Rick McTague

9 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Lipsey says, after a minute or two of the explaining how the bullet fragments recovered from the President's brain matched the shell casings found on the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building and the doctors agreed that JFK was hit by two bullets from behind that "there is no question Lee Harvey Oswald is the lone assassin."

 

And you can perform this ballistic analysis by observing an autopsy?

Joe,

Excellent summary here.  I want to point out that the utterance by JFK, "My God, I am hit", all by itself, disproves the WC report.  There is no way, after the damage to the throat by the front shot through the windshield (the small round hole of entry noted at Parkland by Dr. Perry), or by the magic bullet from LHO (especially if his throat was in the condition in the "stare of death" photo at Bethesda), that JFK could say anything at all.  My opinion is that he said that after receiving the shallow back wound, and (obviously) before the throat wound.

The record from Mr. Kellerman that you provided, and the documentation from Mr. Palamara regarding the through and through hole in the windshield are two of many pillars in the case for conspiracy.

Thank you.

15 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

Does this guy still not get that he described evidence for conspiracy and cover-up? Nobody broke it to him that a bullet shouldn't have entered the EOP and exited the throat?

Not only that, Micah, but there were no body bags in use at Parkland for JFK.  The nurses and other personnel all describe wrapping JFK up in sheets, with mattress covers to protect the lining of the expensive bronze casket.  I wish the interviewer would have also asked about the vehicle that the coffin was unloaded from, and about the coffin itself.

Thanks

2 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Oh, I see.  G "W" Bush ( Junior ) was at Yale. Not GHWB.

But the most illogical fact remains about George Sr.

His well known public statement that he couldn't remember where he was when he first heard of JFK's assassination.

Preposterous to absurdly unbelievable degree.

E. Howard Hunt also had the weakest alibi in stating where he was on 11/22/1963.

 

Yeah and that weird inappropriate smile he had at Gerald Ford's memorial service ... it reminds me of the inappropriate smile and wink at LBJ right after the swearing in on AF1.

I find it one more interesting fact in the JFKA that no less than 5 presidents were directly involved:

1. JFK
2. LBJ
3. Nixon (in DFW on 11/21 at a bottler's convention, leaving on 11/22)
4. Ford (served on WC)
5. GHW Bush (possibly in Dealey Plaza, claims to have been in Tyler and stayed at the Dallas Sheraton, called FBI with the assassination threat from Parrott)

Nixon and Bush had varying stories / memory lapses in where they say they were when they heard the news.  They must be the only two Americans alive on that date that can't remember where they were when they heard JFK was shot.

Thanks

2 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

There is no accurate to-the-hour record of those phone calls between Humes and Perry. The handwritten notes on the phone call from Humes have 11/23/1963 as the date, but this Humes-Perry phone call could have occurred 12:00 AM ~ 2:45 AM.

 

We know a window of time likely existed after Sibert and O'Neill departed. Since the FBI lab's Robert Frazier wrote in his notes that Sibert and O'Neill delivered the bullet fragments at 1:45 AM, and since 45 minutes is about the bare minimum time to drive from Bethesda Naval Hospital to the FBI lab, Sibert and O'Neill couldn't have left later than 1:00 AM. Since at least his HSCA interview, O'Neill has decided to tell interviewers he saw the cosmetic preparation of Kennedy's body including the dressing and casketing, which is clearly incorrect if they were in a hurry and the casket departed the hospital at around 4:00 AM (so the cosmetic procedures most likely lasted until 3:30 AM - 4:00 AM). Sibert and O'Neill also claim that they presumed the body examination was over when the autopsy surgeons left their gloves on the table and left. Well, if this absence existed, it couldn't have lasted long because we know that Humes came back to handle the body further while assisting the Gawler's funeral team. BTW Tom Robinson, Joe Hagan, and John Van Hoesen of Gawler's funeral home have each stated that they had to wait for some time for the body examination to be completed.

 

One funeral home website I found stated that a body can be embalmed in as little as 45 minutes to an hour. So I don't think there is anything wrong with the body examination lasting until as late as 2:45 like Kellerman's notes specify calling Clint Hill to inspect Kennedy's body (Clint Hill's own notes says this occurred "after the autopsy and prior to the embalming").

Micah,

I'm sorry - I was referring to Parkland's legal notes from the doctors that Dr. Perry referred to here:  "PERRY: Yeah. You know, we -- yeah, that's a good question, too, Mark, because we all sat down afterwards and wrote out in our own -- as L'il Abner would say, hand written -- notes our recollection of what happened down there, knowing that we'd get a little fuzzy about it. And I think they got copies of those; I'm not sure of that, though. Those copies were available, because we made them available to the investigating committees, and know our inspector and all the guys around here. We all wrote down some of them and they were available for everybody. I think several of the people from various investigating agencies looked at 'em. They made a bunch of copies and they should be widely circulated. Interestingly enough is the discrepancy between what people remember -- it's kinda like the blind men and the elephant -- that's what they remember. Dr. McClelland's and some of the others are quite different from some of ours which I thought...

FLANAGAN: Is this normal procedure -- that Parkland Hospital would follow writing down...

PERRY: No. Normally, what we do -- well, normally, yes; but normally just one of us. Normally, the guy -- myself, for example, since I ostensibly was responsible for the surgery and the rest of it, normally the guy who's attending and who's doing the job writes a summary about it afterwards for the record. The reason all of us did was we thought it might be important -- more than the usual -- to have a good record. I'm not sure it served its purpose. I haven't read everybody's, but I've read some of them and I found they didn't correspond with what I remembered."

Has anyone dug into those? Are they available anywhere?

Thanks

Stunning news at 27:45 or so into this - they offered the directorship of the 6th Floor Museum to Groden, for a lot of money and to shut him up about the truth.  He couldn't live with himself so he rejected the offer, whereas Gary Mack took it all.  It's a cabal that keeps the truth out: the City of Dallas, the MSM, the U.S. government and their private mouthpieces such as DVP.

Thanks for the link to this film.

As a sad side note, it shocked me that he and his wife decided he would be a remote husband and father in Dallas, while they lived in PA.  I'm not sure what kind of man leaves his post to dedicate himself to his job, but that's just a personal observation.  I'd imagine his family would want to have had him around.

Thanks

Micah,  

Did the WC / do we today have access to the "legal hospital record" from Parkland for 11/22/1963?  Has anyone analyzed them?  It seems like they would contain the most informative, clearest view of the condition of JFK's wounds and what happened to him prior to entering the coffin.

Thanks for the great summary from Dr. Perry.

Rick

Excellent essay, Robert.  Appreciate your insights.

Thanks

Rick

A couple of days ago, Jeff Morley resurrected a ~2013 post on JFK Facts, available here.  It is excellently written and shows the linkage between the revolution in Cuba / the assassination of JFK and how they still impact the relationship between the U.S. and Cuba today.

It was fascinating to read how violent and deadly incidents directly damaged more recent attempts (1975 and 1996) at improving relations between our country and Cuba.  To me, these smacked of Operation Northwoods plans and resulted in continued animosity.  He also addresses a vital question: Who benefits from poor relations between the U.S. and Cuba?

Many thanks to Mr. Morley.

19 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I've believed for years Dr. Perry's repeated statement on the afternoon of 11/22/63 that the throat wound was an entrance wound.  Before Secret Service Agent Moore spoke with him and other doctors and nurses in early December.  After that he backed up, waffled and tap danced.  Maybe, I guess, it could have been an exit wound or words to this effect.  He was an experienced emergency room doctor in a hospital that received patients with gunshot wounds on a regular sometimes daily or multiple per day basis.  He had seen likely hundreds of entrance and exit wounds and knew the difference.  He said it was a small entry wound within a couple of hours after he had cut it open further to perform the tracheotomy.  And repeated this when questioned.  He still Never came back and said it Was an exit wound.

As to where is the exit...  I wish Bob Prudhome still posted here.  His posts were logical and reasonable based on his EMT and hunting experience.  I'm not an anatomy expert though I understood the basic concepts in Biology 101 and I used to hunt in my younger years.  I don't think there was an exit wound.  The subject has been discussed on the forum in depth in years passed before I joined but read it often, the subject of frangible bullets.  It's been speculated about in regards to the back, head and neck wound.  Somebody thought that's why there was no exit wound for the back entry wound if the throat wound was also an entry wound.  Somebody thought a right temple shot with one was responsible for the "star" disbursement of tiny metal particles going from front to back (more at the front fading to less/none at the back) in one of the xrays.

My point is if a bullet used on the throat was small caliber and frangible their likely wouldn't be an exit wound.  Small game frangible bullets are designed to, after penetrating the skin, basically explode on impact, disintegrate when they hit muscle or say a wind pipe.  Since the idiots in Bethesda either chose not to or were prevented from following standard autopsy procedure and dissecting both the throat and back wounds we'll likely never know for sure what happened to the bullet from the front throat entry wound.

I googled "small caliber frangible bullet".  I think this short article explains the concept better than I.

https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/frangible-varmint-bullets-big-game/

Ron,

The behavior of the bullets that struck JFK are, to me, a proof in themselves that there was more than one shooter.

If was are to believe the WC, LHO loaded two types of ammo in the $13 rifle, in the specific order he planned on striking JFK to cause the wounds he did: a FMJ penetrating round for the magic bullet, and a frangible round for the head.  The WC's description of the behavior of the magic bullet forces that conclusion, that it penetrated and kept on penetrating.  The x-ray evidence of the disbursement of metal particles force the conclusion of the frangible round.  Add to those two items the fact that the MC clip was only partially loaded with 4 rounds our of 6, and you have an unbelievable situation.  Who loads multiple types of round in a single clip?  Who partially loads a clip when intentionally assassinating a president?

Your idea of a frangible round in the throat makes sense if it was fired from the same position / firearm as the frontal right temple > back right head with disintegration from the south knoll (thanks to Sherry Feister).  

Thanks

11 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

There is some evidence that there was a bullet recovered e.g. the receipt for missile thing.  And the late Robert Morrow said that he knew one of the doctors at the morgue and he told him that there was a bullet taken out of Kennedy's back.

That is something that I thin kid explainable.

But the no exit for the throat wound is a real puzzler to me.

Unless, like the back wound bullet, it lacked sufficient ballistics to penetrate?  Also, some of the velocity would have been reduced by passing through the windshield.

17 hours ago, Richard Price said:

Joe, I'm certainly no expert on it, but I believe the only necessary people are the administrator of the oath, the person being sworn and probably two witnesses.  This is one thing that makes me believe at least part of D. Lifton's scenario.  They had to have her away from the body in order to move it.  There is absolutely no other reason to have her there.

👍

2 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

It's an indication of something. It looks to me like he freezes at that moment, as if he's been hit with something that partially paralyzed him. His hands never get to his throat. I'm one of those that think he was hit in the throat from in front first. 

Paul,

Please consider this: if he was first shot in the throat, how could he say "My God, I've been hit"?  This is why I believe the shallow, low trajectory back wound was hit #1 possibly from the Dal-Tex building (not necessarily shot #1) which may have partially paralyzed him as you say.  I think hit #2 was the frontal throat shot through the windshield, probably from the south knoll.  

Jim,

I might ask the same question on the location of the shallow back wound - where did that round end up?  Didn't a Parkland ER nurse pick up an intact round off the floor?

Thanks

On 7/22/2018 at 2:27 PM, Joe Bauer said:

You also see Albert Thomas ( who is pictured in another photo of this event ) giving LBJ that perversely incongruous sick grinning wink, and thumbs up gesture after LBJ's swearing in.

Like you would give a hometown football player hero who just scored a game winning touchdown. This upbeat, celebratory Thomas action is so out of place in this incredibly somber and sad scene it chills you.

And in this photo you also see an absolutely horrifically traumatized Jackie.

That is the most outrageously sickening and disgusting element of this Air Force 1 swearing in picture.

To drag someone in Jackie's unbelievably traumatized state just an hour or two after she witnessed her husband's head explode inches from her face into that crowded cabin...for what...a politically expedient for LBJ photo-op?

 

Joe,

That picture has always stuck in my craw as one more piece of evidence that the murder of JFK was not the random act of one nut. 

Why else would the victory wink be given?  And LBJ SMILING at him? Why else would the victory signal in Morse code be sent over the DPD radio channel?  How does this square with the fake humility in LBJ's speech on the Andrews AFB tarmac where he has to add - as if he forgot to check that box - "and God's" when he asked for the peoples' help?  He could not WAIT to get into office, his one goal in entering politics in the first place.  It pays to remember what he told Madeleine Brown the night before at the Murchison party: 

Thanks

Rick

48 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

What a great and impartial 3 man team we were coincidentally blessed with to immediately take over after JFK was murdered and to create and control the assassination investigative effort.

LBJ, J.Edgar Hoover and Allen Welsh Dulles.

All 3 extreme JFK/RFK haters and all 3 on the career and power ending ropes if JFK remains in office.

 

Those are such strong motives for the entire crime/coverup, much stronger and more likely than a lone nut who has a grudge against Kennedy.  When combined with the witness testimony apart from the FBI (i.e. Mark Lane's early interviews, David Lifton's interviews, etc.), altered evidence, altered testimony by the FBI in the WR, and intense MSM / government blind support of the Warren Report, their culpability (along with the ones further down the food chain) is solidified.  Much more than the WC conclusions.

Thanks

58 minutes ago, Douglas Caddy said:

Billie sol in his autobiography "Billie Sol Estes: A Texas Legend," wrote that he believed that the deaths of Mac Wallace, Cliff Carter (LBJ's White House aide)  and John Cofer (LBJ's and Estes' longtime attorney) were not natural. Apparently each of them knew too much about LBJ's criminal activities and LBJ's secret financial empire. Wallace died when his car suddenly veered of the road and hit an abutment, the same way that legendary U.S. Marshal Clint Peoples died. Both "accidents" occurred in Texas.

Not to mention Lee Bowers.

4 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

 

And with JFK and RFK remaining in control and LBJ probably knowing that JFK and RFK might not have stopped federal investigations into LBJ's corrupt doings, it's deductively reasonable to look at LBJ's career ruination and jail time fears as being serious enough to qualify as a legitimately considered motive in his possible involvement than has been generally acknowledged.  IMO.

 

 

Joe,

I too appreciate your posts and comments here on this forum.  

I'd say that the other right along with the potential prosecution of LBJ for his crimes was the inevitability of Hoover being retired after JFK was elected.  This gave Hoover the motive for ignoring all the threats to JFK beforehand, and manipulating the facts/testimony/evidence after the murder.  If one is complicit, they both are.

Powerful men in positions of power, when threatened with losing that power, will perform drastic measures to keep their power.  I put the CIA in that boat as well since JFK was actively working to dismantle their power base across the world in his effort to "splinter it into a thousand pieces and scatter them to the wind."

Thanks

22 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

 

There were two tell tale signs of a crossfire.  First, the phony persons planted there as SS agents.  Which is why I asked about the man at the 3:04 mark and only Rick picked up on that.  There should have been no SS agents there.  And, Larry Hancock, among others, has found sources that explain how those credentials got there.

 

Jim,

I found the testimony I was looking for regarding the main in the suit over at http://www.jfklancer.com/ManWho.html

"Malcolm Summers ran to the knoll moments after the shooting. He related the following in the 1988 documentary "Who Murdered JFK?":

"I ran across the--Elm Street to right there toward the knoll. It was there [pointing to a spot on the knoll]--and we were stopped by a man in a suit and he had an overcoat--over his arm and he, he, I saw a gun under that overcoat. And he--his comment was, "Don't you all come up here any further, you could get shot, or killed," one of those words. A few months later, they told me they didn't have an FBI man in that area. If they didn't have anybody, it's a good question who it was. " (Anderson 14)"

I bet that guy at 3:04 was the man Summers encountered.  I wonder if someone could get a picture of that guy's face and run it through some kind of facial recognition software?

Thanks

11 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

"The car stopped."

She was right there, just feet away.

Can anyone adequately dispute her observation in an honest and logical way?

Especially if they weren't there themselves?

Flesh and blood everywhere. Sprayed in the air and onto the car and even others several feet behind the limo?

What a horrific scene in front of hundreds in broad daylight.

I'll bet that the majority of those present on Elm street that day had post traumatic symptoms afterwards.  Such as the occasional bad dream or spontaneous flashback accompanied with an upset feeling of shock, dread, depression and sadness. 

What a brutal public way to murder anyone, let alone our sitting president.

Whoever murdered JFK ( ordered this ) and in this manner were pure unevolved brutes of our darker Neanderthal genetic past.

Joe,

I might say that whoever ordered, carried out and covered up JFK's murder seriously wanted to / needed to change the direction he was taking the country.  Out of Vietnam.  Out of the Cold War.  Out of the Federal Reserve.  Out of the oil depletion allowance.  Out of the MIC.  Those were some huge, powerful forces with all the resources they needed to get rid of the stone in their shoe: JFK.  With happy compliance and assistance from the Mafia, whose stone was RFK.  

Thanks

1 hour ago, François Carlier said:

Mister DiEugenio,
Hello.
(I have yet to answer your message on the other thread, I'm late, I know, I'll do it soon).
OK, please, let us not argue over semantics. I have studied the case for more than 28 years and have been to Dallas several times. Trust me, I have seen the pictures of Dealey Plaza…
I stand by what I previously wrote : it is not true to say that (I quote) "The extant videos also show, quite clearly, that everyone ran to the grassy knoll in search of the assassin(s) immediately after the shooting."
Let's go back to the picture that you used in your post, with the Len Osanic's video from his 50-years series.
First of all, NO, it wasn't immediately after the shooting. The whole motorcade had already gone.
Now, look at what I have highlighted :
In red are the women, most of them with their skirts and purses. I hope you don't really want to keep claiming that they wanted to catch the shooter ? Or maybe you think that they were all students of Bruce Lee, who taught them Jeet kune do ?
In yellow are people whom I clearly state are NOT running. Some of them are talking and not even moving.
In blue is one person running. One person ! Hardly "everybody".... And she is not even on the grassy Knoll !
So, again, the sentence : "everyone ran to the grassy knoll in search of the assassin(s) immediately after the shooting." is, at the very, very least, partially wrong !

As for the Len Osanic video, with comments by Robert Groden, they mostly show people in the central area of Dealey Plaza, not the grassy Knoll.

Then again, even if EVERYBODY had indeed RUSHED to the grassy Knoll at once, what would that prove ? At most, it would prove that they had heard noise (or shots) coming from there because of the echo. So what ? They went there and found nothing. And that's what is important. That they found nothing. But you always conveniently forget to remind us that.

The people who went to the grassy Knoll found nobody and nothing. The people who went to the sixth floor found the shells and the rifle and the shooter's prints. 
I suggest that you take that into account !

Now, it is true that I -- and I speak only for myself -- haven't studied the recently declassified records. But, come on : as if they held the key to the mystery… The facts can't be changed and we already know them perfectly well. I mean, you don't really hope to find a long-hidden, recently-declassified record that will show that Lee Oswald wasn't in Dallas that day, do you ?

Again, I can see that you are nitpicking, all the while loosing sight of the bigger picture. That's your donwfall !

 

FC: would you at least admit there are many more people approaching the GN after the shooting than are approaching the TSBD?

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

BTW, in the film I posted above, take a look at the image at the 3:04 mark.

 

Does anyone know who the guy walking from R to L with the coat over his arm is?  

Good question, Jim.  I recall one witness saying they encountered a man in a quit with a coat over his arm with a shotgun (or other firearm) clearly visible.  I don't remember who it was though.  Maybe they encountered the guy you pointed out at 3:04?

Thanks

15 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Hey, look, folks, it's an artist's sketch published in the Boston Globe, so it must be accurate!  That pretty much nails it.

The Parkland ER photos showing the entry wounds in JFK's throat and right forehead must have been fakes...👺

 

Where can one view these "Parkland ER photos"?

Thanks

Excellent summation by Mr. Speer and Mr. DiEugenio.  I appreciate their thoroughness and reason.

One aspect in my mind of the impossibility of the SBT that is overlooked sometimes is what was said in the car.  JFK said "My God, I'm hit!" (I think according to Kellerman) after the shallow back wound. How could he say anything at all if this shot ripped through his neck and caused all the damage attributed to it?

Another is the fact of the "through and through" bullet hole in the windshield that entered JFK's throat (according to Dr. Perry that day) - in addition to the glass shards in his face that leaked embalming fluid.  

Finally, Governor Connally doesn't react to being shot at the same time JFK does.

These seem to be reasonable factors in disproving the SBT.

Thanks

Rick

21 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/12/ce903-part-3.html

From your link: "That "bunching up" of the jacket could very well be the answer as to why the chalk mark is located below the level of Specter's pointer. If we bunch up the jacket a little bit (like JFK's coat was bunched, per the Croft photo), it's a perfect alignment.".

If Specter wanted to recreate it, he should have had the JFK stand-in bunch up his jacket and line that pointer up with the mark on the back instead of arbitrarily moving the pointer up to where it conveniently lines up with where he wanted it to point to Connally.  

I guess I don't see 2" of "bunching" jacket in this picture whereas you do.  It looks to me that his coat is sitting on him just like Connally's, like a custom-made Brooks Brother's suit coat should sit.  So your answer to my question is a "bunching up" of his jacket, thanks for replying.

Rick