Chris Cox

There's another El Indio. James, can you help? I made this error in a mail to you and Larry. This other El Indio was on a Masferrer sponsored raid in October 1960. Americans and Cubans were executed. Perhaps two Indios not two Morales.

James you're psychic. I was just reading a pdf I have (44 pages too long to post)on very subject tonight and wondered if Richards had done anything on the topic. weird to see post here. I was led to it by searching old OSS history involving David Bruce and Earl Brennan, from the Tosh posts earlier. Somehow Knights of Malta (Clare Luce was a Dame something btw) led to this subject. Go figure.

Tosh, My logical next question in the DR story, would be names like Browder, Bartone, Earl Brennan (esp Haiti) Esq. names like this possibly associated. If Paisley comes into play here in '57 (I was a mere tot, btw)how does Nuiry end up in Cuba? How does Paisley end up in Choptank or Chesapeake? His wife will have non of that suicide tripe. His son still asks questions. But for men like Paisley was Cuba just a war theatre switch or something more deeply connected to ongoing operations? You got me on the Lisa connection. Now I have homework. Thanks.

Absolutely, Tosh The Murphy/Galindez thing is sorely forgotten. Have notes and will retrace the history. It is covered well in a book which slips my mind, but not much else, little on internet. Have been on the Morgan/Spiritto angle that my friend Paul Wolf and another writer have been working on since 90s. Good counterrev. stuff. I will find link to this and post. Spiritto linked to OSS, operation Artichoke and Gaitan ops and poss. Murphy/Galindez. He comes up again with Morgan and JFK Assasination when his associate, John Wilson (Carlos) Hudson gives testimony about Ruby in Cuba. These men are in my father's history in Havana. Just another tiny thread in proverbial ball. I was a bit surprised to find Morgan added to the Atsugi bunch. I invited Ms. Sherry to join us here. She's busy as usual, but has much to add to this subject. When you can, if you can elaborate on Rorke and Eglin. I believe it came up in a Judyth post. Eglin was ONI? Best to all C

Just an aside on one part of your post, Shanet In one of Tosh's int'vus over years I remember reading a question put to him similar to your's. He answered the way anyone would. I think gist of reply: If it turned out he was unwittingly involved it was unfortunate (for lack of better word) A turn of events he could not singley control at any point in the event. Not having that interview in front of me, I'm taking license in my shoddy recall I too thought the same thing about the abort mission. I'm sure I asked Tosh if he felt he had flown in shooters or otherwise participants. IMO, he's been consistent in his view. If I remember correctly this was a mil operation Tosh was on, but he'll have to correct me. Hearing these recounts, from guys like Tosh, I've learned that missions or need to know operations carry risks when you only know your part. A shaky safety net. If there's a bonafide mission going on, it's going to go bad sometimes. My father (Paul Hughes Cuba '60), Geoffrey Sullivan and Alex Rorke ('63) and Cuesta and guys like Bayo Perez, too many to list, all have this in common. Unfortunately they can't tell us their stories. The strangest part of this flight to Redbird to me is that it carried Roselli. A man who later had something to tell the commission in DC and was prevented from doing so. We know Roselli used this protection before by drawing government into a testimony. That is important and confounding. The men who lived tend to bear the weight of all the others gone before them. Just my humblest of opinions Chris Cox

hahaha funny post, James missed the replay

Thanks Tosh, it does help and does lead to more questions. Perhaps this is why we talk about the assassination as one event from many, involving Cuba. I wonder if the JCS was really surprised at this secret accomodation plan. When they learned of it yet knew of Bobby's work with the exiles, how could they not feel "dissed" to put it mildly. And the Cubans who had received assistance find that LBJ shuts it them down. The FBI and CIA, their constant monitoring of the various operations, ongoing since they early days in CUba, and the ops in Haiti and Domincan Rep. ongoing. Dallas event became a great liability for these factions on the perifery. Then we have Warren who cries at the great lie and Russell who knew of the operations in Cuba, yet questions the official story. Hard to know where to start. Great input Tosh. Chris

Don't mean this as reply, not familiar with the mechanics yet on this forum Question for Tosh Tosh, do you think there were other events dealing with Cuba going on in Dallas that day you flew in Roselli? Like, maybe the assassination compromised other events. I wonder since LHO was near other "safehouse" types of places and perhaps those places had nothing to do with the assassination.

Tosh, could you tell us about your involvement in early Cuba gunrunning was to aid 26th of July and how the weapons were procurred? I think people don't realize how we were simultaneously for and against the revolutionary cause. Many things that came out in press (like the kidnapping of the workers in Cuba in '58, was it?)were not the real story. Also: The flying of Lisa Howard into Cuba, how many times did this occur? Did you come in contact with Wm. Attwood? I think this is important as it began the period of a secret accomodation plan that must have set the military on it's ear after their involvement in pre-Castro support and then post-Castro assassination attempts. Thanks Tosh.

wrong link this one about report on Castro Plots sheesh http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/documentos/200...g/m230502i.html

link is here: http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/documentos/200...g/m240502i.html Another good site is delacova's maybe James has that link handy.

I have that book, read it few years ago. Pathetic when the collection overtakes you, be careful- the books and files expand with this JFK Cuba stuff. Found this Cuban site last night. Fascinating in that it mentions this report then gives names and dates. Some it may be unrecognizable, but it's significant to the US Cuba secret war, covert ruckus, whatever you call it. Too much of Cuba is wrapped up in JFK, unfortunately. Very important that guys like Tosh are visiting forums and telling their stories. He knows a great deal of this early history in Cuba and Florida. There is much for researchers with an open mind. Sources all different, each need consideration. One problem I have with guys like Escalante is that he speaks from Cuban Intelligence. Great on one hand because you hear adversarial(?) detail. But a bit like taking Dulles' word on history. Just my grain of salt.

good to see you here, Tosh Hope this forum will be kinder and gentler to you, while you tell your story. I think there are better manners here. The debate tonight must seem a bit odd given the candidates. Hung on to many of the words then couldn't listen anymore and took dog for walk. Wink

Got it. For an interesting take on the report see this link http://www.robertscheer.com/1_natcolumn/97...umns/111197.htm Scheer has program on NPR called "Left Right and Center" He's the left

Is that the actual title, John? Also check out US State Dept electronic reading room (scroll down for CIA collection) http://foia.state.gov/SearchColls/Search.asp Juan Orta worked with June Cobb, under Castro Rev. Govt and both intertwined in intel ops Cuba and Mexico City lore. Just passing along in case you didn't know. June Cobb can be added to the list of "spooky and fascinating dames."

"Anti-Castro group leader dies Andrés Nazario Sargén, called the father of Alpha 66, a paramilitary group that opposed Fidel Castro, is dead at 88. Cuban flags were at half-staff in Little Havana's Plaza de la Cubanidad to honor of one of the staunchest anti-Castro exiles - the ''father'' of a paramilitary group that claims several dozen clandestine operations in Cuba - who died without seeing his dream of democracy on the communist island." ( BY ELAINE DE VALLE, edevalle@herald.com, 10/08/2004 03:01 AM EDT)

Hey James, Seems like a question for Gerry. Note to all: pick up copy of biography of Dickey Chapelle by Roberta Ostroff-- info here: http://members2.authorsguild.net/biowoman/work2.htm Apparently, there's a film in the werks involving of all people Team Anniston/Pitt. Who knows when we'll see it. Chapelle is another interesting woman who, like Howard, Killgalen (sp) the ol' ladies operating safe houses (names draw blank) found themselves in midst of some very deep stuff and unfortunately died off - stories incomplete.

Nathaniel, How did you come to write "I Was Castro's Prisoner" with Martino? How did you end up with these fellows in (places like Green Mansions- Miami Springs) Cuban operations? Did these opportunities present themselves to you by chance or did you persue/initiate them? Were you, like many others supportive of Castro and then not? Looking back on your life did you come to these events and people through military or journalistic associations? For instance, Andrew St. George and Dickey Chapelle seemed to have gotten involved in Cuba operations through earlier events - WWII, Mil.Intelligence operations in various theatres of overt/covert War, their experiences in Hungary for example. Have other q and a's regarding Red Star Over Cuba save for another post. Thanks for sharing this history with us here. Chris Cox daughter of US pilot lost in Cuban operations '60

Article in LA Times recently illustrates business as usual for the CIA and select retired military-connected individuals making big profits in war. It's easy to see the points made in Jame's post on Iran Contra figures and how defense industry shares its bounty. Met many "mercs" and heard the stories of weapons thefts, skiming profits on aircraft sales, drug resupply ops and (in case of Al Martin)outright securities fraud-all for the military ops and their hidden budgets. Thinking of men like Gens Walker and Lemay and the involvement in anti Communist crusade. Apple doesn't fall far. True history is there for the picking. Soldiers of Fortune-at what price? By Jonathan Turley The Los Angeles Times Thursday 16 September 2004 David A. Passaro was a mercenary working for the United States. A former Special Forces soldier, he was on the job for the American government in Afghanistan on June 19, 2003, when he was told to get information from a detainee named Abdul Wali. When Wali insisted that he knew nothing, Passaro allegedly beat him to death with a heavy metal flashlight. Now on trial for murder, Passaro is described in a recent criminal indictment as "a contractor working on behalf of the United States Central Intelligence Agency ... engaging in paramilitary activities." "Contractor" is the term used by the Defense Department to avoid more pejorative terms like "mercenary" to describe Washington's growing shadow army. While Passaro awaits trial in North Carolina, another self- described "contractor," Jonathan K. Idema, was convicted Wednesday in Afghanistan and sentenced to 10 years in a case involving charges of torture and other crimes. And in Iraq, 16 of 44 incidents of abuse at Abu Ghraib have been tied to private contractors. In all, there are about 20,000 military contractors currently working in Iraq for the U.S. government, according to the Washington Post; that's the equivalent of three army divisions of contractors. Soldiers-for-hire like Passaro are often employed (for as much as $200,000 a year) by former generals, who retired to run clandestine operations for profit and who have, in many cases, become millionaires from the secret budgets of the CIA and Defense Department. One such company alone, MPRI, has dozens of former generals and 10,000 former soldiers in the field, including many former members of the Special Forces. But privatization of the military comes at a price. In recent years, contractors have been linked to abuses ranging from ethnic cleansing operations in Croatia to the trafficking of sex slaves in Bosnia. They have been used to circumvent federal restrictions on the military. (For example, when Congress imposed a cap of 20,000 soldiers in Bosnia, the military simply hired 2,000 more private military contractors.) In Iraq, they're dying just like regular soldiers. To date, roughly 120 contractors have been killed there (although some were not involved in paramilitary activities). They include Vincent Foster, a former Marine sniper who was engaged in "skirmishes" in Iraq, and Scott Helvenston, who died guarding a convoy. The growing use of contractors and freelancers for paramilitary work has fueled an industry of mercenaries that was long in decline. Consider the strange case of Idema. On July 5, 2004, Afghan police entered the private prison run by him in Kabul. They reportedly found three men hanging from the ceiling while five others were found beaten and tied in a dark small room. Idema, also a former Special Forces member, claimed to have been working with the CIA and offered to supply proof that high-ranking U.S. officials supported his operation. Idema's case highlights the increasingly fluid definitions of soldiers, contractors and freelancers. While officials denied any contact with Idema's operation, the Defense Department recently acknowledged it held an Afghan man in custody for two months after Idema delivered him to U.S. forces. Likewise, officials now admit that Idema sent messages and faxes to top Pentagon officials. Idema also reportedly arranged and participated in raids on homes with NATO forces in Kabul. It is not clear whether Idema was actually employed by the U.S., but clearly he is part of a radically expanded market for soldiers of fortune, a market fueled by U.S. dollars. Unlike Passaro, Idema was conveniently left to Afghanistan. Not only was he denied the right to cross- examine witnesses, but the presiding judge, Abdul Baset Bakhtyari, dismissed his efforts to show his connections to "high-ranking military officials." As for Passaro, the government secured a federal court order in Raleigh, N.C., barring the public disclosure of many of the facts of his case, including details of his work for the CIA. There has never been a national debate on the use of mercenaries or on the rules governing their conduct. And, if some powerful forces in Washington have their way, there never will be. Washington's clandestine army reportedly receives billions and employs tens of thousands. It is a growing dependence that could come back to haunt us. Like many nations in history, we may find that it is far easier to hire mercenaries than to be rid of them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Turley is a law professor at George Washington University. __________________________________

Good stuff on this history, fellows. Smathers/Smith/Kilgallen relationship is interesting. Read Annie Geyer's excellent "Guerilla Prince" for her scholarly take on the history. James, the About Us part of that new site doesn't seem to say who the Us is-have I missed something? Thanks.

I sincerely doubt there's any truth to 10 million dollars leaving Cuba at a time when people fled in fear, shirts on backs and little else. Most felt that the situation with Castro was temporary, things would stabilize and many could return home. Not sure how this story came about but I've heard it's false, by those who knew Masferrer well. Interpen was one group but were many others involved in anti-Castro activities ('58 and onward) and the FBI and CIA played "cat and mouse." Some as in case with Diosdado raid in Homestead/Keys had prior info, made a show and eventually arms were returned and "biz as usual." The effort to interdict activities (sanctioned or not) were laughable to those participants I've interviewed over the years. And John makes a point about all the many vain efforts to remove Castro, indicate that someone (CIA? )wanted him there. The CIA and State Department (Embassy/Military Attaches in Cuba) were sympathetic to Castro at first. He was funded and helped and studied. It is the least known fact about Castro's triumph. There's something to this hunch. http://216.97.42.106/doc_351-375/doc0370.html This link takes you to Gordon Winslows Cuban Exile site. Interesting on subject of misc groups CIA interfaced with.

Been following this story from forum to forum, interesting. Hope it all works out and everyone gets what they want. Truth will out. As for the disbelief from some researchers about kids and CIA/operational work-- I heard from someone recently (CIA family member) who told me that their mother was recruited very young out of High School. CIA didn't require college degrees in it's earlier days. I recalled the Baker story. In fact, my own parents were quite young, barely legal, when they became involved. Heard of Military intel taking early recruits, from other sources. Age seems not important. In fact from an operational side (since covert ops often involves the illegal)it makes some sense. "Criminal" children have a built-in protection from prosecution. Expungement is available and privacy insured if there's a problem. Seems ingenious way to protect the operation. Children can be persuaded to keep secrets, feel important and find comfort in the mentoring. Minority status of any kind is a way to compell cooperation I would think. Another researcher once told me that CIA had a Gifted Minors program in early 50s where youngsters were said to bring a certain unfettered inventiveness into the assassination planning. Not sure what's been written on this. I know of many cases where teens were working the Cuban operations in some capacity. Families were involved -- why not a few gifted kids that could be entrusted to the Company?

Oops, meant to lurk, hit wrong key now have to toss in my two cents. Since we're on subject of money, pick up the paperback "Capitalism for Beginners" published 1980 or so. It helped me understand the American "experiment." IMVHO US mass media, consumerism's cohort, is where we get our popular candidates. This tripe media (not the noble Indy kind) has bred a "more for less mentality." We readily buy lots of things incl. messages. We get fat and elect fools who tell us it's all going to be okay between station breaks. Strange, given our radical history. I'm not sure at what point it went horribly wrong. Maybe taxation is a clue. Even today a passive North American citizenry driven to the brink of isolation has relative comfort. Amazingly we are now at war and it seemingly doesn't touch the masses. Thought we'd learned from Vietnam. This is Kerry's strongest suit, his antiwar convictions. Let's see if he campaigns on that or wimps out. I'm also hoping he'll pry open those JFK and Iran Contra files at the National Archives. There's a few things I want to look up-ha. The health of the country is judged by "middle class" standard. True, we've forgotten some basics-medical care for all, money for decent schools, a chicken in every pot. As usual, this is all on the table for coming elections. We'll see if candidates appeal to the ol' reliable Middle Class, promise more prosperity and if War will take a back seat as "Bush's War." Americans had almost forgotten the first Bush and Kerry doesn't even need to say the words "Iran Contra". Now, with VP Edwards, the race is almost too easy. Lastly; there are those wide spaces (States) between subcultures in the US to keep us in-fighting. Big insults are being hurled regularly at Californians and New Yorkers, as if WE are to blame! Seriously, American's do think and read (maybe slow learners) and November is going to be amazing. Should Bush be made to stay or should Kerry try to fix the mess?

It certainly looks as tho' Russell had something on LBJ and LBJ perhaps on Russell. This was Washington in the sixites, after all. Secrets were closely held. If indiscretions were as reported as they are today, the system may have collapsed under its own weight. The Cold War, Civil Rights, War and "duck and cover" were upon us. Nobody's 'cause was safe from a deal. I believe Russell was told by the President that he simply will vote in the affirmative, or their relationship would suffer. Russell's life was Washington and LBJ was the man in power now. A deal was cut and chips passed to LBJ. Listen to the "LBJ Tapes" for the actual conversation of this. It seems very like a man telling a friend: "Look, I'm the one in power and you must do this for me...like it or not, CR legislation will be passed and the US will change. I (LBJ) may as be the one. LBJ wrote his own history. It makes sense that LBJ would shrewdly pull rank, enforce loyalty. It was truely a measure of his power.