Jim Hargrove

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I found the post where Jim mentioned the 41 teachers. It's right here. Jim didn't make any claims or conclusions whatsoever regarding the list of 41 and only mentioned them in passing because you had demanded how John Armstrong should have questioned them , and in reply Jim told you only what John's goal was for the list.

Had you treated Jim with respect, he might have been willing to contact John to get clarification on the responses he got from the teachers he was able to contact. Or maybe find that information in John's notes. But as it stands now, the only information you're liable to get is what is published in John's book.

 

Though Jim isn't obligated to say anything about the 41, I'll tell you what John wrote in his book about contacting them:

After many hours of long distance telephone calls, I managed to contact a surprising number of former Stripling teachers, although many were deceased. One man I spoke with was Mark Summers, a former gym teacher, who began his 10-year tenure at Stripling in September 1950, one year after Robert Oswald graduated from the school (1949). Mr. Summers said that "Lee Harvey Oswald" was a student in his gym class for a short time, but remembered little about him.

NOTE: Mr. Summers could not have mistakenly remembered Robert Oswald in his class, because Robert graduated from Stripling the year before he began teaching.

As I continued to locate and talk with former Stripling teachers, many suggested that I call "Frank Kudlaty," the former assistant principal at Stripling. I telephoned Mr. Kudlaty, introduced myself as a JFK researcher, and asked if he knew whether or not "Lee Harvey Oswald" had attended Stripling. Without hesitation Frank said, "Yes, he attended Stripling." Somewhat surprised I asked, "How do you know that." Frank replied, "Because I gave his Stripling records to the FBI."

 

You falsely accuse Jim of this because you are careless with your words. You are careless with your words because you are not serious in your inquiry. You're not serious in your inquiry because your mind is closed.

Fine. Now why don't you go away and waste somebody else's time.

 

 

Thanks, Sandy.  What amazes me about the H&L critics is how seldom they post actual EVIDENCE.  Most of the time, they simply attack the overwhelming evidence we present, then scold us for not getting more evidence, and, almost always, attack us personally.  

EDIT: Thanks to Denny Zartman for his straightforward analysis above.

OK boys, back by popular demand, here is the Overwhelming Evidence that LHO attended Stripling School....

Let’s take yet another look at the evidence the H&L critics can’t make go away.

First, of course, is the proof that the two LHOs attended two different schools just one year before the Stripling School attendance.

Because both the FBI and the Warren Commission missed this detail and neglected to cover it up, school records published in the Warren volumes show that both LHOs attended a full fall 1953 school semester in New York City and New Orleans simultaneously.

In the fall semester of 1953, one LHO attended Public School 44 in the Bronx borough of New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days.

Also in the fall semester of 1953, the other LHO was present at Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans for 89 school days.

One year later, one LHO attended Beauregard School in New Orleans while the other was indeed enrolled in Stripling School in Fort Worth.

It was, and remains, common knowledge among local Stripling School district residents and current and former students and teachers that Lee Harvey Oswald attended Stripling School in the 1950s.

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram confirmed this simple fact in an article published in 2017 and updated in 2019.

Quote

Once again, 

This 1959 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicates LHO attended Stripling.

This 1962 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicates LHO attended Stripling.

Published two days after the assassination of JFK, this Fort Worth Star-Telegram article reported: “He attended Stripling Junior High School and Arlington Heights High School before joining the Marines.”

In his 1964 Warren Commission testimony, Robert Oswald said that LHO attended Stripling School.

This May 11, 2002 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicated that “a boy walked to Stripling from a home nearby.  His mother was living in a home behind the school on Thomas Place by 1963, when the world learned the name Lee Harvey Oswald.”

And then, of course, there is the Fort Worth Star-Telegram article from 2017 mentioned above.

Way back on December 27, 1993, John Armstrong wrote to Ricardo Galindo, the then current principal of Stripling School, asking if there were any records for Lee Harvey Oswald's attendance the school.  Mr. Galindo telephoned John back and said that, although there were no records, it was “common knowledge” that LHO had attended the school. [Harvey and Lee, p. 97]

In this 1997 interview, Stripling Student Fran Schubert watched LHO walk from the school to his house at 2220 Thomas Place just across the street from the school.

And, of course, in a 1997 interview, the assistant principal of Stripling School described how he met two FBI agents at Stripling less than 24 hours after the assassination and gave them the records for LHO.  Mr. Stevens can only say that Frank Kudlaty, who went on to become the Superintendent of Schools for Waco, Texas, was mistaken (about his entire story of meeting FBI agents hours after the assassination???) or lying.

On 7/14/2020 at 5:10 PM, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

How many of them verified that it was “common knowledge” LHO attended Stripling?

15 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

(d) Stop with this latest distraction and face up to the problems with the Stripling witnesses, or rather the lack of witnesses.

So... are you two asking me to post the Stripling School evidence yet again?   Have you found a published retraction from the Fort Worth Star-Telegram for the FIVE ARTICLES it printed saying LHO attended Stripling?  

Show me a published retraction, boys!  That would be big news.  But, of course, there is no retraction.  All five articles stand.

Otherwise, YOU STILL HAVE NOTHING TO CONTRADICT THE OVERWHELMING AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE THAT LHO ATTENDED STRIPLING!

4 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

In this case, I'll "make Mr. Parker's arguments here", as Jim demands. Greg makes four points:

(a) The official measurements were approximate. He provides a link (Oh no! A link! Bring the smelling salts!) to http://www.militaryspot.com/marines/height-and-weight-requirements-marine-corps, which explains that "height measurement will be recorded to the nearest inch. If height fraction is less than ½ inch, round down to the nearest inch. If height fraction is ½ inch or more, round up."

(b) Marines had their heights measured so that their overall fitness could be judged. That wouldn't matter for someone leaving the service. If Jim is claiming that official measurements were taken on exit as well as on entry, where's the photograph of our 5' 11" doppelganger standing against a height chart?

Oh, goodie.  Someone is actually stating right here the silly argument made on Mr. Parker’s site.  That way, we can judge the quality of Mr. Parker's argument for ourselves.  Let’s take a look at the EVIDENCE, shall we?

The 9/3/59 USMC medical exam and the 10/12/59 Armed Forces Report of Transfer or Discharge both list LHO’s height as 5’11”. That’s two inches taller than the Oswald measured on the slab in the Dallas Morgue, and none of these measurements are self-reported.

Mr. Bojczuk and Mr. Parker try to tell us about how Marine Corps regs state that "height measurement will be recorded to the nearest inch. If height fraction is less than ½ inch, round down to the nearest inch. If height fraction is ½ inch or more, round up."  This is their excuse du jour for a TWO INCH HEIGHT DISCREPANCY!

By the regulations they cite, according to two USMC docs, LHO’s height was between five feet ten and a half inches and five feet eleven and a half inches.  Yet the H&L critics want us to believe those measurements are the same as LHOs five foot nine inch height measured in the Dallas Morgue.  The difference isn’t profound, but it is real enough and measured by professionals, despite whatever spin the critics try to put on it.  More nonsense from Team Parker®.

Wonderful thing when H&L critics stop hiding behind endless links to Mr. Parker's website and actually make his argument here!
 

On 7/12/2020 at 4:11 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

That’s a two-inch difference, and none of these measurements are self-reported.

On 7/12/2020 at 5:49 PM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Been discussed a million times and alternative explanations provided-see here:

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1380-the-great-oswald-height-debate

On 7/13/2020 at 8:07 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

Do you even bother to read the silly stuff on Greg Parker’s site when you reference them here?  In the page you linked, Mr. Parker wrote, “The simpler and saner explanation is that where the record shows height as 5' 11", it is an estimate by someone else, or an an exaggeration by Oswald.”

Do you really think Marine Corps medical exams and reports had just estimates of height and weight, or that they allowed recruits to “exaggerate” their physical characteristics?  Is Mr. Parker’s silly excuse what you refer to as an “alternative explanation?”  That’s like an “alternative fact,” right?

I can see why you always claim someone else somewhere else has presented these “alternative facts.”  If you stated them here, we would all see how silly they are, and how silly your claims are.

On 7/13/2020 at 8:17 AM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Yes, I have and they are all much more plausible than the 2 Oswald theory.

I see. So both you and Greg Parker believe that the U.S. Marine Corps in its medical reports allowed recruits to make estimates of their own height and weight, and even allowed recruits to “exaggerate” their physical characteristics?  Do you know how stupid that sounds?

No wonder you NEVER, EVER make Mr. Parker's arguments here.  You just post a link with a few dismissive comments and hope no one takes the time to actually read the nonsense you have linked.

13 hours ago, James Norwood said:

As reported in the article, the application form confirms the height of the applicant as 5' 8".  But another fascinating part of the application was the listing of the addresses where Oswald had resided after the age of twelve.  This topic is germane to our ongoing discussion about Stripling Junior High School.  If one of the addresses listed on the application form is 2220 Thomas Place in Fort Worth in 1954-55, then we have more corroborating evidence that Oswald attended Stripling.

Sgt. Chidgey kept the application form in his personal possession, passing it on to this son, John T. Chidgey, an attorney in Houston, who died in 2019.  If the document has remained in the Chidgey family, it is an important historical record.

The newspaper article may be accessed at this site:  https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/article3837441.html

Fascinating!  Any chance the application is online?  Have you tried searching for it?  If not, I'll try to find the time.

My assumption about the 5' 8" height is that the Russian-speaking LHO (Harvey) was just 17 years old at the time and probably grew another inch.  That hardly negates the fact that there was a clear height and weight difference between the two LHO's, as documented from the mid-1950s until 1963.  

15 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

That’s a two-inch difference,

14 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Been discussed a million times and alternative explanations provided-see here:

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1380-the-great-oswald-height-debate

Tracy,

Do you even bother to read the silly stuff on Greg Parker’s site when you reference them here?  In the page you linked, Mr. Parker wrote, “The simpler and saner explanation is that where the record shows height as 5' 11", it is an estimate by someone else, or an an exaggeration by Oswald.”

Do you really think Marine Corps medical exams and reports had just estimates of height and weight, or that they allowed recruits to “exaggerate” their physical characteristics?  Is Mr. Parker’s silly excuse what you refer to as an “alternative explanation?”  That’s like an “alternative fact,” right?

I can see why you always claim someone else somewhere else has presented these “alternative facts.”  If you stated them here, we would all see how silly they are, and how silly your claims are.

3 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

There were clearly three Oswalds! It is inconceivable that any of the following measurements were mistaken! Anyone can see this!

- One of them was 5'11" (Marine records, 1959).

- One of them was 5' 9' (Autopsy in 1963).

- One of them was 5' 8" (Marine records, 1956).

- One of them was 5' 6" or 5'7" (Bolton Ford witness).

That's three, no, hang on, four Oswalds! Anyone can see this!

Mr. Bojczuk’s reductio ad absurdum disregards the obvious fact that the overwhelming majority of references and reports on LHOs height as an adult are centered on 5’ 9” (69 inches)  and 5’ 11” (71 inches) with few in between, which normally would be expected.  Most of the few exceptions were measurements made before adulthood or were clearly estimates. 

On 7/11/2020 at 2:09 PM, David Josephs said:

(The autopsy of Oswald says 5'9" 135... when he leaves the marines 5'10" 150.)

Great to see you posting again here, DJ, and the deep dive on the school records is fascinating.  Hope you’ll find the time to stay for awhile.

One minor note…. The docs I’m looking at indicate that while the Oswald on the slab in the Dallas morgue was indeed listed at 5’ 9” (69 inches) tall, several USMC docs list him at 5’ 11” (71 inches) tall. 

Specifically,  the 9/3/59 USMC medical exam and the 10/12/59 Armed Forces Report of Transfer or Discharge both list his height at 5’11”. That’s a two-inch difference, and none of these measurements are self-reported.

13 hours ago, James Norwood said:

To the Attention of:

Jeremy Bojczuk

Mark Stevens

W. Tracy Parnell

Robert Charles-Dunne

 

You have been asked a question about why the Warren Commission skated around the issue of Oswald's education in the academic year 1954, and no response has been forthcoming.

The reason why this question is important is that Warren Commissioner Allen Dulles insisted on a lengthy biographical overview of Oswald as part of the 888-page final report.  Here is the pertinent information that the Commission included about this portion of Oswald's life:

"Oswald's inability or lack of desire to enter into meaningful relationships with other people continued during this period in New Orleans (1954-56).  It probably contributed greatly to the general dissatisfaction which he exhibited with his environment, a dissatisfaction which seemed to find expression at this particular point in his intense desire to join the Marines and get away from his surroundings and his mother." (384-85)

In this passage, the report locates Oswald's in 1954-56 in New Orleans.  But if it turns out that he attended school in Fort Worth during the academic year 1954-55, there is yet another gaping hole in the Warren Commission's biography of Oswald.  After identifying Oswald's whereabouts in 1954-56, the Warren Report narrative neatly passes on to Oswald enlisting and serving in the Marines, bypassing the precise time frame we are discussing in this thread.

Researcher Walt Brown wrote an excellent book called The Warren Omission, in which he demonstrates how the factual information omitted by the Commission should alert us to a pattern of deception and the flawed nature of the report.  The omission of coverage of Oswald's education in 1954-55 is one of those omissions, which is why Bojczuk, Stevens, Parnell, and Charles-Dunne have been working overtime to obscure the truth about the facts pointing to Oswald having attended Stripling Junior High School in the academic year 1954-55.

12 hours ago, David Josephs said:

One last tidbit for the fearsome foursome....  y'all act as if this kind of thing didn't happen with virtually all of Oswald's "records"
when we see duplicity everywhere we look.

Below are pages from the Tarrant county permanent school records of all the children who attended school in Tarrant...  they're online where with a little patience and some skill you can find most anything you look for...

Where is Lee (who hated to be called Harvey) and who is 7 year old Nancy Lee Oswald with Lee's Bday plus a day and why do we not see a LEE OSWALD thru 6th grade?

Furthermore, Marge was divorced in MAY 1947 and requested her name revert to Oswald.  Wonder where they got EKDAHL for 48-49...???

It sure would be great if people could do just a little research before challenging what they obviously know so little about...

Thanks James

49-50

50-51

 

51-52

 

With all those posts from Mr. Bojczuk making the above scroll into history, I just wanted to make sure readers didn't miss these posts from Dr. Norwood and Mr. Josephs.  Among other anomalies in the records DJ showed, I'm sure than none of the H&L critics has the slightest curiosity about who  Nancy Lee Oswald might have been.  

2 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

I think it's time for yet another massive copy-and-paste of all the 'Harvey and Lee' Stripling stuff. Over to you, Jim!

Thank you for asking, Mr. Bojczuk.  I do think it is important to keep the Stripling evidence in front of people, don’t you agree?  That way, readers can be reminded that you have never debunked any of it, nor has the Fort Worth Star-Telegram ever retracted any of its FIVE ARTICLES indicating LHO attended Stripling School.

Let’s take yet another look at the evidence the H&L critics can’t make go away.

First, of course, is the proof that the two LHOs attended two different schools just one year before the Stripling School attendance.

Because both the FBI and the Warren Commission missed this detail and neglected to cover it up, school records published in the Warren volumes show that both LHOs attended a full fall 1953 school semester in New York City and New Orleans simultaneously.

In the fall semester of 1953, one LHO attended Public School 44 in the Bronx borough of New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days.

Also in the fall semester of 1953, the other LHO was present at Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans for 89 school days.

One year later, one LHO attended Beauregard School in New Orleans while the other was indeed enrolled in Stripling School in Fort Worth.

It was, and remains, common knowledge among local Stripling School district residents and current and former students and teachers that Lee Harvey Oswald attended Stripling School in the 1950s.

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram confirmed this simple fact in an article published in 2017 and updated in 2019.

Once again, 

This 1959 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicates LHO attended Stripling.

This 1962 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicates LHO attended Stripling.

Published two days after the assassination of JFK, this Fort Worth Star-Telegram article reported: “He attended Stripling Junior High School and Arlington Heights High School before joining the Marines.”

In his 1964 Warren Commission testimony, Robert Oswald said that LHO attended Stripling School.

This May 11, 2002 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicated that “a boy walked to Stripling from a home nearby.  His mother was living in a home behind the school on Thomas Place by 1963, when the world learned the name Lee Harvey Oswald.”

And then, of course, there is the Fort Worth Star-Telegram article from 2017 mentioned above.

Way back on December 27, 1993, John Armstrong wrote to Ricardo Galindo, the then current principal of Stripling School, asking if there were any records for Lee Harvey Oswald's attendance the school.  Mr. Galindo telephoned John back and said that, although there were no records, it was “common knowledge” that LHO had attended the school. [Harvey and Lee, p. 97]

In this 1997 interview, Stripling Student Fran Schubert watched LHO walk from the school to his house at 2220 Thomas Place just across the street from the school.

And, of course, in a 1997 interview, the assistant principal of Stripling School described how he met two FBI agents at Stripling less than 24 hours after the assassination and gave them the records for LHO.  Mr. Stevens can only say that Frank Kudlaty, who went on to become the Superintendent of Schools for Waco, Texas, was mistaken (about his entire story of meeting FBI agents hours after the assassination???) or lying.

4 hours ago, James Norwood said:

Charles-Dunn, Stevens, et al. haven't studied the evidence, and it's more fun for them to engage in harassment, as opposed to a civilized discussion.

3 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Nobody's "harassing" anyone as evidenced by the fact that your compliant to the moderators produced no expulsions or even warnings as far as I know. 

On the contrary, Dr. Norwood’s complaint resulted in the complete removal of at least one post written by an H&L critic that contained nothing but personal attacks.  I was surprised at the time because all those attacks prompted me to write THIS POST, which began, “I’m not interested in arguing with anyone who just wants to pick personal fights and make ad hominems.”

I remember thinking at the time that, with the removal of the offensive post, the context of my follow-up post was gone.

1 hour ago, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

When you learn to answer direct questions, such as I've posed - as have at least three others - I'll be here.  Until you're prepared to meet that obligation, this thread has been and will remain a disaster for H&L.  Your avoidance of questions you cannot answer makes you look small.  And H&L along with it. 

RCD AGAIN FORGETS that in recent days I have answered his questions directly in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, among others.  But scolding me for not answering questions appears to be a talking point among the anti-H&L people, who wish to talk about ANYTHING other than the EVIDENCE.  The real disaster in this thread is the total inability of the H&L critics to make any of the Stripling evidence go away.  And so they create distractions, like the false claim that I haven't answered their questions.

I have answered RCD's questions, most recently, in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, among others.  RCD has not responded to or even acknowledged any of this.  He just keeps repeating and repeating the false claim.

The H&L critics claim that the Stripling assistant principal Frank Kudlaty, who said he gave LHO’s Stripling records to the FBI hours after the assassination, was either lying or profoundly mistaken.

The critics claim that Robert Oswald was just guessing that LHO attended Stripling when he told the Fort Worth Star Telegram in 1959 and again in 1962 that LHO attended Stripling school a year or so before entering the Marine Corps.  The H&L critics ignore the fact that in 1956 Robert, Marguerite, and LHO lived at 4936 Collinwood in Fort Worth, just ten blocks or so from Stripling School, when Robert and LHO undoubtedly compared notes about their Stripling attendance experiences (Robert in 1948, LHO in 1954).  Robert certainly wasn’t guessing about LHO’s Stripling attendance.

The H&L critics claim that the Star-Telegram article published two days after the assassination was wrong when it stated LHO attended Stripling.  Ditto for the Star Telegram stories of 2002 and 2017, both of which said LHO attended Stripling.

They claim Stripling student Fran Schubert was wrong in her clear memory that she watched LHO walk the short distance home from the school to 2220 Thomas Place, just across the street from Stripling, where Marguerite lived on several occasions, including when JFK was killed.

They claim to not understand what Stripling principal Ricardo Galindo meant when he told John Armstrong that it was “common knowledge” that LHO attended Stripling.

They ignore Marguerite’s statement in the 11/15/59 Star-Telegram that LHO “quit school at 14 …. he quit in the eighth grade ….. but was so set on getting an education, he quit and returned three times,” and apparently want people to think this matches the Official Record without Stripling School.

They ignore the evidence, claiming it is just a “distraction,” that just one year before Stripling the two LHOs attended school simultaneously in New York City and New Orleans.

The H&L critics cannot even CONSIDER ACCEPTING the clear evidence that LHO attended Stripling School because they know that, if they do, they have to accept there were two different young men sharing the identity of LHO, just as John Armstrong has shown again and again.  That is why the H&L critics are working so hard in their unsuccessful attempts to debunk the Stripling evidence.  If they accept it, they lose!

And they have already lost.

Hi, David,

Good to see you posting again!

I’ve waited more than 24 hours to respond to your note hoping that Mark Stevens, or Jeremy Bojczuk, or RCD, or any other H&L critic would DARE to respond, but every one of them appears to have run away.  My bet is that ALL of them simply HATE looking at Real Evidence®, speaking of which....

Thanks for setting the record straight, Sandy.

John Armstrong’s new write-up on the Marine Corps and the “defection” is about finished and should go public tomorrow.  Anyone interested can see the pre-publication version here:

    https://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines-NEW.html

As soon as he finishes his big anniversary program this week, Len Osanic will be interviewing John on this new material for what will probably be two episodes of Black Ops Radio.
 

Oh, brother!  The H&L critics will try ANYTHING to  hide from the overwhelming evidence that LHO attended Stripling School.

Frank Kudlaty made it abundantly clear in the opening minute of his interview with John A. that he looked at LHO’s records for Stripling Junior High School and noted that his attendance at Stripling School (not a previous elementary school) was less than a full year.

click here for 1997 interview with Frank Kudlaty

Let’s take yet another look at the evidence the H&L critics can’t make go away.

First, of course, is the proof that the two LHOs attended two different schools just one year before the Stripling School attendance.

Because both the FBI and the Warren Commission missed this detail and neglected to cover it up, school records published in the Warren volumes show that both LHOs attended a full fall 1953 school semester in New York City and New Orleans simultaneously.

In the fall semester of 1953, one LHO attended Public School 44 in the Bronx borough of New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days.

Also in the fall semester of 1953, the other LHO was present at Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans for 89 school days.

One year later, one LHO attended Beauregard School in New Orleans while the other was indeed enrolled in Stripling School in Fort Worth.

It was, and remains, common knowledge among local Stripling School district residents and current and former students and teachers that Lee Harvey Oswald attended Stripling School in the 1950s.

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram confirmed this simple fact in an article published in 2017 and updated in 2019.

Once again, 

This 1959 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicates LHO attended Stripling.

This 1962 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicates LHO attended Stripling.

Published two days after the assassination of JFK, this Fort Worth Star-Telegram article reported: “He attended Stripling Junior High School and Arlington Heights High School before joining the Marines.”

In his 1964 Warren Commission testimony, Robert Oswald said that LHO attended Stripling School.

This May 11, 2002 Fort Worth Star-Telegram article indicated that “a boy walked to Stripling from a home nearby.  His mother was living in a home behind the school on Thomas Place by 1963, when the world learned the name Lee Harvey Oswald.”

And then, of course, there is the Fort Worth Star-Telegram article from 2017 mentioned above.

Way back on December 27, 1993, John Armstrong wrote to Ricardo Galindo, the then current principal of Stripling School, asking if there were any records for Lee Harvey Oswald's attendance the school.  Mr. Galindo telephoned John back and said that, although there were no records, it was “common knowledge” that LHO had attended the school. [Harvey and Lee, p. 97]

In this 1997 interview, Stripling Student Fran Schubert watched LHO walk from the school to his house at 2220 Thomas Place just across the street from the school.

And, of course, in a 1997 interview, the assistant principal of Stripling School described how he met two FBI agents at Stripling less than 24 hours after the assassination and gave them the records for LHO.  Mr. Stevens can only say that Frank Kudlaty, who went on to become the Superintendent of Schools for Waco, Texas, was mistaken (about his entire story of meeting FBI agents hours after the assassination???) or lying.

John Armstrong has been working on a reorganization of the Marines page on our website.  There is some new information there and some new graphics, but it is mostly a reorganization hoping to make it easier to understand how the two LHOs were so often in two different places simultaneously, according to Marine Corps records.

I haven’t made the new page public yet because it isn’t quite finished, but anyone interested in a look at this almost completed update can do so by clicking on this link:

https://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines-NEW.html

4 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

 

Oswald's school photographs.  Over to you guys to conclude 'what' school & 'what' year.

 

 

Thanks, Pete.  These all appear to be early photos of American-born LEE Harvey Oswald in elementary school.

Top photo: Lee Oswald in 6th Grade at Ridglea West Elementary.

On September 5, 11-year-old Lee Oswald entered Mrs. Bratton's 6th grade class
at Ridglea West Elementary. In September, Marguerite borrowed $56.45 against the
$1000 life insurance policy on Lee Oswald, which she had purchased in 1945, but never
repaid the loan. 127 [Harvey and Lee, p. 40)

Middle photo: Lee Oswald in 4th Grade at Ridglea West.

On September 7, 1949 Lee Oswald entered Emma Livingston's 4th grade class
at Ridglea West Elementary (Fort Worth school #48). 52-21122 She remembered, "Lee
Oswald entered this school with a group of all new students as this was the first year this
elementary school was in operation. He was a quiet and rather shy type of student, did
not know any of the other students, and it took him a long time to get acquainted with
the other students."109 Nancy Kuklies, who sat next to Oswald class, said that she liked
him, "Because he was a husky boy and because it seemed like he had more ideas about
things than I did." She remembered later, when Oswald was 12, that he spent a lot of
time at the home of a 16-year-old boy, whose sister Nancy often visited. [H&L, p. 36]

Bottom photo: This is probably Lee Oswald at Lily B. Clayton Elementary School in Fort Worth. 

In early 1947 Marguerite and Ekdahl ended their 8-month separation and re­
united. Lee was withdrawn from the Covington Grammar School on January 23, 1947
and returned with his mother to Fort Worth. Marguerite enrolled Lee at Lily B. Clayton
Elementary School (Fort Worth-school #19), located at 2000 Park Place Avenue, and Lee
began attending Lois Lowimore's first grade class on January 27.64 52-1011  [H&L, p. 23]

12 hours ago, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

“Teachers and classmates remember him as attending Stripling, though there is no official record.” 

Now this article contains a significant nugget of evidence.  You see, for some reason, Jim Hargrove only cited one of the times the article mentions Stripling.  But the author, Bud Kennedy related the following in the same article:

In 1966, when I was 11, my wallet was stolen at what is now Stripling Middle School in the Arlington Heights neighborhood.

A woman who lived nearby called our home saying it had been tossed in her yard. I bicycled to her home on Byers Avenue and thanked her.

“Your name is Kennedy?” she asked, peering sternly through the screen door, and I nodded.

She did not smile as she said, “Well — I’m Mrs. Oswald.”

We would not have known, due to Jim H.’s decision for excision, the author either attended school at Stripling or was at least robbed there, when he’d be the right age to attend.  At no time does he report that it was “common knowledge” Oswald attended there.  At no time does he report the names of anyone who knew Oswald at Stripling, which would have been relatively easy for him to determine.  He makes the un-sourced claim “teachers and classmates remember him as attending Stripling, but there is no official record.”  Either way, his claim is half true: “there is no official record.

Of course, RCD fails to point out that I have provided links to the Mr. Kennedy's article probably a dozen times in this thread, which is probably why RCD bothered to read the article in the first place.  His breathless RED QUOTATION above is an interesting anecdote, but it has nothing to do with the fact that the story also indicated that “teachers and classmates remember him as attending Stripling, but there is no official record.”

It is, in fact the fifth article in which the Fort Worth Star-Telegram indicated LHO attended Stripling School.  Perhaps RCD can point us to a retraction.... but no, of course he can't, because a retraction hasn't been made.

12 hours ago, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

”Since Marguerite never mentioned Lee attending Stripling, this oft-repeated canard has no relevance to the issue at hand.

 

Which makes it supremely odd that nobody corrected him, or told him to keep his yap shut because the knowledge of Stripling could tip off somebody that something fantastical was afoot.  But despite this being a top-secret, hush-hush need-to-know compartmentalized operation, Robert kept mentioning Stripling, and nobody drew his attention to how this jeopardized an off-the-shelf “eyes only” operation.  Pick a lane.  You can’t have them both.Well, they were only a quarter century old when the H&L squad should have been looking for them.  But better late than never.  And then there is your penchant for only quoting from 2017 what suits your purpose.  Tsk tsk.

In a November 15, 1959 Fort Worth Star-Telegram story entitled “My Values Different, Defector Told Mother,” Marguerite was quoted as saying: "He quit school at 14 …. he quit in the eighth grade ….. but was so set on getting an education, he quit and returned three times."  That, of course, hardly matches the WC record of Classic Oswald®  But it makes perfect sense if we understand that the Russian-speaking Oswald attended, and later quit, Stripling JHS, Warren Easton High School, and Arlington Heights High School.

The newspaper articles quoting Robert saying that LHO attended Stripling a year or so before joining the Marine Corps obviously predate the assassination of JFK.  During this period, the cover story for U.S. Intel's Oswald project did not need to stand up under a microscope; it only had to be good enough to fool a Soviet investigation into LHO's background, should one be undertaken after the false defection.  

After the assassination, of course, everything was under a microscope, and Robert, during his WC testimony, had to muddy the Stripling waters by giving false dates.  Otherwise, the WC would have run into the same disaster the H&L critics are encountering here and now--overwhelming evidence that one LHO attended Stripling School in Fort Worth while the other was at Beauregard School New Orleans.

12 hours ago, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

Or I could simply quote - as I did above - something you wished to keep out of this thread.  And since you volunteered this information, you presumably pumped Kennedy for any additional information he may have to help buttress the H&L hypothesis.  I mean, why not?  You already contact with him.  Did he give you any additional names or leads?  Or did you not ask?

Again with the bait and switch.  You planted a flag here, and have continued to defend it.  What you haven’t done is answer a single question put to you by at least four people - the future ex-members of Norwood’s dreams - nor even made an attempt.

You demand we demonstrate good faith, when you yourself have offered none.

Try answering a damn question.

RCD apparently FORGETS that in just the last couple of days, I answered his questions in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, and in THIS POST, among others.  But scolding me for not answering questions appears to be a talking point among the anti-H&L people, who wish to talk about ANYTHING other than the EVIDENCE.

Above all else, RCD clearly wants to avoid the evidence that  two LHOs attended two different schools just one year before the Stripling School attendance.  He wants to pretend this is irrelevant!  He tries to claim it is a "bait and switch."

Because both the FBI and the Warren Commission missed this detail and neglected to cover it up, school records published in the Warren volumes show that both LHOs attended a full fall 1953 school semester in New York City and New Orleans simultaneously.

In the fall semester of 1953, one LHO attended Public School 44 in the Bronx borough of New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days.

Also in the fall semester of 1953, the other LHO was present at Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans for 89 school days.

1 hour ago, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

Jim may insist that his version is correct - five articles written at five different times - but the content in those five articles, written at different times, includes a mistake that was repeated throughout.  Was Robert asked afresh by the FWST five times?  You don’t know, because you haven’t sought to confirm if that is correct.  You are content to rely upon that lack of knowledge, as though it were probative.

Nonsense.  

The earliest Fort Worth Star-Telegram (FWST) articles indicate Robert said that LHO attended Stripling a year or so before joining the Marines (marking the 1954-55 school year most likely), which is what actually happened.  

Two days after the assassination, a third FWST article merely stated LHO attended Stripling but didn’t say when.  During Robert Oswald’s 1964 WC testimony, he swore that LHO DID attend Stripling, but gave incorrect dates.  

The 2002 FWST article said, “Yet a 1956 student would become the school’s best-known.  For a few weeks—his mother moved several times across Fort Worth—a boy walked to Stripling from a home nearby.  His mother was living in a home behind the school on Thomas Place by 1963, when the world learned the name Lee Harvey Oswald.”

The 2017 FWST article merely says, without giving a date, “Teachers and classmates remember him as attending Stripling, though there is no official record.”  

These articles clearly have different sources because they provide different details and, in at least one case, disagree on the year LHO attended Stripling, though all clearly agree that he did attend that school.

Despite the five newspaper articles, and Robert Oswald’s sworn testimony confirming LHO’s Stripling attendance, and Marguerite’s newspaper interview indirectly confirming it, and filmed interviews with a 1954 Stripling classmate and the Stripling assistant principal in 1963 who gave LHO’s records to the FBI, the H&L critics simply cannot accept any of this.and

Why?  Because they know if LHO attended Stripling even briefly in 1954, there were two LHOs, and, above all else, they cannot accept this.  That leads directly to the U.S. Intel project the Russian-speaking LHO was trained for.

Instead, the H&L critics scold the H&L proponents for not contacting the FWST newspaper to get more information on articles that are more than half a century old.  (Let me add, though, that in the case of the 2017 article, I DID correspond with Bud Kennedy, author of the piece.  Perhaps one of the H&L critics might make the supreme effort of contacting him as I did—or do they simply prefer to whine and scold us and do nothing else themselves?  Silly question!)

In the meantime, will ANY H&L critic respond to the really burning question here?  I’ve asked this many times before and never received an answer.  If the Stripling School attendance is so hard to believe, isn’t it remarkable that, just one year earlier, in the fall semester of 1953:

One LHO attended Public School 44 in the Bronx borough of New York City, where he was present for 62 full days and 5 half days, was absent 3 full days and 8 half days, for a total accounting of 78 days.

and

Also in the fall semester of 1953, the other LHO was present at Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans for 89 school days?

These documents are published in the Warren Volumes and I’ve put them up here many times.  Besides an occasional link and a false claim that it has been debunked elsewhere, no H&L critic seems to have the courage to discuss these documents right here, on the JFK Assassination Debate Forum.

The 1953/54 school records published by the WC are just a distraction, they want readers to believe.  It’s just a change of subject!  It’s just... ju... icky!

That is irrelevant?  That is a distraction?
 

1 hour ago, James Norwood said:

Jeremy,

Bobby Pitts' recollection is important because it corroborates Fran Schubert's recall of the academic year 1954-55 as the time when Lee Harvey Oswald was attending Stripling Junior High School.  The fact that we have six eyewitnesses recalling a nondescript kid living across from the school at the time is compelling evidence.  Pitts was not a student at Stripling at the time, but his testimony identifies Oswald as residing in a duplex across the street from the school, and the specific time frame was the 1954-55 school year.  If a young boy is residing in that close proximity to the school, it is a fair assumption that he is enrolled at that institution.

The flaw in the approach that you and your cohorts are taking to this topic is that you are attempting to discredit all of the eyewitnesses individually because he or she was not physically present with Oswald in a classroom at the school.  In the JFK case, the evidence is so tainted that we have to rely on eyewitness testimony, and we have to rely on circumstantial evidence, in order to draw reasonable conclusions.  This is true for any facet of the case, including ballistics, medical evidence at Parkland, medical evidence at Bethesda, and photographic and film evidence. 

We are all attempting to assemble a jigsaw puzzle with missing pieces.  What is most important is the totality of the evidence.  When the Stripling matter is examined as a whole, the two most important eyewitnesses are Frank Kudlaty and Fran Schubert.  The other eyewitnesses corroborate portions of the recall of a school administrator who surrendered the school records to the FBI and a student who recalls Oswald's physical presence at the school in 1954-55.

It is remarkable that we have as many as six eyewitnesses who have some recollection of Oswald attending the school and residing in the vicinity in 1954-55.  Because you and the others have failed to discredit the eyewitnesses or to demonstrate why their testimony is inaccurate, I stand by what I have written about Stripling.

Thanks, Dr. Norwood.

I'd add, though, that Robert Oswald's pre-assassination statements to the Fort Worth Star Telegram that LHO attended Stripling School a year or so before joining the Marines is also particularly compelling evidence.  His sworn testimony to the WC, altering the dates to make the attendance at the wrong time, was an obvious ploy to repair the damage done by the earlier reporting. Nevertheless, Robert swore under oath that LHO attended Stripling.  The evidence all fits together nicely, including the published records indicating that the two LHO's simultaneously attended a full semester of school just a year earlier in both New York City and New Orleans, a remarkable feat for one kid!

9 hours ago, John Butler said:

Jim,

I'm not sure it's a good idea to continue using this newspaper article.  I think you should find the original copy or get it from that newspaper to check what I am going to say.  This article in all probability was retyped sometime in the mid to late 1990's with MS Word.  The software in MS Word about the time of Windows 95 or 97 had a printing error that randomly typed smaller type script such as seen in the newspaper article twice. 

Typesetters in newspapers would not have made this kind of error twice.

I have run across this before at Mary Ferrell with at least one document concerning Vicky Adams.  Most people will not see this and even if they do they won't understand it's significance.  

John,

I downloaded this image myself from the Fort Worth Star-Telegram online archives, which are run under the auspices of a newspapers.com plus account. It is reasonably expensive but, if you give them a credit card number, you can get a free week after which you can cancel without charge.

Why don’t you try that yourself to verify that this story is indeed directly from the FWST?

You can start HERE.
 

Bobby Pitts

In my often presented list of evidence for LHO's attendance at Stripling, I don't even mention Bobby Pitts, not because I don't believe John A's notes and statements about hun, but because John didn't record an interview with him and we don't, therefore, have physical evidence.  It is quite reasonable for Dr. Norwood to bring him up, but why do the H&L critics tend to pick on subjects for which physical evidence is so limited?  I have shown, again and again, substantial physical evidence, including five Fort Worth Star Telegram newspaper stories, that the H&L critics have little to say about.

Why is that?

1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

I went back and checked Robert's book. Funny thing, there is no mention of Stripling. He has LHO going from Ridgelea to NYC. It looks to me like Robert went over the records and realized that he had made a mistake during his WC testimony and therefore did not write about Stripling. I can't think of any other explanation when he is writing a book that will be his final word.

Actually, Tracy raises a decent point here.  But the answer is simple.

As John A. described on p. 97 of Harvey and Lee, following the assassination it was clear that Robert’s public statements in 1959 and 1962 about LHO attending Stripling School were highly problematic.  To attempt to make the issue go away, Robert told the WC that his brother attended Stripling before moving to NYC, which was not possible.

Had Robert admitted the truth about Stripling in his book, he would have admitted his clear knowledge of the two Oswalds.  I always like to stress that the original Oswald Project was undertaken for entirely patriotic reasons. 

To Mark Stevens:

Please explain THIS EVIDENCE published two days after JFK was killed in the Fort Worth Star Telegram:

And THIS EVIDENCE from a year prior to the assassination:

20 hours ago, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

I’m asking if any attempt was made to contact Robert Oswald while he was still alive, to verify if this was his perfectly natural mistake, or determine his absolute certainty.  But apparently we’re supposed to take this as read because Robert made the same mistake more than once, at least twice.  Well, then it must be true!

I talked with John A. on the phone today and asked him about Robert Oswald.  John said he tried numerous times to talk with Robert but was never successful, and he reminded me of this funny story…..

At one point, John decided he’d try to get through to Robert by getting an introduction from Marina’s daughter Rachel.  Marina and John had met three or four times, and John got Rachel’s phone number, called her, and talked with her for hours.

John finally got around to asking about Robert and Rachel said that she had never in her life spoken to Robert or received any kind of communication from him, nor had her sister June.  Let me say that again….

Neither Rachel nor June had ever communicated in any way with the man who was supposed to be their “Uncle Robert.”   Makes perfect sense!

Perhaps RCD or Mark Stevens would like to do some ACTUAL RESEARCH and call Rachel or June and ask either or both about “Uncle Robert.”