Joe Bauer

North Beckley housekeeper Earline Roberts was described very derogatorily by her boss Mrs. Johnson as not a great worker ( she was old and tired ) and a "teller of tall tales."

Johnson just ripped Earlene Roberts.

So, here's the "tall tale" Earlene Robert's made up about her 1:pm November 22nd, encounter with a returning Lee Oswald. Full of embellishments like a gossiper would add?

To the Warren Commission:

BALL. And Friday was the day the President was shot? Had you seen him at any time that Friday before the officers came up and knocked on your door?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No.
Mr. BALL. Hadn't he been home?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Oh, let's see--that was the day.
Mr. BALL. That was on a Friday---
Mrs. ROBERTS. Wait a minute, let me think of it.
Mr. BALL. That's on a Friday.
Mrs. ROBERTS. I had better back up a minute---he came home that Friday in an unusual hurry.
Mr. BALL. And about what time was this?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, it was after President Kennedy had been shot and I had a friend that said, "Roberts, President Kennedy has been shot," and I said, "Oh, no." She said, "Turn on your television," and I said "What are you trying to do, pull my leg?" And she said, "Well, go turn it on." I went and turned it on and I was trying to clear it up---I could hear them talking but I couldn't get the picture and he come in and I just looked up and I said, "Oh, you are in a hurry." He never said a thing, not nothing. He went on to his room and stayed about 3 or 4 minutes.
Mr. BALL. As he came in, did you say anything else except, "You are in a hurry"?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No.
Mr. BALL. Did you say anything about the President being shot?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No.
Mr. BALL. You were working with the television?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I was trying to clear it up to see what was happening and try to find out about President Kennedy.
Mr. BALL. Why did you say to this man as he came in, "You are in a hurry,"why did you say that?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, he just never has come in and he was walking unusually fast and he just hadn't been that way and I just looked up and I said, "Oh, you are in a hurry."
Mr. BALL. You mean he was walking faster than he usually was?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. When he came in the door, what did he do?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He just walked in---he didn't look around at me---he didn't say nothing and went on to his room.
Mr. BALL. Did he run?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He wasn't running, but he was walking pretty fast---he was all but running.
Mr. BALL. Then, what happened after that?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He went to his room and he was in his shirt sleeves but I couldn't tell you whether it was a long-sleeved shirt or what color it was or nothing, and he got a jacket and put it on---it was kind of a zipper jacket.
Mr. BALL. Had you ever seen him wear that jacket before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I can't say I did---if I did, I don't remember it.
Mr. BALL. When he came in he was in a shirt?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He was in his shirt sleeves.
Mr. BALL. What color was his shirt? Do you know?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I don't remember. I didn't pay that much attention for I was interested in the television trying to get it fixed.
Mr. BALL. Had you ever seen that shirt before or seen him wear it---the shirt, or do you know?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I don't remember---I don't know.
Mr. BALL. You say he put on a separate jacket?
Mrs. ROBERTS. A jacket.
Mr. BALL. I'll show you this jacket which is Commission Exhibit 162---have you ever seen this jacket before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe I have, but I don't remember it. It seems like the one he put on was darker than that. Now, I won't be sure, because I really don't know, but is that a zipper jacket?
Mr. BALL. Yes---it has a zipper down the front.
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe it was.
Mr. BALL. It was a zippered jacket, was it?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; it was a zipper jacket. How come me to remember it, he was zipping it up as he went out the door.
Mr. BALL. He was zipping it up as he went out the door?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Then, when you saw him, did you see any part of his belt?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No.
Mr. BALL. There is some suspicion that when he left there he might have had a pistol or a revolver in his belt; did you see anything like that?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No; I sure didn't.
Mr. BALL. Now, I show you Commission Exhibit No. 150--it is a shirt-have you seen that before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe I have. Now, that looks kind of like the dark shirt that he had on.
Mr. BALL. Now, when Oswald came in, he was in a shirt--does this shirt look anything like the shirt he had on?
Mrs. ROBERTS. It was a dark shirt he had on-I think it was a dark one, but whether it was long sleeve or short sleeve or what--I don't know.
Mr. BALL. Does the color of this shirt which I show you here, Commission Exhibit No. 150, look anything like the shirt he had on?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I'm sorry, I just don't know.
Mr. BALL.. You are not able to testify as to that--to tell us that?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No.
Mr. BALL. Can you tell me what time it was approximately that Oswald came in?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after, because it was after President Kennedy had been shot-what time I wouldn't want to say because
Mr. BALL.. How long did he stay in the room ?
Mr. ROBERTS. Oh, maybe not over 3 or 4 minutes-just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on and he went out zipping it.
Mr. BALL. You recall he went out zipping it-was he running or walking?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He was walking fast-he was making tracks pretty fast.
Mr. BALL. Did he say anything to you as he went out ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you say anything to him ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Probably wouldn't have gotten no answer.
Mr. BALL. What is the only thing you said to him from the time he came in the house until he left?
Mrs. ROBERTS. "You sure are in a hurry."
Mr. BELIN. Is that all?
Mrs. ROBERTS. That was all.
Mr. BALL. That's all you said to him ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. That's all I said to him.
Mr. BALL. Did he say anything to you ?
Mrs. ROBERTS. No.
Mr. BALL. Nothing.
Mrs. ROBERTS. He didn't say nothing-he wouldn't say nothing-period.

He walked in kind of fast like, didn't look at her or say anything. Roberts says to Oswald "you sure are in a hurry."

Oswald says nothing back.

He goes in his room.

3 or 4 minutes later he leaves his room. As he does, he doesn't look at or say anything to Roberts and walks quickly out the door.

Yup, a tall tale there. Full of embellishment. And Roberts said she couldn't remember almost every detail Ball was quizzing her about regards Oswald. She could have added all kind of gossipy details if she wanted to. But she was instead very sparse, totally non-embellishing in her answers as she honestly answered them.

This is one reason I believe her police car parking and quick "Tit Tit" honking story just in front of her residence yard while Oswald was in his room.

This thought just occurred to me:

Earlene Roberts testified that Dallas police officers occasionally came to her residence. She would even talk to them as they sat in their patrol car. She even thought she knew the car number of one of the cars.

They'd ask typical "anything unusual" questions. Made sense as she would see the comings and goings of the many residents of her rooming house. Typically transient people that stay in pretty low income places like hers.

Now, the afternoon of 11,22,1963, when a marked Dallas Police car came up to and stopped in front of her residence yard and honked twice ( tit tit ), you might think that because of the Earth shaking, city stopping news of JFK's shooting Ms. Roberts might have been a little more motivated to go out and meet these two officers in their stopped car.

To ask them about this JFK shooting event.

If anybody would know more about the shooting it would be the police.

However, if she had done so, it would have been several minutes of talking with them They would have had to stay parked there a least longer than a minute or two.

And they pulled up before Oswald had left his room.

Could you imagine Lee Oswald bustling out his room, and then out the front door of the main house and seeing this police car sitting right in front of him with Ms. Robert's talking to the officers through their open door window?

Obviously, he would have turned and made a beeline back in.

Easily could have happened. and it would have totally changed the time line for Oswald's alleged walk where he was confronted by Officer Tippit.

Just a "what if" contemplation.

1 hour ago, Robert Burrows said:

After listening to JFK's effusive praise for Thomas, on the night before JFK's murder,

(https://www.jfklibrary.org/asset-viewer/archives/JFKWHA/1963/JFKWHA-244-001/JFKWHA-244-001)

I find Thomas's smirking demeanor even more inappropriate and disgusting. 

 

Robert.

These famous still photos of Jackie standing next to LBJ in her husband's blood covered dress while LBJ was being sworn in on Air Force 1 will be known and shown to millions for perhaps even centuries from now.

They are perhaps the most powerful photos of that tragic day in their depiction of the deepest emotional trauma shock, horror, grief and pain on Jackie Kennedy's face almost beyond psychology and even common language term description words.

The photos of Jackie here are truly, epically haunting.

More than any others I can recall, they capture the brutal and bloody tragedy in it's deepest and fullest soul wrenching pain and personal loss essence.

And what will also forever add to the emotional wrenching power of the photos is the mind boggling surreal juxtaposition of the main focus characters in them - Jackie, LBJ, Lady Bird  ( and in the most truly perverse one the smirking smile Albert Thomas "ata boy Lyndon" one ) and knowing that just 2 hours previous, JFK was alive ,vibrant and happily waving to screaming fans just before his head was brutally blood spraying blown apart just inches from Jackie's eyes and in front of hundreds of close up eyewitnesses in broad daylight public.

These LBJ swearing in on Air Force One pics of Jackie will be one of our nation's most famous ones forever.

And even if LBJ lackey good-ole-boy Albert Thomas's wink was just a normal eye shutting caught in a fast pace shutter click, there is no misinterpreting that perversely out of place sick and cold blooded smile of his, right in the middle of what was one of the most sad and personal pain suffering times in our history.

Where was Thomas's appropriate somber and respectful empathy for not just Jackie, who was mere feet from him, but also for JFK whom he supposedly was friendly with?

Heck, Thomas gave Lyndon a look of congratulatory glee! Like LBJ just kicked the winning field goal in a Texas against Oklahoma conference title game!   ATABOY LYNDON ... YOU DID IT BABY! 

1 hour ago, Gayle Nix Jackson said:

Hello David and seriously?  You forgot how to spell my name and who I am?  I'm so upset!  I am Orville Nix's granddaughter, author of Orville Nix:  The Missing JFK Film and Pieces of the Puzzle.  You sent me a multi-page fax when I was on Geraldo.  And the part you did get right is that you're right.  I'm very upset because I have been given the run-around not only by our government but also by so-called researchers who have promised to help me find it.  The only researcher who has truly done the work I have is Chris Scally---a highly intelligent, serious, open-minded, meticulous researcher who knows more about my grandfather's film than I do.  After almost 60 years, we may be able to find an answer soon.

Ms. Jackson, hello.

How long have you been trying to find the missing film?

Why do think the film has disappeared?

I'm not informed at all regards the Nix film.

Could you maybe share what you have been told regards what your grandfather's film might have shown that was possibly so important versus the other known films? Possibly even earth shaking?

On 7/12/2021 at 3:25 PM, Robert Burrows said:

Operation Mockingbird continues...

Exactly Robert.

And it's all still highly placed and aggressively operational when it needs to be.

Stone casts " dark shadows on LBJ and Allen Dulles." ???

The truth is those two characters are 10 times darker in reality than our society has been allowed to know! J.E. Hoover too!

The credibility attacks on Stone are so obvious and shameless! Most Europeans see right through these phony attack pieces and their ridiculous misdirection silliness and true agenda. Americans by and large tend to be much more uninformed, gullible and naive imo.

2 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:

Full of revelations:

Robert Maxwell: Man in the Middle - by Greg Olear - PREVAIL by Greg Olear (substack.com)

 

Just read this article Doug.

Just another reality check on the real level of corruption in our highest circles of world wealth, privilege and power. Maxwell. Jeffrey Epstein.

People like the royals ( of many countries ) and many persons of our highest elective offices fawning over and selling themselves out to the super rich no matter how much of their new found friend's wealth is acquired through the sleaziest and most despicable criminal actions.

Robbing the poor mostly.

The Bush's with the Saudis, Trump with the Russians and money laundering banks and Saudis too. The Clintons too. Reagan too.

Reagan pockets  "two million CASH" from the Japanese for a two or three speech jaunt right after he is out of office? Two million? Please, that was a pay off.

Hillary Clinton pockets what ... $625.000 for two short question and answer sessions with Goldman Sachs people. All those Insanely high paid "Speaking Fee" engagements are payoffs. Wake up people.

• Hillary Clinton Cozies Up to Crony Capitalists at Goldman ...

  https://thenewamerican.com/hillary-clinton-cozies...

  Records show Bill and Hillary Clinton made over $125 million from giving paid speeches since 2001. In particular, critics question why Hillary Clinton received over $675,000 from Goldman Sachs, an...

  • Estimated Reading Time: 5 mins
•  

Anyone who doesn't think Pricilla Johnson's real, long term and extensive intelligence connections had no meaningful importance in the Marina and Lee Oswald story is choosing to be irresponsibly blind.

Where as Marina really didn't personally like Ruth Paine beyond a sincere appreciation for her very needed help during her pregnancy and birth with her second child, it appears that she did like P. Johnson and her company for many years afterwards.

P. Johnson's extensive first hand knowledge of and actual long term living experience in the Russia Marina knew along with a more worldly and urbane charm ( whether sincere or not) seemed to have greatly appealed to Marina. Johnson probably seemed like a very much more interesting world traveled ( especially Marina's Russia ) person to Marina.

And it seemed Johnson was a professionally practiced charmer, building up those she wanted to interview to get closer to. She knew how to handle difficult and cynical Lee Oswald with the skill of a practiced interrogator or psychologist who needs and knows how to put their interview subject at ease.

When I saw Priscilla Johnson Interviewed on the Dick Cavett show many years ago with Marina by her side, I swear it seemed Marina was so taken and dependent upon PJ that she often would pause after a direct question from Cavett and first look at PJ as if seeking approval before she answered. And Johnson would mutually look back at Marina often. Their unabashed affection for each other was a little too animated and obvious and frankly kind of creepy imo.

Johnson gave me the creeps as well. She had this animated big eyed, almost child like speaking manner. I immediately thought I was watching someone performing an exaggerated Carol Channing impersonation.

After the nightmare of the JFK murder and then her husband Lee , Marina, ironically, got to live the higher standard of living American life she probably only imagined, dreamed about and envied after seeing magazines depicting American women this way.

Fine clothes, hair do's, shopping at better stores than K-Mart or thrift shops and only having other women's clothing hand me downs to wear. She acquire a lot of money through donations from sympathetic people all across America. She got to live the good life for once in her life. She blossomed and began to be free with her life. Probably had a few affairs. She dressed and made herself into a beautiful American woman. Luckily, Marina was born already attractive. She was a double for the beautiful American actress Lee Remick. 

A life a million miles removed from the struggling and unhappy one she had with Lee.

She met many interesting people through Pricilla Johnson who appears to have become her mentor, even living with her. 

Life was good around PJ for Marina.

9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I was not at Cannes.  I just got some feedback from Rob Wilson, the producer who is there.  He said it was a really positive vibe at the press/exhibitors screening and the production company was excited about the reaction.  In fact, there was supposed to be one open screening on Tuesday, now there are two.

The part I wanted to harp on was the fact that although both the WC and the HSCA relied on CE 399, that bullet is clearly a fraud. It was never fired in Dealey Plaza and had utterly no chain of custody. (I loved how Henry Lee explained this.)  It would never be allowed in a court of law.  And we go into that in depth with documents.

Another part I wanted to accent was the whole Jeremy Gunn interview with Stringer for the ARRB.  Where he said that he did not do those skull x rays.  And he based it on the film type, and the technique used.  We had Horne do that one since he was in the room with Jeremy.

My other favorite part was the outlining of the two plots to kill JFK prior to Dallas, in Chicago and in Tampa.  Wait until you see what we did with Elmer Moore.

Why are some saying we might not be able to see the film ourselves here in the states?

Certainly not in theaters.

But what about TV and video release?

7 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Get a load of the ovation Oliver got here.

I think this was the first screening.  The day after he showed the Director's cut of JFK on the beach.

WOW!

I got chills of inspired feeling ( truly I did ) seeing this incredibly prolonged warm, electrically charged and animated and loudly cheering audience reaction to Stone's introduction.   Shouts of "BRAVO!"

The man and his lifetime portfolio of film work is respected and admired in Europe like you wouldn't believe. Almost heroically.

Accidently reposted this thread. Sorry. Don't know how to delete it.

I know that many members here for many reasons don't always click on new forum topic threads and even more often, topic expanding links provided in responding posts by other members.

That is why I am posting this following review of Jim Di's and Oliver Stone's new 2021  Cannes Film Festival JFK revisited film "Through the Looking Glass " in it's full printed entirety versus just a link.

In my opinion, the film is so important to us all and the entire world really and this particular review is an extremely thought provoking must read that ( in the least ) really draws you in to want to see the film.

I really feel almost an obligation to make this review more readily available to more of our members via it's own separate thread versus a link in the original thread that many might miss.

I can't wait to see the film. I'm guessing reading this review will inspire others ( like it did me ) to do the same.

I know that many members here for many reasons don't always click on new forum topic threads and even more often, topic expanding links provided in responding posts by other members.

That is why I am posting this following review of Jim Di's and Oliver Stone's new 2021  Cannes Film Festival JFK revisited film "Through the Looking Glass " in it's full printed entirety versus just a link.

The film is so important to us all and the entire world really, and (in the least) this particular review is an extremely thought provoking read that really draws you in to want to see the film.

I really feel almost an obligation to make this review more readily available to more of our members via it's own separate thread.

I can't wait to see the film. I'm guessing reading this review will inspire others to do the same.

Jim, I don't think our San Francisco Chronicle film critic Mick LaSalle likes to get into the JFK thing...but did he happen to do a critique?

Also, what parts of the film are you most excited about in the final cut regards revealing what you feel are the most important new aspects of this production?

Did you notice any new and somewhat consensus positive audience reactions over-all?

9 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Whoopi works!

I just read Whoopi's wiki.

WOW!

I am blown away by her incredible life-time body of work, achievement and success.

I never knew she had accomplished so much and in so many areas of interests.

She is a "super" achiever.  Obviously a person of incredible personal strength, courage and drive.

I also never knew how she acquired the stage name "Whoopi" until reading that others around her in her early club stand up comedy act time, compared her to a whoopi cushion because of her well known habit of letting loose on stage because as a performer on stage she just "didn't have time to go to the bathroom and shut the door."

7 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Here's the authoritative male voice of Ed Herlihy expounding what happened in Dallas: 

 

Yes. He was good. Edward Morrow was something in his day. I always liked Robert McNeil. Sutherland was and is certainly a speaker of wonderful capturing dramatic authority. Who could forget Orson Wells? Probably the best of them all? Anyone who could convince hundreds of average citizen radio listeners to frantically pack their bags and kids into the family car and speed away for the rural hills to avoid a "made up" Martian invasion is one great "Voice Of Authority."

There is a woman who used to be on the "Coast To Coast AM" late night radio talk show a lot. She was an investigative journalist by the name of Linda Moulten Howe who was the best and most compelling female guest that radio show ever presented. 

Yes, her main subject area of investigation and reporting was what many would call "fringe" paranormal such as cow mutilations, alien presence and even alien abductions of humans, secret government programs centered around alien ET technology and interactions with humans etc.

For some suspicious reasons this national radio show dropped her as a guest, but she had a wonderfully compelling speaking ability. Very dramatic without being over-the-top. A very intelligent and well toned and paced speaker. You never got bored with her, even after listening to her speak for two hours straight ( with commercial breaks .)

She would have been a great narrator for this JFK film. Better than Whoopi imo.

Yes, the Front Line narrator is very compelling.

21 hours ago, Richard Booth said:

There is a clip from the film here:

https://deadline.com/2021/07/oliver-stone-mainstream-docs-propaganda-pieces-us-empire-in-fear-revisiting-jfk-assassination-cannes-1234790181/

In the short clip you've got Mantik and Wecht and some talk on the single bullet theory.

The narration is Whoopi Goldberg, which I thought was a horrible choice when I first heard it. After some thought I think that it's probably a good choice to pick a person with a warm relatable voice, it may be compelling to an audience to hear a person they can relate with and trust delivering the facts rather than some kind of anonymous "voice of authority" type of narrator.

I'm imagining a typical well known male "voice of authority" type narrating the film.

Older liberal types like Morgan Freeman, Anthony Hopkins, Gene Hackman, Dustin Hoffman, George Clooney, Al Pacino.

I like Stacey Keach, narrator of the financial fraud crime investigation television show "American Greed."

But like others here, I listened to Goldberg and after some thought realized how logical it was to have a woman narrating this new film.

Doing so adds a dimension of needed "refreshing" newness and broader audience inclusivity imo.

Broader for women, younger persons etc..  

Having the same , male "old fogies" doing this would keep this story locked into it's past and just bore the hell out of new younger generations and even most women imo.

What about Goldberg?

Well, she's been an aggressive national stage commentator for social causes for decades.

She's got some gravitas not only with us of the baby boomer generation but the next two besides.

Sometimes famous stand up, stage and film comedians develop into national consciousness spokespersons.

Often their acts are centered around cutting through the false reality lies ( bullshit ) in our daily lives with biting witty humor. 

Goldberg has a serious acting and social activist resume ( national stage ) and reputation more than one would first imagine.

Could there have been any other female "voice of authority" that could have taken this role?

Not sure.

Meryl Streep? Kate Blanchett? Robin Wright? Naomi Watts? Ellen DeGeneres? Tina Fey? Angelina Jolie? 

Frances McDormand would have been a good choice imo.  She's got gravitas...for sure.

9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Paul Bleau writes another interesting piece for K and K. 

God, the Oswald mystery never ends does it. Had to be the most complex 24 year old ever.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/marina-s-sponsor-and-oswald-s-fifth-wallet?fbclid=IwAR0NciIcu0EsyLQCA91JH3FPZ4qBgFRS35A2OsCIjqPkr_bW7x30oRezTcE

Wow, what a fascinating read. What great research effort.

Just a thought: Could Marguerite have stolen that Wallet belonging to Byron Phillips...and with it already containing the 180 dollars?

How else could it and the substantial amount of cash inside have turned up in the possession of Marguerite Oswald / Lee Oswald without Byron Phillip's knowledge and consent?

This part of Bleau's essay also caught my eye regarding the aspect of Oswald's reportedly extreme "frugal" nature with money contrasting with Oswald's actual spending of it from the Summer of 1963 when he was in New Orleans ( when his only income was a brief employment stint at Reilly Coffee and minimum unemployment checks ) through his return to Fort Worth and his adventure trip to Mexico City.

Was the cash left on Marina’s dresser by Oswald really the 180 dollars the FBI reported being in the wallet?

Did this 180 bucks belong to Byron?

How on earth does a lone drifter, father of two, minimum wage earner, or often unemployed person for some 18 months since his penniless return from Russia, how does that person save the equivalent of 1600 dollars today? When he squanders some of his own money for his mindless FPCC adventure, travels to Mexico City, buys gifts for Marina, acquires expensive photographic equipment, moves several times, hires lawyers, buys guns and ammunition, pays for communist literature, etc.? White Russians even paid Oswald’s YMCA fees because he was so destitute.

And add onto Oswald's expenditures him paying others to help him pass out FPCC leaflets in N.O. The cost of paper and printing of his leaflets ( whose printing machine did he use for this?)

Obviously Oswald had access to extra funds, even if small, to finance his two FPCC projects. Wasn't this when Ruth Paine had taken in Marina and Junie and was literally paying for their basics back in Irving. TX?

Did Oswald ever send RP any money to help with those basics for his wife and child?

I once read a statement reportedly made by Dean Andrews where he personally ran down and confronted Oswald while Oswald was passing out his FPCC leaflets in downtown NO. Oswald still owed Andrews legal fees. Andrews asked what this action of Oswald was all about? and Oswald reportedly told Andrews "it was just a job."

JFK sometimes sent out messages to the American people through his speeches that revealed his real concern about the competing power entities that worked in ways outside our constitutionally framed and oversight government.

He realized how powerful the CIA had become. He realized that they held secrets even from him.

He realized that more and more they promoted and followed "their" own agenda often conflicting with his own.

JFK also became more aware of the extraordinary power of our military leaders ( Chiefs Of Staff ) and that if their agendas were different than his own, it wasn't impossible that these leaders could react dramatically and ominously against him.

JFK's secret society speech was one such public wake up call imo.

Akin to Ike Eisenhower's farewell Military Industrial Complex growing power and influence ("outsides the confines of our democratic principles and institutions" warning speech?

JFK also encouraged John Frankenheimer to follow through with the film "Seven Days In May."

Reportedly JFK felt the American people needed to know though a mass media film production, of the real possibility that a President could be removed through a coup by elements of our own military. Another warning effort.

I believe Kennedy knew more and more how much these outside forces had become so powerful as Eisenhower had warned, and if a president wasn't going to promote these secret power groups agendas, a very real scenario of overthrow could happen.

6 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

 

"Joe,  I reviewed both of Shaw's books on Kilgallen. I thought the first one was Ok ..."

Okay in what way if you could explain?

You obviously feel that Kilgallen was indeed murdered. Would you consider that whoever did murder her was or was not connected in anyway to those who killed JFK?

Thanks.

The Miami police department took Milteer's JFK shooting attempt plan comments ( from an office building window with a high powered rifle - picking up a patsy soon after ) on the secret tape made just a week or two before JFK's arrival there so seriously, they changed JFK's entire transportation security plan in part because of it.

The Miami PD had to have made a background check on Milteer before the taping which obviously told them this guy was one serious, well connected and dangerous threat to JFK. Enough so they felt they had to do something as involved as planting secret tape recorders and manipulating Milteer to talk about JFK with a planted source.

You'd think, after this astounding comment recording of this very serious threat individual, that every national and big city police agency concerned with JFK's security during his multi-state political campaign jaunt would have had a 24 /7 tail on this deadly serious, dangerous and nationally connected character who was also wealthy and was involved in other deadly force incidents centered around his extreme racial hatred sentiments and activities.

If Milteer was in Dealey Plaza when JFK was slaughtered there as he bragged he was ... his foreknowledge has to be considered as one of the most important leads in the case imo. 

And Milteer obviously knew Guy Bannister. They were both members of the same racial hatred groups, at the same time and both considered higher ups.

10 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

BTW on Rothmiller, we have the guy who on that who I think is the best on the MM stuff, Don McGovern.

He really knows that field.  

He and I will be doing a co written review of the new Mark Shaw book. 

JD, I don't recall reading or hearing your radio interviews where you mention anything regards the Dorothy Kilgallen story.

I await your review of Mark Shaw's latest book.

Besides the MM theories, to what extent do you feel Kilgallen was murdered and by those truly connected to JFK's killing in Dallas?

Oswald had the appetite size proclivity of a mouse.

What was it that his North Beckley rooming house housekeeper Earlene Roberts described regards his food choices he kept in the shared refrigerator and maybe a pantry shelf?  Milk ... and bread and peanut butter or baloney? That's it.

My guess is Oswald was on his own so much as a child with his single mom mother working all the time and probably had to make his own meals. And what does a poor kid make himself? Peanut butter sandwiches, cold cereal with milk, maybe an occasional banana? The man was never going to be fat with a gut.

On 7/6/2021 at 7:17 AM, John Butler said:

Someone has tried to prove or show Oswald had a square or wide chin in the film by alteration of the chin in the film presented in this thread.  This would match the photo of Oswald as seen in the Backyard Photos.  This is simply an attempt to prove the validity of the Backyard Photos.  There is always someone who will quote the WC or HSCA statements that the Backyard Photos are authentic.  There is not many people who believe that after Jack White and other researchers provided at least 15 things wrong with the photo.  I added an extra to howls of outrage.

The best guest is that Roscoe White is the author of the Backyard Photos.  White provided the body up to and including the chin.  Oswald provided the head down to the chin.  Oswald said his head was superimposed on the body when shown the photo.  He said he could prove it. 

The photo below gives one a look at Roscoe's chin and the peculiarity of his wrist.  They match the photo giving a good possibility that Roscoe White is the author.  Leaving the wide chin is an indication that the author of the Backyard Photos was not a skilled photo editor.  

The introduction of the Backyard Photos and their falsity is one of the many reasons Oswald had to die.  Proving their falsity in court would prove that Oswald was framed and therefore innocent. 

  

Here is something a ran across while looking for the White/Oswald comparison:

[[ posted on alt.conspiracy.jfk on 10/08/96 by:
jackwhite ]]
=====================================================

------------------------- The Roscoe White Curse? -----------------------

About 6 years ago I was at the old JFK-AIC in the Dallas West End when the
Roscoe White News Conference was held.

At the **head table** in the front of the assembly space, in addition to
Ricky White and Roscoe*s minister, were 5 prominent JFK researchers. All were
comparatively young or middle-aged and vigorous, and each presented some
aspect of the Roscoe White story. These researchers were...

BERNARD **BUD** FENSTERWALD
GARY SHAW
LARRY HOWARD
JOE WEST
LARRY RAY HARRIS

Now, about 6 years later 4 of the 5 are dead, despite their relative youth
and vigor. Coincidence? Or curse? Given their ages and good health, it would
be interesting to see actuarial statistics on this, in the manner of the
famed **mysterious deaths** study.

FENSTERWALD, who founded/funded the Washington Assassination Information
Bureau and supported the AIC, became ill while dining in Dallas. He cancelled
appointments and flew back to Washington, where he died of a sudden **heart
attack**.

WEST, the Houston private investigator who later discovered the James Files
story, was just fine when I talked with him on the phone on a Friday. Almost
incidentally, he told me that at a recent health check-up, his doctor
recommended heart by-pass surgery for the following Monday; he said he would
call me after the surgery. The heart surgery was a success...but his
breathing never resumed. He was kept alive for a while by a lung machine, but
died without ever regaining consciousness.

HOWARD, the ardent JFK buff who (with Gary Shaw) co-founded the Dallas JFK
Information Center, had been doing further Roscoe White research in West
Texas, along with a **former FBI agent**. While driving late at night, Larry
suffered a **stroke**. When he died, the JFK-AIC died with him.

HARRIS, the young reseach expert on the Tippit killing, has now died in a
recent auto accident (one-car?) for which we have few details as of now.

SHAW, the other co-director of the AIC, is the SOLE SURVIVOR of this group.
We hope that Gary is very very careful in the future, whether these deaths
are curse, conspiracy, or coincidence.

GENEVA WHITE DEES, Roscoe*s widow, also died during this period.

Less than a year after attending this news conference, I was attacked in my
bedroom at 5 a.m. on Sunday by a nude intruder, who (unprovoked) stabbed me
in the chest with an ice pick 12 times and hit me in the head, fracturing my
skull and destroying my hearing (right ear) and balance (permanent vertigo).
At the time I was serving as a (unpaid) photo consultant to Oliver Stone in
the production of JFK. I was in the hospital for 22 days with the skull
fracture and collapsed lung, for four days near death. Coincidence?
Conspiracy? Or Roscoe White curse?

 

Really ominous.

Whether faked or not, I am always struck by Oswald's unusual body and head and neck anatomy.

In the photo above, where a photo of Roscoe White is next to one of Oswald holding the rifle in his backyard, Oswald's head and neck seem starkly larger and thicker in proportion to the rest of Oswald's upper body than a normal person imo.

Oswald has extremely small bone and short horizontal length narrow shoulders.

Yet in this photo his neck seems abnormally wide and thick. Especially in contrast to his extremely small narrow shoulders.

Same with his head size. Oswald has a very thin, short and small over-all body frame. He weighed what...140 to 150 lbs?

But in this photo his head seems so large in comparison to his lower body frame it doesn't seem anatomically correct.

Not suggesting anything conspiratorial at all with this odd body, neck, head proportion of Oswald observation. Just that it stands out to me. Oswald's neck is so wide/thick I thought perhaps he might have suffered from some thyroid malfunction condition.

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Kirk,

     To what extent was LBJ an idealist?   It's an interesting question.

     My take is heavily influenced by studying Phillip Nelson's two books* on the subject, which paint a very dismal portrait of LBJ as a deeply disturbed narcissist and sociopath-- a man who would do, literally, anything to acquire power and public acclaim.

     Apparently, LBJ never shrank from blatant sycophancy, stuffing ballet boxes, accepting kickbacks, manipulating agencies, bribery, threats, and even murdering people to ascend to the highest public office in the land.   Mr. Caddy and others are far more familiar with the sordid details of LBJ's history than I am, including the allegations of Billy Sol Estes, et.al.

      If LBJ was, in fact, a narcissist and a sociopath, his promotion of JFK's domestic political agenda-- including the Civil Rights Act-- after 11/22/63 was most likely based not on idealism, but on his assessment of his own political self-interest.  My hunch is that he was willing to antagonize Richard Russell and his old Dixiecrat Congressional colleagues in 1964 because he knew that he needed to woo the liberal majority of the Democratic Party to get re-elected.  Perhaps he was also anxious to minimize any suspicion of his involvement in JFK's assassination-- in the same way that he carefully insisted that he had not altered JFK's Vietnam policy.

     Of course, the end result of his machinations was the passage of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, Medicare, Medicaid, and the Great Society legislation.  He did good.

     As I said above, I would file this one under, "God works in strange ways."

     As for JFK's relationship with the VP Bobby called, "Colonel Cornpone," Nelson depicts JFK as being cordial but wary of Lyndon.  I recall an anecdote from Nelson's books in which LBJ is hanging around the White House, and JFK worriedly asks Bobby, "What is Lyndon doing here?"

* https://www.amazon.com/LBJ-Mastermind-JFK-Assassination/dp/B00BAFOTXI/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Phillip+Nelson&qid=1625617396&s=books&sr=1-1

https://www.amazon.com/LBJ-Mastermind-Colossus-Phillip-Nelson/dp/1628736925/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=Phillip+Nelson&qid=1625617435&s=books&sr=1-10

Good assessment of LBJ in my opinion.

He would do "anything" to gain, keep and increase his political and even personal interests.

I could easily believe he ordered murders. Henry Marshall for one.

His aggressive promotion and implementation of his "Great Society" programs was to try to establish another legacy of himself besides a totally corrupt sociopathic crook from the well known ( Ed Clark run ) corrupt state of Texas one.

Like Al Capone giving more to charity than our government wants people to know.

And El Chapo giving billions back to the poor. He was likened to Robin Hood in this way.

Countless ruthless big money criminals have done the same thing. Hoping to establish a better legacy than just ruthless killer.

Remember, if JFK hadn't been murdered, those investigations into LBJ's corrupt business dealings would have gone on. 

No matter the outcome, JFK could never have kept the tainted LBJ on the 1964 presidential election ticket. LBJ knew this.

His "only" chance for political survival and a term as president was with JFK's total removal.

Bobby Kennedy knew how corrupt and dangerous LBJ truly was. He once described LBJ as "an animal."

Both LBJ and Hoover needed RFK gone. If RFK was ever president...both those guys ( "we're like brothers" LBJ to Hoover)

would be ruined and maybe even indicted.