Stephanie Goldberg

I can't really imagine anyone pulling off a good Cronkite for anyone who saw him on television.  If you've only seen clips of Walter, maybe, but he was such a fixture for so many Americans - it's hard to imagine any actor doing a good job of pulling off his likeness.

4 hours ago, Anthony Thorne said:

Thanks, but I’m in Melbourne.

I'm in the US, and I do not understand how to access the book online via archives, either. I did a quick search and nothing resembling that appeared.

There's one report done on 11/23/63, although I do not understand the THROUGH Lt Jack Revill part of the heading.

11 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Michael,

It's been awhile since I looked at Kilgallen, but my hazy memory is that her meeting with Ruby was only a few minutes long. So, what could he have said - that he murdered "Oswald" on (????)'s orders, I suppose. But whoever gave Ruby the order to shoot "Oswald" was surely a cut-out, several layers removed from the ultimate sponsors of the JFK assassination. I find it hard to believe that Ruby knew exactly on whose behalf he was acting that Sunday morning in Dallas. 

This is not to suggest that Kilgallen was not murdered - I think there is a good chance she was. Merely that whatever tidbits Ruby may dangled in front of her, it surely could not have been the whole story. There was no way that Jack Ruby knew the whole story of the assassination.

From what I remember reading about the Kilgallen interview with Jack Ruby, it was private which probably scared the heck out of certain people.  (I don't think I've ever read how his visitors in jail were vetted, but I'm betting she wouldn't have been allowed to have a private conversation with him there.)  He wouldn't have had to tell her the whole story from start to finish.  All he would have had to know was one piece of vital information which could open avenues of research.  Combine that with the research Ms. Kilgallen was supposed to have already done on the JFK assassination, and she could have had a very important key to the truth in her possession with her notes and manuscript.

14 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

Why would you say that? I'm genuinely curious. In my opinion, circumstances would seem to indicate that he would be an ideal candidate.

Michael Paine was a known quantity in Dallas.  He had a job and coworkers and a schedule.  He had a family.  He probably had friends who could blow his cover if he were in the wrong place at the wrong time and saw one of them.  While his job may have afforded him some flexibility to come and go as he pleased, his Dallas times would have made it difficult for him to be relied upon to impersonate LHO at specific times/places if there was a master schedule for those events.

15 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Hi Stephanie, I think that what I realized from this is that we can kick around theories all day, read great stuff that has been around for a while or stare at photos until we see something; but, there is a lot of work to be done, discoveries to be made by doing that work and an urgency to get it done. It’s going to be hard to motivate research by the coming generation, having been twice removed from living through it.

Agreed.  It's too bad that I don't live near any of these places to help with scanning/transcribing/getting things online.  That would be a very worthwhile endeavor.

I very much enjoyed the first part of the article where Dr. Miller discussed his own relationships with two of the doctors who were involved the day that JFK died.  I always have wondered what people who were there that day thought and said when they were alone with their friends.

On 7/22/2019 at 11:20 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Kind of like Fritz's notes...

There is a resemblance between Michael and Lee.  But I have a tough time seeing Paine as a impersonator of LHO.  Between his blue blood east coast establishment lineage from the Cabot's and Forbe's and trust fund to his day job at stepdad's company Bell Helicopter and security clearance for it I'd think he was a level above such.  Maybe more of a facilitator. taking him to an ACLU meeting, helping set up Marina with Ruth, all the time not knowing why...

Hence the call, "We both know who..." 

I don't even know enough yet about Michael Paine to offer any real opinion.  Just from the little that I have surmised from reading bits of his WC testimony and seeing how he interacted with LHO and Ruth Paine, I'd say that Michael wouldn't be a first-choice candidate to impersonate LHO.  Did Marnia or Ruth Paine ever make any remarks about a resemblance between the two men?

On 7/23/2019 at 7:00 AM, Denny Zartman said:

Thanks for the tip, buying it now.

Denny - it's an interesting book. The whole Washington angle does raise a ton of questions, but when I finished reading the book I wasn't sure that it had completely made its point about LHO's whereabouts.  

I had not seen that article, Michael.  Thanks for thinking of me!  This topic has been on my mind the last few weeks.

This says so much about what is currently frustrating (to me, at least) about trying to delve into research.  The facts are scattered about and remind me of that scene from the Wizard of Oz where the Scarecrow is torn to pieces.  (My legs are over there.  My chest is over here.) 

It's a good piece which says a lot, not just about the state of research but also the people working to put the pieces together.

17 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

I don’t believe the interview was shared in a comprehensive manner. In fact, I had the impression that the interview was not recorded in any manner at all.

That's a shame.  Any interview of that type should be fully recorded (audio & video) if the interviewee consents.  Otherwise it's just a conversation.  

Ron - Thanks for the link!  I've seen shorter interviews with her, but that's the longest piece where I've seen/heard her speaking.  It was a very interesting presentation which raised more questions than it answered in some respects.

I also found it interesting during the above speech in the above video clip where Mrs. Paine said that when people called her, she would ask them for their opinion of the Walker shooting.  If they didn't know anything about it, she'd tell them to do so more reading and then call back.   

Michael - It wouldn't be that difficult to read all of her testimony before the Warren Commission, the HSCA & the Garrison trial.  Wouldn't it be fascinating to speak with her in person?  Do we know what this forum member asked when they interviewed Mrs. Paine?  

Given the fact that the Paines are still a huge ??? in the research, I don't discount anything about Michael Paine at this point.

I wonder how difficult it would be to obtain an interview with Ruth Paine?  She's still alive, yes?

3 hours ago, John Kozlowski said:

There’s a Docudrama on Netflix titled Wormwood about Frank Olson. The episodes mix in interviews with his son and his quest to figure out what really happened to his father. I thought it was pretty good and binge watched it one weekend. I recommend it if your reading about Olson

I just watched the first episode!  While I know that all of this happened to real people, it's fascinating and humbling to be able to see this and connect it with the people whose story I am reading.  Thanks for the recommendation!! 

I just now realized who this is as I was reading his book about Frank Olson.  What a terrible loss!  He was clearly a good writer with a penchant for doing research.  

5 hours ago, S.T. Patrick said:

The standard paperback version of garrison is 8.5 x 11. The font is 11pt Cheltenham. I am surprised that the font looks as large as it does, to be honest. I almost used 12, which would have been way too large. I could actually go down to 10 and it would look normal, but I won't as I've had a few comments from readers saying they appreciate the readable font size. This is definitely not small print, and I think you could read it without straining. Thank you for the question. 

I appreciate the 11 pt font.  I generally use 13 pt when I'm doing a document on my computer.  While I would never say never, I do appreciate a font that is easier to read when it's late at night and my eyes are tired.

Can't wait to see my copy!! 

22 minutes ago, Denis Morissette said:

Stephanie, how about the possibility the real target was Whaley? Is it possible that they wanted to delete Whaley?

I always assumed that if there was anything fishy with this accident that Whaley must be the target.   I'm just curious - since his death is almost always mentioned in the 'suspicious deaths' listings related to the JFK case - what circumstances made his death suspicious.  I agree that the timing is suspect, but I'm just curious to see if there's more than what I've read to date.

I have multiple newspaper articles and the death certificates for both Whaley and John Henry Wells (the other man killed in the accident.)  I'm sending off for the accident report this weekend from the Dallas County Sheriff's office.  (The sheriff's office only accept money orders if you make the request by mail.  I had no idea that anyone still used money orders.)

It would be interesting to obtain a copy of Whaley's log book page for that day, but I doubt that still exists.

All of this may just go to prove that William Whaley's death was exactly what it appears to be - a very tragic accident.  But I figured I'd see if I could collect all the available information and then decide for myself if his death goes in the suspicious or ordinary category.

3 minutes ago, John Kozlowski said:

If you use chrome you can change your search browser under settings instead of using another app or downloading the DuckDuckGo browser. I still use google a lot but for stuff like this I use the other. You’d be surprised what they censor when you start getting into some deeper subjects

I did not realize you could switch search engines so easily in the settings.  Good to know.  Thanks again!!  🙂

Thank you for posting this!  Ordered my copy.  🙂

2 minutes ago, John Kozlowski said:

Here you go. After the summary on each person it tells you where you can get copies of the police and/or death records.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/crs.htm

Thanks, John!  And I'll definitely give the other search engine a go next time!! Google has some weird results at times. 

25 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

I've wondered myself for years if his death was accidental.  Never read about the other older guy (81?) being drunk.  Whaley being the guy who transported Oswald after the assassination who himself died in the first fatality  accident of a Dallas cab driver ever is naturally suspicious, imo.   Considering whatever the DPD gave the press is what they reported.  And several among the DPD are suspect in the first place.  

The initial news reports from that day varied from the Dallas Morning News (12/19/65) which said that the car driven by Wells (the older gentleman) "apparently crossed the center stripe."  It also mentions a drizzling rain falling at the time.

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram (12/19/65) says that "...a second man, John Henry Wells, 83, of Dallas, also died and an autopsy was ordered to determine whether he died from injuries or from a heart attack."  

The Corpus Christi Caller-Times (12/19/65) mentions a thick fog on the viaduct where the collision happened and says "Investigators said Wells may have suffered a heart attack, and an autopsy was ordered.  He was alone in his car."

I cannot find any news report online that reports the results of the autopsy, but according to Wells' death certificate there was no autopsy performed.   So I'm curious to see what the police report might say if it still exists.

6 minutes ago, John Kozlowski said:

Ill find the  link for you just give me a min.  I assume your using google to search. If so try DuckDuckGo and you’ll have better results

Thank you!  And, yes, I use Google.  I'm not familiar with DuckDuckGo, but I love the name!  I'm surely willing to give it a go.

On 7/16/2019 at 8:27 AM, John Kozlowski said:

The site I came across dealt with the mysterious deaths of witnesses and gave the address of either the DPD or Sheriff for those looking into getting a copy of records. It had the sheriffs address under Whaley’s name.

John - Apparently your search engine results are doing better than mine.  I can't locate a site which gives that info.  Would you mind sharing the link for that site?

Oh, I agree that it totally looks like an accident, unlike some other deaths of that era.  That's why I never understood why this one was listed as a 'suspicious death' unless somebody knew far more than what I've read to date.  You can't blame Whaley for his death.  I don't think you can blame the old guy, unless he really was intoxicated as one article stated.  That just left the naval officer.  Since he nearly died in the crash as well, I think we can remove him from the list of suspects.

Now that I've started looking at it, though, I figured I'd finish crossing all the dots.  There are a couple of very minor inconsistencies that I feel are probably typos and/or clerical errors.   (Or I'm just not reading something thoroughly.)   I'd really love to see the accident report to see if it explains one of the question marks, so I'll see if it's still available.

Oh, that's cool!  I have one of his books, but I'd never seen/heard him until now.   

Maurice R Barnes, Jr's obituary in the Salt Lake Tribune (UT) on Oct 28, 2014 said:

"...he was a Navy jet fighter pilot with Fighter Squadron 11 flying the F8 'Crusader' off the carrier USS Roosevelt."  He also "...served a number of years as an attorney in the Aviation Litigation Section of the Civil Division of the U.S. Department of Justice."

His father, Barnes, Sr., practiced radio and television law in Washington where he also worked for the Treasury Department and the FCC per his obituary in the Washington Post, July 7, 1983.

The family appear to have been devout Mormons.