translate.google.com/#en/ru/for A copy of the note on the back of the photograph can be seen here: http://www.politics.ie/forum/history/140255-could-lee-oswald-have-really-killed-jfk-79.html The Russian word, “за” is more correctly translated as the word, “for, per, over, behind, at, or after” This is from Answers.com in an article about George de Mohrenschildt: QUOTE http://www.answers.com/topic/george-de-mohrenschildt Another backyard photo Days later, on April 1 1977, Jeanne de Mohrenschildt gave the House Select Committee on Assassinations a photograph taken of Lee Harvey Oswald, by his wife Marina, standing in his Dallas backyard holding two newspapers and a rifle with a pistol on his hip. The existence of this photograph, while similar to others which had been found among Oswald's effects on November 23 1963, was previously unknown. Jeanne de Mohrenschildt said it had been kept privately for almost 14 years. On the back was written, "To my friend George from Lee Oswald, and the date “5/IV/63” [this is in Russian/European convention with day in front and month in Roman numerals, and means 5 April, 63] UNQUOTE I remember reading in the past about the date as it was written was supposed to have some significance, because it was written in the Cryllic fashion. Imagine my surprise when I ran across this little note in the CIA microfilm collection: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1 Steve Thomas George DeMohrenschildt interviewed by Edward Epstein for New York Magazine March 6, 1978. https://books.google.com/books?id=8eACAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=%22Hunter+of+Fascists%22&source=bl&ots=a7cuwxps2a&sig=DCtc-n07uCkvr2friSUsulEG4r8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQ8Yzf3bnZAhXEs1MKHSqkD4oQ6AEITzAK#v=onepage&q=%22Hunter%20of%20Fascists%22&f=false Epstein said DeMohrenschildt's last words to him were to try and get this photo from a Dallas Attorney named Pat Russell. The photos were taken on Sunday, March 31, 1963 The date on the back of the photograph is April 5th If the pictures were taken on March 31st, why was the picture inscribed April 5th? Why wait five days? http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/demohr_g.htm Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. In 1963, and the last time we saw them. Mr. JENNER. It was the last time? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. The very last time we saw them. Mr. JENNER. This was around Eastertime? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Around Eastertime. Mr. JENNER. In April? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. In April. Mr. JENNER. This was on Easter Sunday? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Easter day. I don't remember it was Easter Sunday. Mr. JENNER. Easter is always on Sunday. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; maybe it was the day before, the day after, but I think it was on the holiday. In 1963, Easter was on April 14th. Why didn't Lee give the photo to George on April 5th? http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/demohr_g.htm Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I did not know even that he was interested in weapons 'til the day--which probably you will ask me later on--Easter, I think, when my wife saw his gun. I didn't know he was interested. I didn't know he had the gun. I didn't know he was interested in shooting or hunting. I didn't know he was a good shot or never had any impression. Mr. JENNER. Mr. De Mohrenschildt, up to that moment, is it your testimony that you never knew and had no inkling whatsoever, that the Oswalds had a rifle or other weapon in their home? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Absolutely positive that personally I didn't know a damn thing about it, positive, neither did my wife. Marina Oswald's HSCA Deposition TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 20, 1977 http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo4/jfk12/marinade.htm Q. Do you have any recollection of him ever saying anything about these particular poses or the photographs? A. Let me turn back what strikes my memories, George de Mohrenschildt came--I am not trying to confuse you, you know, give you a false statement. I try to get my memory to go. What strikes me, I think I was surprised that he showed pictures to George de Mohrenschildt because I thought the rifle and the gun, first of all I was always against it so, if in my memory I remember being surprised at him showing pictures like that to George, so apparently I saw them at the apartment. Q. You remember him showing the pictures to George? A. Something strikes my memory that how dare he show pictures like that to a friend. Q. Would you think about it for a few moments and tell me if you can remember anything else about him showing either or both of these photographs to George de Mohrenschildt? A. I don't want to cast shadows on somebody that is maybe innocent and comments they maybe did not make. Q. I am not asking you to say anything good or bad about Mr. De Mohrenschildt, just simply tell me if you remember that particular incident, him showing these pictures to George de Mohrenschildt. A. It is so hard to dig in your memory 13 years ago. Q. Take your time. A. I vaguely remember because it still strikes my memory it surprised me that he showed them to him, so apparently it was at the apartment. Why would Lee inscribe a picture, and never give it to George? Why would he write, “To my friend George" in English, but use the Cryllic for of writing for the date? http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/demohr_g.htm Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. We gave her some records to study English--not mine, but my wife's and her daughter's records, of Shakespearian English, how to learn English, and they obviously still have those records. Mr. JENNER. Yes, they were found in Mrs. Paine's home. Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. We even gave them a phonograph, I think, a cheap phonograph, to play the records. Mr. JENNER. You gave them records? Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. How did the photograph wind up in storage? DeMohrenschildt, George. Lee Harvey Oswald as I Knew Him. Chapter 5. A Ghost Visits: Finding a Photograph. https://muse.jhu.edu/chapter/1523595 pp. 94-106 “Suddenly, she (Jeanne) rushed out of the warehouse with a crazy look on her face. “Look, look, what I found!” she shouted excitedly. She dragged me to a pile of open crates and I saw inside a slightly familiar looking green box. “What the hell is this?” I asked. “This is the box with the records I gave Marina before our departure,” she said.7 “How did they get there? We left them such a long time ago?” “I haven’t the slightest idea, I considered them lost.” Jeanne was short of words—this was so weird. “I had used them myself to learn English when I came to this country. They served me well. Then I loaned them to Marina long before our departure for Haiti.” “Remember how punctiliously8 honest Lee was,” I said. “He would not keep any of our belongings. But how the hell did the records get into this warehouse? Perhaps he remembered where we were planning to store our furniture? Or, possibly, maybe he had handed the package9 over to Glover, because he knew we had loaned him some of our furniture10 and it was Glover who finally added them to the rest of the stored boxes at the Southwest Warehouse?” This remains a mystery to this day, because we lost track of Everett, a good guy who apparently got so frightened by his very slight acquaintanceship with the “president’s assassin” that he moved somewhere without leaving a forwarding address.11 My wife began taking the albums out of the box and as she opened each of them to see if the records inside were broken or not, she shrieked12 almost hysterically. “Look, there is a picture of Lee Oswald here!” This was the same, very controversial picture of Lee, the one which appeared on the February 21, 1964, cover of the now-defunct Life magazine.” I am troubled by the sudden appearance of evidence in this case that were in Marina's possession that appear after the evidence has been seized and searched by the Dallas Police, e.g. the Walker note falling out of a cookbook, or a book of poems (I can't remember which); and the DeMohrenschildt rifle photograph falling out of a phonograph record that she was given. There is an old saying that goes, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Steve Thomas

Does anyone know where this comes from? It looks like some kind of appeal for communist membership or establishing his bona fides or something. I'm not disputing anything in it, it's just that I had never seen it before. This is CD 81, pp 479-488. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10483#relPageId=479&tab=page PS: In this "autobiography", he says he is including his tax returns from Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall. I thought that was a little odd. Steve Thomas

These Reservists include among others: Jack A. Crichton, George L. Whitmeyer, George Lumpkin ,Lester Logue. L. Robert Castorr. Colonel Frank M. (Maryan) "Brandy" Brandstetter Colonel George B. Church, Jr. (spent 16 days at sea with Oswald in 1959) Colonel Max Clark http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/demohr_g.htm “Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; he was that way, you know. Now, Max Clark naturally was not afraid of him because Max Clark himself is an athlete, an ex-colonel in the Air Force, I think. He just disliked him, and he said to hell with that fellow, because Lee was rude to him.” http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/clark_m.htm “Mr. CLARK - We first became aware of Oswald when we noticed in the newspaper in Fort Worth that Lee Oswald, a defector, had returned to Fort Worth with this Russian wife and very shortly after, I noticed it in the paper, possibly the same week, my wife received a phone call from Oswald stating that he was there and he understood she spoke Russian and her name had been given to him as a person speaking Russian from someone from the Texas Employment Commission and she said well, that that was true, that she had spoke some Russian and I was at my office and we would either call - or we would call him that weekend...” https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9836#relPageId=2&tab=page "Max Clark, employed by Convair, a Division of General Dynamics Corporation, as a Supervisor of Industrial Security and Investigation, requiring access to classified matter up to and including Top Secret." Steve Thomas

Paul, Thanks. One of the things I do know, is that Souetre couldn't have been mistaken for Roux, or vice versa. Roux was 23 or 24 years old and stood about 5'7". Souetre was 33 years old and stood about 6'1". If I had to bet, I'd bet it was Mertz that was in Dallas, not Souetre. Steve Thomas

"Though sources disagree, Vernon was probably named either for George Washington's Mount Vernon or for a traveling whiskey salesman named Vernon Brown. " Texas State Historical Association Texas Handbook Online https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/hev01 Steve Thomas

Ray, Thanks. The application for an extension of an identity card that I thought was fraudulent because it had so many mistakes on it? Well, that is his 1961 application. Look at the Russian version on pp 417-418. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&search="Harvey_Lee+Oswald"#relPageId=431&tab=page It's got stuff written across the face of it. Things are crossed out. He wrote down the number of his identity card wrong. He signed it with the wrong date. Maybe he didn't have a Russian translator helping him out this time like he did in Moscow. Steve Thomas

Sigh. I've got this wrong. This identity card application is January 1, 1962. He was surrendering his 1961 card. I'm going to go away now. Steve Thomas

The letters seem legitimate. Marguerite works in Crowell from June 1 to August 1, 1961. She went there from Fort Worth. On November 25, 1963 SA Jarell Davis interviewed Byron Phillips, Route 1, Vernon, TX. Mr. Phillips advised that Marguerite Oswald had worked for him as a housekeeper and a nurse for approximately six months from August or September, 1961 until February or March, 1962. http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/105-82555/105-82555%20Section%20016/105-16d.pdf p. 17. So, how to explain this? This is an application to extend Lee's non-resident alien identity card. It's dated January 1. Steve Thomas

Ron, On November 25, 1963 SA Jarrell Davis interviewed Mrs. Otis Grafford of the McAdams Ranch in Crowell, TX. Mrs. Grafford advised that “Mrs. Marguerite Claverie Oswald of Fort Worth, TX had worked for her and her husband for two months in June and July, 1961 as a housekeeper and cook. She added that she had employed Mrs. Oswald as a result of Mrs. Oswald answering an ad that she, Mrs. Grafford had placed in a Fort Worth, Texas newspaper.” http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/105-82555/105-82555%20Section%20016/105-16d.pdf p. 19. On November 25, 1963 SA Jarrell Davis interviewed Mr. Otis Grafford of the McAdams Ranch in Crowell, TX. Mr. Grafford advised “ that “Mrs. Marguerite Claverie Oswald had worked for him as a housekeeper and a cook between June 1, 1961 until August 1, 1961... He added he and his wife first became acquainted with Mrs. Oswald when she answered an ad they had placed in a Fort Worth, TX newspaper.” http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/105-82555/105-82555%20Section%20016/105-16d.pdf p. 21. WC testimony of SA Fain: It took about three weeks to find her. "I think, my recollection is, he (SA Davis) had difficulty locating her in that sparsely settled western country. I think he had to go to several different towns and finally located her." https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=34#relPageId=422&tab=page Steve Thomas

I was looking through a couple of things, and I picked up what I think is an anomaly. A couple of anomalies actually, but the one I concentrated on has to do with Vernon, Texas. Post by curtjester1 in alt.conspiracy.jfk newsgroup 5/10/08 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/BWTZckmwwBo/iF-_Vk2TTsQJ On June 3(1961) "Marguerite Oswald" left 1612 Hurley and left a forwarding address of "General Delivery, Cromwell, Texas." She began working for Otis Crafford, owner of McAdams Ranch, as a housekeeper and cook. On June 8, "Marguerite" wrote to Lee HARVEY Oswald in Russia, and listed her return address as Box 608 Cromwell, Texas. Her employment at the McAdams Ranch ended two months later, on Aug. 1, 1961 because she argued continuously with Otis Crafford's mother-in-law. "Marguerite" then moved to another ranch in Vernon, Texas owned by Mr. Phillips and was hired to care for the elderly parents of his and was photographed standing by her 1954 Buick in front of Vernon Bicycle Shop, and included the photo she wrote to her "son" in Minsk, Russia. SA Fain was not successful in locating "Marguerite" but was told by Robert Oswald that his "mother" was living in Vernon. On October 13, "Marguerite" was interviewed by SA Jarrell Davis in Vernon. (4H413-414) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=34#relPageId=422&tab=page CE 180 is an Undated letter from Lee Harvey Oswald to Mrs. M. Oswald, with envelope. “Dear Mother, Received your letter today and was surprised that you are working on a ranch. Where is Cromwell, Texas anyway? How is it you decilded (sic) to go there? Envelope is addressed to Mrs. M. Oswald in Box 608 Crowell, TX. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=555&tab=page CE 181 - Letter from Lee Harvey Oswald to Mrs. M. Oswald, dated August 3, 1961, with envelope. “I wrote Robert, and he was surprised that you are working at Cromwell, Texas, don't you write at all to each other?” Envelope is addressed to Mrs. M. Oswald Box 608 Cromwell, TX. Cromwell is crossed out and the words, “Try Crowell” is written in. This is crossed out and 1808 Eagle, Vernon is written in. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=557&tab=page There is no Cromwell, Texas. Crowell, Texas and Vernon, Texas are both about 195 miles northwest of Fort Worth. Crowell and Vernon are approximately 33 miles apart. CE 182 - Letter from Lee Harvey Oswald to Marguerite Oswald, dated October 2, 1961, with envelope. “I hope you are feeling well and enjoying your stay in Vernon. How is the weather in Fort Worth and Vernon now?” Envelope is addressed to Mrs. M. Oswald 1808 Eagle St. Apt. 3 Vernon, Texas. In August, Lee believes that his mother is in Cromwell (or Crowell), Texas. In October, he is asking how she is enjoying Vernon. CE 183 - Letter from Lee Harvey Oswald to Marguerite Oswald, dated October 22, 1959, with envelope. (The year 1959 is obviously a mistake). He mentions Marina in the letter. He spells Marina's maiden name as Proosakova. The translator spells it Proosakava. In his letter he writes, “For my birthday, Marina sent me a gold and silver cup with the inscription, “To my Dear Husband on his birthday 18/X/61 very nice don't you think, Marina is on her vacation (sic) now, she is spending it with her aunt in the city of “KHARKOV” about 600 miles South East of here.... We both agreeded (sic) that she should go to a new enviroment (sic) on her vaction (sic)...” In the body of the letter, Oswald uses the Americanized date of October 22, 1961, but the gold and silver cup is inscribed with the Russianized date of 18/X/61. This makes me think of the controversy over the DeMohrenschildt, “Hunter of Fascists” photograph. Also, in October, Lee and Marina had only been married for six months. Why would they both agree that she should take her vacation 600 miles away? (My own thought is that with their astrological signs being squared, they really didn't get along. I wonder why they got married in the first place). Is this a different aunt than the one in Leningrad? I won't go into all of the misspellings, but he writes that he would like Marina to learn English, and has bought some books for her, but she doesn't want to learn. She doesn't want to learn another language right now and is too busy at work anyway. The envelope is addressed to Mrs. M. Oswald 1808 Eagle St. Apt. 3 Vernon, Texas. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=564&tab=page (16H540) On January 4, 1960, Lee Harvey Oswald applied for a non-citizen alien identity card. In the space for the names of relatives living abroad, he listed his mother, Margaret living at 3124 W. 5th. St. in Fort Worth. No brother is listed. Four photographs are provided. On January 11, 1960 he submitted an application for employment at the Minsk Radio and TV plant. On his application, he wrote that his parents were dead, and he had no brothers or sisters. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&search=%22Harvey_Lee+Oswald%22#relPageId=441&tab=page On January 4, 1961 Lee Harvey Oswald applied for an non-citizen alien identity card. As part of his application he listed his mother as Margaret and his brother as Robert. “Margaret's” address is listed as P.O. Box 982 Vernon. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&search=%22Harvey_Lee+Oswald%22#relPageId=434&tab=page In August, Lee believes that his mother is in Cromwell (or Crowell), Texas. In October, he is asking how she is enjoying Vernon. How could he have listed his mother's address as Vernon in January when she didn't move there until August? On January 4, 1961 there is another application for a non-citizen alien identity card. I believe this is fraudulent. Only three photographs are provided. The passport number is blank, the names of relatives living abroad is blank, his 1960 identity card number given at the bottom is wrong, the name of the inspector is illegible. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&search=%22Harvey_Lee+Oswald%22#relPageId=429&tab=page On January 4, 1962 he applied for an extension of his non-citizen alien identity card. In the space for the names of relatives living abroad, this space is left blank. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1135&search=%22Harvey_Lee+Oswald%22#relPageId=430&tab=page In addition to the Vernon question, it doesn't look like Lee knew how to spell his mother's name. Steve Thomas

Paul, I hadn't done any research on this Lee Henry Oswald business before I posted what I did, but I find it was covered before. See the topic Lee Henry Oswald in the Education Forum here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/4023-lee-henry-oswald/ Steve Thomas

Here is something I don't understand. I have read that some people believe that Oswald in Mexico was part of Angelton's mole hunt. And I asked myself, "how would sending Oswald down to Mexico help catch a spy in the U.S. Government? The way you catch moles is to put a piece of bad information or a piece of good information in a place that has tightly controlled access. If you start seeing that information being shared or floated in KGB circles, you go back and see who had access to where that information was being stored. And I got thinking to thinking about that whole, "I can't extend my visa unless I used my real name" business. Am I right in assuming that there was only one Lee Henry Oswald file, or only one Lee Henry Oswald document, and that was kept in the part of the CIA under Angleton's control? If information started getting back to the Russians about a Lee Henry Oswald, would Angleton or CI/SIG or whatever it was have looked to see who accessed that file? Maybe the Lee Henry file wasn't a typo, but was deliberate Steve Thomas

David, re: the French espionage activities: I just happened to run across this April, 1968 Life Magazine article from Philippe Thyraud de Vosjoli. Fascinating stuff. "Martel" is, of course, Anatoli Golitsyn. After JFK's assassination. Vosjoli would flee to the Acapulco estate of Frank Brandstetter - another one of those blankety-blank colonels. https://books.google.ca/books?id=ylQEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA30#v=onepage&q&f=false Steve Thomas

Paz, Yes, that H.L. Hunt. Steve Thomas

Rats. I'm sorry. That's April 16th at the bottom of the first page. That must be something else entirely. Steve Thomas

David, Is it possible that the two sheets you provided here are for two different people? I ask that for two reasons: 1) On the first page, there is a different employee serial number that has been crossed out in the upper right hand corner. 2) On the first page, there is a date of January 16, in the bottom left hand corner, but a date of January 19 alongside the employee name on the second page. Did the first page actually belong to someone else originally? Steve Thomas PS: Is there a way to search files by employee ID number?

Paul, I don't know if it was Angleton per se. Didn't JFK send Bobby to talk to someone in the Russian government (I don't remember exactly who it was right now) and practically beg the Russian's help in stopping the Cuban Missile Crisis because he wasn't sure he could control his generals? And didn't JFK promote the movie "Seven Days in May" and had it shown in the White House? And didn't Eisenhower warn the American people about the rise of the military-industrial complex in 1961? https://youtu.be/rd8wwMFmCeE And didn't Truman later lament that the CIA had outstripped its original mandate and had become its own policy making arm? When it's all said and done, Steve Thomas

David, Thanks. I figured it was something like that. In that document I cited: https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/180-10144-10153.pdf I thought page 6 was interesting. 11/16/62 Index card re: Veciana "Indicates POA requested by Carl Hicks 12/29/61. Note: "Now being used by U.S. Army"." 11/30/62 Agency to Army ISR "Re; Info re Veciana disseminated to Army" Army ISR = Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance. https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-21-21/chap3.htm Not to detract from your "Mr. Bishop" thread, but you don't hear much about Veciana's work for the U.S. Army. Richard, thank you for your response. Take a look at that Archives.gov doc - that's the context I was using. Steve Thomas

Paz, The original list of 562 names had been provided by the French to the Italians. In September, 1962, Charles DeGaulle traveled to West Germany for a state visit. In advance of his visit the West German Security Services asked the French Surete for photographs of several chief men of the O.A.S. Among these were ex-colonels Goddard and Antoine Argoud; ex-captains Souetre, Sergent, Curutchet; and ex-senator Dumont. (see p. 5 of this document) http://www.50elysee.com/fileadmin/user_upload/AFP/ARCHIVE/4-DE_GAULLE-Allemagne-4-5.9.1962.pdf In the summer and early fall of 1962, I think the other Western European countries were concerned about DeGaulle being assassinated on their soil. Steve Thomas

David, You and me both. BTW, do you happen to know what POA stands for? According to that document, Veciana had been considered for, or used for a short time as a POA. I figure it's Potential something Asset. It's either that or Prisoner Of Azkaban . One or the other. Steve Thomas