Jim Hargrove

15 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

She was Lee Oswald's girlfriend in New Orleans. No, really, she's not making it up. She has all the documents to prove it, or she did have, but they got lost or the dog ate them or something.

Well, at least Mr. B and I agree on something.  

Still waiting for Mr. B to explain how one “Lee Harvey Oswald” attended school in New York City at the very same time the other was getting educated in New Orleans.  As always, Mr. B. will post a link or 12 claiming it is all debunked somewhere else but, if it really was, surely he’d explain it here, on the JFK Debate Forum.  Obviously he doesn’t want to do so.  Why?  Because it HAS NOT been explained somewhere else.

The above New York City Board of Education record shows that LEE Harvey Oswald attended Public School 44  starting 3/23/53 and extending through mid-January 1954.

The 1953 Beauregard JHS (New Orleans) record above shows Lee Oswald attended 89 days of school during the fall semester of 1953, at the same time LEE Oswald attended PS 44 in New York City.

Mr. B wants everyone to believe this has been explained somewhere else, but he doesn’t want to explain it here.  Why?  Because it HAS NOT been explained elsewhere!

On 6/14/2021 at 10:02 AM, John Kowalski said:

Jim:

Do you have any theories about the Bolton Ford incident? Why did it happen and why was someone with Oswald's name involved in it?

John,

I think the American-born Oswald was active in U.S. political operations much of the time the Russian-speaking Oswald was in the Soviet Union.  No one knew back then that all hell would break loose on 11/22/63 and that “Lee Harvey Oswald” would ostensibly be put under a microscope.  During Oswald’s Russian adventure, his handlers surely only felt it necessary to fool a few Commie bureaucrats.

Some of the better known examples during this time (when one Oswald was in the USSR) include the American born Oswald’s work with Cuban expats in Florida and other places as described by Marita Lorenz and others, his experiences with Steve Landesberg, at least one trip to Cuba (as admitted by Hoover before it was denied) and, of course, the Bolton Ford incident.

On 6/10/2021 at 2:19 PM, John Butler said:

 

The Bolton Ford Incident from Harvey and Lee site:

The following information identifies a Lee Oswald and Joseph More as two people who wanted to buy 10 trucks.

“On January 20, 1961, while Harvey Oswald was in Minsk, two men visited the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans. They spoke with Assistant Manager Oscar Deslatte and said they were interested in purchasing 10 Ford Econoline Trucks. As one of the men discussed the purchase with Deslatte the other man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore, made a list of the equipment they desired on the trucks.

Deslatte went to his boss, truck manager Fred Sewell, and told him about the two men who wanted to purchase trucks and said they represented the "Free Democrats of Cuba or some such organization." Sewell told Deslatte to give the men a bid of $75 over their cost for the trucks. Deslatte and Sewell returned to Deslatte's desk and wrote out a bid form to Joseph Moore. As Deslatte was filling out the bid form, Joseph Moore and the other man began talking to both Deslatte and Sewell.42

When Moore saw that Deslatte had written his name on the bid form he asked that the name be changed to "Friends of Democratic Cuba." Moore's friend looked· at the form and said, "By the way, you'd better put my name down there because I'm the man handling the money." When Deslatte asked, "What's your name?" the man replied, "Lee Oswald."61-04”

And,

“Sewell described Lee Oswald as, "5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. He recalled that Oswald was clean but "wasn't well dressed and he wasn't shabby." This may not describe Harvey.  Harvey always kept his hair neatly trimmed and well groomed to hide his receding hairline.  This is evident in photos with the exception of photos at the DPD station.

Sewell described the second man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore as, "Kind of heavy-set ..... not overly, but well built ..... he was curly haired ..... he had a scar over his left eye ..... olive complexioned and seemed to be educated ..... he had a Cuban accent and looked like a Cuban."”

This description fits Harvey Oswald rather than Lee.  There are a couple of possibilities here.  It was Harvey due to the description.  It was not Harvey, but someone else who fit Harvey’s description such as Billy Seymour.  Joseph Moore had a Cuban or Latin description.

However:

The FBI didn't seem interested in Deslatte's tale, especially since Deslatte could not identify a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald an agent showed him on 11/25/63, and he was unable to give a good description of either man to the FBI. He told the Bureau that he remembered the incident because of the organization's name, not the name "Oswald." 8  "Deslatte called the FBI after the President was assassinated and after conferring with Manager Fred Sewell about "those two guys who was in here from Cuba trying to get some buses cheap."9

“Of course it makes perfect sense that Deslatte didn't think the photograph of Oswald was either "Joseph Moore" or the other man who said he was "Oswald" if the real Oswald was not in New Orleans in 1961 but in the Soviet Union.”

Even though this may have been Lee Oswald, or an Oswald double, and Harvey was in Russia, it still raises questions about the two.  This event is directly related to the folks that were running the Harvey and Lee team.

From another site:

JFK Lancer: 

The Assassination Chronicles Vol. 1, Issue 4 December 1995

The Bolton Ford Dealership Story

by Steve N. Bochan

“The official documentation on the so-called Bolton Ford Dealership episode contains a little research "gem" in the tenth volume of the HSCA hearings:  it is the name of Gerard F. Tujague. Remember this name.”

There is also another “gem” with this name mentioned and that is:

“W. Guy Banister, ex-FBI man who was once recommended by Hoover
while he headed the Chicago FBI Office, was on the Board of Directors for
this newly-formed organization.”

These two were listed as board members on a newly formed organization called FRIENDS OF DEMOCRATIC CUBA.  This organization was formed on January 6, 1961.  And, Oswald and Moore made their visit on January 20, 1961 to Bolton Ford.

FWIW, I speculate that the Russian Oswald, the Harvey who met Marina, screwed up somehow or another in the US or Russia and demonstrated unreliability.  And, by this time it was decided he would be used in a terminal fashion.  This doesn’t mean that this was related to the JFKA.  That may have developed later. 

I believe he was to be setup and eliminated due to what he knew about the Oswald Project, Oswalds in New York, Russian defection, the KGB, CIA involvement, and the U2 downed/Eisenhower/Khruschchev summit meeting.  He must have displayed some signs of unreliability.  I base this on his AWOL in New Orleans in 1958.  He could have gone over to the Russians in more than a play acting spy role.

The likely cabal of Guy Bannister, Gerald Tujague, Clay Shaw, David Ferrie, and others would be involved.  They knew this Oswald and the other.  Lee would eventually be used in the framing of Harvey.  Over time this became the JFKA.  And, that is speculation based on the reading of the facts presented.

John,

I'll try to get back to you on the marine stuff when I've had a chance to look over your material in more detail.  In the meantime, Steve Bochan’s take—that an Oswald impostor visited Bolton Ford in 1961—is probably the one that most researchers believed, at least until Harvey and Lee became well known.

There is a tremendous amount of disinformation out there about the Bolton Ford incident, probably because it proves there was something weird going on about “Lee Harvey Oswald” years before the assassination of JFK.  

Here’s the document  assistant Bolton manager Oscar Deslatte gave the FBI, which included, in writing, “Friends of Democratic Cuba,” an organization whose directors included none other than W. Guy Banister and Gerard Tugague, who employed Oswald briefly in 1955 and early 1966.  It should be noted that on Jan. 20, 1961, the date of this document, “Lee Harvey Oswald” was in the Soviet Union.

In its report allegedly dated 11/25/63, the FBI claimed Delatte could not recall ever seeing “Oswald” and could not identify his photo.  But Garrison’s investigators proved that was false simply by interviewing Mr. Deslatte’s boss, Fred Sewell.  Mr. Sewell described an entirely different story.  Here is the part of the description:

Here’s some more of what Mr. Sewell told Garrison’s investigator:

Many people, both now back in the day, want us to believe that Messrs. Sewell and Deslatte made this all up to fool Jim Garrison. But this old FBI doc,  mentioning which was surely not buried because of a mistake, proves otherwise.  Be sure to read the last sentence.

On 6/8/2021 at 9:59 AM, David Josephs said:

Hi Chris....

The only "Margaret" versus "Marguerite" is Keating whose family was meshed with the Oswald's...
The thought for some time was that maybe Keating becomes Marguerite yet I don't think that had any legs...

When Married to Ekdahl and then divorced, she supposedly requested to restore OSWALD back....  yet
the records over those next few years are a jumble going from Ekdahl to Oswald on a variety of different land documents.  I believe Ekdahl and EBASCO/GE was very involved in the fight for control of Electricity in growing Dallas-Ft Worth...  Ekdahl was in NY when Marge and little Harvey were there... FWIW

That our CDR is in the Civil Air Patrol in New Orleans is too much of a coincidence (Nice find!)

Pull one thread and 9 take it's place...  I need to read thru the thread as it's been a while...

Take care

DJ

DJ....

Good to see you here again!  Anything new?

On 5/29/2021 at 9:11 AM, John Kowalski said:

Jim:

Glad to see that you are back on the forum. Looking forward to more research from John Armstrong.

 

John,

Was saddened to read your PM.  My first thought is that we should probably just leave her alone.  Do you think any more attempted contacts would be productive?

On 6/4/2021 at 12:06 AM, John Butler said:

There is information at the Harvey and Lee site saying that Lee was discharged in March, 1959. This implies he may have entered the Marines in March, 1956 or not too much later with a 3-year enlistment or he could have obtained a 90 day early out to attend a school, Albert Schweitzer in Switzerland. Projecting forward from March 19, 1959, we have June, 1959. It could be that Lee Oswald entered the Marines in June, 1956 or earlier. This date conflicts with working at Tujaques in 1956. It also conflicts with the next entry stating that Lee Oswald was at Camp LeJeune in the Summer of 1956 with Steven R. Landesberg.

John B....

Megathanks for the detailed post.

Let's start at the beginning....

John A wrote....

Quote

Two weeks later, on November 15, he arrived in San Francisco and took military leave. Russian speaking HARVEY, at the Marine Corps base in Santa Ana, CA. had now replaced LEE, and in less than a year would "defect" to the Soviet Union as a CIA trained spy. LEE Oswald was briefly assigned to the Marine Corp jet base in El Toro, CA. and would be discharged in March, 1959.

and....

Quote

After his leave LEE Oswald was stationed at the Marine Corps jet base in El Toro, CA (5000 Marines). According to Major William P. Gorsky, Assistant Provost Marhsall at the Marine Corps Air Station at El Toro, LEE Harvey Oswald was discharged from the Marines in March, 1959. LEE OSWALD DISCHARGED FROM THE MARINES IN MARCH, 1959 IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, because HARVEY Oswald remained at the Marine Corps base in Santa Ana, CA and was not discharged from the Marine Corps until Sept. 11, 1959.

He's basing the above on the following doc.  Do you think we are reading this correctly?

Also,

Would anyone care to debate the Bolton Ford incident right here, you know, without just posting a link or two and pretending it is all debunked.

It IS NOT debunked!  The Bolton Ford incident PROVES, at the very least, that "Lee Harvey Oswald" was a creation of U.S. intel.  

If you dare, DEBUNK THAT STATEMENT HERE!

On 5/29/2021 at 9:11 AM, John Kowalski said:

Jim:

Glad to see that you are back on the forum. Looking forward to more research from John Armstrong.

 

Hi, John K!

I try to put up the latest John A research on our website:

https:\\harveyandlee.net

A few words added there are just a couple of weeks old. Several major updates have been made this year.

After a decade or so of watching it (while owned by an Asian), I've also spent the Big Bucks ($10 or so) to register the harveyandlee.com domain name.  So far, I'm only forwarding h&l.com requests to h&l.net.  Any suggestions?

Without time to follow everything here lately, but assuming there is little new news on the Tina Tippit-Brown case, I sincerely hope you will continue pursuing her notes for as long as you're able!

All the best....

On 5/26/2021 at 10:06 AM, John Butler said:

Jim,

It's good that you've come back to the forum.  You have been missed.  I have missed your logical reasoning and knowledge.

My notions of which of the two, Lee and Harvey, was the first into Russia are fairly weak.  They are based primarily on speculation, speculation of known facts, some facts that people don't consider, different interpretations of the stories about the Russian Oswald, and some speculation about the Russian interrogation of Oswald.  And, now the statement by John Newman that he was not certain that the Russian Oswald was the same as the Dallas Oswald at the DPD station.

The first thing that bothered me about the traditional Harvey and Lee interpretation of events, was looking at David Joseph's timeline there is a scarcity of evidence about Lee Oswald from the time he left the military in March, 1959 to about late 1960.  Things go really dark about Lee Oswald from Sep., 1959 to April, 1960. 

The only thing in that period is Robert Oswald's picture of Oswald hunting with Robert sometime in 1958.  I say some time in 1958 because Robert gave different dates for that photo.  At the time Lee was in Japan and there is no record in 1958 of his taking leave for Texas.    

There is the Steenberger statement saying Lee Oswald was on a Mats flight to Germany in mid-October, 1959.

There's a lot of blanks there in that time.  The second problem I had with Oswald in Russia is his interrogation by the KGB.  Not much is said about that or even hinted at.  I don't see show a defector would escape notice of the KGB.  He was obviously interrogated and the KGB would have known everything.  Oswald would not be able to hide anything from them.  So, the most suitable Oswald would be the one who knew radar technology and didn't speak Russian except at a primitive level.  Later on he was followed around by 20 or 30 spies.  That says KGB. 

IMO, stories about the early Oswald in Russia point to Lee not Harvey.  Later stories point to Harvey.

Well, you can see this is fairly weak.  But, there is enough agitation in thinking that something different is going on concerning the Russian Oswald.  Therefore, I keep an open mind on the question of who was first into Russia and when did Harvey get there. 

Oh, one other thing.  It is this new language such as "derp" and "cack" and similar suitable words to use when writing on the internet.  I suspect they are ok since most people, I assume, don't know what they mean.  I prefer the old Anglo-Saxon vulgarities.  Of course they are not suitable for print, but they can convey your feelings in much better manner than modernisms or new inventive words.    

John B,

Thanks for the kind words.  One of the reasons I think it was Harvey and NOT Lee in the USSR is that Lee was in the radar bubble in Japan near the U2 spy planes, not Harvey.  Harvey probably knew nothing of interest about the U2 flights to tell the Soviets, and so there was nothing to fear from his "defection."  Why would the Agency risk sending someone who knew U2 secrets to Russia?  It makes no sense.

Also, I paid no attention to RCD's endless repetitions of "derp" and "cack" because I never heard those words before.  Are you sure they are directly related to Anglo-Saxon vulgarities?

21 hours ago, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

Oh Joy, the Derp-A-Thon continues.  

Unable to leave unanswered the contention that Harvey & Lee has been eviscerated here, Jim re-re-re-re-re-posts ancient screeds.  Had they obtained any purchase when previously posted, it wouldn’t be necessary to do again.  

But it is necessary, because it hasn’t worked in the past.  Maybe the 100th time will prove a charm.

In an act of stunning intellectual poverty, Hargrove pits the locals hereabouts against the massively impressive firepower of uber-researchers P.D. Scott, John Newman and Bill Simpich.  They are a sage and august group.  

But they are quoted regarding events of late 1963.  Discussing evidence of adult impersonation of Oswald that predates John Armstrong’s very first musings by decades.  Given that there’s nothing new there, why is it posted?  Why, to falsely imply that these esteemed persons agree with H&L.

Please - Jim Hargrove or any other crack H&L squad member -  provide citations that any of the three above named highly respected authors have vouch-safed a CIA program to fuse two Oswalds beginning in kindergarten.  

If you cannot do so, the gentlemanly thing to do would be to admit it and apologize to a Forum membership you were clearly trying to bamboozle.  

And then apologize to Scott, Newman and Simpich for using their personae to suggest something none of the three has agreed with to date.

Oh, and your postings wouldn’t be considered derp if they were written to actually respond to points made here.  Instead, you seem to prefer drive-by postings of canned pre-fab stuff that has already proved to be unconvincing to Forum members.  You know: derp.

At what point do you just count your losses, and stop losing even more?  

Oh brother, you can see for yourself how John Newman and Peter Dale Scott are clearly respectful of the concept of Two Oswalds, and yet you demand that I apologize for pointing it out!  

It is a hoot to see the anti-H&L folks bend their rhetoric into pretzels to defend their opinions.  

23 hours ago, John Butler said:

Does this make my speculation that Lee Oswald was in Russia and Lee and Harvey were playing there usual game of "switch em" early on there.  Lee was reported to be in Germany at a similar time. 

Harvey was not a tech guy and Lee was to some extent.  Lee Oswald was the one who had aircraft maintenance training and worked in that area.  This training does not show up in the record.  But, he is reported to be doing just that in the fall of 1957 while Harvey enters the Marine Corps.  Lee Oswald was the person who visited many of the U2 bases.  Lee visited Area 51 or bases near there and important SAC radar facilities.   

How would Harvey handle being a supervisor/regulator in the experimental shop where new products were developed.  This was a person who supposedly could not drive a vehicle.

John,

This would seem to support your theory, but I still think the majority of evidence points to American-born Oswald in the southeastern U.S. and Cuba, primarily, while the Russian-speaking Oswald was in the USSR.  

The Bolton Ford incident is probably the most well-known example for researchers, but there are many others, including the Dumas and Milnes Chevy meeting with James Spencer in 1961, the Dr. Enrique Luaces’ Cuban encounter that same year,  the well-known claims by Marita Lorenz that she was with Oswald in Florida starting in late 1960, Robert Tanenbaum’s claim that he saw film of the American Oswald from that same period and locale, etc.

An examination of the whole Stephen Landesberg association with the American Oswald in early 1962 shows that Hoover was fully aware of the two Oswald program just hours after the assassination when he sent agents to examine the books of the Roosevelt Hotel in New Orleans instead of the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City, which is where the American Oswald apparently stayed.  

The very day of the assassination, Hoover wrote a memo stating that Oswald “went to Cuba on several occasions but would not tell us what he went to Cuba for.”  This is obviously a reference to the American Oswald.

On top of this evidence and more, I just can’t imagine a second Oswald, who didn’t understand Russian, being sent to the USSR.  What would the cover story be?  Would there be any real advantages?
 

The Bolton Ford Incident and the Two Oswalds

On January 20, 1961, while Harvey Oswald was in Minsk, two men visited the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans. They spoke with Assistant Manager Oscar Deslatte and said they were interested in purchasing 10 Ford Econoline Trucks. As one of the men discussed the purchase with Deslatte the other man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore, made a list of the equipment they desired on the trucks.

Deslatte went to his boss, truck manager Fred Sewell, and told him about the two men who wanted to purchase trucks and said they represented the "Free Democrats of Cuba or some such organization." Sewell told Deslatte to give the men a bid of $75 over their cost for the trucks. Deslatte and Sewell returned to Deslatte's desk and wrote out a bid form to Joseph Moore. As Deslatte was filling out the bid form, Joseph Moore and the other man began talking to both Deslatte and Sewell.42

When Moore saw that Deslatte had written his name on the bid form he asked that the name be changed to "Friends of Democratic Cuba." Moore's friend looked· at the form and said, "By the way, you'd better put my name down there because I'm the man handling the money." When Deslatte asked, "What's your name?" the man replied, "Lee Oswald."61-04



Sewell described Lee Oswald as, "5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. He recalled that Oswald was clean but "wasn't well dressed and he wasn't shabby." Sewell described the second man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore as, "Kind of heavy-set ..... not overly, but well built ..... he was curly haired ..... he had a scar over his left eye ..... olive complexioned and seemed to be educated ..... he had a Cuban accent and looked like a Cuban."

Deslatte gave the original bid form to "Lee Oswald" and kept a copy for his files, which he gave to the FBI following the assassination.61-05

http://harveyandlee.net/Comrade/Bolton.gif\

The purchaser was listed as the "Friends of Democratic Cuba," 402 St. Charles Street, New Orleans, LA., phone number JA-5-0763.43 After talking with Deslate for over an hour the two men took the original bid form and left.

NOTE: The Friends of Democratic Cuba was incorporated on January 9, 1961 in
Louisiana. The address of 402 St. Charles Street was listed as vacant in the 1960, 1961
and 1962 New Orleans City directories.

--Above excerpted from Harvey and Lee, pp. 325-326, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

Remarkable about the “Friends of Democratic Cuba” were the names of two of its officers. The image shown below is a composite scan from the beginning and the end of the Louisiana Articles of Incorporation for Friends of Democratic Cuba, Inc.



W. Guy Banister worked at the infamous 544 Camp Street address in New Orleans, made famous by the Jim Garrison investigation.

Gerard Tugague employed Oswald briefly in late 1955 and early 1956 at the 300 Sanlin Building in New Orleans.

On our website John Armstrong wrote, “This well-known incident was cited in Warren Commission Document 75 p. 677 and the House Select Committee on Assassinations Vol. X; FBI 67-39565-66. For years some JFK researchers believed that an impostor was using Oswald's name while the alleged future assassin was in Russia. As more and more examples surfaced it became clear that another man, using the name "Lee Harvey Oswald," was associating with anti-Castro Cubans and CIA operatives in the southern United States during the very years the Warren Commission placed him in the Soviet Union. This man was southern born LEE Oswald, and is a clear indication that both Oswalds were active in American intelligence operations.”There are other examples of LEE Oswald operating in the U.S. while HARVEY Oswald was in Russia. For an overview, see THIS PAGE on HarveyandLee.net.

Below is a copy of the FBI report covering this incident. Compare it to the Garrison interview excerpted above.  For more information about why the FBI report is misleading, see below.

 

http://harveyandlee.net/JH%20PIX/Deslatte1.png

 

As we’ll see immediately below, by 12/19/63 the FBI had already confirmed through a third source that “Lee Harvey Oswald” said he “was trying to get trucks for Cuba” and that Oswald had contacted Bolton Ford assistant truck manager Oscar W. Deslatte, who worked directly below truck manager Fred Sewell.  The FBI apparently tried to bury the Bolton Ford incident, but none of its members, including J. Edgar Hoover, could have predicted that Fred Sewell would be interviewed by James Alcock and Jim Garrison on May 2, 1967.

Sewell told Garrison and Alcock that he believed that one of the two men who visited the Bolton dealership in 1961 had used the name “Lee Oswald.”  Sewell then described what happened immediately after the assassination of JFK: “So when the President was assassinated and the name came out, OSCAR come in either the next morning or the morning after and said, ‘Say, Fred, do you remember those two guys who was in here from Cuba trying to get some buses cheap?’ and I said, ‘Yes.’  He said, ‘I think that one of those men was the one who killed the President.’ I said, ‘Aw your kidding’ and he said ‘We’ve got a piece of paper around here somewhere with a bid on it.’ He went and hauled that piece of paper out and the[n] OSCAR called the FBI.”

 

http://harveyandlee.net/JH%20PIX/Deslatte_to_Sewell.jpg

Sewell went on to describe how two young FBI agents came to the dealership and collected the bid that contained the name “Oswald” and “Friends of Democratic Cuba.”  “They took two pieces of plastic and they scooped it up between it and they said have you touched this and we said, well, I guess so.”   Sewell said repeatedly they they weren’t shown any pictures of Oswald by the FBI agents, but that the agents informed them that “OSWALD wasn’t even in the country at that time.  He couldn’t be.”

Sewell went on to say that the Oswald he saw at the Bolton dealership “appears to be the same man” he saw on television after the President was shot.

http://harveyandlee.net/JH%20PIX/Bolton_FBI_Denies.jpg

By Dec. 19, 1963, the SAC in New Orleans was already confirming directly to J. Edgar Hoover himself that a man named Charles Pearson, who was office manager at Graham Paper Company, had stated that his friend Oscar W. Deslatte, assistant manager of truck sales at Bolton Ford, had been contacted by Oswald about buying trucks.  Worse yet, the whole process of investigating the incident was prompted by a phone call from none other than Carlos Bringieur, the man who pretended to fight and then debate on the radio with “Lee Harvey Oswald” in August 1963 in New Orleans.

http://harveyandlee.net/JH%20PIX/Bolton_Confirm.jpg

Above material quoted or adapted from Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong and includes document reproductions from the John Armstrong Collection at Baylor University.

On 5/11/2021 at 10:34 AM, Jonathan Cohen said:

John,

Rather than getting bogged down in semantics, why not simply review the previous 86 pages of this thread, where posters like Jeremy, Robert Charles Dunne and Tracy Parnell have authoritatively shredded the Harvey and Lee theory?

Jeremy, Dunne and Parnell?  Really?  How about Peter Dale Scott and John Newman:

Peter Dale Scott and John Newman on Two Oswalds:

https://youtu.be/AhrZXO_p4QY

Above clip from 3 March, 2018 "Spy Wars" Conference, San Francisco, Part 2.

Speakers in this clip are:

Bill Simpich--BS
Peter Dale Scott – PDS
John Newman – JN

At approximately the 37:12 mark in the YouTube clip above:

BS: There’s two different genuses of false phone calls. 
PDS: Yeah, exactly.  One was a call with a lie in it, the other was an alleged call that did not, in fact, take place.
JN: The Tuesday call didn’t take place?
PDS: No, the Tuesday call did take place by a man, I’m sure, was not the Oswald we think of….
JN: Right
PDS: ... and then, by the way… this is just a question… are you absolutely convinced that the man who was “Lee Harvey Oswald” in Russia was, in fact, the man picked up in Dallas in 1963?
JN: Not at all.  And I’ve gone over to the view that in Mexico City that, maybe it’s him, maybe it’s not. So I’m not going to be dogmatic about it. He could have been there and impersonated or could have been not there at all.
PDS: ... There is a fragment of a release that says that the man who made the phone calls spoke horrible Russian AND English!  So, I do not think that was the man in Dallas….  This is completely anecdotal but I once had an hour long conversation with Marina where I was trying my hardest not to bring up the assassination.  We were talking about literature and I said did she like Henry James and she said she had never heard of Henry James, who was Henry James and I said, “Oh, he’s sort of like the American Turgenev.  And she said, “Oh, Turgenev, Alek really loved Turgenev.”  The man who checked out books from the New Orleans Public Library was not a lover of Turgenev.

9 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

It's almost comical that after nearly sixty years we're still playing these games and can't even get a straight yes or no answer on a simple three-word question: "Could Oswald drive?"

The answer is "kinda?" What kind of answer is that? He couldn't drive well enough in an empty parking lot to warrant further lessons, a month later he was driving surface streets at night and expressways at high speeds without incident, yet less than a month later he couldn't drive well enough to make a getaway after committing the crime of the century?

At what point do reasonable people drop the fantasy?

8 hours ago, Dan Troyer said:

Denny, very nice write up. 

Makes you also wonder who the 14-year-old boy was?

Mr. JENNER. Was there ever an occasion when you saw him driving up that he had the 14-year-old boy-with him?
Mr. SHASTEEN. Yes; the night he got the haircut.

Nicely put, Mr. Zartman.  I believe the truth is that there were two very different "Lee Harvey Oswalds."  One DID NOT have a drivers license and was still learning to drive when Jack Ruby killed him.  The other HAD A VALID TEXAS DRIVERS LICENSE and had driven cars for some time.

Marina and the Paines clearly testified that Oswald did not drive and did not have a driver's license. It is remarkable, then, that more than thirty people told the Warren Commission, the FBI, and/or Garrison investigators that Oswald did drive. Some of these people saw (American-born LEE) Oswald's driver's license and others described the car he was driving:

To Greg Doudna,

The WC rejected all the Sports Drome Oswald identifications for various reasons, including that one Oswald had a non Oswaldian hat and was chewing something and another drove a car, which the Commission indicated Oswald couldn’t do.  (There is, however,  a trainload of evidence that one LHO did indeed have a car and in fact had a valid Texas drivers license--see below.)

The most convincing witnesses were Dr. Homer Wood and his 13-year-old son Sterling.  In describing who they saw at the Sports Drome rifle range, both father and son independently right after the assassination recognized the man each had seen at the range just six days before the assassination. Both Dr. Wood and his son testified and were convincing witnesses. 

The Woods were so believable Sylvia Meagher considered the possibility that LHO was indeed at the range that day.  The trouble is, Ms. Meagher wrote on an earlier page of her book that the FBI collected rifle shells from various locations, “including 23 pounds of shells from the Sports Drome Rifle Range… [but] failed to turn up a single shell that came from the Carcano alleged to belong to Oswald. (CE 3049)”  

On the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership: According to the Warren Commission, Classic Oswald® did not have a drivers license.  But Texas law required a drivers license to test drive any automobile. Ball certainly should have asked Bogard if he checked LHO’s drivers license but, of course, he didn’t. Have you ever heard of anyone from an automobile dealership handing car keys to a driver without first seeing a license? There is an obvious explanation.

One of the LHOs DID have a drivers license.

The LHO who had a Texas drivers license was seen by many people hanging around with Jack Ruby, including during the summer of 1963 when Classic Oswald® was still in New Orleans.  

For just one example, consider the 10-page FBI report on a 1977 interview with a Ruby employee named Odell “James” Estes.  Estes told the FBI he worked at the Carousel Club from the last week in June until Sept. 2, 1963. 

Estes said he saw “Lee Oswald” at the Carousel Club many times during his employment there, including in Jack Ruby’s office.  He said he once drove Oswald to Love Field and even took two overnight fishing trips with Oswald to a lakeside cabin near Mineral Wells.  He described lengthy talks with this Oswald.  Since he (Estes) stopped working at the club on Sept. 2, he was quite certain that the two fishing trips, just a week apart, were both in August 1963.

Of course, in August 1963, Classic Oswald® was still in New Orleans.  Despite this depiction of “Oswald” being in New Orleans and Dallas simultaneously, an FBI cover memo states that Estes was “willing to submit to a polygraph examination” and “talked very coherently and did not evidence the mannerisms frequently associated with a mentally disturbed individual.”  It should be noted that although the 1977 FBI report indicated Estes was “80 percent blind,” in 1963 he could see well enough to drive a car.

A 10-page report on Odell Estes’ FBI interview can be read on the Mary Ferrell site at the link below:

Odell Estes FBI Report

On 9/9/2020 at 3:58 AM, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Robert Charles-Dunne writes:

There's a remarkable number of things which can be explained plausibly without needing to use the 'Harvey and Lee' double-doppelganger theory:

(a) Oswald's impersonation in Mexico City and Dallas - no doppelgangers are required in order to explain this.

Except for the fact that there was OBVIOUSLY a false Oswald in Mexico City, though it may only have been on paper.  So what?

Quote

(b) The framing of Oswald for the assassination, before and after the event - no doppelgangers required.

Of course doppelgangers were required.  Who else showed up at the Sports Drome range all those times?

“Oswald” visits the Sports Drome Rifle Range on Oct. 26, Nov. 9, Nov. 10, and again on Nov. 17, several times creating a scene and once shooting at another guy's target;

On Nov. 2 “Oswald” visits Morgan's Gun Shop in Fort Worth.

Also on Nov. 2 “Oswald” visits the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership where he test drives a car at wrecklessly high speeds saying he would soon come into enough money to buy a new car.

On Nov. 6 or 7 “Oswald” visits the Irving Furniture Mart for a gun part and is referred to the shop where Dial Ryder works.

On Nov. 15, “Oswald” goes to the Southland Hotel parking garage (Allright Parking Systems) and applies for a job and asks how high the Southland Building is and if it had a good view of downtown Dallas.

On Nov. 20 “Oswald” hitch-hikes on the R.L. Thornton Expressway while carrying a 4 foot long package wrapped in brown paper and introduces himself to Ralph Yates as “Lee Harvey Oswald,” discusses the President's visit, and asks to be dropped across the street from the Texas School Book Depository (where Russian-speaking “Lee Harvey Oswald” is already working).

For that matter, who showed up at Robert McKeown's on Labor Day weekend trying to buy rifles from Castro's gun dealer?

Quote

(c) The assassination itself and the murder of Officer Tippit - no doppelgangers required.

You're kidding, right?  Which Oswald killed Tippit while the other was already seated inside the Texas Theater?

Quote

(d) The assassination as a conspiracy - no doppelgangers required.

Even Sylvia Meagher half a century ago knew a doppelganger was involved.

Quote

(e) Oswald's leaving the book depository after the assassination - no doppelgangers required.

Except for the fact that one doppelganger left Dealey Plaza on a bus and in a taxi, while the other took a Nash Rambler station wagon.

Quote

(f) Oswald's connection with one or more intelligence agencies - no doppelgangers required.

Except for the fact that the whole Russian "defection" was an intelligence operation giving an American ID to a Russian-speaking kid. 

Quote

(g) Oswald's false defection - no doppelgangers required.

Except for the fact that the FBI's J. Edgar Hoover suspected an imposter was using LHO's birth certificate. See the last line in this memo:

Quote

(h) Oswald's knowledge of Russian - no doppelgangers required.

Except for the fact that a Russian-speaking doppelganger WAS required.  See Dr. Norwood's write-up.

OSWALD'S RUSSIAN LANGUAGE PROFICIENCY

Quote

None of these things require the existence of a long-term double-doppelganger scheme. The theory adds nothing worthwhile to our understanding of the assassination.

Other than the obvious fact that there were two Oswalds.

Quote

On the plus side, it does give the more paranoia-inclined folks a nice big conspiracy to play with. Against this, it allows lone-nut enthusiasts to portray all critics of the lone-nut theory, even the non-paranoid ones, as a bunch of crackpots (e.g. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/2oswalds.htm) .

You finally cite Mr. McAdams, eh?  Why not just salute the Warren Commission Report and call it a day?

Also for RCD....

Wesley Frazier, who said that he was talking with some women a few minutes after the shooting at the corner of Elm and Houston, said he saw Oswald as he walked south on Houston St. Frazier said that he saw Oswald cross Houston St., begin walking east on Elm St., and disappear into the crowd. 

CLICK HERE for Wesley Frazier interview (pertinent part starts at 33:00, but please continue to watch for a couple of minutes).

Note that both the Beckley and the Marsalis buses arrived at the TSBD on Elm Street.

On 9/9/2020 at 6:17 PM, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

This is truly rich.

Having spent decades accusing DPD, FBI, SS and others of having forged, suppressed and altered evidence in this case (with ample cause), you now claim we can believe the self-same parties, because it suits you.

Having repeatedly accused people who disagree with you of siding with the Warren Commission, you now cite as expert witness testimony some of the least credible people and regurgitate uncritically what was said to, and presented by, the Warren Commission.  Because it suits you.

What I do is present the evidence John A. has found for two Oswalds, evidence which flows through this case like a river.  I said previously that there is considerable evidence for the bus and taxi ride, as well as for the Nash Rambler getaway, and there is—for both. You say the bus and taxi evidence is fraudulent, and, we can both agree, the Nash Rambler evidence should have been investigated.

Quote

Like you, I have wondered for decades how Stuart Reed was in a position to take the photos he did.  Unlike you, I don’t speculate that because Reed took two photos of a bus, it must have contained an Oswald.

If you are aware of anything in those two photos--other than that bus--that is relevant to this case, please let me know. Why else would Reed have taken those shots?

Below are WC photos of McWatters’ bus.  Compare them to the images Reed took (in my post above).

Quote

Anyone giving a fair reading to testimony from Bledsoe, McWatters and Jones comes away wondering how they can be describing the same person.  (They weren’t.)

You wouldn’t expect a bus driver in those crowded circumstances to remember much about one passenger, and McWatters clearly didn’t.  Oswald sat behind Jones, and it is amazing that Jones remembered anything at all about him.  I think the best witness was Bledsoe, but I’m aware of the theories about her complicity. Notably, McWatters, Bledsoe, and Jones ALL remembered the blond lady getting on the bus at the same time as Oswald and getting off the bus at the same time as Oswald. This was not part of the WC narrative, but all three witnesses remembered it.  Both the woman and Oswald, apparently, were given bus transfers by McWatters.

Bus and taxi critics always concentrate on the bus ride, but they often fail to even address William Whaley’s description of Oswald in his taxi.  You would expect a taxi driver to remember more about his rider, and Whaley clearly did.  Note how well he described Oswald’s bracelet.

Quote

Perhaps you'd care to explain how it came to be that a person wishing to go westbound would walk eastbound to do so.  Knowing there was a bottleneck in traffic because he'd just walked through it.  Perhaps you could explain why he allegedly caught the bus directly in front of the Rio Grande building (which housed the local military intelligence offices.)

Because he was instructed to get on that bus, probably by Bill Shelley, who we believe was the last person to see him—by plan--in the TSBD.

Quote

Unlike you, I don’t believe the DPD was so slipshod as to book Oswald as a prisoner, yet fail for several hours to remove from his person some bullets and a bus transfer.

Agreed.

Quote

On the contrary, it is far more likely those things were taken from Oswald upon being brought to DPD HQ.  Giving the DPD an almost immediate clue as to which bus Oswald was alleged to have taken.  (Given that it was in the pocket of someone who'd been wrestled to submission by a half dozen cops, it sure was in pristine condition.)

Yeah, but it had been folded, at least. You can see the folds most easily on the back side.

Quote

But how and why would Oswald have possession of a bus transfer, if he wasn’t on the bus?  

Perhaps for the same reason he carried someone else’s old pay-stub from American Bakeries, two  halves of 2 different dollar bills, and a boxtop.  

He never worked for American Bakeries, had no conceivable innocent use for two halves of 2 different dollar bills, and carried a boxtop for reasons that likewise defy easy resolution.    

I will leave open room for an alternate explanation: unable to accept any accomplices, per Roger Craig and corroborating witnesses,(that LHO was driven out of the plaza in a Nash Rambler station wagon) DPD procured a bus transfer and claimed it was taken from Oswald.  

Just hours later.  Because that took a few hours to do.  (And explains its pristine condition.)

Why?  

Because each and every institution responsible for preventing the assassination would look inept, or worse, should it prove true that Craig witnessed Oswald being driven away by a co-conspirator.  Guys like Craig were sidelined, for obvious reasons.  No one needed Katzenbach to spell it out for them.  Train, boat, plane, taxi, bus, hovercraft.... just not a Nash Rambler driven by a confederate.

Yeah, especially if it was for the Other Oswald, you know, the one you needed to hide.

Quote

I’m particularly bemused to see you accept Capt. Fritz’s word on anything.  He was, after all, the same chap who said Oswald had confessed to retrieving and carrying the gun (for no apparent reason, it’s just what guys do) that allegedly killed Tippit.

Yes, this is a pivotal issue.  Do you think Hill, McDonald, Carroll, and undoubtedly others I’m forgetting all lied about Oswald’s .38 in the Texas Theater?   

Quote

Is it your position that Oswald made such an admission to Fritz?  I’d appreciate an answer to that question.

It makes sense IF Oswald carried a .38 into that theater.  Are you sure he didn’t?

I’ve wondered for years about Hill’s testimony when he said he turned around in the squad car and asked Oswald if the pistol was his.  According to Hill, Oswald replied, “No, it is the suspect’s.”

Sheesh!  That is such a weird answer I can’t believe it was planted.  Who could the suspect have been?

Quote

(In citing both Fritz and Craig - whose own stories conflicted severely - you pick what you wish from each and disregard the rest.)

I ask only because I’ve noticed a recurring phenomenon among the H&L camp.  You don’t always agree with John, and DJ doesn’t always agree with you, and Doc doesn’t always agree with DJ and Sandy doesn’t always agree with Doc.  

With so many like-minded people opting to freelance hither and yon, what is one to think?  If there isn’t agreement among yourselves, why do you expect it from those who haven’t bought into the theory?

Why should we all agree on everything?  We’re not communists.  I do think we all agree that John A. has made some breakthrough research on LHO and that, at the very least, there are serious problems with the Official Biography® of “Lee Harvey Oswald.”

Quote

And after several decades, why do you think so few people have embraced the hypothesis?

You H&L critics keep saying that. Do you EVER update your talking points, or do you endlessly just keep on repeating the same old critiques? The evidence clearly disproves your claim.  In recent years, three books have been released based on Harvey and Lee, and I can tell you that a fourth is well in the works and the author has been putting out serious queries for months.  Hundreds of thousands of people have watched feature-film length YouTube videos based entirely on John’s interviews with Len Osanic on Black Ops Radio.  A number of the longest threads ever posted on the Ed Forum are about Harvey and Lee.

A few months ago I wrote: Just two feature-film length video talks by John Armstrong posted on YouTube by “MrChrillemannen” have a total of more than 615,000 views, up about a hundred thousand since I last checked three months ago. The videos are:

Captain Westbrook, officer Tippit and Oswald's double

and

Who impersonated Lee Harvey Oswald?

Even more significantly, recently at least three books have been published, two based almost exclusively on Harvey and Lee, and one based partly on it.

Three other books based on “Harvey and Lee:”  

The JFK Assassination and the Uncensored Story of the Two Oswalds

From an Amazon review: “I'd read a good chunk of Armstrong's Harvey and Lee, but Shannan provided clarity for me on the matter of Marguerite Oswald in particular and the whole thesis in general. So much easier to read this digest than the master's unedited tome.”

DOPPELGANGER: The Legend of Lee Harvey Oswald

From the publisher’s blurb: “More than 300 sources, including many sworn testimonies & affidavits, were consulted, as well as John Armstrong’s massive research project HARVEY AND LEE. One fact led to another, until a coherent picture began to emerge from the immense pile of puzzle pieces…. That picture includes the background of Harvey as a juvenile immigrant fluent in Russian, and the creation of the second ‘Lee Harvey Oswald’ and the second ‘Marguerite Oswald.’ The picture continues with the recruitment of both Lee Oswald and Harvey Oswald by the ONI and the CIA, followed by Harvey’s assumption of Lee’s identity, his ‘defection’ to Russia, and Lee’s involvement with the Cuban revolution and the CIA..…”

Mistaken Identity

From the publisher’s blurb:  "New forensic and evidentiary material not published, proves that two individuals known as "Lee Harvey Oswald" enlisted in the U.S. Marines in 1956 using the same birth certificate. Recent genealogical research identifies them as second cousins through intermarriage of second-generation French families in New Orleans. It created a nightmare of identity for the FBI."

22 hours ago, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

Jim:

As you know, I’ve tried wherever possible to give John Armstrong his due, while nevertheless being underwhelmed by his grand hypothesis.  

Some of your scattershot list of questions are quite interesting, while others are simply straw men.  

Example:

There is no “remarkable amount of evidence that LHO left Dealey Plaza on a bus and then a taxi.”  There are tell-tale signs of evidentiary fraud committed by DPD, FBI, SS, et al, in order to avoid investigating a Nash Rambler station wagon.  

Why?  

Such LHO confederates as a driver would require a conspiracy, so best to fit lone gunman LHO up using non-witnesses like Whaley, McWatters and Bledsoe.  

This kind of stuff was torn to shreds by astute minds shortly after the Report was released.  How is this question, just for an example, pertinent?  Are you suggesting three different Oswalds fled from the TSBD via three different methods?

But the single most important detail is that nothing on your list of questions requires, let alone demonstrates, the necessity of a doppelganger project, never mind one that had already been in the works for a decade.

That adult imposture of LHO is demonstrable does not require it to have begun in kindergarten.

 

The evidence for the bus and taxi ride is far stronger than you suggest.  One Oswald apparently left Dealey Plaza in that Nash Rambler wagon, but the other was clearly instructed to take the Marsalis bus.  Why else would U.S. Army civilian employee Stuart Reed have taken two pictures of that bus on the same roll of film he used with remarkable prescience to take those pictures at the TSBD and the Texas Theater? Stuart Reed images:

On our website, John A. wrote up a series of points for critics of the bus and taxi ride to consider.  Sorry for the lengthy cut and paste, but this list is included near the bottom of a very long page on HarveyandLee.net.

III. NAYSAYERS

There are some people who believe the bus ride never happened, and that the entire story of the bus ride was fabricated. In order to reach their conclusions these people focus attention on witnesses whose memories are less than perfect, and then continuously criticize these people in an attempt to destroy their credibility. These people often misread witness statements and testimony. They criticize documents without thoroughly understanding what they are reading. Their cited "sources" are often not sources at all and, in some cases, are non-existent. They (naysayers) do this in an attempt to develop and promote their own preconceived ideas and theories. However, when their work is closely scrutinized, it becomes apparent that many of these naysayers have not done their homework. For example:

• Naysayers criticize bus driver Cecil McWatters because he could not positively identify (HARVEY) Oswald as a passenger on his bus. Naysayers ignore McWatters' description of this one passenger and his clothing—a man who rode in the middle of the bus for only 4 minutes. These naysayers forget there were perhaps dozens of bus passengers on several of McWatters' bus runs on 11/22/63, yet they endlessly criticize him for not remembering details about this one passenger.

• Naysayers criticize the testimony and memory of Milton Jones, who remembered Oswald as a passenger and remembered his light blue jacket and grey pants. Naysayers conveniently forget that Oswald sat behind Jones, and only saw Oswald for a few seconds when he boarded and got off McWatters' bus.

• Naysayers criticize the testimony and memory of Oswald's former landlady Mary Bledsoe, who described Oswalds dark brown shirt, the hole in the sleeve, and the missing buttons very well. Naysayers believe that Oswald changed the shirt he wore to work at his rooming house before he went to the theater, relying on the reports of Kelley and Bookhout. Therefore, naysayers criticize Bledsoe because her description of the shirt matches the shirt Oswald was wearing at the theater when arrested.

• Naysayers claim that Oswald changed his shirt at his rooming house, citing the reports of Kelley and Bookhout, who wrote that Oswald removed a reddish-colored, long-sleeved shirt with a button down collar and placed it in the lower drawer of his dresser. The problem with their reports is that Oswald did not own a reddish-colored, long-sleeved shirt with a button down collar. He did own one, and only one, reddish-brown shirt, but this shirt did not have a button down collar (CE 150) and this was the shirt Oswald was wearing when arrested in the Texas Theater. All of Oswald shirts were listed in DPD inventory. In the Warren Volumes these shirts are photographed and identified as WC #150 & 151 & 152-all long sleeved, and not one shirt is reddish-colored, long-sleeved, with a button down collar. WC # 153 & 154 & 155 & 160 are all short sleeved shirts. Oswald could not have removed a reddish-colored, long-sleeved shirt with a button down collar, because he didn't own such a shirt. Oswald did remove one shirt and put it in his dresser drawer, as he told Capt. Fritz. This was his dirty white t-shirt, soiled around the collar.

• Naysayers criticize Mary Bledsoe and say that she did not see Oswald on the bus, because she saw “only a glimpse of him.” Naysayers forget that Oswald rented one of 3 bedrooms in her home and she saw him on a daily basis only 5 weeks before the assassination. He talked on the telephone constantly and interrupted her naps. Mrs. Bledsoe remembered that Oswald often spoke in a foreign language on her telephone. She was very familiar with Oswald's face and physique. Mrs. Bledsoe only needed a “glimpse” of (HARVEY) Oswald to recognize him instantly.

• Naysayers constantly criticize Bledsoe and Jones and Whaley for their less than perfect memories. But Oswald was only in their presence for a mere 4-6 minutes. Naysayers conveniently forget that Bledsoe and Jones and Whaley all remembered that Oswald wore light colored grey pants on the bus and taxi. Oswald told Capt. Fritz that he had changed his dirty trousers (light colored grey pants) in his room. When arrested, Oswald was wearing very dark pants. His dirty light colored grey pants were later found in his room by police. How could Bledsoe and Jones and Whaley have known Oswald was wearing light grey pants on the bus/taxi unless they had personally seen him?

• Naysayers claim that McWatters never gave Oswald a bus transfer. If McWatters never gave bus transfer #004459 to Oswald, then perhaps naysayers would care to explain why Dallas Police called the Dallas Transit Division Superintendent. Explain how Mr. F.F. Yates was able to immediately identify McWatters as the driver who issued the bus transfer. Do the naysayers expect us to believe that Dallas Transit supervisors were coerced into going along with a fabricated story that the bus ride never happened?

• Naysayers ignore the fact that transfer #004459 came from McWatters' transfer book. They ignore McWatters' testimony that he remembered giving a transfer to Oswald and a transfer to a blond haired lady when both were getting off the bus. Naysayers ignore Mary Bledsoe's testimony that she spoke briefly with the blond lady when McWatters gave her a transfer. How would Oswald know about a blond-haired lady on McWatters bus unless he had ridden on that bus?

• Naysayers claim the bus transfer at the National Archives does not have a crease in the middle, so it was never folded and put in Oswald's pocket. Naysayers ignore the fact that National Archivist Steve Hamilton confirmed that the bus transfer has a crease in the middle, indicating that it had at one time been folded.

• Naysayers question the number of transfers given out by McWatters on 11/22/63. They know the first transfer McWatters issued was #004452, and they know the police found transfer #004459 in Oswald's shirt pocket. They claim, correctly, that McWatters gave out 8 transfers (#004452 to #004459). But they then claim that because McWatters told the WC that he gave out only two transfers, that 6 transfers were “missing.” Once again, these naysayers are simply misreading testimony. McWatters told the WC, “Yes, sir; I gave him one [bus transfer] about two blocks from where he got on [at Griffin]...that is the transfer because it had my punch mark on it....I gave only two transfers going through town on that trip [going through town on that trip!] and that was at the one stop of where I gave the lady and the gentlemen that got off the bus, I issued two transfers....But that was the only two transfers were issued [on that ONE trip thru town]. Very simple. McWatters issued six transfers prior to picking up Oswald and the blond lady (prior to 12:40 PM). He then issued a transfer to the blond lady and a transfer to Oswald when they got off the bus (circa 12:44 PM).

• Oswald told Capt. Fritz and his interrogators about a blond woman asking William Whaley to call her a taxi, just after Oswald got into Whaley's taxi. William Whaley told the WC the same story--that just after Oswald got into the front seat of his taxi, a blond lady asked him to call a taxi for her. How is it possible that Oswald's and Whaley's stories match perfectly, unless the taxi ride acutally happened and was remembered by both Oswald and Whaley?

• Naysayers conveniently forget that Oswald's reference to a blond-haired lady, which he told to Capt. Fritz and numerous law enforcement officers during interrogations, was also remembered by Cecil McWatters, Mary Bledsoe, and Roy Milton Jones.

• Naysayers criticize William Whaley for saying that Oswald had a silverlike strip on his shirt. Naysayers ignore and intentionally overlook that Whaley also said Oswald was wearing a brown long-sleeve shirt and a t-shirt with a soiled collar.

• Naysayers criticize William Whaley because he said Oswald's bracelet was a “stretchband,” when it looks like a “chain link” bracelet. But naysayers, once again, should do their homework. Oswald's bracelet is listed on a DPD property form, found in Box 1, folder 8, item 1 at the Dallas Archives. It is identified as "One I.D. stretch band with 'Lee' inscribed.” Naysayers also fail so explain how Whaley could have known that Oswald was wearing any kind of silver-colored bracelet, unless he saw the bracelet himself on Oswald's left arm while riding in his taxi.

• Naysayers criticize William Whaley when he said that he drove Oswald to Neches and Beckley, because this address is non-existent. Naysayers conveniently fail to remember that Oswald instructed Whaley to drive to the 500 block of N. Beckley. As Whaley was driving south on N. Beckley, Oswald said “this will do.” Whaley then stopped randomly in the street, at an unknown address, and Oswald got out of his taxi. Whaley wrote “500 N. Beckley” in his manifest because that is what he remembered Oswald told him when he first got into his taxi.

• Naysayers criticize William Whaley because he wrote down the time of Oswald's taxi ride incorrectly in his manifest. Naysayers conveniently forget that Whaley explained to the WC that he always wrote the times of his taxi rides in 15-minute intervals. And said that he often wrote two, three, or four of these entries in his manifest at the same time, long after the taxi rides. Whaley said that when he got back to the Union Terminal he made an entry of the trip (to N Beckley) on his manifest for the day.

• Naysayers criticize taxi driver William Whaley for naming the number 3 man in the police lineup as Oswald, when he was identified by the police as the number 2 man. Naysayers ignore the explanation that Whaley gave to the WC. Whaley simply said that LHO, walking from left to the right, was the 3^rd man brought out for the lineup. From left to right, according to the police, Oswald was the #2 man.

• Naysayers criticize and criticize these witnesses over the smallest of details, in an attempt to “prove” that the bus and taxi ride never happened. This is the extent of their “research.”

• Naysayers ignore the fact that Capt. Fritz and many law enforcement officers heard Oswald say that he rode a bus, got a bus transfer, got into a taxi, offered to let a blond-haired lady have his taxi, and paid an 85 cent fare. The facts are that Mary Bledsoe and Roy Milton Jones testified that Oswald was on McWatters bus, transfer #004459 was found in Oswald's shirt pocket, William Whaley testified that Oswald rode in his taxi, that Oswald offered to let a blond-haired lady have his taxi, and that Oswald paid 95 cents in taxi fare. Witness testimony and evidence match pretty well with what Oswald told his interrogators.

• Naysayers criticize, criticize, and criticize these witnesses for not having perfect memories. Yet these naysayers never produce a single document or a single witness by which to prove the taxi and bus ride never happened. Nor can they offer an ounce of PROOF as to what they think COULD HAVE happened—only speculation, fantasies, and daydreams.

To these naysayers, I would ask them to simply identify the person or persons who came up with the idea to fabricate a story in which the bus and taxi rider never happened. I would ask them to name the person or persons who had the knowledge, presence, and ability to fabricate such a hoax within hours of Oswald's arrest..

I would remind naysayers that Oswald himself said during his first and second interrogations that he rode a bus, long before the police knew about Cecil McWatters. And Oswald made these statements in the presence of Capt. Fritz, James Hosty, Thomas Kelley, James Bookhout, and numerous officers. These people took notes, made reports, and/or gave WC testimony about statements made by Oswald. These naysayers would have us believe that a person or persons unknown convinced all of these people (SS agents Kelley, Nully and Forrest: FBI agents Hosty, Grant, Odum and Bookout; US Marshall Nash; Capt Fritz, DPD officers Sims, Boyd, Turner, Hall, Dhority, Owens, Leavelle, and Senkel, taxi driver Whaley, bus driver McWatters, bus passengers Bledsoe and Jones, bus and taxi officials) to lie and go along with a fabricated story that the bus and taxi ride never happened. But no matter how much evidence researchers produce to prove that Oswald rode on a bus and in a taxi on 11/22/63, we can be sure that irresponsible naysayers can and will find the most trivial, superficial, and inconsequential reasons to continue their criticism.

Rather than nit-pick the statements and memories of witnesses who saw “Lee Harvey Oswald” riding in either the station wagon, bus, or taxi, naysayers should study the overwhelming amount of evidence that shows there were two “Lee Harvey Oswalds” who looked very similar. At 12:40 PM LEE Oswald got into a Nash Rambler station wagon in front of the TSBD, while HARVEY Oswald was getting into McWatters' city bus at Elm and Griffin. An hour and a half later HARVEY Oswald was arrested, handcuffed, and sitting in a room at Dallas Police headquarters. When Capt Fritz pointed to Roger Craig and said to Oswald, “This man saw you leave....what about the car?” Oswald replied, “that station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine.....” HARVEY Oswald dared not say any more, but his statement about Mrs. Paine and a station wagon shows that he knew a lot more than what he told his interrogators .

3 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Could Jim please explain why he requires Oswald to have been a native speaker of Russian when 'Harvey and Lee' doctrine does not require this?

As I already said in this post, we do not REQUIRE that LHO learned Russian as a child, but simply believe that is what happened through a process of elimination. Here is part of what I said:

In October 1959 one LHO returned to the U.S. and was assigned to MACS 9 in Santa Ana, where he suddenly demonstrated so much interest in and understanding of Russia and the Russian language that some of his fellow Marines called him “Oswaldovitch.”  He took a Russian language test and got more questions right than wrong.   Rosaleen Quinn, who was studying Russian in a Berlitz course, told the Warren Commission that “Oswald spoke Russian well.”  Erwin Donald Lewis said, in an affidavit: “It was a matter of common knowledge among squadron members that he could read, write, and speak Russian.”

So the question becomes, When did this LHO learn Russian?  Some people believe that Oswald was given a crash course in Russian while stationed at Atsugi and the Philippines.  One of the men who served with this Oswald (actually American-born LEE) for nearly a year was Zack Stout.  In 1995 John A. asked this Mr. Stout if Oswald spoke or studied Russian while in Japan. Zack answered, "Where do people come up with these stupid ideas. That's ridiculous. No, he never spoke Russian or had a Russian book or a Russian newspaper. If he had any of those things, all of us would have known about it."

Zack Stout

John also interviewed Richard Bullock, who worked with LEE Oswald in Japan.  Bullock said, "He was NOT the guy I saw in the picture on TV shot by Jack Ruby." He said that the LEE Oswald he knew wore glasses and “looks nothing like him. That's not the man I knew. The man I knew was 30-40 pounds heavier and 3-4 inches taller than the man accused of killing President Kennedy.”

Richard Bullock

Forum member William Kelley also interviewed Mr. Bullock.  See his interview here.

In the months before being stationed in Japan, Classic Oswald® was stationed briefly at various locations in the U.S., and, according to the soldiers who lived and worked with him, was actually in those places.  There is no indication that he even had a chance to study the Russian language while moving about in these various assignments.

So, where did this 9th grade dropout learn Russian?  Through a process of elimination, we think it is most likely that he learned it as a child.  After he lived in Russia for two and a half years, Harvey Oswald returned to the U.S. with his Russian wife.  There, many people remarked about how good his Russian language skills were. De Mohrenschildt, in particular, noted his remarkable fluency, but also noted that he made grammatical errors, just as you would expect from someone who learned a language at an early age and then abandoned it for a decade or so.

Mr. Cohen,

If people like you tried half as hard to discredit the Warren Commission as you work to criticize H&L and me, we might get somewhere.  I deliberately picked a series of non-H&L points above, all critical of the Official Story®, to see if RCD would agree with them; to see if we had any common ground.  Clearly, you are more interested in picking a fight.

You and a couple of others here often say we don’t answer questions even when we do.  In this post, Sandy Larson pointed out that Jeremy Bojczuk refused to acknowledge his answer.  In this post, RCD complained I didn’t answer his comments although I posted answers I had made to him at least four different times in recent days.  Although I made a similar post twice, RCD never acknowledged it.

By all means, stick to your talking points.  Ignore the treachery of the U.S. government about the assassinations of the 1960s and just complain about me.  Brilliant, and so brave!

John,

I emailed John A. your questions and here are his responses (in red):

Jim:

Did Buleau Bratton say how she became Marguerite's roommate? NO Did she meet her through a mutual acquaintance or did either she or Marguerite respond to an ad for a roommate? DID NOT ASK Did she say at what address and when they lived together? NO, DID NOT ASK. I WAS CONCENTRATING ON MARGUERITE'S SPEAKING A FOREIGN LANGUAGE ON THE PHONE LATE AT NIGHT. Was it Marguerite's or Buleau's place? MARGUERITE'S, I THINK. Was Harvey living with them as well and if yes did she say about him? NO, REMEMBER THAT HARVEY JOINED THE MARINES IN OCT, 1956, NEVER VISITED MARGUERITE ON LEAVE, AND ONLY SPENT ONE NIGHT AT HER APARTMENT IN SEPT, 1959 BEFORE LEAVING FOR THE SOVIET UNION, RETURNING IN JUNE, 1962

Questions for RCD:

Do you suppose we could agree on any of the following?

1.  As John A. showed more than two decades ago, the Magic Money Order® for “Oswald’s rifle” had no bank endorsements at all and was, therefore, not cashed.

2. J. Edgar Hoover failed to publicly declare the price paid for the Magic Rifle® until a week AFTER he determined the handwriting on the Magic Money Order was indeed LHO’s.

3.  The Social Security Administration failed to acknowledge ANY of LHO’s pre-Marine employment income and, in fact, failed to recognize his income from the U.S. Marines.

4.  The CIA, despite enormous pressure to do so, failed to produce a photograph of LHO—any LHO—from the pulse cameras and backup cameras focused on the entrances of the Cuban and Russian embassies/consulates in Mexico City in 1963?

5.  There is a remarkable amount of evidence that LHO both did and didn’t drive a car and both did and didn’t have a valid Texas drivers license.

6.  There is a remarkable amount of evidence that LHO left Dealey Plaza on a bus and then a taxi and, at almost the same moment, left Dealey Plaza in a Nash Rambler station wagon.

7. The shots that killed JFK probably came from his front, rather than his back.

8. Not one “investigation” sponsored by the USG cared about ANY of this.

I was just wondering if we could agree on ANY of this.

As usually happens when he is talking about anything other than the mastoidectomy (which isn’t very often), Mr. Bojczuk waxes philosophical with a silly argument or two and then, when no one bothers to respond, declares victory for the 390th time against the Harvey and Lee Menace®.  He is clearly more interested in dwelling on what DIDN’T happen rather than discussing what the evidence shows DID happen.

Breathlessly announcing that there was more than one potential way to send an American spy who secretly understood the Russian language to the Soviet Union, and discovering no one cared enough about his “discovery” to respond, Mr. Bojczuk pretends he has vanquished all other analyses.  This is just another rhetorical trick.

It’s like saying O.J. Simpson couldn’t have been the murderer because he wouldn’t have chosen to wear those rare Bruno Magli shoes to the murder scene where the bloody shoe prints would help establish his guilt.  Logically, he wouldn’t have done that, and so he must be innocent!

This is why most detectives are more interested in evidence than in philosophy and psychology.  It is far more instructive to concentrate on what DID happen rather than what DIDN’T.  

The evidence shows that LHO gave little or no indication that he understood or was interested in understanding the Russian language before he was stationed at Santa Ana in late October, 1958.  Yet, just four months later, he got more questions right than wrong in an extensive Russian language test and soon had a lengthy conversation, in Russian, with Rosaleen Quinn.

Mr. Bojczuk and the Warren Commission desperately want you to believe that LHO acquired these Russian language skills in four months with no formal training whatsoever, just with the assistance of a Russian literature and an American-Russian dictionary.  What a crock!
 

John,

I couldn't remember the details, but I finally found this post I made here in 2017:

Back when he was researching Harvey and Lee, John visited the Fort Worth Independent School District and got a list of teachers at Stripling and Ridglea West Elementary School. From the list, he managed to call Mrs. Buleau Bratton, LHO’s teacher at Ridglea West.

John said that Mrs. Bratton spoke for quite a while about Oswald and eventually said that she had shared a small apartment briefly with “Marguerite Oswald” (the impostor). Mrs. Bratton said that late at night, after midnight, she overheard Marguerite talking on the phone in a foreign language.  John suddenly became very interested in the conversation.

He asked Mrs. Bratton if Marguerite had been speaking in Spanish, and she said no.  He then asked her if the language could have been German, and Ms. Bratton responded that she knew a little German and it didn’t seem to be the language her roommate was using.  Mrs. Bratton indicated that she did not recognize the language at all—not a single word, but that she heard Marguerite speak on the phone late at night in the foreign tongue several times when Marguerite thought she was sleeping.

Could the language Mrs. Bratton heard Marguerite speak have been Russian? We'll probably never know. Because it is difficult to say anything definitive about this information, John did not include the story in either his book or the website, but I’ll always wonder if phony Marguerite might have been speaking in Russian.