Jim Hargrove

Oh, man, I can’t wait to read this!  Mr. McBride’s topic called “The inevitable end result of our last 56 years” must be one of the longest threads ever to appear on this forum. Was the idea for this new book born right here?

And what a stunning idea it is!  It puts the emphasis right on the cover-up, hopefully so all can see!   Brilliant! 

JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass and now Mr. McBride’s new book.  The truth is striking back, not once, but twice.

Congratulations, Joe! 

On 12/21/2021 at 11:12 PM, David G. Healy said:

For your added enjoyment, the official US paper for southeast asis area I read this very issue standing in the lobby of the Plaza Hotel on Tra Hung Dao in Saigon the morning of the issue. and....  I was not being replaced when my tour was completed in Feb '64. Appeared I was part of the first 1000...

Mr. Healy,

Thanks so much for this!  (Sorry for getting here a little late.) This headline is far more important to me than debunking any BS Tim Weiner was paid to spread.  Just to check.... The headline is from the official "Stars and Stripes" newspaper we often hear about, right?

You appear to have been a part of history, now hidden!  Thanks again!

If you’d like to follow along with John’s talk tonight, or read it in advance, here’s a link to the full piece, along with supporting photos, maps, and documents:

Westbrook and Croy

John Armstrong will be on Len Osanic’s Black Op Radio tonight (Dec. 23, 2021) for the first of two upcoming talks presenting his evidence against Dallas Police Capt. William Westbrook and reserve officer Sgt. Kenneth Croy.  John believes both men were involved in the the murder of J.D. Tippit and the framing of “Lee Harvey Oswald.”

The program will air live tonight from  6:00pm - 7:30pm PST (9-10:30pm EST) and will be accessible in Black Op’s archives soon thereafter.

So, a thread that shows, once again, what John Armstrong first proved decades ago—the the Magic Money Order® was never cashed and was clearly forged—has now devolved into yet another attempt at bashing Harvey and Lee. 

Joseph McBride, author of Into the Nightmare and may other books, has said that “John Armstrong has essentially solved this case,” or words to that effect.  David Mantik, David Josephs, and Robert Groden, among many others, have held Harvey and Lee in the highest regard.  If memory serves, Mr. Mantik once said it was his favorite book on the subject.

Two YouTube movies by “MrChrillemannen,”presenting John Armstrong interviews with accompanying graphics, have been viewed nearly 700,000 times!

Captain Westbrook, officer Tippit and Oswald's double

and

Who impersonated Lee Harvey Oswald?

John’s work has spawned, not counting “The Other Oswald,” which is somewhat different, at least three different books in recent years.

The JFK Assassination and the Uncensored Story of the Two Oswalds

From an Amazon review: “I'd read a good chunk of Armstrong's Harvey and Lee, but Shannan provided clarity for me on the matter of Marguerite Oswald in particular and the whole thesis in general. So much easier to read this digest than the master's unedited tome.”

DOPPELGANGER: The Legend of Lee Harvey Oswald

Dr. Schwimmer’s best-seller is already in it’s fifth edition.

From the publisher’s blurb: “More than 300 sources, including many sworn testimonies & affidavits, were consulted, as well as John Armstrong’s massive research project HARVEY AND LEE. One fact led to another, until a coherent picture began to emerge from the immense pile of puzzle pieces…. That picture includes the background of Harvey as a juvenile immigrant fluent in Russian, and the creation of the second ‘Lee Harvey Oswald’ and the second ‘Marguerite Oswald.’ The picture continues with the recruitment of both Lee Oswald and Harvey Oswald by the ONI and the CIA, followed by Harvey’s assumption of Lee’s identity, his ‘defection’ to Russia, and Lee’s involvement with the Cuban revolution and the CIA..…”

Mistaken Identity

From the publisher’s blurb:  "New forensic and evidentiary material not published, proves that two individuals known as "Lee Harvey Oswald" enlisted in the U.S. Marines in 1956 using the same birth certificate. Recent genealogical research identifies them as second cousins through intermarriage of second-generation French families in New Orleans. It created a nightmare of identity for the FBI."

When people here tell you "Harvey and Lee" has all been debunked and that nobody believes it, don't believe them.

I’m going to ignore the personal attacks and just point out that Gil’s original post here is quite accurate.  There simply were no bank stamps on the back of the Magic Money Order, even though they were required by Federal Reserve Bank regulations.  Why?  Because the  money order was never cashed.  Personnel in the FBI, possibly with the help of Harry Holmes, faked it. 

The money order itself could be faked, but bringing other banks into the charade would have been too dangerous, and it wasn’t done.  As Gil pointed out, the Magic Money Order was also well out of sequence.  More fabrication of evidence in this case.

On 12/18/2021 at 3:33 PM, Jonathan Cohen said:

I applaud John Armstrong's tenacity as a researcher, and the collection of documents he has donated to Baylor is a very valuable addition to the assassination research archive. However, I believe his theory is absolutely preposterous on numerous levels, and the mountain of anomalies on which this theory rests is easily toppled by alternate explanations that don't involve a laughably complex conspiracy involving doppelgangers. It is an embarrassment to the larger JFK community, with which Armstrong refuses to engage.

Do you now wish to engage?  Let's see....

If the Oswald Project hadn’t been an intelligence operation, it surely wouldn’t have been as complex.  As it is, the history of “Lee Harvey Oswald” bears all the earmarks of the smoke and mirrors central to any intel project.  You know it as well as I do…. “Oswald” was a spy! 

"Oswald" was a creature of the CIA! Eh?

Even after all these years, why can’t we answer the simplest questions about “Lee Harvey Oswald?” Why was he one of the most impersonated people in history, from grade school in the 1950s to late 1963?  

How did he learn to speak Russian as well or better than he spoke English before ever setting foot in the Soviet Union?  Can you explain that?  Care to argue about it?

Could “Oswald” drive a car? How did he visit the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans and work with the anti-Castro Cuban ex-pats in south Florida at the VERY same he was in Russia?  Was he a miracle worker or was he simply a U.S. spy?

Are doubles part of spycraft?  Want to argue about it?

Why was “Oswald” impersonated in and around Dallas at least a dozen times late in 1963, just  weeks before JFK was killed?  Are you seriously going to tell me "Lee Harvey Oswald" was NOT a U.S. spy?

Do you believe "Oswald" drove a demo car at Downtown Lincoln Mercury in Dallas in November 1963 without presenting a legitimate Texas driver's license? Seriously?  

Let's talk about this, Jonathan.  And please.... let the insults fly! I always win when you resort to B.S.  

From Sandy's article, quoting the Federal Reserve Bank regulations (emphasis, in red, added by Sandy):

Endorsements

13. All cash items sent to us, or to another Federal Reserve Bank

direct for our account, should be endorsed without restriction to the

order of the Federal Reserve Bank to which sent, or endorsed to the

order of any bank, banker or trust company, or with some similar

endorsement. Cash items will be accepted by us, and by other Federal

Reserve Banks, only upon the understanding and condition that all

prior endorsements are guaranteed by the sending bank. There should

be incorporated in the endorsement of the sending bank the phrase,

“ All prior endorsements guaranteed.” The act of sending or deliver­ing a

cash item to us or to another Federal Reserve Bank will, however,

be deemed and understood to constitute a guaranty of all prior

endorsements on such item, whether or not an express guaranty is

incorporated in the sending bank’s endorsement. The endorsement of

the sending bank should be dated and should show the American

Bankers Association transit number of the sending bank in prominent

type on both sides.

Back in 2015, Sandy Larsen posted proof that Postal money orders required bank endorsements in 1963 on this forum:  It is a fairly lengthy proof, but he also provides shorter versions in links near the top of the page.

Proof that . . . Postal money orders required bank endorsement stamps in 1963.

2 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

"That's one angle that's very confusing," Hoover said. "That picture and the tape do not correspond to this man's {Oswald's} voice, nor to his appearance. In other words, it appears that there is a second person who was at the Soviet Embassy down there."”

Exactly.  Here's the document page:

41 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Whatever one thinks about Harvey and Lee, John Armstrong's chapter on Mexico City is one of the best there is.

Thanks, Jim.  Do  you have any doubt that JA's & DJ's report on "Oswald" in Mexico City is among the best research that still exists? 

The Warren Report is the biggest laughing stock among JFK researchers I'm aware of.  Will Jonathan Cohen attack the Warren Report?  Let's hear some REAL CRITICISM about the Warren Report!  No?

Thanks so much for this, Gil.  As always, it is concisely written and beautifully reasoned.

I’m well aware that the Magic Money Order was never endorsed and therefore never cashed. Bank endorsements, instead of dated FBI initials, should have appeared on the back of the money order (see bottom image below).  

Regarding the numerical sequencing of the Magic Money Order, John Armstrong wrote on our website:

These money orders were purchased in numerical sequence beginning in November, 1962. These serial numbers show that some 1200 money orders per week were purchased at the downtown post office in Dallas. At this rate we see that Oswald's alleged purchase of a money order on March 12, 1963 should have been numbered 2,202,011,935. But the serial number of the money order published in the Warren Volumes was more than 118,000 numbers higher. At the rate of 1200 money order per week, this money order should have been purchased in late 1964 or early 1965.

Postal Inspector/FBI informant Harry Holmes was instrumental in framing “Lee Harvey Oswald.”

Although she was forced to say many things, Marina Oswald clearly was NOT "in on it."  

The document that Steve Thomas posted on the first page of this thread indicated "Lee Harvey Oswald" (or someone posing as him) entered and departed Mexico driving a car.  Several years ago, David Josephs demonstrated quite nicely how the whole Mexican bus thing likely was invented and he showed how it was done.

Literally dozens of people knew and said that "Lee Harvey Oswald" drove automobiles.  Many of them are quoted, some under oath, here: 

https://harveyandlee.net/Driving/Drive.htm

And speaking, as we are, of documents...

22 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

So, I will concede that there is "evidence" of the "car" thing beyond the document we were discussing. But I don't find any of it convincing.

Of course not, but there were many witness who knew a "Lee Harvey Oswald" could drive a car and even some who knew he had a Texas driver's license.  Whatever you do, DO NOT follow the link below to see just how many people said "Oswald" DID drive.

The Man Who Could--And Couldn't--Drive

17 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Hi, Sandy,

The posting of the FBI flash cancellation on Oswald was dated 10/10/63, and the CIA cable was dated the very same day, 10/10/63.  The dates are on the documents I posted a couple of pages back.  Quite a coincidence, eh?

Oops, my mistake.  According to the FBI "WANTED NOTICE CARD" I posted on page 17 of this thread, the "information [was] received" on 10/9/63 that the flash had been cancelled, one day before the infamous CIA cable was dated.  Still a remarkable coincidence.  

The Commission surely should have questioned Gheesling but, of course, they didn't want to know why the watch was cancelled.  My guess is that Dulles was the top dog behind the whole plot.

Hi, Sandy,

The posting of the FBI flash cancellation on Oswald was dated 10/10/63, and the CIA cable was dated the very same day, 10/10/63.  The dates are on the documents I posted a couple of pages back.  Quite a coincidence, eh?

On 12/8/2021 at 10:06 PM, Bob Ness said:

Who was it that thought that the Harvey/Henry bit and some of the differences in descriptions of Oswald were "marked cards" that Angleton bled into his files to track leaks? I thought that was an interesting take. Forget who came up with that.

On 12/9/2021 at 12:39 AM, James DiEugenio said:

That was I think Scott who did that.

His theory was that the discrepancies in the file and the whole Lee Henry thing was part of a search for Popov's mole.

In the long version of JFK Revisited, Newman discusses this.

That was also developed, if memory serves, in State Secret by Bill Simpich.  My problem with the theory is that we just have to accept the amazing coincidence that the CIA cable was released at the very same time the FBI cancelled the Watch on Oswald.  Again, if memory serves, John Newman referred to this as “turning down the lights” on Oswald.  The frame-up would have been impossible without this turn of events.  New to me in JFK Revisited is that the patsy-to-be would have been removed from the parade route had the federal lights not been turned down.

On 12/6/2021 at 2:24 PM, James DiEugenio said:

And yes Jim, we tried to point at Allen Dulles and I am really glad John Newman brought up those two points about the Flash Warning and the split in the Oswald file by the CIA. Which both happened before the assassination.

Its  neat that people who are not familiar with the case, but who saw the film, are shocked at what it shows.

Finally, I agree that the film is skillfully done. As i said, if it were not for the subject matter, it would garner some Emmy awards.  But it won't because of that subject matter.

Thanks Jim.  If you can take a few minutes to scan what's below, can you suggest any updates or alterations?

III. COLLUSION OF THE FBI AND CIA

The FBI took Oswald off the watch list, managed by its “WANTED NOTICE” cards, at the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health, just a couple of months after his New Orleans arrest for alleged violence in support of Communist Cuba and less than two months before the assassination. These two actions effectively took the federal spotlight off “Lee Harvey Oswald.”

The WC didn’t even bother to depose the Division 5 guy (Gheesling) who ordered the FBI's flash cancellation. “Lee Harvey Oswald” had been on that list for nearly four years, since the “defection.” Now that he was taken off it, he’d no longer be under FBI and SS surveillance on 11/22.

At the very same time the FBI was taking “Lee Harvey Oswald” off the watch list, the CIA was publishing several confusing things about him. Responding to a query from the Mexico City station, four CIA officers signed a cable giving lots of accurate biographical data on our boy but calling him “Lee Henry Oswald.” The three page cable expressed no security concerns whatsoever about Oswald and, in fact, indicated the Moscow embassy felt “life in the Soviet Union had clearly had maturing effect on Oswald.” Nothing to worry about here!

This cable was signed by Jane Roman (Angleton’s assistant), William Hood (also close to Angleton), Thomas Karamessines (assistant to Helms) and John Whitten who, according to Jefferson Morley, was the only CIA officer of the four signers who suffered any adverse consequences for this troubling cable. John Armstrong believes that Angleton ran the Oswald Project.

At the same time the FBI was taking “Lee Harvey Oswald” off the watch list, the CIA was giving “Lee Henry Oswald” (biographical data mostly matching LHO’s official biography) a clean bill of political health in the infamous cable of 10/10/63 (see above).

It was now no longer officially necessary for the FBI to monitor “Oswald’s” activities in Dallas. And the Secret Service would no longer be expected to investigate him prior to a presidential visit to Dallas.

Although “Lee Harvey Oswald” had been arrested for a supposedly violent confrontation in support of Fidel Castro in New Orleans just two months earlier, the entire National Security apparatus of our Federal government now seemed to just stop worrying about him. What happened next, of course, has been documented by scores of writers and filmmakers for more than half a century.

“Lee Harvey Oswald,” or more likely someone who looked like him, began making all kinds of appearances in and around Dallas. These appearances were clearly designed to attract attention. Here are just some:

- - - - - - -

“Oswald” visits the Sports Drome Rifle Range on Oct. 26, Nov. 9, Nov. 10, and again on Nov. 17, several times creating a scene and once shooting at another guy's target;

On Nov. 2 “Oswald” visits Morgan's Gun Shop in Fort Worth.

Also on Nov. 2 “Oswald” visits the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership where he test drives a car at wrecklessly high speeds saying he would soon come into enough money to buy a new car.

On Nov. 6 or 7 “Oswald” visits the Irving Furniture Mart for a gun part and is referred to the shop where Dial Ryder works.

On Nov. 15, “Oswald” goes to the Southland Hotel parking garage (Allright Parking Systems) and applies for a job and asks how high the Southland Building is and if it had a good view of downtown Dallas.

On Nov. 20 “Oswald” hitch-hikes on the R.L. Thornton Expressway while carrying a 4 foot long package wrapped in brown paper and introduces himself to Ralph Yates as “Lee Harvey Oswald,” discusses the President's visit, and asks to be dropped across the street from the Texas School Book Depository (where Russian-speaking “Lee Harvey Oswald” is already working).

The set-up of “Lee Harvey Oswald” was almost complete. Could this have been accomplished if the FBI and the Secret Service hadn’t been put to sleep just a few weeks earlier?

3 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

Thank goodness someone with some power is finally able to reach the masses with the message I've been saying for many years. This case is a FRAUD, it has always been a FRAUD and they brainwashed the citizenry into believing in the guilt of an innocent man. In the past, it took lawyers like Mark Lane and Jim Garrison to read the testimony and to understand what was going on in 1963 and 1964. I've made it my personal crusade to try to enlighten people of the travesty of justice of this so-called "investigation". Thank you to Oliver Stone and Jim DiEugenio for shining the light into the dark corners of this tragic moment in American history.

Amen, Gil!

I just saw JFK Revisited. What a great documentary!!  A terrific mix of print docs and interviews that shows exactly how the cover-up unfolded and points directly at the Agency responsible for the hit.  

Loved the clarity showing how the CIA and the FBI simultaneously took the limelight off Oswald just weeks before the assassination, and how Allen Dulles was soooo guilty.  Setting out the Big Picture of JFK’s foreign policy and tying together Cuba, Vietnam, the Congo and France was always one of Jim Di’s most remarkable skills.

Congratulations to Mr. DiEugenio for his incredible work!  And it’s pretty clear that Oliver Stone still knows how to put together a great motion picture.  Can anyone possibly believe the Warren Report after seeing this film?

... other than from the FBI?

The full HSCA staff notes released to date on James B. Wilcott interview can be found here:

HSCA WILCOTT NOTES

Does anyone care?

CIA employee Ann Egerter indirectly confirmed Mr. Wilcott’s assertion that LHO was an Agency employee. 

Mrs. Egerter, who worked for J.J. Angleton's Counterintelligence Special Interest Group (CI/SIG), belatedly opened a "201" file on Oswald on December 9, 1960.  Mrs. Egerter testified to the HSCA: "We were charged with the investigation of Agency personnel....”  When asked if the purpose was to "investigate Agency employees," she answered, "That is correct." When asked, "Would there be any other reason for opening up a file?" she answered, "No, I can't think of one."

For more details on the above, see my post on page 2 of this thread.

Larry,

Fair enough.  But it should also be noted that, according to the HSCA’s long-suppressed notes:

“Committee did stress analysis on Jim Wilcott.  Cuban stress analysis verified Wilcott validity.  Available if needed”.

And:

“Mr. Wilcott advised that he would gladly submit to a polygraph examination and inquired when and where the examination would be given.”
 

On 10/1/2021 at 9:11 AM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

I find that generally the cryptonym database at Mary Ferrell's site is pretty accurate. There are a few that are questionable but the vast majority are accurately caregorized. But I believe it is a mistake to include this completely uncorroborated assertion even though it is labeled "speculative." 

Tracy,

So, you just want to bury the claim of a former CIA paymaster active when JFK was murdered that, in 1963, "Lee Harvey Oswald" was paid by the CIA and that his encrypted codename was RX/ZIM?