W. Niederhut

And, if Epstein was eliminated in a conspiracy involving the DOJ -- as in the cases of the JFK assassination and 9/11-- the forensic evidence and any investigation(s) will be controlled by the perpetrators.

If Epstein was working for the Mossad, as Phillip Giraldi believes, we'll probably never hear about it in the mainstream media. When was the last time the MSM ever published a story about activities of the world's most sophisticated, effective intelligence agency? Entebbe?

Former Israeli PM Ehud Barak’s many ties to Epstein https://israelpalestinenews.org/former-israeli-pm-ehud-baraks-many-ties-to-epstein/

I like film noir, in general, and loved the old Rod Serling Twilight Zone show in the early 60s, so I thought Seven Days in May was a real gem. (Rod Serling wrote the screenplay for Seven Days in May.) It's worth watching just to see the vintage cars and fashions from my childhood. And, speaking of Lemnitzer, the President in Seven Days in May, oddly, is named, "Lyman." It's a deeply disturbing narrative about the Joint Chiefs butting heads with a POTUS who is trying to avert a nuclear holocaust.

After reading about Edward Lewis here yesterday I watched Seven Days in May last night, for the first time ever. What a remarkable, terrifying film! Apparently, JFK had encouraged Kirk Douglas and Frankenheimer to make the movie, and even went to Cape Cod for two weekend visits so that the producers could film the Oval Office scenes in the White House. The Pentagon, not surprisingly, opposed the production. Filming began in September of 1963, and the movie premiered in theaters on February 12, 1964-- only 12 weeks after JFK's murder. Does anyone here know the history of how the film was received in the U.S.? It must, surely, have concerned some of our military brass. Were there any known efforts by the Pentagon or LBJ administration to suppress distribution or pan the film in 1964? (I was seven at the time, but have no recollection of my family or peers seeing the film at our local theater, (unlike, say, Goldfinger, Mary Poppins, or My Fair Lady. )

Indeed. We have old Hispanic towns here in southern Colorado (Trinidad, Alamosa, Salida, Pueblo, Durango, Monte Vista, Cortez, etc.) that existed long before my Anglo ancestors migrated out to the Colorado Indian territory after the Civil War. In fact, like west Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and California, south Colorado was part of Mexico that was "sold" to the U.S. in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

True, but at least Leone's films featured haciendas, sarapes, and authentic Roman Catholic monasteries. BTW, I noticed that the El Paso killer, Patrick Crusius, wrote in his pre-massacre manifesto about the "Hispanic invasion of Texas." When I saw that, I wondered what planet the kid had been living on. The Hispanic invasion of Texas started almost 500 years ago!

LOL. I always loved those rare Westerns that didn't completely edit the Mexicans (and Spanish friars) out of American history-- the Zorro shows and, especially, Sergio Leone's spaghetti Westerns. It's one reason that The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly has been my favorite Western for the past 50+ years, ever since I first watched it as a lad. One of the singular ironies in the history of the Old West is that after we extorted half of Mexico (at gunpoint) in the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo, Mexicans were always depicted in our Western mythology as "bandidos."

And selective leaks of Epstein's evidence, similar to what happened with Trump's misleading, "Nunes Memo," from the House Intel Committee that "did not look for evidence of collusion" and "did not find evidence of collusion."

Ah, yes, Allen Dulles's protege, Priscilla What's-Her-Face-- the CIA's biographer of Marina Oswald... But, speaking of the Dulles disinformation about the Bay of Pigs, the best analysis I have ever read about it is in Destiny Betrayed. Col. L. Fletcher Prouty wrote about his own observations during the Bay of Pigs invasion, but the DiEugenio chapter (in Destiny Betrayed) explained the whole charade in considerable detail.

My wife talked me into watching that recent Stephen King television series about Lee Harvey Oswald. Several hours of my life that I'll never get back again... 😬

Good article about a longstanding CIA propaganda methodology, and its recent application to the Syrian debacle. One thing that I've noticed, studying the history of Allen Dulles, Angleton, Cord Meyer, C.D. Jackson, et.al., is how diabolically clever those guys were-- and knowledgeable about psychological ops/propaganda techniques! And it's no accident that some of the guys involved in developing their complex black ops were writers and ad men-- Angleton, E. Howard Hunt, Edward Lansdale, Cord Meyer, David Atlee Phillips, et.al. Their complex web of false narratives has been one reason it has been so difficult to solve the JFK assassination mystery. As for Syria, one of the only honest comments that I have ever heard in the mainstream U.S. media about CIA Operation Timber Sycamore was made by Columbia University Professor Jeffrey Sachs on MSNBC, following our most recent bombing of Douma. In addition to calling attention to our covert strategy of arming Sunni proxies to overthrow the Assad regime, Sachs talked about the disastrous plight of Syria's war refugees and ruined cities, and said, "We've done enough damage already. We need to get out."

I'm adding another anti- conspiracy theory propagandist to the list-- lucky number 13... 🤪 13) Lance Payette

He could be getting paid to infiltrate and harass people on this forum-- like Cass Sunstein's Big Brotherly "cognitive infiltrators." They operate on the basis of Sunstein's bizarre theory that "most conspiracy theories about the U.S. government are false," because, 1) the government rarely deceives the American people, and 2) the mainstream media always keeps the public fully informed about covert military ops... 🤪

FYI, folks. Speaking as a psychiatrist who has had experience treating people involved in cults, my impression is that the JFK assassination research community is the precise OPPOSITE of a cult. For one thing, it is largely a community of educated scholars who have been drawn to the subject of JFK's assassination by intellectual curiosity and rational skepticism about the ubiquitous, fraudulent narratives in our mainstream media. In contrast, cult members are typically drawn to cults through manipulation and brainwashing by sociopathic, charismatic leaders. In cults, intellectual curiosity and open dialogue questioning authoritarian dogma is anathematized-- the precise opposite of the dynamic on this forum. Scholarly people here often disagree with each other and poke holes in each other's arguments, in the process of better understanding the facts. The reason that the specious arguments of Warren Commission Report defenders here consistently fall flat is that intellectually curious people see through the nonsense. That's why they ended up here in the first place.

By "legitimate," I mean scientifically and historically accurate, true. Surely, any informed person here could cite many examples of people with academic and/or government credentials who have published fraudulent claims, for financial or political reasons-- including some of my fellow Harvard University alumni. To believe otherwise is, frankly, ludicrous. As for Cass Sunstein-- the distinguished Felix Frankfurter Professor of social media surveillance and government propaganda hot dogs-- his treatise on the necessity of "cognitive infiltration" and manipulation of social media was put through the shredder by Professor David Ray Griffin. Anyone interested should check the Unz reference that I posted on the "Cognitive Infiltration" thread here over the weekend. Joseph Stalin would have LOVED Cass Sunstein. Remember when Joe Djugashvili once said, "Ideas are far more dangerous than guns. If we don't allow people to have guns, why would we allow them to have ideas?"

Question for the forum. Has anyone involved in scientific and historical research about subjects like the JFK assassination, Watergate, Iran-Contra, or 9/11 ever published a reference list of authors, books, articles, movies, and websites that publish disinformation about so-called, "Conspiracy Theories?" It would, obviously, be a very long list. As a newcomer here, I have only been involved in studying these subjects for a few years, and it has taken awhile to sort through the ubiquitous disinformation on the internet-- which often surfaces toward the top of Google searches, and is usually presented to the public as rational "debunking" of "conspiracy theories" by people with legitimate-sounding academic and/or government credentials. On a typical Google search, I have noticed that accurate, evidence-based research references about controversial subjects usually appear only AFTER pages 2 or 3 on Google-- following dozens of bogus, legitimate-sounding references to websites ridiculing kooky "conspiracy theorists." I know some reasonably well educated people who have been completely duped by this ubiquitous propaganda, to this day. It is, certainly, published with a slick veneer of credibility. We also know that propagandists within the U.S. government-- from Frank Wisner, Allen Dulles and Cord Meyer to Cass Sunstein -- have been actively involved for decades in misleading the public about covert government ops. Sunstein has even argued that "conspiracy theorists" studying covert U.S. government ops need to be undermined by internet propaganda and "cognitive infiltration," because, 1) the government has rarely deceived the public about covert ops, and 2) the mainstream media in our open society always keeps the public informed about government duplicity (!) I have come to the conclusion that only people who have carefully studied and understood the actual science and history can see through this pervasive veneer of government-funded propaganda. Here are a few obvious examples, based on my own review. But I would appreciate any additions to this brief list-- or a reference to someone who has done this work. Anti- "Conspiracy Theory" Propaganda Sources 1) The Warren Commission Report 2) Case Closed by Gerald Posner 3) Reclaiming History by Vincent Bugliosi 4) McAdams.edu 5) Metabunk.com 6) RationalWiki.com 7) The 9/11 Commission Report 8) Wikipedia 9) Popularmechanics.com 10) skepticalinquirer.org 11) 911myths.com 12) skeptical-science.com

This Safari Club history seems to get to the heart of the matter regarding CIA Operation Timber Sycamore in Syria-- and combined U.S., NATO, Mossad, and Saudi ops since the days of the Soviet Afghan War, including (dare I say it?) the 9/11 op.

Most of the recent media attention about Jeffrey Epstein has focused on the sordid, shocking stories about teen sex trafficking with celebrities and politicians. But the guy, apparently, also had a lengthy history of major, shady business deals, after he stopped teaching at New York City's Dalton School (where he was, coincidentally, hired by AG Bill Barr's father) to work at Bear Stearns. FWIW, according to his Wiki bio, Epstein... 1) He was, allegedly, involved with Saudi businessman Adnan Khashoggi in the Iran-Contra related sale of Israeli weapons to Iran. 2) Was directly involved in the fraudulent ratings of subprime mortgage-backed derivatives, which caused the collapse of Bear Stearns (and the Great Recession.) 3) Was a close business associate of former Israeli Prime Minister (and Israeli Mossad Director) Ehud Barak.

Addendum: As a brief summary, I should mention that Professor David Ray Griffin's detailed critique here of Cass Sunstein's arguments for "cognitive infiltration" of social media sites that focus on "conspiracy theories" should be required reading for anyone who is interested in the subject of U.S. government surveillance and disruption of research forums that challenge government narratives. (Apologies if this old hat here.) Griffin's analysis is especially worthwhile for it's critique of Sunstein's claim that most "conspiracy theories" that challenge U.S. government narratives are false and unjustified. Why does Sunstein make this bizarre foundational claim? Because... 1) The U.S. government almost never conspires to deceive the public about covert military and intelligence ops... (Huh?) 😬 And, 2) In an "open" society like the U.S., the public can always rely on the mainstream media to keep them fully informed about U.S. government ops! Ergo, anyone who questions U.S. government narratives about covert ops is, obviously, nuts, and needs to be under surveillance.

Paul, I agree that Al Franken's comments about getting the "Jew call" from Ed Koch on 9/11 were intended as political satire. I was merely referencing the source his actual quote-- which, in the context of the Odigo fore warnings, isn't very funny, is it? As for Christopher Bollyn, he's a lone investigative journalist who has carefully documented the censored history of 9/11 for the past 18 long years. He originally became interested in the suppressed history of 9/11 after reading about the "Dancing" Israeli Mossad agents arrested by the Holland Tunnel on 9/11, and the fact that the story was completely blacked out of the mainstream media after 9/11 Under the circumstances, it's not surprising that you, and others, have never heard of Bollyn or the documented facts about the five "Dancing Israelis." Try this link. http://www.bollyn.com/

Good reference about Cass Sunstein's program of "cognitive infiltration" of social media to attack and impugn the reputations of research of scientists and scholars who have debunked false U.S. government narratives. Interestingly, Sunstein's main concern about so-called "conspiracy theorists" has not been with 8chan guys who buy guns and ammo at Wal-Mart, but with scientists and scholars who have debunked the U.S. government and mainstream media narratives about 9/11. Cognitive Infiltration http://www.unz.com/book/david_ray_griffin__cognitive-infiltration/

Advice appreciated, Jim. I've never been a fan of censorship, but a few of the bugliosers here probably need to be filtered. A professor at my alma mater used to tell his students to, "Read the good stuff. Life is too short to waste reading crap."

Pay-out, As a psychiatrist who has actually treated many patients suffering from paranoia during the past 35 years, I'm not impressed by young Daniel Freedman's self-advertising and pop-psychology VR "therapies" -- with the possible exception of VR for desensitization of phobias. My hunch is that his clinical outcomes in treating paranoia stink-- in the absence of anti-psychotic meds.. In fact, the guy strikes me as a pop psychology salesman. Where did he recruit the "paranoid" patients for his "studies?" Do you have any idea how difficult it is to develop a working alliance with a paranoid person? (Hint: They don't tend to show up at clinics with a chief complaint of being, "paranoid.") BTW, do you even know the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist? Next question. How was young Daniel Freedman recruited to throw in his pop psychology two cents into this mysterious NIH-related "study" about "conspiracy theorists?" Let me guess. Was it someone with influence over the NIH who is very concerned about the American public discovering the truth about 9/11? Someone who would reference non-scientists like Daniel Pipes and Cass Sunstein in the introduction of a pseudo- "science" paper about "conspiracy theorists?" Get real. Do you also believe the pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo about 9/11 published by Michael Chertoff's cousin in Popular Science, and the 9/11 NIST report? Those pseudo-scientific propaganda pieces are similar to the "Great Pumpkin" theory about the trajectory of JFK's head that the CIA paid some academician to invent after the public finally got to see the Zapruder film in 1975. Only people who don't understand science are bamboozled by your nonsense. Adios.

Paul, Here are two references on the subjects of 1) Odigo, and 2) the Al Franken quote. I'm very familiar with journalist Christopher Bollyn's work. (Notice the video of Netanyahu confirming the miraculously few Israeli casualties at the WTC on 9/11.) The other link quotes an excerpt from Franken's own book. He was, apparently, warned by Ed Koch to stay away from the WTC on 9/11. 1) The Odigo Warnings & the 4,000 Israelis Saved on 9-11 http://www.bollyn.com/9-11-archive-2015-2/#article_15231 2) Sen. Al Franken Admits Being Warned About 9-11 Beforehand https://www.meetup.com/StLouis9-11Questions/messages/77776097/ October 15, 2015 "TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, I GOT THE JEW CALL." In his book, Lies and the Lying XXXXX Who Tell Them, Sen. Al Franken admits to having been warned not to go to work at the World Trade Center on 9-11. Why have the government and "free press" in the United States not investigated this report? Senator Al Franken admits in his book, Lies and the Lying XXXXX Who Tell Them (2003), that he received a call from the former mayor of New York, Ed Koch, warning him not to go to his office in the World Trade Center on 9-11, using the Hebrew calendar as a reference for the date, which was September 11, 2001. Franken refers to this warning call as the "Jew call." "Al", he told me, "don't go to work on the twenty-third day of Elul." Al Franken may have been a comedian who went to Washington, but this is not funny. Being forewarned about 9-11 is a criminal matter. Calls to Sen. Al Franken's office in Washington at (202)[masked], were not answered, although they were made during working hours. Furthermore, Franken's press secretary, Michael Dale Stein at (202)[masked], did not answer either his office phone or his mobile phone during business hours. Stein's mobile phone said the mail box was empty so messages could not even be left.