Jim Hargrove
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Posts posted by Jim Hargrove
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1 hour ago, Jonathan Cohen said:
Huh? Just because Hoover put them in a memo means they are "simple facts?" Are you now telling us that every word of what is in the FBI files on the assassination is a "fact?" That's pretty rich coming from you, when you also claim virtually every piece of evidence in the case has been faked to hide the truth of the Oswald doppelganger project. You don't get to pick and choose which documents are legitimate and which ones aren't. It is perfectly plausible that in this instance, Hoover was either mistaken or covering his own behind.
That's right! You have to look at the evidence AS A WHOLE and decide what the true facts are. There are quite a few false documents in this case, but the overwhelming majority are surely legit. If it was easy, the JFK assassination would have been deciphered years ago. But we're getting there!
Now, Would anyone else care to consider the possibility that Mr. Hoover was right when, two hours after the assassination, he wrote:
"Oswald went to Russia and stayed three years; came back to the United States in June, 1962, and went to Cuba on several occasions but would not tell us what he went to Cuba for.”
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Groups conducting illegal operations against Castro out of JM/WAVE in the early 1960s were run by CIA officers including David Atlee Phillips, E. Howard Hunt, and William Harvey. These names, of course, are familiar to JFK researchers, but proof of a direct connection between “Lee Harvey Oswald” and the huge Miami station has yet to be found, and I think I know why.
Just a couple of hours after JFK was killed, Hoover wrote a memo to top FBI officials that said, "Oswald went to Russia and stayed three years; came back to the United States in June, 1962, and went to Cuba on several occasions but would not tell us what he went to Cuba for.” According to the Warren Commission, Oswald never went to Cuba. Why were these simple facts suppressed so thoroughly?
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11 hours ago, John Butler said:
Would our beloved CIA stop at the use of just one refugee? I don't think so.
Well said. Thank you, John!
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Let’s get back to the subject of this thread….
The purpose of John’s Black Op Radio address was to present the evidence he has gathered indicating that Capt. William Westbrook and reserve officer Kenneth Croy probably conspired with an Oswald look-alike to murder J. D. Tippit, blame it and the Kennedy hit on Lee Harvey Oswald, and to help get Oswald silenced permanently.
We think Westbrook and Croy were the two police officers who boarded the Marsalis Ave bus soon after Oswald left it.
Croy was probably in car #207 with Westbrook when it honked in front of Oswald’s boarding house.
Croy was probably in the car with Westbrook that was seen by Mrs. Holan in the narrow driveway blocked by Tippit’s car near 10th and Patton.
Croy himself said he was the first officer at the Tippit murder scene.
Croy also claimed that he found the other “Oswald” wallet at 10th and Patton and gave it to Westbrook. (Although he was probably lying to protect Westbrook.)
Evidence suggests it was reserve officer Ken Croy who led Jack Ruby—at precisely the right moment—to where Oswald could be killed on the parking lot ramp by the jail office. It should be noted that only about five minutes expired between the time Ruby used Western Union to send money to a stripper and the time he shot Oswald. The timing was stunning, and was surely no accident.
See additional images near the bottom of this page to see how quickly Ruby followed Croy to the scene.
And now let’s consider the chart that John is working on. Here is the latest version:
The Warren Commission wanted us to believe that Ruby “found” Oswald by walking through the narrow parking ramp on Main and Commerce streets. But why would he enter that narrow space that was guarded by police and filled with bystanders seeking to get a look at Oswald? More likely, Ruby entered via the main entrance to the building and walked down the stairs to the parking lot area. DPD Officer Brock was guarding that staircase, but only until 10:45 am, when he was reassigned to traffic duty. According to a document discovered by David Josephs working with John on this, Officer Brock was replaced by a reserve officer—we suspect, who else, but Kenneth Croy.
It should be noted that both William Westbrook and Kenneth Croy had rather ridiculous stories claiming how they spent a considerable portion of the afternoon of Nov. 22, 1963.
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9 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:
Lee Harvey Oswald was one person, and did not lose any of his teeth in a fight at school. This topic was discussed back in 2020, when we discovered, unsurprisingly, that yet another piece of 'Harvey and Lee' evidence possessed a plausible, everyday explanation. In fact, it possessed three plausible, everyday explanations:
- Ron Ecker: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26512-arguments-against-the-harvey-lee-theory-the-missing-tooth/?do=findComment&comment=419923
- Greg Doudna: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26512-arguments-against-the-harvey-lee-theory-the-missing-tooth/?do=findComment&comment=420008
- Greg Parker: https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t227-armstrong-s-magic-tooth-and-the-facts-about-harvey-at-beauregard
If even one plausible, everyday explanation exists for a body of evidence, there is no good reason to invent a far-fetched explanation involving doppelganger Oswalds, doppelganger Marguerites, a team of expert photo-fakers, imaginary face masks, and strange earlobes.
As always, Mr. Bojczuk attempts to win his argument with a flurry of links that prove nothing! Unfortunately for him, the February 21, 1964 edition of LIFE Magazine was printed, widely distributed, and can still be easily obtained. And it shows what no number of links can. Here, again, is the obvious truth:
In the fall of 1954, LEE Oswald was in the 9th grade at Beauregard JHS, where he became friends with a kid named Ed Voebel after Voebel witnessed him in a protracted fight with the Neumeyer brothers, Johnny and Mike. Voebel and a couple of other kids attempted to patch Lee up. This was in November. Voebel told the Warren Commission that Oswald lost a tooth in the fight.
Mr. JENNER. But you do remember that you attempted to help him when he was struck in the mouth on that occasion; is that right?
Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; I think he even lost a tooth from that. I think he was cut on the lip, and a tooth was knocked out.Soon after the fight, Voebel took a famous photograph of Oswald that he eventually sold to LIFE magazine after the assassination. It appears to show LEE Oswald with a missing tooth.
About a half century later, after one of a number of meetings John Armstrong had with Marina (Oswald) Porter, she handed him all the original photos of the 1981 exhumation. Here is one of them.
As you can see, there is no missing front tooth.
From this starting point, Sandy Larsen developed substantially more evidence. John Butler also discovered recently that the 1955 Civil Air Patrol photo (which also depicts David Ferrie) seems to show American-born LEE Oswald with a missing tooth that is clearly present in the exhumation photo.
I personally have the Feb. 21, 1964 edition of LIFE Magazine which contains the big halftone reproduction of Voebel's photo that fills up all of page 70 and extends onto page 71. The images above (except Marina's exhumation graphic) were from my scanner, or processed from a scans I made, and I did my best to make the most accurate reproductions possible.
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I love the simple clarity of the statement Richard Dudman made just days after the hit:
“How could the president have been shot in the front from the back?”
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11 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:
Earl Rose was the medical examiner of Dallas at the time.
And Earl Warren was the Chief Justice of the United States. Nothing wrong with the WC Report, eh?
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John,
I'm starting a major check on Earl Rose. Thanks!
In the meantime....
At 10:45 am on the Sunday morning when Lee HARVEY Oswald was shot dead, DPD officer Brock was replaced by a “Reserve Officer” at his post just a few feet from where Ruby killed “Oswald.”
Was that Reserve Officer Kenneth Croy?
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Good points, John! Let’s chew on some more facts that, like the missing teeth, DID happen in this case. So….
Two Hidell I.D. cards were “found” by Capt. Westbrook and Ken Croy in an Oswald wallet at the Tippit murder site (10th and Patton). When were these IDs from the 10th and Patton wallet moved to the other Oswald wallet taken from Lee HARVEY Oswald soon after his arrest? Let’s call this the arrest wallet.
Around 2 pm Friday, DPD officer Paul Bentley removed Oswald’s wallet from his pants pocket while the men were riding in Capt. Westbrook’s car. Bentley eventually gave the wallet to Lt. Marrion Baker, who left it on a table in the Homicide and Robbery interrogation room.
The FBI listed twelve items in the arrest wallet, but three different photos were listed as item #11, and so there were actually a total of 14 items.
The two Hidell IDs were not listed by the FBI at that time, nor were they photographed that afternoon. A Fair Play for Cuba card found in the arrest wallet was signed by A.J. Hidell, but the two Hidell IDs simply were not there.
WESTBROOK AND CROY
When were the Hidell IDs belatedly added to the alleged contents of Oswald’s wallet? Who did it?
Read John A’s answers by reading the following article, starting about two-thirds of the way down the page: -
This is terrible news, James. Would a major round of user contributions help you to change your mind?
If this is the end, thank you so much for all you have done!
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On 12/31/2021 at 8:09 AM, Al Fordiani said:
It shows how much the DPD was willing to go along that Westbrook was able to massage everything internally right down to Croy making way for Ruby.
Perhaps it goes even deeper than that. David Josephs and John A. have been collaborating on some research about the killing of “Oswald,” and David found something very interesting. Apparently, the DPD cop in charge of security around the elevator leading from the parking lot to the spot where Oswald was killed (there’s a ramp nearby as well) was a “reserve officer.” This was a Sunday.
I’ll bet, but can’t prove, that the reserve officer was Ken Croy. I think the WC lawyers suspected the same thing. If so, the most logical assumption is that it was Croy’s job to lead Ruby to Oswald at just the time he (Oswald) was brought out from the jail office area to the waiting cops and reporters.
Look at the three photos near the end of the article that started this thread. Croy appears, and then Ruby appears, and then Croy starts to back away.
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On 1/3/2022 at 10:44 AM, John Butler said:
Thanks Jim
On the Harvey and Lee book cover, whose who? If the right (left hand) half pic is Harvey, and I believe that to be true. Who is the left (right hand) pic?
John has always said that he thought the left half of the DOD photo was of LEE Oswald while the right half was of HARVEY. But he also, when asked, always says he doesn’t trust the photo evidence any more than other pieces of evidence in this case.
7 hours ago, Al Fordiani said:Bottom line on the title referenced presentation: Based on Armstrong's analysis of Westbrook's testimony, I believe Westbrook was a fore-knowledge conspirator.
Westbrook’s hands are all over the set-up of “Oswald” in this case. The director of DPD personnel somehow manages to “find” the jacket, “find” the 10th and Patton wallet, “discover” the Hidell IDs, and still becomes the first cop at the Texas Theater, and even after that he keeps the pistol that allegedly killed Tippit right next to his desk for an hour or so. What a guy!
The excuses Westbrook and Croy make to ‘splain their times supposedly missing in action are laughable. The WC attorneys may have had an inkling that Croy had something to do with “Oswald’s” death. They repeatedly advised him to get legal counsel during his testimony. Croy must have somehow known the Commissioners were on the job to cover up the truth, not to find it.
You’ve made some very good summaries of John A’s points, Al, and it would be nice to go over a few more. If you can be coaxed into staying in this thread a bit longer, I’ll try to stick to the subject of John’s essay. It contains a whole lot of significant insights beyond questions about multiple Oswalds.
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The Half Bills
As John A. wrote on our website, “neither of these half-dollar bills were listed on the police inventory of 11/23/63, the joint FBI/Dallas Police inventory of Oswald's possessions on 11/26/63, nor were these items photographed. At the National Archives, in Adelphi, MD, I inspected and handled each item of inventory listed on the joint FBI/Dallas Police inventory of 11/26/63. These items were not among the inventory nor were they ever mentioned by the Warren Commission.”
The link to the Dallas JFKA archives that once brought up the non-annotated version of this document is now broken. As late as 2019, this link, would bring it up.
Broken link: http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/22/2288-001.gif
Now the document is available through this web.archive.org link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160703001218if_/http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/22/2288-001.gif
Curiously, the very next electronic link (to 2289-001.gif) was to a list entitled “Possessions of Lee Harvey Oswald.” I thought that might be significant, but others pointed out that these documents are seldom put in any logical order. On the other hand, this history does indicate that the “half bills” note was in a Dallas collection devoted to the JFKA and Lee Harvey Oswald.
Forum member Steve Thomas had perhaps the most expertise searching through the online Dallas archives that have now moved or disappeared. If he happens to read this, Steve might be able to tell us if the non-annotated “half bills” document is still online from an official Dallas source.
As for the annotated version (see below) John A. says he got it directly from Dallas Archivist Cindy Smolovik, who was in charge of preserving all of the more than 11,000 pages of DPD documents about the Kennedy Assassination when they were released in early 1992. If John is remembering this correctly, then my guess is that someone inserted the page into the Archives after the annotation was made.
Other than the questioned annotation, there is no direct evidence that an Oswald actually had the half bills in question, although with so many different wallets in evidence, especially the “arrest” wallet and the “10th and Patton” wallet that Croy said he found and gave to Westbrook, it certainly seems likely to me.
Who else would need this CIA-style identification procedure? Texas Theater patron Jack Davis recalled that Lee HARVEY Oswald moved from seat to seat, sitting close to other patrons on the sparsely populated main floor. It sounds as if he was looking for a “contact,” perhaps one that would hold the other half of a dollar bill.
This is, of course, speculation, but can we think of anyone who, closely associated with the JFK assassination, would adopt a known Agency technique for identification? How about a kid who never finished a single semester in high school, but who somehow learned to score about the same in a Russian language military exam as he did in in English language questions, a kid who went from the Marines to the Soviet Union and back to the U.S. and who the CIA claims it never even interviewed? The whole spy saga is a joke, but not a very funny one.
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Thanks, John. Interesting observations.
I’m pretty sure Jack White believed the composite image of “Lee Harvey Oswald” was on the Department of Defense card given to Lee HARVEY Oswald in 1959.
Richard Case Nagell carried a copy of the same card but with a slightly different picture. Note the tie in the fuzzy mug shot.
Jack designed the cover for H&L, illustrating what he believed was the composite image on the DOD card.
If memory serves (I haven’t double checked) there is an almost identical mug shot of our boy(s) but wearing a tie. Almost everything about “Lee Harvey Oswald” is weird.
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On 12/31/2021 at 11:12 AM, John Butler said:
Judging from this Lee could lack the problem of Harvey's back of the neck hair problem. But, he appears to have had a haircut which gives no real way to say.
For those critics that argue there was only one Lee Harvey Oswald, check out the missing front teeth. Harvey, when he was dug up out of his grave, had all of his front teeth.
John,
I can't remember if we've talked about this before, but below is a photo that I think shows LEE Harvey Oswald in Ruby's Carousel Club. The inset photo is from Lee HARVEY Oswald's 1959 passport, which John A. always believed had a photo of LEE. Note the hair. Could this be a toupee, or photo editing?
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On 12/31/2021 at 4:26 PM, Greg Doudna said:
What is the evidence that is in, or ever was in, Oswald's evidence file? Where is it today?
Good questions!
There's some other info on a different subject I'm planning to put up here tomorrow, and I'm still recovering from The Holidays (which at my age is hardly instantaneous), but I'll try to post ASAP the info I have. There's an Ed Forum thread from a few years back that has a lot of info on this question, and I have more to add.
If I don't respond to this in a few days, please feel free to remind me. In the meantime, here are the two most interesting docs I know of about this....
And this....
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On 12/29/2021 at 11:23 PM, Greg Doudna said:
As I recall, the "half dollar bills" derived from some unidentified evidence photo in the Dallas Police Department archives, no evidence it was related to the Tippit/Oswald case, but that identification was invented, probably first as a conjecture ("could be!") and then became repeated as if it was a viable near-fact.
It is a relief to learn that an Evidence Fairy® apparently inserted the note about half bills into Oswald’s file. Otherwise, we might assume that our patsy was using an existing CIA method for establishing identity and that would be… you know… too yucky!
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On 12/29/2021 at 8:30 PM, Greg Doudna said:
Micah the undelivered envelope is real and a mystery, but the part about a brown paper bag in the envelope that was undelivered is total invention, not known, no evidence or basis
Huh?
The FBI's airtel to Hoover dated 12/13/63 stated that the envelope "covers a long brown bag open at both ends."
And CE2444 identifies item Q265 as the envelope bearing an address for "Lee Oswald" and Q266 as "Accompanying portion of a long narrow paper bag...."
(Emphasis added by me)
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17 hours ago, Al Fordiani said:
I just want to say: this is absolutely MUST listen!
Set aside any “Harvey and Lee” feelings or bias. Substitute “man who shot Tippet” for LEE Harvey Oswald. Focus on Westbrook’s and Croy’s statements versus reality.
Whether or not every little detail is correct, I find the overall narrative very compelling.
Westbrook was the man in the DPD. A true conspirator. That I believe.
Thank you John Armstrong for a great presentation.
Thanks, Mr. Fordiani!
I think John has shown that reserve officer Ken Croy was probably Westbrook’s partner in crime. John has been working with David Josephs recently on the Ruby/Oswald slaying, and David uncovered an interesting new (as far a I know) fact about Croy’s responsibilities that day. More soon.
As to who shot Tippit, Joe McBride has shown in great detail how the witness descriptions of the shooter varied wildly.
But when considering the Tippit witnesses, few researchers pay enough attention to how close the witnesses were to the actual shooting. And so….
The closest was surely Domingo Benavides, who was about 15 feet away. Benavides testified that the shooter looked like Oswald except for the fact that his hair was cut differently in the back.
Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.
Mr. BELIN - Were they newspaper pictures or television pictures, or both, or neither?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Well, television pictures and newspaper pictures. The thing lasted about a month, I believe, it seemed like.
Mr. BELIN - Pardon.
Mr. BENAVIDES - I showed--I believe they showed pictures of him every day for a long time there.. . . . .
Mr. BELIN - Okay, well, I thank you. I was flying from St. Louis to Des Moines, Iowa. at about this time. Is there anything else?
Mr. BENAVIDES - I remember the back of his head seemed like his hairline was sort of--looked like his hairline sort of went square instead of tapered off. and he looked like he needed a haircut for about 2 weeks, but his hair didn't taper off, it kind of went down and squared off and made his head look fiat in back.
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John,
Without having studied the Tippit autopsy, I can’t be much help with that. Nevertheless, the evidence I’m familiar with seems to show that the man who killed Tippit made a final execution-style head shot, suggesting, perhaps, a pro.
Hemmings may be tricky, but John A. is quite certain it was the taller, huskier LEE Harvey Oswald who was stationed briefly in Subic Bay, which makes sense with your analysis.
For what it’s worth, Frank Fiorini/Sturgis seems to have been well aware that the LEE Harvey Oswald he knew was only one of two different Oswalds. Here’s a very brief excerpt from an old interview he did with Bill O’Reilly.
Frank Sturgis on two Oswalds
David,That Lee HARVEY Oswald might have used the undelivered long brown bag to carry his lunch is, of course, speculation and may seem unlikely. But we believe one of the reasons he was chosen to be the designated patsy was that he had repeatedly demonstrated his willingness to carry out instructions, even difficult ones. For example, when the Russkies decided to kick him out, he slit his wrist to avoid failure.
We believe that he was following instructions for almost everything he did on 11/22/63. He simply had to be at the right places at the right time.
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18 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:
What is the official interpretation of this information?
I’ve searched the Warren Report for any reference to the phony address pasted over the real address on the brown paper package, and it is not mentioned. I’m pretty sure they ignored the whole topic, other than a few references buried without explanation in the volumes. After all, can you even imagine an innocent explanation for this?
Here are two more documents. If anyone has a better image of the actual postage due notice, I’d sure like to see it. On the Dallas police inventory list identifying the Postal notice, I think the handwritten notation is John Armstrong’s.
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22 hours ago, John Butler said:
Is there any other reference to Lee Oswald being involved in an assassination or murder at some other time and place?
Not that I’m aware of, but multiple witnesses have claimed that LEE Harvey Oswald was active among anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Florida while Lee HARVEY Oswald was in Russia. The Florida mercenaries were a rough crowd, including Frank Fiorini/Sturgis.
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8 hours ago, Matt Allison said:
Also, the times posted in this article regarding when Tippit's murder was reported to the dispatcher are wildly incorrect.
John believes that the FBI altered the DPD time stamps. He's probably using what he thinks are the actual times these events occurred, not the fictitious FBI alterations. John's proof of this appears about halfway down the page linked below, two paragraphs or so above the heading "The FBI alters the Dallas Police dictabelts" and continuing for some time.
https://harveyandlee.net/Tippit/Tippit.html
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7 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:
I mean, yeah, but what's this about a second paper bag? Where did this information come from? Sounds like gold if Armstrong's summary is correct.
From the online John Armstrong JFK Collection at Baylor University:

JMWAVE, anti-Castro Cubans and LHO
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