Ron Ecker
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My recollection is that there was "wall to wall" coverage until the funeral, but of course that could be a really false memory. -
Since I imagine most folks here are too young to ask about TV coverage that weekend, it would be great if some of you with parents about my age (I'm 76) would ask your parents what they saw on TV that night. I would love to hear about it.
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Then I'm pretty sure I saw a replay. But again, it is inconsistent with what I remember seeing quite vividly, in particular the coffin just left out there, till finally, as I remember it, a military officer got in behind the wheel and drove it away.
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David, You're channeling Gary Mack almost word for word. I'm pretty sure I didn't stay up till 4:30 that night. Moreover, what stands out most in my memory is how long the coffin sat out there so long, certainly longer than five minutes, seemingly unattended after Mrs. Kennedy and her party had seemed to abandon it. I remember a comment about it from a TV reporter off camera. I can see how a tape of such a thing would be destroyed, to avoid people asking what the hell was going on behind the scenes. And I don't think the ambulance just sat outside the White House that way. It would help if anyone at all could remember what they watched on TV the night of the 22nd around 7 pm. Am I the only person who remembers watching the tube that night? I thought the whole nation was watching.
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I would like to make this summation on the question at hand. All evidence seems to point to my memory of watching live coverage of the arrival at Bethesda as being a false memory. But I will probably go to my grave believing that the memory is true. My epitaph will say, "I still think I saw it." And my theory, in believing that the memory is true, is that any tape of live TV coverage of the naval ambulance's arrival at Bethesda was destroyed at some time soon after. So that no researchers such as David or Mack would ever find any visual record of that coverage, as if no such coverage ever happened. And why would it be destroyed? Simply because of all the deception that went on that night, regarding ambulances or hearses and coffins, of which David is so well aware. Any visual record of the ambulance for some reason just sitting there with the coffin for 12 minutes just wasn't a good idea. Now I would like to ask a question of all of those here who may be old enough like me to have lived through those terrible days. You may recall that there was continuous TV coverage of assassination news that weekend without commercial interruption. So if you remember watching TV on the night of the assassination, say around 7 o'clock EST, do you remember what coverage you watched?
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David, Thanks for your posts. I devoted a thread some time ago to what I remember seeing, and I allowed at the time that it could very well be a false memory. In fact the title of the thread is "False Memory and the Hearse at Bethesda." I have the memory nonetheless. And according to my possibly false memory, it did seem like the hearse sat there for more than five minutes. "12 minutes" rings a bell, I may have read it somewhere in your book, but I went along with the "five minutes" earlier in this thread because two sources cited agree it was about five minutes. I have one question about Griggs and the other sources you cite on "the ambulance" in front of Bethesda. Did they ever identify it as a gray Pontiac, being of course the one that left Andrews, or is it always just "the ambulance"?
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Re the hearses, the one person I have found on Earth (not a JFK researcher as such) who remembers seeing the same live TV coverage of the arrival at Bethesda, stated by email that the hearse that arrived with Mrs. Kennedy and the Dallas casket and sat in front of the hospital for five minutes was without a doubt a black Cadillac. Not the gray Pontiac that left with the casket from Andrews. I can't say after all this time if the hearse I saw was black or gray, and I wouldn't know a Cadillac from a Pontiac. But this guy is sure it was a black Cadillac.
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Well, it's interesting that some hearses have or had tailfins. Which is pretty snazzy, I guess, like the only way to go.
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The black vehicle seen passing was a long limousine, not a hearse. A hearse would have a rear door. This vehicle had a trunk and tailfins.
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I remember seeing Helms on an afternoon talk show, I think it was Phil Donahue. As I recall they were discussing the Clinton sex scandals of the day. Anyway, Helms made the remark that JFK was "a womanizer."
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Then the French and Italy had CIA help, or the CIA had French and Italian help. Just like the CIA and the Mafia were in cahoots against Castro. Either way the CIA was complicit and acts like it.
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Yeah, as I recall the poor guy sued some tabloid for libel but then couldn't prove in court where he was on 11/22/63.
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Karl, Thanks. I remember seeing something about it well before 2017, but I don't remember where or if it was verified. And someone posting on FB that it's an Army versus Navy towel doesn't make it so. I wonder if some researcher might be willing to join the Army to find out what kind of towels and logos they have. But of course they may have changed since 1963.
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I remember reading something about this, but what is the source?
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Well, that's different from what you quoted. He says the ambulance sat there about five minutes. That agrees with Manchester who wrote "five full minutes." Manchester mentions no rush of photographers (why would they wait five minutes, then rush the ambulance?), and I don't remember seeing any. There was a crowd of people there (including, I still believe, a TV crew, and of course there may have been photographers) off screen and that was it.
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I don't think that's an accurate account. The ambulance sat in front of the hospital for several minutes, and there was no rush of photographers. This is according to Manchester's account in Death of a President, as well as my own memory of watching the arrival, and the ambulance sitting there, on live TV. I firmly believe that I saw what I saw, despite the late Gary Mack insisting to me that there was no live TV coverage, despite the fact that there is apparently no surviving tape of that coverage, and despite the fact that I have not found anyone else in the JFK research community who remembers seeing it. I remember watching it as clearly as I remember watching on TV as Ruby shot Oswald .
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I guess it's just part of the craft of intelligence.
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What could be a possible CIA motive to look so guilty for all these years if it's not? If it just wants to look guilty but isn't, it's to protect whom? Or what's the point?
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I don't understand what you're saying. The rear starboard wing has no connection to the blackened area along the fuselage. Do you mean the blackened area is shadow cast by the wing? Doesn't look like that to me.
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Didn't Nagell deliberately get himself arrested for bank robbery so that he would be in jail on or around November 22? If true, I would say that foreknowledge is the only explanation. But who did he think was going to do it? He wasn't a lone nutter, was he?
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And I wonder for what possible reason someone blacked out part of the starboard side. What could have been there to hide? All I can think of is a sign that said "Remove body here."
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Oswald, Lovelady, Prayer Man, or who?
Ron Ecker replied to Ron Ecker's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
The photo is remarkable in that it contains at least three lookalikes. Harrelson (tall tramp), Hunt (old tramp), and Oswald in the doorway. I might as well add Lansdale (the man on the left whose face is blocked from view). The nice-looking fellow with a name tag following the tramps looks like he ought to be somebody too. Did the conspirators actually wear name tags that day? They might as well have. Would it matter? -
This has been bugging me so I might as well ask. Does anyone know who the Oswald lookalike might be in the doorway in this pic?
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Freemasons involved in the assassination of JFK
Ron Ecker replied to Paz Marverde's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
And the Yale secret society Skull and Bones (its members including Angleton, Prescott and H.W. George and George W. Bush), which may or may not have some connection to Freemasonry. (A symbol of Freemasonry is a skull and crossbones.) -
Focus your research on Zapruder, he is the key
Ron Ecker replied to Mike Rago's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Why would assassins shoot from in the pergola? Wouldn't that be one of the worst positions they could choose? They would be shooting from the side at a moving target, instead of at a target at least moving toward them (as in a position behind the fence, in the storm drain at the end, or in the south knoll area). And in fact any assassins who shot from in the pergola missed the target, didn't they?
