Michaleen Kilroy
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Posts posted by Michaleen Kilroy
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14 hours ago, Ron Ege said:
My guess is that we'll merely see that intelligence agencies like the CIA are obsessive about protecting information we mortals can't understand why they thought it was important to protect at all.
Quite the ‘guess’ by Lance.Like the files of the DRE case officer in the time of LHO who committed a felony hiding his material background to the HSCA?
Was Lance transported from 1964? Can’t explain the blind faith in the intel agencies otherwise.
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16 hours ago, Lance Payette said:
Unfortunately for you, I know what I'm talking about and know people who know what they're talking about:
ok now you’ve lost any credibility with me.
Bill Harvey, head of executive action for the CIA, was besties with Johnny Roselli, future mobster in a can. The FBI was conducting surveillance on Roselli in summer ‘63 and was shocked to hear Harvey in his presence. They got to Angleton for an answer and he told them to let it be.
Yeah, only the best operatives for the agency. Whatta crock.
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15 hours ago, Lance Payette said:
Again, we have the "Geniuses at step 1, idiots at step 2" scenario so common in Conspiracy World.
At least as common in LN world.
LHO the cold-blooded psychopathic/commie killer who perfectly plans the assassination of a president but somehow doesn’t have a clue how to exit the area shortly after.
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Just now, Lance Payette said:
Oswald did things and took risks that would have been utterly unthinkable for a false defector or CIA operative.
That old canard. I saw a documentary that showed who the CIA was willing to work with in Afghanistan and Iraq. They will use ANYONE they can manipulate and that serves their purpose. The end always justifies the means.
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3 hours ago, Lance Payette said:
If you accept the Walker attempt as legitimate, this might tell us quite a bit about his psyche and how little in the way of motive it took for him to attempt something like this, Walker being the polar opposite of JFK.
Can’t recall who made the case but I’ve seen a very solid argument that after GdM ascertained that LHO took at shot at Walker he let his intel contacts know in DC before he departed the US.
Then CIA moves in and gives LHO an ultimatum - do what we ask or we turn you in.
Not saying I buy the story but it’s plausible and would go a long way in explaining LHO’s behavior after and his ability to be framed.
Going back to my ongoing point, a lot of speculation is possible in JFKA because it was obviously never honestly or thoroughly investigated. That is the fault of the USG not researchers. And the best of the researchers have uncovered a lot and those of us paying attention know that conspiracy has been proven. We just don’t have the deets due to the ongoing coverup.
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There is now a definition of what for me mostly drove the JFKA cover up by top leaders in the USG and mass media that continues to the present day:
FOFO (Fear of Finding Out) explains why organisations, governments and leaders maybe reluctant to establish what is actually occurring, or has historically occurred.
Borrowed from medical psychology to explain the barriers that prevent someone seeking a diagnosis for a suspected illness, the term has increasingly been used in an organisational context.
FOFO has been used to explain why officials (government, regulatory, etc,.) may be reluctant to investigate an issue because it may reveal potential failures and lapses on their part. It has been used to explain why government agencies were reluctant to investigate or hold inquires for medical errors, illegal environmental practices, safety incidents and policy failures.
From this global health leader:
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2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:
But it is not who fired the gun, but who paid for the bullets
This statement reminded me of this less-known story about the origin of the bullets:
Key excerpt:
Perplexing Piece of Evidence
Agents initially were perplexed by a piece. of evidence they found. The bullets were 6.5‐millimeter Mannlicher‐Carcano ammunition. Agents determined that the manufacturer was the Western Cartridge Corporation of East Alton, Ill.
Agents in Illinois examined the company's production records and found that the concern had produced four million rounds of this type of ammunition for the U.S. Marine Corps in 1954.
The interesting thing about this order is that it is for ammtmion which does not fit and cannot be fired in any of the. USMC weapons,’ said an F.B.I. memorandum dated Dec. 2, 1963.
“This gives rise to the obvious speculation that it is a contract for ammunition placed by C.I.A. with Western under a USMC cover for concealment purposes.”
in other words, bureau officials speculated that the Central Intelligence Agency .11,d used the Marine Corps as a cover to purchase ammunition in secret.
End of excerpt
The story goes on to say that half the four million bullets were purchased by a company for commercial sale in 1962. That means to me that there’s a 50% chance the bullets allegedly used by LHO in the assassination were quite possibly directly from the CIA’s secret stockpile.
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3 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:
The popular explanation that we are seeing the yellowed leaves on a branch of the tree behind the 'smoke' is probably the best answer. Other photos confirm that particular branch had turned yellow.
Fair enough. Seems like most things in the JFKA case - impossible to pin down for certain and forever.
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The railroad men’s stories refute any of the above for me. And the fact the WC/FBI ignored them and/or revised their accounts is all I need to know what the USG was capable of in covering up the facts in this case.
And a news photographer caught the smoke on film so many of the railroad men had mentioned.
Game, set, match on this evidence alone confirming conspiracy.
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On 1/16/2023 at 5:10 PM, Gerry Down said:
Does anyone have a list of witnesses who described a "bang.........bang, bang" sequence? (i.e. with the last two bunched so close together it would have been impossible to pull off using a bolt action rifle). I've studied Tink Thompsons list at the end of his book "Six Seconds In Dallas" but i've found his analysis of what the witnesses said at odds with my own interpretation of what the witnesses said based on their statements as contained in the WCR and its 26 volumes.
Ones that come to mind include Lee Bowers, George Hickey Linda Willis. However does anyone have a list already made out of these witnesses who bunch the last two shots together?
Heard Buell Frazier and Mary Moorman affirm this sequence in person at JFK conference. Robert MacNeil as we’ve seen. That’s enough for me - covers people of different vantage points with no aligned agendas.
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15 hours ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:
One of the railway guys on the triple underpass said that there was no smoke near the fence -- NO SMOKE trumps SMOKE -- its simple logic.
Guess you didn’t watch the video to the end. There’s film of the smoke. And the rail yard ‘smoke’ witnesses outnumber whatever supposed witness your claiming to exist by a lot.
And calling these guys ‘wild-eyed’ is insulting and completely inaccurate. They are obviously the opposite of that. Salt of the earth guys to me.
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All damning evidence that the official story is a crock of shyte. The last gentleman appears to have actually seen the grassy knoll shooter getting away, running from the knoll to behind the TSBD.
WTFH.
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50 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:
Well...I rather suspect this post-JFKA CIA investigation, run by CIA Miami station chief Ted Shackley, into Miami officers and assets was not to uncover leads, but rather to suffocate any leads in the crib....
Can anyone imagine Shackley saying, "I am saddened to report that our investigation has uncovered that assets of the CIA, and an officer, were instrumental in the JFKA."?
Trusting any agency to investigate itself...well, call me skeptical.
Good point. And no one has ever seen the report so that proves you’re right.
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5 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2022/104-10103-10024.pdf
So, this is a memo that evidently confirms the CIA, especially in the Miami area, spent some time investigating whether someone in the Miami community was behind the JFKA.
Of course, asking the CIA to investigate whether elements within the CIA conducted the JFKA...
Evidently, there 400 officers attached to the Miami CIA station, and 2,000 CIA-Cuban assets in the US at the time of the JFKA. Many were deeply angered by what they perceived as a JFK backstab at the Bay of Pigs, and in relation to Cuba in general....
Those wacky CTers…. Didn’t they know the FBI had this wrapped up the second LHO was dead and the WC would then lend its weighty rubber stamp a year later (with the necessary SBT bolted on).
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The JFKA is about the ‘best’ assassination planners in history with unlimited resources, no oversight and no morals framing one little guy to kill a president they despised.
IMHO.
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2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
Needless to say, Oswald was a twofer--as a fall guy for the Kennedy case and in the destruction of the FPCC. And Mr. Kent, who worked out of JM Wave, later admitted it: "Oswald was a useful idiot."
Incredible summary, Jim. How anyone can look at all that and think ‘lone nut’ has to be a bit of a lone nut themselves
It appears LHO thought he was helping destroy the FPCC but then they used him for JFKA. The proverbial - and monumental - spy left out in the cold.
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13 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:
So, you do think the DPD knew---as of 1:51 PM CST on 11/22/63---about Oswald having lived in Russia from 1959 to 1962? Is that right, Michaleen?
No but LHO was speaking from a broader context for the media. Remember how Fritz felt he had been trained in answering questions under interrogation.
Again, if you don’t buy the official line and follow the evidence since the WC, LHO was an important intel asset used by the CIA, FBI and others. He knew his way around the spooks on all sides - Russia, Cuba and US. He knew propaganda and media.
This is LHO telling the world through the media he was set up without saying more than he needs to or wants to at that time. He would not have been framed without his communist background. So yes, from his perspective, they ARE taking him cuz he lived in Russia. It was the reason he was chosen as the patsy and he knows it. He knew it the minute he had a gun pointed in his direction in the break room.
If you make that interpretation, then you also realize he’s a marked man and the Ruby murder is no surprise.
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1 minute ago, David Von Pein said:
But listen to Oswald's ENTIRE Patsy statement, Michaleen. Who is it that Oswald is saying here is turning him into a patsy? Or don't you think these two sentences, which were uttered one right after the other by LHO, should be connected in any way at all?....
"They've taken me in because of the fact that I lived in the Soviet Union. I'm just a patsy!"
Again it’s all perspective. From mine, he’s exactly right - he WAS taken in because he lived in the Soviet Union. His background is EXACTLY why he was chosen as the patsy.
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20 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:
No, Steve's interpretation is right because it's simply, well, right. Unless you want to now theorize that the DPD, at the precise time of Oswald's arrest at the Texas Theater, did have knowledge of the fact that Oswald lived in Russia.
That’s no argument. It’s just interpretation from the LN POV.
From my POV, the “commie fanatic, and sociopathic loser who just wanted to be somebody” was telling the WORLD he was NOT involved in the shooting but had been framed.
He’s not just saying the DPD has taken him in because he lived in Russia. He’s using the word ‘patsy’ because someone set him up knowing his background. He was tricked by someone. Patsy means conspiracy.
From the preponderance of the evidence that has come out since the WC, that rings true to me.
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Beyond being deliberately ignorant of the evidence since the WC, the LNers also feign naïveté regarding the CIA in the Cold War, how they worked and what they were capable of with little to no accountability to anyone.
Let’s pretend they weren’t masters of deception and trickery even though they had a manual just for that: https://www.amazon.com/Official-CIA-Manual-Trickery-Deception/dp/0061725900/ref=asc_df_0061725900/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241995309321&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7304719295961481994&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1013962&hvtargid=pla-435433932475&psc=1
The original OSS guys - precursor to the CIA - required recruits to study a book called The Big Con: the Story of the Confidence Man to learn the art of deception and misdirection. The movie The Sting was based on it.
Dylan called Dealey ‘the greatest magic trick under the sun” in his rumination on who was behind the assassination in his “Murder Most Foul” song. He was right.
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1 hour ago, Steve Roe said:
No, this is badly misinterpreted. Oswald said they (the Dallas Police) were taking him in because he used to live in the Soviet Union, I'm just a Patsy
So your interpretation is right because it’s yours?
His communist credentials - living in Russia, FPCC — are exactly the reason the American public bought the official story at least for a time. He was the communist fanatic they were always told about who wanted to destroy America come to life.
Scared the hell outta the govt though because of the potential for war and exposing the worst of our global interventions.
From the conspiratorial POV (which btw is shared by 60+% of the country) he was the perfect patsy for the intel people who knew so much about him and wanted Kennedy dead.
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14 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:
See, this is what happens when we have 412 conspiracy theories. In the scenario to which I was responding, innocent young Oswald brought curtain rods and was eating his lunch. His rifle hadn't even been found. There was not yet any known connection to the TSBD. Yet he ran like a rabbit and went home to get his revolver.
Right. I don't think he had much of a "plan" for anything, or he wouldn't have had to run home and get his pistol. I think he was completely astonished at having survived the ecounter with Baker and Truly and finding himself outside the TSBD boarding a bus.
It’s a fact that LHO told the world he was a patsy. That means conspiracy. I didn’t bring it up - he did 60 years ago.
Amazing he can sneak a rifle into his workplace, assemble it, go undetected on a floor with people, have a plan to run down stairs after the shooting and appear calm but no escape plan. Was he clever or dumb? Think he’d have to be pretty clever for all that and unbelievable that a plan of escape wouldn’t follow. And if he thought he needed a pistol for protection, seems like he’d have it with him.
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5 hours ago, Lance Payette said:
- He immediately leaves without asking Shelley or anyone else if the workday is over.
- He forgets the curtain rods that were so vitally important the day before.
- He hops a bus. When someone tells the driver the President has been shot, he exits the bus.
- He boards a taxi but has the driver drop him off some distance from his rooming house.
- He hurriedly enters the rooming house, has no interest in the news of the Presidential assassination on the TV and no response to Mrs. Roberts.
- He grabs his handgun, puts on a jacket, and rushes back out.
Which all makes sense if he’s a patsy.
You think the sole mastermind of the assassination didn’t have a plan to get out?
If he’s a psychopath and didn’t care about dying why didn’t he bring more bullets and just keep shooting all his imagined enemies in the guvmint vulnerable down below?
If he wants to be the political hero for Fidel and go down in history, why not wait for the arrest and start screaming communist tirades?
If he truly cares about getting out, why not have a plan? If he wants to defend himself, why not bring the hand gun in that bag? If he thought he would be a wanted man, why freaking have the damning evidence tying you to the gun on your person?!?
I know. The WC couldn’t pin LHO down and barely tried. That’s because they had to avoid his many connections to US intelligence.
And he was never a lone nut. He had a wife and kids including a newborn. When I met the boarding house family they said he could’ve chose a room in the back but he chose the one closest to people. He also broke up a fight between the families’ two bros saying, you should always love your brother and violence is never the answer.
So there’s all that.
Destroying the WC Lies: Shots From the Front
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Perhaps worse than these critical witnesses being ignored by the WC is the interference of the FBI to hide/revise their stories. Demonstrates a subversion of the investigation and a directed cover-up from the top at the get-go. And of course we see this time and again in the JFKA case with the FBI and other federal agencies supposedly paid to serve the citizenry, justice and the truth.
Seems easy to get away with a conspiracy when the power of the govt is being used to protect the conspirators.