Roger DeLaria
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Posts posted by Roger DeLaria
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I believe that Hunt stopped publicly supporting Walker, as did many others, after the riots, although I could be mistaken. Did he still support Walker privately? I don't know. It seemed many people walked away from Walker.
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18 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:
Interesting Roger. The "Best man", however, referred to McCord. The Air Force "Colonel" as Landsdale is an interesting suggestion, indeed!.
Yeah, I just noticed that. I think I conflated the 2. I meant the Air Force Colonel as Lansdale. Ooops!
Lansdale was definitely Dulles' go-to guy.
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1 hour ago, Michael Clark said:
Brilliant, "you're wrong, because I am right" lol
And the CIA is nowhere to be seen in Paul Trejo's fiction about LHO's sheep-dipping in NOLA.
"McCord worked for the Central Intelligence Agency, ultimately ascending to a GS-15 position in the Agency's Office of Security. For a period of time, he was in charge of physical security at the Agency's Langley headquarters; according to Russ Baker, then-Director of Central Intelligence Allen Dulles once introduced McCord to an Air Force colonel as "the best man we have".[5] In 1961, and under his (James McCord jr.'s) direction, a counter-intelligence program was launched against the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.[6"
I wonder if "the best man we have", according to Dulles, was Lansdale. He wore an Air Force uniform, at least at that point I think he did.
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On 11/9/2017 at 10:31 PM, Joe Bauer said:
Stephen King's JFK TV mini-series sounded as if it had a different and interesting take of a time traveler going back to the scene of the crime. I didn't see it so I don't know if it worked.
I got this from my local library earlier this year. It was well done and entertaining, but King took a Oswald lone nut stance, so as far as the assassination goes, it was worthless.
I've always liked Executive Action, pretty good for it's time, even now I think.
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Speaking of right wing characters, I recently picked up a copy of Ted Dealey's "Diaper Days Of Dallas". Should be an interesting read. Dealey certainly didn't care for Kennedy. His paper was a major source of much anti-JFK press at the time. He had some strong words for JFK at a White House luncheon in front of many other area leaders, which I think lost Ted some support.
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7 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:
Just curious.
How many members here have seen the Rob Reiner LBJ film?
How many plan to?
How many don't plan to see it?
Any commentary by those who have seen the film would be appreciated.
Questions to those who see the film.
Do you think the film is worthy in a true and honest historical perspective way?
Especially in the context of informing younger generations about the most important aspects of LBJ and his life accomplishments?
Did the film deal with 11,22,1963 in anyway more than as just a starting point?
I haven't seen the film yet, but want to. I'll wait until it hits blu-ray and will get it from the library. I don't really go to the theatre anymore. I recently got All The Way from the library. Bryan Cranston did a good LBJ, I think.
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14 hours ago, Jason Ward said:
I don't see Ruby and Oswald as friends because birds of a feather flock together and birds of a different feather flock their separate ways - but anyway it doesn't matter. You may still be right about the connections between Masen, et al., but I see a lot of CTers here trying desperately to connect dots. Why does it matter? They don't need to be friendly to be involved in the killing.
One of the places where me and Paul Trejo disagree slightly is on the many appearances of Oswald; at gun ranges and car dealers in particular. My reading of the evidence is that there are too many reports dated prior to the assassination for them all to be cases of mistaken the identity. Reports AFTER the assassination are irrelevant - these are just as worthless as the claims AFTER the assassination that Dinkin predicted anything at all about JFK.
There are too many reports before 22 Nov 63 for any explanation other than someone else using Oswald's identity, IMO. One of the most intriguing footprints of Oswald is below....Oswald's visit to Knoxville. AFAIK no one has a good explanation for this tidbit:
Jason
I agree with you about an Oswald/Ruby relationship. I believe they knew each other but didn't have to be friendly, it doesn't really matter for the killing. I feel the same way about the Oswald sightings before the assassination. Too many to be mistaken, one maybe I could buy. The knoxville visit is intriguing, I've never seen that before. I think the USSR bit might have been to draw attention, it looks almost to be an afterthought, like its out of place in a way. I wonder if this was an attempt to be a tie to his time in the Soviet Union where he was to give secrets to the USSR. Sheepdipping, part of an operation?
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I also just picked up a copy of Dr. Walt Brown's "Trachery In Dallas" that Paul T. spoke well of. Eventually I'll get to that. Too many things to do.
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I remember reading but can't remember where, someone referring to LBJ as a "nazi of the worst order". There was his public self, and then the way he really was, apparently. Ties between LBJ and Walker would be real interesting.
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On 10/26/2017 at 10:13 PM, Jason Ward said:
Lots and lots of chaff.
Because of a few honest souls such as yourself who study and read before they speak - I've posted what seems interesting at first glance from the day's document release. Most of it is simply expanded versions of what we already have, but there are a few kernels of totally new information.
I'd ask you to look at the Masen references above and in the book I cite below. Thoughts?
goodnight
Jason
PS - I'll try to order that item you mentioned to me from the inter-library loan system tomorrow.
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For Paul Trejo,
maybe we need to be talking a bit more about what Harrison Livingstone has to say?
Livingstone, Harrison E. The Radical Right and the Murder of JFK. Trafford Publishing; Victoria: 2004. p. 117
snippet available free to the public here:
Thomas Masen involved with Cuban gun-running. I understood Jack Ruby was involved with Cuban gun operations. against Batista, then Castro. Did Jack Ruby and Masen cross paths? Ruby and Oswald apparently know each other. Oswald gets impersonated here and there. Masen, part of Walker's entourage, looks like Oswald. A few degrees of separation? Hmmm.... Masen seems like he knows something. Maybe, maybe not?
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Jason,
I'm just starting Walt Brown's "The People vs. Lee Harvey Oswald." Looks to be an interesting read.
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3 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:
95% of the documents are utter crap.
A lot of it is memos about other memos and about correcting file numbers and about following up on irrelevant housekeeping tasks; and, worst of all, a lot of it is the mindless obsession with Cubans. Anyone who argues the CIA or FBI are anything but standard overbloated government bureaucracies has never looked at the evidence in bulk. They don't do anything unless it's contemplated for months, documented 100 different ways, adorned with numerous file numbers and cross-headings, and largely repetitive because they forgot what they discussed 4 months ago when they first started discussing a topic. Most of it is a big pile of dead tree matter that only the mindset of US government civil servants would or could create.
But, here and there, is a sliver of interest; and, very occasionally, there is a truly dynamite find.
Jason
About as relevant as umpteen questions regarding Jack Ruby's mother's dental records. Bloat the files. Wheat vs. chaff.
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On 10/25/2017 at 7:30 PM, James DiEugenio said:
Ron just hit on something key.
I did a show today with Moscow TV and i noted just one page of one spreadsheet with 35 documents listed: 22 of them were described as illegible. And when it says illegible, it is really illegible, that is you cannot see anything on it, just a blur. You could not even put it back together with optical recognition since there is nothing to recognize. Now two of those deal with ZR Rifle and one with JM Wave.
Question: What is the point of declassifying something you cannot read? It might as well stay declassified. Have any of our pundits like Dallek or Shenon or Posner noted this on TV? Not as far as I know. This is why the MSM has become such a joke.
Jim,
When is your interview with NPR going to be on? I'm very interested in hearing that.
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On 10/25/2017 at 7:04 PM, Jason Ward said:
Paul,
In my view perhaps the best way to understand J Edgar Hoover's role is by reading the communications of J Edgar Hoover. They are voluminous.
Most CTers pick and choose their favorite person or keyword and extract the evidence they want, without regard for the holistic view of Hoover's evident thought processes. IMO you have to read the FBI communications from start to finish, in order. Otherwise one's own biases are creeping in to the evidence observed if you start picking out keywords, very specific dates, locations, and so forth. I say the bare minimum timeframe is a week - this is way too low, but by at least looking at 7 straight days of Hoover's communications, you get an insight into what was important, less important, a worry, an obsession, etc., at least for that week.
Once you look at FBI communications in consecutive order, in entirety, for a defined time period, a truer view of Hoover's objectives become clear, at least insofar as primary source evidence allows.
If you read the the FBI internal communication traffic from mid November 1963, through the assassination, and immediately thereafter, the Radical Right is overhwhelmingly the boiling hot threat on Hoover's mind.
The CPUSA is almost shut out of view during this critical period. On d-day and for about the first 72 hours of organized panic thereafter, the FBI is laser focused on one topic and one topic alone - finding the known right wing extremists and documenting their whereabouts. Hoover demands this. Dozens of FBI field offices act on their own initiatve and after JFK is shot start an emergency program of forcing the vast network of Confidential Informants to 1. report immediately, and 2. report immediately on the local Radical Right. From the Carolinas across to Texas this is largely a 3 pronged flash intelliegence drive against the KKK, John Birch Society, and the Minuteman. In 100s of places the membership of these 3 groups overlap substantially. Field offices start reporting to Hoover where their local right wingers were, what the CIs had heard about the right wingers, and who is unaccountable.
SUDDENLY
This stops.
Suddenly, the Oswald lone nut narrative is officially dogmatized across the FBI. Suddenly, the Right Wing probe is cancelled, and what precious little there is about Oswald (almost nothing really, in view of 10000+ confidential paid informants around the world) becomes the enforced topic of the teletypes, airtels, registered letters, etc., between Hoover and the field.
...and again by reading consecutive communications, in order, from start to finish in a given time frame, the essential character of a large government beuraucracy is revealed when certain FBI field offices apparently didn't get the memo and still report on Walker and the Radical Right beyond Hoover's cut-off order - Hoover quickly rebukes them for not reading his earlier instructions to drop the Right and concentrate on Oswald.
Below my signature is an example of FBI communications after the assassination. These are just two of several hundred along these same lines that reveal on 22 November the FBI put out an emergency call to all CIs. The order was: find the Right Wing extremists and tell us who among them was in Dallas. The FBI doesn't suspect the commies, Oswald, the Cubans, the CIA, Bell Helicopter, nor the mafia - they are after the Radical Right. Basically everyone I can see a record of in the FBI at this time instinctively pursues first and foremost the Right. If you are correct about Walker and the Radical Right, these first gut feeling reactions of FBI SACs and residencies in the assassination aftermath may be the most important clues.
This shows us where street level FBI agents assumed the assassination originated:
Jason
Jason,
Many thanks for putting the time and effort into going through these documents, it is appreciated. I suspect in studying these papers, careful discernment and context is required.
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16 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:
Thanks Paul and George.
I agree that its really fascinating stuff. And boy does it show how widespread was the opposition to Kennedy's policies. The thing is I am not even sure that Kennedy knew Harvey was stationed in Italy at the time. It was really RFK who demanded Harvey be terminated, but Helms managed to ship him out of the country instead. And we know that both Angleton and Shaw considered Italy their second countries. So they were not going to let the leftists take over because of that dang liberal Kennedy.
What happened in Italy after with the Red Brigades and Andreotti and the train stain bombing etc was really some stark drama. And its possible to trace it back to Clay Shaw's visit there to form Permindex.
BTW, I guess I am breaking into the MSM. NPR wants to talk to me.
That's good to hear, Jim. NPR reaches alot of people.
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11 hours ago, Jason Ward said:
Roger,
It's an amazing letter.
This letter from Dr Miller is the best of dozens like it, but there's more. The newly released documents show at least dozens of people write Hoover and the Warren Commission with bits and pieces like,
- "I saw JoeBob load 4 rifles into the trunk of his car on November 19th and he told me he was joining the Minutemen in Dallas for the weekend"
- "I overheard a phone call saying "Walker will get Kennedy in Dallas or die trying."
- "A drunk guy fell down in the men's room and when I helped him up he told me Walker's going to get Kennedy and blame it on some guy who lived in Russia."
- "General Walker showed up looking for expert marksmen...."
- + on and on little bits and pieces like this, often from bartenders, taxi drivers, gas station attendants and others who we often talk in front of as if they aren't here.
I finished Dallas 1963 a few days ago. I like the year-long chronology. An outstanding insight into the mood and power brokers of the era....agree?
regards,
Jason
I just got back to Dallas 1963 a few days ago, and am getting close to the end. It's a good snapshot of the ugly environment in Dallas at the time.
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This is in my view the most important tip received from a member of the general public. This letter from Dr Martin Miller has it all spelled out 5 months after the assassination:
Jason,
This is very interesting indeed. Thanks for posting it, and for going through all the documents.
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I like what Fletcher Prouty said in regard to the number of shots in Dealey Plaza:
"As many as it took."
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I'd like to throw in Ed Lansdale.
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Let's see. Allen Dulles, William Harvey, E. Howard Hunt, Clay Shaw........
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1 hour ago, Jason Ward said:
Did you finish Dallas 1963?
I'm at page 121. Good stuff.
Jason
No, I haven't finished it yet. It is a good snapshot of the climate in Dallas during that time.
I temporarily put it aside because I'm going through the masters thesis by Chris Cravens that Paul T. mentioned some pages back, "Edwin A. Walker and the Right Wing in Dallas, 1960-1966. I got it through interlibrary loan via my local library.
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17 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:
Roger,
The following is my opinion.
Granting all that you say here -- there are SHADES of the Rightwing, and we should focus on the Radical Right -- the only SHADE that openly advocated violence, assassination and overthrow of the Government.
There are Rightists among WASPs and Catholics -- yet these are typically very peaceful and law abiding people -- even those who own guns and rifles.
Yet I'm talking about violent racists who exploit the divisions in our society, because of their unbridled ambition for power at any cost. They are true criminals.
Billy James Hargis, however, was not just a WASP, he was also an outspoken Racial Segregationist. This is what makes him interesting in the JFK assassination case.
Also, Hargis was a close, personal friend of General Walker, and he knew Carlos Bringuier quite well.
It is an interesting twist, Billy James Hargis (a self-made millionaire from Bible preaching) published an LP phonograph record in the mid-60's, in which he pretended to interview Lee Harvey Oswald. In this LP, Hargis had obtained the rights to the radio interview of Oswald by Bill Stuckey. Then, in a recording studio, Hargis dubbed in his own voice over Bill Stuckey's voice, and filled in the questions -- and this gave the illusion that Billy James Hargis interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald.
That's getting too close for my comfort. Yet I have researched the segregationist Reverend Billy James Hargis. I find him to be a Fake Conservative, because after he founded a college and a child-care center in the South, he was later sued for sexual molestation of both his college students and his child-care center kids.
He lived a VERY SECRET LIFE. Just like General Walker. When people are violent and SECRET -- there is real danger -- I'm convinced.
Regards,
--Paul TrejoPaul,
You make some very good points.
The radical right, most certainly thought JFK was an appeaser and had sold out the US to the "reds". To them, Kennedy was a traitor. They wanted to set the clock back. Granted many others outside of the radical right also thought JFK was an appeaser.
Interesting tidbits about Hargis. That gives a good example to the motto: "Do as I say, not as I do."
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During this 1960s time period, the radical right movement most certainly had a lot in common with protestant fundamentalism, and their common battle against communist atheism. I think the most outward symbols of this are persons like Billy James hargis, Gerald L.K. Smith, Kent & Phoebe Courtney, others. Cerainly less visible person could be John Foster & Allen Dulles, many of the Georgetown set with their wasp background. JFK being Catholic was a huge thing. All these groups/individuals whether east coast protestant or deep south/southwest protestant all had a common thought that liberals, catholics, democrats, etc. were all "communist", and it was like a dominoe theory.
In The Shadow Of Dallas
in JFK Book Discussions
Posted · Edited by Roger DeLaria
Paul,
It's been quite awhile since I've looked at it, so I'd have to read it again to refresh specific info. For that time period, when most journalists and all media toed the WC line, for these researchers to bring up the questions they did, really bucked the trend.
What I found interesting in just taking a quick glance without reading, are how the researchers such as Penn Jones and others, noticed the multiple mysterious deaths of persons who all had some kind of knowledge related to the assassination. Such as the meeting in Ruby's appt. on 11/24/63 when 3 at the meeting, Jim Koethe, Bill Hunter, and Tom Howard, all died mysterious deaths. Whenever any of these people investigated, such as when amateur researcher Shirley Martin, a housewife from Oklahoma, made trips to Dalls to interview witnesses, the police would tail her, openly following her around, and stick to her until she left Dallas. The same happened with others investigating in the area. The Dallas police would constantly surveil anyone coming in to investigate. Someone clearly didn't want anybody poking around.