W. Niederhut

Interesting stuff. I read Don DeLillo's novel, Libra, many years before I ever began to study some of the serious research about the JFK assassination. At the time, I still simply assumed that Lee Harvey Oswald had been JFK's nutty, lone assassin. DeLillo is a great literati but I'll have to re-read the novel to assess his merit as a historian.

Natural Born Killers is quite a disturbing piece of work by Oliver Stone, as is Talk Radio, (based loosely on the murder of our local talk radio host, Alan Berg, here in Denver in the 1980s.) But, I wonder if we will ever hear the real story about what Charles Harrelson was doing in Dallas on 11/22/63-- if he was, in fact, there. I read somewhere (?) that Harrelson told someone that he was in Houston on 11/22/63. I was hoping that some of the experts on this forum might have the straight story.

I recently watched Woody Harrelson in the movie, Three Billboards Outside of Ebbing, Missouri, and I recalled reading that Woody's father, Charles V. Harrelson, was a professional hit man who may have been one of the "Three Tramps" photographed in Dealey Plaza after JFK's assassination-- after being found by the police in a box car behind the Grassy Knoll. There seem to be conflicting accounts on-line about whether Harrelson was the "Tramp" in the middle of the Dealey Plaza "Three Tramps" photo. Incredibly, none of the "Three Tramps" were finger-printed or arrested on 11/22/63. At the time of his 1980 arrest in El Paso for the murder of U.S. Judge John Wood, (in San Antonio) Harrelson reportedly claimed that he had killed JFK, then, later, changed his story. He also, allegedly, said, later, that he would not have accepted a contract to kill JFK, because "the Mafia would have killed (him) the way they killed Oswald." Harrelson, reportedly, died at the Federal Supermax prison here in Florence, Colorado in 2007. My question. Was Harrelson, in fact, one of the "Three Tramps" in the Dealey Plaza photograph? Secondly, if he was, wouldn't he, logically, be considered a major suspect in the JFK assassination, since he was, obviously, a hit man?

Remarkable... Oswald read Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Gogol, and Turgenev in Russian? How do we explain that one?

David, I have been a Board Certified American psychiatrist for the past 30 years. Although I have not studied much about Oswald, and have not read his actual writings, I find it hard to believe that he suffered from a major mental illness-- including any serious cognitive or executive function deficits. Why? Mainly because of his "successful" service in the Marine Corps, and his apparent, long-term work for U.S. intelligence-- including a protracted stint as a false defector to the USSR. Such work would require fairly high ego functioning and commitment over time-- moving to a foreign country, maintaining a "legend," working, getting married, etc. Emigrating to a foreign country is extremely stressful for most people, in general, especially for those who don't speak or understand the language well. As for his alleged language disability, the diagnosis seems questionable for someone who, reportedly, learned Russian at the U.S. military school in Monterey, California during his Marine Corps service. On the other hand, I can see why the Warren Commission would have been interested in portraying Oswald as mentally impaired. A "Lone Nut" is, by definition, a "nut." I wonder if there has been much written (by George De Mohrenschildt or Marina) about Oswald's fluency in Russian.

The growth rate of the U.S. national debt fell dramatically during the Clinton years, partly as a result of the Democrats increasing the top income tax rate in 1993-- by a 51-50 Senate vote, with Vice President Al Gore casting the tie breaking vote. In the 2000 Bush-Gore Presidential debates, the subject of what to do with the Clinton budgetary surplus (of 2000) was raised. Gore said that he would use the money to stabilize Social Security. Dubya said that he would "give the money back to the taxpayers." And we all know how that story ended-- a doubling of the national debt by 2009, and two expensive, unfunded wars, along with the worst recession since the Great Depression. As for the bank bailouts, as I recall, the first $800 billion dollar bank bailout was enacted by Bush and Paulson in late 2008.

No dispute with me, at all, about Dubya's many policy disasters, Jim. I have always been the very opposite of a Dubya Bush apologist. In my view, the man's White House tenure was an unmitigated disaster for this country. In January of 2001, Bill Clinton left Bush and Cheney with very realistic prospects of paying off the $5 trillion dollar national debt-- as even Alan Greenspan said in his memoir, A Time of Turbulence. Instead, Bush and Dick "Deficits Don't Matter" Cheney pushed through their misguided Reaganomic tax cuts of 2001 and 2003, and amassed multi-trillion dollar Afghanistan and Iraq war debts on carefully crafted, false pretexts. As Paul O'Neill described in The Price of Loyalty, Rumsfeld talked about the PNAC Iraq War agenda in the very first Bush-Cheney cabinet meeting in 2001. No doubt, Bush and Cheney contributed bigly to the misanthropic libertarian "Starve the Beast" strategy for the destruction of the U.S. welfare state. They simply passed the buck, and their $10 trillion dollar debt, to Obama.

No need to apologize, Denis. But, now that I understand the subject of your 1976 News Journal article, it seems like a variation on the Warren Commission's age old "Lone Nut" narrative.

My bad. I, mistakenly, assumed that Denis's link was related to the topic of this thread. As for the Wilmington News Journal, it was still owned by Prescott Bush's close friends, the DuPont family, in 1976. The DuPont family always had very good chemistry with Prescott Bush-- during the 1934 coup attempt against FDR, and during Prescott's stint in the Senate.

Denis, I'm shocked, shocked to see that a semi-reputable U.S. newspaper published this (admittedly vague) article in 1976 claiming that the alleged 11/29/63 Hoover memo about a meeting with "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" didn't actually exist! Who'd have thunk?! This article, obviously, sets the historical record straight. CIA Director George H.W. Bush was telling the truth all along, (as was the bewildered former CIA accountant George William Bush.) Those members of Congress, and Joseph McBride, must have been hallucinating when they thought they read an alleged 11/29/63 Hoover memo that had somehow miraculously escaped the shredder! Fortunately, we Americans can always rely on our newspapers to keep us properly informed about such silly "Deep State" conspiracy theories. Thanks for sharing, and for kindly endeavoring to keep us all so well-informed, once again.

Yes, there has always been something very oily about GHWB and Dubya-- beyond their founding roles in Zapata Offshore and Arbusto. (BTW, I was astonished to read, in Family of Secrets, that Osama Bin Laden's brother had been a major investor in Dubya's Arbusto Oil company.) As for 11/22/63, we know that GHWB was at the Dallas Sheraton on 11/21/63 and, thanks to Mr. McBride, we know that GHWB represented the CIA in an 11/29/63 meeting with J. Edgar Hoover about the investigation of JFK's assassination. Who was the wiseacre who once said, "The FBI guards the bank, and the CIA robs the bank?"

Endlessly fascinating old Education Forum thread here, which I have been perusing today in relation to recent discussions about GHWB and Dubya Bush on 1/22/63. My recent forum questions on these subjects are, obviously, about a decade behind those in the research community discussions here. Better late than never. The only reference to Dubya Bush and JFK on this thread was about Lee Harvey Oswald's Marine Corps friend Bill Lord's letter to President Jimmy Carter in (?)1977. Bill Lord mentioned to Carter that two men-- apparently, Edward Epstein and George W. Bush -- were pressuring him to find out what he knew about Oswald!

Didn't Alex Jones recently threaten to kill Robert Mueller?

Agreed. Bush's "compassionate conservatism" shtick was always bunk. On the flip side, Barbara Bush publicly criticized the Tea Party House's adamant refusal to accept Obama's July 2011 "Mother of all no brainers" debt-reduction deal, by saying, "Compromise is not a dirty word." A person standing slightly left of the Koch's Tea Party "libertarians" would still be playing squarely in right field.

Thanks for sharing. I intend to read your book. U.S. media censorship of Bush family history is a curious subject.

Speaking for myself, I certainly wouldn't "reduce" this philosophical Koch/Buchanan movement to Bush, by any stretch. If anything, I view the Bush family as being somewhat to the left of the Koch-funded Tea Party "misanthropic libertarians" on the current political spectrum. I was merely pointing out that Prescott Bush, in particular, spent his political career trying to protect the financial interests of his immensely wealthy Wall Street peers, (as did the Dulles brothers) from the progressive, utilitarian reforms of the New Deal. And, surely, Prescott Bush and his family despised the Kennedy brothers.

From what I have heard and read, ( e.g., American Dynasty by Kevin Phillips, Family of Secrets, etc.) Prescott Bush greatly admired the British aristocracy and caste system. The family was very conscious of their status as wealthy, well-connected, New England blue bloods. As an example, Barbara Bush (nee Pierce) was a direct descendant of U.S. President Franklin Pierce, (from New Hampshire.) The Bush family has been an integral part of the old W.A.S.P. aristocracy of New England, New York , (New Haven, etc.) So, IMO, the Bush family's anti-utilitarian, "misanthropic libertarianism" has not been a result of any deep philosophical or economic theorizing in the Gothic lecture halls of Yale, but is inherent in the culture of their family and exalted Yankee social class. And, like most wealthy old Yankee families, the Bushes have always downplayed their high socio-economic status-- even adopting the dress and vernacular of west Texas cowboys, Spanish-speaking Floridians, and what-have-you. In that sense, the Bush family's New England WASP social class and culture was a notch or two above the successful Irish immigrant Kennedy clan, and two or three notches above the gauche, nouveau riche Taj Mahal Casino culture of Donald Trump. Unlike Trump, people from those old, wealthy, Yankee families in New England never brag about their immense wealth. Both George Bush's were very skilled at concealing their political advocacy on behalf of their own class interests, while promoting their policies through subtle appeals to the commoners. (As was Winston Churchill.) GHWB used to say, "I want to be the "Education President," while doing photo ops at inner city black schools. Then he would quietly slash public education funding. At heart, the Bushes always seemed secretly cynical -- almost amused-- about the necessary pretense of populism. With the Kennedy family, it was no pretense. IMO, they sincerely cared about the fate of humanity.

Thanks for sharing, Mr. Gallaway. We have been doubly blessed by the keen intellect and obvious wit of both of your informative posts on this thread. And, after all, what subject could, conceivably, be more hilarious than the possible presence of two future Republican presidents at the assassination of President John F. Kennedy? 😬

One thing that I have learned this week is that a lot of people, (including Jefferson Morley on a 2013 JFK Facts thread I reviewed) seem very uncomfortable about the subject of George H.W. Bush's possible involvement in the plot to assassinate JFK. Not saying that I know what happened, by any stretch, (!) but the research community seems somewhat polarized about this awkward subject. That same awkwardness seems to surround the subject of the Bush family's close relationship with John Hinckley's family.

Prescott Bush was always hostile to the utilitarianism of the New Deal, and was, apparently, involved in the attempted plutocratic coup against FDR in 1934. According to some accounts, the plan was foiled by General Smedley Butler, who had been approached by Bush and others (?) about U.S. military support for a right wing coup. And Prescott Bush was far right of Eisenhower on most political issues in the 1950s. He was, surely, angry about his protege, Richard Nixon, losing the 1960 election. As for JFK's assassination, we know that Prescott Bush bitterly resented JFK's firing of his friend Allen Dulles after the Bay of Pigs fiasco, and that GHWB and Zapata Offshore were, allegedly, quite actively involved in Operation 40. Based on this circumstantial evidence, I find it hard to believe that GHWB was NOT involved on some level in the plot to assassinate JFK-- especially in light of the fact that he was briefed by J. Edgar Hoover on 11/29/63 as a representative of the CIA. As for the veiled "misanthropic libertarian" legacy of the affable George W. Bush, in particular, how can we ever forget his cynical comment at that fund raiser in 2000 where he joked, "You are the haves and the have mores. I call you my base?"

Well, I doubt that his memory concerning his whereabouts on 11/22/63 has improved in his senescence. In fact, even in his younger years, he didn't recall meeting with J. Edgar Hoover on 11/29/63, did he? 🙄

A CIA agent, Denis? Like "Mr. George Bush of the CIA," the guy who was briefed, in person, by J. Edgar Hoover on 11/29/63 about the FBI's non-investigation of JFK's murder? GHWB must have been a CIA man of some importance in 1963 if he met in person with the FBI Director on behalf of the agency on 11/29/63, eh? Why do you find that so amusing? As for his whereabouts on 11/22/63, we know that GHWB was scheduled to speak at the Dallas Sheraton on 11/21/63, but I have yet to see any definitive proof that he was in Tyler, Texas on 11/22/63. And why did he and Barbara allegedly fly from Tyler to Fort Worth, then to Love Field, then to Houston on the afternoon of 11/22/63? Why the strange, circuitous route home?

Denis, You just bypassed my question. Do you know of any contemporaneous public documentation about GHWB's 11/22/63 public appearance in Tyler?

Denis, Do you have any dated newspaper clippings or contemporaneous documentation about George H.W. Bush speaking in Tyler, Texas on 11/22/63? I still find it hard to believe that GHWB, on record, had no memory of where he was when he first learned that JFK had been assassinated. Surely, he would have remembered, in the first place, that he was giving a speech at a Kiwanis Club meeting in Tyler, Texas-- wouldn't he? I still remember EXACTLY where I was when I heard that President Kennedy had been shot. (I was a 6 year old boy in Denver, trying to raise the flag in front of my elementary school, after some joker had lowered it halfway down the flagpole, before our school principal walked outside and told me to leave it where it was.)

Thanks for the reference. I had not read this eye-opening review before. Obviously, there are some significant problems with the sources and claims in major portions of Family of Secrets. I thought Baker had gone into greater detail about GHWB's involvement with Allen Dulles, Drexel, Inc., and (later) BCCI, but I read the book several years ago, and don't remember. With regard to 11/22/63, are there reliable witness reports from the Kiwanis Club Blackstone Hotel luncheon in Tyler, Texas? (I have not read the Kitty Kelly book that is, apparently, the source of the story by the Kiwanis V.P. in Tyler.)