David G. Healy

excellent post.... thanks

DHealy

My Dear Mr. Miller,

You refer to me as an "irrational ... immoral ... joker."

You expect -- not without good cause, I regret to note -- that your attacks will be tolerated by the same moderators who take Jack to task for his use of "obscene" language.

You and yours no longer are of any interest to me whatsoever. God bless you.

Now go away.

Charles Drago

Charles, you're a drama seeker. To you, the moderators, or anyone else reading this message - if I ever wrote out the 'F' word on this forum, especially in lieu of there already being warnings of the use of improper foul language knowing that minors are using this site, then I expect to be viewed as an irrational - immoral joker who has no regard for the rights of others not to have to be subjected to such trailer trash low-brow gutter talk. And if then they see me trying to defend such behavior, then let them know that I have sunken even lower than previously witnessed. Does that mean I'm a poor excuse for a researcher - no. Does it mean that I'm a poor excuse for a human being - yes. (END OF STORY!)

Bill Miller

Murder and assassination is a nasty business -- Bill, I doubt you could find two people here who care what you post.... so, IF you have to ask the above question, I suggest you're here to promote an agenda, yes? [END OF STORY ] LMAO!

p.s. why the boldtype, drama perhaps?

From the New York Times: http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/...otbaum-case/?hp

Link wouldn't work for me, but glad anyway. Cryil is a great person and has been vital in the JFK [and other] case. Many may not know that he is currently undergoing an Inquisition not much removed from the 'Spanish' version. Is there a thread on that here we can link to, or need we update people on his situation?

Probably need to register with the Times in order to view article. Here are some alternative links:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10032007/news/.../ghoul_duel.htm

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2...ist_cyril_h.php

And a plug:

http://www.intoevidence.net/

According to that article you could not view:

Dr. Wecht’s record has not been unblemished. He resigned as medical examiner of Allegheny County in Pennsylvania last year, after federal authorities indicted him on charges of using county employees for his private pathology business. He pleaded not guilty; the case has not gone to trial.

thanks for the additional links, Miike....

DH

I have had this message from Chris Dolmar:

I administer 'The American Town Hall Political Research Forum.' : http://www.forumspring.com/americanpolitic/

I occasionally visit your forum as a reference in JFK Assassination research. Although this communique does not concern that, I am writing after reading the thread " The Future of this Forum": http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11141

I too, in my initial endeavor into forum creation & management, encountered the basic headaches you are currently addressing.

Freedom of Speech is vital not only as a basic Social Justice Right as humans, but for us, as Admins, to perpetuate the values of credibility and integrity of the forum(s) we maintain & administrate.

It is a mighty task to remain the neutral referee within forums of our kind. I regret to admit that I myself have made more than my fair share of biased decisions over the years due to allowing my emotions or views to creep into my 'neutral' judgment regarding a dispute or flame war sparked by forum members.

I devised a set of rules & titled it: "Forum Code of Conduct."

I vowed to stand by the Code of Conduct stipulations I instituted regarding violations by Any & All forum members:

The following Terms Of Engagement and Forum Code Of Conduct stipulations are in place to safeguard the purpose of The American Political Research Townhall Forum -- the free exchange of information and ideas in a cooperative and useful atmosphere, an environment which rarely exists nowadays in most other forums.

While these rules may seem draconian on the surface, it is through past & painful educated experience(s) in other political research forums that these rules have been devised. Real patriots, serious students, individual citizen members and political researchers, rest assured that you will be defended here. The forum code of conduct stipulations are designed to protect you from the most common forms of disruption sowed by the vast ' newsgroup xxxxx populace' that tirelessly roams the internet seeking new forum/msg board avenues from which to blaze their trails of unprovoked cyber assault & mayhem (See Also: "Internet Trolls").

Members are free to express their views and share the results/opinions of their individual research without being unduly criticized, ridiculed, or subjected to belligerent, personal attacks or threats by other members.

While members are free to criticize ideas, theories, research and methodologies -- they are NOT free to criticize each other personally.

Various facets of the topics discussed here may, from time to time, cause emotions to run high. In order to promote free expression in an emotional environment, it is recommended that members always be mindful of truth, honor, and respect, the primary values of this forum.

High-quality, constructive critical debate is encouraged and vital to our success as a forum, therefore in times of heated discussion(s), members are advised to confront the issue, not the person. In the unlikely event that a personal issue should arise between members, a moderator or administrator will work to help resolve the issue.

INSTANT DEATH POLICY

Obviously abusive disruption tactics exhibited here (Of which the Admins/Mods here ARE All Too familiar with) will not be tolerated and will simply result in the banning of the offending member(s). Any member(s) banned for violations of the aforementioned guidelines or the Forum Code of Conduct listed below will not be reinstated.

While forum members recognize the code of conduct, trolls don't. Thus . . .

Once again; To the trolls: -- be assured of the "instant death" policy. There will be no additional "warnings." ANY Failure to abide by AND adhere to the Forum Code Of Conduct below, AND the Terms Of Engagement listed above, whether by claimed "ignorance", or otherwise, and any blatant disruptive behavior will lead to instantly and permanently banned membership.

Please take a moment to review the Forum Code Of Conduct detailed below.

FORUM CODE OF CONDUCT

1] While real names are not required for membership, this is a "real name" environment. Handles, particularly well-known, credible handles are welcome here. But trolls, masquerading under various handles, including handles that appear to be real names, will be banned instantly upon detection.

2] All bots, spammers, pornographers, and flooders will be banned instantly upon detection. Registered members are entitled to know who their audience is.

3] A valid e-mail address is required for membership. E-mail addresses are validated as part of the registration process. You may get several response e-mails from the Administrators of this forum in order to validate your membership. In the event that an e-mail is determined to be non-functioning, or a fraud, the membership connected to that e-mail will be banned instantly and permanently. If you experience trouble with, or change, your e-mail, please PM an administrator so that your membership with the forum will not be jeopardized.

4] Ad hominem (personal) attacks MAY NOT be used against any other member. ("Flame free" zone.) Trolling will result in banned membership. All forms of personal attacks upon any forum member(s) ARE hereby designated as trolling, including but not limited to: the posting of offensive images directed at another member, repeated demands for "proof," the hijacking of forum threads, etc.

5] Upon detection, any use of the Private Messaging feature to harass a registered member will result in banned membership. Furthermore, cyber attacks of any kind, such as e-mail hijacking, stripped images, altered URL's, or any other attack, directed against any member, or the forum itself, will, upon detection, result in banned membership, up to and including criminal prosecution in the real world, of any member, non-member, or any other cabal of conspirators.

6] "Outing" another member's personal information, such as name, address, telephone number, e-mail, even if posted indirectly, will result in banned membership and immediate deletion of the post.

7] Once a member is banned, he or she is banned permanently.

8] Never publicly post PMs (Private Messages). If comments in a PM are relevant to research, such as one member requesting info from another, those comments may be paraphrased. When in doubt, ask a moderator or administrator.

9] The moderators and administrators may, from time to time, move a post to another forum in order to better the quality of the forum. A brief post explaining the move will be temporarily posted. Any questions, PM a moderator or an administrator.

10] The administrators may delete any post at any time for any reason. This is blanket protection against criminal attacks.

11] The administrators reserve the right to amend the forum rules and terms of engagement at any time for any reason. This is the administrators' loophole.

there is a price to pay when forum's need adverstising to exist-- generating traffic isn't easy. In general forum managers & advertiser'scould give a whit about the truth.....

Shouldn't depress you, presidential assassination and defense of a conspiracy therewith is ALWAYS a nasty business Mr. Walker, or haven't you heard?

I think its the nasty things being posted and how it violates forum rules that is the issue at hand.

Bill

I'm not addressing you, or do you find it necessary to speak for Mr. Walker and others that run this forum too?

I must say that I find Myra's post above an extraordinary, irrational and unfair attack on John Simkin. In fact if you wanted a better caricature of an irrational female diatribe ( I await the accusations of sexism with relish - I'll store it with my anti americanism ), you would have to indulge in a good day's march to find one.

Let us not forget here that John funds this forum which he runs with my help for no profit and on top of working full time. He also runs it very fairly. This time he has had enough. Jack White for too long has had carte blanche to traduce anyone with the temerity to hold an opposing view to his. This now has ended. Mr White can still post but the moderators and admins reserve the right to make sure he remains within our board rules..... this is not unreasonable.. live with it - it is not likely to change anytime soon.

I don't know which depresses more the fact that this garbage is being played out on a forum I helped set up with educational aims in mind, or the fact that I am bothering to respond to such meaningless crap at all

Shouldn't depress you, presidential assassination and defense of a conspiracy therewith is ALWAYS a nasty business Mr. Walker, or haven't you heard?

Peter, your previous post sounded like it was talking to me concerning the thread Jack started about me being some sort of an impostor/CIA agent/etc., etc.,

Bill

my old Lone Nut pals hanging (Miller and Lamson) around a thread about Jack White, wow such care...... LMAO!

have been a member of this forum for a number of years and used to

contribute to it regularly. After all, it's the "Education Forum", and I

am an educator. Over the past few months, however, I've done so less and

less. I check in now and then and encounter little gems like John S's

recent posting about Karl Brandt and the Nuremberg Trials, but more and

more, I find that there is little to interest me, and little, indeed,

that can even loosely be seen as being "educational". Mr White is quite

correct in claiming that the forum has been taken over -- but not by

imaginary "agents provocateurs". It's been taken over by people with

little or no interest in education but rather a rather morbid obsession

with conspiracy theories. I'm quite happy to believe that there was

something a bit odd about the investigation into JFK's assassination.

Perhaps there was even a conspiracy. But the conspiracies which have

been alluded to here over the past couple of years included:

No one ever went to the Moon

Darwin was a hoax

Hurricane Katerina was caused by a secret government program to divert

bad weather to black areas Various 1960s pop singers were assassinated

in a darkly hidden government conspiracy Someone is spraying deadly

chemicals over parts of the USA The tsunami was in fact caused by an

atomic device planted on the seabed by Mossad agents

911 was clearly a CIA/FBI plot

The recent terror attack in Scotland was the work of a secret government

agency etc, etc

One "researcher" commented with regard to the last "conspiracy" that the

fact that the government said Islamic terrorists were responsible was

evidence that they weren't because governments always lie...

Look through the new posts any day, and you'll see that the vast

majority refer to this sort of thing. Clearly this is absorbingly

interesting to some, but few "educators" who come across the forum via a

search engine or whatever will be greatly impressed...

Certainly, they wouldn't be impressed by the sort of silly name-calling

that's been happening recently. I would tend to agree with John's

suggestion that some of the people posting and constantly starting

polemical new threads have rather lost their marbles. Not really

surprising, though, considering the paranoia constantly to be noted in

their regular postings.

So, I think the forum would be greatly improved if Mr Drago's Pied Piper

campaign met with success and huge numbers of conspiracy theorists upped

and left for some congenial promised land where they can insult each

other to their hearts' content. If they want to stay, fine. As John has

made plain, he's spent a lot of time and money setting the forum up and

maintaining it despite fairly constant criticism by people like Mr

White. It's his bat and his ball. If he wants to let the miscreants

continue to post, then so be it. If he wants to put them on moderation,

fine. If he wants to chuck them out, that's entirely up to him (and

Andy, of course).

because you have no interest in conspiracy (in paricular the JFK assassination) one wonders why you post at this end of the forum, eh?

This is off-topic, so I don't want to belabor it.

[...]

Consider other forums: JFKResearch could have been a good place to have discussions, but it quickly degenerated into a cult who discouraged dissent with browbeating; when the beaten pushed back, they were expelled. Now the forum has ceased to be a player in this field.

[...]

nonsense, if your not aware of the 10 year history of JFKResearch, you should educate yourself BEFORE you insert foot into mouth.... even ole Len Colby can be seen at JFKResearch these day's, fancy that!

I stand by what I said: JFKR DID have a system of favorites and unfavorites. I witnessed several groundswells to ban members there. Rich decided to charge users to utilize the forum, and I and others dropped off due to both the charges and the stifling political correctness. Now all the good discussion goes on here - one hears almost nothing from JFKR these days. JFKR was a good idea that failed to work well, and one of the reasons was its tendency to stifle dissent.

One who does not follow the JFKR line needs to be "educated?"

as I said: "nonsense, if your not aware of the 10 year history of JFKResearch, you should educate yourself BEFORE you insert foot into mouth....

Let us pray that our moderators are vertically challenged.

Charles, I really don't care one way or the other how the people who pay to have this forum wish to run their business. But I must say that if one wishes to be taken seriously, then one should follow-up on what they have said. You called for 'no more post' and since that time in this thread` alone ... you have posted four more additional times.

I read this saying not long ago that may offer some inspiration here and it goes like this ...

"Say what you mean, but mean what you say. Just don't say it mean."

Bill Miller

there's more than few around here that mean EXACTLY what they say, it may be you that has a problem with the *saying*, eh?

[...]

Consider other forums: JFKResearch could have been a good place to have discussions, but it quickly degenerated into a cult who discouraged dissent with browbeating; when the beaten pushed back, they were expelled. Now the forum has ceased to be a player in this field.

[...]

nonsense, if your not aware of the 10 year history of JFKResearch, you should educate yourself BEFORE you insert foot into mouth.... even ole Len Colby can be seen at JFKResearch these day's, fancy that!

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=af07

Enemies of Truth UNITE!

now THAT is something you can go after... you'll need all your appliance photog skills in getting to the bottom of this one, lmao......

To Whom It May Concern:

Jack White is a hero to all who struggle for justice and truth for John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

That Jack often finds it difficult to control his passions should be appreciated as being indicative of his courage and his commitment to that cause.

Treating with collegiality the agents provocateurs who, in the service of the enemies of truth and justice, stalk these cyber pages is an unforgiveable offense.

Apparently the commisars of this Forum would sooner publish politely phrased attacks on the truth than emotionally phrased defenses of the truth.

Jack deserves emeritus status -- and the attendant privileges derived therefrom -- on the JFK Forum.

Absent Jack's free and unfettered access here, let men and women of good conscience boycott the JFK Forum.

Who stands with me in his defense?

Charles Drago

over here.....

David G. Healy

Oh for gods sakes, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Your posts are some of the most vile on this forum and you are calling others out? I can't even begin to count the number of your posts calling members facists, nazis etc, Herr whomever.

Perhaps you can't even begin to count them because they never happened. Talk about one who shouldn't speak on this topic.....only wish they'd allow a poll of who agrees with your characterization, Mr Politeness.

either you are the one uniformed or you were just shining your hob nail boots and ironing your brownshirt....more upon my return Herr Ulman

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...s&pid=77728

Lamson, you hate all but money and authority...I don't even read your posts....to get out of the impending fascism I don't try to convert a fascist....you don't work here or on JFK posts toward anything...you'd just like everyone to be a couch potato, drink their beer, eat their junkfood and watch the TV circus - AND NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY OR Halliburton etc.....if this is all such bull then why are you here?!..I think because you don't think it is bull**** - and you or those who you 'salute' are worried about it.....last you'll get a direct reply from me Herr Lamson. I don't like brown as a color for shirts, nor people who don't try to make the world a better place and who worship the powerful and greed, and don't help those in need and without power....and try to turn those seeking the truth away from the scent. Heil and farewell!

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...s&pid=72225

I invite anyone to read the entire threads. To see that Lamson was calling me Lemming, others repeatedly loosers and baiting everyone. If this forum followed its own rules he would have long ago been reprimanded for his behavior and disregard for most humans, both on and off the Forum. Yes, he got me upset and that was a single not very tasteful post on my part...but look what led to it....and I invite anyone not familiar with

Len's techniques to research them as well.

Both these persons are actually IMO trying to stir up just the very event we hav

here.

To provoke - the work of provocateurs.

Sad attempt to deflect Peter. The issue here is your false statement that you did not say these things. You clearly did.

And yes I suggest everyone go back and read the threads. Lemkin is not giving the correct facts again. In BOTH threads Lemkin started the provocations and vile name calling. BOTH THREADS! I'm not blameless, I did call him Lemming, but it was in REPLY to his vile post to me. It is NOT as he is now claiming. In fact its the exact opposite.

Lemkin, we can go back even further in these past threads to see more of your provocation. Shall we? You may not want to go there because your attempt to look pristine is sure to fail. Shall we search further for the real truth?

whatever happened to the JFK assassination discussion.....? We know Lone Nutter's can't debate the evidence, testimony and exhibits. Known that for 35 years, since Mark Lane's Rush to Judgement.... their being attacked at every position of WCR strength --

So, what's the Lone Nutter alternative? "To provoke - the work of provocateurs." sounds good to me! Where's Colby did he ever convince Zavada that he Len Colby was Roland Zavada's rep to this board (and not Tink Thompson's shill)

JFK? Uh thats in another forum David.

right next to daBugliosi's Reclaiming Camelot er, History forum, eh?

Oh for gods sakes, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Your posts are some of the most vile on this forum and you are calling others out? I can't even begin to count the number of your posts calling members facists, nazis etc, Herr whomever.

Perhaps you can't even begin to count them because they never happened. Talk about one who shouldn't speak on this topic.....only wish they'd allow a poll of who agrees with your characterization, Mr Politeness.

either you are the one uniformed or you were just shining your hob nail boots and ironing your brownshirt....more upon my return Herr Ulman

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...s&pid=77728

Lamson, you hate all but money and authority...I don't even read your posts....to get out of the impending fascism I don't try to convert a fascist....you don't work here or on JFK posts toward anything...you'd just like everyone to be a couch potato, drink their beer, eat their junkfood and watch the TV circus - AND NOT QUESTION AUTHORITY OR Halliburton etc.....if this is all such bull then why are you here?!..I think because you don't think it is bull**** - and you or those who you 'salute' are worried about it.....last you'll get a direct reply from me Herr Lamson. I don't like brown as a color for shirts, nor people who don't try to make the world a better place and who worship the powerful and greed, and don't help those in need and without power....and try to turn those seeking the truth away from the scent. Heil and farewell!

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...s&pid=72225

I invite anyone to read the entire threads. To see that Lamson was calling me Lemming, others repeatedly loosers and baiting everyone. If this forum followed its own rules he would have long ago been reprimanded for his behavior and disregard for most humans, both on and off the Forum. Yes, he got me upset and that was a single not very tasteful post on my part...but look what led to it....and I invite anyone not familiar with

Len's techniques to research them as well.

Both these persons are actually IMO trying to stir up just the very event we hav

here.

To provoke - the work of provocateurs.

Sad attempt to deflect Peter. The issue here is your false statement that you did not say these things. You clearly did.

And yes I suggest everyone go back and read the threads. Lemkin is not giving the correct facts again. In BOTH threads Lemkin started the provocations and vile name calling. BOTH THREADS! I'm not blameless, I did call him Lemming, but it was in REPLY to his vile post to me. It is NOT as he is now claiming. In fact its the exact opposite.

Lemkin, we can go back even further in these past threads to see more of your provocation. Shall we? You may not want to go there because your attempt to look pristine is sure to fail. Shall we search further for the real truth?

whatever happened to the JFK assassination discussion.....? We know Lone Nutter's can't debate the evidence, testimony and exhibits. Known that for 35 years, since Mark Lane's Rush to Judgement.... their being attacked at every position of WCR strength --

So, what's the Lone Nutter alternative? "To provoke - the work of provocateurs." sounds good to me! Where's Colby did he ever convince Zavada that he Len Colby was Roland Zavada's rep to this board (and not Tink Thompson's shill)

Friends -- and Others,

They're winning.

Unless ...

If we don't engage in a direct exchange, they huff and puff and choke on their own venom.

Their sounds and furies are performed to empty seats.

We have the most serious business imaginable to conduct. All of this is an immense waste of resources.

Unless ... Let us use them as the enemy attempts to use us: Listen carefully (not respectfully) and attempt to gauge by their behaviors the larger perceptions and fears and goals (of their masters).

Why not create what in political campaigns is called an "opposition research" file on these characters? Copy their posts to a thread so named -- and from which they are banned -- and invite informed analyses of the portions of the larger picture they inadvertently reveal.

For us, it's win/win.

Can we do this? Should we?

Charles Drago

Charles,

I have a great deal of respect for you, and am asking with sincerity:

Why would you want them banned from a thread w/regard to their beliefs, leaving people who disagree the entitlement of posting? Is not the purpose of a public forum a back and forth debate?

Who is doing the "informed analysis"-- the parameters of such a thread would allow anyone to post there who wasn't "them"

As to your statement that "they" are winning I submit to you "they" did not start this thread, nor the one before. Their philosophy(ies) are now one of the major discussions on the PC thread. Perhaps this is what you are saying--that it should not be a personal topic, but done as a group effort, and bringing this into the limelight is not conducive to discrediting their claims.

I think that if you truly want to win, and others as well, that it would be paramount to your quest to "know your enemy". You then have his MO, and can respond or choose not to. The less he is allowed to speak, the less you learn about him.

I agree with you that a non response would stop any further progress in an discussion, but to educate others, this may not be the best way..

Remember, that this is a largely read forum, and its purpose is back and forth debate. It's not just for us, which is why it is critical for both sides to participate.

Someone may counter with "but he is a disinfo agent, blah blah blah." My question is then 'Does everyone who disagrees with the person presenting the argument automatically become a disinfo agent merely because they disagree with the presenter?" You can say "No", but I say from what I've seen here, that many would says "Yes". If our opponent doesn't agree, we can attempt to discredit him personally and get a group of fellow discrediters behind us, and actually, I ask you---who really looks bad when this occurs?

Kathy

Charles has made it abundantly clear that he is one the people on this forum who only pays lip service to the free exchange of ideas, strongly voiced opposing view points should be discouraged.

You're sounding liker the forum's chief Lone Nut/WCR supporting whiner to me...

David,

You cited Citizen Kane as a movie with no obvious defects in it's optical special effects. I'm about to pick it up from my local video store. What scenes in that movie havecompositing anywhere near as sophisticated as what was allegedly done to the Z-film? Let me know.

I'll have to give back Monday but will probably watch it tomorrow night (early evening your time)

Len

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...c=5959&st=0

Post #8

David Healy: Of course there's NO proof of film alteration, something I've stated for years

btw, those url's you post.....they NEVER work, what's up with THAT?

ROTFLMFAO! You can prove otherwise? That being the film is not altered? How do you do THAT? Curious minds would like to know....So, by all means, show us your proof!

All these years and STILL no DP seamless film comparison, waz-up, Dude?

Ya think ole Lenny got those Citizen Kane optical film effects scenes figured out? Returned it on time?

'Kathy Beckett' wrote:

[...]

I am a CT as well. I love(d) President Kennedy, and even thinking about him and what he represented, moves me to tears. Our loss, as a nation, and further of the entire world, of the influence and thoughts of this great man carries on to today, and it is heartbreaking to think what we could've been... What a loss!!!

And yes, I want it solved....

BUT

I believe Mr. Simkin started this Forum to allow all the freedom to debate, and not be quashed for speaking one's mind. I am 100% behind him on this. For allowing one side to have a venue, and not the other, is not freedom.

please, Kathy! C. Drago is correct - A war (pr, disinfo or otherwise) has many faces, none pretty. This JFK assassination related forum, and it's popularity, wasn't built on being kind to alleged "nice" WCR guys...

I'm not comfortable with the efforts to silence Messrs. Colby and Gratz.

Charles, who is trying to do that?

Are they and their posts fair game for our best efforts at analysis? Absolutely.

I respectfully disagree. Save your best efforts for bigger game.

amen!

The NPIC got the Zapruder film sometime during the weekend (Nov 23-24, quite possibly late night, Friday 11/22).

Based on Doug Horne's excellent work/interviews of NPIC personnel, complete with NPIC notes, work-timing sheets and Z-frame numbering. A question comes to mind.

If the FBI received Zapruder's camera for testing around December 13th, how then, did the NPIC know (that Nov-22nd thru 24th weekend) that the Zapruder film ran at 18.3 frames a second? After all, the FBI determined Zapruder's camera ran at 18.3fps some 3+ weeks later.

FALSE, Bill. See post 23 (page from TGZFH) where Rich describes the three

occasions that he saw the other film...twice at U of Maryland and once while

in the air force in a classified job. And you are wrong about the memories

matching:

1. All reported SEEING THE LIMO TURN THE CORNER

2. All reported SEEING THE LIMO STOP

3. Plus other less important points.

Check the facts before posting misinformation.

Jack

Let DellaRosa make the entire "other film" archive seen by all and I'll help your memory along. All reported seeing the limo turn the corner? No kidding?? (sigh~) I didn't know anyone said the limo didn't turn the corner, but I remember some back and forth posting where one person who claimed to see the 'other film' ... his tale had Connally reacting to being shot during that turn. Some who claimed to see the 'other film' had given a longer stopping time for the limo than other alleged witnesses to this 'other film'. In fact, I responded 'How many other films can there be with so many variations being discussed?' I remember thinking that it was funny to see how those who immediately claim alteration when a witness says something they believe doesn't jive with the Zfilm and yet the alleged 'other film' witnesses had several various versions on certain aspects of the shooting going on and those same individuals considered all the claims being made to be support of them all seeing the same 'other film'. I bet DellaRosa left that part out of his recollection.

Speaking of the past, whatever happened to seamless film comparison's of Dealey Plaza. Seems your were going to undertake that project about 6 years ago, eh? Josiah Thompson, Gary Mack, Dave Wimp and the rest of the merry band non film/photo-alteration fanatics.... Where are they now? Hell, where is the seamless film comparison?

LOL even before seeing Alan’s post my impression was “indistinguishable blob, Rorschach test Photo analyst?, Yeah right”

Lost? Make a left instead of a right at the Kennedy Space Center...

Any luck wrestling Roland Zavada to a Z-film debate, yet? I'm patiently waiting..... I must of been taken off of Josiah Thompson and the Gang's email list, absolutely no news for 2 years, can you imagine that...

Do I have your attention David?

I'm back and YES Tom, you have my attention....

Thomas wrote:

David;

By now, you should be fully aware of the fact that many, many mistakes were made on the part of those of the WC who decided to play this little game of "hide the facts".

dgh: well actually I felt something was afoot before I started with the Zapruder film

And, although they were quite adept at this little game, they also made major blunders, of which a few have been pointed out.

dgh: and yes, you've done a job job doing same

So!

As soon as you cease to worry about the WHY? of these actions, as well as also cease to worry about exactly where shots may or may not have been fired from, and thereafter concentrate strictly on the evidence at hand, then you just may find the answers which you are looking for.

dgh: my original interest in the Z-film stemmed from a question posed to me many moons ago. Could one state that the technology, equipment, know-how, personnel and TIME was available to alter the alledged in-camera Zapruder 8mm film? I've answered to my satisfaction the answer is, YES!

Personally, were I attempting to prove some form of alteration to the Z-film, then I would concentrate on it and the other photographic evidence.

dgh: discussing and proving are obviously two different things.... I doubt one will prove the Z-film was altered. To do so would require full examination and forensic testing of the alleged in-camera Zapruder film currently housed at NARA. That won't happen.

The preservers of Dealey Plaza film -photo historical record have too much to lose if testing like above were performed. The pall cast over the film would create a furor, much akin to exhuming JFK's body. WCR supporters look upon the film as an icon, not a piece of evidence needing to be dissected

As, not unlike most of the other evidence, mistakes were made!

dgh: AGREED

However! One is most unlikely to find any potential mistakes if they are off in the forest hunting unicorns.

dgh: discussion-debate of Z-film alteration [or lack thereof] defines only a symptom of a much larger problem, a deflection if you will, AWAY from Lee Harvey Oswald....

I've always believed in Santa Claus -- Hell, I am Santa Claus, as are you, I suspect!

David

Tom

P.S. Most persons, after having been lead into the forest multiple times, only to become lost and abandoned each time, resolve that if they are going to become lost anyway, that they may as well lose themselves and cease to follow those who for whatever reason, always get them lost and in actuallity, tend to lead them farther and farther from the simple facts and truths.

Glad to see you're still here and posting, Shanet. KUTGW!

David Healy