John Kowalski
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Posts posted by John Kowalski
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1 hour ago, John Butler said:
John K,
Tracy Parnell has firm views of the Kennedy Assassination. I believe he is wrong. But, there is no use to have a conversation, because it would be a waste of time. I have firm views also and it takes more than someone saying it ain't so to change my mind.
That's why Jim Hargrove set up this thread. Show proof rather than just say it isn't so.
What I am doing here is investigating a possibility that I am not 100 % sure I can support. There is a great deal of evidence circulating around the notion that John Gardos might be Harvey Oswald. At this point, there is no direct evidence directly supporting the idea. All there is at this point is speculations, loose connections, and what might amount to circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence is defined as:
"Definition of circumstantial evidence. : evidence that tends to prove a fact by proving other events or circumstances which afford a basis for a reasonable inference of the occurrence of the fact at issue."
I think a case can be made for circumstantial evidence. I believe I am making a reasonable inference. But, that would have to be agreed on by others due to my lack of confidence that I would be right saying circumstantial evidence exists. That's the way a jury works. Circumstantial evidence is verified by a jury.
What is needed is direct evidence something like the tooth evidence which unquestionably shows a clear difference between Harvey and Lee after the 1981 exhumation of Harvey Oswald. Their dental records and historical record provides the basis for a Harvey and Lee. John Armstrong has assembled a huge mass of data for the idea.
But, in reality you need only one to prove the idea. The tooth evidence is one good example. John Armstrong has assembled many, many pieces of evidence of a direct nature.
John B:
Agree with you about Tracy. His view about the assassination and H&L are set and will not be changed. My view about the assassination too are set. There is too much evidence in support of them and this is why I resist debating those individuals who claim that Oswald was the lone gunman. To have a debate with someone about any issue you must be be prepared to hear the other persons arguments. If you have made up your mind about an issue then you are wasting your time getting into a debate because your mind will not be changed.
Circumstantial evidence is important when it comes to proving a case, especially when the case is homicide. Courts use it as a basis for convicting people of crimes. The use of this evidence is necessary, otherwise how would you convict anybody of anything? How many murders are committed with witnesses present? Without a witness, circumstantial evidence is required. The planners of JFK's murder surely did not keep notes with names of everyone involved, and the 2 Oswald project planners no doubt destroyed any written evidence about it.
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On 12/1/2019 at 10:34 AM, Jim Hargrove said:
Now that the break between holidays is giving us a little free time again, I was just wondering if we had done everything possible to eliminate John Gardos, son of the Communist activists Emil and Grace Gardos, as a candidate for the Russian-speaking “Oswald.”
Jim:
There is more to this story than eliminating John Gardos as being Harvey. Even if he is not Harvey, we are still left with a question, why did this woman make this call? Why would she say that Harvey's father and uncle were Hungarian and communist? Was she lying, was she creating false leads to distract investigators or did she really believe what she was saying? If Marguerite had been identified in the media as Harvey's mother, and this woman was aware of her, then she would, assuming that she was not a disinformation agent, be the first person to raise the possibility of 2 Oswalds.
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17 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:
Not sure how the exhumation proves two Oswalds or how the exhumation is "before H&L" , but if you don't want to argue the point that is ok by me. By sandbox I meant an arena (to use your term) for unrestricted speculation. Nothing in my post is against forum rules. You guys have gone on for page after page with pure speculation and you shouldn't be surprised if someone eventually jumps in. OK, I'll butt out now.
Tracey:
What do you hope to gain by posting on this forum? After posting 1470 posts, do you believe that you have accomplished something?
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21 hours ago, John Butler said:
John K,
What if DNA testing is done and it comes up that the Oswald children are cousins? I was in Korea a long time ago. Recently, I've started watching Korean TV dramas on Netflix. In these crime dramas they do a lot of DNA testing. Invariably, the villains steal the data, forge the data, or force the lab people to forge the data. Eventually, in these dramas that gets straighten out, but not always.
If an outcome becomes positive for relationship, how would we know if it is true?
John B:
John Armstrong also has the same concern as you about the tests not been falsified. I too would be concerned about the fairness of the tests and this is something that would have to be addressed prior to doing them.
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21 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:
John,
To me, a much more interesting and simple DNA test would prove devastating to the conventional narrative: compare the DNA from either June or Rachel Oswald ("Oswald's" biological children) with DNA from any of Robert Oswald's biological children (his daughter Cathy or his son, Robert Jr.)
According to the implied mainstream narrative, Robert Oswald and our "Oswald" were biological brothers and therefore, their children ought to be first cousins. If Robert and "Oswald" were not biological brothers (as we all suspect), then their children will not be related.
A simple DNA test may yet completely unravel the cover-up.
(John Armstrong first proposed this in a phone conversation with me many years ago.)
Paul:
I agree, that test would confirm whether or not they are biologically related. Did John ever speak to Oswald's kids about this?
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Has anyone found any immigration documents showing them leaving the country or being resident in Hungary or any other country?
Jim: can John contact Marina about DNA testing? If she could arrange for one of her kids to do a DNA test with a company like 23 and me or ancestry or both, it might provide some leads about relatives. If the test shows that they have a relative in their database, they can arrange for them to contact each other. A previously unknown relative who has donated their DNA to a database will be interested in genealogy and will have family information. These companies also provide info about your ethnicity. Given that Marina is East European and Harvey is supposed to be East European, the test should reflect this.
I did my own family genealogy and for the past 200 years and confirmed that they were all in Poland and this was reflected in 2 tests; one I did with National Geographic genome which showed a high level of East European ancestry and another test done by a family member with another company that also showed a high level of East European ancestry.
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On 11/24/2019 at 5:19 PM, Anthony Thorne said:
Just guessing that Stone's bigger goal is to avoid the division that typically wastes so much energy among researchers. If a blurb from him appears on the back of Trine Day's next Baker book (they haven't announced one but I'm sure she'll do another one) then I'll start shaking my head. But keeping good relations with Baker means he can communicate to everyone watching or attending her conference. And it's good he's back pushing the subject again so I don't want to knock.
I read JVB's first book and thought that it was ridiculous. But just as ridiculous was the big battle at DPF over her book. Over 500 posts. Some posters stopped posting on this thread out of frustration. There is too much division among researchers over issues and perhaps Oliver Stone is trying to not involve himself in these fights and focus on unity instead. He also had good things to say about Michelle Metta's work on CMC. My book review about his work was mixed but I would not begrudge him for supporting his work because we need more research and less in-fighting.
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1 minute ago, David Josephs said:
Korth was Sec of the Navy.... one might think he'd be aware of ONI activity related to Oswald given how much he was involved with the Ekdahls and Oswalds...
"Played a part in LEE's Life"....
Maybe I'm just reaching....
David:
Did not know that Fred Korth was Secretary of the Navy. Having the secretary of the Navy involved in Harvey's life is very suspicious and more research may provide more evidence about the Oswald project.
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On 11/26/2019 at 5:32 PM, Paul Jolliffe said:
David,
Absolutely right. That further proves my earlier point that Edwin Ekdahl worked, moved and lived in powerful circles, not only in Texas, but in NYC and Boston. Ekdahl was undoubtedly the key link between Marguerite Oswald's youngest son, Lee, and the east coast establishment spooks who made use of Lee's coincidental resemblance to a recently arrived refugee with some language skills.
The internet did not exist then, so the only way for U.S. intelligence to spot potential doppelgangers was to actually put eyes on boys who (somewhat) resembled each other.
Ekdahl would seem to be the only person in a position to notice the resemblance between Lee and "Oswald."
The FBI interviewed Ekdahl's son Dewey. He said that he did not know his father's address for the years 1945 - 1948. Ekdahl married Marguerite in 1945 and if sometime after his marriage the operation began, then this may account for his son not knowing his father's address.
https://ia601400.us.archive.org/16/items/ekdahldeweylho/Ekdahl - Dewey - LHO.pdf
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17 hours ago, David Josephs said:
Fred KORTH was the lawyer for the plaintiff in the Ekdahl divorce...
That close enough to the ONI for ya?
David:
Fred Korth was ONI, what proof do you have?
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18 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:
John,
While it is barely possible, I suppose, that little John Gardos grew up to be our "Oswald", I find that extremely unlikely. Simply put, his parents were both living in 1963, yet if John Gardos were posing as "Oswald", that means this little boy had been abandoned by his birth parents at the age of (6? 8? 10? 14?)!!!
Grace Blair Gardos was the mother of John Gardos (as far as we know.) As a parent, I can't conceive of a mother abandoning her child to the custody of strangers in a strange city (NYC) to be raised for some undefined political purpose. If the suggestion is that, well the parents (or at least Emil Gardos, the father) did it out of political expediency or to save his own skin, well again: it just doesn't ring true with what I've seen of the parent/child bond, especially when the kids are little.
I realize that none of my feelings about this are evidence, but still: any theory that little John Gardos grew up to be our "Oswald" must somehow account for the stunning abandonment by his own living birth parents, especially his own mother.
Paul:
More research needs to be done on John Gardos. If he was Harvey, then there should be no evidence that he was alive after Harvey's murder by Jack Ruby on November 24 1963.
Louis Weinstock had a son born in 1929, which makes him 10 years older than Harvey and an unlikely candidate. But Weinstock's obituary states that he is survived by his 2 children, therefore his son can be ruled out as being Harvey.
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Paul:
I share your suspicions about Eckdahl but do not have proof. During WWI he was with the navy reserves. He was stationed at an experimental station in Connecticut and also worked with submarines. Perhaps this work could have brought him into contact with the ONI. In 1919 he went to Shanghai to work for a private company. Shanghai at that time was known as the "International Settlement" which was controlled by various European countries and the US. John Armstrong has not found any connections between Eckdahl and the ONI but I am speculating here, maybe he was reporting back to them about things he saw while there, just like Shaw did as a domestic contact for the CIA.
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Has anyone done any research on Harvey's mother and how they were paired together?
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On 11/25/2019 at 3:59 PM, Jim Hargrove said:
According to the 3/7/1936 Milwaukee Sentinel, Emil Gardos was born in Romania.
Wikipedia indicates that there is a relatively small ethnic sect in the Danube delta area of Romania, called the Lipovans, who speak Russian as their primary language. This is undoubtedly a long shot, but is it possible that the Gardos spoke Russian?
Louis Weinstock's wife was born in Negresti Roumania and lived in Larospratak Hungary before emigrating to the US. While there son was not Harvey, it's clear that their common Austrian Hungarian empire heritage could serve as a catalyst to bring them into contact with people of a similar background in New York city.
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Does anyone want to speculate about why she made the call, was it to reinforce the idea that Oswald was communist by leaking this information to the Tippits?
Could this woman have known about the short fat Marguerite Oswald? If this woman was reading the papers everyday to obtain updates on JFK's assassination, Marguerite must have been mentioned in the 8 days that elapsed from November 22 to November 30, the date of the FBI report. If she had read in the papers about Marguerite and believed that Oswald's relatives were Hungarian communists did she know or suspect something about the Oswald doppelganger project?
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Have read the story about the telephone call. Did some research on Weinstock and his obituary is below. Obituary says he was a communist but then again many members of the communist party were working for the FBI.
https://archive.org/details/louisweinstockobituary
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Paul:
Marguerite is very well spoken and yes, Stafford may have been hinting about something that she would not write about in her book.
John mentioned a trip that Marguerite, Edwin and Lee took to Boston in September 1945. Probably no shortage of places in or near Boston where Lee could have been introduced to experiments or an espionage program.
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Jim:
Have you or John researched Harvey's mother's origin? He referred to Judge Tunheim and an AARB document that stated that an M.Oswald was somehow connected to Nazis in New Jersey in 1941. Not sure if she was spying on them but if she was this would be evidence that she was connected to intelligence services. Contacted Tunheim's office about his AARB documents and they confirmed that he has submitted everything to NARA.
Jean Stafford's stated in her book A Mother in History that Marguerite Oswald's accent was from New York or New Jersey. She also stated that she thought that Marguerite may have taken elocution lessons. If she did take them to improve how she spoke, then why would she do this? Could she have emigrated from Europe and was attempting to change her accent to an American one?
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Yes there are many references to children and experiments, now we have to find one that involved Lee and Harvey Oswald.
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Jim:
I hope that this info may be of help in the search for Harvey's origin.
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6 minutes ago, Kirk Ross said:
You are not the first to speculate on the possible connection between Oswald and Estabrooks. H. P. Albarelli, Jr speculates without much/any proof about a connection between them in "A Secret Order". Estabrooks is in the index along with other characters well known in this context.
Abirelli's book also mentions that Lawrence Kubie and George Hunter White doing experiments at New Jersey's Bordertown Youth Reformatory but does not provide a source. Am sure that there is more documentation available on experiments on children at orphanages after WWII. In it, there may be some clues about Armstrong's theories.
Do you agree with Armstrong's speculation regarding Harvey's origins?
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14 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:
Megathanks for this, John. Subproject 103 is completely new to me, although most of us are surely familiar with the general outlines of the Agency’s infamous MK-ULTRA project. The information in the paragraph you quoted is enough to provoke much more searching and researching. I’ll be spending some more time with this over the next few months. If you have any more information on Subproject 103, please post it if you can. Does Mr. Ross’s book have any other information on experiments with children?
Thanks again!
I neglected, by the way, in my previous post to provide a link to the current write-up describing Harvey Oswald and Lee Oswald during three consecutive semesters in middle schools. The evidence strikes me as simply overwhelming. It’s still a work in progress, but it can be read here:
Jim you’re very welcome.
Here is another quoted form the same book. It demonstrates that experiments were been conducted on children in the 1930s by G.H. Estabrooks. If Estabrooks or other researchers were still conducting experiments on children in orphanages after the war ended, and if Harvey was placed in one after WWII, then it is possible that one of these experiments could have been, as John Armstrong suggests, the Oswald project.
Pg. 163: “Dr. Estabrooks did experiments on children. These were conducted at Rome State School in Rome, New York, with the approval of the Superintendent in a letter dated December 19, 1935. Estabrooks also did experiments on children at St. John’s Orphan Asylum and the House of the Good Shepherd, run by the Utica Community Chest, in Utica, New York. The Director of the Utica Community Chest, A.J. Derbyshire told Dr (sic) Estabrooks in a letter dated December 7, 1935 that he could supply fifty children age 9 to 12. This was to be facilitated by a Sister Callista.”
John
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In the late 1950s the CIA conducted experiments on children. One of them had the aim of recruiting them as agents or assets in the future. While these experiments were too late for Oswald, who was by then in the Soviet Union, could there have been other experiments earlier on, where young teenage boys were recruited by the Agency with the aim of merging their identities at a later date and sending one of them to the USSR as a spy.
The excerpt below, which describes one of these experiments, is from The C.I.A. Doctors Human Rights Violations by American Doctors by Colin A. Ross M.D.. On pages 62-63 Ross writes about MK-Ultra Subproject 103:
"Subproject 103 was conducted by Robert Cormack and A.B. Kristofferson at the Children's International Summer Villages Inc., in Maine. The subjects were 16 to 21 years of age and were there for a reunion; all had attended the camp in previous years as 11 year olds. The academic purpose of the project was to study how children communicate when they do not share a common language. The CIA was interested in the project as cover for establishing relationships with children from a variety of countries. Obviously, the intent was to recruit them as agents or assets. A MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD from the Subproject 103 documents dated 10 December 1959 states that: It is felt that this project will support the [whited out] need for cover. In addition it will assist in the identification of promising young foreign nationals and U.S. nationals (many of whom are now in their late teens) who may at anytime be of direct interest to the Agency...No cleared or witting persons are concerned with the conduct of this project."
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Jim:
This is fantastic news!! Am looking forward to seeing it and thank your all of the work you have done.
EVIDENCE FOR HARVEY AND LEE (Please debate the specifics right here. Don't just claim someone else has debunked it!)
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
You make some good points here about
Being an informant could explain why the FBI covered it up. Another possible reason is the 2 Oswald project. If Harvey was John Cardos and his parents were real communists and not informants, the FBI would have revealed this information to the public because it would support their case that Harvey was a communist. But they could not do that because Marguerite was now his mother and that would create a problem.